First, an admission: When this story first broke, I had no idea what a “hipster” was. I had to look it up.
Anyway, Sadie at Jezebel suggests that Karri Farell, a.k.a. the “Hipster Grifter,” played on the hipster dude’s alleged fetish for Asian girls for her own nefarious ends. The money quote:
Farrell is by no means emblematic of Asians, Asian women, women, Straight-Edge ex scenesters, adopted children, administrative assistants, or even other con artists: she’s clearly a deeply disturbed person who, however immoral, was seeking love and attention. She wreaked havoc on a lot of lives and left a lot of people feeling not just hurt, but humiliated. She seemed so harmless! They all seem to suggest. And why would they think that? To quote Kim, “unlike any other racial group in America today, Asian women routinely are dehumanized in popular culture as sexualized, meek and voiceless objects.” Surely Farrell knew this too?
Perhaps… but I confess that “meek and voiceless” would not be the words to come to mind if some young lady offered to give me a handjob with her mouth.
(HT to reader)
{ 484 comments… read them below or add one }
I’m getting a headache trying to visualize how the act described in your last sentence can be performed. Ah, good thing I have these American-branded ibuprofen handy.
That last sentence is the real money quote. Nice punditry, Robert.
If some young lady offered to give me a handjob with her mouth the words “meek and voiceless” are the exact ones that come to my mind.
Perhaps that is owing to the wedding band on my finger and the relatively infrequency (ahem.. never) of such an occurance having ever taken place.
2 parts douchebag
3 parts poseur
2 parts narcissistic asshole
Mix well. Add skinny jeans, retarded “ironic” T-shirt, a messenger bag, and an iPhone.
Voila. Hipster.
I’m confused. Are we de-crying stereotypes about Asian women or about “hipsters?”
Also, I’m not sure if the Asian fetish plays a role in this case as much as the somewhat-attractive-chick-who-seems-pretty-easy fetish. I think the latter affects more people.
http://www.handjobwithmymouth.com/
Shit… yep… there it is without fail… the Drew Carey look-alike with hot Chinese chick banner ad.
“I want you to throw a hot dog down my hall.”
Don’t forget “Korean Abdul Jabar”!
50 bucks says this story is made into a film within the next year. ‘course it will be an “indie” film for the hipster crowd.
#5,
Yup. To argue it was because the guys had an Asian fetish is simply ignoring the obvious.
#6,
They come in Men’s sizes! Let’s all pitch in and send one to WJK for Christmas. LOL.
And yes, it had to happen — Hipster Grifter nude!
http://www.drivenbyboredom.com/2009/04/18/hipster-grifter-nudes/
(HT to reader)
In this day and age of communications at the speed of light and Internet access for all, one must think twice before screwing other ppl and emailing nude photos of one self…
Anyone else follow the links to Michael Phelps’ Asian girlfriend, a cocktail waitress? Here’s what I’m wondering: Why is it always the hipster, nerdy White guy’s fault?
Why don’t more articles probe the other perspective: why many Asian women find attractive Caucasian men many fellow Caucasian women wouldn’t touch.
Touche…
“When this story first broke, I had no idea what a “hipster” was.”
Nah, Rob. You’ve just been in Korea too long. Hey, it’s okay. I still think you’re cool…
http://photos.tmz.com/galleries/phelps_and_girl
Somehow his pot smoking makes more sense to me now…
t_song,
Actually, it goes both ways — a lot of white guys go for some ass-ugly Asian girls. I have seen many Asian girls with white guys and often barely suppressed the urge to run up to the guy, heartily shake his hands, and say “Thank you for removing her out of our gene pool!!”
Pssst!
Anyone wanna buy a match book (a.k.a. “bait”) from the Hipster Grifter?
http://cgi.ebay.com/Hipster-Grifter-Kari-Ferrells-matchbook-note-RARE_W0QQitemZ180348038217QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item180348038217&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50#ebayphotohosting
Also, I’m not sure if the Asian fetish plays a role in this case as much as the somewhat-attractive-chick-who-seems-pretty-easy fetish.
Riiight. That’s like saying the OJ Simpson trial had nothing to do with race. It’s like saying that the War in Iraq had nothing to do with oil. Denial is not a river in Egypt. Asian fetish is not a myth. It’s definitely a factor in this case although I will grant it’s only the icing on top of a multi-layered psycho cake.
The cesspool that is the American dating scene is governed by the kind of raw dynamics that one might encounter in a chaotic marketplace in a Third World shit-hole country. This is especially true in fifth-rate Babylons like NYC and LA, where many gyopo are concentrated. Pussy is like any other commodity. It is governed by the laws of supply and demand. If demand outpaces supply, the “price” of that commodity goes up. Due to this widespread Asian fetish phenomenon, Asian girls are fully aware that they are “in demand”. It’s not just white guys anymore, although collectively they still remain the biggest culprits in this game. Blacks, Hispanics, Arabs…they’re all starting to jump on the bandwagon. Thanks a lot you idiots. There’s all this demand now but Asian-Americans are still only 5% of the overall population. All this demand yet the supply is limited and small. What do you think is going to happen? That’s right, the price of Asian pussy is gonna go ballistic.
Just to give you a “tip of the iceberg” anecdotal example, awhile ago I used to chat with a Japanese girl who lived in California. One time, she told me that when she was in college, she was approached by a roommate about a “side business” in order to make extra money to help pay for tuition and books. Turns out this side business was an escort service. Apparently, on average, Asian escort girls command prices that are three to four times that of girls of any other ethnicity.
But in terms of the dating marketplace, what do I mean when I say the price of Asian pussy is going ballistic? It means that increasingly you are going to encounter high maintenance spoiled Princesses with an inflated sense of entitlement. It means you’re gonna encounter lots and lots of psycho’s. It gets even better… if you’re an Asian guy, your Asian-ness is a liability with these Über-Trendy Urban Bitches.That’s because they prefer a white guy. Why? Because even though its 2009, for many of these unreconstructed White-washed Twinkie bitches, “White is Right”. There’s a LOT of them out there. Asian women have such an inflated sense of entitlement that they turn they noses on men whom they suspect of having an Asian Fetish, even though they themselves have a White Guy Fetish (Asian female logic, don’t ask me, you figure it out). I know some Asian girls who are now accusing Asian guys of having an Asian Fetish (WTF?!?!).
Soooo, if you is a gyopo guy what do you do? How many of you are familiar with investing? What do they always say? You need to “diversify your portfolio”. I know too many Asian-American males who are stuck on exclusively finding an AA woman. Seriously, why?? Considering the reality that I’ve laid out above, that’s a STUPID strategy. Do the math, fools. This beta strategy makes us all look like chumps with no other options. Start diversifying your portfolio. Also, I’ve also noticed that for those who do diversify seem to have a fixation about white women. Again, a retard play. If there’s anything that rivals the price of Asian pussy is White pussy. By sheer logic and reason, you are in no position to be biased. Or in other words, beggars cannot be choosers.
The other advise is “buy low, sell high” or contrarian value investing. The American dating cesspool is heavily image/perception driven. However, the estimation of one’s worth is not always what society says it is. “Price” is not the same as intrinsic value. You need to learn to strip away the bullshit, the “marketing hype”, and learn to see the real value. Don’t be a lemming and be easily swayed by popular trends and conform so easily to the patterns of this world. Good luck and Godspeed.
I blame Hentai and Anime!
Ha! Didn’t use Japan. Take that Brendon Carr!
@NetKim
I’m really enjoying your daily rant. Surly.
But man–just try dating some White girls. Honestly, like 70% of the girls don’t give a shite about ethnicity and would easily date Asian guys should you prove yourself competent. When I was in college, I didn’t have girls throwing themselves at me like some of the White dudes who looked like Greek Gods, but I didn’t bust out MBA terminology when approach the ladies either: price, marketing, buy low, sell high. ㅋㅋㅋㅋ
@TK
I am very familiar with, as I say with my friends, the “Asian goggles.” Two words: John Lennon.
That’s an interesting theory, Netizen Kim. In which psychological journal did you read about this “widespread Asian fetish phenomenon?”
I’m not saying it never happens. But to be honest, due to a little thing called “confirmation bias,” I tend to disregard a lot peoples’ opinions about it.
Robert,
Damn, where DO you find these stories?
Anyway, let’s get the obvious over with. NK is hella entertaining, but also a sexist and a bigot. “Nough said. Worse, there is something decidedly 1980s about his rant, which leads to this….
We may be on the brink of a shift in the old Asian chick/white guy phenomenon. It’s now such a trope that to be cool in Seoul these days, white guys may have to NOT date an Asian girl to be cutting edge.
I know, I know, but consider this. Remember when only bikers and thrash metal bands sported tattoos? Then they became mainstream and even suburban teenage girls started getting tats on their lower backs. Now, tats are out and the stand-out kids are the ones without ‘em.
Sooooo, for those white dudes who still want to stand out on the streets of Seoul, it may be time to consider dating that cute Aussie you met last weekend at Caliente.
Or whatever.
DLB
In which psychological journal did you read about this “widespread Asian fetish phenomenon?”
Our firmly entrenched doctrine of Political Correctness doesn’t allow for a frank and open discussion of such sensitive taboo topics. Makes many people highly uncomfortable and ruffles too many stiff feathers. But I, a confirmed disciple of Fred Reed, will dare to walk confidently and boldly on grounds where angels fear to tread. My’s shit’s underground shit you’re reading, served fresh and raw, and you’re not going to find that in no Reader’s Digest or some sanitized academic journal of Ivory Tower mumbo-jumbo. Enjoy, Mofo’s.
NK is like Popov Vodka. Tries to pass himself off as a cheaper Smirnoff and thinks that being “unfiltered” is part of the charm.
I guarenttee you wjk would not have understood what I just wrote, but t_song and TheKorean would have.
Gee, Netizen Kim, I was already preparing a really good response for you. I thought it was gonna be one of my better posts.
But then you go ahead and say that you’re basically making all of your shit up. Kinda takes the wind out of my sails.
#27
I wasn’t making any shit up. All I was saying was that it’s not mainstream shit. Your response subtly reminds of an infamous quote by the 17th century French lawyer and mathematician Pierre de Fermat: I have a most wonderful proof of this proposition but this margin is too narrow to contain it., which drove number theorists crazy for three centuries. I’m gonna call your bluff. What’s your “really good response”? Let’s hear it.
wangkon is a hentai?
These things never end well . . .
Before we go into it, can we please clarify what we’re talking about? Because you yourself said that race is just “the icing on (the) cake” of this story, and that could be interpreted a number of ways, one of which would actually agree with my initial comment.
I’ll clarify first. I don’t think race was much of a factor in the hipster-grifter’s career. I’ll go further to say that the entire concept of Asian fetish simply doesn’t exist to the extent some people seem to think it does, although there are some very good reasons why people might get the wrong idea.
Also, let’s be clear here. What you are talking about is an “Asian preference,” not an “Asian fetish.” When you say that Asian fetishes are “widespread,” this is a contradiction. A fetish, by its nature, cannot be “widespread.” People commonly misuse the term. And as long as we’re talking terms, please don’t use the
term “twinkie,” or “banana,” or any other like it. I find such slurs deeply offensive.
wangkon is a hentai?
See. I told you he wouldn’t have understood.
NK,
Here is a little story to cheer you up. Now the white girls in Southern California come in different types and mindsets. The bitches in Newport Beach will go for looks or money or both if you have them. Lots of 25 year old blond bombshells driving a convertible bimmer that their sugar daddy bought them.
That’s one extreme. The other extreme are women in Long Beach, who are very much different. Much nicer and down to earth. I don’t know why. Maybe it’s the water. Any who, a number of years ago when I was bar crawling in Downtown Long Beach (back when I did stuff like that) I was in line to get into this club and there were a group of girls celebrating this chick’s bachelorette party. Obviously, the bachelorette is the one wearing the wedding veil and clubbing clothes. She was cute, blond hair and green eyes with a huge rack. This particular one had one side of a sandwich board hanging on her back with a list of names. So I asked this chick what the one side of the sandwich board was for and she told me if I gave her a dollar I could sign my name and ripe out one of the lifesaver candies with my mouth that she had sewed on her halter top. I’m like “No Way!” That sounds freak’in cool! Only one problem… I didn’t have a dollar!
So, fast forward and my buddy and I are in the club drinking, etc. I get my hands on a dollar and I bump into the bachelorette again. She’s a little buzzed and I’m a little buzzed and I notice there is only ONE lifesaver candy left on her halter top! And to make matter’s worse, it was around her belly button area. I mean hell, what’s the fun in that, right? Obviously, all the candies around her boob area is going to go first. However, this chick was super cool. I gave her my dollar and she moved her shirt and that sewed on lifesaver up to her boob right on her nipple and let me, uh, get perhaps more than my money’s worth. I have to say that she was super cool, super creative and I could never imagine an Asian girl doing the same thing.
This is just a story that’s amusing and light hearted enough that I was comfortable to share. Let’s just say that I’ve experienced enough to know that if you are an Asian guy and if you have decent social skills, decent looks and you are not a shorty or a FOB, then you’ve got as good a chance as any commensurate guy to attract a white girl.
I never liked the expression “Asian fetish.” So I like skinny women with black hair, big whoop. When I hear the word fetish, I think of anal beads or bestiality.
The game is called “suck for a buck”, and it is something that the Korean Girlfriend organized for her friend’s bachelorette party. The would-be bride is Asian. You damn dirty bigot! How dare you insult the debauchery potential of Asian girls!
You take our women, we brand you evil men. What’s the big problem here?
Just kidding. I don’t give a shit.
Except when asian girls say kissing an asian guy feels like kissing their brother or cousin. That is just…disturbing.
#18
Actually, it goes both ways — a lot of white guys go for some ass-ugly Asian girls. I have seen many Asian girls with white guys and often barely suppressed the urge to run up to the guy, heartily shake his hands, and say “Thank you for removing her out of our gene pool!!”
That is a pitiful, weak, cop-out attitude and you know it. You are in denial.
It is not, as you put it, “ass-ugly Asian girls”, who are on the losing end of this Darwinian struggle. And not all of them are ass-ugly. It is you and me…Asian guys in general, who face the stark realities of natural selection. Way too many of us are, for one reason or another, FAILING to step up to the plate. Way too many of us are FAILING to adapt to a radically changing environment. Natural history teaches us that if you fail to adapt to challenges in the environment, you don’t survive. You don’t get to pass on your genes to progeny. You get extinctified.
A lot of you are in denial. A lot of you are utterly clueless and live in a bubble. A lot of you are pampered Mama’s boys who have FAILED to cut the umbilical cord and have been thoroughly brainwashed by society’s Political Correctness doctrine of colorblind know-nothingism. It’s so fucking pathetic, I am at a loss for words sometimes. Once, in gyopo 2nd gen church that I used to attend, there was a heated debate between a girl and a guy (both gyopos). They were arguing about dating. Tell me, what other group of single people do you know argues about dating between gender?? I won’t get into all the details about what was said but in the end the chick said to the dude (in her best Valley girl accent), “you guys are soooo way behind the curve.” That’s not the first or only time I’ve heard that said within such context. Think about that for a moment. Who are they comparing you to?
Well, the Girlfriend is obviously a lot more assimilated than you are… and likely 2nd generation… and I would never insult the debauchery potential of Asian girls! I celebrate it!
Actually, TKG has a very similar profile as I do, coming to America at age 14 — hence, we get along great. But yes, she and her friends are rather, um, liberated, which I appreciate.
Hey NetizenKim, got any tips on hooking up with indian american girlz? I see lots of them on a weekly basis, and the closest I’ve been to getting a feel for their culture was watching Bend it like Beckham, so…maybe you can help me out here.
You mean you appreciate her “liberated” friends too!!! Please, do tell… uh I mean you perv!
Ah shit, that was a british indian girl in taht movie too…
Hey, I live in Jersey too, so help me out
You’re asking Mr. Angry Pants for girl advice??? You need more work then I thought!
Please, Wangkon, you west coast people seem to get along just grrreat. I’m trying to build some east coast solidarity here. BACK OFF
There’s research that shows that people tend to date/mate with those who meet this remarkable property: proximity.
Only 5% of America’s population is Asian, but where does the average Asian American live? Probably in an area where there are many Asians. Seen this way, I’d say the average Asian guy or gal has plenty enough choice or opportunity to date within his/her line.
I’m a post-white-washed sort of fellow. I have no real preferences for race, but I probably lean a little (to the left) toward non-Korean.
Perhaps… but I confess that “meek and voiceless” would not be the words to come to mind if some young lady offered to give me a handjob with her mouth.
Asian fetish, like a mutating virus, has evolved over time. The “meek, obsequious, voiceless” version hold true mostly for an older generation white males, those who grew up on a steady diet of WWII movies, the Karate Kid, and any novel written by James Clavell, among other things. Let’s face it, this is the reason why a good many of you went to Asia in the first place. Asian fetish also goes hand-in-hand with a dose of schaudenfreude regarding Western women and the myriad effects of a generation of Western feminism.
Response to this traditional meek stereotype which they find distasteful, since the late 80s/early 90s Asian-American women have been modeling themselves after the likes of Margaret Cho, Lucy Liu, Sandra Oh…a whole new breed of outspoken, over-compensating Asian-American women copping bitchy attitude. I don’t know how it is in Korea nowadays but this is how it is now Stateside.
You white guys are clueless also in your own white-boyish ways. Instinctively, you sense that this Asian fetish thing is not a good thing in some way, if only because many Asian women are now being vocal about it. Scores of evidence given by White Expats with Korean Wife(TM) claiming that their spouse is the complete opposite of the “traditional obsequious Asian woman” stereotype bears testimony to this fact. You guys haven’t figured out how to navigate around the hidden land mines in the no man’s lands of Political Correctness. Hell, you Whites have been around Blacks for hundreds of years, from slavery to Jim Crow to Obama, and you’s STILL haven’t figured them out either(duh..why is it they can call themselves niggers but we can’t and other assorted cluelessness). So…best to pretend this thing called Asian Fetish doesn’t exist…I understand. I’m almost closing in on 3rd base and this black girl asks me if I just out for an “exotic fling” with a black girl or some such thing. How the fuck are you supposed to answer that besides stuttering “Uhhhhh..uh….well, uh…Hmmmm”?
Re: White Expats with Korean Wife[sic] TM
This one is one of my favorites. Put a white guy in country with 5,000 white women, and 20 million Korean women. If he winds up with a Korean woman, it’s because of ASIAN FETISH!
Or basic probability. It’s not quite as controversial, but it has the added bonus making sense.
I’ll say it again — the longer you stay here, the more exotic white women seem.
by asking, “are *you*?”
reverse the situ, you don’t quite get the same statistics.., when all my white male friends in europe started dating chinese (not just asian, but chinese) girls who started to be seen in more numbers than before in London, i told them, “can you not find a non-yellow girl? i’m embarrassed to be seen with you guys now” and they mumbled something like,”well, you have one in four chance in the world it would be a chinese girl.. it’s just statistics” …
With my “white” male friends… puahahah… somehow I’m still not convinced.
#39
Hey NetizenKim, got any tips on hooking up with indian american girlz? I see lots of them on a weekly basis, and the closest I’ve been to getting a feel for their culture was watching Bend it like Beckham, so…maybe you can help me out here.
First, go jump out of an airplane. No seriously. Go sky diving or do something similarly extreme and challenging that scares the living bejezzus out of you. After you do some crazy shit like that, and live to tell the tale, a little thing like approaching a random chick will seem like nothing.
