The KCNA — via Yonhap (via the Chosun Ilbo) — reports that a North Korean court has sentenced US journalists Laura Ling and Euna Lee to 12 years of hard labor each for hostile acts against North Korea and illegally entering the country.
Now, I guess it’s a question of how much the Obama administration, Al Gore, Oprah, etc. want to pay to get them out.
{ 44 comments… read them below or add one }
Yeah and now the US is mulling over whether to put the Norks back on the terror list (remind me again why Bush took them off in the first place). Then again, I seem to remember the neverending huffing and puffing over how Bush’s hostile attitude was the real problem in dealing with the North. Well, as we see once again with the North, it’s truly amazing how much can be accomplished with diplomacy. We just have to understand the North and have an attitude of openness and we’re sure to see change.
So, let me get this straight, they snuck into the country and got caught?
If that’s the gist of it, then it’s hard to be super sympathetic…
Still…
“We just have to understand the North and have an attitude of openness and we’re sure to see change.”
@1 You are joking, right? I was horrified, but then I realised you must be joking. You funny little jester. Yeah. I’ll join in, too: We should all send presents to KJI and shame him into being nice to everybody. ㅋㅋ. snow, you funny little prankster you. You really had me going there…….
Why do journalists bother going to North Korea anymore? Here’s every story about NK: “Conditions in North Korea are bad.”
To write that insightful piece, I didn’t even have to risk becoming famous, er, caught and released as did the female journalist who went to Iran.
These women were dumb as paint to go any where in the border region since they were apparently nabbed inside China and taken to NK.
If NK will stoop to back-shooting housewives in the back while they watch the sun rise, should we expect anything better from them, really?
and as arrogant as Christian Amanpour (without the protective cloak of her fame). I hope none of my tax dollars is devoted to trying to free them. Let Al Gore foot the bill.
In defense of these two women there is no proof they crossed into North Korea and reporting from the Chinese/North Korean border is really nothing new. It has been done plenty of times before without journalists being grabbed. The river is regularly filled with boats of tourists getting a glimpse into North Korea.
The only people that know the truth about what happened is their camera man who escaped and has been forced to keep quiet about what happened and their Chinese guide who has mysteriously disappeared.
If the cameraman comes out and says that they crossed into NK than yes let Al Gore foot the bill. He has made a cool $100 million since leaving office from his global warming scaremongering anyway.
If he’s been “forced” to keep silent [how?] by Current TV, that pretty much says it all. Let Gore pony up.
Likely they were snatched near the river, while legally in China.
China is the new brown shirt state of the world, and it is a despicable and evil empire driven by slave labor and hostile military ambitions.
I was shocked when I heard Secretary Chu of the USA claim that China is doing its best to pursue eco friendly economic development. Note to self: this guy is ethnic Chinese. Note to self: Wen Ho Lee, PRC hoarding up US T-bills, stealing military and civilian industrial tech with no apologies, etc. Chu might be a spy. 5th column. Otherwise, how do you spew such nonsense on National Socialist, I mean Public Radio?
Reality is that you might never see these two women again before they reach menopause.
I would say Obama and Clinton were pretty laisse-faire about the entire affair.
Bookhan will try to blackmail US to donate $ in exchange for two liberal, misguided East Asian US females, apparently abandoned by the US govt in time of need. Likewise, Affirmative Action never helps East Asian Americans who advocate for them.
assuming US govt is willing to negotiate with Arab terrorists, but unwilling to negotiate with a Korean terrorist state governed by King Kim,
only a huge cash payment may or may not free these 2 women.
I’m not certain Al Gore’s money will be enough to settle the issue. The Bookhanese may want more.
Blood on China for playing proxy on North Korea.
I will remember this, and actively protest against the evil state with all available legal means to the individual. This means I will probably never travel and waste money on touring China.
hey, I haven’t eaten in a Chinese restaurant for 90 days and counting !
It’s all fried shit anyway.
USA doesn’t pay ransom for captives.
South Korean govt does. Or it did once.
Highly unlikely, but if 2MB decided to pay the ransom,
it might be possible these 2 are freed.
But, why should they?
Gyopo girl voted for anti KORUS FTA, US President.
The other girl has no ties to Korea.
Most gyopos voted for US President, Senator, Congressman, local officials who would be of no help to 2MB and actually harmful to 2MB’s plans for Korean and American trade. Don’t play with them when they come up to Yonsei to wear blue in YonGohJun. They’re not even real Yonsei students to begin with.
Wjk:
Forgot the meds again? You forgot em. Take em, wjk. No, really, don’t wait. Do it now.
Why does Al have to foot the bill? Why can’t some of those Holy Capitalists (who’ve been consciencelessly raping the world’s economies) and their rethuglican dupes pony up?
If journalists didn’t take risks, the rest of us idiots would not know what was happening in the world. We seem to be quick to criticize, but we are equally quick to read their writings and claim a better understanding of how the world is.
I admire journalist. Without them we all may as well go back to living in caves.
I pray and hope that the two would be released. But that and $2.00 (soon to be $2.50) will get you on the NYC subway.
