It remains to be seen how Korea plans to overcome its branding hurdles. Suffice it to say, I don’t think alot of people are all too upset that the current slogan, “Korea, Sparkling”, may soon be scrapped. Says Euh Yoon-dae, Presidential Council chairman on National Branding:
The vast majority of experts expressed consistently negative views about the slogan. They said it sounded like a brand name for carbonated or sparkling water, not a catchy tourism slogan.
No argument there. In my opinion, Korea needs to stick to one campaign and run with it rather than changing it all the time to keep it “fresh”. All this will end up doing is confusing visitors.
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What about thinking about it. Then they could taking the time to research and survey the target market which are tourists. Then find something that will appeal to the target market.
Instead, they seem to always patch together some silly slogan which has no significance to anyone except the Korean male in charge. And that guy usually has no clue about marketing Korea to potential tourists.
Since that would require actually listening to foreigners it might be a challenge.
While they’re about it they could also consider ditching that horrendous-looking “Haechi” creature…..frightening enough to make most tourists wake up sweating and screaming in the middle of the night.
Hasn’t Metro Michael sorted this all out yet?
C’mon chum, chop chop.
Hmmm….perhaps “Korea chop chop”. Evokes hyperactive balli balli and senseless mayhem.
Or “Korea, no silly slogans. Just silly people.”
But if silly it must have, then maybe Korea can appropriate “Be The Reds”.
I like the slogans Euh proposes in the Korea Herald artilce
(http://www.koreaherald.co.kr/N.....160044.asp)
and
So, are we promoting Korea as a country of supernerds or a county that owes its success to devine intervention? Nobody wants to be friends with a bunch of supernerds and nobody wants to do business with a country that just got lucky. I think it’s time to go back to the drawing board.
It’s really less a question of being ‘dynamic’ and more a necessity of being ‘distinguishable’ from Korea’s neighboring counterparts. As a tourist, are you really going to fly halfway around the world to see IT progress? Sorry, but I really think it’s a fallacy to try and promote Korea from an IT vantage point. Of all this country’s historic charm, culinary offerings, beautiful architecture… I don’t understand how the ‘powers that be’ of branding seem to be at a loss at how best to promote Korea.
ExpatJane
One heartening recent thing, along the lines of Koreans listening, was the complete recall and rebuild of that horrible “widget” that the KTO had created. It is still a pretty weird animation
but now, at least, the foreigner is not an idiot, and Korea is not presented as a threat.
You can see the widget and my brief comments on the change (including a link to a discussion of the original monstrosity) over here at morningcalm.
What changes were made seem in direct response to the blogosphere reaction to the original.
They have to return to main use of the “Dynamic Korea” that my committee came up with. It’s the only term that captures what’s special about Korea in BOTH the cultural/spirit/motif way and the techno/export/growth way. And Expat Jane is wrong, we considered many hundreds of submissions/opinions from all different kinds of people, and carefully winnowed them down, and the final result was judged by a mix of men/women, international/Korean.
That it became followed by “the Hub of Asia” is not my fault; that can be laid at the door of a certain powerful expat business-lawyer, and who listens to me when he’s around? My own “Dynamic Korea: Asia’s Heart, Asian Hub” was better, i still think — has that yang-eum-yang thing goin’-on — (we *were* mandated from the top to get “Hub” in there, at the time) i still think they should settle on that or something very similar…
“Sparkling” was an expensive & arrogant mistake from the beginning, and has gotta go!
I don’t think no slogans will satisfy anyone. There will always something wrong with slogans. Why not just not use any slogans? That way we don’t have to listen to expats joking about it when they describe Korea, for the ten thousandth times.
I disagree. Korea’s best source of potential tourists is Asia, so it ought not focus on the food and architecture and the charm because it often pales in comparison, except for the Philippines.
And have you ever seen an Indian at the airport? Boxes and boxes of stuff he bought. Boom box. TV. Sink. Laundry detergent.
Chinese and Indians get all hot and wet about development and IT and geeky stuff.
Perhaps two approaches will work best. The “Miraculous Korea” campaign to run in Asia and another for the Western foreigner. Korea – wanna buy a baby?
“Korea: Land of the Morning Calm … and the Afternoon Clusterfuck”
“I don’t think no slogans will satisfy anyone.”
I’m perfectly satisfied with no slogans.
Slogans aren’t going to make Korea a more popular tourist destination and the government is just wasting money as usual. A brand is simply a “name, term, sign, symbol or design, or a combination of them intended to identify the goods and services of one seller or group of sellers and to differentiate them from those of other sellers.” A good marketing campaign will not make a lousy product perform. Attaching lasting brand recognition to a substandard product will kill it. Sanshinseon님, If I were you, I wouldn’t take credit for the branding activities. It’s a no win situation. Brag about how you helped improve the product. People I know from back home are fairly uninterested in visiting Korea, especially the ones who’ve been here before.
Sperwer said
That’s my favorite!
Oh, and I liked someone’s, from a long time ago:
“Korea: The Land of Not-Quite Right”
“Slogans? We don’t need no steenkin’ slogans.”
Although I’m with Sanshinseon in that if you have to have one, Dynamic Korea is less bad than the rest.
“Korea: Land of the Morning Calm … and the Afternoon Clusterfuck”
I love it!
Here’s mine: Korea! Come Drown Your Sorrows With Us!
(– doubly appropriate in this year’s monsoony monsoon season)
By the way, what is this supposed to mean? “Korea’s best source of potential tourists is Asia, so it ought not focus on the food and architecture and the charm because it often pales in comparison, except for the Philippines.” The Islands rock. You’d really rather be here?
And finally: what kind of hangeul results in the name Euh? The woman’s family-name is 으?
#13: My boss in the U.S. came up with “Korea: The Land of Almost Right” in 1995 after a few years of experience dealing with a certain aerospace company in Kimhae.
Bunch of stupid foreigners!
#17
That’s a great slogan for the expat community.
The only slogan that I can think of that might be better than “Land of the Morning Calm” is “Land of Hot Booty.” Imagine the promotional video you could with that as a slogan.
Land of the evening Bally Bally
What the Korean authorities totally fail to comprehend is that they are wasting millions of dollars on pointless “Korea Branding” exercises, frantically seeking some positive image, magical phrase, etc. to persuade people that Korea is a great place to visit and do business.
They cannot grasp the fact that a country’s brand image is largely determined by people’s lasting NEGATIVE perceptions or images that stick in their minds about a particular country, rather than any atempts to give them a fleeting feel good positive image through glitzy adverts on CNN or other fleetingly temporary campaigns..
So, what are these images? Rabid parliamentarians trying to kill each other and batter down doors and holding sit -in occupations of the National Assembly; eating of dogs (after torturing and skinning them alive) for the sake of stimulating mens’ lack of sexual prowess in summer; violent and uncontrollable rioters protesting over anti-American issues; spitting in public; riding motorcycles on sidewalks, and other acts of disrespect for the law.
What can be done? Rather spend those millions of dollars instead on educating the country’s citizens on an ONGOING basis through intensive TV, billboard etc. advertising campaigns to shame those lawmakers and other people behaving like medieval peasants into changing their ways permanently. When the outside world begins to see Korea in a new light as these manifestations of uncivilized and undemocratic behavior subside….only then will Korea’s “brand image” improve and only then will lavish overseas advertising and rebranding campaigns start to be justified.
Land of a Thousand Contradictions
Land of a Thousand Failed Slogans
Korea: more than just friggin kimchi!
Korea: the Forgotten Place in Asia
The Land that used to have a Morning Calm.
21:
I’m guessing you never saw the KOBACO ads they’ve been playing on TV for a while now:
http://thegrandnarrative.wordp.....ing-korea/
Corea, Crazy.
