More ‘Jun Ji-hyun is Chinese’ Controversy

by Robert Koehler on April 16, 2009

An Internet newspaper has sparked controversy by re-igniting questions about actress Jun Ji-hyun’s ethnicity, reports the Sports Chosun.

The Internet paper quoted an official from the Seoul Central Prosecutor’s Office (which has been investigating allegations that Jun’s management company cloned her cell phone) as saying that while he didn’t know whether Jun’s father, who was ethnically Chinese, maintained Taiwanese citizenship or not, but Jun herself — whose birth name is Wang Ji-hyeon — said she was ethnically Chinese, or hwagyo.

Jun’s management company not only slammed the report as baseless, it also threatened to sue the paper in question. The prosecutors, too, denied ever saying it.

Since both her father (Wang Jeong-cheo) and mother (Muk Chang-ae) have Chinese names, Jun has been dogged by questions concerning her ethnicity since her professional debut.

Jun’s management noted that if Jun really were Chinese, there’d be no reason to hide it.

BTW, does Jun look a bit odd with her hair pulled up?

{ 94 comments… read them below or add one }

1 Brian D April 16, 2009 at 11:40 pm

She always looks a bit odd.

2 JW April 16, 2009 at 11:41 pm

Dunno about 묵 , but I gotz plenty of relatives with the name 왕. Damn newspapers making a big deal out of nothing. 전지현 I LOVE YOU!!!!

3 WangKon936 April 17, 2009 at 12:12 am

왕/王 probably has very old Chinese origins like 2nd centry B.C. when Chinese historical documents record Koreans from Wiman Chosun sending envoys with the surnames of 왕 to the Han Dynasty court. The entire line of Koryo kings were 왕. There are not many 왕s because the founder of the Chosun Dynasty, 이성계, had many of them killed and the survivors went into hiding.

4 WangKon936 April 17, 2009 at 12:32 am

JW,

Me thinks you are one of the gyopo Christian kids who helped put this together, huh?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSloNnvB7Jk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk8C7LnAVdw&feature=related

5 The Western Confucian April 17, 2009 at 1:01 am

After I heard those rumors years ago, Gianna has never looked anything but Chinese to me. So what?

I once has my students do a presentation about their names. There was a Wang (왕/王) who told the story WangKon936 told above. I was surprised by how many of my Korean students traced their families back to China. It made me almost proud that my wife is a pure Korean surnamed Park (박 / 朴).

6 Jing April 17, 2009 at 1:22 am

Correct me if I am wrong, but aren’t the majority of Korean surnames of relatively recent vintage? I don’t recall where I heard this, but Korean surnames were adopted arbitrarily by peasantry who didn’t originally have surnames to begin with and that many of the illustrious family histories of today are in fact fabricated because they were not actual descendants.

7 t_song April 17, 2009 at 1:38 am

I remember being crushed when learning that Jun Ji-hyun was a hwagyo. But I didn’t know that this was a rumor — I had thought it was reality. I also heard Ji-Hyun’s dad owned a jajjangmyun restaurant in Incheon.

@ The Western Confucian

Pure Korean… 뭐야 … You sound Korean-Korean saying that. It’s pretty obvious that we’re all descendants of Genghis Khan anyways (I’m hoping my Song route can be traced to one of Khan’s 734 wives…haha)

8 WangKon936 April 17, 2009 at 1:39 am

# 6,

That’s probably true.

For my family, my uncle went to Korea to pick-up our geneology books and we trace our ancestory to Silla.

Although a lot of families have Chinese surnames, there has not been significant Chinese immigration to the peninsula since the collapse of the Han Chinese commandaries in the 4th century AD.

9 JW April 17, 2009 at 1:49 am

Dammit…no sound at werk. Those mofos better not be making fun of my love.

전지현 아이라뷰!!!!

10 WangKon936 April 17, 2009 at 2:31 am

# 7,

Lies. Blasphemous lies.

Just for expounding them you are evil and wicked, your bones will dry-up and crumble to dust and the angels shall weep for you…

11 Sagwamun April 17, 2009 at 3:15 am

Wow. And people say Americans are racist.

t_song– You were crushed? Why should who her ancestors were have any effect on how much you like her or her work?

And though it is associated with China, there are Japanese people named 王/Oh as well.

12 bumfromkorea April 17, 2009 at 3:39 am

So… am I missing something here? Why does everyone care if Jun Ji Hyun is ethnically Chinese? Or does it have to do with her citizenship and not her ancestry?

13 t_song April 17, 2009 at 4:54 am

Sometimes the truth hurts. Like I said, I was crushed–CRUSHED! to learn she was hwagyo. But then I’ve never know of a 왕 who wasn’t Chinese, but I guess WK is, as someone said, “pure” Korean.

14 WangKon936 April 17, 2009 at 4:54 am

Personally, I don’t care. I actually think it would be an economic plus if Ji Hyun was half Chinese or whatever. She’d be bigger in China and the Chinese diaspora (1.5 billion human beings). That’s a lot of yuan, HK dollars, Taiwanese dollars, Singaporean dollars and ringgits.

