Open Thread #103

by Robert Koehler on June 6, 2009

Have a happy and healthy weekend.

And on that note, we here at the Marmot’s Hole bring you the following public service announcement:

“There’s a fine line between the state of hypoxia [lack of oxygen in the brain] and death, and it’s in that state that a person becomes highly aroused and it’s what allows them to orgasm,” said Eli Coleman, chair of the sexual health department at the University of Minnesota.

“People usually have safety nets and no intention to die, but something often goes wrong in their calculation,” he told ABCNews.com. “Maybe a stool or something they are standing on somehow slips away.”

The Federal Bureau of Investigation estimates there are between 500 and 1,000 such deaths in the United States annually, mostly among young men. Many more may be falsely ruled as homicides or suicides.

Please, if you’ve got to beat off, beat off safely.

And we’ll miss you, David Carradine.

{ 78 comments… read them below or add one }

1 Seth Gecko June 6, 2009 at 12:13 pm

I think it was here that I watched an embedded video of a movie maker (director?) that went on a tirade about Michael Bay, among others.
I tried to search for it, to no avail.
Any help?
(Btw, FIRST!)

2 John from Daejeon June 6, 2009 at 12:15 pm

I can’t believe that I’m actually beginning to see some intelligence in one of Baduk’s postings earlier this year, but I think it may be in President Lee Myung-bak’s best interests to turn the next bullshit the North pulls into a full-fledged war this summer. Not that I am totally convinced that it will actually happen, but it would cement his dwindling status in the eyes of his people, both above and below the DMZ, as the one “Great Unifier.” Finally, the one man with the cojones to stand up to the little dude’s fear mongering. The man who saved Seoul from nuclear annihilation. The man who saved the starving. The man who freed the countless political prisoners from their lives of torture and misery in the gulags. The man who re-united the peninsula.

It will by no means be an easy decision, but he has to take into account the loss of civilian life that multiple nuclear bombs used against the South will cause versus the loss of life of those in the military. There is also the monetary (and mental) cost of the status quo versus the cost of unification.

He may be second-guessed ad infinitum in the short run, but years from now, there’d be no doubt to how great he was to accomplish it. Or, he may do nothing and be remembered as another in a long line who got pushed around by the little guy to the North and his agitators here in the South.

I’m just glad that I’m not in his shoes.

3 JW June 6, 2009 at 12:18 pm

Michael Bay! I just saw his movie “The Island” and it was pretty good. You can watch it on youtube!

4 SomeguyinKorea June 6, 2009 at 12:28 pm

Just for the fun of it…

It’s too early to rule out foul play in Carradine’s death. His hands were tied behind his back according to his agent and, apparently, one of the paramedics. His ex-wife’s claimed he enjoyed a sexual practice that could cause death (I’m guessing she wasn’t referring to having sex with a rabid warthog while bungee jumping over a pond filled with famished crocodiles) during their divorce, claims that were well published back in 2004, (she also claimed he was in an incestuous relationship). This could have given a perfect cover to anyone wanting to murder him. Tie a rope around his neck (and, apparently, his family jewels) and leave it to the Smoking Gun to dig up the old court records and suddenly all suspicion of foul play is erased. I know, it’s a bit far fetched…but, there are plenty of reports that he wasn’t in a good financial situation. He apparently had huge debts. Maybe he owed money to the wrong people.

5 Above Criticism June 6, 2009 at 12:30 pm

The best, most searingly accurate assessment of Michael Bay’s career ever written:
http://www.theonion.com/content/news/michael_bay_signs_50m_deal_to_fuck

6 SomeguyinKorea June 6, 2009 at 12:35 pm
7 SomeguyinKorea June 6, 2009 at 12:37 pm

AC,

Yeah, everything he touches turns to brown.

8 Granfalloon June 6, 2009 at 12:39 pm

Why is there not a media shitstorm about the recent Choi Jin-sil lawsuit? Is there some “extenuating circumstance” here that I’m not aware of?

Man, I picked the wrong week to quit hating humanity.

9 r.rac June 6, 2009 at 1:14 pm

Dont forget what today is. Memorial Day in Korea and the 65th anniv of D-Day in Europe/US we need to remember those people who stormed the beaches of Normandy and thank them before they are all gone.

Thanks to all the Koreans killed in the line of war and those who stormed those beaches

10 kpmsprtd June 6, 2009 at 1:34 pm

R.I.P. David Carradine. Your work in the Kung Fu series touched even the most ignorant of country boys in the American Midwest.