Re: 21
Whoa. Someone has been dipping into the 홍삼. I wouldn’t have been able to be so graphic but you hit the nail on the head.
I’d add: Start adhering to the codes and regulations. It does great things for Singapore (hot tourist destination with only a fraction of the cultural or natural history found in Korea). It’s a crime that “The Bulldozer” is the president and yet Korean construction firms continue to abuse the public with zero communication about upcoming construction activities (you just go outside one day and find the entire street ripped up and have to figure out where your bus has been rerouted), shoddy site safety and project management (big gaping holes in the sidewalks, etc.), broken stairs, no handrails, missing street lights, ridiculously dangerous bike lanes, trip hazards galore, etc. etc. Most of the construction is repeat work anyway because they can’t do anything right the first time. And those stupid brick sidewalks are nothing but a program to employ unskilled workers that put the public at risk because they start disintegrating as soon as they’re installed. People who visit Korea see this and know it’s just the tip of the iceberg. That’s what “dynamic” is all about… moving quickly without thinking. All action and no plan, that’s Dynamic Korea. Great slogan and it works.
60 some percent of Koreans.
Wormed.
Eating raw fish, using waterless toilets.
I didn’t eat too much raw fish in Korea. I only started touching it in California to be exact.
I did use a hole in the ground full of flies to shit. It never made sense to me that they somehow could not connect a water pipe here and they actually valued the gas generated from shit.
well, that was 1986 to 1991.
@12
Korea has many good things to offer, especially in areas like culture, food, art and night life. A brand centered on this could do a great deal for promoting the country. Korea just has to settle on something that makes it interesting and differentiates it from its neighbors in the minds of potential tourists.
As for the power of a brand – Take a standard leather purse. Print a fancy sounding brand name all over it. Market it as being exclusive and expensive. Sell it for $500+.
YES! Let me pitch this campaign my boyfriend and I have been working on for years. (We work in the industry so if the Tourism Board is up for it we can make it happen.)
Keeping it REAL Korea!
Format: 3 Ads , 30 seconds each appealing to three different demographics.
Set Scene:
1. Location: Paris
Mood: Quiet romantic evening
Couple in frame backdrop is Eiffel Tower.
2. Location: New York,
Mood: Frantic -time is money.
Wallstreet types in Manhattan rush hour.
3. London
Culturally sophisticated or Hipsters in London Soho.
Suddenly a dramatic swooping sound effect is heard.
Ajjoshi/Ajuma cuts in the scene out of nowhere all Tae kwon do style.
Close-up of all actors.
(Ajoshi/Ajuma Shouts) YOU. GO. KOREA. NOW!
Loud Music is now used: Frenetic K-Pop or even better amateur Norebang singers.
End scene with a montage/fast pace transitions of typical Korean moments.
Soju night, Crazy traffic manouvers, People shopping in Dongdaemun, That day in Hyundai beach everyone decides to go. You know, the real deal, the stuff that Koreans might cringe about but ultimately it is such a unique experience and its the reason I fell in love in the place. I don’t live there anymore so now so I can look back at that with perspective and realise it was so much fun!
this is the perennial problem in manufacturing. most companies will latch onto lean, six sigma, toyota way, toyota production system, total quality management, etc. problem is, it’s latched onto for a short while and then changed as soon as senior management feels the need to prove that they have a better methodology. at the end of the day, employees on the line and management lose commitment to one standardized way of operating.
why this happens is a great question. i’d say it’s more likely in the realm of cultural anthropology than management. of course, if it is a cultural korean attribute to continuously change while remaining relatively unattached to one methodology it raises an important question when contrasted with a western or japanese focus on follow-through: why are you trying to impose your cultural values onto the good people of korea?
changing campaigns to keep them “fresh” may go to the root of what it means to be korean. confusing foreigners certainly does.
South Korea has to preserve the Kim dynasty structures in North Korea for tourism.
It will be the 2nd Kyongjoo, another Kim clan city tourist bait.
My new slogans.
1/ Korea, next to Japan.
2/ Korea and the Kims.
3/ Korea, Fighting !
4/ Korea, next to China.
5/ Korea, Kimchi !
6/ Korea, sexy !
7/ Korea, nuclear.
8/ Annyoung, Korea !
9/ Eat Kalbi at Korea ! (the poor fools will come and find that it’s too expensive)
10/ Nobody but you, Korea !
Re: “Korea has many good things to offer, especially in areas like culture, food, art and night life. A brand centered on this could do a great deal for promoting the country.”
Duh! Name a country that doesn’t have these things? Even our stunted brothers on the other side of the DMZ have some of that. What’s special about Korean night life that’s going to attract people here instead of Thailand or Tokyo? ‘Cmon, lay it on me.
The streets are all tore up and covered in phlem (help me Sonagi!), just like Korea, and their human rights record is even worse than the US, but tourists still prefer visiting Beijing to Seoul. Does it sound unfair to compare Seoul to Beijing in terms of cultural relevance, cuisine, etc.? It should because it’s like major versus minor league. You can get all the Korean food you want in Beijing. Or Tibetan, or German or Taiwanese, or whatever. Korea is the hermit kingdom and should consider marketing itself as such.
Re: ” Take a standard leather purse. Print a fancy sounding brand name all over it. Market it as being exclusive and expensive. Sell it for $500+”
Obviously you are dude and have no experience in the fashion industry. Women aren’t going to spend $500 on “standard”. You have to make it sparkle somehow, honey.
@wjk
1. You always have an awkward friend in Korea
2. Love Korea for what it isn’t
3. Korea is trying harder (even if it isn’t trying smarter)
4. Even Kermit is a hermit in Korea
versus Thailand. Less AIDS. No military coup anytime soon. Not always hot.
versus China. Air is cleaner.
versus Tokyo. A bit cheaper.
Night life wise, forget about it in the Middle East.
Sub Saharan Africa, get ready to be get jacked by AK-47’s.
Museums, performing arts, air conditioned facilities?
Possible abductions and murder if you were in Yemen.
Not every country is safe to walk around after dusk.
World Health Organization claims China is has an AIDS, tuberculosis, and Hepatitis B epidemic that is ignored by the government. You can dodge two of these by not banging local Chinese hoes. You’ll probably be exposed to tuberculosis, since you must breathe.
where can you get bombed to pieces simply because you were of a foreign race in a local night club?
Bali, Indonesia.
Don’t go there any more. Simple as that.
Jane said:
Bingo! You got that right.
Korea: Your Gateway to Dokdo
Korea: Cockblocking Capital of the World
@WJK
You must have missed the passing grade given to Indonesia by Sidney Jones of the International Crisis Group. Never you mind, the Densus 88 boys have the problem under control now. But at any rate, ask yourself why the place still attracts more tourists than Kimchistan, all the dangers aside? Methinks a slogan is in order,
Korea, just like Bali, but without the culture, beaches, nightlife, scenery, good weather, smiling locals, lack of cock-blocking, and terrorist threats!
Oops, mad lack of HTML Skillz!
I agree with a lot of the points made here. Most notably the fact that Korea is not an attractive place to visit for tourists because the infrastructure still has hurdles to overcome. Prime example, the new ticket machines in the subway, the English option is about as much use to a non-Korean speaker as the Korean option, for a country that wishes to attract global tourists they need to sort these basics out before trying to move on. Motorbikes on the sidewalks, wheelchair accessability, all of these things add up to a place that is focusing their effort (and money) on a slogan that means nothing to anyone (as correctly pointed out) except the person that approved it.
#21 – Apologies for tooting my own horn, but see the link below for a recent commercial by KOBACO that sounds like what you had in mind:
http://thegrandnarrative.wordp.....ing-korea/
Not by coincidence, it briefly features Mahbub Alam, co-star of the movie Bandhobi (반두비), and which also aims to challenge Koreans’ stereotypes and prejudices about workers and immigrants from developing countries in particular. As far as I know, it’s still playing at cinemas.