Next, take a good hard look in the mirror. Ask that SOB: who the fuck are you? What the fuck are you? You gotta know who you are and what you are about on some fundamental level. Figure it out and be comfortable within your skin. Otherwise, you’d be a confused poseur.
Are you in a Korean church? Get the fuck outta there. Churches are doing a fantastic job of emasculating and confusing our youth. Ever notice how most pastors talk and act like fags? They’re no role models for impressionable male minds.
Step up to the plate. Don’t be a wuss. Don’t be a pussy. Don’t be a coward. Have some balls. Bitches are evolutionarily wired to instinctively smell a lack of confidence from a male from a million miles away and that’s NOT attractive. Make direct eye contact. If she reciprocates in kind, you smile, she smiles and after you establish this non-verbal hand-shaking you walk over and say something. It’s not rocket science. If she don’t bite, no hard feelings, just move on to the next available bitch. Wash, rinse, repeat. It’s a numbers game. If you’re the type for whom women don’t naturally gravitate toward you, you must increase your effort. If your buddy has a 10% success rate with the ladies and you have only 5%, you gotta double your approaches in order to achieve the same result. You get the idea. Even if you’re not good at it, approaching women is a skill that can be learned, just like public speaking or whatever. Don’t be afraid of failure or rejection. You WILL get rejected….LOTS. In fact, it’s your job to get as many rejections as possible.
Don’t beat around the bush. Women love it when you demonstrate BALLS. Don’t be an arrogant asshat either though, there’s a fine line which you have to figure out for yourself. Don’t be a fricking tool or a clown either.
Since the girl’s a minority also DON’T dwell on her ethnicity too much. Generally, that’s a mistake. Since your target happens to be a Desi, for God’s sake don’t make foolish jokes about Bollywood or Apu from the Simpsons. Don’t bother her millions of questions about her Indian heritage either. If she’s 2nd gen and grew up in America, most likely she don’t know jack shit about her own culture either. In my experience, middle-class, educated Black chicks hate it when all you ever talk about is hip-hop or some other stereotypically “black” nonsense. That can be highly annoying. I would imagine this general rule extrapolates to all women of color, give or take, YMMV. Instead, talk about that time you jumped out of an airplane.
If you are with a white woman or a black woman, YOU will get stared at A LOT. Asian women may glare at you and give you the evil eye. If you are a newbie at this, this may affect your public physical behavior with the chick. You feel awkward act awkward and you’re unconsciously putting physical distance between yourself and her. Bad move. Don’t mind the starers.
Don’t be a “Mr Nice Guy”. That’s boring. If the chick’s attractive, you gotta be cocky and funny. Don’t be a doormat. Be funny but don’t strain yourself to be a constant non-stop comedian either.
Be creative. Chat up the cashier girl at the supermarket. They’re bored outta their frickin minds. Immerse yourself where there’s a steady traffic of fine bitches.
what are you not convinced about?
that i am korean, or female?
or that i can be korean female and have white male friends?
NetizenKim,
Nah, man. Try to rationalize it as much as you want, you’re still overlooking the fact that most young guys’ like a sure thing. She even suggested it herself. Throwing a hot dog down a hallway is a euphemism for having sex with a very promiscuous woman.
Hahahaha… Kari Ferrell already has a celebrity impersonator!
http://gawker.com/5217024/kari-ferrell-is-memetastic
Wow… the hits keep coming!
Hipster Grifter responds to her critics from… her “fucking” iphone…
http://gawker.com/5216263/the-hipster-grifters-charm-in-action?skyline=true&s=i
#53
Someguy, you don’t understand. Either that or you’re deliberately being obtuse. I’m not rationalizing anything. I’m just telling it like it is. It’s no big secret that Asian women is the ongoing “flavor of the month”, that you guys go all ga-ga goo-goo about them. Everyone with half a brain is fully aware of this. In NYC, it is damn near an epidemic, and in the hipster community, well, apparently they’re like a bunch of grown kids who never really outgrew high school and they’re all about trendy artsy-fartsy bullshit and the hip cool thing. An Asian GF is ostensibly a MUST-HAVE fashion accessory for the self-respecting metrosexual emo hipster crypto-fag.
Yeah, Kari Ferrell (is she related to Will?) was very suggestively promiscuous with her male victims. Had she not been Asian mostly likely the same thing would have happened also. But I’m pretty damn sure that she being a “hot Asian chick” didn’t hurt either and in fact gave her added confidence that she’d succeed in her schemes. You and other guys may try to deny as best as you can muster but Asian women themselves know full well that there’s such a thing as Asian fetish since they go through it on a constant basis. Ms Ferrell is obviously no exception and she was counting on it in her deceptions to weave a thick spell around her victims. I feel a bit sorry for the guys, they were probably nice guys who didn’t deserve any of this but damn did they get played and so expertly too.
Today, it’s just a bizarre and somewhat funny incident and we laugh at it. But it has been demonstrated that Asian Fetish does in fact exist, that it can be used as a tool of deception, and that White guys can easily fall for it. In the years to come, as a new kind of superpower rivalry brews between a rising China and the US, this will increasingly emerge as a national security risk in spy games.
On a personal note, Asian fetish has resulted in tragedy. I knew a young Japanese-American chick a while back, a friend of a friend actually. Somewhat insecure and in constant need of some kind of validation. She got herself tattoos (just like Ms Ferrell) and a Suzuki Ninja motorcycle. She wanted to be “the hot Asian chick with a bike”, her own words. One day she got into a serious accident on that bike and she suffered severe trauma to the head. She ended up a vegetable.
sounds more like a giant robot fetish.
Alright NK. Re: your last comment.
You started out okay, actually. You restated your point in case there are any rockheads who haven’t caught it by now. It would be great if you had any evidence whatsoever, but I suppose you personally don’t need any, as you can apparently read the minds of all white men, everywhere. Your second paragraph was okay, too. If you had stopped there, you would have only come off as a slightly sad ranter with nothing to back up his racist and hateful claims (the insinuation that all white men are incapable of anything other than skin-deep relationships is racist. You do realize that, right?).
But then you veered off into crazy town. First, the obligatory China vs. US conspiracy theory. Then, the finale: a personal anecdote about someone who was in a motorcycle accident because of ASIAN FETISH! A cautionary tale about how ASIAN FETISH will force you to buy motorcycles and crash them.
I think what I find most disturbing of all is the notion that this stuff actually makes sense to you in your mind.
Check this out! It’s a story loosely based on my life in Korea (and maybe you too), except I never taught English:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNd-I-wfyeE
cmm
“Wash, rinse, repeat. It’s a numbers game.”
Its and old established tactic if you’re up for it. Not my style but a friend of mine, frequently took a few slaps in the face, but almost always left the club with someone.
Why’s it have to even be an asian preference, in my case its a simple aversion to light skin, light hair, particularly carrot tops and freckle faces. No idea why maybe it was an evil babysitter.
It just so happens that asians generally fit the acceptable criteria, of olive skin and dark hair but then so did italians, greek, spanish etc, and many others…
NK,
Cut the a little girl from slack (for relying on Asian fetishes, not for her grifting). She was raised in Utah and I wouldn’t be suprised if she was the only Asian kid in her K-12 years. She’s short, average looking (by any standard) and every time she looked in the mirror shortly before and after puberty she saw someone very different from her friends and classmates. Despite being the odd duck in her White pond she was still an attention whore. The whole Asian fetish angle nympho was probably all that she had in order to compete with the blond, blue eyed and 5-5 to 5-7 inch girls. Putting a tatoo over her chest was probably the only way someone with a 32B can compete with all the 34Bs and C cups out there. The fact that she used all this at her disposal is a sign of a tremendous amount of insecurity, not strength.
NK, you should submit your “article” to http://koreanalyst.wordpress.com/ as a guest post.
Lets shake the academic world, baby.
Honestly, Asian fetish is so obvious, even if White guys don’t want to admit it, when they say they want to marry a “Korean girl” or they admonish the women because of a pre-conceived image.
True, people can fall in love, naturally, but I feel like so many White guys/Westerners view Asian/Asian American girls with a perspective that is built by old, untrue stereotypes.
I always love it when the white guy says: Hey, my Korean girlfriend/wife is different from other Koreans. That usually means she speaks up, isn’t subservient, blah blah blah.
But I grew up my entire life with f’ing Koreans and not only was my Mom and other ajumma-dull complete bad asses, my sister talks up a helluva lot more than my loud ass.
That’s what bothers me about the Asian fetish. Fetish is a loaded word, for sure, but I’ve actually heard guys say: i want to meet a k-girl because i need someone who is quiet and will support me.
F*** that. If I tried pulling that bullshit, the only support I’d get is a kick to the bloody crotch.
@t_song Haha, yah it’s so true. I never had the luxury of thinking Asian girls were quiet and docile either. While I hadn’t known many, almost all of them where extremely “energetic”, enough so that it immediately ruled out any possibility attraction.
It wasn’t till I started traveling around that I met any Asian girl who wasn’t borderline crazy.
t_song:
So what, then, are these white guys with an “Asian fetish” looking for? Are they looking for a subservient, quiet woman who doesn’t actually exist, but staying with her for more than a month for some other reason?
Or do they want a woman who looks Asian but doesn’t act according to stereotypes?
If what you say is true, why do these white men marry Korean women? After a few months of dating, even stupid white guys know what they’re getting into.
I would argue stupid White Guy DOESN’T know what he’s getting himself into. If that were the case, then why would those same White guys be astonished that “their” wife/gf is so “not like other Korean girls.”
God, if you sent that through Dave’s ESL search, you’d find a jillion and a half hits.
I think what you bring up is EXACTLY what Asian fetish is–it is NOT merely that a white guy is dating an Asian chick. I have no problem with that–I’ve done interracial dating myself. But coming from a male gyopo perspective, from all of the White females I dated, I can say none of them were Manga fans or loved Chopsticks–they liked me because we just clicked.
I’m not sayint that CAN’T happen with WM/AF couples, but I think more times than not, those WMs like the AFs, not even for their looks, but for the pre-disposed notion of what they BELIEVE the AF to be. It’s a mirage.
And that, as the “my Korean wife/gf is so not like other Koreans” is clear evidence of teh fetish. Fetish is not a tendency to be attracted to certain types of girls (ever heard of a Blondie fetish?). While blondes have teh stereotype of being ditzes, it is not BROADLY applied to ALL blondes like how most WMs BROADLY apply notions. I’d say WMs don’t do it because they’re culturally insensitive or naieve, but because the pop culture partly trains them to and partly because of the fetish element.
알았지?
“I’m just telling it like it is. It’s no big secret that Asian women is the ongoing “flavor of the month”, that you guys go all ga-ga goo-goo about them. ”
Flavour of the month? What about the fact that men have liked a sure thing since the stone ages? What about the fact she is a gifted manipulator?
She would have just as many suckers if she was white or black–I’ll admit, maybe not the same suckers, but just as many nonetheless.
Correction…
She would have found just as many…
“I’m not sayint that CAN’T happen with WM/AF couples, but I think more times than not, those WMs like the AFs, not even for their looks, but for the pre-disposed notion of what they BELIEVE the AF to be. It’s a mirage.”
This is what I disagree with. On the contrary, I think the reason white guys like Asian girls is precisely because of their looks (I hate to use that awful word “exotic”, but I will, plus Korean girls are often in far better shape than their western counterparts). I don’t buy the notion that white guys mainly date/marry Korean girls because of the Manga or chopstick love. That does happen, but I think that more often than not guys just think with their dicks and want a good looking girl. You’d be surprised (or maybe not) how little we give a shit about personality, whether she is outspoken or obedient.
I’ll drink to that.
t_song,
I think I may actually agree with you. But there are still a few things I’m not getting. Is it your understanding that thousands of white guys are waking up next to their Korean wives every day, continually astonished that she doesn’t behave like a docile butterfly? Do they then go to sleep with same wives every night expecting that any day now, their wives will become the subservient Asian dolls that they’ve been dreaming of?
I honestly can’t see this scenario ever actually leading to marriage, or even more than a few weeks of dating. Even if we assume that white dudes are after some imagined image of quiet Asian fragility (which is a sketchy assumption, in my experience), I simply can’t imagine these guys staying in the relationship.
And while I’ve heard a lot of white dudes say, “My wife/girlfriend isn’t like all the other Korean women,” the ones I know always meant that as a compliment.
Netizen Kim,
I have a question for you, or a couple of questions, to boil things down a little bit:
Should white men not date/marry Asian women, or vice versa? Is there something wrong with interracial relationships, and, if so, is the WM/AF relationship more wrong than others?
“True, people can fall in love…”
Yes, my wife and I have. Been together for nearly a decade.
“but I feel like so many White guys/Westerners view Asian/Asian American girls with a perspective that is built by old, untrue stereotypes.”
Define many. 10%, 50%, 99%? That is a racist stereotype, no matter how you try to ease into it.
#73,
I doubt you’ll see an honest and clear answer to that one.
But the smooth, hairless bodies and relatively odorless underarms of Korean man excel their Mediterranean counterparts. And Koreans age better, too, with fewer wrinkles but more age spots, which are less unattractive, IMO.
man = men
LOL @ chnlove.com
all the dudes are fat and ugly.
#72,
These poor clueless guys are in for a surprise when their girlfriends feel comfortable enough to fart in their presence. LOL
How come no one is complaining about Sonagi’s asian fetish?
I for one I’m absolutely offended by her physically objectifying us and stereotyping. It’s so dehumanizing…
Perhaps if yuna would drop the odd clearly-feminine comment about how much nicer it is to get naked with a breed of man that has virtually no armpit odor, it might halt the conjectures on her sex.
“How come no one is complaining about Sonagi’s asian fetish?”
Because it’s not the “fetish” in itself that is offensive. It’s the pre, sub, con or whatever text of a fetish that makes it offensive.
Anyway, I’m not offended by WFs who are interested in AMs because such interests have the tenor of being inclusive. And the group being included here are the underdogs. We can all sort of route for that. Pure goodness.
On the other hand, the innocence of the fetish is not absolute. I’ll try to imagine a scenario in which it can be offensive. It’s gonna take a while, though, because I’m biased and can’t imagine a more perfect world than one in which I’m having to beat off women with a stick, run away from their predatory clutches in constant fear of being gang raped by blondes and redheads, especially those who particularly want to sniff my underarms and leave me the next morning.
route –> root
#83,
I’m sure we all try to root as often as we can.
There are many types of “fetishes”, which I define as simply an overblown preference of one characteristic (real or imagined) over others.
Personally, I like dark hair, but I certainly wouldn’t avoid girls with blonde hair because of that.
It has been my experience watching others that fetishes can involve any characteristic about something, being looks, or behavior.
Have any of you ever encountered a girl who acts really cutsie in front of guys, but acts differently around just her girlfriends? She’s playing to a fetish that some guys have.
Interestingly enough, I do have something of an “Asian” fetish in a roundabout sort of way. While many Indian (from India) girls are kinda bleh, when they are pretty, they are REALLY pretty, compared to other “races”. But I’m certainly not stalking blogs made by english teachers talking about India.
That would be silly.
Didn’t you hear? The new rage for fetish is bundling. Like feetmanseoul-asian, foot, voyeur and fashion fetishes together in one package!
First off, anyone else disturbed by these fucking Web site ads. I’m sure rjkoehler makes shits load of money from them, but it’s so gross, particulary when my mind is framed on this type of conversation, to see both the Koreancupid and the flabby white dude nuzzling the unattractive Asian chick. It’s like they are parodies for fugly.com
Anywho, I don’t know how to italicize, but:
@Gran
–And while I’ve heard a lot of white dudes say, “My wife/girlfriend isn’t like all the other Korean women,” the ones I know always meant that as a compliment.
This is part of my point. Those types of guys are the most severely fetish-izing Asian women and culture. Would you tell a white American girl: “you are so unlike American women; you are such a homebody, conservative and like to cook.” (bad examples but I digress)
Most of us Westerners here would immediately knock that down, call it sexist, baffoonish, etc. Right?
So, even if it be shameful to admit or forgotten in some back part of the brain, that type of mentality, that there is a sort of “uniform” Korean women, not only illustrates how single-mindedly you view the culture, but, frankly, how little you do know–if that amounts to anything at all.
Why an entire country of females, especially a modernized one, gets tossed in this bucket of “nice, traditional Korean woman” is beyond me.
So if you can’t imagine that “situation” happening, where the guy sticks with the girl despite his pre-conceived notions being broken, maybe it’s because, despite the relationship developing, maybe even to marriage, the guy refuses to see it any other way.
It reminds me of James Stewart and Kim Novak’s two characters in Vertigo. You see what you want to see type of shit.
Listen: I have no bones of AF/WM or AM/WF relationships. I’ve long touted my two-way Shallow Hal theory, where two sub-standard looking people from their own countries, find each other and view each other as great “catches.” That’s fucking awesome. Amen to beauty is inner beauty, but true beauty is genuinely beautifying the unbeautiful.
Also, I’ve been in interracial relationships, my sis has been in one. Based on this experience — from the gyopo POV — we both sort of bristled at people who liked us simply b/c of what we represented, or what positive memory recall we might give to Crouching Tiger or 2 Fast 2 Furious. But as I”m sort of railing against native Koreans and Westerners, I’m recalling meeting Korean women set to marry “Dave,” and their telling me why they’re hitching up with him is because they want to see the world, or travel, or live in a different country. Eek!
While I was in Korea, many — though not all — of my friends were gyopos, and we had a diverse crowd. I’m sure the White Male population that reads Korean blogs isn’t your token bloke in Korea just there to get some Korean takeout. By reading these blogs, you’re showing an interest. I can’t pin a percentage on tools versus non-tools, as you probably can’t produce an empirical for the reverse.
But still, what did I read above? Some guy said he prefers Azns because they are thinner and look better and age better? Wow–I could say many things about that, but perhaps they’ve never heard or seen of the blink-of-an-eye transformation Asian women have where they go from looking youngish into their young to mid 40s to looking almost indistinguishable from men.
Pa-ma!
“Anyway, I’m not offended by WFs who are interested in AMs because such interests have the tenor of being inclusive. And the group being included here are the underdogs. We can all sort of route for that. Pure goodness.”
Gee, that’s not one bit hypocritical at all.
#87,
Just for fun, ask Sonagi how many times she was asked by a Korean man if she was a Russian hooker while she was in Korea.
…simply put, try to refrain from gross generalizations. There are morons in every ethnic group.
I’m not saying that there aren’t people – male and female – who fetishize Asian women, but what’s described in this mishigas isn’t fetishism. That’s, e.g., the guy who pays a WG in Itaewon 2 million won to watch her smoke a cigarette and move a high-heeled shoe around on her leg crossed just so as to reveal the crotch of her pantys while he masturbates to completion within fifteen minutes.
LOL
actually sonagi, I think most of the men here would agree with you. we generally prefer our lovers with smooth hairless bodies and armpits that don’t smell.
don’t read anything into this please.
In Korea, the native males put plenty of work into sowing the seeds of doubt into female minds when it comes to the Great White Cock:
“Western men only want one night stands. They’ll just use you and throw you away.”
“Western men have high rates of AIDS.”
“Western men are playboys…he’ll definitely cheat on you.”
“Western men don’t take marriage seriously and will divorce at the drop of a hat.”
And my all-time favorite: “Western men and Korean women don’t fit biologically,” which is code for “HIS COCK WILL HURT YOU!”
The funny thing is, that stuff used to work (except the last one, which usually elicited the response “That sounds FANTASTIC!”), primarily because most Korean women didn’t actually know anyone that had married a Western man, so they had no points of reference to compare against.