Master Po: [after easily defeating the boy in combat] Ha, ha, never assume because a man has no eyes he cannot see. Close your eyes. What do you hear?
Young Caine: I hear the water, I hear the birds.
Master Po: Do you hear your own heartbeat?
Young Caine: No.
Master Po: Do you hear the grasshopper that is at your feet?
Young Caine: [looking down and seeing the insect] Old man, how is it that you hear these things?
Master Po: Young man, how is it that you do not?

11 Railwaycharm June 6, 2009 at 2:07 pm

Seems that old “Grasshopper” was a scumbag. Screwing a relative and wife beating. Not cool. What moron who for all intents and purposes lives in Bangkok, wastes his time beating off? You can’t swing a dead cat in that town without hitting a gorgeous ninety pound slapper.

12 Seth Gecko June 6, 2009 at 2:25 pm

Seth,

It’s pretty easy to find.

http://video.google.com/videos…..&emb=0

Well, not that easy; I didn’t know the guy’s name. Anyway, you linked a whole page of videos, none of which were the one that I had seen before (your page was full of “responses” to the video, and comedic edits).

Here’s the one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HHfF67lgE8

Uwe Boll is funny!

13 Benicio74 June 6, 2009 at 2:42 pm

As someone I know asked the question “when did sex get so boring that you have to choke yourself half to death to enjoy it?”

14 Seth Gecko June 6, 2009 at 2:44 pm

Benicio74 June 6, 2009 at 2:42 pm
As someone I know asked the question “when did sex get so boring that you have to choke yourself half to death to enjoy it?”

When he got married :)

15 SomeguyinKorea June 6, 2009 at 2:49 pm

kpmsprtd,
The actor who played Master Kan was the son of an important Korean historical figure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Ahn

16 Benicio74 June 6, 2009 at 2:50 pm

touche!

17 NetizenKim June 6, 2009 at 2:51 pm

Bruce Lee’s was waiting in the afterlife to kick his ass.

18 Seth Gecko June 6, 2009 at 2:53 pm

My new hero, Uwe Boll, beating-up a blogger!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swg4SshYx2E

19 judge judy June 6, 2009 at 3:02 pm

those damn slippery stools.

20 NetizenKim June 6, 2009 at 4:19 pm

Sean Hannity linked to Neo-Nazi Hal Turner.

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20050620/blumenthal

21 NetizenKim June 6, 2009 at 4:21 pm

Korean versus Korean discrimination suit in Fort Lee, NJ

http://www.northjersey.com/business/news/46514417.html

22 snow June 6, 2009 at 4:27 pm

He died while masturbating? In Bangkok?!? Who needs to masturbate in Bangkok?

23 Sperwer June 6, 2009 at 5:01 pm

while not out of the question – when it comes to human sexual practices, pretty much anything is both imaginable and likely actually practiced – it’s very unlikely that Carradine was choking the chicken in solitude. I suspect he had at least one, and probably more than one, local service provider(s) acting the geek (See the original carny sideshow meaning) and tripping the rigging. If they were TS of the rougher sort, then it’s also possible that his death wasn’t simply accidental.

24 Benicio74 June 6, 2009 at 5:39 pm

New band name: Masturbating in Bangkok

25 gbevers June 6, 2009 at 6:07 pm

MSNBC

BANGKOK – Police are speculating that accidental suffocation, not suicide, may have caused the death of American cult actor David Carradine, whose body was found in a hotel closet in the Thai capital with a rope tied to his neck, wrist and genitals.

First suicide and now an accident? Are Thai police afraid to use the “M” word?

Was the rope tied to only one wrist or two? If it was tied to two, then how did he do that by himself?

Also, what about the suggestion that he was playing sex games by himself in Bangkok, a place where all kinds of sexual perversions are only a phone call away?

By the way, I would just like people to know now that if someday my body is found with three bullet holes to the head or something similar, do not believe police if they say it was probably an accident or suicide.

26 Sperwer June 6, 2009 at 7:08 pm

“One night in Bangkok, and the tough guys crumble;
Can’t be too careful with your company;
I can feel the devil walking next to me.”

27 tbonetylr June 6, 2009 at 8:00 pm

I wasn’t that interested in east meets west back when Nixon shook hands with Zhou En Lai, so I didn’t watch ‘Kung Fu’ nor was I a fan of ‘Kill Bill.’ Supposedly, his last movie will be ‘Bad Cop.’