The North Koreans would have employed prisoner’s dilemma in their interrogation tactics on the two. They were likely questioned why they were at the border, what were they filming, what kind of report they intended to produce, etc. If there was any discrepancy in their testimonials, the North Koreans would have likely seized upon them.
It boggles the mind what train of thought led these two women to attempt to infiltrate North Korea in such cavalier fashion. I think a lot of the organizations, like PSALT, dealing with North Korea issues have connections with and are highly influenced by the Korean-American Conservative Christian Right, where the impulse for international missions remains quite strong. I reckon this is basically a repeat of the incident where the Taliban captured those Korean missionaries in Afghanistan three years ago.
Can’t we just send in Chuck Norris to rescue them?
I don’t think this will last long either… but it will be remembered (by members of the U.S. Congress, among others) for a long, long time to come, as one more thing on long, long list.
Chuck Norris, my foot… the exact personage needed, with his wrists the size of tomato cans, is Remo Williams.
I’ve heard consistently that they did not enter NK, but were seized while on Chinese soil. If that’s the case, then I don’t think we can fault them for that. Lots of people go to the Amnok to peer into NK; most of them don’t get grabbed.
Remo Williams,
)
myyour ass. Localize. Send in Master Chiun.$2.25
Im pretty sure that after 2006 Kim Jong Il put a search on Lisa Lings family and has been waiting for one of them to be foolheartedly enough to come close enough to the border and nab them.
As GI Korea correctly noted, the border draws many curious Chinese and foreign onlookers. North Korea does not habitually invade Chinese territory except to snatch defectors and those who help them.
NK has agents in China. The women were probably lured (or misled) across the border then nabbed. It would take pretty big balls for NK to invade China and kidnap the women.
Aren’t there videos on Youtube of various people boating right across the Yalu River and up to the North Korean riverbanks? If I were an intrepid Current reporter, I might find that sort of adventure irresistible.
No it wouldn’t. Chinese police frequently allow NK agents to “take custody of” defectors & such within Manchuria, and haul them back into NK, one hears.
I don’t see where these two journalists did anything wrong or foolish, from the facts that we know. Just real unlucky, or maybe were targeted as said…
Are there any North Korean officials in the US? If so, why not put them on trial as spies and then arrange a swap for the two women? Anything’s better than giving in to the Norks blackmail.
You can’t be serious, snow. If so, a little trip back to the States to recharge your idealism would be in order.
I wonder what the UN would do if the US rounded up all the Koreans at the DPRK mission to the UN and put them on trial; not allowed outside New York City without permission I heard.
They’d probably send them Hans Blix with a stiffly worded letter of rebuke.
We don’t know many facts. But I bet the US State Department and the Chinese Police knew a lot more than we do as they’ve probably interviewed Mitch Koss at great length and seen his tapes. I wonder how much Laura’s sister Lisa Ling knows. She certainly knows much more about undercover reporting in North Korea than most of us.
I’ll also wager that “hostile acts” refers much more to attempts to unflatteringly portray the Socialist Paradise than it does to crossing the border.
@27
snow, you just said
snow, you’ve changed your mind? In comment 1 you said
You don’t think we should be sending KLI roses, chocolates, smiles and fwuffy bunny wabbits any more? Whatever caused your change of mind?
*KLI = KJI
It was reported that they were in China investigating the trafficing of North Korean women in China, a likely source of revenues for KJI, obviously a sensitive point.
Additionally, it appears as if the military hardliners are fighting for control over the various criminal activities NK uses to generate capital for the elites (ie. dollar counterfeiting, drug smuggling, missile smuggling, etc. Snatching some US hostages creates an additional opportunity to add blackmail spoils to the list of criminal enterprises.
The power struggle occurs at a time when a sickly KJI is trying to pass the mantle of power to his young son. Whatever gesturing and other events occur right now have an internal political logic which makes NK more “unpredictable” than ever.
It’s hard to say who wins out in such a power struggle, but it seems likely that the Kim dynasty may be maintained as British-style royal family with the real power passing to a NK-style Park Cheong Hee type figure.
Actually, that may be the best possible scenario for the country. A rational, nationalistic leader like Park Cheong Hee, who is both ambitious and ruthless enough to move the country forward may be able to move the country along in the Korean development model. After some 50 years of economic development, liberalization and reunification might be possible.
Kim Jongil is stupid if he chooses his youngest son, the one who was allegedly crippled in a motorcycle accident, as future leader of North Korea.
Times do change.
However, usually Kingdoms collapsed in old times of Korea when rulers gave their kingdoms to inexperienced children under the age of 20 to rule as new kings. Okamoto-like figure who rules for the King Kim clan? Thru out Korean history, these janggoons usually played traitor eventually. Okamoto himself grabbed power by a military coup and rule under the gun. His only grace was not stealing enough to cripple the nation, like the Phillipines.
Seems like Euna Lee married a non Korean whose ethinicity rests somewhere between Europe and Iran. Look up cnn to verify. A mother in her 30’s with a 4 year old daughter at home. Reporting from Chinese North Korean border. What earth shaking news was discovered?