Nowadays, it’s become common enough that by the time they get to marrying age, most Korean women have several friends, co-workers, or relatives that have tasted the white meat and liked it, and so the nasty stereotypes perpetuated by the insecure ‘shi army really never gain traction.
Of course you gyopos that want to shoulder that “We must protect our rightful property” burden have to take a different angle here in the states, because given their familiarity with the culture, most of the old scare tactics will get nothing but a laugh from KA womyns.
So what’s left? ASIAN FETISH!
“He’s just got yellow fever.”
“He doesn’t really love you, it’s just a fetish.”
“He only hits on Asian girls, that dude’s got a fetish.”
“I bet he asks you to put the schoolgirl uniform on.”
“A fetish can’t lead to true love.”
Seriously, god bless you for trying, cause it’s yeoman’s work trying to push that shit onto women that for the most part can easily differentiate between a nutter that wants to put her in a Sailor Moon, shave her giner and watch eels fly out of her ass (2%), and a guy that just thinks she’s hot (98%).
The reality is, the horse is out of the barn. There’s nothing the ‘shi can do anymore to scare native Korean women away from white meat as the taboo has been broken culturally, and 99% of KA women that hear Netizen Kim’s horseshit are going to laugh him out of the room. I’m sure he’ll keep grinding on in the hope that he’ll hit that 1%, but honestly he’d be better off peddling his whitey-frightey routine back in the motherland. Although even there he’d have to go out into the boonies to get a receptive audience.
Colontos, NK has been selling his “WM/AF couples can never attain true love” theory here for the past few years. He’s said repeatedly that the AF half is always psychologically confused/damaged/abused, and that the WM half is all fetish/predator. According to NK, when it comes to AFs, interracial marriage is an unforgiveable sin and a sign of mental instability. Of course he then tells all kinds of stories about all the black, Jewish, and Latin women he’s dated, which makes him look like the biggest hypocritical douche on the planet. He knows this, and doesn’t care.
Linkd – you meant “drop” as in “make the occasional” not “drop” as in “stop”, right?
for a moment i was confused..
I thought I told you to stop following me around.
Difficult not to when that sort of behavior means I can get unsloppy seconds for free.
Colloquial English. “drop” as in “drop a hint/reference/clue/line…” Drop can mean “to say”, or in this case, write.
Definitely not drop as in “stop”. Post away, girl!
during the colonial periods, the sort of white women who fell in love with men from colonies, also seem to fall under a certain category, and i still see that around now – scholarly, motherly, well-read & nice women needing the softer, sensitive side of the male sex to complete them, and not into the rah rah & obvious male macho.
in the public eye, how about obama’s mother? she seems to typify a lot of such women i have come across, though i didn’t know her personally..
our personal preference of a certain type evolves over time, so the global types and preferences will evolve as well once everyone knows everyone well.. and anyway, it’s quite often the ones who are not “your type” you fall hard for..
there is a book called “free food for millionaires” which is really an airport mills and boon, but nevertheless, has some interesting generalizations into love between the american kyopos , as well as white men into asian women types – i thought little of the obvious and blatant korean parent-child conflict in the beginning but – the book is just full of the generalized description of everyone, from the relationships to the life of brokers in NY, it was quite fun to read in a guilty way.
btw, walking under blueballs’ comment with your gaze averted to ask me that was proof enough for me that you’re a chick.
i read “bluebells” first, i thought i was seen walking in some forest with my gaze averted..
, but it’s usually provoked and has to do with koreans being misread by foreigners, and i have much faith that i am attractive enough to both koreans and non-koreans that i don’t feel belittled by type-casting.
anyway.
iheart’s comments are always so angry, like his avatar. i can quickly skim over his comments without taking much in.
i get angry often too , because i am a korean
Angry? Heavens, no. iheartblueballs is a warrior without a shred of political correctness. He has a keen bullshit detector, and attacks nonsense and self-deception with a vengeance, but he’s not angry. Try to appreciate him while he’s around, cuz he usually only lets his balls slap Netizen Kim’s chin for a couple of months a year.
i’ll try to (appreciate him) but it’s hard to imagine his replies without the trainspotting soundtrack, and the image of a thin man with a scottish accent and a shaved head reading them out. i’m hearing contempt (not to me) again, where there is none.
Never by a Korean man. Once asked if a friend and I were Russian by a couple of Middle Eastern men.
Actually, Mr. Blueballs, despite his flair for, ahem, colorful writing, touched on a topic that kept running through my head as I read about all of this “Asian fetish” demonization. Namely how historically, slanders against a group of people, especially along racial lines, so often include “They’re after our women!” rhetoric. White Americans said it about blacks in the 18th and 19th centuries, and some still do. European colonists said it about anybody who looked different. Islamic extremists said it (and continue to say it) about everybody who isn’t an Islamic extremist.
I don’t want to make too much of this, because we’re talking about white males, and likening them to oppressed minorities isn’t about to win any hearts and minds. But it does provide an interesting historical backdrop for the idea of the “Asian fetish.”
t_song:
Good post, I mostly agree with you. But it seems like what your talking about is not so much “fetishizing” as much as good old fashioned stereotyping. It’s offensive, but it’s also hugely widespread, and in bi-racial relationships, it’s certainly not one-way.
i bet you iheartblueballs masturbates before and after typing here.
my mum has maintained her slender figure and fashion sense and has kept her movie-star looks without any surgery – she falls under a new 줌마렐라 type..
the instant transformation from agassi to ajumma and especially pama (ajummas say it’s the hairstyle most easy & cheap to maintain albeit this is mistaken) – comes from the older generation way of thinking- after marriage they should put husband and children before everything including sacrificing their own looks and having their own life.
this is changing.
Hot and cold, yuna. (I don’t want to get deep into semantics, because NK and blueballs both write really well, and it’s tacky to use words to describe art, but here I go anyway).
Contempt is cold. Anger is hot. blueballs, I think, does show real contempt for self-deception and bullshit. So does NK, although NK isn’t as cold as blueballs.
If you ask, for example, some Canadians, “What’s so great about Canada and Canadians? What value does Canada bring to the rest of the world?” you’ll get some answers that outsiders would point at and say “Those fucking Canadians are just deceiving themselves about how great they are.”
So what if you repeat this test with Koreans? What’s so great about Korea? Try to answer with anything you can’t support, and blueballs will clobber you. What’s so great about white guys in Korea? Let a white guy speak up with anything in his own defense, and NK is ready with a crap-shooter (careful, it’s probably got jizz on it).
For my tastes, the best writing comes when it stays cold. Cold separates the good scrappers from the idiots. If you get angry at blueballs, he’ll probably think you’re an idiot. He doesn’t mind making people angry, because that’s just helping them show what an idiot they are.
contempt usually doesn’t come in such a long reply, and ihbb’s reply above was a little on the long side.
by the way i remember loving alberto moravia’s book “contempt”..i think contempt must border on an almost-null engagement and ihbb’s certainly fully engaged when he does.
I haven’t heard 줌마렐라 in conversation before, but that’s a great term for someone who’s already past the 미씨족 stage in life.
yuna, I love literature, and from some of your posts, I gather you do as well. Alberto Moravia is a new name to me, but based on your recommendation, I’m going to try him out. Thanks~
I wish. I’m sure Google, though, makes a shit load of money from them. And I’ve never seen the “flabby white dude nuzzling the unattractive Asian chick” ad. Might depend on which country you’re viewing from.
Have it your way. Me ‘n Baby Linkd are gonna go crack one.
It’s not, actually.
First of all, I don’t have any history of WM-AF bashing. And the very point of my post was that what makes some “fetishes” offensive are the conditions surrounding them. Those conditions – whatever conditions those are that may make the “Asian fetish” offensive – don’t apply for whatever fetish a white woman may have for an Asian male. The natures of the two are different, so where the fuck can my hypocricy be?
#104,
Blond or brunette?
#105,
So true.
As Blueballs so forcefully pointed out, “Asian fetish” is a smokesceen invented by insecure Korean Americans rather than a real phenomenon.
Quite simply, fetishism refers to an obsessive identification of an object with sexual pleasure, not dating someone of another race or nationality.
Being visual-oriented and promiscuous, men go through various preferences, and simply try out all flavors, including redheads, blondes, brunettes, bald chicks, black chicks, Puerto Ricans, short girls, tall girls, girls with braces, younger, older, goth chicks, hippie chicks, nazi chicks vegetarians, tomboys, and, oh, yes, even Asians. I’ve sampled them all myself.
What about those telling comments is the one about “dorky white dudes with hot Asian chicks,” or “white guys with but-ugly Asian chicks.” Revealing stereotypes.
First of all, there is no such thing as a “hot chick” – only ordinary women that you may find fleetingly attractive. As for “dorky,” think of all the dorky Asian men with hot chicks. Anytime an insecure male sees a guy with an attractive woman, he tends to describe the guy as dorky.
What about Asian men with butt-ugly Asian chicks? That sure describes a large percentage of Korean marriages.
For the most part, what you’ll find in Korea or abroad are average-looking people pairing off with one another, which is their right.
Can anyone help me understand what the hell 줌마렐라 means? I’m guessing 줌마 comes from 아줌마 of course, but what awkward English word is 렐라 flecking off from?
Or is it a Korean word?
@ dog
I’m in the States, and I’m applying the “anywhere you live is the center of the universe” theory, obviously
#114,
Right, so guys couldn’t possibly be physically attracted to Asian gals because we all know that men like big breasted women, as a matter of fact, the bigger the better, right?
…I guess you’re fixation on the ‘submissive’ thing says more about your own fetishes than anything else.
As for hypocrisy…Ever heard the proverb “What’s sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander”?
t_song, it’s an amalgam of ajjumma and Cinderella (아줌마 + 신데렐라).
abcdefg,
After what you wrote regarding the aspects of genius, I’m disappointed to see such an inarticulate response here. “Whatever they may be, they don’t apply” – this is really weak, no?
Well, in the Western context, the Asian fetish sprouts from pop culture and stereotypes (where stereotypes become fetishes is when the stereotype isn’t that black people dance, asians are good at math, but rather an exotic, commodified one; don’t any of you have non-Fob Asian American female friends? I’m guessing most of you don’t from your lack of acknowledgment that this happens).
Whereas there are no such fetish-izing stereotypes of Asian men in Western culture. If anything, unless we meet someone who by chance loves Korean dramas, we have to win girls without the benefit of matching a woman’s 이상형.
“Whereas there are no such fetish-izing stereotypes of Asian men in Western culture.”
Nonsense, t-song. Aside from the fact that fetish is not the proper term for an attraction to a particular profile, like most opinion-based generalizations based on circular logic, this one proves hollow. What about the nearly supernatural qualities attributed to a the Kung-Fu type character embodied by, say, Bruce Lee – that combination of quiet gentleness, being in touch with nature and self and in possession of tremendous power, and having the wisdom of judgement to know when to apply it?
For some women, Asian men embody the qualities of solid work ethic, high professional qualifications and greater than average earning abilities.
A preference for Asian men does exist, although it is not exploited to the extent that women (of any type) are exploited for their sexuality.
Well my point is that the fixation on sexuality is what makes it a fetish, in the same way people get off on feet and midgets.
Do you think women get sexually aroused by Asian men’s, quoting you: “being in touch with nature and self and in possession of tremendous power, and having the wisdom of judgement to know when to apply it?” or our embodiment of “solid work ethic, high professional qualifications and greater than average earning abilities”?
You actually seem to be agreeing and supporting my viewpoint.
t-song: “Well my point is that the fixation on sexuality is what makes it a fetish, in the same way people get off on feet and midgets.”
Are you equating our women to feet and midgets? They may have many faults, but this comment is downright insulting. Seriously, this is not the proper definition of fetish, however.
“Do you think women get sexually aroused by Asian men’s, quoting you: “being in touch with nature and self and in possession of tremendous power, and having the wisdom of judgement to know when to apply it?” or our embodiment of “solid work ethic, high professional qualifications and greater than average earning abilities”?”
Yes, I do. The science of sexual attraction encompasses more than just pheromones. Once source states, “Men are attracted to young, fertile women, with nicely shaped pelvis & thighs, full lips and gentle facial features. Women prefer a fairly buff body, wide shoulders, clear complexion and a firm chin which indicate potency and good genes. Wealth and intelligence can also play a major role.”
“You actually seem to be agreeing and supporting my viewpoint.”
No, I dismiss it. My position is that Asian fetish is a self-serving smokescreen perpetrated primarily by Asian men, and picked up on secondarily by Asian women. The meaninglessness of it is just underscored by WK’s statement that some Asian women are accusing Asian men of harboring an “Asian fetish.” People may have preferences at various times for certain types of prospective partners. It’s that simple. The fact that the sex industry objectifies Asian females does not mean that men who find them attractive have a “fetish.”
Ah I think it’s hard to judge at times the difference between a fetish and just preference on a certain kind of look or physical proportionality. At the end of the day though, I would say what’s a bigger draw towards AF’s by WM’s isn’t so much looks but the less hostile reaction. Kinda like dressing like a hobo and asking adults and children for money, with AF’s the children; they’re less likely to be physically imposing and verbally or visually mock ya.
Thus, when the chase is easier (and remember which gender the chaser is), the viability of that simply greater, especially outcasts (ie, dorks/nerds. Not saying WM’s with AF’s are like that, but the reasoning to seeing the pair).
Argh…I swear I made corrections…
-> is simply greater, especially with outcasts
Without tipping my hand on what I think about this (because I have a post about this in the pipeline…)
Mizar, I think you hit upon why Asian girl “fetish” is considered insulting among many people — it objectifies Asian women.
Remember, the scope of this subject is America. I agree on the one hand that there’s something wrong with the diction of “fetish.” But then I think about the America of yore, its bald eagles, Harleys, anthems, and such, and consider American media throughout the 80s and 90s. In the American context, Asians may have come off as objects indeed, as rare, unfamiliar creatures who, apart from a Connie Chung or two, didn’t speak English. Taking sexual interest in such objects would count as fetish. Thus, what was classified as a fetish in the past made sense for whatever reason and now that history lingers in our language today.
- – -
@#118
Really, you’re confused about something. I hadn’t typed out the word “submissive” in years – before this post.
Again, your words not mine, and revealing. Nothing hypocritcal about my post at all.
@TK
Can’t wait to read that post. Hope the Korean g/f weighs in, too.
Oh, @RJK–regarding the annoying online ad. Again, you’re too cool for this, but screw Google ads and their algorithyms:
[IMG]http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss293/t_song/screen.jpg[/IMG]
I think this link was given out before in this blog, but here it is again…
http://www.ocweekly.com/2006-11-02/news/yellow-fever/1
Yes, most “normal” Asian women don’t like being objectified or desired because of another person’s misty and fuzzy cultural misconceptions (or generalizations). Ms. Farell isn’t a “normal” Asian woman.
So… Chicago ESPN, eh? I guess we won’t be hearing NY/NJ stories from you t_song…
@t_song
You dare question Lord Google’s algorithms?
Blasphemy, off with his head!
This discussion continues to be a writhing, throbbing orgy of ill-conceived, convoluted rationalization blissfully unaware of its own myopia, half-baked argumentation riddled with blind-spots aggravated by a stubborn, willful self-delusion accompanied by a peculiar streak of self-aggrandizement almost as inflated as Blueball’s unabashed worship, idolatry, and promotion of the mystical Great White Cock, of which Blueballs is clearly a highly committed, enthusiastic, and self-appointed PR spokesperson in Korea, never letting an opportune moment go to waste.
While it’s not too late to continue straining the plantation analogy provoked in #105, allow me, if you will, to enunciate this interesting train of thought a little further. First off, I’d like to congratulate Blueballs and his melanin-deficient brethren on their newly found status as the mandingos of the Korean race. Well done, homies. So…after years of getting played by Black guys and watching legions of White women succumb to the forbidden fruits of Jungle Fever back on home turf, how does it feel to flip the script and play the role of a pale copy-cat version of the infamous mandingo, the Yellow Man’s nigger? Not only do you get to enjoy the benefits of slender, long-haired, and most importantly tight Oriental foxes, who are forever running some kind of an Affirmative Action Program of Pussy for White Guys Everywhere, whether in Asia or the West, doesn’t seem to matter, you get to thumb your noses at the stuck-up Western women who’ve rejected you back home and flip a birdie at the jealous, insecure, small-dicked Yellow Man! Have I got this right? Or did I leave something out? Wow, it doesn’t get any better than this. Give yourselves all a high-five and pass the bong.
Oh, wait, there’s more. It appears quite a few of you also like to imagine yourselves as self-styled “liberators” of Korean womenfolk, who apparently are forever oppressed and begging to be set free from the nefarious clutches of Confucian chauvinism. Blueballs, again, constantly re-emerges again and again to be the self-appointed patron saint of this “White Knight” gospel, a dedicated, committed soul working tirelessly to helping his brethren achieve the missionary position with Korean womenfolk and thus saving them from all the evil jealous ajosshi’s, by having them receive the Great White Cock as their Personal Lord and Savior. Have I got that right, Blueballs? Please feel free to expand further on this in case I’ve left something out.
OK, now that I’ve gotten that outta the way, it’s pretty damn obvious by now that “Asian Fetish” is something that bothers a whole lot of you. Before we get into whether it is real or imagined, let me ask: why so defensive?
The expat doth protest too much, methinks.
WangKon936:”Yes, most “normal” Asian women don’t like being objectified or desired because of another person’s misty and fuzzy cultural misconceptions (or generalizations).”
In other words, they’re no different from other women. Except that when they get hit on just like the rest, they somehow conflate it with racial profiling.
NK:”OK, now that I’ve gotten that outta the way, it’s pretty damn obvious by now that “Asian Fetish” is something that bothers a whole lot of you. Before we get into whether it is real or imagined, let me ask: why so defensive?”
No, the question you’re avoiding with this canard is: why so offensive?
It is really interesting that certain people like NetizenKim are so upset about interracial relationships that they need to use the term “fetish” to make it look like a perversion.
>OK, now that I’ve gotten that outta the way, it’s pretty damn obvious by now that “Asian Fetish” is something that bothers a whole lot of you. Before we get into whether it is real or imagined, let me ask: why so defensive?
Isn’t it obvious? I am clearly hoping to shift attention away from my own secret and shameful desires by viciously attacking those same desire in others.
P.S. How do you make sentences in italics? I feel left out.
Isn’t it interesting how people expressing an attraction to people of other races get villified as somehow mentally abnormal, whether the term is “jungle fever” or “Asian fetish”? Whatever the derisive term for Asian women who prefer white men is, I really don’t care to hear it.
The myth that the majority of WMAF (white male asian female) relationships are attributable to some “Asian-fetish” denies, among other facts, that half of the people in these relationships are not white males.
It’s not just white males who are targeted by stereotypes about interracial relationships.
Mark Mathabane writes: “Stereotypes about interracial couples claim that black men perceive white women as “trophies” and that black women with white men want to be “massa’s gal” again. These sexist views demean women. Another stereotype has black men marrying white women for social acceptance and economic advancement. Nonsense. I was warned against marrying Gail lest I compromise my credibility as a black writer. White women who date or marry black men are accused of having low self-esteem or feelings of anger toward their parents. Rather, such women often possess a great self-confidence necessary to weather hostility.”
However, interracial unions are a growing trend in the U.S., and there is research that indicates that interracial marriages last longer than non-interracial marriages. Interracial couples represented two percent of marriages in 1970 according to a Stanford University study. In 2005, that number was up to seven percent of the 59 million marriages in the United States.
