Yes, more Korean Diaspora news so please bear with me. Koreans have been moving into northern Oakland for more than a decade and just recently convinced the city to give it an official designation. More specifically, this part of the city will be called “Koreatown/Northgate Community Benefit District.” Quite a mouthful. Essentially, the 150 some odd Korean businesses in the area will pay higher taxes to get extra policing and clean-up.
There is at least one potential problem here. Unlike Los Angeles Koreatown, which is full of English as a second language Latinos, Oakland Koreatown is full of African-Americans, a group that Koreans have typically had more tension with.
Per Hyphen magazine:
There’s a lot of potential for conflict here, as in L.A., where nonresident landlords call the shots with resident, often black, business owners. And there is already some conflict, not surprisingly primarily with black business owners, including one who claims that his Korean landlord threatens him and is trying to drive him out of business.
This broad perspective is important because of the (sometimes justified) perception that Koreans come into African American communities, make money off of them, only hire other Koreans, and then take the money back out of the community. It’s a pretty … well … colonizing thing to do — to come into a neighborhood you don’t even live in, buy up the property, and then decide to call it after yourself. On the other hand, if you’re the only community willing to take that kind of action, the only one that’s participating in the meetings and doing the legwork, how should that work be acknowledged?
Nice article that fills in the background here.






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This Hyphen Magazine article just begs for my Special Attention (pat pending):
And with the stroke of a bureaucrat’s pen, I now live in Koreatown.
Warning: helpless whiney victimization ahead.
Yes, Oakland now has a Koreatown, or more precisely, a “Koreatown/Northgate Community Benefit District,” which means the businesses along Telegraph between 20th and 35th pay higher taxes and get more policing and cleaning.
I saw the streetlamp banners go up a few weeks ago, and heard my local cafe owner complain good-naturedly about the absurdity of it. Only 7 percent of the property in the area is owned by Koreans, and the majority of them are owners only, not residents.
Translation: we don’t take kindly to your kind ’round ‘hea.
There’s a lot of potential for conflict here, as in L.A., where nonresident landlords call the shots with resident, often black, business owners. And there is already some conflict, not surprisingly primarily with black business owners, including one who claims that his Korean landlord threatens him and is trying to drive him out of business.
Setting the stage with the familiar Black versus Korean conflict dichotomy. Apparently this hasn’t gone out of style since the Rodney King LA riots of the 90′s even in this so-called Age of Post-Racial America under Barack Obama as POTUS. Blacks = victim, Koreans = oppressor.
But, according to the linked East Bay Express article, the board of the Benefit District nonprofit has hired a local Af Am resident to be the community ambassador (and he sounds pretty awesome.) And the spearhead of this whole endeavor, Alex Hahn, seems to get it, too:
Such sentiments are nothing new to Alex Hahn, who operated businesses in majority African-American neighborhoods for years. “We have to understand: if you non-black community, you get in there, they think you invade their territory,” he said, adding that the situation is the same no matter what race the majority community is.
First rule of American identity politics, get token member of the opposing side to voice your agenda to give it added legitimacy.
Mr Alex Hahn needs to get a bit of a clue. It not a primarily a “race thing” although that can be an aggravating factor on the surface level.
Years ago, a friend of mine, a recent arrival from Korea, was planning to open a PC-Bang near a local high school in the township of Livingston, NJ, an upper-middle-class enclave of mostly White, Jewish, and Asian residents. His reasoning was that the Fort Lee/Palisades Park, NJ area was too saturated and Livingston was like a virgin territory.
Long story short, his business plans failed because he could not get an approval from the town council. At the last minute, the permit was reevaluated and eventually canceled because one of the board members, a parent and a teacher, had read a newspaper article about a gang-related violence which happened in a PC-Bang in Queens, NY. My friend, who had thought the permit would be a sure thing, had already made binding agreements with vendors, commercial contractors, and the owners of the retail space. He was sued for breach of contract and eventually lost all his investment capital, which was tens of thousands of dollars. He did not blame any of this on “racism” but attributed it mostly to his own mistakes and naivete about doing business in America.