28 Sonagi June 6, 2009 at 8:48 pm

RE: the Korean versus Korean discrimination lawsuit

If the meager 10% of employees who were non-Koreans were expected to clock out on time because they might raise a stink about working overtime without pay, then one could easily conclude that the owners discriminated in favor of Koreans when hiring. I wonder how many of those employees were hired with fake IDs since undocumented workers aren’t in any position to demand compliance with labor laws.

29 WeikuBoy June 6, 2009 at 11:36 pm

I caught some of Obama’s speech in Germany on CNN yesterday, and some of his speech in France today. I didn’t vote for him, and in truth he’s been a big disappointment to those of us on “the left” in his failure to quit Iraq and dismantle the Bush-Cheney police state. But I like him a lot personally. I like the way he represents the United States abroad. I’m glad he’s my president; and I’m glad Michelle is his, and our, first lady.

Unlike the Rush Limbaughs (and Brendon Carr’s?) of the world, I wish him success. Having lived abroad for two years now for the first time in my life, I realize that the world needs the U.S., and that for all its faults (and its faults now [cough neo-fascism] are many, a strong U.S. is vital to the rest of the world, even China.

30 kpmsprtd June 7, 2009 at 1:44 am

From the Bangkok Post:

The US Embassy however was not satisfied with the police after they revealed the details of Carradine’s death to the media. The police had damaged the deceased actor’s reputation and they may have violated human rights, the embassy said.

Indeed, the classy, tasteful, pre-Internet way of dealing with this kind of case is to leave certain details unmentioned. I am disappointed in the Bangkok Police Department. I’m even more disappointed in The Marmot’s Hole, where a generally fair-minded bunch of folks hang out.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/145333/carradine-body-returns-to-us

31 kpmsprtd June 7, 2009 at 1:50 am

Re someguyinkorea’s:

The actor who played Master Kan was the son of an important Korean historical figure.

Yes. It’s true that Asian-American actors finally caught a break with the Kung Fu series.

James Hong, an actor on the show and ex-president of the Association of Asian/Pacific American Artists (AAPAA) says that at the time Asian actors felt that “if they were going to do a so-called Asian hero on Kung Fu, then why don’t they hire an Asian actor to play the lead? But then the show went on, we realized that it was a great source of employment for the Asian acting community.” In fact, Hong says, Carradine had a good relationship with the Asian community. (pages 32–33)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kung_Fu_(TV_series)

32 R. Elgin June 7, 2009 at 1:54 am

As someone I know asked the question “when did sex get so boring that you have to choke yourself half to death to enjoy it?”

- – When he got married

Man, I have heard this complaint from many married guys. Apparently, from what I have heard from a therapist and other men, I am beginning to think that infidelity is not a vice but rather relief.

33 Linkd June 7, 2009 at 2:13 am

Mrs Linkd, if you’re reading this in Mountain Standard Time, just ignore Seth and Elgin. I’m taking my vitamins, and looking forward to hooking up with you soon. Repeatedly. Sans garrote.

34 dogbertt June 7, 2009 at 2:26 am

Hung Fu.

35 Nix June 7, 2009 at 2:55 am

@34

You are going to pun hell for this. :)

36 NetizenKim June 7, 2009 at 4:27 am

#28 Sonagi:
RE: the Korean versus Korean discrimination lawsuit

If the meager 10% of employees who were non-Koreans were expected to clock out on time because they might raise a stink about working overtime without pay, then one could easily conclude that the owners discriminated in favor of Koreans when hiring. I wonder how many of those employees were hired with fake IDs since undocumented workers aren’t in any position to demand compliance with labor laws.

I would guess a substantial amount. But this is a step in the right direction. Enforcing fair labor laws can bust the cap open on the undocumented workers. A friend of mine was telling me about another Korean run company that was being audited by the IRS, which also exposes undocumented workers as a side effect.

37 SomeguyinKorea June 7, 2009 at 8:39 am

Elgin,

Only in unhappy marriages. In happy ones, the sex is frequent and good.

38 Brendon Carr (Korea Law Blog) June 7, 2009 at 9:52 am

Unlike the Rush Limbaughs (and Brendon Carr’s?) of the world, I wish him success. Having lived abroad for two years now for the first time in my life, I realize that the world needs the U.S., and that for all its faults (and its faults now [cough neo-fascism] are many, a strong U.S. is vital to the rest of the world, even China.

Knowing that the Best. President. EVAR. is likely to louse everything up is not the same as hoping he will do so. Surprise me, Barack, please!

Early returns are double-plus ungood though.

39 Acropolis7 June 7, 2009 at 10:57 am

Did you cry foul while we were digging this financial trap for about 8 plus years?