In defence of Asian men who express angst about interracial relationships, the data does suggest that “Asian men prefer to marry Asian women, but since Asian women are more likely to marry a man of another race, it leaves less Asian women to choose from.” (see link below). Regardless, this does not justify attributing interracial unions to some sort of perversion:
http://dating.lovetoknow.com/Statistics_on_Interracial_Relationships
@Wangkon
Yep, I’m anchored in Chicago. Damn–I meant to crop that out, but, well, I’m just lazy.
@minzar5
You are oversimplifying the issue by saying that Asian fetish is merely interracial relationships.
It’s not that black-and-white.
If by happenstance, a WM just believes an AF is beautiful, there is nothing wrong with that. Who would argue with mutual physical attraction? Not me.
But when the so-called “Asian goggles” go on, and the reason for attraction moves beyond even just physical looks, but to something else, that is the main issue here.
Despite repeatedly writing that exact point, you have tried to force the issue to become a universal outcry against interracial relationships.
While I am clearly willing to accept that the “Asian fetish” is really an “Asian fetish,” my life experience and those of my friends suggests something else.
Here’s a great article, written by a gyopo, with an interesting angle: Why do Asian Americans not date each other? The article concludes with this:
In other words, date whomever you want. Marry whomever you please. As long as you know what you like and why you like it — that’s all that matters.
The important idea here is “why”?
link: http://web.archive.org/web/20060212132003/http://www.audreymagazine.com/Sep2005/Features03.asp
Blueballs ejaculated:
In Korea, the native males put plenty of work into sowing the seeds of doubt into female minds when it comes to the Great White Cock:
“Western men only want one night stands. They’ll just use you and throw you away.”
“Western men have high rates of AIDS.”
“Western men are playboys…he’ll definitely cheat on you.”
“Western men don’t take marriage seriously and will divorce at the drop of a hat.”
You know, I find it both strange and sad when our beloved melanin-deficient brethren turn into helpless victims-in-training in Korea. Especially since our said brethren have been forever telling us whiny minorities to STFU and to learn to enjoy taking it up the ass. Somehow the tables turn, they find themselves a minority in Asia, and they effortlessly turn into loud, whiny minorities themselves for the most minor grievances. I find that very unbecoming. They just don’t make White people like they used to anymore and no where is that more apparent than the expats in Korea.
Above, Blueballs lists some familiar expat grievances that are dear to their hearts. If that’s the extent of their “struggle”, they should consider themselves rather fortunate. I’d gladly trade my problems for theirs. I know a lot of them like to entertain the notion of the Korean male as their very own whip-cracking oppressor or something, but allow me to point out some yawning gaps in this thinking. Looking at the history of their own predecessors and how they’ve dealt with similar issues, I think it’s probably safe to say that most Korean guys are highly unlikely to start donning some strange looking costumes like pointy caps and white robes, burning crosses in front of people’s houses, and turning waeguks into tree piñatas or something like that. Of course, I could be wrong but right now at least it’s safe to say that is highly unlikely. So rest assured.
We only have Blueball’s word to go on this, of course, but for all the complaining that expats tend do in their blogs, the idea of the jealous cock-blocking Korean is one that I find, interestingly enough, distinctly absent in my non-humble opinion. If this was really that prevalent, I’m certain we’d be hearing a lot more about it. I think Asia and even Asian-Americans are surprising tolerant about this matter, more so than any other societies, both past and present. In fact, I’d go so far as to say that we’re too tolerant. Imagine, if you will, a bizarro world where Asian guys are bagging all the White chicks left and right, at rates far disproportionate to our numbers, and you find very few Asian women with White guys. You think White guys will remain calm, collected, and be all “kumbaya” about it? I think not. You don’t think at the very least they’d be asking “what the hell is going on here?” I think so.
The reason why I am making this my business is because I think there is a little bit of Blueballs in a lot of the White guys who are screwing, dating, and marrying all the Asian chicks. These are guys whom whether you like it or not will become your brother-in-laws, son-in-laws, and, of course, competitors. You will find them increasing in your homes, families, churches, and community. It’s always good to know what you’re dealing with. Caveat Emptor.
OK, then.
Blueballs further ejaculated:
Of course you gyopos that want to shoulder that “We must protect our rightful property” burden have to take a different angle here in the states, because given their familiarity with the culture, most of the old scare tactics will get nothing but a laugh from KA womyns.
So what’s left? ASIAN FETISH!
OK, this is where I start to realize Blueballs also likes to dabble in theoretical fiction.
As a male, “Asian fetish” which is a concept that Asian women have come up with themselves, due to their numerous interactions with all kinds of different men of various ethnicity, both mostly of the melanin-deficient variety, is one that I too find strange to behold. The purely instinctively male part of me asks, “what’s the big deal?” If I were asked if I would mind all kinds of women fetishing me, I’d say: “not at all”. I’m a pretty open-minded fellow like that. Asian Fetish, or Yellow Fever, or as Goldstein puts it in Harold & Kumar, the Yellow Plague, is a non-linear female abstraction that lies in a peculiar sociological space where racism intersects with sexism. The male mind has a hard time wrapping itself around it. Male gyopos most certainly didn’t invent this.
Furthermore, it is NOT us males who go on and on about it but the women themselves. Most Asian women don’t really know how to articulate what it is precisely but they recognize it instantly when they encounter it. That’s why there’s so much fuzzy mystery surrounding it. I take a high interest in it because I, as a student of the Politics of Pussy, find it fascinating, in the same way that a micro-biologist finds a flatworm interesting. I have even alluded to the fact that I, as a connoisseur of strange and exotic different-flavored pussy myself, have encountered similar anti-fetish defense mechanisms from women of other ethnicities.
This is getting embarrassing. Only Netizen Kim could turn a simple “They’re stealin’ our wimminfolk!” into a fucking PhD dissertation.
I’m still jealous of his ability to write with such a flair. Come on, admit it colontos, you know you are too.
“Only Netizen Kim could turn a simple “They’re stealin’ our wimminfolk!” into a fucking PhD dissertation.”
Eh, he’s about 390 pages short…
“Except that when they get hit on just like the rest, they somehow conflate it with racial profiling.”
Well… if some 42 year old guy comes up to them with the pick-up line of: “I just came back from Bangkok…” what are they suppose to think?
Here’s what eternal victim Netizen Kim was saying on this subject fifteen years ago:
Same shit, different year.
Another classic, straight from “Das Leiden des jungen Kyopos”, courtesy of Netizen Kim:
Aren’t you tired of being a broken record?
Finally! I’ve waiting for Netizen Kim to make some reference, some citation, ANYTHING to show this his ideas exist somewhere outside his own skewed mind.
And he did. In comment 141, he paraphrases that paramount work of racial authority, “Harold and Kumar.”
Fine work, scholar! I see you are clearly well-studied in this area, and not just some quasi-lunatic speaking off the cuff about a topic he knows only through his own tainted viewpoint.
C’mon guys, get real. It’s pretty obvious there was an Asian fetish (or at least the aforementioned Asian goggles) element to this story. Ask yourself this: Could a white chick as fugly as Ms. Farrell have done what she did?
A question –is the asian goggles thing primarily the result of an intentional objectification of asian women, or is it more because they really have trouble telling asian faces apart? I’m leaning towards the latter, which I would take to be a far less blame-worthy trend. But this entire discussion is, you have to admit, kind of petty to begin with.
tinyflowers,
I won’t dismiss the Asian angle completely. But I’ll stick to my original thesis that this “Asian fetish” thing is being hugely exaggerated. She might not have been pretty, but she was hip, plugged into the local scene, and above all, easy.
You’ve never seen a plain-looking white chick take home guys at will just by being an easy pick-up and a decent lay? I dare say more than half of my teenage sexual experiences were with such women.
JW: Actually, you may be on to something there.
dogbertt,
Don’t paint us all with the same brush now…
Not a single discussion here that isn’t.
especially the korean ones – have a very small standard deviation..i was on the seoul metro last night, and everyone looked so normal and a different version of someone i knew, it made me think about the scientists talking about the most averaged face (plus one distingusihing feature) being attractive..
another factor i’m sure everyone knows is that westerners tend to think the exotic mullan looks which traditional asian values came away from (since the westernization and the plastic surgery) is still attractive enough in an exotic way, whereas the majority of koreans didn’t(this is changing – i can tell from the new faces they prefer on TV)
Did you guys even read the story? This girl was offering blow jobs and intercourse to random guys in bars, and when they took her up on her offer, it’s because of Asian fetish or Asian goggles? Are you really that stupid or have you never actually been to a bar or interacted with heterosexual men before?
You know the only thing men love more than a girl — ANY FUCKING GIRL OF ANY ETHNICITY — approaching them offering them easy sex? Nothing!
It’s called a I Love Easy Pussy Fetish or an I Love Getting My Cock Sucked Fetish, and had squat to do with her being Asian. That girl could have been green-skinned with one tit and genital warts, and as long as she’s an aggressive slut throwing her mouth on any dick in the joint, she’s gonna get attention and invitations to sleep on plenty of dude’s couches.
i agree with you absolutely here IHBB! i think the surprise/backlash came later (only to stupid people who don’t know womens prisons exist in korea as well) after she got found out that she was asian/young/hip therefore doesn’t fit into the usual sagikkun types
the usual term is 꽃뱀 in korea for such girls..
except this girl doesn’t look very much like the korean 꽃뱀 but a plain 뱀 and could operate is what the korean gyopos are at pains to point out…
I was just video hopping on youtube, jumping from one song to another and have found this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9E6uKHvouM
^ Video of a KA and a white girl. What fetish do you suppose the white girl has?
…The answer is, most likely, none.
American girls who date Asian guys have got to be post-race in some way or post-something, which is why I stated their interest in Asian guys seems good to me. I see social and cultural progress in such women. Whereas it’s not always easy to get the same vibe from WM-AF sexuality, which, contrary to being post-anything. may sometimes seem like the very exercise of racism.
Of course, guys, being guys, can debase the race of any woman they bang in a night. That sort of mistreatment comes from racists, but those who are racist are, quite frankly, not likely to be non-white American.
Question is, do you think the average American Asian guy is a racist and speaking or thinking about his love affairs with non-Asian women in degrading, “sucky sucky, love you long time,” language or anything so disrespectful? In my experience, no. It’s always gratitude that I see from the AM.
Video of the same kid doing a cover to Jason Mraz’s I’m Yours:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZ8tZNapu-k
BTW, I certainly don’t fucking care about this Farrell chick or how she connects to all the hubbub going on in this thread. And if she offered me a blowjob, I’d– very, very reluctantly– let her.
bluballs,
Did YOU read the story? One guy gave her thousands of dollars to bail her out of jail. I don’t know about you but I don’t throw that kind of money around just because a girl is “easy”. There’s definitely more to it than that. My guess is that she expertly played on the “White Knight” syndrome these dupes had with a carefully cultivated combination of desperation, vulnerability and exoticism. Call it Asian fetish, or whatever you want, she certainly put it to work for her.
Right, because women of other ethnicities are unable to operate scams due to their ethnic deficiency relative to The Mark.
Since I’m not an idiot, no, I don’t throw that kind of money around on psychotic sluts. But there are plenty of idiots out there that do. And their gullibility has nothing to do with fetish, but with trusting people they shouldn’t for a variety of reasons. That brand of dupe will throw money around on white sluts, black sluts, teen-age sluts, Latino sluts, Ukranian stripper sluts (as my Harvard-educated lawyer pal did to the tune of 50k), and all kinds of sluts of differing varieties. But I guarantee no one here claiming Asian fetish in this case would apply the fetish term to any of those cases.
This bitch preyed on all kinds of people, scamming them for cash, including women. Did those women who trusted her have an Asian fetish? Or were they just too trusting of a con artist and got scammed like everyone else? It’s pretty obvious she took in all types without regard. It’s also pretty obvious that the purveyors of the Asian fetish myth are looking for any situation to apply it to as long as it involves an AF/WM.
The primary sob story she used was that she had cancer, and it had nothing to with her ethnicity. She manipulated people based on sympathy and the story of her impending death. That’s not the mythical White Knight bullshit you’re buying from NK. It’s just a simple con that a lot of people can relate to, which is very easy to pull off with little effort.
gbnhj,
As I hinted above, I don’t think an ugly white chick would have been able to pull it off. No. Maybe in Korea.
blueballs,
I don’t know why it’s so hard for you to fathom that this girl used all of her assets, including her ethnicity and exotic appeal, to seperate fools from their money. Do you deny that some guys go for that? I see that you’re straining to dismiss Asian fetish as a myth but come on now, half the guys on Dave’s ESL cafe would gladly admit to the affliction (not the best example but you get the point).
Well, now I’m intrigued: were this the case, who would be The Mark – locals or expats, Korean or non-Korean – and why? Are you suggesting a different type of fetishism exists? If so, for whom? Or, are you rather suggesting that ugly white female criminals would be more successful in Korea than elsewhere, due to factors not related to fetishism? What might those factors be, in your opinion?
@iheartblueballs
It is a well known scientific fact that all girls are at least a little bit lezzie. (I know I would be)
Not even they are safe from the wiles of the orient.
Really, yellow fever is just nature’s way of saying “mix your damn genes up you fucking inbreeders”. It’s only natural.
Dear Marmot’s Hole
I absolutely LIVE for interracial dating articles and the threads they spawn. Never change.
# 165,
However, I believe if white women got yellow fever more often (or at least half as often as white men did) guys like NK would have less to complain about.
Well… if some 42 year old guy comes up to them with the pick-up line of: “I just came back from Bangkok…” what are they suppose to think?
He’s been on holiday?
Seriously, have you ever actually heard this line being used?
“I don’t know why it’s so hard for you to fathom that this girl used all of her assets, including her ethnicity and exotic appeal”
Tiny you really are myopic, of course she would have used all her assets, that what con artists do, and IHBB has never implied otherwise. Quite the contrary he’s pointing out that the rush to explain that all her success is due to an asian fetish is idiotic, when there are much more obvious factors – easy lay, heart tugging cancer stories etc…etc.
Must be hard to be him every day, but he manages it, somehow. Befuddling…
#140
I blame all these asian women with a white fetish.
without them we’d never be able to satisfy our blatant asian fetish
Arghaeri,
I don’t know what thread you’ve been reading. It’s pretty clear blueballs has trouble accepting that there might have been an Asian fetish element to this story.
What are you blueballs’ mouthpiece? I’d rather have him speak for himself but it would be pretty stupid for him to point that out when no one is actually claiming that “all her success is due to an asian fetish”.
Colontos asked:
Should white men not date/marry Asian women, or vice versa? Is there something wrong with interracial relationships, and, if so, is the WM/AF relationship more wrong than others?
On a case-by-case individual level, it’s quite none of my business. On a macro level, I think it is worthy of critical examination.
There is nothing inherently wrong with interracial relationships. However, it is only human nature to raise an eyebrow at anomalies and disparities. In terms of numbers and sheer frequency, WM-AF type of interracial relationships is an anomaly. This type of IR coupling far exceeds any other type of IR coupling given any combination of race and gender, including that of the next most common example of IR coupling, which is the BM-WF. The AF rate of miscegenation occurs at a rate that far exceeds that of any other group. The statistics are all out there available and they are well documented. These are facts.
I’m a person who likes to ask questions. Why is this so? Why do White men pair with Asian women at such high rates that you don’t really see happening with, say, between WM and Black women? Why do Asian females pair with White men at such high rates that you don’t really see happening with say, between AF and any type of men other than White. Why are Asian men always dead last?
I sincerely believe that we as an American society, do not deserve to call ourselves an American society, with all of the high ideals that we normally associate with America, unless we start addressing some of these questions.
These questions obviously make certain people highly uncomfortable. If you question the status quo, you will always make certain people uncomfortable. I am not interested in other people’s comfort or lack thereof. I am interested in truth.
Frankly, I think it can cause much unwanted friction and problems within our Asian-American community. Aside from the obvious inter-gender conflict and misunderstanding that may arise, there are other problems as well. At some point, we have to start asking: what effect does this have on our community? How does seeing so many Asian women being paired with White men, whether in the streets, at churches, in our families, at work, at school, on TV and the movies, etc affect the self-identity, self-esteem, and psychological development of young Asian-Americans, both boys and girls, who may be exposed to this constantly, especially as they’re going through puberty? Are there any pathological root causes within our own community that is contributing to the problem? I have found that in quite a few cases, many Korean women had Daddy issues when they were little girls, a father who didn’t show much affection and was emotionally distant. Years later, this would have a severe impact on her relations with Asian male peers in terms of dating and so forth. I always mention this to my gyopo male peers who are already married and raising daughters, to bear this in mind for the sake of our future generations.
I’ll be blunt. When I was younger, I’ve been told by Asian girls that they didn’t like me because I was Asian. And I am hardly alone. I don’t think I’d ever forget that. Something tells me I’d probably bear this scar until the day I die. I wish I didn’t have this problem but I find it doesn’t go away because no matter how much I try to forget or ignore it, I am constantly reminded of it eventually, one way or another.
I am not going to oppose Asian women dating/marrying/fucking whomever they want. They don’t owe me anything and I don’t owe them anything either. But if I encounter a character like Blueballs who likes to talk shit, I will confront him or her. Other than that. I take every opportunity to raise awareness, esp with my gyopo male peers, cause personally I believe they are largely clueless and completely unaware or in denial and completely unprepared to deal with the tsunami that is overtaking them.
No wonder you’re so sensitive. It’s so very unusual for men to objectify women otherwise!
I didn’t see her stroking and licking his hairless body or sniffing his deodorant-free armpits, so I guess she doesn’t have a fetish.
t-song: “@minzar5 You are oversimplifying the issue by saying that Asian fetish is merely interracial relationships. It’s not that black-and-white.”
No, it’s yellow and white.
“If by happenstance, a WM just believes an AF is beautiful, there is nothing wrong with that. Who would argue with mutual physical attraction? Not me.”
Exactly. Case closed.
“But when the so-called “Asian goggles” go on, and the reason for attraction moves beyond even just physical looks, but to something else, that is the main issue here.”
Goggles? Beyond physical looks? Quite a bizzarre argument. You only prove my point that the so-called “Asian fetish” is basically a ploy by insecure Asian males to portray interracial dating as some sort of racist perversion on the part of white males.
These terms “Asian fetish” and “yellow fever” are really quite a facile and transparent bits of racial stereotyping that play on all the nasty racist Aisan stereotypes of white males – portraying them as arrogant raping, plundering colonizers. And for what crime? Attraction to a member of the opposite sex whom you yourself covet?
My main objection as an Asian male to these terms is not just that they are blatently racist, which they quite obviously are, as explained above, but that they simply doesn’t do the job they are intended to do – ie.shore up the ego of weak Asian males and/or disparage white males. Unfortunately, it only feeds the beast of Asian male insecurity while it simply doesn’t offend white guys.
These terms have certain similarities to the loaded Korean term “param jaengi” (playboy) only with added racist overtones. In Korea, playboy is considered a term of derision, whereas it has positive connotations for a white male who associates it with James Bond, the Playboy mansion and flashy cars. Likewise, any white male who has experienced an attraction to an Asian female would be likely to quite innocently admit to experiencing a case of “yellow fever” or “Asian fetish” without understandubg that these terms are intended as insults.
To observe people like NK expressing their inner racist in this manner, which is strictly internal dialogue, is rather sad.
Bottom line is that like many males, I’ve had blonde fever, redhead fever, Asian fever, African-American fever, younger female fever, older female fever, and numerous other attractions, and I suspect that you have too. This does not make us somehow mentally unstable or nepharious evildoers, just horney devils.
Now, stop embarrassing yourselves and get some self-esteem.