Another example, my girlfriend, who is Jewish, works as a director of a non-profit sketch comedy organization looking to open a small theater in the Village, Manhattan. The owner is a White dude who is a small-time millionaire who made his dough in internet related companies prior. They are looking to obtain a liquor license, standard operating procedure of theaters, but the municipality requires approval from the community. They are facing resistance from the residents concerned about possible rowdy comedy club-goers disturbing the peace and dragging down property values. Racism is obviously not involved here.
This is a reality of doing small business in America.
Mr Hahn does everyone involved a great disservice by helping to frame the discussion in terms of race, rather than specific pragmatic issues relevant to a potentially volatile situation. People can actually do something about the issues. People cannot change their race but the race card invokes helpless victimization which in turn leads to hostilities.
That’s why he says it’s important that the Korean businesses include everyone, and be sensitive to their concerns. “I think we owe them because we make money from their community,” he added. “We have to give them opportunity.” When he operated Acorn Market in West Oakland, Hahn said the majority of workers he hired were from the neighborhood. When young people came and vandalized his store during the Rodney King riots, he chose not to call the police because he said it would have made the situation worse.
Unfortunately, because of the laws of economics and certain biases harbored by many Korean-Americans, no matter how well they have learned Politically Correct double-speak, Mexican labor will be preferable to hiring Afro-Americans. Mr Alex Hahn’s sentimentality sounds like a wonderful lame attempt at PR and a weak call for Affirmative Action by Koreans for Black hiring on the retail business level, something which he must know in his heart won’t happen.
This broad perspective is important because of the (sometimes justified) perception that Koreans come into African American communities, make money off of them, only hire other Koreans, and then take the money back out of the community. It’s a pretty … well … colonizing thing to do — to come into a neighborhood you don’t even live in, buy up the property, and then decide to call it after yourself.
Will someone PLEASE tell “Claire” and send a memo to the African-American community that we Koreans were not the ones who brought them on slave ships out of Africa and kept them in bondage for 300 years? Will someone PLEASE tell Alex Hahn that the last thing we Korean-Americans need is to be manipulated with a Yellow version of White Guilt?
On the other hand, if you’re the only community willing to take that kind of action, the only one that’s participating in the meetings and doing the legwork, how should that work be acknowledged?
A disclaimer: Claire’s one-line grand claim to “journalistic objectivity”.
And if the name were to acknowledge the predominantly black community it’s located in, how would you do that? What would you call it? There are only district names for African and Carribbean immigrant enclaves, not African American communities.
Almost every heavily black area in major US cities has a Martin Luther King, Jr Blvd or a Malcolm X Blvd, places where White folks are scared to be in.
How do you capture that in a name, especially since, although they are still far too often second class citizens, African Americans are still universally considered American, whereas immigrants … not so much. It’s only the foreign Other that requires naming in this manner.
Evidently, Claire seems to think the Korean-American communities don’t not have hard-working, tax-paying Americans. We’re simply the “Foreign Other”. Believe it or not, Blacks can be racist too. Many of them have learned not a damn thing with their Black History Months, MLK, Jr, Civil Rights, yaddy yaddy yada. They have even less of an excuse than White people.
And that may be one of the reasons that Oakland doesn’t have an African American-town. It’s not just that most major American cities have substantial African American populations. It’s that Oakland is known as an overwhelmingly black city. Like Atlanta or Washington D.C., you just say the city name and everyone knows what group dominates there. In fact, Oakland is often used as a metonym for a predominantly black city.
No comment.
And that in itself is misleading, since in Oakland is spoken over 150 languages (although interestingly enough, since about half of the Oakland Public School system’s students are African American, in 1996 African American Vernacular English [AAVE], a.k.a. “Ebonics,” was adopted as the school district’s second official language, and bilingual classroom instruction using Ebonics was mandated.) Just spend an afternoon on a bench on Lake Merritt, the city’s real commons, and you’ll get a sense of the enormous diversity of Oakland. I’d love to see “Oakland” become a metonym for incredible diversity led by African Americans. Think that’s too long a phrase for such a small word?
Ebonics? Oh, Jesus Fuckin Christ. That just says it all right there. One people, One language, under God.
Per that insanely long Hipster Grifter thread I thought you didn’t have a gf… especially a “Jewish” gf…
WK, my personal life is not the primary focus of interest here. Furthermore, whatever I wrote in the hipster-grifter thread is valid, independent of the status of my personal details.