40 Linkd June 7, 2009 at 10:59 am

Saturday, 5:10 pm, Namsan Ring Road.

I needed eggs.

But this way better. I walked past the super and up to the ring road, craving air, exercise and green spaces. ”I only smoke when I drink.” isn’t much of a compromise when you’re drinking every day, and that’s my life in Haebangchon now. Down there in HBC, after dark.

Now I’m up in the air, the sunlight, thinking cleaner thoughts: I’ve got a wife, a kid – I need to take better care of myself. Grandma Linkd posts photos of my daughter every day, frolicking on green hillsides without a speck of concrete anywhere around, the Rockies beckoning on the horizon. Traveling clockwise from the library to the cable car, I gulp in appreciative lungfuls of relatively clean Namsan air. I stop strollers to coochie-coo babies; I tell mothers how beautiful their little toddlers are; I police the traffic in a crosswalk while a 할머니 crosses. I’m a family man, and that little grin on my face is fixed there because Mrs Linkd’s smiling Skype-hazy image is in my mind with every step. I just learned to Skype a week ago, and I’m a big fan of it, and sunshine, and trees, my wife, and young couples pushing strollers.

5:35 pm, Myung-dong, 되계로
Delicate pretty girls in translucent, airy dresses. Tall and sexy girls in short shorts and bright body-hugging T-shirts. Japanese girls with Navajo braids, promo girls in R-rated space suits. A crushing crowd of girls. No couples in Myung-dong; young women don’t bring their boyfriends here. I plunge in, letting them wash past me like a river of flower petals and long, smooth legs.

But not eyes. I’m invisible, and a little annoyed. In khaki shorts and a golf shirt I’m a bit underdressed, but I’m not bad-looking. I may be 40, but at a glance I could pass for several years younger. But no glances. Nothing. They go past in their multitudes, a vital force of youth and beauty, living in the now, and not a single one of them is checking me out. Maybe, I think, I should cut my hair.

5:50 pm, Myung-dong, 을지로
At the north end of the street, behind KEB, is one of those multi-spout fountains that jets water out of the small plaza according to a timed program. It is ringed by benches, and several drenched children are running about, chasing the constantly-moving geysers. I take a seat among the ajummas and old men. Everyone is watching the ecstatic children play among the water spouts. The scene is tranquil.

Suddenly, the water parts like a curtain. Directly across from me on the other side of the plaza there is a girl, 175cm including the heels. Loitering casually while she talks on the phone, her long, orangey-brown hair sweeps across her shoulders. She’s wearing a belted gray body suit cuffed just below the crotch, charcoal leggings and glittery black CFMBs. Her clothes fit her like a sausage casing, and she is definitely ALL THAT.

I don’t even have to turn my head. Just raising my eyes slightly from the playing children is enough to get away with my blatant act. The ajosshi on the next bench lights a cigarette; I flare my nostrils and breathe in deeply. It smells wonderful.

Epilogue
Traveling counter-clockwise, I made my way back to the ‘Chon, arriving just before dark. The young Canadian guy who moved in downstairs had his housewarming party last night. I spent enjoyable hours chatting with several young women, both foreign and local. I didn’t smoke, but I have a new haircut.

41 Gillian June 7, 2009 at 10:59 am

Wow. The number of absolutely nasty comments about David Carradine’s death leaves me stunned and embarrassed to be a part of the human race right now. Won’t you all feel ashamed if the FBI, who are now involved in the investigation of his death, discover that he didn’t accidently kill himself while engaged in some kinky sex act…..

I guess everyone used up their year’s supply of compassion on Noh Mu-huyn, whom, I am sure, is much more deserving of compassion than David Carradine.

42 SomeguyinKorea June 7, 2009 at 11:43 am

That’s the thing, Gillian. His hands were supposedly tied behind his back. If that’s true, then we can’t rule out murder.

43 R. Elgin June 7, 2009 at 12:23 pm

Only in unhappy marriages. In happy ones, the sex is frequent and good.

No, absolutely not “someguy”.

The therapist disagrees with you most emphatically here. These are not unhappy marriages but couples that are otherwise happy. The unhappiness stems from the lack of sex or intimacy. The therapist merely attempts to discover what is not working and suggests ways to remedy such.

Oddly enough, there was an Oprah Winfrey show on this issue sometime recently (I recall seeing the opening part of her show) wherein the sex therapist made the same observations as the other therapist. The amount of sexless marriages in the U.S. were surprising.