Re: 39 Clarification on “because the infrastructure still has hurdles to overcome”.
Korea has infrastructure but what it doesn’t have is management. They have nice new ticket machines. It’s just that these machines are a piece of shit because the people who spec’d and purchased them don’t speak English and are trained not to talk to each other let alone foreigners (unless their drunk). They spend trillions on infrastructure. But it’s poorly designed and without consideration of the end users. The exception to this is Incheon Airport. Whoever designed that should become the next president… oh wait. Too bad, he’s a Brit.
Re:40
Good points. I see what you mean. It reminds me of my phone, it has a touch screen, it has phone functions, and it all looks nice, but when you scratch the surface of the features none of it has any common sense applied to it.
How many hiking trails are there in Korea? How many temples are there? I think these are the things that Korean promotional videos should to be stressing for Western tourists, instead of hotels, casinos, expensive restaurants, loud discos, and a fast-paced lifestyle. Koreans and Chinese may like the dynamic and sparking Korean themes, but other foreigners do not seem to.
I think to Western audiences Korea should be promoting its “Land of the Morning Calm” theme. The problem with choosing one theme to represent your country is that one theme cannot appeal to everyone. What appeals to Chinese tourists may not appeal to Western tourists. Therefore, Korea needs to develop different themes for the different markets.
“Korea, it’s all you want to be”
we’ve heard it before: Korea has 4 seasons… with loads of things to do ! ski in winter, hiking in spring / autumn, and decent beaches for the summer (yes, there are less crowded beaches than the one in Busan if you do a LITTLE effort).
you can do temple stays, and also party like crazy in Hongdae or Apgujeong.
you can do decent shopping and have a few nice museums around as well…
all that in a pretty safe / comfortable environment compared to other destinations…
maybe underlining the variety of options would be a good idea… I think it’s already done in a few TV spots.
I believe there would be nothing wrong in choosing a pretty “generic” slogan, but focusing more on the “tourist experience”, making the country more tourist friendly.
I imagine a lot of tourists come here on package tours where all is already planned, so that’s quite convenient, but for the independent traveler it’s still a bit complicated to work out even basic things: buses or trains outside of Seoul, even simple itineraries… the JNTO a few years ago designed “tourist guides” on a lot of destinations in Japan (accessible on their website), complete with phone numbers of hotels, bus information, etc… very useful.
anyway, I think overall Korea is making a lot of efforts to develop in this direction, even if it’s not perfect yet, it has already gone a long way, and I’m sure it will get better very fast.
From the article:
I like how expert opinion is being surveyed long after the campaign was implimented. In fact, initial reaction to the campaign was no different. I agree that ceaseless changing of slogans without meaningful connection to their audience is a waste of effort and public money. Better to choose something which attracts their target market. But who are they – tourists, investors, emmigrants? They’re different, and will consider the so-called brand value of Korea in different ways. Until they figure that out, they’re just pissing up a rope.
Of course, if they really want to go with something else, but don’t want to go through the fuss of actually considering who they’re trying to communicate their idea to, I’m putting this one out for free: ‘Korea: The Hub of Empty Sloganeering’.
@wjk
5: Land of the fast and the furious
6: Who moved my kimchi?
7: Lightening tomorrow 내일을 밝히다
8: The fragrance of happy culture combined with cutting edge city 첨단도시와 결합하는 행복한 문화의 향기
Right — we only started this 21 years ago, and some progress has been made — two steps forward for every one misstep back, and Yes there are many things that should’ve been done better. And public order / official attitude could use vast improvement — but those things have proven very difficult to mandate. Takes generational-turnover…
Point-of-order:
> WeikuBoy
> what kind of hangeul results in the name Euh? The woman’s family-name is 으?
It’s a man, and his family name is o-l. Not very common, but not the rarest. Hell of a name to be stuck with trying to Romanize… i’ve seen “Uh”, “Euh” and “Eoh”…
Gerry is quite correct in #42 — and that’s what i try to do — but the rub is, the Chinese and Jp tourist-groups are so easy to please and lucrative, there’s little incentive to do the hard work of attracting / serving independent Westerners… so they talk about that but not much actually happens, little attention gets paid to getting the English right, etc.
my “right” was in respose to #43.
“Korea: Land of the Morning Calm. Cuz we’re still dealing with the hangover”
(1) No military coup, but plenty of citizens trying to march on the Blue House, violently and otherwise.
(2) In Seoul, not by much.
(3) These days, not by much.
CMM @36: LAWLZ!!!
(3) No military coup, but plenty of citizens trying to march on the Blue House, violently and otherwise.
(2) In Seoul, not by much.
(3) These days, not by much.
CMM @36: LAWLZ!!!
Damn numbering!
Damn dysfunctional mouse button!
Stevie Bee put together some good ones, including:
* * *
Korea – The Best Country in the World by a Significant Margin
Korea – Middle Earth Food and Third World Manners
Korea – The Most Traditional Country Ever
Korea – Where Westerners Come to Be Glowered at by Nasty Old Cunts on the Subway
Korea – Don’t Like Our Traditions? No Problem! We’ll Invent Some More!
Korea – Fuck, You Should Have Seen the Place When We Had The Olympics!
Korea – Just Like Japan, But Short One Chromosome
Korea – Welcome! …When Did You Say You Were Leaving?
Korea – That Smell on the Subway Is Rarefied Deliciousness
Korea – the Country That Inspired Vivaldi to Write ‘The Four Seasons’
Korea – A Division of Samsung Inc.
Korea – Come Make Your Well-Delineated Individual Desires Hostage to Our Nebulous Groupthink!
Korea – Official World Leader in Spurious World Leadership Claims
Korea – Middle Child Syndrome on a National Scale
Korea – Home to the Kimchigasm
Korea – A Time Capsule For The Kind of Things That Would Never Be Considered Worth Putting in a Time Capsule
Korea – Vivid, Vivacious, Fresh, Fun, and Really Really Sizzling
Korea – We’ll Ruin Your Holiday and Blame the US
* * *
A bit odd that the Wikipedia article doesn’t even mention that Incheon Airport even had an architect, let alone that he was British. Maybe it is just some kind of kimchee condensate or other natural Korean phenomenon.
#16…Sorry Wedge but when I arrived here in 1989 as a young E-3 Korea was already being referred to as “Land of Not Quite Right”, “Land of Almost Right”, “Land of the Morning Clam” and “Land of the Bucket Heads” by nearly everyone stationed at Yongsan.
And yes….its clam not calm. Itaewon was pretty fun back in those days.
“because the infrastructure still has hurdles to overcome”.
Tinkering around the edges. We all know the real problem is the people.
Big disagreement with Darth Babaganoosh — Seoul’s air is MUCH better than Chinese cities… so much. Have you ever been to a Chinese city??
And Seoul prices are still half the prices of Tokyo, except maybe the top-class hotel rooms.
“The exception to this is Incheon Airport. Whoever designed that should become the next president… oh wait. Too bad, he’s a Brit.”
Fentress Bradburn are British? Since when exactly?
Seoul prices are HALF of Tokyo prices? When was the last time you were in Tokyo? I go 3-4 times a year. The difference between Seoul and Toyko pricing has narrowed A LOT in the last couple years (not counting subways and trains). Housing is near parity by now, for instance.
“And Seoul prices are still half the prices of Tokyo, except maybe the top-class hotel rooms.”
Except that Seoul is not Tokyo. And if this is true, which is doubtful, I guess you get what you pay for.