I am glad you dug up this article because there seems to be still quite some unfinished business between the KA community and the larger society, particularly Blacks.
Socio-economic realities in America, being what they are, often puts KA’s (especially retail business entrepreneurs) and Blacks in close proximity of each other, ready to butt heads. It seems the source of the friction are largely economic in nature. While I disagree with certain particulars of Mr Hahn’s approach to the problem, as I have stated above, I generally am sympathetic to the general gist of what he’s saying. I also acknowledge that KA’s have an image problem within the Black community, that we appear to be leeches extracting money from the urban areas and giving little in return.
KA’s do need to put more effort into the Black communities. But I do not believe in Affirmative Action hiring. Hiring should be based solely on qualification, work ethic, and merit and if a Black-American fits that bill they should be hired, but not simply because he’s Black. Does American professional sports, like football and basketball, dominated by Afro-Americans, have Affirmative Action for Asian-Americans? No, and they shouldn’t.
Despite the differences, the two communities have much in common. Both have a strong Christian church culture. We need to start having mixed Black-Korean congregations in some of these areas. There is a well-known saying that Sunday service is the most segregated hour in America. Innovative and socially aware and conscientious pastors need to start fulfilling this niche and boldly push the envelope in unexplored directions. Praise time during 2nd gen gyopo services are utterly lame and 1st gen congregations are still stuck in the 19th century. We uptight, stiff upper-lipped neo-Confucians make White people look positively dynamic and that’s really saying something! The Blacks could teach us a thing or two about energetic and lively worship services. In many ways, the Black and Asian communities have strengths and weaknesses that are complementary and when the two approach each other in the spirit of lending a mutual helping-hand it could lead to much greater understanding and demolish walls. It never fails to amaze me how gyopo church-goers, forever enthusiatic about overseas short-term mission trips, neglect the needs of the urban poor and disenfranchised in our own backyards right here in America! KA’s, famous for our obsession for education, should be marching in legions into the inner–city schools as teachers and volunteers to help close the achievement gap, which is often recognized as an unfinished battle of Civil Rights, demonstrating to urban youth that education is not a White folks thing, pounding into their heads that education is the only ticket to survival in our flat world of global competition, and that they have even less of an excuse with the powerful example set by Obama in becoming President.
Well here’s one story written in a very East Bay white liberal kinda publication:
“Oakland’s Koreatown Isn’t Your Typical Ethnic Enclave,” in the East Bay Express.
Re comment:
Re the second sentence, the version of that I’ve heard is that “churches and nightclubs are the most segregated parts of America,” and I’ve always seen at least that much of it as being a matter of rhythm. Literally. Different groups don’t go to different churches and nightclubs because they want to be separate, but because they feel comfortable with the music they’re used to.
Then the comment, “We need to start having mixed Black-Korean congregations in some of these areas.”
Hmm… for the purpose of having that? I don’t know anyone on either side who doesn’t think that and I don’t know anyone who cares to be involved himself. Furthermore I don’t personally know anyone who has seen it work, or who has tried and hasn’t been left wondering what makes the other side tick. As a Korean-educated/speaking white Oaklander (in childhood, and currently once again for a while), I get question both sides about both sides. Blacks especially, since Koreans already think they’ve got the low-down on Blacks. Questions like, “Why don’t Koreans tithe unless they own their own church?” “Why do Korean pastors always bring the Korean news media when they come to speak at our church?” etc. (And indeed, one does see a lot of pictures (few stories) with Korean and African-American pastors holding one-time or annual 연합예배 of some sort.) Fortunately they ask with genuine, sincere interest, and fortunately one does find first generation Koreans who call for Koreans to give Blacks the proper hyeongnim respect they deserve for things like the Civil Rights Movement. Even if there aren’t too many (ie, I know of none) “joint” churches for the long-term, at least everyone thinks it’s an ideal to be upheld.
I know some beautiful Black-Korean families in Oakland; none are regularly churched.
A lot of Koreans voted of Obama, and I think this has not gone unnoticed. Ahn Chang-ho’s daughter was all over the Korean news media in California saying Obama was the inheritor of the Dosan Jeongsin. Maybe that helped.