44 R. Elgin June 7, 2009 at 12:28 pm

Also, there is a latent problem with enabling Java on any computer, however, until fixed, all OSX users should *DISABLE* Java in their web browsers (no thanks to Apple — boo!, hiss!). See here for the reasons why. To test for your installed version of Java, check here.

45 Sonagi June 7, 2009 at 12:39 pm

I may be 40, but at a glance I could pass for several years younger. But no glances. Nothing.

Congratulations on reaching the milestone of middle age. It’s better than the alternative. Most of us think we look younger, but real young people aren’t fooled. Hopefull you’ve taken care of the only body you’ll ever get, and you’re not yet thinking of restylane injections.

46 Sonagi June 7, 2009 at 12:41 pm

hopefull – hopefully

47 SomeguyinKorea June 7, 2009 at 1:24 pm

“The unhappiness stems from the lack of sex or intimacy.”

So, by your own admission they are unhappy.

All right then:

Only in unhappy marriages and those that involve dysfunctional Americans (many of which apparently watch Oprah Winfrey).

Happy?

48 Arghaeri June 7, 2009 at 1:54 pm

“In happy ones, the sex is frequent and good.”

though, not necessarily with each other ;-) hehe.

seriously, from many people I’ve met I’d say frequently they’re happy in companionship and that sex is not a major factor in day to day life with each other…basically as Elgin says above.

49 NetizenKim June 7, 2009 at 2:29 pm

#40

Mr Linkd attempts literature! A poetic soul trapped in the body of a bean counter.

I recently attended commencement ceremonies at a small liberal arts college in Connecticut. The funny thing about commencement speeches, I’ve noticed, is that they are largely wasted on their intended audiences. You cannot properly understand them unless you’ve spent some time in the Real World. I heard some fine speeches.

They say that youth is wasted on the young. I say that wisdom and experience is wasted on the old. The challenge of middle age is to combine the wisdom and experience with the vitality, passion, and idealism of youth.

Sonagi:
Hopefully you’ve taken care of the only body you’ll ever get, and you’re not yet thinking of restylane injections.

And I also say that a life’s worth of accumulated wisdom and experience is wasted on the dead. I believe in eternal life and that we should live, even as mortals, as if though there is no end.

50 Sperwer June 7, 2009 at 3:59 pm

blah, blah, blah. And I also say that a life’s worth of accumulated wisdom and experience is wasted on the dead. I believe in eternal life and that we should live, even as mortals, as if though there is no end.

I read on the cover of The National Enquirer next to the checkout at the supermarket that you’ve scored a gig peddling your inspiration on Oprah. Good luck with that.

51 Sperwer June 7, 2009 at 4:22 pm

Hopefull[y]… you’re not yet thinking of restylane injections.

You gotta love their slogan: ” True [sic] beauty doesn’t lie.”

They obviously went to the Goebbels, Hitler & Stalin school of rhetoric.

I’ll go with the Tom Waits approach:

“I’m gonna make myself pretty for you.
I don’t need no make-up; I got real scars;
I got hair on my chest; I look good without a shirt.
Well, I don’t lose my composure in a high-speed chase;
My friends say I’m ugly, I got a masculine face.”

—Going Out West

As lauren hutton demonstrated it’s the flaw that creates the frisson.

52 Brendon Carr (Korea Law Blog) June 7, 2009 at 5:33 pm

As lauren hutton demonstrated it’s the flaw that creates the frisson.

Thus it is explained why Sperwer won’t shave his ears, and why I won’t do any sit-ups. It would seem Sperwer’s doing sit-ups for the both of us anyway, and I assure you all that I meticulously groom the astonishingly-multiplying array of hairs that are coming from various parts of my ears.

53 Sperwer June 7, 2009 at 6:43 pm

You’re out of date, BC; now I shave my whole body or, to be more precise, someone shaves it for me; if I were a kung fu grasshooper, I guess I’d go for the full body wax (ouch)

54 Brendon Carr (Korea Law Blog) June 7, 2009 at 6:47 pm

Yikes.

55 jefferyhodges June 7, 2009 at 7:55 pm

I think that this is the appropriate moment to bring us all back to reality, namely, how I met “My Beautiful Wife.”

Jeffery Hodges

* * *

56 SomeguyinKorea June 7, 2009 at 10:44 pm

“You’re out of date, BC; now I shave my whole body or, to be more precise, someone shaves it for me; if I were a kung fu grasshooper, I guess I’d go for the full body wax (ouch)”

Shave your whole body? I doubt you’re an Olympic swimmer or a pro bodybuilder…Is your name Pink by any chance?

