Open Thread #105

by Robert Koehler on June 20, 2009

Feel perfectly free to talk about the Iranian elections if you like.

Or don’t.

{ 78 comments… read them below or add one }

1 Acropolis7 June 20, 2009 at 8:16 am

Im just wondering what kind of fourth of July fireworks KJI will pay tribute to the U.S. with this year. I always look forward to his American holiday display of fail.

2 wjk, 검은 머리 외국인 June 20, 2009 at 9:10 am

Iran is NOT more mature than South Korea, as Linkd attempts to say.
South Koreans are MORE mature than Persians.

3 MrMao June 20, 2009 at 9:17 am

YEAH? Well I’m MORE mature than South Korea, Iran and a ham sandwich. HOW do YOU like that?

4 Spelunker June 20, 2009 at 9:24 am

Have there been any attempts by South Korean media to interview the parents of captive American journalist Euna Lee? Have they gone on television or been interviewed by any newspapers? Since Euna Lee’s parents live in South Korea, obviously American media are probably not going to bother bothering them.

5 Brendon Carr (Korea Law Blog) June 20, 2009 at 9:32 am

I think it’s really curious how according to Barack Obama everything happening in the world is George W. Bush’s fault, except for the people’s demand for democratic rights in Iran.

6 t_song June 20, 2009 at 10:01 am

Early Happy Father’s Days to all you Fathers out there, or expectant fathers, or soon-to-be-Fathers or, well–why not? You Sugar Daddy’s, too.

7 wjk, 검은 머리 외국인 June 20, 2009 at 11:34 am

let’s chat about whether or not Hanahreum markets and its networks in the US and Canada are actually operated by Jun Doo Hwan and family.

heard about it first here, saw it somewhere else, too.
Truth, unknown.

Is the Jang goonnim sort of feeding us in North America in some sort of odd but twisted way?

Alternatively, is Kim Jongil operating something similar in say, um, Japan?

8 wjk, 검은 머리 외국인 June 20, 2009 at 11:40 am

if it’s true, then Jun Doo Hwan killed off the various competitors of the Chunggwasang industry in the Northeast Korean community, and created a giant Korean marketchain in the Northeast USA.

this had some synergy value, in attracting non Koreans to these supermarkets. And expanding and planting beyond the Northeast and invading Los Angeles are Korean strongholds, which already had such mega Korean supermarket chains.

by the looks of things after the 90s and almost the end of the 2000s, Hanahreum is the clear winner in the Korean supermarket wars in the US. That’s what I think, anyway.

when I was a kid in Flushing, New York, 1980s, Chunggwasang was the Korean market. Much smaller. Rarely see a chunggwasang in the region, and a 100 mile radius. Definitely not as many.

9 wjk, 검은 머리 외국인 June 20, 2009 at 11:53 am

and once upon a time, most of the processed food like
Ohdaeng,
ramen,

were

Made in Japan.

Now we have a 3 tier system that fits capitalism.
From cheapest and lowest quality to most expensive and best quality,
1/ made in china
2/ made in korea
3/ made in Japan/made in US.

10 wjk, 검은 머리 외국인 June 20, 2009 at 11:54 am

don’t forget the ramen made in Vietnam.

11 Brett M. June 20, 2009 at 11:58 am

Point of clarification – is the rest of Asia working on the same model as Korea – me me me ? Where did the me me me thing come from ? I do not see it getting better. I’m still trying to figure out why some bonzo in a bongo thinks he’s more important that anyone else. And then you get the m/c guys who seem to think there are no rules for them. Is this a benefit of the appearance of no accountability in Korea ? I sense that they are out to screw everyone else, not just foreigners. They do not seem polite to each other either.

12 eujin June 20, 2009 at 12:06 pm

The British government had to lodge a protest with the Iranians when the Ayatollah called the UK the “most evil” of Western governments.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/8109303.stm

Making clear that such a statement had no basis in fact the British government pointed out that they have an entire dossier written by Ibrahim al-Marashi Alastair Campbell senior experts at the Foreign Office that proves that the US is in fact the most evil.

13 sanshinseon June 20, 2009 at 12:23 pm

Brett M — yes the rest of Asia is working on the same model, more or less depending on level of capitalist development yet achieved. What you are complaining of are symptoms of social breakdown caused by overly-rapid economic changes (ref: Toffler’s _Future Shock_). No surprises here — as the old communitarian lifestyle is shattered by modern circumstances, a raw individualism shaped by the stresses of over-crowded and over-competitive realities causes the behavior that bugs you. Some western societies have (or at least had) traditions of civil-citizen behavior that balance and ameliorate their traditions of individualism, somewhat smoothing these sortta changes. Korea & etc don’t, and the results are ugly. Whether they’ll develop them anytime soon looks to me like an open question; there are a few positive signs, but only anecdotal so far.