BTW, when Blacks tell me they feel “judged” by Koreans, I’ve started telling them the feeling is probably accurate but they’re that way with each other.
BTW, WangKon936, Oakland has always had something of a Koreatown, at least to local Koreans, it’s farther downtown and there’s still lots of Korean stores and offices and such. Store owners are quick to note their neighborhood is “safer at night” than the area now officially designated as such. One theory holds that this original Koreatown started getting ignored by Korean patrons for the fact that – get this, but it sounds like a good theory – that it doesn’t have good parking.
NK,
Well, I don’t see if you can complain TOO loudly if you are dipping your pen in the whiteout…
Hey oranckay,
I honestly don’t know too much about Oakland Koreatown. I went there a few times in the early 2000′s and I remember a place that wasn’t as ghetto as the rest of Oakland, but it was tiny… about one solid block and a few other places around there.
Koreans, being fairly recent immigrants, don’t start with the most expensive land, however, they tend to gentrify whatever area they are in. Not everyone wants gentrification. It’s not just Oakland.
http://www.nytimes.com/1996/09/08/nyregion/karaoke-crackdown-stirs-ethnic-anger-in-palisades-park.html
In Koreatown LA, whites are actually moving back in after all the big oil and insurance companies left.
Netizen Kim claimed he was bedding a Jewish girl few years back and being pretty good at the language, then he claimed recently he was bedding a black girl, and he compared himself to Solomon.
off and on, he says his family eats Matzos and celebrates Jewish holidays.
I suspect his father must be Jewish and his mother Korean. Then, he must not really be a ‘Kim’.
he is a rarity.
if I am right. Good job, Sherlock wjk.
like Koreatown LA, Koreantown Oakland needs to operate behind bulletproof counters and life saving guns, ammunition. We all know in the US, police show up to banks in a New York minute, but are expected to arrive in 1 hour for mom and pop liquor stores. Go to the shooting range often, and play a lot of Halo.
Oakland California is something like Detroit-West Coast version. It is a pictoral indictment of the racist white community who is fond of flying at the sight of foreign races.
of course, they will often blame it on crime and bad schools.
the flight itself creates crime and bad schools, but this is none of the concern of the white man.
Koreans and Koreatowns in general coexisted with Latin Americans and huddled around severely white-flighted hoods, rebuilding them and better-fying these hoods with robot like diligence, efforts to conceal cash income, operating on high margins, and every once in a while getting shot by the local bandits. Koreans make wherever they are living better overall. True, there is some illegal immigration attraction and whore problems, but it is nothing compared to say, Latin American versions of the problem.
still, the white guy flies from the zone. What I LOLed at was dogbertt, who fled this situation and married a gyopo. That deserves another hearty LOL.
@Krazy Kyopo:
You know nothing about Oakland, having neither lived nor worked there, unlike me.
Oakland is most definitely not representative of “white flight”.
What’s more, you need to stop mouthing off about things you cannot comprehend. “White flight” has nothing to do with you; you were not in the U.S. when it occurred and it does not affect you in the slightest. You just read a book, think you’re an expert, and are using whatever half-baked nutty ideas to bash “whitey”, just like your co-ethnic Nutizen Kim.
“White flight” does not create crime or bad schools — lack of parental investment in their children does.
The root of my dislike of kyopos is the propensity of 90+% of you toward unfounded arrogance and pride, as manifested in your clearly erroneous statement above. In fact, you hypocrite, if you just replace “Korean” for “Persian” in the crap you posted in another thread it would read just the same.
For your information, although you obviously have no frame of reference, the United States was doing just fine before the wjk family floated over like so much flotsam to make our benighted lives “better overall”.
white flight is real.
you married a gyopo.
Lack of parental investment is not the reason for failing schools.
Most US public schools are funded by property taxes. This was a clever racist way for white people to make sure their suburb schools were ‘excellent’. Rich people with valuable houses have good public highschools.
See, the fact of the matter is, the liberal champion Barack Obama, he doesn’t even send his daughters to a D.C. public school. He sends them to posh upperclass private schools.
people ‘like the wjk family’ came over
1/ legally
2/ basically earned their right to stay. None have so far done it thru marriage, claiming falsely to be a pastor or a religious missionary nor a political refugee.