NK: “I have found that in quite a few cases, many Korean women had Daddy issues when they were little girls, a father who didn’t show much affection and was emotionally distant.”
Here is an example of the flip side of the racist stereotype – that there must be “something wrong” with women who take white devils as partners. In the US, similar stereotyping was used to impugn white female/black male relationships.
NK: “I’ll be blunt. When I was younger, I’ve been told by Asian girls that they didn’t like me because I was Asian. And I am hardly alone. I don’t think I’d ever forget that. Something tells me I’d probably bear this scar until the day I die.”
At least you’re being honest, NK. A professional counsellor would tell you to move on. Either rid yourself of this fixation on wanting Asian women to desire you, or go to Korea where the women will be all over you.
i have my differences with Netizen Kim.
Just a couple words.
1/ I support Netizen Kim and his fine words.
2/ Why is that when a non-white person states something that concerns ‘race’ the way it is, you white people get so riled up, calling us lunatics, insane, etc? Is there a closet monster in your room, ready to beat you down when you think outside of the classroom instilled political correctness model? While I was in a US primary education system, I read many stories about how the whiteman unjustly wrong the blackman, in required reading, AP English exams, etc.
But honest to God, I have never been required to read a story about a white person being wronged by a blackman. You know, they could have EASILY written one. Off the top of my head, OJ Simpson/his wife, Arkansas white female reporter/her murderer, etc.
something’s wrong.
wjk just sees it.
@Mizar
So in your viewpoint there is no examination behind the “why” in the relationship? That all Asian/white relationships can be chalked down as honest physical attraction?
Perhaps this subtlety would be like a woman liking a man for his spanking brand new BMW, the connotations of wealth and status coming with it. Sure–you can say the woman doesn’t like the man for his money; it’s awkward to speak like that.
But the backdrop for Asians, especially women, is what? World War II, Korean War, Vietnam War. Government-sponsored prostitution. Geishas.
I think to make it a sort of, hmm, the acknowledgment of yellow fever being this societal crutch for Asian males for us to fume over in the corners of bars or in computer labs, I think, is, while partly true, ignores all of the reasons I personally am disguisted by it. It seems you view it as “racist” terminology and some type of tangible outlook on culture that drags down the lives of Asian males.
I view the same concept as evolving from this horrible societal association and objectification of Asian women that has been passed down throughout history.
hear ye !
hear ye !
you’re awesome, dude.
@t_song:
Asians were poorer than Westerners during the last century, but Asian-Americans have higher average income than whites. I’m still waiting for US TV dramas to wake up to this fact and start casting attractive Asian-American men as doctors, lawyers, university professors, and IT entrepreneurs.
173# Tiny,
“Did YOU read the story? One guy gave her thousands of dollars to bail her out of jail. I don’t know about you but I don’t throw that kind of money around just because a girl is “easy”. There’s definitely more to it than that.”
Point proven. You’re unable to accept that she could have had success simply by being easy with a sob story.
“I didn’t see her stroking and licking his hairless body or sniffing his deodorant-free armpits, so I guess she doesn’t have a fetish.”
Looks like Sonagi’s the real fetishist here, with here repeated fascination for certain asian advantages….
her
@Sonagi
I think we are starting to see more Asian male actors working their way into movies. Also, as the 3rd generation of Korean-Americans hit the scene, it’ll be interesting to see how they assimilate, with (mostly) American-born parents growing up in America.
That said, I believe Asian-Americans (Korean, Japan, China) have higher rates of higher education and even income, but the catch-all Asian-Americans are actually below whites and maybe even blacks and Hispanics. I know that is true in Chicago, as immigrants from SE Asia (Vietnam, Thailand, etc.) are now factored in. They are not doing as well financially.
@wjk
I’m calling your sarcasm but not choosing to raise it.
BTW, does anyone (yuna) know what the accurate translation for fetish. I tried to bring it up with some native Korean friends here, and boy, did I fug up the translation. I looked up “fetish” on Naver dictionary, but I’m guessing 물신 isn’t correct. Maybe it is but I fugged about everything else. That would not be beyond the realm of possibility!
페티시
I guess that means Koreans are a less fetish prone people, unlike our neighbors to the east. They prolly have their own word for it.
@JW
Should’ve known and followed my rule when I don’t know a Korean word: take the English word and switch all the Fs, Ls, Rs and Ths out and insert Korean substitues.
#184
Looks like Sonagi’s the real fetishist here, with here repeated fascination for certain asian advantages….
You’d be surprised at how uptight a lot of these boys mind-fucked by the Dept of Ethnic Studies can be about the fetish thing also. I don’t get it. Me…I liberated my dick a long time ago.
nearly, you should also stick a -ism – 이즘 at the end, to form 페티시즘 as koreans love doing that to a word, making it into a 전문용어-sounding noun..
i would be inclined to say the word for pervert/perverted – pyunteh 변태 (japanese pronunciation hentai) is used to broadly encompass the term fetish as well among your average koreans.
btw, why haven’t the usual language enforce& control team latched onto this before? fetish seems to be the wrong word to describe the preference of asian women by some white males. usually we associate it with a 집착 with a 물건(object) or a body part at best..
and the origin of the word from anthropology supports this, i didn’t think that even in the west, the meaning has come to include a sexual preference of a racial stereotype, yet. but maybe it has already. in porn classification, as they would be less exact with such things in that industry.
#159,
You don’t, but plenty of guys do, regardless of the gal’s ethnicity. The lovestruck loser who sees himself as a knight in shining armor is a big money earner for strippers and prostitutes.
“attractive Asian-American men as doctors”
You don’t think John Cho is attractive, Sonagi? He played a doctor on Grey’s Anatomy…until they killed his character last week.
*gross generalization alert*
we’ve had a long & lively discourse and heard the opinions of the asian males & expats. maybe time for an asian female’s point of view.(btw i do not represent all my other “sisters”)
i’ve always been aware of the degrading aspect of such relationships traditionally, with the backdrop of the wars, the GI Joes, the Ms Saigons, the madame butterfly’s. i also cringe i see physically unattractive WM/AF in the street together, and even more when they have a language barrier between them – you then wonder, what was the attraction?? – they seem desperate, for a bedmate, for a spouse, for a Visa etc etc. (like the korean men in the country with SE Asian brides)
Having said all that, there is an undeniable yin-yang attraction between WM and AF, when you look at the culture – the Orient is the Ying to the Occident’s Yang, It feels natural that a Yang male should find Ying female attractive and vice versa. this should also be counted when trying to explain the high disparity in the numbers game.
On a practical note, it’s not that asian females are not as attracted to asian males too. indeed i would say still more are attracted to asian males. (you see the male idols in korea?) there is an element of kinship, and the “no need to put in words” kind of deep understanding that come with being with an asian male. however, with that sort of closeness and understanding also comes more responsibility and 굴레, often from the social surrounding, e.g. the husband’s family, and generally the close-knit korean society at large.
once you start dating a non-korean, people already think of you as a 내놓은 사람 and with less inclusion comes more freedom. so a lot of the korean girls who have the choice have this dilemma.
so what can the male kyopos do? stay tuned.
t_song:”@Mizar So in your viewpoint there is no examination behind the “why” in the relationship? That all Asian/white relationships can be chalked down as honest physical attraction?”
I seldom use words like all or always, but yes, I would say that the majority of romantic relationships originate in “an honest physical attraction” (I’ve never heard of a dishonest physical relationship). This is no less true of interracial relationships.
As the concept that men for some reason target/objectify Asian women more than they do any other type remains unsupported by a scintilla of proof, “Asian fetish” remainss no more than a groundless attempt to disparage interracial relationships by villifying those “outsiders” who dare date “our” women.
Who the fuck are you to judge other people’s relationships, sister? Ugly people need and deserve love too — not just the people of whom you approve.
Brendon, I think you’re good looking.
Actually, me and some family are attending a wedding near St. Louis, and we’re wondering what else there is to do that is recommended in St. Louis.
We are already going to a Cardinals game, because the hotel faces the stadium.
Thanks.
You go girl. Gotta keep the freeways clear for the real fetishists. What’ll it be this week? Golden showers? Now that’s a real yellow fetish – one that could even generate a fever.
wjk — You are, of course, correct. I’m one super-handsome devil. But I care, dammit about all the wretches of the world. God has a plan for them, too: It’s to propagate their ugly mugs to posterity, so that I and mine might remain above the mean. This bitch Yuna’s idea — keeping the ugly segregated and childless — threatens that.
St. Louis has a lot to do. What are the ages of the people attending? Travelling with kids?
@199. Maybe we could segregate the ugly with the blind? Move all the deaf people out to the airport and get the Jehovah’s Witness to deliver the mail?
adults 25 to 30, 4 people. No children traveling.
In that case, I’ll have to think a bit. For local adults 25 to 30, the most popular thing to do is sit around drinking and grousing about how badly you want to get away from Godforsaken St. Louis. I’m not sure if that’s as appealing to visitors.
Ah, but ‘Activities of The Other’ qualifies as near-sport among some folks. Would you deprive them their opportunity to ogle and criticise?
#202: Lived there when I was 22 and couldn’t wait to get posted to the upper Mojave Desert.
St. Louis is best appreciated by those under 14 and over 30; it’s not appreciated at all by those in between. And it seems most homosexuals don’t find the place all that charming for some reason. Is the gay life better out in the Mojave?
Since I’ve had children of my own, the charms of the St. Louis area (Kirkwood, specifically) have grown immeasurably. If I wasn’t already raising my kids in an anonymous concrete box here in Seoul, it would be St. Louis for us.
Hey, NetizenKim, wjk, whoever else is whining about the Asian woman fetish – I got a story for you.
I recently was seeing a nice Korean girl and things started to get more serious beyond just playing around. She suddenly got distant and unreadable when we were together and eventually it came out – she didn’t want to marry a white guy. I told her I wasn’t thinking about marriage yet, we should wait a while, but she said she was 28 and she should stop thinking like a college girl. She said she wanted a normal life, a life married to a Korean man. She said she wanted to marry a Korean man even if they weren’t happy together, because its normal. And she wants a normal life. Even if its not happy. Maybe – and this is my interpretation – especially if its not happy.
This happened just a month ago, so she’s still out there, waiting for the perfect Asian Flower Boy (she really likes that boys before flowers show) to declare his eternal desire to provide a financially stable marriage partnership for her.
So, there you go. One Asian girl who has put her foot down and taken a stand in support of Asian guys everywhere. Well, ok, just Korean guys. Despite the fact that, according to her own admission, I was the best kisser she’d ever known and I gave her sensations she’d never imagined possible, she’s still going to marry some Asian guy. Some day. so you all can divide her amongst yourselves or draw straws or whatever.
Just don’t forget to bring a ton of cash cuz she’s got some expensive tastes.
wow, such harsh reaction. let me explain myself:
please don’t wrongly interpret what i have written.
that’s certainly not my idea, never mentioned the word “ugly”, i don’t for a moment think they should be segregated (what the hell??) and i think beauty is in the eye of the beholder. it was meant more in the spirit of when you wonder about those who seem to have a different agenda/objective than to fall in love drawn by pure attraction (be it physical, or mental)
i certainly don’t ogle, or criticize, not beyond the level of your average person who would come across an 90 year old gramps in the street with a 20 year old asian woman, (& what about anna nicole?) and mildly wonder about the meaning of true love.
i think everyone deserves love and happiness, but we were discussing the existence/non-existence of a social phenomenon here.
mateomiguel, that was really nice and honest account of how it really is. ironically, despite the fact that the korean girlfriends of mine who married korean husbands early in their lives ended up divorcing before they hit 30, korean women still feel that the korean guys they date will, in general, (right or wrongly- it’s not my opinion) be thinking about the big M word more so than their western counterparts & are more serious about the responsibility part that comes with the relationship- not least because there is also some sort of pressure on the guys themselves from the family & the society (not so much with the age thing) to get married. but at the same time i wouldn’t be surprised if the same girl who dated one western guy goes out with another non-korean guy in the future, or eventually even marry a non-korean guy, because girls, they often say one thing and mean (end up doing) another.
‘happy’ line was for your psyche.
$ matters a lot to her. And it seems to be so for Korean girls in Korea. Their role models are anataneirs, actresses, etc who found some chigwa wiesa who only takes cash customers.
I’ve got my own, not interested.
She sounds like the classico d__j___h.
Go back, and tout, the “I’ll rescue you bait.”
Good luck.
thanks, Senior Carr.
Burning Man!
never mentioned the word “ugly”
hilarious, me I never said that, when I said physically unattractive, I clearly meant – cute & handsome
#212 i was upset and shocked that i was called names i didn’t deserve.
go and read what i say and try and stretch that to “this bitch yuna’s idea : keeping the ugly childless and segregated.” i don’t know what triggered such viciousness. maybe a raw nerve.
Yuna, dear,
Carr highlighted a quote of yours in #196 that really did contain a lot of judgment:(unattractive…cringe…desperate…Visa…SE Asian brides)
He could have taken time in a fatherly way to explain how condescending and judgmental that sounded. He didn’t feel that patient, so he just called you a bitch. That’s perfectly fine.
Your going to have to toughen up. Vicious? He’s a lawyer! And please use more capitals when you type. It’s worth the extra time. Your lessons on Korean are fairly unique around here; they’d be even more effective if your comments were visually easier to read.
One last tip: NEVER say “go back and read what I wrote”. It’s so gay (not to be judgmental), and homosexual references strike a really raw nerve with Carr.
And look out for mixing up “your” and “you’re”. The English attack dogs are always hungry.
mat:”She said she wanted to marry a Korean man even if they weren’t happy together, because its normal. And she wants a normal life. Even if its not happy. Maybe – and this is my interpretation – especially if its not happy…So, there you go. One Asian girl who has put her foot down and taken a stand in support of Asian guys everywhere.”
Mat, she represents the rule, whereas those Korean girls who are unprejudiced enough to have a relationship with a non-Korean are the exception in Korea. I have heard of numerous instances of rejection of foreign men by Korean women. Some have simply admitted that they were prejudiced based on what they’ve read in the media about foreign men (in Korean this is referred to as a “fixed notion”).
The problems Kyopo encounter with Asian girls getting into non-Korean men in the U.S. are due to the relative lack of prejudice in U.S. society.
Linkd, as usual, you are being chivalrous, I appreciate that.- I consider it 인신공격, by a lawyer too! A bitch? Seriously? & Do I toughen up by using swearwords back? Why is it that when they make judgmental comments all the times about Korea I should try and argue it out, rather than calling *them* names?
Yuna, with all due respect you said what you said, that you cringe when you see “physically unattractive WM/AF in the street together.” And if I’m not mistaken that’s the real gist of the complaints by the Jessica Kims and Christiana Lees. I mean, god forbid that two people who don’t look like runway models in the eyes of their countrymen should nevertheless find happiness in this world, even if they have to cross an ocean to do so.
As for the ocean of tears shed upthread by the whining male gyopos, after seeing how Korean men treat: a) foreigners, and b) Korean women, I really couldn’t care less. Sorry, guys, but your inability to get a date doesn’t interest me.
Carr is married. He has kids. Many of the people (men) on this blog have been in love with the same woman for many years. You’re young, too young to make judgments on the motives for what makes people get together and stay together.
Also, lots of these guys (not me) are ugly as hell. Just look around – Canada Day BBQ, streets of Itaewon, the smoking door at the back of any hakwon, British Pub, Three Alley, any American or EU Chamber of Commerce Event – good lord! There’s a lot of ugly white guys in Korea.
Just imagine if you went to a bar in Itaewon with some white friends from this blog (who you just met, since you’re new here), sat down and started looking around at the other customers in the bar with their wives and girlfriends, and saying judgmental things about how they must only be together because the Korean chick wants a visa. Your companions, I assure you, would tell you to not be such a bitch.
Swearing is up to you.
Alright, I was a bitch! I am also a bitch for finding such onion article funny which I posted the link to once before.
. . . stroking and licking her hairless body or sniffing her deodorant-free armpits . . .
Hmm, substitute “kissing” for “licking”, and “licking” for “sniffing”, and that Sonagi just might be on to something.
Omigod. Did I just say thatout loud?
Excellent! That’s toughening up.
I’m about to call it a night, but one favor, please: Next time you have any interaction with Carr – regardless of the subject – please begin your comment with “Oh, don’t be a fag!”
Everyone will respect you after that. Fo’ sho’.
The truth is, most reddish/pink people are ugly. All I can say is, thank god my way-too-hot-for-me coffee & cream colored wife of like a gazillion great years doesn’t seem to know that (yet).
Yuna’s The Onion link is hilarious, by the way.
I remember being attracted to Boris Becker myself when I was a young girl – also James Spader too..his(Becker’s) ginger-blond eyelashes remind me of the pig foetus i dissected once. So maybe that article is funny, but also true. Good Night.
I like how the discussion has picked up and we’re hearing more perspectives. It’s too bad Yuna is the sole female Korean voice–and everyone is beating up on her English!
For Korean readers, I bet all of you are familiar with 네이버 지식 section. They have some interesting discussion on dating foreigners on there.
We can argue that it’s waaaaay wrong, but a native Korean who marries a foreigner probably faces a tough life, both among her friends and family in Korea, but also back in the native country of the male.
On the same token, I wonder to what extent white people marrying native Koreans consider the adjustment and potential rejection and disdain their wives will experience. I never read about this, except from my bi-racial friends and a few academic papers. But it’s always written from the soberful Korean wife perspective and not the white male side–I’m curious, genuinely, about that POV.
Anyone — Carr? — like to share? I mean, i think the kids will be fine b/c they are half white and will have the benefit of growing up in at least a half-Western household.
Hummmm… I think much more can get accomplished here if both sides weren’t trying to embarrass the other.
Also, can we allow a grammar/spelling/diction Gestapo allowance to Yuna? I appreciate her views and it’s a very rare one here in TMH. Yes, I am now convinced that she is a chick after all.
@Wk and others
I’m not trying to embarrass others–let me get that out there now. I’m genuinely interested in this topic, as I have many half-Korean friends with some fucked up parents. I’d like to learn more about this.
t_song, I wasn’t just referring to you.
I think yuna should get posting privileges. This site is about korea, and there’s no voice of a korean living in korea.
JW,
That thought makes way too much sense to every actually be implemented…
#225
I happen to think you are off. There is potential “rejection and disdain” but I think that potential is less in the States than in Korea.
My wife (Korea) has liked it the first two times she went to the States and is more ready to head there than I am. My family and friends dig her and our supportive of our marriage.
Of course, she will bump into problems just like I have bumped into problems in Korea. There are still places she should not go but Klan country is getting smaller every year.
We will look for areas that have Korean churches to settle in. That will provide her a supportive environment of folks in a similar situation. It will also be a source for Korean after-school programs (the kids will have to keep their Korean up so they can communicate with half of their relatives).
On the other hand, I plan/hope to move to the South, where (outside of a few especially big cities) there are not so many Koreans that the kids will get sucked into a situation where they have to chose between being “American*” and hanging with their ethnic Korea brothers and sisters in some kind of ethnic ghetto. Being half-white helps in that regard, although not as much as you might think it would (damn those resesive white genes!).
In smaller cities like Raleigh, NC, the various “rice eaters” would often hang together, often with an equal number of non-Asians (usually white). It can make for some interesting pot luck dinners.
Of course, all of that is based on my observations in central North Carolina in the mid-1990s. YMMV.
*A 1.5 generation Vietnamese-American I knew back in the day referred to white folks as “Americans,” a habit she picked up from her folks.
t-song:”We can argue that it’s waaaaay wrong, but a native Korean who marries a foreigner probably faces a tough life, both among her friends and family in Korea, but also back in the native country of the male.”