As of 2007, the top ten most expensive cities were ranked thus:
1. Moscow
2. London
3. Seoul
4. Tokyo
5. Hong Kong
6. Copenhagen
7. Geneva
8. Osaka
9. Zurich
10. Oslo
What was that? Did somebody say something?
Despite Korea’s many failings, and there are many, as others have pointed out, some of us find Korea an extremely interesting place to live. When I first arrived 17 years ago, I wasn’t too hot on the place, and only started in earnest with the language after a year, because I was sure that I’d move on. Korea can’t win on convenience, or natural beauty, or politeness. Yet, this place is unique and different, partly because of its hermit past.
So, my proposal is:
Korea – It’s Different
Japan, on the other hand, is pretty convenient to get around and I found people to be pretty polite, outside of the big cities like Osaka or Tokyo. But, sometimes it feels like Disney Land after living in Korea. And, I found them much harder to read than Koreans. Also, maybe this is just my impression, but Japanese seem ready to be heavy into emotional supression, and quite willing to sacrifice human feelings to keep a rule. In Korea – “look at my situation” can be annoying, but at least people are a bit more forgiving of human frailty, and seem willing to apply rules to meet human needs.
Re: 57
Oh, you caught me fibbing. So I quickly updated Wikipedia… please link quickly before someone changes it back to saying Terry is Korean.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T.....architect)
Re: 46
“but the rub is, the Chinese and Jp tourist-groups are so easy to please and lucrative, there’s little incentive to do the hard work of attracting / serving independent Westerners… so they talk about that but not much actually happens, little attention gets paid to getting the English right, etc.”
What a faker. Most Japanese (or Chinese for that matter) don’t know how to read Korean. They’re way more likely to read English, just like every other tourist in the world.
Dokdoforever:”So, my proposal is:
Korea – It’s Different”
Now you’re onto something. Get honest. I would go for something like “off the beaten path.” I really admited “Malasia – truely Asia” brilliant!
I believe an ad for Korea should appeal to the senses and be vibrant.
Korea is if anything uncompromising. Koreans really don’t give a shit about pleasing foreigners and are content to lie to themselves about how appealing foreigners find the country to assauge their own egos. They’d rather tell you to your face that you and all foreigners love Korea rather than really obtain valid input.
I used to frequent remote mountain temples that are quite and historical without being touristy, restaraunts that are different and only for the daring or those who really know fresh seafood, etc. Korean foods, culture, way of life, thinking is all truly off the beaten path. The real experience of Korea is for the truly adventuresome tourist who wants to confront cultural differences.
“Dynamic” never worked because Korea is certainly not dynamic. Nor is it sparkling. A case could be made for vibrant and different. Koreans are approachable and play hard. Promotion videos might portray the active, vibrant experiences of outdoor markets, the temples, eating, drinking and karaoke, as well as fine dining. Make it an experience for the senses.
Korea – a feast for the senses.
The Republic of Korea: A Push In The Right Direction … For Life
@dokdo
You’ve lived in Korea for 17 years? Wow…fuck I was born in Korea but damn, I’m impressed…
I’m one of those “over the hill” types well past my twenties. I now work in the States, but I come back each summer.
I’m curious. What part of the states, dokdo? Your profile sounds vaguely familiar.
t_song, there are many who lived for decades in Korea, including yours truely. Tom Coyner posts here, and he’s in that category. Gerry appears to be in that category, too. You’d be surprised how many have given so much of themselves to the country for so long, only to be inaccurately stereotyped as “the Expat” by NK. Korea is a country that, for anyone to live there long-term, requires that a person give a great deal of himself.
Short term visitors come and go, and expats should not be lumped with them. In my view, it takes at least 5 years before anyone can really lay claim to the title of expat, vs. visitor, and after 10 years, the person is a resident, and any discrimination or distinction by nationality is no longer necessary. Unfortunately, after that point, people often get disparaged as the discrimination is so endemic.
The Nationalistic Xenophobic Republic of Korea – where white boys, too, can be a whiny, oppressed minority and losers mysteriously transform into…Charisma Man!
@dokdo
you must be a teacher if you can go back during the summer. i’m assuming you must have some touchstone to korea to go back every year, i’m guessing a wife who is korean. alas, i’d wonder if you’ve ever felt like you’ve shed the “foreigner” mentality. for every family member who understands you, there’s someone who doesn’t and assumes you’re just another random english teacher.
given your time there, i think you must be able to relate to a lot of korean-americans well, in that you know what it’s like to be considered a quote, end quote foreigner in a country you feel is your own.
i would imagine you must feel that you’re of a different “group” than the E-2 holders there for a year of fun. still, i wonder if you bond well with your fellow americans or canadians (don’t know what your nationality is) or if you sort of pretend they don’t exist! what’s nice about the korean diaspora is that gyopos, in my experience, mostly all get along, whether we’re from germany or australia or the u.s.
so, in a roundabout way, i guess i’m asking: to what extent did you adopt korea and to what extent, after all those years, did you feel you became an honorary korean (not among your friends or family, but from society at large)?
sorry to probe–i’m just curious.
Korea will never come up with a good slogan with appeal to foreign tourists because Koreans, lacking a culture of discussion, will never actually ask those tourists what they might find appealing nor truly listen to them even if they were asked.
A recent comment on a different thread nailed the problem. In Korea, the speaker makes no particular effort to be clear. The onus is on the listener to figure out what was meant. Tourists are listeners. If they haven’t figured out why Korea’s slogan is so wonderfully appealing, they just haven’t tried hard enough.
My suggestion for a catchy slogan:
“Korea! Out of this world!”
Any tourists who did visit would soon learn to read this slogan as an imperative. But if that’s not desirable, there’s always the even more catchy . . .
“Korea! Land of four seasons . . . till global warming took away spring and fall.”
Jeffery Hodges
* * *
#40
#57
#63
Jadzia Dax was not an architect, she was Chief Science Officer. The Terry Farrell you speak of doesn’t seem to take credit for Incheon Airport on his website.
According to Wiki (assuming it is not your entry),
NK @ 70 –
I’m liking you more and more, bro. I agree with Robert…you’re all right in my book.
DLB
While strolling near the Yonsei Korean Language Institute back in the late 90s, I was approached by a young woman who wanted me to answer survey questions written for foreign tourists. I explained to her in Korean that I was a resident, not a tourist, and that in this area, most foreigners were residents or students. If she wanted to survey foreign tourists, one of the palaces would be a good place to find them. The perplexed and disappointed look on her face communicated that she didn’t grasp the distinction between foreign resident and foreign tourist. When she realized I wasn’t going to answer the questions, she scurried off to find another foreigner.
Sonagi,
I’m going to assume that Korea does make some kind of distinction between a tourist (a temporary stay) and a resident (a extended stay) when it comes to a visa. If true, they do make the distinction. Maybe the girl did not. Regardless, I get your point about people generalizing and how at times it can be insulting. I don’t know if she meant it to be insulting though.
Korea-Land of the Morning Calm and Perpetually Offended
@whoever wrote this
“Korea will never come up with a good slogan with appeal to foreign tourists because Koreans, lacking a culture of discussion, will never actually ask those tourists what they might find appealing nor truly listen to them even if they were asked.”
As if the French or the Italians…or us Americans! ask visiting tourists what they find appealing or listen to them. For one, most foreigners–period–don’t speak Korean, at least not any intelligent level, to have this so-called “discussion.”
Don’t confuse the plans of some bureaucrats and businessmen with the overall culture of the people. I just scrolled up and noticed the writer is jeffrey hodges.
@alex:
Obviously, the Korean government makes a distinction, and I would say that Koreans do adjust their expectations according to the length of time a foreigner has spent in Korea, language proficiency in Korean, and degree of acculturation. The more Koreans have had contact with diverse foreigners, the more they are able to adjust owing to the familiarity and understanding that experience yields. While living in China, I was treated as a righteous gentile of sorts because I had lived in Korea and spoke Korean.