3/ none have so far gone straight towards welfare, unemployment checks, medicaid, medicare.
Now, I can easily direct you to examples where 1,2,3 are not true, and they act like they own the place.
the wjk family is not that case.
go whack your dong some more.
we also believe the local God of the white man.
we learned English. didn’t ask you to speak to us in Korean. Some LA/Chicago/New York Koreans are the exception. Hey, at least we never asked you to learn Korean.
we pay taxes.
from start to finish, a legal immigration.
we don’t hate America. We thank the American missionaries for making us Presbyterians. We thank the American military for fighting King Kim.
we are the best immigrants America can ask for.
show me a young white teacher in an inner city highschool. Unless he is getting his masters in education for free from the city or he is some religious guy, there are none. And they leave after their duty expires, anyhow. Just something to tout on the resume, as if they really cared.
i know a Korean dude in Queens who operates a hakwon, touting he teached inner city children for his masters.
in private, he says he never wanted to be there, and never will go back. But, it sits on his Korean newspaper ad.
Hey, you’re the virgin, not me.
And so I speak to them in Korean. You are and remain an extremely clannish people.
The thing is, America didn’t ask for you.
You are and remain an extremely clannish people.
Hey buddy. Cut us some slack. Most of us came in the 70′s and 80′s.
The thing is, America didn’t ask for you.
Yeah, but you need us. Someone’s gotta pay for Social Security. A lot of East Asian immigrants probably cheat on their taxes (a symptom of owning your own business and not having to report a W-2), but net-net, they contribute more to government entitlements than they use.
we didn’t immigrate to America with stolen money from the lowerclass, like some formerly upperclass Vietnamese and Persian families have.
translation: we didn’t have BMW’s and Mercedes Benzes and a 4 bedroom house when we arrived.
I own a 100 year old house in Nancy Nadel’s district near Koreana Plaza and currently live in South Korea. I puchased this home (my first) in 2002 from the children of African Americans who relocated to Oakland via the deep south and who’s parents purchased the home in late 1940s. Those original immigrants from the south of the US did major remodels in the 1950s, pulling city permits and doing reasonable quality work. Their children (who I bought the house from) however, essentially raped the house with subsequent remodels (I guess in the late 70s and into the 80s, maybe early 90s): hacking into support beams, excavating the basement below the very old and crumbling foundation and tossing the dirt in the backyard so as to put the foundation of the rear of the house below grade, building a nasty bathroom with inadequate ventilation and sewer connection, a tacked on addition that looked like it existed since the nineteenth century (after the decade or two it existed before I tore it down), converting the basement into an illegal living space with ridiculously dangerous electrial wiring and hacking into the foundation to make more floor space. All of which was done without permits or common sense. When the parents passed, their adult children (who now had grandchildren) didn’t pay garbage or property taxes and eventually got foreclosed. They abandoned their family history in the house and fled after closing. I had the drug customers of one of the prior residents showing up for weeks after they left. A house that had 5 African American people from three generations living in it suddenly had one white male… cleaning up their mess. I grew up in the Bay Area and I’m basically a leftist. I’m culturally very aware, having lived in Europe, Asia, and Manhattan. I felt sad and guilty about the situation at first. I was still in the early stage of (excavating) sorting through the mountains of stuff the family abandoned, which definitely had a layered deposition by date. I found a box full of newspaper clipping and photos a girl had left… her middle school graduation, etc. I though “how could someone just abandon this?” I started to make a pile of the photos for them to keep if they returned. As I reached into the bottom of the box I found the newspaper was all torn up. It was a rat’s nest. Something in me snapped and I realized “If these people don’t care about their own belongings and personal history, why should I?” After weeks of sorting and cleaning (the bottom layer of stuff was put there probably in the 1970s and included beat up old steamer trunks and tons of 78s from the ’40s), Salvation Army brought a tractor trailer and I filled half of it with their stuff. The volume of paper and aluminum recycling for Waste Management was enormous. It took three years of all my spare time and tens of thousands of dollars to fix the place up. I lived there more than 5 years. During that time strange and sometime terrible things happened. The worse was an African American man was shot an killed right infront of my house… presumably in a botched attempt to hijack his van (worth about $1500) and he didn’t give it up.