14 wjk, 검은 머리 외국인 June 20, 2009 at 12:41 pm

brett, yes.
You don’t have to travel so far to see it in Asia.

an Asian restaurant in the US alone can confirm it.
Especially the lower tier ones.

15 Linkd June 20, 2009 at 1:08 pm

Brett M seems to have two issues: first, is the use of loud megaphones and screaming music to promote sales a sign that Koreans (or Asians) selfish, and second, are Koreans (Asians) in general just a bunch of greedy bastards that will do anything and screw anyone to make a buck. I’ll just answer the first point, and maybe it will reflect on the second.

I chaired a conference when I was in business school in Montreal, one which was open to the public, and in particular I hoped students from other faculties and other universities would attend. We blew several hundred on professional design and printing of some swank posters, but then I discovered that I couldn’t just hang them up all over school – I had to visit the faculty office of EACH building, and get no more than 4 posters stamped and dated, and agree to remove them within two weeks. Of course I was miffed, because I wanted saturation marketing. But then I realized that the University, at any moment, has got a zillion clubs and organizations that want to promote their bake sales, raves and sports events. Individuals want to sell their textbooks, guitars and cars. If anyone could just hang up as many posters as they want, every hallway would be covered with posters. So, I saw some community-minded wisdom to the restrictions, but I couldn’t help resenting the interference with my ability (right?) to market my event. Most of the posters were never used, not because I couldn’t find people to hang them up, but because so much bureaucracy was involved with hanging each and every poster.

I’m facing a similar irritation again. One of the business possibilities Mrs Linkd and I are looking at is opening a liquor store in Alberta, and I’ve been doing a fair bit of research on the industry. I honestly can’t believe the restrictions involved with how the store must be set up, how limited my ability to run promotions would be, how limited my sales lines can be (only 10% of sales can come from non-liquor items, for example), how I can’t co-market with another business, how I’m prevented from virtually all B2B arrangements, etc. Almost all the tools I learned in business school about how to make a business successful will be useless, because government control of the industry prevents me from applying those tools.

In Canada a 7-11 can’t put a table and chairs out front. Why not? I think that’s a great thing about Korean supers. In Canada a restaurant can’t put more tables out on the sidewalk during the summer. Why not? That’s one of the things that makes Seoul such a cool city in the evenings. In Canadian suburbs, you can’t open a corner store or a drycleaner or a drugstore or a medical clinic on a residential street. Why not? That’s something that makes Korean neighborhoods so convenient and livable. In Canadian suburbs the sidewalks are empty because there’s nowhere to walk to – everything is a car drive away. In Canada a guy with a pickup truck can’t stop on a street corner and sell socks. Why not? I’ve bought all my socks from the back of a truck for the past 10 years, and never thought it a blight on the neighborhood. Rather, I appreciated it. In short, Korea (Asia) doesn’t interfere in the market as much as we do. I know that all the restirctions on business in Canada have been placed there with good intentions, but the heavy weight of paternalism has made our neighborhoods soulless places.

So, in Korea trucks can drive around with loudspeakers on them. Sure, I guess you can say “Wouldn’t it be easy just to prohibit the megaphones?” But every interference is a slippery slope. I buy a lot of fruits and vegetables from those trucks, although I remember very well how murderous I felt the very first time I woke up with a hangover and one of those trucks had stopped in front of my house. But now, I happily accept the tradeoffs: the trucks are too loud, yes, but I can go to the super 20 meters from my front gate, grab a drink and sit down at the table, and wave to my dry cleaner across the street, and stop a bongo as it goes by and pick up a watermelon, and most importantly, watch girls – because there are actually people on the sidewalks. Not like Canada, which has no loud trucks, but also no life whatsover in its residential areas.

16 Linkd June 20, 2009 at 1:12 pm

” In short, Korea (Asia) doesn’t interfere in the market as much as we do”

Domestic market, that is. Trade is another story.

17 eujin June 20, 2009 at 1:28 pm

I’m probably not going to post anything serious today. Please do not take anything I post today seriously – seriously, I mean that. I wanted to post this article but it will probably scare the bejesus out of some of the lighter sleepers round here.

There should be little debate that the world’s emerging economies in Russia, Brazil, China and certain Gulf Nations are at economic war today with the world’s Western nations and their economic allies. The currency war being fought today is sure to get much uglier in the foreseeable future, in both open tactics as well as secretly executed tactics. Currently, if the currency war were the world series of poker, the US and the UK would be holding a pair of 2s and relying on nothing but bluffs to keep the rest of the world at bay. Conversely, the Chinese and other emerging nations with large surpluses would be holding straight or royal flushes, and likely quietly maneuvering to go “all in” at some point.