The young woman who approached me was clueless.
t-Song – I think that Sonagi’s story captures Korean perceptions of Westerners pretty well. Just yesterday in fact, a guy handing out the free newspapers at the subway entrance snickered when I picked one up, because he likely thought I couldn’t speak Korean. The key is not to worry about the perceptions of strangers in Korea, or the US. My family receives stares in both places.
I’m in higher education in Illinois, and come to visit my in-laws each summer and for research.
I see other foreigners at the mixed church services I attend here, and have a few long term friends there, although there’s always plenty of turnover in the congregation. It’s definitely my favorite church.
“-stan” befits your new home, Indonesia.
The religion is there.
fanatically anti-US? Indonesia is more like it.
Indonesia is always hot, more or less.
Smiling faces? I think the Indonesians recently kicked out the Chinese living there en masse.
Stop spreading lies to promote your new home.
You have a problem.
dokdoforever,
If I was in Korea, I would assume, that they would assume, that I don’t speak or read Korean. The snickering part is hard to gauge. But you don’t seem that worried about it. Good for you.
T Song wrote: “I just scrolled up and noticed the writer is jeffrey hodges.”
Actually, the writer is Jeffery Hodges. Jeffrey is some other fellow, possibly one not married to a Korean for nearly 15 years with over 10 years working in Korea and with two children attending Korean public schools.
Jeffrey is perhaps ignorant, but Jeffery knows of what he speaks — though he usually doesn’t speak of himself in the third person (but is doing so for the moment to sound more objective).
Jeffery Hodges
* * *
How has your experience been with the public schools?
A good friend of mine who is caucasian and lived in Korea for about 15 years, was fluent in the language and certainly didn’t see himself as an alien, was finally about to repatriate. He was spening one of his last days walking along Hae Un Dae Beach in Pusan when he was approached by a young student who said “Welcome to Korea!”
He replied in Korean, “Well it’s about time the welcome committee arrived – where have you been for the past 15 years?” I’m afraid that young Korean boy hadn’t even lived 15 years in Korea himself.
The fact is, for a foreigner, no matter how well he speaks the language or understands the country, he’s always got to put on a show to prove himself again and again like some kind of trained monkey, and it just gets tiring after a while.
Another friend, who had spent a good 20 years, doing good deeds for the country, finally got motivated to get up and leave when he was approached by someone on the street saying “Yankee go home.” So he did. At that time the law prohibited him from taking his earnings with him, so he was obliged to give away all the money he had earned to his wife’s family.
Dokdoforever, thanks for asking about my experience with Korean public schools. You can read part of what I think here.
And here, you can read what a friend thinks about Korean education generally.
Jeffery Hodges
* * *
Mizar thinks that if he needs to sound more objective, it’s likely that he isn’t. But consider the source – someone who is quite figuratively beside himself.
I agree with Mizar because as a selfless sock puppet, he is perfectly objective.
Jeffery Hodges
* * *
“I”?
Honestly, Hodges…
No content to follow but…somehow always wanted to say that.
Look at that…reverting to Korean, in which (one) can simply dispense with the personal pronoun altogether.
Korea: It is have of the on my go to bed in work to home study teacher yes you know really like I am pencil no.
@Mizar:
After fifteen years in Korea, your friend apparently failed to understand the wisdom of the Korean saying “웃는 얼굴에 침 못 뱉는다. “
Korea will never be a mainstream tourism destination. The sooner the country comes to terms with that simple fact, the better.
#65 Mizar5: “The real experience of Korea is for the truly adventuresome tourist who wants to confront cultural differences.”
Nicely summed it up there. Korea has and always will be what you make of it. And it remains an absolutely necessity that the promotional gurus need to focus more on the “distinguishable” aspects of Korea rather than how “dynamic” it may seem.
@39
the new ticket machines at the subway… the ones that literally costed as much as just supporting the old ones and old paper ticket system FOR THE NEXT 20 YEARS? so, the new machines’ English menu doesn’t make sense? I hate to say it, but… Sparkling!
@52
Excellent, as were the rest of those from his original post that you didn’t copy and paste here.
@60
The cost of living rankings you list are the Mercer rankings, which are for the cost of living for ex-pat executive-types. It’s not a good indication of most people’s cost of living in those cities, and can be quite misleading. The “basket of goods” chosen to calculate the COL in the Mercer rankings includes many things that local residents or even many expats don’t buy. For example, a nice bottle of whiskey and a considerably large apartment were some of the things that are included, and that’s why Moscow, Seoul, London, and Tokyo rank up there. If a “basket of products” for non-excutives was put together and compared, such as a cross-town bus/subway ticket, a pint of the local draft beer (yuck), a meal at a restaurant downtown, tickets for two to the local professional sports team event, and a 10km taxi ride, etc., were compared, Seoul would come out looking dirty cheap compared to Tokyo and London for sure.
@63, 73
If my research is correct, Sir Terry the Brit ONLY designed the “Transportation Centre,” which is that curious structure in front of the main terminal whose function has yet to be able to explained to my by anyone.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I.....al_Airport
The wiki page for Terry seems to claim the whole airport, but only has a picture of the transportation centre.
The rest of airport, likely the terminal and parts that people generally praise, seems to have been designed by the Americans (Fentress Bradburn). You can surmise this from googling them.
@70
“The Nationalistic Xenophobic Republic of Korea – where white boys, too, can be a whiny, oppressed minority and losers mysteriously transform into…Charisma Man!”
hi nk. there’s little appeal in that either, even if it were true. little appeal because we white guys can be charisma men to Asian girls back home in the USA too, without having to buy an airline ticket to Korea or dealing with a language barrier. I’m sure you’ve taken angry note of that.
here’s a slogan for nk…
nk: trying to fill the gap that pawi was trying to fill
More than one interpretation applies.
“After fifteen years in Korea, your friend apparently failed to understand the wisdom of the Korean saying ‘웃는 얼굴에 침 못 뱉는다. ‘ ” – Sonagi
When people on this thread write in Korean but fail to provide a translation, they come across as elitists trying to be part of an in-club of those few people whose life experiences mirror their own. If that’s your intent, so be it. But a true teacher wouldn’t do that. (Of course I’m not talking about gyopo who use their smattering of Korean as a way to separate Korean-speaking women from the white boys, even on the internet so naturally does cockblocking come to them. As if.)
“The Terry Farrell you speak of doesn’t seem to take credit for Incheon Airport on his website.”
Having looked, Farrel does claim credit for the ground transportion annexe at the airport (opposite side of the departures/arrivals access road from the main passenger terminal), but not the Main Passenger Terminal which is credited to and claimed by Fentress.
I assumed as I am sure most people would, that a reference to “the designer” of Incheon Airport would mean the main Passenger Terminal. However, must admit that I like the Farrell part much more, although he proably was less constrained by the functional needs of the main terminal in designing his part.
However, I must admit the ground transportation annexe
“When people on this thread write in Korean but fail to provide a translation, they come across as elitists trying to be part of an in-club of those few people whose life experiences mirror their own. If that’s your intent, so be it.”
Nice.
It looks like “you can’t spit in the face of a smiling person,” or something similar.
“But a true teacher wouldn’t do that. ”
Zing.
Sonagi, I think he knew it too well. He just got tired of playing the clown.
I agree, the Ferrell building is more interesting and intriguing to look at, but can anyone explain what function it serves? I HAVE recently noticed that in the basement there are some stores that I didn’t previously know existed, but the building still seems like nothing more than a mostly functionless sculpture that people can walk around inside of. This is not a shot at Ferrell, mind you, just at the building and it’s lack of use.