Yes, that conjecture is wrong, owing to the complete lack of any social stigma attached to Asian/Caucasian marriages in the U.S.
“On the same token, I wonder to what extent white people marrying native Koreans consider the adjustment and potential rejection and disdain their wives will experience.”
Again, the short answer is that they don’t experience it due to a complete lack of any social stigma attached to Asian/Caucasian marriages in the U.S. Consider all the prominent people who have done it, including Rupert Murdock, Phil Grahm, Mory Povich. Some of my ultra-conservative Caucasian acquaintances have been married in such marriages, maintain very stable, long-lasting partnerships, raising kids and grandkids. This jives with the statistics showing interracial marriages to be more stable than same-race marriages.
Frankly, I have little sympathy for Asians playing the race card when the race issue in the U.S. when even black people, who have a legitimate issues to discuss do it in an intelligent, restrained fashion these days. This “feel sorry for the poor, misunderstood Korean victom of racial prejudice” is quite frankly a joke.
Pardon all my myspellings…
My number 2 most sensible thought would be — ban Mizar5 for posing as a korean.
@Mizar5
I appreciate your interest in my postings, but I believe I have read essentially the same response from you half a dozen times. I respect and understand your points of view, even if they are repetitive; alas, if you’d like to have a “last” word on the issue, I will refrain from responding here on, so as to end this revolving door of a discussion with you, despite my analyzing of this topic from multiple perspectives and entrypoints.
@AndyJackson
Thank you for your response. Great to hear your family and friends have supported your marriage (I’d hope they would). I think it’s great you’re trying to find communities within the Korean church system (that was the exact focus in one academic paper I read–how Korean wives of U.S. Military kept their saneness and carved out an identity through the church groups); I hope there are many other couples like yours, just for a bonding sake. And I bet living in a smaller town might help in finding those couples like yourself.
This is exactly the thought processes that I am very interested in. I also wonder to what extent you, your wife and especially your children will be greeted in the Korean community. In Korea, I remember reading the article about how most Korean children harbored very xenophobic views of bi-racial kids. I wonder if the same will be viewed in the States, a generation after the Amerasians, and a general proliferation of interracial marriages. You–I’m presuming your an English teacher– and your your wive’s kids, as per my hypothesis, will probably have waaaaaayyy more Korean-cultured kids than 3.0′ers, who will be pretty damn Americanized.
Still, I wonder to what extent the Korean community will be accepting of the non-Koreans in the family, namely you and your children. In the communities here in Chicago, there still is a stigma. I try to have an open mind, even calling the 혼혈 guys like 형, but the general Korean community here even scoffs at me doing that. Like, I try to loop those 혼혈형들 in as Korean-Americans, and frankly, I often get corrected.
Again, maybe Chicago, being in the Midwest, is less of a progressive situation than say in California or NY.
AndyJackson,
When you get a chance, see if you can get a hold of Mira Stout’s book “One Thousand Chestnut Trees.”
Mira is a half Korean who was raised in a small east coast town with a Korean mother and American father. It’s a bit of a fictionalized autobiography, but is good for giving you some insight as to how she views her background, etc. Might give you some insight as to how your kids may grapple with their identity as they reach adulthood.
t_song,
What are your thoughts of Jon and Kate Plus 8?
This identity issue, I don’t think it’s very different between half koreans and full koreans — at least here in the U.S.– and the feeling I get from talking to some of my friends is that — at least among males — it’s not much of a problem for them at all. In other words, they don’t experience a whole lot of personal anxiety about switching in and out of both korean and american settings.
Actually, since I don’t know nearly as much half – koreans, I should just say that I don’t know with any degree of certainty at all. But my guess is that it wouldn’t be categorically different, especially if they are able to learn both languages.
@WK
Did u read Mira Stout’s book? The reviews seem to be mixed. I am so fascinated by bi-racial children, as they get viewed as “not White enough” in the West and “not Korean enough” in the ROK. And I thought I had identity issues!
As for my thoughts about Jon and Kate Plus 8, I had never heard of that show before you mentioned it, so I’m unprepared to give any special thoughts. Do you have any?
Kinda reminds me of people from the “countryside” switching in and out of “country” culture and sophisticated “elite” culture. You see it happen everywhere you go, and they seem to be able to pull it off flawlessly.
t_song, are suggesting that bi-racial children would have problems with being accepted here in the US? Even if that’s the case, I would think it would be far less of a problem here, than over in Korea.
Oh, no doubt most bi-racial children, especially those that don’t look very Asian at all, fit in just fine in America. Daniel Henney, Keanu Reeves, the Save by the Bell dude…you can barely tell they are at all Asian.
But that “not white enough, not Korean enough” comment is taken directly from a bi-racial friend of mine. My bet, assuming they speak English, is bi-racial children have few issues here in the U.S., but unless they are a movie star or win the Super Bowl MVP, Koreans are far less tolerant of them.
I mean, for my half-Korean friends, some of them like don’t play up that they’re Korean at all. Which is cool with me. Others definitely side with the Korean side. Which is cool with me too.
F*ck, I’m just remembering one half-Korean female friend who, she is so kind, but she was literally brought to tears when she shared with me how her Mom, her own Korean Mom, basically told her: You’re not Korean! You’re American.
And it just so happened, the half-Korean woman had a child with an African American man, and again she cried when she met some insensitive native Koreans who just couldn’t understand that a half-Korean girl could have a dark-skinned baby.
아이고…
it’s okay to look like Kim Jongil and have the last name ‘Kim’ in Korean society.
if you look not enough ‘said side’, and not enough ‘Korean’, you are discriminated against.
you can even brag about looking like Kim Jongil. Ddong bae, gopseul muhree, ugly pig like face, abhorable short height, most likely short and thin dick, etc. You are at least a genuine Kim-ga.
if it was up to me, I’d discriminate against the latter. But, that’s just me.
a lot of Korean men, me thinks, need a vasectomy before it’s too late. The sure shot is to start with males named Kim. I think Lee Myungbak, being a Lee, will support ROK tax funds for this ambitious project.
The problem is, of course, the fact that there are a whole slew of fake Kims.
I wonder if this ambitious legislative act in Korea will finally reveal who the real Kims are. People will volunteer that they are ssangnoms and posing yangbans, in order to avoid state mandated vasectomies.
wjk,
Unless your surname is Ko or Buyeo, you are just as guilty as the rest of us…
And I’m going to resurrect this term because you certainly deserve it.
wjk… you need to take your meds.
Oh, btw… if any of you reading this blog want to know what a crazy, kooky, old Korean ajoshi born in the 50′s thinks outloud but is just not fluent (or audacious) enough to express in somewhat passable English, just read wjk’s comments.
And he does all this sober! Without a shot of soju. Amazing…
this isn’t about your uncle, is it?
aRe u turning Sonagi on me? What, PASSable English? Gimme a BrEaK. This is the friggin internet.
fine, then. Tell your cousins to think twice about breeding.
You mean my comment: And look out for mixing up “your” and “you’re”. ?
I was mocking my own “Your going to have to toughen up.”
I would prefer if the discussion returned to the original topic. I’ll take titillation over grammar any day.
“By” the same token, I wonder to what extent your parents considered an abortion when discovering your mother was pregnant with you. . .but I digress.
My wife, who is a U.S. CPA, found a job with a well-known firm in midtown Manhattan very shortly after we arrived in the U.S. I’m sure she would get a chuckle out of someone like you assuming she would face disdain and rejection in the U.S.
In many ways, I feel she has adjusted better than I have. I find that I burst a new blood vessel every day I am in this city having to deal with the constant asshattery of New Yorkers.
Judging from the fact that “Netizen Kim” uses the word “miscegenation” to refer to relationships between white men and Korean women, we can safely write him off as a racist tool.
I wonder why he never considered the possibility he was rejected by many Asian and white women because of his less than stellar appearance. It’s well known that most women do actually find attractive men, well, attractive.
When I first saw NK’s photo on his blog, I remarked that he resembled Stephen Hawking. He never commented on that, but shortly thereafter he changed the photo to the one we see now, trying to look tough in his NYPD shirt, all squinty-eyed and pointy-haired. Still no Brad Pitt.
shit, dogbertt. My younger brother is also a New York State licensed CPA who works for a top 4 accounting firm in Manhatten.
you married Korean? Unbelievable.
it seems he married a US gyopo, too.
how else can she be a US licensed CPA fresh off the plane?
Korean girls, Uncle wjk has some insight for you.
Based upon the lifestyles of say dogbertt, Sperwer, dda, etc, these guys shit on your kind outside of the bedroom. All they can see is the splinter in the Korean eye, while they have freakin beams stuck in theirs. In short, they hate Koreans. You can take that thought all the way to wherever you wish to take it. If you haven’t committed the error of marrying these ‘I will rescue you and fulfill your dreams’ type, good for you.
A public message from wjk, who doesn’t really give a damn whether or not you marry Korean or foreign. Hey, it’s your life. Hope you like it.
it still fascinates me that dogbertt married a US gyopo.
oh my God !
he married whom he ridicules all the time !
Yellow Fever is real and it isn’t a fetish. Let me explain why.
1. Males are attracted to partners with more estrogen, females to partners with more testosterone – up to a certain point.
Asian females have the most estrogen – they’re the most feminine, if you’d like – and are therefore very attractive to all men – white, asian, black.
The converse is also true: the less estrogen a female has, the less atractive she is. No one wants a “manly” woman. It’s a biological thing. Which why black women are the least sought after female ethnicity, particularly by asian men.
Of course, there are other factors involved as well, but at the heart of it, asian girls find white men more attractive because of their slightly higher testosterone levels, and white men find asian girls attractive because of higher estrogen. They fit.
If the asian guys here think this theory is odd, let me ask you: which ethnicity do you (generally) find the most attractive? I’m betting asian girls. Ask a black guy which ethnicity he prefers and he’l tell you white girls (with a head-nod to asian girls). Ask a black woman, and she’ll tell you black men. Ask an asian girl, she’ll tell you asian and/or white and/or black. etc.
2. Females are also attracted to partners who they percieve as having a higher social standing – people with money and/or power.
Koreans are moving up the social ladder in the west, which is a good thing, but they’re not there yet. Hoepfully that will change, but right now a white guy might be percieved as being able to provide better. Even the lowest rung hagwon teacher in Korea makes a decent income.
3. Males and females are attracted to “exotic” people, because they represent a pathway out of their own genetically-cluttered breeding pond.
Despite the East-asian mythos popularized by Japan and adopted by Korea, interracial coupling is very, very healthy. There have been dozens and dozens of studies done on animal populations (fish stocks mainly) which support this.
That’s why (girls) a good-looking guy with an accent and different-coloured eyes is always a hit should he happen to visit a town that has few foreigners, and why foreign ladies (whether its asian, brazilian, spanish, swedish etc) are drooled over by local lads. It’s all about the genes baby!
Although I would generally agree that Asian women are more “sought after,” if you will, than Black women, I’m going to need more than just your word on the idea that Asian Women generate more estrogen. A link to a scientific/clinical study perhaps?
Plus, if Asian women generate more estrogen than average, how com Asian women, in general, lack tits and ass?
Based on my personal experience in life, I’m going to have to say the only people who have Asian fetishes are … Asian women!
That’s it, thread closed. Let’s all move on over to RAS Lecture: Korea Forty Years Ago: A Nostalgic Slideshow.
Yes… perhaps Rob can put this thread out of its misery and just close it?
Lt. B.F Pinkerton had a fetish for an Asian woman. In fact, it was so bad, he was blinded to the fact that Cio Cio San was a he. That’s yellow fever of fetish proportions. The stuff that people have been bleating about in this thread is all about their own insecurities not a bona fide socio-psychological condition.
I’m going to need more than just your word on the idea that Asian Women generate more estrogen.
Perhaps I should have said less testosterone; whatever it is that makes them more feminine. Of course, i’m just speculating.
Maybe it’s less biological and more sociological forces which cause Asian women to be eternally locked into girlhood until they pop out their third kid?
@Wangkon and Hojusaram:
This study on Polish women found that women with large breasts AND low waist-to-hip ratios had 30% higher fertility than women with other body types. Draw your own conclusions.
That’s because they’re pregnant.
Sperwer, dogbertt, dda, apparently have female Korean yellow fever.
Sheepishly coming out of the bedsheets, they come to the Marmot’s Hole to shit on Koreans.
Look how I nailed dogbertt.
He literally has nothing to say.
@hoju
As a child, my mother constantly chastised me for having larger-than-average male breasts, or “moobs.” After I went to the doctor’s office, it was found that I carry 31.6% more estrogen and 78% less testosterone than the average male at my age, which explained why I was rail-thin at 13, had no body hair and was comparable in height — and, sadly, in bosom — with the smallest girls in my class.
So your theory on estrogen attracting men resonates with me. And having been an Asian male with female-esque levels of estrogen, accordingly, there were many awkward situations. During my early teenage years, I couldn’t walk to school, wash my hands in public bathrooms or go clothes shopping with my Mom at the local shopping mall, without being preyed upon by males.
And later, when my testosterone ramped up, my voice deepened, and I switched from shoulder-length locks to a bowl haircut, the women wouldn’t leave me alone for similar, ethereal, hormonal reasons.
““miscegenation” to refer to relationships between white men and Korean women, we can safely write him off as a racist tool.”
I’m sure you’re conclusion is correct, but since miscegenation is the technically correct term for such relationships can’t quite follow your reasoning.
#231 Andy, tend to agree with you don’t know where T.Song gets that from. My other didn’t want to come to Korea, as she new the problems I’d have compared to how comfortable she was.
#231 On a practical note, I would urge caution with your idea on Korean churches. It may seem logical, but been there done that and nearly all the mixed couples we know gave it up as a bad idea after a year or two of bad experiences.
Part of the problem seems to be the loss of boundaries and outright eccentricity and infighting. Koreans who would follow certain rules in Korea, often don’t seem to feel bound by those rules elsewhere, but neither do they feel bound by those of the host country. A kind of worst of both world syndrome. Not to mention the infighting, bad mouthing and gossip from a group of people who are thrown together who in Korea would likely never mix.
It would have been better to say there’s no such thing as fetish for Asian women — because they are women. Guys are attracted to vajayjay regardless.
I’ve been watching Three’ Company lately. I notice that I’m more attracted to the “more manly” Terri Alden, Cindy Snow, and Chrissy Snow than to Janet Wood. At the same time, Janet is a dish herself amd I’m not always more attracted to the blondes on the show.
I don’t have any hard preferences. I am attracted to many different body forms, shapes, and weights, and to every race on the planet. The underlying thing is that the object of my attraction be female.
The frame of a woman or her hips or her breast size and how attractive a woman is to me can’t be expressed in terms of some value on a linear scale, ie, bigger the breasts or slighter the frame, the greater the attraction. There’s something else or more involved or perhaps it’s the combination, some subtler gestalt, of a woman and her features that makes me attracted.
In other words, guys are attracted to gals they find pretty. Which is an utterly trivial conclusion to make about human sexuality as it allows no way to explain our language of sexuality, the “fetishes” that we have for the “exotic” women in our habitats or media.
I think, “fetish” is related to “exotic”, and “exotic” here may be the degree of “otherness,” contra the “humaness,” of an object. These two traits are subjective and highly relative.
At some point, any monolid woman, any “dragon lady” or any Susy Wong or any Asian female may have seemed exotic to Americans. Sexual attraction to such women may have been like a fetish indeed.
But since the average American (or Westerner) is no longer so isolated from the rest of the world, and since our media these days is tending toward a more global flavor, more diverse information, Asian women don’t seem as exotic anymore and so the language of fetish makes less sense. If an American finds an Asian woman attractive then that’s no more signficant than a man being attracted to a woman.
But certain oddities still remain. Anyone attracted to those Burmese woman with elongated necks? I’d say most of us aren’t, and I’d say the Westerners who are attracted to such women are fetishists. But, like I said, it’s relative.
As for testosterone, remember there does exist guys like Leonardo DiCaprio, the spectrum of flower boys, pretty boys, Asian idols, and their female worshippers. The big, hairy oaf isn’t always consider the most attractive to a woman.
– I’m surprised this thread is still going. I’m beginning to feel like a broken record.
dogbert, the last thing I need is a lecture on racism from YOU, of all people.
You certainly need one from someone, NetizenKim. Your bigotry puts casual KKK members to shame. You’re like some sort of Asian Grand Dragon.
Good observations, mat. I’m surprised no one has brought up the hard fact that most Caucasian men have no preference for Asian women. In my experience, most simply don’t find Asian women at all attractive, and only a tiny minority date Asian women.
Most of the Causcasian men I’ve spoken with prefer blondes with big tits. Asian women are not even on their radar.
However, when it’s generally noted that “gentlemen prefer blondes,” it is never referred to as a “fetish” but a “preference.”
The reason certain KA gyopos refer to interracial dating as a “fetish” is pretty obvious – sour grapes – misdireting the blame for the rejection they get from Asian women, who they themselves (as opposed to Caucasian men) desire. So, if anyone has an “Asian fetish,” it’s Korean American men.
The cure is easy. Go to Korea where the Korean women prefer Korean men, and may especially want Korean American men. They’re abundant, available, and easy. After a while, you’ll have more than your fill of them and the “fetish” will dissappear.
Hm. Interesting. Who do you think wrote these little gems, mateomiguel?
Real Americans figured out manned flight, so it’s a bit arrogant of you to disparage them, especially when such things were not even imagined by your grandfather and his generation of Koreans.
And amen to bringing into the U.S. those super-intelligent German and Jewish scientists who were, moreover, culturally compatible with real Americans…
“… although it hurts your pride as an ethnic Korean, I have to reject your false assertion that all immigrants to the U.S. are equal…
“Now, all cultures are not on a level playing field. Koreans, for example, in 5000 years, had not come up with anything Americans (or others) hadn’t already. It’s clear what Einstein and Von Braun brought to the table … could Koreans have brought the same? Could Somalians? Could Papuans? Could Albanians? No…
“It’s not even about good or bad — it’s about having to draw a line. For example, there are over one billion people living in India. We can guess that at least half are “good” and of those, _at least_ half would emigrate to America tomorrow, if given the chance.
Now that would be a lot of “good” people in the U.S., but it would double our population overnight, put too much stress on resources, and reduce our quality of life in myriad ways. We have to draw a line.
I’m not even getting into ethnic and cultural dissimilarities: I used India as an example because of its huge population living in poverty who would like to emigrate…”
dogbertt’s greatest hits.
The argument here seems be who has/doesn’t have an ‘asian fetish’. OK, lets assume there are asian fetishists out there. Lets assume they are looking for a submissive woman, an oriental flower, or a fierce dragon queen. Is such a thing so bad as to attract the ire of asian American men?
Unlike many of my co-honkies I haven’t disputed this notion of Asian-girl fetish out of hand. Let’s see if there’s any truth to the hubbub, I say.
I’m happy to report I hit the streets and employed my powers of observation plus hands on research. Exhaustive research. I’ve made a shocking discovery. There’s not much fetish for Asian girls out there. There is however a remarkable fetish for white cock.
Draw your own conclusions.
# 276,
Well… asian fetish does exist. I liked to an article like 100 comments earlier written by an ASIAN WOMEN explaining that it’s real. However, an asian fetish most likely doesn’t exist when all you are surrounded by are asian women (i.e. Korea). I mean, in that case, you just have a “anything with pussy” fetish and that’s completely natural.