You know you’ll be OK with a pair of 2s if you just keep your cool, but your so-called supporters are hoping up and down in the background shouting “they’ve only got a pair of 2s, hey, look everybody, they’ve only got a pair of 2s”.

18 yuna June 20, 2009 at 2:25 pm

Linkd, that’s sweet..
You are now seeing Korea as your wife nation (& wife’s nation) – i.e. the thought of saying goodbye is suddenly making you see all the great things, and forget the annoying things about her..From what you’ve written, once you’ve got that truck+megaphone-tolerance gene in your blood, Canadian suburbs with its blockbuster shops every 7 miles or so just might not cut it for you no mo’. hmmm.

19 john_galt718 June 20, 2009 at 2:28 pm

#5
Another day, another random snipe at Obama. You know who else is blaming W for our many messes? The American people. That is why O continues to enjoy enormous popular support at home and abroad (despite the dismal economy) and W is giving commencement speeches at high schools.
If you are seriously going to suggest that shrub is the father of the democratic uprising in Iran, you might want to elaborate just a little. If your reasoning is anything like Ari Fleischer’s analysis, I’ll get the laugh track ready now.

20 snow June 20, 2009 at 2:58 pm

Very good points, Linkd about how government interference can take the soul out of life. Many things about daily life in Korea are crazy and some things seem ridiculous (motorcycles, cars on the sidewalk), but in Canada, it seems you can’t fart without filling out paperwork. The mountain of bylaws regulating life in my neighborhood reaches a stack of pages. Grass must be kept under 6 inches, dandelions must be removed and no weed killer is allowed, despite the fact that the city land next to yours may have grass 10 feet high, and thousand dandelions per square foot and they can use weed killer because they can hire pros to do it. I thought my property was my own until I received a letter informing me that my trailer (that I got free from my brother), which was sitting in my front driveway, was illegal since it had been there for more than 48 hours. Where are you supposed to park a trailer from one weekend to the next?!? The amount of regulations governing Canadian life is ludicrous. We are suckers for government interference and in some ways I like how Koreans break so many rules with no consequence. Who wants government breathing down your neck at every turn? To start a business in Canada requires unending paperwork and adherence to regulations. In Korea, it seems that little shops spring up in every cubbyhole. When one dies, another springs up in its place.

I’m not saying that the way Koreans do things is better, but I don’t automatically assume that the way we do things in the West is automatically better than anywhere else. I love Canada and Western culture, but we are addicted to government interference in everything we do. Doesn’t anyone in Canada believe in freedom/libertarianism? Apparently not, not even in Alberta-far from it in Alberta!

21 sanshinseon June 20, 2009 at 3:06 pm

I disagree with Linkd about the selling-trucks. Their use of loudspeakers should be totally illegal and that should be enforced — and regulation-limitations on all their activity should be strengthened and enforced. I virtually never buy from them, supporting my legitimate local retailers instead.

22 Arghaeri June 20, 2009 at 3:35 pm

What happened DramMan, suddenly realise that Inspector Poirot math was a little bit better than yours!!! Fancy pulling the whole article in the middle of my commenting….

100km per hour = 100,000m divide by 60minutes x 60second = 27.8m in one second so near enough 50m in two seconds!!!!

23 Ladron June 20, 2009 at 3:53 pm

If anyone here has ever worked in a hagwon, please take my anonymous survey:

http://esldon.com/survey

it’s for a master’s program research project and you don’t have to put your name if you don’t want to.

24 gbevers June 20, 2009 at 4:28 pm

Why do Daum’s satellite photos of Ulleungdo not inlude Ulleungdo’s neighboring island of Jukdo? LINK

25 MrMao June 20, 2009 at 4:35 pm

Linkd,

as Luba once said,”Let it go.”

26 Linkd June 20, 2009 at 4:54 pm

Ha! That’s rich. The most miserably unhappy teacher ever to occupy a Korean classroom tells me to let it go, as he types on the MH from Vancouver! You’re the best, Mao.

Just wait, when I’m mayor of Medicine Hat, the first statutes I’ll enact will be allowing corner stores to put tables out front, and eliminating the requirement for small businesses to provide a certain no. of parking spaces. Then we’ll take Berlin.

27 WeikuBoy June 20, 2009 at 5:19 pm

Here’s somthing I did not see coming:

Turns out, fat drunk & stupid is a pretty good way to go through life.