I know first hand how screwed up the community in Dowtown Oakland/Northgate/Koreatown or whatever developers want to call it this week. There is rot at the core of the culture and it needs a change. I became (and remain) so sick of the ghetto churches, liquor stores, crap BBQ/fried chicken places, prostitues, hooptie chop shops, etc. The ghetto churches may be the worst as they pretend to be a solution when some of them are definitely part of the problem. The one next door to my house includes residential property that has been home to a drug dealer, a recycling business and the good lord knows what else. The pastor has done nothing to improve the dilapitated structures and has the residents piping grey water out the kitchen window.
The black community in Oakland could learn alot to improve their lives from Korean immigrants. They could probably learn alot from Kenyan immigrants if they were coming to Oakland. The people who turned Oakland into a slum cannot stop the changes that are happening. Immigrants will come to live. And the affluent will return to the inner cities as a result of the massive economic changes we are witnessing now. And thankfully, some of them will be African American.
As far as concerns about the ethnic make up of Koreana Plaza, I vividly recall being impressed by the numerous central americans there who can speak functional Korean.
Oakland doesn’t need a “African American Town” because it is, and will remain for decades or longer, a Chocolate City. What it does need is a black community willing to embrace opportunities to improve, welcome newcomers (like Koreans), and develop a stronger sense of ethics. When I removed the self dissassembling chimney of that 100 year old house during my renovation efforts, at the very bottom I found hebrew text from what looked like a song book. This house was probably originally owned by jews, decades before African Americans arrived in the 1940s. Oakland still represents a promised land for immigrant people from around the world. When the residents of Oakland who have lived there for many generations, wake up to this and appreciate what they have and the opportunities right in front of them, Oakland will have a chance to be a best place to live rather than the marginal place it is now.
thank you for sharing this, dude.
i could have said what you said in more offensive language.
What you said needs to be said. Most people, however, will pretend it does not happen and does not exist this way.
It does. I have seen it myself while I was volunteering to repair such a house one summer. I have entered a ghetto church once out of curiosity and being in a university healthcare district, so it was a short walk. I lost all respect for ghetto churches after that. I don’t take Rev Wright seriously.
But can you blame this completely on koreans? After all, koreans knew that if you work hard, good things will come. So they worked hard, and good things did come. Only natural right? Then american scholars and pundits had to go out of their way and start talking about things like “miracle on the han” and “model minority” and what not.
Well, guess what. Koreans respect the opinions of Americans. You reap what you sow man.
Wait wait wait, back up back up.
You have a girlfriend?? What the hell dude.
KA’s, famous for our obsession for education, should be marching in legions into the inner–city schools as teachers and volunteers to help close the achievement gap
NK, at least one KA is doing it. Her name is Michelle Rhee. Her age is 38, which corresponds well with the 1965 Immigration Act. Meaning there will be more like her, just give it time.
Damn Lakers. They have the attention span of a hot blond and the sense of urgency of the rabbit who lost to the hare.
Interesting site I just came across…
http://www.planetesl.com/behaviour.php
Couldn’t help but chuckle at this one.
Spitting: Not done by just the men, even younger women in their 30s can be seen sometimes leaning over the street and letting a big gob drop out. You might hear someone hacking up a lung and loudly spitting it out behind and be shocked when you to turn around and find a 70-year old grandmother!
I nearly cried. It was so reminiscent of last year’s finals. Lakers showed no sense of urgency, no fire. Lakers are not only physically soft, but they are mentally soft as well. That hurt so much just typing it out.
We will win this fucking series because we are too talented to lose, but dammit, I really don’t know if we can even beat Denver, much less Cleveland.
Body Odor: Koreans take pride in bodily cleanliness and are easily turned off by body odor.
Bending Over in Class: While this is not frowned upon, you might be the unpleasant recipient of what is known in Korean language as a “dong-chib”, a favorite practical joke of school-age children. It is performed by clasping the hands together and forming the first and second fingers on each hand into a straight point and poking them right where the sun don’t shine!
LOL
Interesting Vince.
What cha do’in in Korea?
I dunno, dude. I think the jury’s still out on Michelle Rhee. Personally, I have my doubts about her.