I mean I *linked* to an article…
Shakahachi asks: Lets assume they are looking for a submissive woman, an oriental flower, or a fierce dragon queen. Is such a thing so bad as to attract the ire of asian American men?
Nope. Not our problem. Asian women’s aversion to “Asian fetish” is the direct result of getting hit on by too many creepy White guys who give off a certain vibe. Asian-American boys are largely clueless about Asian fetish, and when they discuss it they become simpletons messing with something they don’t really understand. These fools also tend to misunderstand Asian women’s anti-Asian fetish stance as a sign of “intra-gender solidarity” with her fellow Asian brothers. Mindlessly they jump in say “Yeah, say no to Asian fetish!”. Wrong! When an Asian woman says she dislikes Asian Fetish, eight out of ten times she means that she just wants a “normal” White guy (ie. sans the fetish) and out of the remaining two, one has grown sick of White guys and willing to try Black, Hispanic, or Some-other, and the remaining last one is about to turn lesbian. Hence, not really my problem.
Personally, I don’t see what the big deal is either. Fetish is a flavor that the mind tastes. Also important to keep in mind is that it is an object-subject problem. I have written about it from both perspectives. Our rigid, self-imposed doctrines of Political Correctness has made us all very hypersensitive and defensive about it, because it is race-based, making us all feel guilty about a pleasure that doesn’t really harm anyone. We might as well turn back the clock to the dark ages, when it was considered wrong for women to have an orgasm or for there to be any pleasure at all in the act of procreation. I’m willing to bet there are quite a few Asian women who accept their status as objects of Asian fetish, and see it as an advantage in the dating market, or in the case of Kerri Farrell, use it as an aid in deception.
Mizar the Mystery Meat said: The reason certain KA gyopos refer to interracial dating as a “fetish” is pretty obvious – sour grapes – misdireting the blame for the rejection they get from Asian women, who they themselves (as opposed to Caucasian men) desire. So, if anyone has an “Asian fetish,” it’s Korean American men.
I wish you were right, Mizar. Give me a hundred disgruntled, agitated gyopos with a bad case of the sour grapes and we could turn the world upside down. But the way I see it, too many of my peers are:
A. A clueless bubble-boys unwilling to emerge from the safety and comfort-zone of their fish tank
B. In denial, apathetic
C. Skittish milequetoasts, wishy-washy jellyfishes lacking backbone, unable to stand up to the scrutiny and pressure of society
D. Insufferable mama’s boys, congenital Dickless Wonders who bank on their Mommies hooking them up with a “hottie” from the “Motherland”
E. Always full of useless pride about worthless crap but unable to take a real stand on relevant issues that matter
F. Some combination of all of the above
It doesn’t make me angry to see AF-WM couples. It is what it is. It only annoys me in the same sense that a cliché is annoying. Hell, I’m actually grateful because it woke me up in a damn hurry from my own stupor years ago. But it makes my blood boil to witness my peers willfully accept complacent mediocrity in thought and deed.
The cure is easy. Go to Korea where the Korean women prefer Korean men, and may especially want Korean American men. They’re abundant, available, and easy. After a while, you’ll have more than your fill of them and the “fetish” will dissappear.
Please see “D” above.
That’s really not gonna work for me, Mizar. I could come up with any number of good reasons why that’s a silly, cop-out move but, in short, I’d prefer the dignity of squarely dealing with my problems here in the US rather than avoiding or running away from them. The other thing is, I’ve already been with Korean women (from Korea that is). I guess my other problem is I need a righteous babe who can think as well as look good. I know that’s a freaking tall order but I really don’t care.
i wish you all the best in your search, nutizen. keep hoping that opposites really do attract.
The only somewhat interesting take away from this ginormous thread is that it’s obvious that Mizar has stopped trying… dogbertt probably puts me in the catagory of “fake” american… and that NK appears to think that all white women don’t find him attractive.
NK,
Which one I’m I, eh?
I suppose I am an A, not wanting to leave that big, safe glass kimchi jar of the Korean community.
In Chicago… that’s a pretty small jar you got there.
In LA, we have a 6 square mile sized kimchi jar, it’s called Koreatown…
WangKon:”The only somewhat interesting take away from this ginormous thread is that it’s obvious that Mizar has stopped trying…”
No, sorry, I’m still not buying into the myth.
But for me the most interesting take-away is the raw, honest vulnerability NK displayed, which has made me increasingly sympathetic to him and his perspectives.
hey imposter, show some balls. Or shut up.
you don’t have a son.
you’re not Korean.
you never worked at Samsung.
you don’t live in Brooklyn.
you’re not from kyongsangdo.
you don’t have a gommo who married a Japanese.
WK,
Actually, Mizar stopped trying earlier, when he said this in the other thread:
damn html…
TK,
Thank you for correctly getting what I was referring to.
I’m more interested in something else.
wjk, how come you hardly ever type in 한글?
Honest question. Please don’t harass me.
JW, did you know thekorean used to be my fan?
That’s besides the point.
Ask him. Google it. I think the backstabbing point was when he became in love with Obama.
I learned to type at the tender age of the summer before 9th grade in the US. I won’t call him a teacher. I’ll call him instructor. All he did was say, Type, Stop, Type, Stop.
Mr. Saul. Cerritos High School, Cerritos, California. The most famous gyopo graduate is Tony Ahn. Real name Seungho Ahn, who also went by Anthony.
I type as fast as a ‘Chicago typewriter.’ I never learned to type in Korean. I never signed up for cyworld. I do not use msn messenger. The latter two shows that I had no reason at all to learn to type in Korean, as a US gyopo receiving US higher education.
Oh, I just found it to be a lil interesting cuz someone who’s interested in Korean history would find it absolutely necessary that he learns to type in hangeul.
I haven’t been posting here that long, but is Mizar posting as a Korean or Korean-American? Actually, on Korea Beat it was found that a white Canadian was posting under a Korean name. And there have been some questions over the assumed identities in my short time here.
My quandry: Why the f*** would you pose as a Korean or gyopo? Why?
That’s just sad man.
@WK
You’re totally right. Chicago’s Korean community is the smallest glass jar of kimchi at H-Mart, while LA is a field of 항아리들 somewhere in the 시골, preferably from jeollado (I can never spell that in Korean properly b/c of the damn 받침).
Here… lots of quantity… not necessarily quality.
WK,
How about this radical theory? (Warning: NK bait ahead.)
Maybe some of the “white dude dating the frumpy Asian gal” phenomenon can be traced to some subconscious “Christian charity” notion of philanthropy. Westerners have been adopting unwanted Korean babies for decades. Is it so hard to imagine that some of that same basic sympathy for the unwanted and unloved is finding its way into dating patterns?
Over to you, NK.
DLB
it’s an exciting couple days here.
1/ dogbertt has been shown to be married to a gyopo.
2/ Mizar5 chickened out when he was called to prove his gyoponess. He’s not a gyopo. But everyone already knew that.
JW, I went to primary school in Korea before the internet even existed. You know, the land where ‘critical thinking’ is not done, but somehow children can solve 14*14 without having to memorize what 15*15 might be. I am older than my graduating classmates. But, I have a full set of hair and I have yet to give up my virginity, so God must like wjk.
That was a display of some fine critical thinking above.
@wjk: I’m not married to a kyopo.
@WangKon: Au contraire, I would never call you a “fake” anything. Nor would I “tar you with the same brush”. Netizen Kim no more represents you and your way of thinking than he does me or mine, I’m sure.
I would say that I agree with your earlier quote from “The Good Shepherd”.
And I did chuckle though when you called “Buyeo” a Korean surname.
Give it up? I’ll give you $5 if you can name one woman who would willingly take it.
did wjk just admit to be a misogynistic, bitter, spiteful crazy 40-year-old virgin? I think he did!
Hey wjk buy some cats. The more the better.
But maybe he can sing like Susan Boyle…
“My quandry: Why the f*** would you pose as a Korean or gyopo? Why?”
Because it’s different. The angle is different.
Mizar5′s personality, his lack of range, the way he debates with others here without showing any real comprehension of the comments he replies to, can be understood by considering that he is someone’s sock puppet. Don’t expect earnest opinions. Someone’s having some fun.
dogbertt,
1) Re: The Good Shepherd. I remember that. Now I don’t agree w/what Edward said, but yeah I remember it.
2) Buyeo is an ancient Korean surname that was once claimed by the Baekje kings. I never said it was a current Korean surname. As a matter of fact, that was part of my point to wjk. It is no longer a surname used on the Korean peninsula. However, I think some Japanese still have that surname.
Wangkon asks: NK, Which one I’m I, eh?
You’re not Canuckistani. So cut it out with the “eh?” business. I know you have some kind of a man-crush on Linkd so stop trying to bait him. It’s way too transparent.
I dunno. You tell me. Or not. Myself, I was any one of those things at various points in my life except D. My upbringing was such that I never a mama’s boy (which I am very thankful for) nor was I a Dickless Wonder (growing up in the Bronx, you learn rather quickly that’s an invitation for ridicule).
no, dumped-by-Koreangirl-whitecock, aka Miguel.
I am 30. 40 is very unusual but not unheard of. My girl friend wants to get married within a year. We have not had sex. I have not seen her naked. I have seen her dressed and it seems she has the tits and ass criteria to prevent me from cheating on her. B cup? But pretty and not sagging. Church wants to appoint her a jipsanim. Gyopo church appointment of jipsanims in their 20′s is alarming. I am religious, but I think it’s just a ploy to keep them as permanent members. My mother wants me to wed another doctor. Thus, she doesn’t like my girlfriend. I like her also because she’s willing to go with me to Alabama.
Maybe your white cock didn’t give her feelings ‘special’ enough. Not hard enough, probably. Sucks to be you. I’m laughing at you. Have another beer.
@abcd
I had always imagined the confused Mizar as White anyways, but to find out that he tried to pass him off as Korean…that’s just weird. I wish like Twitter or Facebook we could delete seeing other members’ posts, because after that, wow…
Is Mizar doing that again?
wjk, you are so wrong on so many things, because you assume so much that isn’t true about life, the universe, and everything. But rarely am I in the position of being able to school you so totally and succinctly as I am now, so that’s what I’m gonna do. Sit down and listen to Papi Mat tell you how it is.
1. My cock isn’t white.
2. The young lady in question was also a nice church girl, probably nicer than your fiance. She was already a leader in her church community in her 20s, so she’s got a leg up on your fiance there.
3. Since she was such a nice, conservative girl, she was, like your fiance, saving it for marriage. I respect both her and your fiance for making that choice, after all its theirs to make. If you’ll refer back to my little mini-testimony, you’ll notice I was bragging that she said I was the best KISSER she’s ever had. Cock doesn’t come into it.
4. This girl is probably in most respects identical to your fiance. But she was with me for a while, a non-Korean. So its just like your fiance was with me. This means you either have to demonize your fiance or elevate me to a level of respectability. Make your choice.
5. Never talk about or think about my cock again. Keep your dick-fixation focused on others’, or, ideally, your own.
wjk: Jim, it seems like US gyopo would fit dogbertt’s wife perfectly.
Jim: wjk, you’re probably wrong, but tell us why.
wjk: Well, Jim, I am not an expert, but in the US, each state has its own criteria and exams to license a Certified Public Accountant.
Jim: like lawyers have their own bars, and doctors have their own boards?
wjk: kind of, Jim.
Jim: but, could dogbertt’s wife be a Korean, or another type of Asian he met in Korea?
wjk: well, Jim, because dogbertt came from Korea, after a long stay in Korea, to New York City, it seems that the probability is highest that dogbertt married a Korean. It is Korea, afterall.
Jim: interesting, wjk.
wjk: well, I admit it’s an educated guess, Jim.
Jim: you still confident about dogbertt having wed a gyopo?
wjk: yes, Jim. I think US CPA’s also have to take a variable number of accounting courses before they qualify to sit for the CPA exam. Well, to be honest, any US accounting degree granting institution will fulfill this for almost all 50 US states. But, I think it would be really questionable whether or not New York State will accept accounting courses taken at Yonsei or Koryo, etc.
Jim: why not, wjk? People go to grad school in the US with undergrad work from Yonsei, Koryo, etc.
wjk: Well, Jim, like I said, I’m not certain dogbertt married a US gyopo.
Jim: wjk, don’t spread false rumors.
wjk: Yeah, that’s bad Jim. However, Jim, I think the odds reside with the fact that dogbertt married a Korean, and that Korean was a US citizen before she married dogbertt. Therefore, a gyopo.
Jim: come on, wjk.
wjk: Well, I’d be surprised if she sat for the New York State CPA exam in Seoul. But, then again, it is a global world, and I honestly am not a CPA, but my brother is. I haven’t picked his mind about an immigrant from Korea landing a US CPA job. Dogbertt’s defense was also significantly time delayed. In the case of foreign doctors coming to the US, it’s a much cumbersome road, I know that for sure.
Jim: wjk, I see why people don’t like you.
wjk: I don’t care Jim. Gyopo is the one that makes the most sense, unless dogbertt cares to elaborate.
im not a gyopo. i am a white esl teacher living in itaewon. as an esl teacher, i know that many white els teachers are all pothead. i have to deal with them everyday and it totally sux. they r in sk bc they know they can’t never get a job that pays more than 35k a year in the states… but their community college degree is often good enough for many koreans. as a white esl teacher, i am very ashamed of behavior of my people. please forgive my people koreans!
the scary thing is that for wjk, Jim is real. They have conversations like this every day. In his head.
as a white guy, i fully understand why white guys love asian girls. asian girls popped cherries of many white men who cannot get a date from a white girls. asian girls are the biggest cherry poppers of white man.
wjk. I want to take a break from attacking you for one second, because looking back at that conversation you posted between you and the fictitious Jim, I realized that it is the most coherent and clear method that you have ever used to communicate. I can follow the conversation easily, they are both snappy and witty characters, and the point is both clear to understand and not too overbearing. You might actually want to seriously consider communicating in that style more often. Staged conversations between characters set up in order to illustrate a point has a very long literary tradition, going all the way back to Plato. Compared with your usual one liners separated by a white line, it is miles better for readability and coherence.
I’m not being sarcastic!
Ok, now back to the fight.
Interesting that some self-appointed “expert” like “the korean” makes a fool of himself pretendint that he knows anything about yeonton when, unlike me, he has probably never lived in a house heated by yeonton, or lost an immediate family member to carbon monoxide poisoning back in the days before water pipes when there were simply air spaces under the floors.
Ah, the sophomoric hubris of youth.
abcdefg: “Mizar5’s personality, his lack of range, the way he debates with others here without showing any real comprehension of the comments he replies to, can be understood by considering that he is someone’s sock puppet. Don’t expect earnest opinions. Someone’s having some fun.”
I wrote that myself.
#297
How about this radical theory? (Warning: NK bait ahead.)
Maybe some of the “white dude dating the frumpy Asian gal” phenomenon can be traced to some subconscious “Christian charity” notion of philanthropy. Westerners have been adopting unwanted Korean babies for decades. Is it so hard to imagine that some of that same basic sympathy for the unwanted and unloved is finding its way into dating patterns?
Over to you, NK.
I seem to recall the phrase: “the road to Hell is paved with Good Intentions.” I don’t remember where I picked that up. I read it in a book somewhere.
You mention adoption of Korean babies by Westerners. Kari Ferrell was one such adopted child. I’ll just leave it at that.
Western aid to Africa is another example of humanitarianism supposedly rooted in Judeo-Christian ethic. Epic failure. Such aid fosters unhealthy dependency and de-incentivizes local enterprise. Ultimately, it is not a dignified existence for the recipients of such aid and they know it. It is just another form of enslavement. This is also a reason why Affirmative Action is bad.
Yours is not really a radical theory. It’s an old familiar idea. I believe it is called the White Man’s Burden. Old School Whiteys may have have believed in it in earnest during the sepia-tinted past. Old School Whitey is far and few in between nowadays. They just don’t make Whitey like they used to anymore. But then what do I know? I’m not a Whitey after all.
Today, the White Man’s Burden has devolved into the White Dude’s Burden: liberate the oppressed and sleep with whomever you want!.
Oriental tradition has a similar refrain called Confucianism, encapsulated by hierarchies and formally defined relationships between Old and Young, Man and Woman, Parent and Child, State and Subject, etc. The difference is that Orientals did not inflict this philosophy on other far-flung peoples but on mostly each other.
The core idea of each philosophy is the basic notion that the “Superior Man” is essentially good. It is a fatally flawed assumption. Social mechanisms fundamentally based upon this notion set themselves up for failure from the get-go, whether it be European imperialism or many aspects of Asian history and civilization. Real Christianity, familiar to those who have actually read the Book and have understood it correctly, is that Man is fundamentally sinful. When that is taken as a starting working assumption to govern human interactions, you have a chance at erecting far better social structures. It is curiously a more cynical worldview and yet simultaneously it begets more overall collective well-being than its inverse cousin. It is a much more humbler understanding of and closer to actual reality. This basic notion manifests itself in the American body politic as checks and balances.
Now I will apply this reasoning to some familiar fantasies deeply cherished by Expats with Korean Wives/GFs [TM]. It is well understood by this gyopo that many White guys in Korea are afflicted with White Dude’s Burden Syndrome. I also understand that Western men are symbols of freedom and liberation from stuffy, overbearing Confucian paternalism amongst the native womenfolk, the residues of which I admit still persists to this day in Korea. Basically, as far as I can tell, polishing the White knob (and the occasional Black knob also) while boycotting Yellow knob is the Asian woman’s take on feminism, in some sense. Something similar also happens in America as well.
Tis a sad state of affairs, in my non-humble opinion, and reflects quite poorly on both men and women of Asian heritage. Things could be a lot better than this. I am not a feminist by any stretch of the imagination but I will say this: Korean men still remain, for the most part, chauvinist pigs. I will also magnanimously grant that in comparison Western men seem a lot more enlightened and liberalized, at least on a superficial level. However, women are equally accountable for male chauvinism, whether they know it or not. Fred Reed took the oft convoluted dynamic between Men and Women and distilled it to this simple, time-honored irrefutable truth: Men want Sex and Women want Money. Men are willing to trade Money for Sex and Women vice versa. My Political/Economic Theory of Pussy maintains that in any given society, the closer that the general properties of the interaction between the men and women of that society resembles the Basic Characteristic, the more chauvinistic that society is. Men objectify Women as Sex Objects. Women objectify Men as ATM machines. Call it “reverse-chauvinism”, if you will. Each has positive feedback reinforcing effect on each other. By this measure, where does Korean women stand in relation to their Western counterparts? If Korean male-dominated chauvinism is really a problem in Korean society, then Korean women are not doing enough in their morally obligated role in effecting change. There is simply no excuse. For what it’s worth, Korean society is much more liberalized today than during my parent’s generation. My folks, whose understanding of Korea remains stuck in a late-70s time-warp stand-still, go back and it feels like a damn foreign country to them. Korean women today have access to higher education and compared to most Middle Eastern cultures, Korea is a hotbed of gender-based enlightenment. The Asian Woman’s Feminism, as I have delineated above, is obviously not the answer to real meaningful lasting social reform and is simply a transfer of reverse-chauvinism unto Western males. I’m just telling it like it is and I’m being quite charitable and restrained about it too.
Western women, on the other hand, raised in the tradition of Western feminism, hold no such views. For them, all, ALL men suck equally. In that sense, they are oddly egalitarian. This worldview uncannily echoes Romans 3:23 (For all men have sinned…fall short of the glory of God). That’s God’s way of saying: you all suck equally. In America, reverse-chauvinism has a diminished presence compared to Korea. That means you can be broke-ass SOB but if you have a magic dick or have a dextrous tongue to make up for it, you’re not entirely hopeless.