28 gbevers June 20, 2009 at 5:30 pm

Another question: Why does Ulleungdo’s neighboring island of Jukdo have a helicopter landing pad on it when there are only two people who live on the island? Link to Map of Jukdo

29 Brendon Carr (Korea Law Blog) June 20, 2009 at 5:33 pm

Another day, another random snipe at Obama. You know who else is blaming W for our many messes? The American people. That is why O continues to enjoy enormous popular support at home and abroad (despite the dismal economy) and W is giving commencement speeches at high schools.

You can fool all of the people some of the time. Hell, you can fool some of the people all of the time. But mark my words, it will be one and done for the One. By the end of 2010 the bloom will be well off the rose.

Obama will fail. No, check that: He has already failed. The magnitude of his failure will start to stink next year.

30 john_galt718 June 20, 2009 at 5:40 pm

#29
That’s it? It isn’t even a good dodge. If this is the best you can muster, why respond at all?

31 Brendon Carr (Korea Law Blog) June 20, 2009 at 5:52 pm

Oh noes! I feel the scorn of john_galt718! It means so much coming from an anonymous commenter!

32 john_galt718 June 20, 2009 at 5:59 pm

How exactly am I anonymous? You know my name (yes, again, that is my actual name) and I’ve mentioned repeatedly that I live in Brooklyn, NY (thus the 718).

Your comments are usually well written and informative, but when you take pot shots at Obama you don’t back them up.

33 Linkd June 20, 2009 at 6:17 pm

It’s 1:45 in Iran. A demonstration is scheduled for 4pm. After the Ayatollah’s speech, it’s clear that anyone who joins the demonstration is knowingly taking the risk of getting shot.

The demo wasn’t called by Mousavi, it was called by one of the other opposition candidates. Mousavi’s wife, though, has put a message on a website asking people to join. Mousavi himself is supposed to make a statement within the next half hour. If he calls for the demonstration to go ahead, then it will be tantamount to calling for a revolution, since the Ayatollah has said outright that force will be used. tick tick tick…

34 john_galt718 June 20, 2009 at 6:24 pm

#33
Has anyone read when Mousavi and the other candidates are scheduled to meet with the Guardian Council to present their complaints? That is supposed to happen today as well I think.

35 john_galt718 June 20, 2009 at 6:29 pm

#5, #29, #31
Signing off, but I’ll check in later to see if you come up with something. Might want to check http://www.rushlimbaugh.com for some ideas – I’m sure he has some neo-con pablum you can crib on this topic.
Enjoy.

36 Wedge June 20, 2009 at 6:49 pm

Cool, we have an actual Ayn Rand character commenting on this site.

37 shakuhachi June 20, 2009 at 7:03 pm

Why is President Obama still fighting the War of Terror? Objectively, how do the policies of President Obama differ from that of President Bush? Rhetorical questions because it is the same wars with no end in sight, and President Obama has surrounded himself with war hawk advisors, just like President Bush.

President Obama will be a 1 term President because he lied to the people about ending the wars. President Obama is proof that you need to sell out to get to the top.

38 rmeurant June 20, 2009 at 7:03 pm

It’s been clear for quite some time that the US is spoiling for a fight with Iran, and will not let tiresome irrelevancies like reality or objectivity get in the way. (Sort of like Brendon’s predisposition to discredit Obama). Such lust for oil…

39 Linkd June 20, 2009 at 7:04 pm

Mousavi, who accuses the government of widespread voter fraud in the June 12 election, and the two other candidates who ran against Ahmadinejad were slated to meet with Iran’s Guardian Council on Saturday. The council, an unelected body of 12 clerics and Islamic law experts close to Khamenei, investigates voter fraud claims. But state-run Press TV said Mousavi, and the reformist candidate Mahdi Karroubi did not attend. There was no other details.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090620/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_iran_election

40 WeikuBoy June 20, 2009 at 7:44 pm

Shakuhachi @37

Absolutely right. Too little difference between the Fly Swatter and the Shoe Dodger.

41 tbonetylr June 20, 2009 at 8:13 pm

“But mark my words, it will be one and done for the One. By the end of 2010 the bloom will be well off the rose.

Obama will fail. No, check that: He has already failed. The magnitude of his failure will start to stink next year.”

Sounds like the typical Anti-teacher organization, F-series visa holder who amazingly knows the future!

42 Seth Gecko June 20, 2009 at 8:51 pm

I read in the Korea Times that there is a chemical — bromate — that has been found in some Korean brands of bottled water.