As said, I do not need meds.
Chinese govt is the new brown shirt state of the world and one of the most evil empires known to mankind.
It was also reported that they were down on the ice of the Tumen River that forms the border at the time they were taken.
Has anyone here ever applied for a journalist J-2 visa in China? My understanding is that if you want to make a news report or documentary in China you need one of these and you need to give details about the assignment and where you will be going. Presumably the Chinese authorities aren’t too proud of human trafficking of Koreans in China.
“You don’t think we should be sending KLI roses, chocolates, smiles and fwuffy bunny wabbits any more? Whatever caused your change of mind?”
Adam-awry, glad that you caught that I was kidding the first time. Bunny wabbits and goodies would be ok, though. Maybe we could deliver a basket of them tied to a cruise missile?
“You can’t be serious, snow. If so, a little trip back to the States to recharge your idealism would be in order.”
You’re right Linkd, it would be impossible to put any North Korean ‘diplomats’ on trial in the US. The human rights groups would be all over the US government for this.
What options does Obama really have in all this? And what’s happened to the ‘give diplomacy a chance’ crowd that ranted endlessly when Bush was being ‘hostile’ to KJI? I never heard many of the ‘give diplomacy a chance’ crowd giving Bush much credit after he fell off the hardline. Where are they now that Obama, the ultimate ‘give diplomacy a chance’ lip service artist is rattling the cage as much if not more than Bush did?
I had a dream last night that starting with some of the buildings on fire, there were fire bombs in Seoul. Then these small missiles came and opened up (like they do in cartoons when the bullet or bomb opens and out comes a flag or something) they were loaded with some sort of fairy dust which was supposedly swine flu. It had a Roger Rabbit-esque feel to it but still scary.
Man I feel sorry for Laura Ling. Her sister, Lisa Ling, is some heavy baggage, who tricked the North Koreans into thinking she was part of a humanitarian mission to perform eye surgeries when in fact she was secretly a journalist making a National Geographic documentary on how bad North Korea really is. When Larry King interviewed her last week and asked “Well, Lisa, you’ve been to North Korea before, haven’t you?” she began back pedaling and stuttering to make it clear that her
hostile acts against the DPRKreporting “had nothing to do with my sister’s case.” (Then again, Euna Lee was not even a reporter, but an editor pulled in on the trip no doubt due to her Korean language ability). Since they both work for a Nobel Prize winning friend of Secretary of State Clinton, I nominate him to go to the DPRK and try to work it out (sorry Bill Richardson, as much as it would enhance your résumé).UN:F [1.8.1_1037]
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Sorry, I did not mean to strike out everything past “hostile acts against the DPRK”…
Hell, I don’t know, snow. But there is an answer, somewhere. As far as influence over other countries, the tools the US are muscle, money and moral credibility. None of those three have been strengthened of late. Of the three, the last is potentially the most powerful, and also the one the US has the best chance of maintaining clear leadership in over the mid to long term. So it’s extremely important to safeguard that one, and not go doing things that impair the third based on the assumption that US leadership in the first two will somehow make it ok to be immoral.
I guess I’m thinking of America’s position with the rest of the world (the real world) with the above statements. As far as North Korea goes, I don’t actually believe the US has any influence at all. As far as getting those two women back goes, I think the North can set its price and the US will just have to pay it. America has zero leverage in this instance.
KJI’s number one goal is regime survival. Thus, you won’t see Euna and Laura do hard labor and you won’t see North Korean rockets land in the streets of Seoul or Tokyo. They will bang the sabre until the sword falls off the hilt but they won’t actually use it. To use it means it will give the U.S. or South Korean or maybe even Japan a justification for military intervention. Military intervention will likely end-up in a humiliating DPRK defeat (or non-response).
In my opinion, the country that may have the most influence on North Korea may be Japan. How so? Well, there is a little organization in Japan headed by zainichi Koreans who’s great, great grandparents use to have hometowns in present day North Korea and organized into a group called Chosen Soren. They control 60-80% of the cash cow business known the pachinko parlor. This provides about $600M of the cold hard foreign currency needed to keep the Hennessy cognac flowing, the Joy Brigades dancing, and chefs traveling the word to find exotic new dishes for his majesty’s palate. KJI of course shares this with his party’s loyal favorates. Cut this off and you’ll cut off one of the major sources of KJI’s ability to keep his minions loyal.
Fuel? Gas? Food? That mostly benefits the common people, which have already been deemed “expendable” by the party higher-ups. Cut off the supply of pachinko yen to KJI and he will run, not walk, to the negotiation table…
Nice to see you using the Japanese name
. So are these guys going belly up or not?
The Sydney Morning Herald mentions two other countries that have some leverage. South Korean trade with the North is about US$2 billion, whereas the Zainichi remittances may only be around US$600 million (still a lot though if there’s only 100,000 of them).
eujin,
I would hazzard to guess that most South Korean trade with North Korea is on the books and legal. In other words, there is a paper trail.
However, most zainichi remittances are in cash, meaning it’s untracable and its potential for illicit use much greater.
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