If I had to reform education in America, first order of business is banning compulsory education. No child should be forced by the state to be in school. Education should be voluntary and would make for better quality schools across the board for the same reasons that a volunteer army is better than a conscripted army.
At the same time, the current model of a school and classroom (what F Reed refers to as “regimented ignorance factories”, which has remained largely unchanged in the past 2~3 centuries, has to be re-examined and totally revamped. Learning should be fun and meaningful rather than a dreaded chore. If boredom is the friction that impedes the mental engine then fun is the lubricant that makes it run better. In this day and age, advanced multimedia technology should be a regular fixture in the classrooms. I see no reason why the same geniuses that create CGI graphics in Hollywood movies and video games should not be tapped for developing 3-D computer generated videos to illustrate say, abstract concepts from science or mathematics.
Of course, the education bureaucracy itself needs a major overhaul. America’s downfall is that the notion of “civil service” is largely pejorative and the best minds go into the private sector. The inefficiencies of the bureaucracy should be reformed, the fat trimmed, wasteful leaks stop-gapped, and processes made rational and transparent.
In other words, education reform in America is a comprehensive beast that evokes Hercules and the Augean Stables. Compared to that, power-tripping as a “union-buster” is a cakewalk.
Re: banning compulsory education
I agree that the quality of schools would probably go up, but the quality of society would go down. Think about it. A big reason that schools have so many problems is the number of kids who themselves don’t give a shit about education and whose parents also don’t give a shit. If education is not compulsory, then these kids are not gonna go. They can’t get jobs until they’re 16ish, so until then they’ll be milling around on street corners and on rural roads, causing trouble. Youth crime would skyrocket. Drug use and dealing would increase. And these kids with no education now instead of a shitty education would be even more useless leeches and drains on society than they already are.
A better solution is this: take those don’t-give-a-shit kids with don’t-give-a-shit parents out of the regular schools and put them into military boarding schools. The parents don’t care and will be glad to be rid of the extra mouth to feed. Once these kids are in the military schools, we drill the fuck out of them and indoctrinate them 24/7. These kids form the core of our new, more powerful military and police forces. Bring some order to society and to the world.
We should also outlaw abortion and put the kids who would be aborted into these schools as well. Provide well for them, give them good military opportunities, treat them like citizens and an important part of society, and let them repay the favor to Uncle Sam by advancing our interests at home and abroad.
The schools, rid of these potential troublemakers, will also improve, giving civilians a better life as well.
Working for a Korean testing company and the Ministry of Knowlege and Economy in the nanotoxicology field.
I don’t know what the hell that means, but it sounds like it has Cal alumni written all over it.
#30
Colontos:
I agree that the quality of schools would probably go up, but the quality of society would go down.
The focus of this discussion is the reforming the dysfunctional public educational system, not the larger problems of community and society. That’s a much bigger issue that must be dealt with separately although it is one that affects the schools as well.
If education is not compulsory, then these kids are not gonna go. They can’t get jobs until they’re 16ish, so until then they’ll be milling around on street corners and on rural roads, causing trouble. Youth crime would skyrocket. Drug use and dealing would increase. And these kids with no education now instead of a shitty education would be even more useless leeches and drains on society than they already are.
My contention is that this scenario is already happening and has happened even with our current state of education and policy. Compulsory education forces the street thugs-in-training and the unmotivated to sit side-by-side with those with a genuine desire to learn. It sacrifices the general welfare of good students and puts an enormous burden on teachers and staff. It has to stop. Given a choice, I’d rather have excellent public schools under the auspices of voluntary education and urban punks running amok outside instead of what we have now, which is mediocre public schools under the obsolete compulsory regime and urban punks running amok outside anyway regardless.
A better solution is this: take those don’t-give-a-shit kids with don’t-give-a-shit parents out of the regular schools and put them into military boarding schools. The parents don’t care and will be glad to be rid of the extra mouth to feed. Once these kids are in the military schools, we drill the fuck out of them and indoctrinate them 24/7. These kids form the core of our new, more powerful military and police forces. Bring some order to society and to the world.
The idea of military boarding schools for troubled youth from troubled families is an interesting one and should be carefully weighed on its own merits.