The article wouldn’t give the names of the companies, because even though it is “possibly carcinogenic to humans”, it is not illegal in Korea (although it is illegal in advanced countries).
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2009/06/113_47093.html

43 Seth Gecko June 21, 2009 at 1:48 am

Did I kill this thread?

44 john_galt718 June 21, 2009 at 2:28 am

Seth Gecko:
That made me laugh; it did seem like everyone nodded off after your post. I don’t know, but I think maybe it had more to do with the Iranian protests which were set to start around the same time you posted.

45 john_galt718 June 21, 2009 at 2:36 am

Speaking of the rally, it is amazing how useless the conventional news media has been at covering this story. CNN mentions every few minutes that they are forced to rely exclusively on pics/video from twitter, facebook, etc.

It would be good if someone could verify the location/time of that footage up on Mousavi’s facebook page:
http://www.facebook.com/mousavi?v=wall&viewas=1105162576

46 Linkd June 21, 2009 at 3:04 am

3000 people in downtown Tehran? That’s nothing. Ahmadinejad wins; game over.

I was at a party tonight, and the offline me was well outed as the online me. So, to clear up the confusion about this drawn-out withdrawal from Korea: I have turned in my biz license to the tax office, and can no longer write invoices or do business in Korea; my company is done. I remain here for another 2 or 3 weeks for some paperwork (taxes, mostly) to be completed. Mrs Linkd and Baby Linkd left Korea 4 weeks ago, and are now in Canada. I’m crashing with a friend in HBC in the meantime, skyping every morning to follow my little girl’s progress. Sweet as that sounds, 1 hour ago I was refereeing a game of Twister. I know there’s more than one girl out there who’s going to be clicking around to remove facebook tags tomorrow.

And yes, when my offline self leaves the peninsula, that will be it for “Linkd”. I have no date for that yet, but I expect it will be in the first week of July. For you young fucks who can only grasp “Dude, when I wanna go, I just GO.” Yes, I grasp that, too, cuz that’s what I was all about 10~15 years ago, too. Enjoy it while you can. Youth is…..beautiful.

47 snow June 21, 2009 at 5:26 am

“Such lust for oil…”

It’s much more than just oil. Except for maybe Iraq War I, it’s never been ‘all about oil’.

“I’m sure he has some neo-con pablum you can crib on this topic.”

Oh, no, not those dreaded evil neo-cons. Thank God they’ve been vanquished and the world is now safe again. Obama’s diplomacy has won out over the hostile attitude of Bush. Witness how much better the US’s relations with North Korea and Iran are these days.

48 Acropolis7 June 21, 2009 at 7:26 am

snow I advise you to visit rokdrop or Joshua’s one free korea website if you wan to learn about how this new administration is handling the north korea issue.

49 snow June 21, 2009 at 8:21 am

Thanks Acropolis7. You’re right, anyone wanting more on relations with the North should check out those sites. I cetainly hope Joshua’s information on how Obama is fed up with KJI will lead the US to do things that might actually have a real effect on Nork behavior. It sounds like Obama is not quite in the mood for ‘diplomacy’ and may even be ‘hostile’ in his attitude to the North. How ironic that Bush was roundly excoriated for his ‘hostile’ attitude until he did an about-face and became a butt-kisser. It sounds as if, due to the reality of dealing wih North Korea, that Obama may actually dispense with the ‘diplomacy’ and move straight to the ‘hostile’ stage. As I noted in another post, the more things change, the more they stay the same.

50 snow June 21, 2009 at 8:24 am

I just hope Obama doesn’t eventually pull out the kneepads as presidents before and those who believe that diplomacy is the answer with North Korea have done so often.

51 Linkd June 21, 2009 at 9:59 am

Guilty of commenting while haplessly inebriated. What is it about drunks and profanity, anyway? I was awakened at 9 am by the shouts and curses of the ajosshi next door. By 9:20 his wife and daughter were crying and pleading, and he’s thumping around the house, still swearing, yelling at them to go ahead and call the police. He settled down for 10 minutes, but now he’s shouting at them to get out, and still counting to 18….

I should go for a walk on Namsan… consider this liquor store idea…

52 wjk, 검은 머리 외국인 June 21, 2009 at 10:22 am

on your link, Linkd, I get the idea that your name is Brendan Hillson and you don’t look very WASP.

are you a half Korean who has an extra chip on his shoulder when criticizing Koreans?

Just sayin’

53 Nix June 21, 2009 at 10:44 am

>Or don’t.

It seems this option was chosen.

54 KrZ June 21, 2009 at 11:07 am

Can I take over your business when you are gone linkd? Thanks in advance. ㄱ_ㄱ

55 baduk June 21, 2009 at 11:30 am

Snow,

Obama is no fool. Whenever a polician does a tough talk, it usually means that there is nothing else to do but to talk.