Re: In Korea – “look at my situation” can be annoying, but at least people are a bit more forgiving of human frailty, and seem willing to apply rules to meet human needs.
Absolutely astute observation. It’s a wonderful Korean trait. It also prompts people to assume it’s okay to park on the sidewalk because of their special “situation”, whatever it happens to be. The good news is, the lack of rules apply to tourists and residents as well. Go feral in Korea!
@the distracted goof balls and their wiki searches on Incheon airport architects.
The point of the original comment was that it is the only world class facility for tourists in Korea… and the design came from foreigners. Who gives a shit if an American versus a Brit claims design of the baggage claim area? 아이찐차!
@96
Uh, you didn’t realize 소나기 is a total snob? She lives in a bunker somewhere with a bunch of Korean and English dictionaries and doesn’t know what a Host Bar is. But, I’m sure she’s nice once you get to know her.
“아이찐차!”
you sound like many of my ex-gf’s.
I disagree
Is the Ferrell building the one out in front of the terminal? That last time I ventured into that cavernous expanse, I got the idea it was supposed to be a European-style train terminus for the Airport Express (AREX) “rapid” train.
아이찐차?
Is that some kind of car?
vince, brush up dude.
Is your Chinese any better?
wjk – 1
aaronm – 0
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asi.....155084.stm
Re: 105
The last syllable always sounds aspirated when people say it… damn! The only reason I can spell Englishi half way decent is because this blog has automatic spell check. Hey Robert, can Korean spell check be added too?
And sadly my Chinese remains way worse than my Korean… but maybe it’s better than yours. I suspect the only Chinese word you know is 操
Well, Wikipedia says majority of tourism visitors to korea come from non-english speaking countries, and regardless of what korea does with it’s english slogans, things will probably remain that way for the forseeable future. I guess it would take alot, like tons, of more marketing investment on top of everything else going right for korea, to actually make a difference in terms of attracting more visitors from english speaking countries. Which means, any money thrown that way is a highly risky proposition.
And oh yeah, Bae Yong Joon is reported to be in hiding, trying to finish up his book titled “The beauty of korea” (translated), which is naturally targeted for japanese audiences. So things are ok on that front, I think.
http://news.chosun.com/site/da.....00359.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T.....outh_Korea
Re: 108
Japanese customers of my Korean company want documentation in English. While Japan is not an English speaking country, it is the international language and used by businesses (and tourists) from all over the world. The need for Koreans to offer English language services to tourists and foreign companies strikes at the heart of the problem Korea will face in trying to tap into “knowledge economy”. Can’t have a knowledge economy if you’re stoopid. We have a government and society that only knows how to pour concrete, making pretty buildings with nothing of strategic value inside them.
Re: 104
Don’t even pick on Incheon airport. You know it is one of the best in the world… and Korea needs to be best at something.
exactly, cmm.
never happens in Seoul.
Dude, I don’t know that Chinese word.
Does it mean pussy?
Just sayin’
I can recognize about 1000 characters, but can write maybe 200 ish, no idea of sentences.
I did experience public schooling in Korea.
You know, pretty much everyone in South Korean public school can read, write, and do math. That’s not the point, however. The goal is a SKY university admission.
“@the distracted goof balls and their wiki searches on Incheon airport architects.”
As far as I recall, Mr distracted goofball you are the one making repeated references to Wiki starting with, “Oh, you caught me fibbing. So I quickly updated Wikipedia”.
a) Didn’t suggest you were fibbing, just queried you’re assertion which didn’t fit with my personal reality zone, hence request for clarification “Fentress Bradburn are British? Since when exactly?”
b) Don’t need to search Wiki to confirm your assertion doesn’t fit with my reality zone, just ask you the person making the assertation to clarify, hence again “Fentress Bradburn are British? Since when exactly?”
c) Still didn’t search when you clarifed with new information, just followed YOUR distracted goofball wiki link to Terry Farrel.
“Who gives a shit if an American versus a Brit claims design of the baggage claim area? 아이찐차! ”
So now your assertion is queried you maturely respond with this, and reference to goofballs, since you raised the subject you know very well we’re talking about the Incheon Airport not merely the baggage claim.
As for giving a shit don’t especially, but it appear you do given you’re now digging a hole and backtracking “baggage claim” references. As a Brit would have been perfectly happy if a Brit had designed Incheon Airport Passenger Terminal, however when someone makes a statement that contradicts my personal zone of reality then I am naturally curious to find out if my personal reality zone is in fact incorrect and in need of updating. In this case I didn’t have to correct my reality zone, but noneless was able to update it with new, and to me at least, interesting new information you provided. Shame you ruined it with your petty carping.
Brendon, I believe so from looking at the Terry Farrell website, and I also understand it is where the new subway/rail links have/are to come in to connect to the main air passenger terminal, but I’ve never taken the time to go in and physically check.
“you’ve shed the “foreigner” mentality. for every family member who understands you, there’s someone who doesn’t and assumes you’re just another random english teacher.”
it would be those “someones who don’t” who would have to shed the “foreigner” mentality, how can Dokdoforever shed it for them?
Take it easy Vince. Just wanted to find out the details. And for god sake, stop making generalizations about foreigners!
Re: puppet troll/goofy bear
You’re just mad I outed you as a double fisted contributor who has conversations with himself.
@wjk
Your hanja is better than mine dude. I did not get the honor of Korean middle school.
操 = f-bomb
As a member of the committee present when many of these suggestions were made, I can say that at least this group is taking the input seriously. That’s the reason this particular committee exists — because previous campaigns, groups, and committees have resulted in a loss of money and have been ineffective. At least, that’s the impression I have of what their motivations are, as well as this particular committee’s sense of urgency.
Now that many non-Koreans have been included on the board, and several of us have met in sub-committee meetings to address more particular issues, such as the impact of “negative branding” (which is something I’ve been emphasizing), a hostile media environment against foreigners (spanning Lone Star to evil English teacher narratives). We also discuss pushing and/or directly supporting existing positive branding that already exists, from blogs such as this very one that parses Korea for a world audience, and which have become more diverse, covering a broad range of topics. One proposal I made was a reach-out program to existing K-bloggers, treating them like real press, keeping them on the short lists for cultural events and granting press passes, as well as other kinds of direct support.
Basically, several of us have been arguing: push up and support the positive, while using concrete measures to change the conditions that create the negative, e.g. instead of nasty visa regs based on sensationalist media reports, creating a better legal mechanism to crack down on nasty hagwon owners who screw teachers and create bad blood, deal with a continuing non-foreigner-ID friendly Korean Internet, etc.
In any case, I can tell you that there are a lot of suits and institutional inertia, but there are also a lot of us pushing against it, very frankly and openly nixing obviously bad ideas that come up, and introducing some news ones. The fact that they’re openly coming out against the slogan is a bit surprising to me, since it’s going to ruffle a lot of feathers, but at least it’s a sign that they’re willing to ruffle.
The full minutes of all meetings are publicly posted on their site, http://www.koreabrand.go.kr. The minutes of the 1st meeting I participated in are already up, and the 2nd one, which was quite frank and got a lot of opinion out there, is coming. All of these debates are on the public record, and you can see for yourself a lot of the opinions being put out there. There’s a lot of constructive proposing of things new, and nixing of things that just sound bad.
Although I don’t know what will come of all this, I must say that they appear to be listening. And all the concerns that I’ve heard here are not only represented in the committee, trust me. And even if you don’t, the minutes to the 2nd forum and the sub-committee meetings will be up soon.
http://www.koreabrand.go.kr
“Re: puppet troll/goofy bear” wow more maturity on display, you really are funny.