57 SomeguyinKorea June 7, 2009 at 11:27 pm

A Thai tabloid had printed what it claims to be a picture of David Carradine’s body in his hotel room. The hands of the man in the picture are tied above his head. Still looks very suspicious to me. I’ll let you find the picture on your own.

58 Sonagi June 8, 2009 at 12:35 am

I don’t think David Carradine is the man in the photo. First of all, the grainy image is clearly not from a digital camera, so it was almost certainly not recent image taken either by hotel staff or by police investigators. Second, the hotel room in the photo does not look like a 5-star hotel room. Third, the man in the photo has thick, black hair. Recent images of David Carradine depict him with stringy, light hair.

59 Sonagi June 8, 2009 at 12:35 am

…not a recent image…

60 baduk June 8, 2009 at 1:04 am

John from Daejeon,

Don’ t you pin it on LMB if it happens. It is all China. Yes, China is behind it all. I know what I am talking about. Ever since 1950s, China is getting pay back from NK. As a buffer zone against the US. Now, China wants to use NK to stir things up in the region. It wants “the protection money” from the US, SK and Japan.

About Carradin.

The whores down the street in Bangkok are so discouraged. Here was the white dude from the State, came to their city and tried to enjoy himself by himself? It is like a white to coming a Chinatown and starving to death among the street full of restaurants.

It was a big slap in their faces and the service they provide.

And, the dude did it wrong. He died in the process of giving pleasure to himself. Going back to the analogy, it is akin to a guy who tries to stir fry vegetable in a room next to the restaurant and catch fire and dies.

Let a professional do it for you. If you don’t know how to do it properly, read a book or ask a person who has done it before.

Ignorance kills.

61 SomeguyinKorea June 8, 2009 at 1:37 am

Sonagi,

Exactly.

62 abcdefg June 8, 2009 at 8:15 am

I watched Fireproof, starring Kirk Cameron, this afternoon. I laughed, I cried – despite the bad acting and all. And by all, I’m talking about the manipulative sentimentality of its story and the Christian faith attached to it.

Fireproof stars Kirk Cameron, of “Growing Pains” 80s sitcom fame, and recently best known for those “bananas disprove evolution” ministry videos on youtube. He plays a fireman who has marriage problems, is on the brink of divorce, is addicted to internet porn (and of course he is; no other vice exists for Christians these days!) , and needs to find Jesus in order to transform and renew his love for his wife. In other words, for couples trying to save their marriage, nothing else will make husband love you again, but maybe God will implant such a love, the love for a wife will be a religious love that starts first with the love for Jesus and then trickles down to the spouse by principle – in other words, an empty, “super moral” love.

Watching the movie was like watching a propaganda film intended for cultists. But that’s not why I enjoyed it. Fireproof is a cheesy, sentimental tear-jerker with a religious message that errs and is parasitic on natural emotions. I enjoyed it because it provides such a childishly simple, happy story, one that involves elements of personal growth and transformation, redemption through family and friends, and commitment to love in marriage. All the stuff about Jesus was quite easy to snip out.

I wonder about the folks who view this film, the “Godlywood” sort of film. Who watches and is actually inspired to become a Christian for it? Or is the point of the movie for Christians to become better Christians? Or is the point of the movie to sell books to Christian couples having problems with their marriages?

Either way, it’s all fiction.

Fireproof may be found here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHHFcT7t2sA

And in case you’ve missed it, one of Kirk Cameron’s ministry videos can be found here, entitled “The Atheist’s Nightmare”:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfv-Qn1M58I

63 dogbertt June 8, 2009 at 8:17 am

Jeebus, I’m surprised YOU watched it. From the ads, I figured it was one to avoid.

64 Brendon Carr (Korea Law Blog) June 8, 2009 at 9:02 am

Fireproof had a production budget of US$500,000 (I bet that showed in the film, too) and grossed $33MM at the box office, to say nothing of the $29MM DVD sales. It’s been a wild home run for the treacly Christian message set, and a bonanza for the producers Sherwood Baptist Church of Albany, Georgia.

The church also produced an earlier, even cheaper (!) film called Facing the Giants, which earned US$10MM in box office and US$20MM in DVD sales on a US$100,000 production budget.

Normally, the distribution company gets half of gross revenues in box office and DVD sales. Sherwood Baptist Church has raised a US$45MM war chest for whatever good works they have planned. Get used to these kinds of movies: You can make almost 100 more Fireproofs with the pile of cash they have.

