A couple of days ago, Ye Olde Chosun ran an interview with actress Jeon Ji-hyeon — who we’re also quite partial to here at Chez Marmot — discussing her upcoming film, “Blood: The Last Vampire.”
Note sure what the film has to do with “Ghost in the Shell” (which, coincidentally, I really liked, being a fan of cyberpunk), but rather than trouble yourself with the details, check out the trailer:
Oh yeah!
I must say, her English pronunciation was better than I thought it would be, too.
{ 101 comments… read them below or add one }
Wonderful! Another Korean acting Japanese to break into Western popularity!
Two things:
1) I’d wish Koreans would stop trying to get a head in this world by pretending to be Japanese and…
2) I’d wish the pop cultures of many Western countries (particularly the U.S.) would have more knowledge about Asian cultures so Chinese and Korean actors wouldn’t have to pretend to be Japanese.
I hear you, Wangkon. But something tells me aspiring Korean stars are not sorry about the roles they’re getting.
Besides, have you seen how well John Cho can go from Korean-American to Japanese-American? Watching him in Star Trek, if I didn’t know better, I totally would have thought he was Japanese-American. Cho is just that good. It’s nothing at all like when Robert De Niro played a Polish-American in “Deer Hunter.” Ha! Like anyone would believe for one moment that De Niro was Polish-American! He should take a few tips from Cho.
Keep wishing, Wangkon… BaeDoona is now a Japanese actress.. Who cares? Taiwan’s national kitty is Hello Kitty.. and as I asked before Japundit personal has 90 percent Chinese women dressed up as Japanese women…It’s the same old same old.
@Gfalloon, I haven’t seen John Cho yet in Star Trek but I think J.Cho didn’t see Sulu as a Japanese-American role…He said in an interview that growing up, he thought that Sulu was one cool character who was just an Asian American doing his thing, and not some Japanese, or Chinese doing the
Sorry, here is that John Cho interview
Of course, Sulu is not a Japanese name either. Roddenberry named the character after an island in the Philippines, iirc.
Also, you cannot blame Jeon’s casting on Hollywood or other stupid westerners. That was Bill Kong’s idea. Kong’s Edko Film was the main production company (and most of the ‘real’ producers on Blood are from the Hong Kong film scene)
Thanks Yuna. Very good interview. I was definitely being facetious and having a chuckle at Wangkon’s expense (sorry).
However, I’d also like to see more “Korean-ness” going on in Hollywood as well. The whole world should know how awesome Park Chan-uk is. But as long as Korea allows people like Shim Hyung-rae to appoint themselves the emissary of Hanguk cinema, it’s not going to happen.
Hypothetical question: if Park Chan-uk was going to direct a big-budget movie intended for international release, would it be okay if it starred Chow Yun Fat?
“Another Korean acting Japanese to break into Western popularity!”
Right, and Americans aren’t supposed to play Shakespeare and the Rolling Stones, the Beatles and Eric Clapton? Were they trying to sound American in order to make it in North America? I suppose you also think that vampires aren’t mythological creatures, too.
Lighten up, she’s acting.
Crap…
Correction:
“Right, and Americans aren’t supposed to play Shakespeare and the Rolling Stones, the Beatles and Eric Clapton were they trying to sound American in order to make it in North America? I suppose you also think that vampires aren’t mythological creatures…”
Memoirs of a Geisha is perhaps the worst recent case of spectacularly misguided ethnic miscasting. I like Zhang Zi-Yi and especially Michelle Yeoh as much or more than the next guy; but to cast lean, athletic Chinese martial arts stars in the roles of plump, pampered geisha was just full of fail. Gong Li was the only major actress who looked like she belonged anywhere near that film; but even her role should have gone to an ethnic Japanese such as Tamlyn Tomita, so intertwined in Japanese-ness is the particular subject matter.
Haha, Sulu’s introduction scene in the new Star Trek was hilarious. Actually, I think everyone kicked ass in that movie except that guy who plays McCoy.
The factor that makes me annoyed about Asian actors being pigeonholed into mostly Japanese/sometimes Chinese roles is that it really demonstrates/reinforces the centuries-old perception of Asia = Japan/(to a lesser extent) China. It’s really demeaning to Asians and Asian Americans (including Japanese/Japanese Americans) when the identity of the groups are so vested in their respective unique cultures and history.
I have my doubts as to how successful this movie would be. For people who don’t know who Jun Ji Hyun is or what the movie is based on (aka vast majority of the moviegoing Americans), the trailer would look like a cheap Blade knockoff with some “Crouching Tiger” mixed in.
Amen, brother.
So, you complain there aren’t enough Koreans in Hollywood films and then complain when one gets a role because she isn’t playing a Korean character?
Would you have also pigeonholed Omar Sharif, Anthony Quinn, and Ben Kinglsey?
Weikuboy,
You do realize that most Hollywood movies are neither historically accurate nor particularly artistic? Casting actors based on their ability to sell tickets is nothing new. How many Hollywood stars get roles based on their acting chops only? A very few.
I’d say the bigger problem is that the novel that movie was based upon was praised by critics for its accuracy when, in fact, it is far from it.
…far from being historically accurate.
Not defending the casting, just attacking the hypocrisy of the argument.
Actually, I thought he was good in that role. Better than he was in “Doom,” anyway. The only one I didn’t like was Chekov.
Nope, don’t recall saying that. It’s pretty cool that Koreans are making their ways in Hollywood films, but I never complained about the lack of Korean (or Asian) actors/actresses in Hollywood.
Hmm, maybe it’s because I’m not too familiar with the original series (I only saw the movies). He just sounded a bit awkward with his lines in my ears.