Particulalry sad that you’re still going for that one, despite no one supporting you, despite any intelligent perusal of past comments showing no commonality, content or style, between Mizar and myself, all based on one exchange in one post where I comment on Mizars knowledge of the law, and a joke that he couldn’t back up his bald assertion [for which he had just been critizing others on other topics] and his joking acknowledgement of having been caught out.
Not only that but you can’t even tell the difference between a bear and a famous clebrity hamster.
You really are sliding further and further into sad git troll mode. Keep diggin away, I’m really starting to find you really funny…..and all because someone had the temerity to query your assetion as to the nationality of the Incheon Airport architect.
Metropolitician, may i ask: which other countries have a “Presidential Council for Nation Branding” or sth similar? I have lived in 6 different countries (on three continents) but never saw the nation branding given so much attention.
I don’t know the answer to that question. But I can say that I wouldn’t be surprised if this were, to some extent, unique to Korea, given the great attention Korea has paid to its international status, coverage in the international press, and international rankings.
No it’s not. One of Korea’s peers, the Republic of Togo, has done it too.
Mizar and Arghaeri post from different continents and neither uses a proxy.
操
操
操
the Chinese need that many strokes to write, fuck?
Chinese language is retarded.
No one would use them if user numbers did not justify it.
In contrast English alphabet, Korean hangul, Japanese hiragana/katakana are more scientific and therefore way more efficient.
Chinese kid will be carving ‘fuck’ on his desk at school and get caught before he finishes.
where’s aaronm? I think I got him by the balls. Sweetie, you just don’t have a clue of what you’re talking about, okay Aaron?
Shhh Sonagi. People will start holding me responsible for my own words.
@jeff
Have you ever blogged about your children’s experiences as bi-racial students in the Korean public education system? BTW, I totally forgot you are the gypsy blogger. Though, I’m sure of course you’re happy with it, but it’s too bad you’re not a professor teaching some U.S. college students–and not being a well-paid English teacher. I would have enjoyed taking a class of yours when I was in college, from reading your blog posts.
Damn it Sonagi, you’ve let the cat out of the bag. Yes, Vince is my sock puppet.
What about Korean Air? People seem to like their stylish ad campaigns.
#119
Metropolitician:
One proposal I made was a reach-out program to existing K-bloggers, treating them like real press…
Stop smoking the bong.
“Dynamic Korea” did not work.
“Korea, Sparkling” did not work.
Back to “Morning Calm” or “Hodori”.
I prefer “Hodori”. Kind of cryptic.
Put “Hodori” into each Samsung and Hyundai product.
People will catch on quick. Hodori could work. Not.
All those who have been lying that Hyundai is a Korean-pronounciation of Honda should have to tell Hyundai is a Korean corporation.
That may drastically cut down on Huyndai sales.
T-Song, I’ve written a few things about my kids’ experiences as half-Koreans in Korea . . . but I don’t have the links immediately available. You could probably Google “Gypsy Scholar” and “half-Korean” and find some of these entries.
Jeffery Hodges
* * *
And the ad campaign manager, has been promoted I presume with all those who thought it was a good idea to begin with?
I suppose they thought Rain’s ( or should we call him “silver iodide” , “sliver of a guy”, or may be “silly career has already died”?) break through concert tour in north America would be the catalyst to seed the torential Korean K-pop flood in the west!
Oh yeah, that didn’t sparkle either.
I can see clearly now the rain is gone
Korea cannot become a hub of anything until the threat of the northern kingdom is vanquished. Investing and traveling to a land that at any moment could turn “into a sea of fire” is kind of a turn off for many people unfortunately.
Okay, if Sonagi says the mature hamster and the sock puppet are posting from different continents it must be true… I relent. I guess what I saw was them sharing a brain.
@wjk 126
Naw, dude. If you want to quickly scrawl the f-bomb on a desk you do it this way:日
Memorizing hanja in middle school did not make you a China expert. Don’t condemn what you don’t understand. Koreans are using the most outdated and ornate characters they can find. The Korean educators apparently think it makes them look more edumacated and keeps them where they are most comfortable… isolated.
Not much here to share, I’m afraid. But it seems I do use more of what little I have than anyone else here.
“I guess what I saw was them sharing a brain.”
Something evidently not shared by Vince.
To the contrary, Hanja education connects Koreans to Japanese and Taiwanese Chinese. While the Japanese did revise a few characters, most Kanji are identical to traditional characters learned in Korea and used in Taiwan. Singapore is the only country to follow China in using simplified characters. Once one has learned traditional characters, learning their simplified forms is relatively easy.
Good point, Sonagi.
But do you think hanja is a functional connection or just a vestige that allows people to read the backside of each other’s name cards? I mean it’s not like anyone corresponds in hanja in Korea or Japan, right? My shallow understanding is that it’s used to create names of restaurants and spice up titles in an otherwise totally Japanese or Korean newspaper.
Re: Arghaeri – I’m not sharing a brain with a hamster and a sock puppet and finishing each other’s sentences. I’m just too much of a toad for that kind of cooperation.
Warts and all.
Of course it’s a vestage. And don’t buy the bullshit about the use of hanja to clarify for a minute. More precise use of language would eliminate the need for that. If Korean is such a wonderful language, and Korean characters the pinnacle of civilization (as the writing on the wall of the Kyobo Life building would have one beleive), then Korean aught to be sufficient to convey meaning accurately.
Rather, it’s used to jargonize, decorate and boast, much as the use of buzz phrases in the business community in any country are. They make the user appear eruidite and profound although he is in fact intellectually lazy and insipid.
It makes for nice caligraphy though, and conveys the spirit of tradition.
In Korea, Hanja is used mostly as adornment. In newspapers and contracts, Hanja is sometimes included to clarify. In Japan, Kanji is incorporated into everyday writing. Using Hiragana only would result in confusion as there are so many homonyms. Some basic Japanese textbooks for English speakers use only Hiragana, gradually introducing Kanji. I find Hiragana-only sentences much harder to read than mixed script.
My daughter reported that one of the teachers at the Korean public school that she attends boasted that the Korean language is the most scientific language in the world. She didn’t believe that, but had the good sense not to contradict her teacher because she didn’t want to get punished and, anyway, first wanted to know what I thought, so I told her:
“First of all, that teacher is confusing the language with the writing system. The Korean language is no more scientific than any other. As for the Hangul writing system, it’s an achievement, I suppose, but it’s a bit of a johnny-come-lately and certainly not perfect. If it were perfect, then my name wouldn’t have the Hangul pronunciation of ‘Horasuh Jeppuree Hojesuh’.”
She again showed good sense and laughed.
Jeffery Hodges
* * *
Sonagi, the newspapers back in the 1970s were tough to read because the headlines and a much greater percentage of the text was written in Hanja. Ruminating on this topic just got me to thinking (with my conspiratorial hat on) that perhaps this was done purposely to obfuscate the fact that the news was being spoonfed to the people by an absolute dictator?
Today, things are much better. The use of hangul, which had formerly had not been taken seriously, was revived by foreign missionaries translating the bible into Korean, and today literacy is much higher as a result and anybody can read the paper without too much trouble. Of course, with TV and internet, who reads the paper anymore anyway?
Category error. Hangul, a writing system, has nothing to do with science. It was created by benchmarking a phoenetic writing system used in , I believe Tibet (our resident language expert, Sonagi may correct me if I misremember).
It’s a pretty good system, as good, I believe as what countries like Japan’s or the alphabet used by Europeans. To the Koreans of Sejong’s time, however, who had not foremerly been using a phonetic system, it likely represented a radical change from Chinese ideographs, and to them it seemed more logical, and therefore, “scientific.” Of course, geomancy was a science to them too.
“Warts and all.”