65 dokdoforever June 8, 2009 at 12:28 pm

Hangul is making a comeback.. in India of all places. Although for some, Hangul is an emotional issue. One interviewee even remarked: “Today, when I think of the hangul, I cry.” Kind of sad.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8080079.stm

66 Mizar5 June 8, 2009 at 12:37 pm

The leftists are stirring up the shit again, using Noe’s suicide as justification for their reactionary agenda. Sound familiar to those who saw the death 2 schoolgirls cynically used to stir up shit against the U.S.?

Funny how Korean leftists stand for nothing but simply against everything. Oh I know, some will say they stand for “freedom” – sure, freedom to incite violence and confusion, ie. anarchy. And that is precisely what the Korean left are – principal-less anarchists.

67 abcdefg June 8, 2009 at 1:06 pm

“Get used to these kinds of movies: You can make almost 100 more Fireproofs with the pile of cash they have.”

Surely a case of garbage in, garbage out.

But to be fair, no self-respecting Christian would find in these movies any ounce of nutriment. But it seems a good majority do, in America at least. I imagine many female, church-going kyopos lurve Fireproof and are waiting on the limited edition Blue-ray DVD!

I was wondering. Why don’t Intelligent Design proponents apply their thinking to EVERYTHING in the natural world? Not just to speciation or to the subject of the origin of life or ultimate origins of the universe? Then I realized it’s because they can’t. Or they don’t because it’s all been done before, by Creationists or by religous people generally. Indeed, the raison detre of religion, of the mythmaking part of religion, was to explain those very things which science now explains. It’s the reason why in the aftermath of the Enlightenment, we still find ourselves in the haze of frequent science vs religion debates. Obviously.

IDists argue from ignorance, that is their m.o., and it works thus: If there is an explanatory gap in the institutionalized epistemes that be, then, the IDist will nag, only a God can fill that gap. But so many of such gaps have been filled, and what’s left?

We know a lot about our world, so God need not be invoked for explanation. But imagine. Before we had proper geological theories that accounted for the formation of mountains on a continent, imagine what an IDist should say about the Himalayas and Mount Everest. These grand structures didn’t form by the process of plate techtonics, he’d nag. No, the massive, beautiful Himalyas were formed by the abrupt intervention of an extra-natural agent, a “god”, or, more visually, by the touch of his thick calloused finger, the finger of the Mighty Jew God! The mountains came about post-”poof!” Apparently, this is God in the mode of Bob Ross by blank canvas, adding pretty moutains here and more, even prettier, mountains there, fully formed, creeks, crevices, and fossils- all modes of future sport and adventure included too. Only God could move so much rock in such little time, the IDist would claim — a massive blow against skeptics, unbelievers, sinners, and thinkers, for sure.

IDists try to seperate themselves from the Creationists of the past, and it’s no wonder; they are one and the same. They are reincarnations, ghosts bound to an epiphany like the one in that movie with Bruce Willis.

- Speaking of which, of the Sixth Sense, and Hollywood, I find it odd that there now should be such a genre as “Christian film”. Most of Hollywood for years, since its inception, had been pro-Christian. At what point did it shift? A totally non-evangelical film like Sixth Sense has probably done more for Christianity than a film like Fireproof will ever. It’s in our veins, the blood of the American spirit that our pop culture is made of, that we be Christian. Even when a Jew like Steven Spielberg made movies about Holy Grails and African American slaves, one couldn’t help but notice the overwhelming pro-Jesus sentiment in them. Yet all of such Christianizing would melt seamlessly in the background and foreground of everything that was familiar to the average American.

I blame it on Japan. No, I blame it on the internet and porn. No, I propose the thesis that the decline of religion in America is due solely to cartoons produced by Seth Mcfarlane. It’s all true. It’s all his fault. And maybe Mel Gibson’s too. The Passion was a truly divisive, marginalizing, and incredibly dissappointing movie. No doubt, we have a few Catholic sops here who are major fans.

68 cmm June 9, 2009 at 11:19 am

Brendon** – any recommendation for a good, English-speaking lawyer/law firm to handle a small civil suit?

**or Sperwer or Dram_man or dogbertt or anyone else who is/was a lawyer in Seoul recently.

69 Brendon Carr (Korea Law Blog) June 9, 2009 at 11:46 am

Not really. Your request is for three characteristics: Good, English-speaking, and cheap. In the Korean legal market you only get to pick — at best — two of those characteristics. My recommendation is be prepared to dump “English-speaking” from your requirements first.