Hey I’m happy for the “progress.” Unlike a movie like the Maltese Falcon, where Joel Cairois the mysterious guy from the Orient (Hong Kong actually, as I remember) with a horrible Asian English accent, at least now Asians are cast as Asians.
@someguy
For being a gentleman who lives in Korea (or so your ID says), I’m surprised you haven’t picked up on why it broils many people that Chinese actresses play Japanese roles. Or Koreans get cast as Japanese.
Sure, Eric Clapton may have American-ized his voice, but could you imagine the British coming to mimic American culture and mannerisms, say circa 1830s? And instead of the mainstream of “Americans” being essentially immigrants from England, the “American” perspective was coming from the Native American perspective (to make this analogy work you have to imagine that the NA’s speak English)?
Maybe that analogy isn’t rock solid, but there was colonization and outright pillaging and raping going on just 60 years ago. Nevermind that there was never the onslaught of immigration from China to Japan or Korea to China or whatever, that essentially the people in one country have lineage to another, like many religious/political dissendents in the States had ties back to the UK.
That said, the U.S. had a democracy and the UK at that time had a royal system, so certainly there is some similarities, but again, think about how the “acceptance” would be circa 1830s. Your analogy, even accounting for our “modern” World, needs to be couched somewhat. The head-on similarities aren’t quite fair.
t-song,
You missed my point.
Tell me, how do South Korean feel about her being in that movie? I get the impression that the ones who feel offended are the ones who bring their own cultural bias to the discussion.
A Korean actress playing the role of a Japanese in a movie is not nearly as offensive to South Koreans as you would think. This isn’t the 1830′s, or the 1940′s for that matter. The average person is far better educated now. Most people are able to recognize the difference between reality and fiction (acting).
Face it, American race politics is a bore to anyone who isn’t American.
We must be talking to different South Koreans then. Most Koreans I know are happy JJH is breaking through to the States, but wish it wasn’t for a role as a character from Japanese manga.
I think it’s accurate to say most Koreans would rather see JJH acting in America in a Japanese role than not at all, but they’d rather see it in a Korean story. That said, I don’t think JJH in Blood is not as egregious as all the horrible, accented Chinese actors playing geishas. That was the most awkward movie of all time.
I don’t know the European dynamic, but is it common for Germans to play French roles, or for the Italians to appear in Spanish cinema? I think that’s a better analogy of China/ROK/Japan than UK versus USA where we both speak the same language and can trace much our roots back there as a country, etc.
Weikuboy, You do realize that most Hollywood movies are neither historically accurate nor particularly artistic?
Are you saying Jesus wasn’t a San Francisco hippie circa 1967?
“I don’t know the European dynamic, but is it common for Germans to play French roles, or for the Italians to appear in Spanish cinema?”
Yes, it’s common. Many European movies are international productions.
In case you want names: Phillipe Noiret, Max Von Sydow, Klaus Maria Brandauer, Olivier Martinez, Jean Reno, …
Do I need to mention all the Europeans who pass off as Americans in Hollywood movies?
“We must be talking to different South Koreans then. Most Koreans I know are happy JJH is breaking through to the States, but wish it wasn’t for a role as a character from Japanese manga.”
I thin you can see that there’s a difference between wishing and being offended by it.
Correction…
I think you can see that there’s…
Oh Oh, I have unique culture, me have unique history, ooh ooh ooh, and language, we have words, ooh ooh ooh, I Korea, I unique culture, we have four season, we care education and family, ooh ooh ooh, we in America and parent from Korea, we have unique place and culture, ooh ooh ooh.
“I’d wish Koreans would stop trying to get a head in this world by pretending to be Japanese….”
Hmmm, I was unaware that pretending to be Japanese helps in getting BJs
Hey WangKon,
Have you watched Blood: The Last Vampire, in all 40 minutes of its glory? Her character isn’t even Japanese. It is set in an American airforce base in Japan but she is not Japanese, there is even an old photo of her from Europe. Although her name sounds Japanese, “Saya Otonashi” her character is supposed to be Europeanish in a vampire kind of way.
This movie has a creepy Quentin Tarantino wet fetish dream feel to it. “Kill Bill” introduced us to the angry blonde bitch who wields a samurai sword. This movie reboots the angry Asian girl in school uniform wielding a samurai sword, itself a throwback to “Kill Bill V2″. In the surreal vision of Hollywood, everyone (blondes, schoolgirls, Tom Cruise) gets to play with samurai swords…except for samurai. What’s next? A schizophrenic and homeless Person of Color who is expert with a samurai sword? No, actually, make that a cello. When Political Correctness collides with Hollywood….predictable wonders never cease. Meanwhile, Hollywood continues to ignore the fact that normal Asian guys, in fact, have dicks. That rarity ( just a normal Asian guy with a dick) on the mainstream screen (ie. in a leading role or any role involving romance) will be more daring than anything cooked up by Quentin Tarantino’s fevered imagination.
Geisha weren’t broad-shoulded and lean, but they weren’t exactly plump either and sure as hell didn’t have D-cup silicone mams like Gong Li, whose stripperesque fake boobs still can’t disguise her thick waist. Geisha were petite and delicate. None of the three women looked like they belonged in that film.
Well, NK, I’d gladly pay $10 to see your dick on the big screen.