To elaborate further on my original train of thought, I believe that there has been an overall dumbing-down of standards and curriculum by the Political Correctness establishment. This is a tendency that repeats itself over and over again in US society, not just in education, which is, pandering to the lowest common denominator. The overall trend over the past few decades has been to dismantle high standards and lower expectations. This is how civilizations die.
Each grade level defers its teaching responsibilities and obligations unto the next higher grade until finally, you wind up with the absurdity of colleges and universities teaching remedial materials that should have been already mastered during high school to inner-city freshman students. If this regressive trend doesn’t stop, the worth of a Bachelors degree will be what a high school diploma once was in the past and the Masters degree will take the place of a Bachelors. Oh wait…that’s already happening.
I submit that the very opposite should be enforced instead. There is no reason why much of the core liberal arts curriculum typically covered in the 1st and 2nd years in the university should not be taught during high school. Higher education should be exerting a downward pressure of demand upon the lower grade levels instead of pandering to the dictates of the Political Correctness regime. As you can see, this would have an enormous uplifting effect in terms of what is expected of students as well as teachers. This represents a strenuous 180 degree reversal from the status quo. Such a push-back requires leaders of extraordinary integrity, courage, and willpower. As far as I can tell, no one, not even the mayor-appointed Washington DC education czar Michelle Rhee fits that bill.
But what about the poor troubled kids from bad family environments, etc? Again, the problems of the urban blight minority communities is the resultant legacy of 300 years of slavery and Jim Crow up until about 1965 ~1970. It is not going to go away overnight. But the Samsāraic cycle has to be thwarted by a decisive proactive intervention somewhere and I believe that “somewhere” is in the schools. It is not for nothing that many scholars and thinks agree that education is the last, unresolved battlegrounds of the Civil Rights Movement.
Myself:
At the same time, the current model of a school and classroom (what F Reed refers to as “regimented ignorance factories”, which has remained largely unchanged in the past 2~3 centuries, has to be re-examined and totally revamped.
I submit that the very opposite should be enforced instead. There is no reason why much of the core liberal arts curriculum typically covered in the 1st and 2nd years in the university should not be taught during high school. Higher education should be exerting a downward pressure of demand upon the lower grade levels instead of pandering to the dictates of the Political Correctness regime.
If the obsolete grade school model has remained largely unchanged in at least the last couple of centuries, the college and university model has remained largely stagnant for the last thousand years or so. The first European and American universities started out as Schools of Theology whose purpose was to train Christian ministers and religion scholars. The great revolution of the Age of Enlightenment was the secularization of the traditionally theology-heavy university curriculum. The pendulum is ripe to swing mightily the other way. Armed with 200 years of Arts and Sciences, the universities are ready to rediscovered their past Christian roots, albeit in a highly evolved sense. As CS Lewis once said, Christianity is essentially a fighting religion, concerned with the myriad problems of a fallen world with the moral duty to attack these problems. Just as the downfall of the medieval universities was that they were largely monastic institutions looking to shun society’s evils, today the secular universities have become either Ivy Tower places of refuge for book smart academics out of touch with reality or temples dedicated to the idolatry and pursuit of Mammon (the professional Schools of Business, Medicine, and Law). Students are asked to choose a major in their 3rd year and for the rest of their academic careers they focus on one narrow subject (biology, math, history, you get the idea). If they want to specialize even further, then there’s graduate school. This model is now hopelessly inadequate for preparing leaders for confronting the complex problems of today.
As Robert Heinlein once wrote, specialization is for insects. The concept of a college major must be thrown out. Replaced with what? If the new mission of higher education is to produce legions of problem-solving leaders motivated by ideals and principles, rather than money-grubbers or absent-minded academics whose usefulness is largely limited to academia, then higher education must evolve into a more pragmatic and interdisciplinary direction. There are vast, mind-bogglingly complex problems facing the world today. Take one, for instance, which is environmental issues. This is a subject that requires knowledge and training that cuts across a whole range of wildly divergent subjects: science, law, ethics, economics, engineering, etc. A mere biology or economics major is woefully unprepared to tackle the problem of the environment. The new student of higher education shall be expected to immerse himself/herself in an interdisciplinary experience rather than a major whose end is towards tackling significant social problems of the world today.
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아이고! I don’t care what the others say about you WangKon936씨, you have some strong deductive capabilities. =)
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