Maybe some of the “white dude dating the frumpy Asian gal” phenomenon can be traced to some subconscious “Christian charity” notion of philanthropy…Is it so hard to imagine that some of that same basic sympathy for the unwanted and unloved is finding its way into dating patterns?
#314 so no we’ve got someone posing as as a waygukin. Or are you posing as a korean posing as waygukin or ad infinitum
NK appears to be arguing from omniscience, reading into the minds and hearts of that exotic monster, the white male.
But, unlike others, he at least hasn’t become so unglued as to resorting to personal attacks, having failed to present a logical defence for a position they somehow hold dear.
NK, you’re rough around the edges, but worth 10 abcdefgs and t_songs.
If the CPA is like the New York bar you may need to take the exam in the US but you don’t need to study for it there.
Arghaeri, no wonder you pose as Danger Mouse!
@NK,
Wonderful post–you always put in words ideas I am too lazy to organize myself. Like this:
Many threads back I gave a sister’s insight (not my personal views but picking it up from being in Korea) which was derailed because I was called a bitch. I see NK has picked up on that and elaborated in his mighty fine way, labeling it as a Korean woman’s feminism.
I agree with most of it. However, a few points.
I wouldn’t place the Western women compared to their Korean counterparts, having reached a higher level of understanding of a male-female relationship despite their history of suffrage and fighting for equal everything. I see the trend in the West with regards to this issue, that they are just as confused and lost when it comes to the male-female relationship. Hence, the Sex in the City girls, the Bridget Jones’, and my countless single Western girlfriends who *have it all* but the perfect boyfriend.
Bar the Taliban, I’ve actually encountered the Middle Eastern culture (also including Jewish) actually quite matriarch-prone, with much power to the woman, including in the government. I would say they have a higher regard for their womenfolk, except for the dress code and some horrors associated to the moral conduct.
I actually was discussing this very topic with a White friend, of the history in Christianity for the well to-do’s to take care of the less fortunate. And we thought of a small list of causes that the predominantly White, middle-class, college educated crowd take up and choose to be mortally offended by. Based on their affluence, relative ease during childhood years and status quo position in society, many upper middle class White people look for ways to identify — and in some causes try to solve — struggles, conflicts in their own life.
From that list:
–Gay Marriage
–Peace Corps
–Organic Foods/Obesity
–Feminism
–PETA
–Global Warming/Recycling
–Non-Liberalized, non-Westernized cultures
Any others the peanut gallery — Koreans, gyopos, non-gyopos posing as gyopos, whites, blacks, etc. — want to weigh in?
whoops–morally, not mortally
Though, come to think of it, it could be mortally ㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ
Classic picture caption from the Korean Times READ CAREFULLY.
“Top figure skater Kim Yu-na, right, poses with first lay Kim Yoon-ok during a ceremony to appoint her as South Korea’s tourism promotion ambassador at Cheong Wa Dae Wednesday.”
A fresh point that I would like to make is that Korean women like to be in control of the family purse-string. This is traditional. If you look at the history and the infighting in the court, a whole lot of it originated from the women & their 이간질. They have been doing this “controlling Eve” thing expertly for a long long time. In a lot of the Korean companies, a lot of the company politics get done when the wives meet for flower-arranging. I also don’t agree (if you have worked in a Korean company) that there is an equal opportunity for korean women. The glass ceiling is much lower for a Korean woman than it is for a Western woman. I think both Korean women and men are responsible for this. So the Korean women have always had power, they still do in fact, but they are still stuck in the times when it’s power *through* men.
Yuna:”they are just as confused and lost when it comes to the male-female relationship.”
Yuna, while I ordinarily avoid overgeneralizations, you’ve hit upon a universal here. That kind of comment in a thread erstwhile devoted to racial slurs is rather refreshing.
That’s why there is a huge business for the introduction agencies & 선, 중매 ajummas. Because it’s a business transaction that can change your life.
So, it all boils down to what you want in a partner. If you come from the school of thought that marriage is something you need to get out of your parent’s house without them worrying about your washing, health, and a liberated sex-life that will shame their friends, and to have someone pick up your underwear and give you 용돈 (and there is absolutely nothing wrong with this set-up) then go for it. There is an exception to this – if a woman has a well-paying 전문직 such as a lawyer, or a doctor, then I find that the men will not hesitate before asking her to marry him, and stay with her.
Seems men want women to be dads as well as mums nowadays.
I think I digressed a lot
“Any others the peanut gallery — Koreans, gyopos, non-gyopos posing as gyopos, whites, blacks, etc. — want to weigh in?”
How about boys with tits?
Seriously, have you ever lived in Korea? I mean since emigrating as an adult? Or do you at least read/watch Korean media? Because it’s hard to miss the fact that the kind of lert-wing moral indignation you ascribe to white people is so much in evidence among Koreans nowadays that they put their American counterparts to shame.
OK, now back to the topic at hand. Someone(I cannot remember) gave a few examples of successful/power couple in the public eye including Rupert Murdoch and Wendy Deng(again she is much younger, and not his first wife). I also would like to include in that list another classic, Woody Allen and Sunee(?) Previn. Even if they have found true love now, and good luck to them, how many people didn’t cringe at this? Woody Allen is not even a desperate man!
When I was in Stockholm, I read in the local paper, written by a middle aged male Korean adoptee!(maybe their own John Huer) that Western men find Oriental attractive tend to be a little bit of a paedophilia.
Of course, while being indignant, it gets people a little bit hot under the collar. Some were talking about asian women with smaller bosoms and bums, this would be one explanation.
Again, there is nothing wrong with preferring a bit of unripe taste in a fruit, as long as it’s not actually going to the full length of wanting to have sex with children. One’s sexual feeling lies somewhere on one long scale of perversion.
My conclusion? Asian Fetish exists, for now. It’s not made up by male kyopos and Korean men.
However, I wouldn’t say that Keri Ferrell or whatever her name is, necessarily played on that exclusively. I think she was just a chronic, self-serving liar. Someone who exists in every culture.
thank u netizen kim, u always provide us with enlightening comments. perhaps u should have a talk with ur fellow gyopo, mizar.
tend to be a little bit of paedophilia -> tend to suffer from a little bit
And to be honest, pedophilia is pretty natural.
Even the great prophet Mohammad, couldn’t resist.
…there is a book called “free food for millionaires” which is really an airport mills and boon, but nevertheless, has some interesting generalizations into love between the american…
I highly recommend this book mentioned briefly by yuna, “Free Food for Millionaires” for anyone whose interested, particularly gyopo readers who wish to read about this aspect of the Korean-American experience as a fictional narrative. It was written by a KA woman author Min Jin Lee and it is most highly entertaining. I have a copy myself but it is a rather thick tome and I mostly skimmed through it, focusing mostly on the juicy bits. Among other things, it affords a rarified insider’s look into the world of a prototypical Ivy League educated Asian girl immersed in the alpha-male white boy saturated culture of Wall Street from the perspective of Korean woman writer. The book is also gets heavy into the Korean Presbyterian church scene, which is portrayed as proper and conservative on the surface but teeming with steamy soap-operatic seediness underneath (middle-aged ajumma’s gone wild).
I agree with Ms Lee’s thesis that this IR controversy represents a kind of loss of innocence in the general state of affairs between contemporary Asian-American men and women. All the familiar elements of the Fall are present in this particular brand of modern drama: Adam, Eve, Forbidden Fruit, the Serpent, the blame game, etc. It doesn’t take a great stretch to figure what each represents what in metaphorical terms. To underscore this imagery, Ms Lee wrote: Unu picked up a piece of purple chalk. Hunching over, he drew long stalks of grass framing her flowers. She fell softly on her knees and began to color in the petals, and Unu joined her on the ground and began to draw a tree. And there it ends, rather abruptly, the future destination of these two left deliberately unspecified. The implied question obviously left hanging in the air: after everything is said and done, where do we go from here, moving forward?
And that question is what I am most interested in…
#321 Mizar, I resemble that remark
, if you look I am clearly represented as Penfold, Dangermouse’s bumbling, cowardly hamster sidekick.
Re #318
The core idea of each philosophy is the basic notion that the “Superior Man” is essentially good.
Should be edited to…the “Superior Man” is essentially good and noble.
Also re-word “reverse-chauvinism” to “reverse-sexism”.
I’m still in draft mode.
*spoiler alert*
my 트집 with the book would be when the main character walks out on the white guy when she finds the asian porn video in his stash. i can identify with her that the fact the women weren’t even attractive to start off with being one of the reasons she was offended, (well, cry me a river and call me a bitch again, but honestly, I find attractive people more of a turn on. for example, Japanese AV is much more attractive than the stupid crap white men put out under the title *horny asian bitches*) but I somehow don’t buy it affecting someone as liberal and experienced as her so much that she suddenly has to leave.
“My conclusion? Asian Fetish exists, for now. It’s not made up by male kyopos and Korean men.”
Yuna, then how do you explain away the fact that Asians are the only cohort who use the term “fetish” when describing interracial relationships?
kimchi2000:”thank u netizen kim, u always provide us with enlightening comments. perhaps u should have a talk with ur fellow gyopo, mizar.”
It would appear that we are in agreement that NK’s comments are the best ones on his side of the subject. They’re honest, and he doesn’t reduce himself to strawman, argumentum ad hominem and other irrational appeals.
Gee Mizar, if you lost your immediate family member to carbon monoxide poisoning, why did you say the way to kill yourself is to “injest” [sic] it? That is in addition to the fact that you Romanized 연탄 as “yeonton”, like you would write 연톤. No Korean makes that mistake. (Don’t even claim it’s a typo — you did that twice.)
Half of my extended family lived in a 연탄-heated house.
@NK
About Min Jin Lee…I always am skeptical of a story about the Korean immigrant experience, especially after the first book I picked up on it was Native Speaker, but would you recommend it? There’s just something about Ivy League schools and iBanking…I mean, I could see why the ajummas would be all over this book.
I’ve always thought the more interesting route for a Korean immigrant book was about all the kids who didn’t go to a namebrand school, who rebelled or failed to attain that Model Minority status. This works for Korean kids too. Most of the Western media, well and Korean media, focus on the SKY schools, and the intense focus of students at like Daewon Foreign Language school, but that’s like the upper 5%! I”d like to read the story about the Korean kids who busted their ass their entire lives and landed in mediocrity. That’s more impressive than reading about yet another Korean kid who made it to Harvard, Yale or Princeton.
I’ve met some of those Korean kids–they’re sort of tools! Especially the gyopos…now, the gyopos from Rutgers on the other hand…
Is it Asians who came up with the term? I didn’t know & this isn’t true. Wasn’t it Robert himself who came up with the heading?
Actually, I already objected to the term fetish being used for scholarly/historic reasons here , but I came under fire, & that I was being too exact, so I decided to be less pedantic and go with the flow.
Whatever you want to call it. The highly skewed distribution of the preference of Asian females by White males. Asian F being the “flavour of the month” whatever you want to call it.
I just asked my sweet mum why she thinks there are a lot of white male and Asian female relationships – her answer is classic.
“I don’t know, it’s not true, is it?”
She then went onto say, “maybe it’s because they think that Asian women are 순종적, who knows?”
Yuna,
I think japanese porn has alot to do with this.
As a mid-term denizen, the Korean has been around long enough to see some of the glitches in the Mizar 5.0 release, but not long enough to have gotten used to them.
Just letting you know, tK, as one sorta-smart guy to one really-smart guy, if you make a crusade out of it, you’ll start looking pretty silly pretty fast.
wjk,
A friend of mine also has US certification for CPA, and that person is also just a regular Korean, not a kyopo. Such courses are popular in Korea at the moment.
Duly noted Linkd. Work has been stressful lately and I’ve been feeling cranky. I need a break…
That’s the way of it at times like these. Fire half the staff and make the ones who remain assume all their duties. But a raise, in this economy? Just be glad you have a job to do. I bet you know a few who shared your income bracket a year ago that don’t anymore.
“Gee Mizar, if you lost your immediate family member to carbon monoxide poisoning, why did you say the way to kill yourself is to “injest” [sic] it?”
If you missed the joke first time around, there’s really no point in explaining it.
“That is in addition to the fact that you Romanized 연탄 as “yeonton”, like you would write 연톤. No Korean makes that mistake. (Don’t even claim it’s a typo — you did that twice.)”
Neither a typo nor a mistake. I’ve experienced various attempts at romanization of Korean over the years and disagree with that approach. I believe the English pronunciation should be make sence to actual English speakers rather than some attempt to utilize some arbitrary romanaization system that a non-Korean would have no frame of reference to be able to understand and pronounce. An American would definitely mispronounce the 탄 as as “tan”, when it is in fact pronounced as ton, as in Washington. Get it?
I might be old fashioned but I still prefer the spellings “Taegu” to “Daegu” and “Pusan” to “Busan”, because they just look better.
Words like Hyundai and Tae Kwon Do are prescriptions for disaster. How many times have you heard Americans say Ti Kwon Do and Hyundi?
“Half of my extended family lived in a 연탄-heated house.”
But you admit that you’ve never personally lived in one or had to get up in the middle of the night to change one as I have, right? And hopefully you’ve never experienced the tragedy of having a family member killed in the prime of his youth due to a fumes seeping through a cracked floor?
Back in the days of my youth growing up in the countryside, the floors were heated by hot air flues rather than water pipes. I’ve seen numerous cases of yeonton poisoning, and while by some miracle some folks were saved, one teen cousin actually died in his sleep.
I guess I just took it for granted that someone calling himself “the korean” would have some sort of background in this and might know a bit more about the subject.
I suppose there are numerous reasons for these gaps in your experience. But, please, take Linkd’s advise – to expose your lack of judgment and knowledge does make you look pretty silly.
Wrong Mr. Poser!!!! heh heh heh
Ok, not a perfect shwa vowel sound but in English, 탄 would sound more like the word on than an, get it, JWboy?
@rjk
Is there really no feature for us to be able to filter out certain users? I actually like this thread of discussion, from all angles, except for Mizar–and his reputation (is he even a he?) precedes him from credible trusted sources.
@yuna
Is the best translation for 순종적 domestic? I also asked my sweet Mom (sorry, in the states we use the O) what 손종적 means, and she said (translated cuz I can’t spell in Korean worth a shite!) that it’s a woman who listens to what her man says and stays inside the house–versus outside it.
Can anyone else provide a better translation than my rough one?
I’d thought maybe homebody, but 엄마 didn’t have a clue what that word meant, thinking it was home buddy! Ouch.
Uh sure, so why don’t you just go ahead and create your own system of romanization and show it to the world? We’ll call it the Mizar-KoreanPoser system. Sounds about right.
“and his reputation (is he even a he?) precedes him from credible trusted sources”
That’s called argumentum ad hominem, and it’s a strawman argument, t_song. I’m curious why you would take the discussion so personally. Oh, I forgot, you’re not talking to me just about me – or at least your projection of who I am. Carry on then.
babelfish.yahoo.com
Obedient
You don’t like Mizar’s angle? That’s pretty obvious, since Mizar’s singular purpose is to be the anti-kyopo.
With a little help from dda, I’ve made wjk disappear from my screen. Maybe dda will give you a magic wand to dispel Mizar some day. But I recommend you don’t ask for one. Mizar might speak with a rare country accent, but you and JW could both learn a lot about Korea from him.
@Linkd
Obedient? Really? Interesting–
NK,
A couple of things. I had once liked chatting with Linkd. We both can talk in accounting and economics language and he’s got an interesting bit of Canadian “Han” in him which gives him a little bit of a “small country vs. big country” grrrr… vibe. I think if Linkd was muslim he would be a great wahhabist because he’s already got the “America is the great Satan” mantra down pretty well. However, he’s got a creepy, almost cultish fascination with IHBB that I just can’t fit into my head, thus I like to keep my distance.
Regarding what “type” I am. I like to think I’m none of the above. I have a very unusual background, even by gyopo standards, that make me hard to easily classify. The fact that I actually know something about Korean and Korean American history differentiates me from most gyopos right off the bat.
Regarding “Free Food for Millionaires” by Min Jin Lee. I didn’t like it as much as you. My review of the book is a featured “Customer Review” on Amazon.com. I’ll post what I wrote for your perusal.
t_song,
I’m sorry, but I gotta disagree with you here. Why go through the trouble of filtering out some of the more eccentric and colorful people? They provide a good deal of entertainment no? Maybe you like your job alot. I sure as hell don’t, and reading this stuff gets me through the day. Yes, pathetic, I know.
Filtering people out at a frikken internet blog can also be construed as a sign of weakness, in my opinion. NetizenKim would surely agree.
Of course, if everything was MEANT to be serious, that’d be a lil different.
… or maybe t_song just likes his job more than you…
Yeah yeah yeah, same difference
@JW,
I am not a fan at all of censorship and the more eccentric and thought-provoking the better. Even if those thoughts run contrary to my own–hell, especially if its a contrarian idea.
Entertainment value.
Maybe I’m too idealistic in the notion that these blog comment communities/message boards can be some house of ideas, some mental masturbation to derive some pleasure from my workday (my job is…meh, 그냥 그래). A kaleidoscope of ideas is one thing, an admired and ideal thing.
Entertainment value.
Surely!
Alas, I know the Mizar types, especially since I’m convinced he’s posing as a Korean. He’s not even a troller, but rather an antagonist, someone who pokes and prods not to bring out a fresh perspective but to simply poke and prod. I’m sure Mizar is an outstanding human being offline, but his online personality seems to be THAT guy or girl who enjoys spoiling the ending of movies, saying offensive things only to immediately withdraw them (oh, I was just joking!) and blurting, repeatedly, “Are we there yet?” while taking car rides longer than 4 minutes.
Maybe what I just wrote is Snowman or Tinman or whatever, but while I can parse entertainment versus unreasonable seriousness, there is a third category which I simply choose to ignore.
Maybe censor was too strong of an idea, however.
“Maybe what I just wrote is Snowman or Tinman or whatever, but while I can parse entertainment versus unreasonable seriousness, there is a third category which I simply choose to ignore.”
You specified that my intent is simply to antagonize, for some reason known only to yourself. But as someone who sees things from a 500 mile perspective, I am aware that calling sacred cows into question invokes antagonism, which you are apparently projecting onto me.
Although the term you’re looking for is strawman, I don’t think that applies here. What you appear to be doing is arguing from omniscience, the pretence of having some special knowledge of the inner workings of the mind of someone about which you in fact know nothing. By imputing and projecting inner motives such as antagonism onto the most reasonable and dispassionate of posters, you can effectively dismiss new perspectives out of hand, which is called denial. Is it really so painful to entertain a new perspective? The Korean expression for this is “can’t learn.” Of course, I could be and hopefully will be proven wrong. I don’t pretend to have access to the inner workings of your mind.
I have brought out some interesting points that have not been countered. Instead I have observed eel wriggling, bald assertion, argumentum ad hominem, and numerous other logical fallacies employed in an attempt to dismiss that point of view. Like Republicans questioning the patriotism of a Democrat, the right of a Korean to question the sacred cow has been advanced. Nothing new or unexpected. I get the same responses from other Buddhists, political thinkers, etc. when I question their root premises. I understand it can be painful to think outside the box.
I continue to question why the term “fetish” is used to describe interracial/international relationships by no cohort other than Asians. So far, no one wants to consider the racist undertones of such an assertion. All I get is “well, it’s true.” It may well be true, but without support, an argument is not worth its salt.
On the other hand, a reasonable approach might be to agree to disagree without being disagreeable, which is my particular approach. I welcome your disagreement.