You guys are being rock-stupid about the nationality thing. Why is this only an issue for Asians? White people play any role. White foreigners pretend to be white Americans, and white Americans pretend to be white foreigners (this extends well beyond English-speaking countries; there are plenty of French, Germans, etc. that do this). White Americans of German descent pretend to have French descent. Or pretend to actually be French. A guy named Ryan Gosling played a Jew. Jews play non-Jews. Viggo Mortenson played a Russian in Eastern Promises. He also played a Gondorian in LOTR. Elijah Wood played a Ukrainian-American. Hispanics do this too: Mexicans play Puerto Ricans, Cubans play Spanish, Argentines play Panamanians, etc. Nobody cares about any of this, it’s par for the course. Whites and Hispanics, whatever. Even black folks do it; Don Cheadle played a Rwandan is “Hotel Rwanda,” but I’ll bet the ranch that he ain’t got a drop of Rwandan in him. Forrest Whitaker plays a Ugandan; he ain’t Ugandan. In other word, no one gives a flying fuck, ever. But then you have one Korean play a Japanese, or a Viet play a Chinese, or a Taiwanese play a Thai, and everybody gets their panties in a fuckin’ wad. It’s called ‘acting,’ folks. It’s pretending. That means you can pretend to have a job you don’t really have, to have skills you don’t really have, and to be a nationality or ethnicity that you aren’t. THAT’S WHAT ACTING IS. Why should it be different for Asians? Memoirs of a Geisha was not a good movie. It had a lot of problems. But the fact that all the geisha-dul were played by Chinese was not one of them. All you folks probably like to whine about racism, etc., but what about restricting acting roles because you aren’t the right ethnicity? Esp. in an all English film like Geisha, did it ever fucking matter that Gong Li is not actually Japanese? No! Get the fuck over it!
Lady Sonagi at #18:
“Geisha weren’t broad-shoulded and lean, but they weren’t exactly plump either and sure as hell didn’t have D-cup silicone mams like Gong Li, whose stripperesque fake boobs still can’t disguise her thick waist.”
You sure Gong Li’s is fake? Given that she’s a bit more plump than your usual Asian babes, I thought it might be real. They also seem to sag, which is another indicator that they may be real.
I think the younger version of Michiko Hada (the version that we saw in “The Mystery of Rampo” would’ve made a good geisha.
“You guys are being rock-stupid about the nationality thing. Why is this only an issue for Asians? White people play any role”
It’s because in America and the West, unlike with whites, Asians actually deal with derogatory bullshit that is ascribed to pariticular nationalities. If Americans reserve a particular set of insults for Chinese, then it should be relevant to know that the Asian being insulted isn’t Chinese.
Well, now we know what Mr. Choe will be wondering about the next time he gets lucky and cuddles up with a lady friend.
Colontos,
Come on now, you answered your own question. Koreans CAN’T play any role!!! Matter of fact, they can barely play themselves!! It’s frustrating for the little man, who feels like he deserves a chance. We deserve a chance. Surely you can understand. Have a little sympathy, for goodness sake.
lol@fist–cute.
@Some
Just because Europeans have passed themselves off as Americans means nothing to me. I don’t particularly see how it’s relevant.
Anyways, I think it’ll be interesting to see how JJH’s English is, but outside of that, I can’t think of a reason to see this film. I wonder if she has to speak Japanese at all in the movie; anyone know?
She may have had them removed. Her chest looks deflated and sagging in this 2007 Cannes photo compared to this 2004 photo. I don’t think a padded push-up bra alone made her chest pop out because she looked busty in other films from earlier in the decade. You can see the definite shape of the implants here.
I think we should get Sonagi a new nickname…. How about Boobetective?
How old is Gong Li anyways? 40?
1965… so 44.
Lady Sonagi #34,
The first two photos don’t work, and I am not sure if the last photo is persuasive.
WangKon936 at #36,
Gong Li was born in 1965–the same year as 전인화. It was an annus mirabilis year for iconic East Asian beauties
JW at #32 says:
“Well, now we know what Mr. Choe will be wondering about the next time he gets lucky and cuddles up with a lady friend.”
Actually, it’s pretty easy to tell someone has fake tits once you get to the “cuddle” stage.
While I am not sure if Machiavelli is right to claim that touching is usually more accurate than seeing (see, e.g., Genesis 27), it is certainly more accurate when it comes to these matters
And Gong Li stopped being hot after Raise the Red Lantern. She was washed up by Miami Vice.
@WJC, JW and Sonagi
When it comes to testing the validity of a female’s breasts, I go by the incredibly salient and knowledged words of one Andy Stitzer:
Back in the day (late 90′s) Gong Li was hot, but she always had this weird overbite that put me a little off.
Whoa, the correct term is not overbite but underbite. My bad.
“What’s next? A schizophrenic and homeless Person of Color who is expert with a samurai sword? ”
Afro Samurai (1977)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6708706375975545238
“Never the white knight, baby.”
Ninja: Silent Assassin (1987)
Yes, one of Godfrey Ho’s “classic” ninja movies.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yd_1HJbMngE
Ghost Dog (1999)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQg_taC0guo&feature=related
The Black Ninja (2003)
http://movies.nytimes.com/movie/205699/The-Black-Ninja/trailers
Afro Samurai (2009)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iPHMAyfR4k
Re Sonagi @28: No argument here. “Delicate” or “soft” would’ve been a better word than “plump”. I was looking for a contrast to “lean.” In any event I certainly wasn’t calling Gong Li or Tamlyn Tomita “plump” (just in case they are reading this and might have a fetish for low-quality English teachers).
Colontos @29 – ‘Memoirs of a Geisha’ was not a good movie. It had a lot of problems. But the fact that all the geisha-dul were played by Chinese was not one of them.