70 seoulmilk June 9, 2009 at 1:17 pm

i was on matt robinson’s facebook page to get an update and i was disappointed by one of the administrators turning the focus of the unfortunate situation into blaming korea for his condition. what’s the point of posting pics of the “dirty” hospital? some of the commentators want to report this situation to US media to make korea look bad. why? isn’t that the same short sightedness people complain about koreans? although much praise should be shown to matt’s friends, they are not doing any good to the expat community in general by even discussing the possibility of fingerpointing korea. surely, some will take sides and matt may be the ultimate loser because people may blame everything on matt. further, some will argue that he’s lucky this happened in korea because of the differences in the health care costs in korea and in the US. one particular administrator and many commentators may have a big heart, but they lack foresight. koreans may even aruge, “we provided good care at a relatively low cost and this is all we get?” just saying.

71 Brendon Carr (Korea Law Blog) June 9, 2009 at 1:36 pm

Fireproof had a production budget of US$500,000 (I bet that showed in the film, too) and grossed $33MM at the box office, to say nothing of the $29MM DVD sales. It’s been a wild home run for the treacly Christian message set, and a bonanza for the producers Sherwood Baptist Church of Albany, Georgia.

Thanks to this thread, I watched Fireproof on Youtube yesterday. Objectively speaking, Sherwood Baptist Church made a heck of a movie for its $500,000. Yes, some (most?) of the performances were wooden, and the dialogue was not Mamet by any stretch of the imagination, but the thing is — Fireproof holds your attention for two full hours. And nobody could sit through that and not come out of it wanting to make an effort to be a better person.

I did not find the religiosity of the film to be least bit objectionable. Basically, the message was that the Kirk Cameron character had to stop being so selfish, and that there were injunctions in Scripture — wisdom that’s been with us thousands of years — that could help him. What’s wrong with that? Why always sneer at the Christians?

72 mechyotda June 9, 2009 at 7:22 pm

If any of you lawyers out there know of a good, competent, and reputable real estate lawyer, (preferrably one with experience dealing in cases in which the government tries to “buy” a person’s land for less than half the market price) any recommendations would be much appreciated.

73 tbonetylr June 9, 2009 at 7:59 pm

“Thanks to this thread, I watched Fireproof on Youtube yesterday. And nobody could sit through that and not come out of it wanting to make an effort to be a better person.”

I highly doubt YOU of all people are any better of a person! Unless, for example you are now able to forgo your typical “GODDAMN” remarks and trashing of Native English Teachers.

On another note, CNN is up to their typical puff reporting on S. Korea. This time it’s Eunice Yoon in a video report about Myeong Sung Church and the financial uncertainty of one congregate. I think Eunice Yoon and/or Sohn Jie-ae go to that church when in town.
http://snackfeed.com/videos/detail/eb8b4a62-a50f-102c-8790-00304897c9c6/Praying-for-recovery?_s=s

74 Linkd June 9, 2009 at 8:17 pm

seoulmilk, I’m in full agreement. The whole page is embarrassingly negative, and seems to reflect the ideas of what north americans expect hospitals to be like in other countries BEFORE they travel (my uncle wouldn’t come to my wedding, in Thailand, in 2005 because of SARS. He said “I don’t want to end up in a hospital in China!!”.

Baby Linkd was born there, incidentally, and I was happy with everything but the food. But that’s no biggy, with so many take-away options just across the street (admittedly, though, we had a private room).

75 Linkd June 9, 2009 at 8:19 pm

[Smacks forehead] 2003, I mean. I know I’m gonna be one of those guys who forgets his anniversary someday…

76 Linkd June 9, 2009 at 8:28 pm

How to fix financial television. (Barry Ritholtz, author of Bailout Nation).

77 abcdefg June 9, 2009 at 11:05 pm

The Christian elements in Fireproof were no more and no less objectionable than any film supporting any religion. The film could have been about Raelians or Muslims or Scientology, or any wacky, ill-fated cult. That said, there is nothing special about the criticism given for these films and groups. They are criticized for the same reason any thing is criticized. And they are criticized in proportion to their relevance or visibility.

BTW, if anyone walked away from a childish drama like Fireproof and felt like they wanted to be a better person for it, then they’d have to be about 11 years old or the emotional equivalent of one. That’s like a girl watching Boys Before Flowers on KBS and wanting to be a better teenager for it. Obviously, good taste and wisdom and all that are relative.

78 dokdoforever June 10, 2009 at 3:18 am

The French ‘Freezer Lady”s court case has just begun.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8090556.stm

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