Obama will do nothing. Absolutely nothing.

56 Linkd June 21, 2009 at 11:59 am

Wonderful. Now forever after anyone who Googles me will get directed here. If any admin has a shred of mercy, please delete or at least change a few letters around in my name in #52, and accept my thanks.

57 Brendon Carr (Korea Law Blog) June 21, 2009 at 12:45 pm

I thought you didn’t like an admin altering the comments.

58 Linkd June 21, 2009 at 1:03 pm

You do owe me a twist of the knife, don’t you? Caught between a lawyer and a lunatic. Watch me squirm, but I won’t beg.

59 Linkd June 21, 2009 at 1:08 pm

I might bribe, though. How many admins are there, 8-ish? I open with a bottle of Blue, you could bid against each other, and in the end I get my name changed for a six-pack of Hite and a bag of kim.

60 shakuhachi June 21, 2009 at 1:22 pm

The smoking gun proving that President Bush knew there were no WMD, and also proving that he was not just a guy deceived by advisors, but fully involved in waging aggressive war (dare I say ‘naked aggression’?) against Iraq. President Bush is a war criminal, full stop.

A confidential record of a meeting between President Bush and Tony Blair before the invasion of Iraq, outlining their intention to go to war without a second United Nations resolution, will be an explosive issue for the official inquiry into the UK’s role in toppling Saddam Hussein.

The memo, written on 31 January 2003, almost two months before the invasion and seen by the Observer, confirms that as the two men became increasingly aware UN inspectors would fail to find weapons of mass destruction (WMD) they had to contemplate alternative scenarios that might trigger a second resolution legitimising military action.

Bush told Blair the US had drawn up a provocative plan “to fly U2 reconnaissance aircraft painted in UN colours over Iraq with fighter cover”. Bush said that if Saddam fired at the planes this would put the Iraqi leader in breach of UN resolutions.

The president expressed hopes that an Iraqi defector would be “brought out” to give a public presentation on Saddam’s WMD or that someone might assassinate the Iraqi leader. However, Bush confirmed even without a second resolution, the US was prepared for military action. The memo said Blair told Bush he was “solidly with the president”.

The five-page document, written by Blair’s foreign policy adviser, Sir David Manning, and copied to Sir Jeremy Greenstock, the UK ambassador to the UN, Jonathan Powell, Blair’s chief of staff, the chief of the defence staff, Admiral Lord Boyce, and the UK’s ambassador to Washington, Sir Christopher Meyer, outlines how Bush told Blair he had decided on a start date for the war.

61 Mizar5 June 21, 2009 at 1:29 pm

It’s interesting to come back here and see the Korea-centric side of things again. Stateside, KJI has been completely knocked off the media by Iran.

Speaking of Iran, the whole world is watching and wishing them well. For the first time the Iranian people are calling for Ali Khamenei’s head and the observers are starting to see that this thing has grass roots that go far deeper than the figurehead elected President. Women and men are calling for human rights.

Obama has handled the situation impeccably, voicing concern and support for the people, while making it clear that the US has no intention of intervening, while the Republicans have bungled the thing abysmally in their naked attempt to undermine Obama, since the Iranians and Americans alike appear to see right through their hypocracy.

62 MrMao June 21, 2009 at 4:01 pm

Ha! That’s rich. The most miserably unhappy teacher ever to occupy a Korean classroom tells me to let it go, as he types on the MH from Vancouver! You’re the best, Mao.

Yes. Yes, I am.

63 john_galt718 June 21, 2009 at 6:22 pm

#61
Exactly – someone needs to send McCain a memo…
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0609/23855.html

64 john_galt718 June 21, 2009 at 6:35 pm

#47
Obama has been in office around 5 months now. He has inherited the biggest pile of crap of virtually any incoming president in our history. He’ll need some time to formulate a strategy on NK. I’m sure if you were in his position, you would know just what to do, however.
Funny you should use Iran as an example – as Mizar5 points out, O has handled handled the latest turn of events in Iran like a pro.

65 ✿⊹⊱⋛☃⋚⊰⊹✿ June 21, 2009 at 10:13 pm

Could anyone here answer me, winnieinwindland, here,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICsapPDzZtU ?

It’s a funny video clip, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S7m3mogl_s
. Funny, but not weary like http://nundol.egloos.com/9784185

Wow, an informative video about the White House gardening,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdGbALEBzZQ

66 wjk, 검은 머리 외국인 June 22, 2009 at 1:06 am

ㅋㅋㅋ

Happy father’s day.

what happened to your filter?

hey, you’re the one using a Canadian MBA to run a liquor store. I hope it’s a side business for you, well I think it is, anyway. What is that, peddling legal drugs to the public? Go get a tobacco license might as well.

honestly, I didn’t even realize you objected to it,
you provided a link to make money and draw business.
I simply read company information on the site.