Please understand, my criticism of that film is aesthetic, not political. Geisha (the movie, but also the profession) is essentially about Japanese beauty; is it not? Featuring actresses who actually resemble geisha might have been a good idea. In most films I couldn’t care less about the nationality or the ethnicity of the actors. But in that case it seriously compromised the work.
Consider The Girl with the Pearl Earring, a pretty little jewel-box of a film. We know the Vermeer painting. Scarlett Johannsson was a perfect choice to play the subject of that famous work. Gong Li and Tamlyn Tomita are two of the most beautiful actresses to ever grace the screen imho; but either would have been wrong for that role, regardless of their acting talents.
For a small number of roles in a small number of films, ethnicity does matter. But nationality and the politics of Northeast Asian ethnocentrism are not what I’m talking about, and don’t interest me. Even in Geisha an ethnic Chinese or Korean or Mongolian (from whatever modern nation in the world) might have worked, provided only that her features were as described by the Lady Sonagi.
@WK
Hmmm, I didn’t notice. I gotta be honest: I wasn’t looking much at her mouth!
Salma Hayek complained when Jennifer Lopez got the lead role in the movie Selena even though Jennifer bears a strong resemblance to the singer, especially in build. It’s ironic for Salma to complain since she herself is ethnically half-Lebanese.
I guess you haven’t spent much time in New York, or anywhere in Amerca. There are very specific insults for Irish, Italians, French, Canadians, Russians, Serbs, Jews, Sicilians (as distinct from Italians, in terms of insults), and probably others.
As usual, JW, you have missed my point by a mile. If you say that Asians in general and Koreans specifically should get more roles in Hollywood, you have my full agreement. What I’m saying is that the nationality of the actor should not play a role vis a vis the nationality of the character played. In other words, Koreans can have as many roles as they want (I’m all for it!), but not all, or any, of those roles need to be of Korean characters. If they play Japanese, Chinese, Vietnamese, whatever, a role is a role. If we restrict Koreans to only playing Korean roles, then you’ll see less of them in Hollywood, not more. So in other words, you agree with me, but you are too dopey to know it. I say this with love, JW.
See, that’s my whole point. Why is it relevant for Asians, but not for white folks, black folks, Hispanic folks, etc.?
“I guess you haven’t spent much time in New York, or anywhere in Amerca. There are very specific insults for Irish, Italians, French, Canadians, Russians, Serbs, Jews, Sicilians (as distinct from Italians, in terms of insults), and probably others.”
Jews, yes. Jews sure know about those insults. Try casting Aryans as Jews in Schindler’s list.
Irish? Maybe an occasional alcoholism joke. But the Irish have their St. Patrick’s day. Everybody loves Irish. But I’m sure at some point in America’s past, a WASP would not would have wished to be confused for an Irish man.
Sicilians? What part of America did you grow up in? Little Italy?
Anyway, the expat or former expat should understand where I’m coming from. Don’t Canadians in Korea wear “Migukin aneeimnida” t shirts? If you see it now, try to fold and multiply that problem a few times over and then you’ll really understand.
I figure East Asians in America are tired of the indiscriminatory ignorance that perpetuates the shit they still have to deal with in their lives.
More correctly, Japanese movie makers are increasingly taking Korean audience seriously. They are using more Korean actors than before, it’s good sign. However, that movie is total waste. Don’t watch it, it’s one of worse movie ever made. I rather go for “The thirst”, another vampire movie from Korea than this one.
Salma Hayek complained when Jennifer Lopez got the lead role in the movie ‘Selena’ even though Jennifer bears a strong resemblance to the singer, especially in build.
Great casting choice; great American film.
I think we have a miscommunication here, someguy, hardyandtiny (you made yourself look like a jackass in that post, btw.), and colontos. My beef with the status quo is that Asian actors are being pigeonholed into Japanese/Chinese roles, which reinforces the ignorant notion that Asians = Japanese/Chinese and is generally a belittling viewpoint to all Asians. This is especially true when those roles are more than likely saturated with other stereotypes and archetypes associated with Asians/Asian Americans. And like it or not, “Asia” has myriads of distinct cultures that cannot be logically grouped into an imaginary category. When a Korean visit Thailand or a Chinese visit Japan, they’ll feel like they’re in a foreign country with very different culture and society.
This isn’t “Korea!~ FUCK YEAH!” issue. It’s all about how perception of Asians/Asian Americans in U.S. is being molded into something that is disturbingly similar to what hardy wrote up there (hopefully in sardonic tone).
I mean a surprisingly good film about a great American story.
The Canadians wear those shirts because Canadians are incapable of doing or saying anything that is not a direct or implied comparison with America. A Canadian’s definition of Canada is “not America.” A shirt, therefore, that reads “I am not American” is exactly, on all levels, identical to a shirt that reads “I am Canadian.” No one but a Canadian would ever think of or wear a shirt like that.
This is what I’m saying. A role is just a role. I think this argument has no merit when it comes to movie roles. On a broader level, of course you have a point. When some ignorant folks see an Asian, they wonder (and sometimes ask!) “Is that a Japanese or a Chinese?” as if it were a binary choice.