Mizar, why did you never mention you’ve met vince before
Mizar – If what I’ve heard is correct in that the component letters were designed to represent each component sound phonetically then that seems scientific enough for me.
Arghaeri, you just wanted to show vince that you have a mind our your own and that we don’t just finish each other’s…
As to japanese I would add to Sonagi’s comments. Japanese like Korean is grammaticall very different from the sino languages. Accordingly, when Kanji were adopted following the chinese (via korea??) the kanji were able to represent verbs, adjectives, nouns etc but not the tenses accordingly hirigana was developed to represent the suffix to verbs etc representing past, future, etc and some connecting word such as the possessive “no”.
Katakana were then developed to represent foregn loan words and the like.
Accordingly, its fairly rare to get a sentence without kanji in Japan, except as noted by Sonagi in educational primers. My favourite being the story of Momotaro.
“Using Hiragana only would result in confusion as there are so many homonyms.”
Never really been convinced by that argument, there are many homonyms in korean and english also. Most are overcome by context and certainly there appears to be no problem fro a Japanese when speaking/listening when they don’t have the benefit of Kanji. English speakers of course overcome a lot of the homonyms with their crazy irregular spelling (would, wood). I’ve tended to think the Japanese are just too proud and stubborn to go the full hirigana route. Much the same as the educated classes were in korea until relatively recent times, and the americans are to go metric. After all its only this century that hangeul has made real strides in being adopted en-mass.
sentences
Arghaeri,
Have you ever learned Japanese to the extent of reading news articles or literature? Japanese has far fewer phonemes than English, including only one final consonant, and thus has many more homonyms. Spoken language has a fuller context, and conversation the potential for clarification. Visually, Kanji’s compact structure and more distinct meanings allow for faster semantic processing. I’ve had the experience of reading mixed script and Hiragana only. The former is much easier to read.
@Jeffery (not jeffrey–sorry about misspelling before)
I just read the taekwondo story from your blog–that’s just sad. Most bi-racial children in the States often do OK, as they usually look pretty Caucasian. But I think with the proliferation of English teacher, non-military marriages between Koreans and Americans, I think it’ll be interesting to see how the next generation of honhyeul plays out.
I think your pondering of the pure Korean blood is interesting, as is pointing out the half-bear, half-human alleged “origins” of Daehanminguk, but you’re right–there is no pure Korean blood. Still, even among a collection of other countries, there still is definitely a Korean ethnicity.
Usually look pretty Caucasian? Biracial children of any background show varied physical features. Biracial children fit in better in the US not because they “usually look pretty Caucasian” but because Americans are a diverse people. Koreans are more tolerant of foreigners than of Koreans of diverse backgrounds because the former do not challenge Korean notions of identity.
First of all I second Sonagi’s response to t_song. There is no established causality between “biracial children looking caucasion” and “doing pretty well” and it frankly strains credibility. I know numerous biracial people who look more African American or Asian than Caucasion who do extremely well, thank you.
Second, let me say that I despise the term “bi-racial” which to me is little more than a way for others to pidgeonhole people of diverse backgrounds, which is offensive. What you are talking about is ethnically diverse people. And that is a pretty inclusive category.
These old fashioned notions of race are outdated, and have fallen out of favor. They are frankly of no use to anyone but police putting out bulletins to catch perps.
I prefer “non-racial,” which describes me and the rest of my family, thank you.
My eyes roll whenever I hear self-isolated Asian Americans betray this outmoded, self limiting mentality. Either keep up with progress or get trampled.
You have to put my statement in context before you get overly offended. Mr. Hodges’ children were essentially locked out of a taekwondo transportation van b/c the other students didn’t want to ride with honhyeul. His son was also the victim of being kicked in the back–simply b/c of the way they look.
So Sonagi, you seem to be agreeing with me–or if it suits you, I agree with your statement. We’re talking of the same thing–bi-racial Korean/Caucasian children are generally less harassed than compared to Korea.
Just one?
Не знаю об этом…
T-Song, I wouldn’t to leave the impression that my children are generally mistreated in Korea. For the most part, they have no problems getting along, and they do have friends. The harder part will be succeeding in Korean society if they choose to live and work here. They will have the advantage of being bilingual, but I have doubts as to how far that will take them.
Jeffery Hodges
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Well that would be great if Korean society accepts them, but I think — and this sounds so un-PC to say — we’ll have some real progress when Korean society adores a honhyeul who is not: 1) a talented musician or Super Bowl MVP, or 2) deadly, model-esque attractive. That could be a comedian, a talent, getting good press for being talented at any range of things Koreans often profile themselves on.
I also wonder to what extent would your children even want to stay and work in Korea, given their window abroad via their father (and probably Mom, too–I’m assuming she’s not some country bumpkin, especially if you use English with her).
And, purely as a hypothetical, I wonder the reactions of potential chaemi-gyopo classmates (in college or high school, wherever) who meet your children, and realize they are slightly fobby and speak waaaaaay better Korean than them. I actually think this would be awesome.
One last inquiry then I’ll stop harassing you: Are there any other couples with children like yourself? In that, do your children have any friends who are also bi-racial?
T-Song, my wife is smarter than I am, for she has a first-rate mind . . . and also a doctorate, in German literature. But we will probably stay in Korea, for she’s pursuing a career as a translator of Korean literature (and needs me as editor of her stuff).
My daughter had a friend who was half-Vietnamese, but she moved away. At church, there are several couples like us, with children, too, but the contact is only once a week and very brief. We live in northeastern Seoul, and though I see more and more Westerners here who seem to be teaching English, I don’t see any local couples like us.
I teach at Ewha with several men who are married to Korean women and even have children, but we don’t socialize because they’re too far away.
But Korea has an increasing number of mixed marriages and mixed children, so things will surely change . . . in some way or other.
Jeffery Hodges
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@JH
Thanks for the response. What would be interesting to me would be if your children stay and live in Korea–and marry a spouse similar to them. So you hypothetically could have 1/4 Korean grandchildren who are just as Korean as the “pure bloods” but are a majority non-Korean ethnicity.
And what of the countryside? Will we see mostly “pure” Koreans in the cities and mostly 1/4 or 1/2 Koreans in the countryside?
I would like very much to read further blog posts on GypScholar on this topic. Cheers.
#155 Sonagi, I don’t need to know the kanji to know there are numerous homonyms since homonyms means sound the same not spelt the same. Nonethless whilst irrelevant to the point in question, the answer to your question is no, I was not extensively able to read at that level, and certainly no longer am, but that does not prevent me from understanding the linguistic argument and in particular may ability doesn’t prevent those many Japanese including linguistics that I’ve discussed the topic with. Have you?
In any case I am not disagreeing with your point, kanji are excellent in that they do immediately convey the true meaning of homonyms (caveat below) to “those with good ability” in Kanji. I’m merely making the point that I am not convinved by the argument that this prevents a change to hiragana (or even hangeul for that matter) if there was a desire to do so.
The caveat is that this is qualified by “those with good ability” and my experience is that many of the younger generation do not have that ability. knowing little more than the basic 1800+ characters taught in school and that is upon graduating. Accordingly, whilst you may be able to function in literature and high end newspapers and journals, where hundreds if not thousands more characters may be used, many of the Japanese I knew were continually referring to their Kanji dictionaries when reading such material, and accordingly were not processing semantic meaning faster.
In summary, as noted I am not convinced by the homonym argument against using an alphabet.
I am more convinced by the historical, cultural and sheer beauty of retaining kanji, not to mention that those who have learn’t it do in the process seem to pick up cognitive skill, perhaps such as you, that seem make picking other language up a breeze.
NEWS FLASH: “Miraculous Korea” is being considered as a candidate national slogan by a special panel working on improving the nation’s image.
http://www.koreaherald.co.kr/N.....210047.asp
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