No ill intent.

67 snow June 22, 2009 at 2:43 am

“He’ll need some time to formulate a strategy on NK. I’m sure if you were in his position, you would know just what to do, however.
Funny you should use Iran as an example – as Mizar5 points out, O has handled handled the latest turn of events in Iran like a pro.”

John Galt, if you had read my post #49 you would have realized that I am not criticizing Obama’s ‘hostile’ approach to North Korea. In fact, I agree with it because I think it is likely the only approach he can take with the Norks-diplomacy doesn’t work with them. I just find it very ironic that Bush was roundly criticized for taking the same ‘hostile’ approach to KJI, yet when Obama takes the same tack, not a peep.

As for Iran, it is debatable whether criticizing the ayatollahs or standing back is a better tack in current events, but more to the point, how exactly have relations improved with Iran since Obama took power?

68 Linkd June 22, 2009 at 11:15 am

To answer snow’s question, I was pretty sure I had read of some poll results showing that the Iranian public had become significantly more pro-American (OK, less anti-American) since Obama took power. Throwing in some key words to find a link to prove it, I found this:

our nationwide public opinion survey of Iranians three weeks before the vote showed Ahmadinejad leading by a more than 2 to 1 margin — greater than his actual apparent margin of victory in Friday’s election…While Western news reports from Tehran in the days leading up to the voting portrayed an Iranian public enthusiastic about Ahmadinejad’s principal opponent, Mir Hossein Mousavi, our scientific sampling from across all 30 of Iran’s provinces showed Ahmadinejad well ahead.

Independent and uncensored nationwide surveys of Iran are rare. Typically, preelection polls there are either conducted or monitored by the government and are notoriously untrustworthy. By contrast, the poll undertaken by our nonprofit organizations from May 11 to May 20 was the third in a series over the past two years. Conducted by telephone from a neighboring country, field work was carried out in Farsi by a polling company whose work in the region for ABC News and the BBC has received an Emmy award.

Now, the results may be bunk, because I don’t know what goes on in the head of an Iranian when someone calls up and says “How are you going to vote?” So I don’t really have an opinion on how good or bad those poll results are. But I have to recognize at least the possibility that Ahmadinejad did actually win the popular vote, and that we now have a minority urban elite going postal against the political ideologies of a more rural-based majority. After all, this is what happened in Thailand with Shinawat.

We’re never going to know for sure, of course. But the existence of that possibility means that any statement from the US that sounds like supporting regime change might mean that the US is supporting the overthrow of a properly democratically-elected president (admittedly, this would also mean the overthrow of the regime, the power structure of which isn’t wholly democratic, but that’s a bit more complicated). And, while most Americans have forgotten, the Iranians haven’t forgotten that the US played an active role in overthrowing one of its previous governments and installing the Shah – a regime so faulty in its construction that it led to the Islamic revolution.

So the US has to be very careful in what it says now. Its most recent activities at regime change in Afghanistan and Iraq have hardly been stellar successes, and going back a little further through various Latin American dictatorships, better examples are equally sparse. All it can do now is condemn the violence and speak in favor of the principle of democracy and individual rights. Speaking out directly in favor of Mousavi’s faction would enable the incumbent regime to declare that it is fighting a foreign-backed insurgency, something that any nation may legitimately take up arms against.

If American wants some sway in the Middle East, it knows what to do: close Guantanamo, stabilize and then withdraw from Iraq, kick the Taliban’s ass without killing civilians, provide heaps of aid that tangibly benefit common folk who have suffered from conflicts the US was involved in, and….the hardest…keep Israel in check when it feels like going on a turkey shoot or a building spree in the territories.

69 wjk, 검은 머리 외국인 June 22, 2009 at 11:44 am

http://news.joins.com/article/905/3656905.html?ctg=1503

마약 전과를 가진 김부선은 19일 오전 MBC ‘생방송 오늘 아침’과의 인터뷰에서 “대마초는 마약이 아니다. 엄밀한 한약”이라며 “정치적 흉악범, 도둑질한 사람들처럼 우리가 뭘 잘못한게 있느냐”며 주장했다.

‘대마초가 한약이면, 필로폰은 양약인가요?’(김민석)라는 등의 의견이 이어졌다.

Impossible comment in the days of Jun Doohwan.
Kim Daejung and Noh Moohyun paved the way for tolerance of such comments.