Two points on that:
1) (and this relates to movie roles as well) Like it or not, Chinese (including Taiwan, Hong Kong, etc.) and Japanese together do in fact represent the vast majority of Asian people, and probably a majority of them in a lot of locations abroad. By the numbers, if a person asks Japanese or Chinese, odds are that they’re right. Just like when a Korean sees a white person in Korea, they assume that they’re American -and they’re usually right – Canadian t-shirt slogans notwithstanding. So on one hand, you have to give these people the benefit of the doubt, which leads me to…
2) Most people are dumb! I think this is a major point missed by so many on the blog. We on this blog represent a sort of intellectual elite. Most of us here have lived in/experienced two or more cultures. Many of us speak a few languages. We have knowledge of at least two distinct ways of life, and by necessity we are well acquainted with Asian politics, history, geography, etc. Most of us are also educated and have a 4-year degree or higher. We are the elite. You simply cannot expect the same level of awareness from the rank-and-file! You cannot expect every asshole in the mall in Oklahoma to be aware of Korean culture and its differences from Chinese and Japanese culture. Most folks are ignorant. This applies to Korea, too. When a white person in Korea receives yells of “Hello” or “American,” these are usually not well-educated, well-traveled people. This is Joe American or Chul-soo Korean, who has never left the country, didn’t go to college, speaks only one language, and is generally ignorant. I do think that we should teach people basic manners, for example, if you’re curious about someone’s nationality, simply ask “What is your nationality?” rather than trying to guess. But to expect folks to hear that someone is Korean and even understand what that means, that it is a separate country, in Asia, that made their TV… well, sad to say, this is expecting a bit much. So I think that uneducated folks everywhere need to be given a bit of a pass and ignored. If a person you know to be educated makes these errors, by all means, let ‘em have it. But when a dude in rural Mississippi asks if you’re Chinese or Japanese, or a dockworker ajoshi molests you in broken English, don’t get offended. Just roll your eyes, let it go, and go have some drinks with your educated friends.
Hypothetical question: if Park Chan-uk was going to direct a big-budget movie intended for international release, would it be okay if it starred Chow Yun Fat?
Not Korean, but same point, did you not see Chow Yun Fat and Jodie foster in Anna and the King. Should he be disbarred from the role because he’s Chinese, should he be further restricted to only his part of china? Should Jodie foster be disbarred from the role of Anna because she’s American.
To parathought Someguy – Thats why its called “acting”.
Jesus, Gong Li playing a Japanese, Brad Pitt playing a pikey and Benicio del Toro a Jew. World’s going to Hell in a handbasket, I tell you. Next, we’ll see Hugh Laurie playing an American…
“If Americans reserve a particular set of insults for Chinese, then it should be relevant to know that the Asian being insulted isn’t Chinese.”
Right, I’m sure the next time I’m insulted by a korean, I’ll make sure I quote you “damn you Sir, I think its relevant for you to know I am NOT american.”
If someone wants to insult you, they not generally going to worry about getting you’re ethnicity right.
“a WASP would not would have wished to be confused for an Irish man.
More desperate hole digging, the terms aren’t mutually exclusive, if the Irish guy is protestant then he very well may be a WASP [White Anglo-Saxo Protestant]
“That said, the U.S. had a democracy and the UK at that time had a royal system, so certainly there is some similarities,”
At that time the UK was a democracy!!
“Try casting Aryans as Jews in Schindler’s list”
You seriously think all those extras were Jewish? Again the term is not mutually exclusive, most of those in the camps were poles, slavs, russians etc… as ethnically jwesih as koreans are mongols. i.e. mostly likely a little bit in the mix, but most certainly would have looked out of place in Jeresalem at the time of Jesus.
And Schindler was played by, Oh yes an Irish guy.
Korean actors in American vampire dreck vs. Korean actors in Korean vampire dreck. Tomayto, tomahto.
and the nasty german, by the race that almost always seems to be pigeon holed as the nasty german in war moveies, Yes thats right and English guy.
Welcome to the world of acting.
Think of those poor russian guys in korean TV always getting pigeon holed as Americans, they must be so desperate wishing that the korean world of TV would recognise that not all pasty faced white guys are americans.
If you want koreans to be recognised as koreans in movies then why don’t you make some movies with a korean story for the wider world market that people outswide korea can understand and get into.
I hated being called a Chink. I don’t think anyone ever called me a Jap.
Not that it matters, I hate being mistaken for a Chinese more than for a Japanese.
Why? because the average White stereotype for a Japanese has a lot more respect built into it than the your average fish-and-chips shop owning greasy Chinese… Some racial abuse terms are a bit more complicated than getting it “right or wrong”.
Canada or U.S.? Nothing is perpetuated yet which makes one group that much worse or better in an average Korean’s eyes..(well, maybe Bush Jr.) so just live with it.
As for Blood, this is a cult anime/manga, akin to Ghost in the Shell etc. It has a following around the world and not just Asia. Korean Wave stuff is very much restricted to the Asian region so far because it lacks the sophistication, originality and history of dedication to a popular culture which Japan has nurtured for a long time. (yes even Park Chanwook I think is overrated) This is what draws the young Westerners like flies to a flypaper to that country to learn the culture and study the language, sort of like what draws those poor suckers from South East Asia etc who come here thinking it’s all Dejangum and Full House..That’s what the Koreans envy.
We lament that we have to send our best actors and actresses to act in a hodge-podge lukewarm international mongrel remake of excellent Japanese ideas, and not have our own to show. That’s what it boils down to. Not because we have to act Japanese..or Chinese or whatever.
@Colontos
#2 is a fair point, but I absolutely disagree with #1. For one, it may hold true that vast majority of the Asians in the world are Chinese (hell, they win by plurality even when the field extends to mankind), but the impact relevant to what I’m criticizing is much more significant to Asian Americans, and according to US Census, Chinese and Japanese Americans only represent 1/3 of the Asian American population (See page 9).
I think some of the posters here are significantly underestimating the power of the dark side popular culture and perception it generates.
I have much more faith in Park Chan Wook. I’ve seen trailers and it looks very interesting.
Blasphemy!
@Argh!!!
That’s a great idea Argggh!!
My Sassy Girl.
The Lake House.
The Uninvited.
Now…in development
JOA
Old Boy
And more….
Is this in the same spirit as those asinine refute to movie criticisms that go along the line of “Well, why don’t you make something better then?” ?
I guess that argument is a good case of tu quoque fallacy. Why do you assume I have the burden to defend what Korean TV stations(which I generally dislike) do again?
Once again Saya is not Japanese!!!!
Secondly, if Koreans were playing stereotyped Korean roles it would be you guys who would be up in arms at being pigeon holed or being stereotyped. I watched an interesting documentary the other night about coming out in Hollywood. Despite a fair number of closet and openly gay male actors they cast straight guys for gay roles. And the one case of a gay man playing a lead romantic heterosexual role lasted for two movies before he bombed.
Netizen Kim : Jet Li played a lead romantic role in “Romeo must die”.
So relax brother.
By the by, I have been waiting for this movie for ages. I will hear no bad words about it.
And while I understand the Gyopos consternation at always being thought of as Japanese or Chinese, the issue of casting in movies and the morphing of the Asian supertype is a ridiculous place to make your stand.
Absolutely classic.
Absolutely. You see the key phrase there? Stereotype?
Because popular culture doesn’t influence the way people think? Especially in a consumerism-heavy society like United States?
Well, if it makes the Koreans on the board any happier, sometimes one of your countrymen playing one of your countrymen can be an unhappy event. Witness any of the actors in the movie “Australia”. Nicole Kidman and Hugh Jackman stole three hours of my life and I want them back.
(Mel Gibson in Mad Max, on the other hand…)
bumfromkorea, colontos
Most people ain’t dumb. They —and I — are lazy, for sure. But not dumb. Can’t believe you people would say that — or something like that — with a straight face. Take it back, bitches!
4 year degree? Hmnn, how does that korean saying go again… 개나 소나 돈과의지만 있으면 되는거 아냐?
Big difference by the way—if you think people are stupid and perpetuate that stereotype, they’ll end up remaining stupid. I think that’s what you can classify as a self fulfilling prophecy? I recall reading about a study that compared test scores of black students in two cases — normal case and a test case where the teachers “reminded the kids” just before taking the exam that they were black. Guess which group did significantly worse.
arghaeri, you’re correct about wasp, and my reference to schindler’s list was poor one indeed, especially considering that ben kingsley plays a major role in the film as a jew. but even after your multiple, highly articulate posts, i don’t see your point and i don’t see that you’ve understood my point. if something is contributing to ignorance in society and that ignorance causes or actually leads to problems that a few of us actually deal with, then why shouldn’t complaining about it be the right thing to do? i wouldn’t take this right away from others who were dealing with comparable problems. sure, the complaining has to be comensurate with the depth and frequency of the shit the complainers are dealing with. i feel that’s the case here, although bear in mind i don’t find this subject that interesting.
I think this business about Korean actors playing Chinese/Japanese roles is missing the point. In American cinema, the true arrival of any Asian actor is when they are no longer playing Asians.
“Absolutely classic.”
Sure, if you mean that he must have dredged that one up from Dave’s ESL, circa 2004.
I’ve only seen one guy wear that shirt, and it must have been over 5 years ago. Clearly, they never were very popular.
@Gran
So you’d call Gong Li’s role as a Cuban her arrival?
Nope. That’s not what I meant. I meant: Absolutely classic.
NetizenKim, the only Western film I can recall offhand with an Asian male lead that was actually portrayed in having a penis was a French (natch) movie called L’Amant from the 90′s. Quite a saucy one at that as it inverted the usual roles of Dirty Old Gweilo with Sweet Young Oriental with Waifish European Lolita and Older Chinese Gentlemen. As I recall, there were some pretty explicit sex scenes in the movie. Most surprising of all, is that it was autobiographical as the author of the novel which the movie was based on actually had a lusty pubescent affair with a Chinese man back in the day in French Indo-China.
Of course, it was a European art house film so it really doesn’t count vis-a-vis the more wider exposure of American Hollywood films.
For the record, I have no issues with Asians playing other Asians in the movies. A Korean can be a Japanese. Why not? It really is, as Colontos mentioned, a rock-stupid thing to be outraged about.
I had no problems whatsoever with Robert Downey Jr playing a Black man in “Tropic Thunder”. In fact, I found it both great and hilarious. I was aghast at the Wayans Brothers playing White chicks in “White Chicks”. Here you have an example of a work which pushes the boundaries of both gender AND racial correctness but my consternation had more to do with Aesthetic reasons than with identity politics.
Staking a position as expressed by #1 is regrettable because you are setting up a “sacred cow” that begs to be slaughtered via ridicule and tomfoolery. This ideological position, which is not very defensible to begin with, takes itself way too seriously and you’re asking for trouble. Admittedly, the average mongrelized American finds difficulty with this argument made by nativist Asians. Someone who is of Irish-German-British-Scottish mix with a touch of Cherokee thrown in for good measure is not inclined to sympathize with opinions such that that opined by one, Wanky, a mono-racial gyopo, in #1. There are far more legitimate criteria to base one’s outrage, mostly having to do with pure aesthetics and the quality of the acting in terms of character study.
I believe Memoirs… is offensive not because a Chinese actress plays a Geisha but because it is YET another fulfillment of the Western Orientalist vision of Asia (when it comes to exotic/erotic Orientalist fantasies, you can’t pick a better subject matter than the mysterious, alluring Geisha, a subculture that even the average Japanese don’t know much about…based upon a book written by a White guy (no surprises there), no less). Memoirs… also takes itself way too seriously. Thus it is ripe for satirical parody. You fight fire with FIRE, not Politically-Correct, indefensible, “sacred-cow” outrage. May I propose Memoirs of a Playboy Mansion Bunny as a spoof on Memoirs of a Geisha? I would write the script myself but it’s a bit hard to type with a raging boner…especially one-handed.