Kim and Noh are often labeled to be on the same boat as Kim Jongil.
What is interesting is that, freedom of speech has proliferated under Kim and Noh, while it basically disappeared up North under Kim Jongil.

I’d say that is fairly an objective assessment.

marijuana is hanyak, hmm.

I encourage the Canadians in Korea to use that line at the police station.

70 wjk, 검은 머리 외국인 June 22, 2009 at 11:47 am

최대언 (tjstndhkehtk) 06.22 10:20 : 0 | : 5 : 0 |
아주 세상이 요상하게~~돌아가는구나, 마약을 한약이라하고~~(마약사범)수사를 정권 국면전환용 이라고 매도하고~~그렇게 좋은 효과의 한약이라면~~당신 남편,자식들에게 또 본인도 많이 먹고,맡고,맞고 혀봐!!

me likes above.
Someguyinkorea and his kid smoking a joint together in Korea and trying to discover what other subtleties they can from the old Beatles album.

71 wjk, 검은 머리 외국인 June 22, 2009 at 11:50 am

강성호 (ksh916313) 06.22 08:01 : 0 | : 15 : 0 |
간통은 자손 번식, 절도는 생존 행위, 지가 먹으면 한약,청소년이 먹으면 마약,

Koreans in Korea have a unique view of things.
I can’t fathom how blue eyes comes to Korea and accuses them of lacking critical thinking skills.

72 Arghaeri June 22, 2009 at 12:29 pm

thereby demosntrating your lack of critical thinking skills ;-)

73 snow June 22, 2009 at 1:23 pm

“To answer snow’s question, I was pretty sure I had read of some poll results showing that the Iranian public had become significantly more pro-American (OK, less anti-American) since Obama took power.”

Sorry, Linkd, your poll results are meaningless. The only ones that really matter when it comes to improving relations between countries is the leadership. You can’t have diplomatic relations with the people of a country while bypassing the leadership, unless you do it stealthily, which Obama appears loathe to do at this point. And anyway, where in the world didn’t America’s ratings jump when Obama came into power?

74 Linkd June 22, 2009 at 2:11 pm

Just saying that in order for a democracy to impose its will on another country, it needs to establish its legitimacy, both at home and in the target nation. Bush/Rove et al effectively drummed up domestic legitimacy with a neocon PR campaign that convinced a critical mass of Americans that America’s political system was so supreme that it was right to impose it on other nations for their own good. This view has lost sufficient support at home, and therefore its legitimacy. This view never had any support abroad, and so was never seen as legitimate at all.

However, there remain many founding American principles which everyone at home and many people abroad do see as self-evident goods, and which therefore give America a lot of moral legitimacy when it comes to promoting those principles. Philosophically, those values remain good even when what the US actually does is bad. But in practice, when the US does bad enough times to enough people, while still using the PR talk of claiming moral legitimacy, then its message weakens.

So, now, at this point, the US is right to stick to vocal statements of support for its founding principles, and staying the hell away from any words or actions that can be taken as imposing its will on people of other nations. This has a record of proven failure, and I’m hard-pressed to think of examples of its success, although any such judgments are I suppose subject to how long of a timeline you use to make that judgment.

75 Linkd June 22, 2009 at 2:20 pm

As for the diplomatic relations thing, the US and Iran don’t actually have formal diplomatic ties. So this and then this were like the baby steps of negotiating a way to even begin negotiating. But of course all that’s down the drain now.

76 snow June 22, 2009 at 2:51 pm

What really matters in foreign relations is what works. Did you achieve what you set out to achieve and what are the negative consequences? This is how I believe foreign relations should be conducted. If Obama’s approach achieves anything, that’ll be great, but so far it hasn’t improved relations with Iran at this early stage and with things going the way they are, we will have to see what happens, though I really worry for the lives of the protesters. I really would be surprised if the protests lead anywhere positive for the protesters since the ayatollahs hold all the important cards.

As for North Korea, Bush’s hostile approach, other than the sanctions on financial transactions, gained nothing. Relations with the Norks never improve no matter who is in power in the US, South Korea or Japan. KJI knows how to con the pants off of everybody and nobody ever calls him on it. Right now, relations with North Korea are no better than they were under Bush. What I find ironic is that Obama’s approach, which is currently no less hostile than Bush’s was, has drawn no condemnation, no demonstrations, nary a peep from those who formerly screamed and ranted about the evil neo-con policies of Bush.

77 The Goat June 23, 2009 at 12:18 am

Four more weeks.

78 SomeguyinKorea June 26, 2009 at 9:06 am

Michael Jackson is dead.

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