Well, I’d quibble with that, because the census includes Indians and Pakistanis and such, which are Asian, sure, but we’re really talking about East Asians here. If you factor them out, then Chinese are a much bigger chunk. But I will grant you the point, generally. Here’s the ranking of the big 4 in America in 2000: 1-Chinese 2-Vietnamese 3-Korean 4-Japanese.
How old are you, JW? Most people are dumb. If I were to judge from this comment alone, I would say that that includes you, but I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt.
No, I really don’t think that my stating such on a blog perpetuates stupidity. What am I supposed to do, go the mall and start handing out pamphlets? People are dumb. It doesn’t matter if they’re dumb because they’re dumb or dumb because they’re lazy. Dumb is dumb.
Irish are not WASPs, by the way, because they are not Anglo-Saxon. They are Celtic. Scots are also not WASPs. English and Germans can be, if they’re Protestant.
Your whole point is wrong, though. A Korean or a Chinese playing a Japanese does not contribute to ignorance. It’s not as if most dumb people even know the difference. Let me ask: if the same shit movies are being made, but with all actors playing characters of their respective ethnicities, would that somehow not contribute to ignorance? If you wanna say that the crap that Hollywood puts out in general, the stories and plots, contribute to ignorance, I’m inclined to agree. But actors playing different ethnicities does not.
So what’s your point? Are you saying it’s pointless to complain about the fact that Asian = Chinese Foreigner or Asian = Japanese Foreigner for the vast majority of Americans simply because you think people are stupid and there’s nothing we can do about it? Do you really think there won’t be a time in the future where people will be significantly better educated about such things? I mean, I would agree in the sense that it’s not something we should make war about. But it’s a legitimate gripe that I would hope you have some sympathy for. And no, I don’t really give a shit if JJH plays a japanese character. It’s merely a symptom of the problem, which originates in demographics and the general stupidity that you think is positively incurable. It was a decent springboard to launch into the discussion we have here. Did somebody here even claim that asians playing out of their ethnicity was a central cause of the problem? You really do think we are stupid, don’t you?
And no, I’m not dumb. I don’t know why you’re so confident of your self. It’s not like you ever demolished me in argument or anything. And for crying out loud, I’m not gonna act like you’re a baby and feel like it’s necessary to respond to every point you made. Precisely because I don’t think you are stupid.
After looking down all of these posts I then looked at WangKon’s original posts and then I realised how far my criticism had actually drifted from his point. in response.
1) Her character is still not able to definitely be defined as Japanese and from my perspective this is hardly anything to get worked up about. I assume this comes from you personally being mistaken for Chinese, Japanese or anything before Korean and it must annoy you how little your country and culture is recognised in the west. However things like JJH being in any movie that gets noticed is only going to draw attention to Korea, because of the novelty, and this will inturn gradually educate people about Korea.
2) I actually agree with you on this one.
Well, I mean, if you wanna get really technical about it, it’s another movie where an asian actor plays out the stereotypical kung fu role, so in that sense it does contribute to the ignorance. By itself, harmless, but added to the stinking pile, yeah it really doesn’t help. Which is why it’s a good springboard into complaints or discussion about the central causes of the problem.
t_song:
I’d say it’s a step in the right direction. I’m not sure what the thinking was with the folks making “Miami Vice.” But I suspect that Gong Li was cast in the film to make it more appealing to Asian audiences. You could say Gong Li was therefore cast only because she’s Asian. But I would argue that she was cast because a large segment of world’s population knows her and likes her, and will pay to see her in a movie. This is the real reason why any recognizable star is cast in Hollywood, regardless of their ethnicity: because they will bring people to see the movie. It’s certainly not for their acting.
A better example would be Daniel Henney’s character in “Wolverine.” In the comics, that character was from East Germany. But the producers realized that ethnicity didn’t really matter, as long as the actor could be appropriately bad-ass. I call this “the Vin Diesel Effect.”
In essence, yes. But what I’m saying is that the majority of all people everywhere are dumb. Americans, Koreans, you name it: most people are simply not going to be educated about these issues. They don’t have the time, the inclination, the brain power, the education, whatever. Something is missing and they just aren’t gonna get it. So yes, complaining about this is pointless. It’s like complaining about people driving badly. Yeah, it sucks, but it’s never going away. So quit fucking whining.
Yes, I really think that.
Yeah, WangKon did, and some other agreed with him. Were you paying attention?
Who the fuck is “we”? By “we” do you mean Asians? How do you know I’m not Asian, asshole? All the white people around here think I am, just like all the Asians around here think I’m white. Because I don’t put up with bullshit from either side.
OTOH, if by “we” you mean “stupid people,” then yes, I do think that y’all are stupid.
*cracks knuckles*
Seriously, JW, I want an answer. How old are you? Because you write like a 14 year old.
You seem to have a real problem with me claiming most people are stupid, because you seem to be afraid that it includes you. If you’ll go and re-read the first post where I said so, I included some qualifiers as to what I meant by “dumb” and what I meant in saying that most of us here on the blog are the elite. This is of course in relation to the subject at hand. If we start talking about hard science, then I have a feeling that suddenly we Marmoteers would fall mostly within the “dumb” category. That said, of course, I still think that a good 75% of humanity falls into the “dumb” category on ALL subjects.
1) It’s not fucking whining, dumbass. If you grow up as an American but then realize at a certain age that the vast majority of your fellow countrymen don’t recognize you as such, it’s a MAJOR FUCKING problem. It goes straight to the heart of how I should perceive what my stakes are as an American citizen. And just as we can hope for better policies or ideas to be devised in order to bring down the number of traffic fatalities, we can do the same for this issue also.
2) Wangkon never said it was a central cause. A reasonable observer shouldn’t mistake his statement as such unless there is reason to think that Koreans have any signficantl influence over the type of roles they get in hollywood. THere is no such reason.
3) By “we” I meant whoever was generally arguing in favor of the position I have in this matter. I ultimately don’t give a shit as to whether you are asian.
4) I don’t really give a shit if I write like a 14 year old, so long as I can get my points across with enough fluency for you to be able to understand what I’m saying.
1) It is whining, whether it’s justified or not. And this is a separate issue from whether someone thinks your are Chinese or Japanese. Quit conflating shit. I don’t like it when white folks in Korea whine, and I don’t like it when Koreans in America whine. Quit fucking whining! The world’s never gonna change!
2) Here’s what WK said in #1: “I’d wish Koreans would stop trying to get a head in this world by pretending to be Japanese.”
I don’t know what you mean by “central cause.” A lot of shit that you say doesn’t make sense. That’s in response to 4. Yeah, sometimes we get what you’re saying. Sometimes it’s hard to understand. You often don’t get what we’re saying, and it ain’t because we write bad.
Are you fucking dumb? How the fuck is it whining when like I said it’s a major fucking problem? When complaining increases out of proportion with the degree of problem and circumstances surrounding it, that is when we usually call it whining, no? God damn, I thought I got enough years of education in this country to be able to understand what whining fucking is.
Good Grief!
And oh yea, Canadians aren’t the only ones who wear tshirts like “I’m not american”
Check out music video in the link below , the korean american singer comes out briefly in a t-shirt that says ” i don’t speak kung fu”
And I don’t really think you are dumb. I wouldn’t dare stoop to such levels.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmnuF9BqxWk
“Irish are not WASPs, by the way, because they are not Anglo-Saxon. They are Celtic. Scots are also not WASPs. English and Germans can be, if they’re Protestant.”
Anyone can be if they are White, Anglo-Saxon and Protestant.
Many english are celts, many irish and scots are anglo-saxon.
“I guess that argument is a good case of tu quoque fallacy. Why do you assume I have the burden to defend what Korean TV stations(which I generally dislike) do again?”
Not really, I am not making an argument justifying it so no fallacy involved. The theme of my comments is that its “Acting”, based on the initial premise/complaint at #1, and that the problem is somewhat overconflated. As I understand it the part was based on a Japanese character, created by a Japanese, so quite how its pigeon holing a korean into a Japanese role is somewhat moot.
By the way, why do you assume I’m asking you to defend anyone at all (I wasn’t).
Even if I was why are russians less deserving of your oratory than koreans?
It’s already been done.
Half Japanese Anna Tsuchiya is almost as spunky as Kendra, and the whole thing is very MTV-tacky.
How is it a major problem? It’s just something that bothers you. And you complain about it, but don’t do anything to change it, because it cannot be changed. Whining. Why don’t you go cry about it?
@Arghaeri
Irish, as in ethnically Irish, is not Anglo-Saxon. The Celts were pushed out of England by the Anglo-Saxons into Scotland and Ireland. Of course there is a lot of mixing. But “Irish” means Celtic.
@Colontos – debatable Ireland is a nation, Celt an ethnicity, the Celts are not limited to Ireland, and do not originate in Ireland, therefore Ireland is arguably not an ethnic term just a destination. There are many ethnic celts in europe, in wales france, england and no doubt elsewhere. I am likely a celt but I am not Irish. Those most likley to be Protestant in Ireland are perhaps also the most likley not to be celtic.
“Is this in the same spirit as those asinine refute to movie criticisms that go along the line of “Well, why don’t you make something better then?” ?”
No its in the spirit of you can’t expect as a right for other countries film makers to educate other countries peoples, as to uniqueness of your culture and identity, its a business whose main object is to make money!!
Hence, presumably someone has done the calculation that that JJH will overall be of benefit to the profitmaking of the film, she’s certainly attractive enough, maybe cheaper than one of the chinese megastars, maybe the hallyu/novelty factor will make her bankable enough overall cost v benefit.
As to the kung fu stereotypes, blame the chinese who populsarised it, and the stereotypes are no longer universal – example Jason Statham is demonstrating that its not only orientals who can do fancy kicks.
How is it a major problem? It’s just something that bothers you.
Uh colontos, I meant that it’s a major problem to the millions of asian americans in the country.
And you complain about it, but don’t do anything to change it, because it cannot be changed. Whining.
Of course it can be changed. And I do what little I can to contribute to the process by arguing against people who deny it’s a problem, or that it’s a significant problem worth expending effort on. People like you.
Don’t care whether you play Japanese or Filipino or Marshallese.
You ain’t Norwegian. And them Swedes ain’t Norwegian neither.
Any of you catch the movie 21 ?
“Choi can’t be the big player because…he’s Choi.” A-hah! You’ll had better put on your angry faces and get a protestin’. But then again Choi was played by a Korean. Golly, the perplexities!
#100 seouldout:
Any of you catch the movie 21 ?
I have. In the surreal world of Hollywood, according to 21, MIT students who conned Las Vegas casinos were mostly attractive suburban White kids who look like they stepped out of an Abercrombie & Fitch catalogue. In real life, they were Chinese-Americans.
It is a sad day when Asian can’t fulfill the role of math nerd.
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