I was being sarcastic in # 10.

15 WangKon936 April 17, 2009 at 5:00 am

You know 전지현 in Hanja is 全智賢, for which the Mandarin pronounciation would be Quan Chih Xián… or Wang Chih Xián, if you prefer her birth name.

16 WangKon936 April 17, 2009 at 5:02 am

# 12,

Do you mean me or the historic Wang Geon?

17 t_song April 17, 2009 at 7:52 am

Of course I meant the venerable Wang Geon–whoever the fu*k he is.

18 squatch April 17, 2009 at 7:53 am

I don’t understand the big deal here. So what? Does it make her less attractive? It’s not like she’s a reptilian alien impostor from “V”.

19 WangKon936 April 17, 2009 at 8:13 am

But seriously t_song I’d call your evidence that Jun is a hwagyo hearsay. Is there anything more concrete? The Jun camp flatly denies the allegations and if they do, you need more than hearsay evidence to overturn the denials.

20 WangKon936 April 17, 2009 at 8:17 am

… and that’s how urban legends get started. It’s always not a direct source but it’s “I heard from somewhere that…”

21 dda April 17, 2009 at 8:20 am

the Mandarin pronounciation would be Quan Chih Xián… or Wang Chih Xián

Quán Zhì Xián / Wàng Zhì Xián, rather…

22 WangKon936 April 17, 2009 at 8:33 am

dda, quit showing off!

23 dda April 17, 2009 at 8:40 am

You’re the one trying, and failing. If you want to quote pinyin, do it properly…

24 Sonagi April 17, 2009 at 8:41 am

What is a “pure Korean”?

The sum of specificity shows Korean mtdna sequences are
40.6% Korean
21.9% Chinese
1.6% Ainu
17.4% Okinawan
18.5% Unidentified

source

This is only mitochondrial DNA, but nevertheless, proves that the notion of a 단일민족 has no scientific basis. If Jeon does have Chinese parents, it only means that her Chinese ancestors arrived in Korea later than other Koreans and probably passed down to her some Korean DNA.

25 Sonagi April 17, 2009 at 8:42 am

correction: …later than other Koreans’ Chinese ancestors…

26 JiMong April 17, 2009 at 8:54 am

Yes, who really cares if Jun Ji Hyun is ethnically Chinese? She is still one of hot actress to me and now playing as a Japanese Vampire with sailor moon school uniform!

27 WangKon936 April 17, 2009 at 9:28 am

“If you want to quote pinyin, do it properly…”

dda,

I never claimed I was a pinyin expert. However, I did mix Wade-Giles with pinyin to make the pronunciation easier to me. Sometimes I’ll do that with Revised Roman and McCune-Reischauer. I don’t follow perfect Romanization orthodoxy (nor I’m I the only one), sorry if that disappoints you.

My larger point being is that ALL Koreans with supposed “Korean” names also have Chinese names by default. Mine is 金京鎬.

I’ll even admit that my ability to read Hanja is pretty mediocre and my ability to perfectly pronounce Mandarin is nonexistent. All in all, not bad given my limitations.

I’d have to say that your limitations are in making any meaningful comments other than criticizing other people’s comments.

28 dogbertt April 17, 2009 at 10:06 am

Like I said, I was crushed–CRUSHED! to learn she was hwagyo.

Why did it crush you to learn she was hwagyo?

29 colontos April 17, 2009 at 10:20 am

Dogbertt’s question is my own: if she is ethnically Chinese, does that make her any less Korean? She was born in Korea (right?), speaks Korean perfectly, probably doesn’t speak Chinese (correct me if I’m wrong), dresses and acts like a Korean and is a symbol of Korea. Who cares where her parents or grandparents came from? Or if her folks came over from China 1,000 years later than everyone else’s?

30 JW April 17, 2009 at 10:59 am

Who cares where her parents or grandparents came from?

Uh, Koreans do? Apparently, alot of white republicans also…have you seen some of the racist signs going around at the recent “tea party” rallies?

Ugh. Natives have insecurity issues wherever you go.

31 colontos April 17, 2009 at 11:04 am

You win the irrelevancy prize with this post.

32 seouldout April 17, 2009 at 11:07 am

Why did it crush you to learn she was hwagyo?

1) Because the children he imagined he’d make w/ her wouldn’t be exclusively of the incredible race?

2) Because the kimchi he imagined she’d make for him would be tainted by an oily taste and texture?

3) Because the floor he imagined she’d clean for him would now be only Chinese clean rather than the spotlessly über hygienic Korean clean?

Others?

Bravo your runaway-train fantasy life!

33 eujin April 17, 2009 at 11:11 am

Sonagi, can you repost the source for that data, it isn’t working. The journal reference would be enough. Is it this one?

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0004210

34 yuna April 17, 2009 at 11:12 am

here is the
link

in migration, i think there is a stigma attached to a group of people who have come from a particular place at a particular time in history. (long long time ago) < (time of arrival hwagyo in korea) < (very recent)
and the particular group of people acquire a certain social standing/reputation etc.
it’s the same in zainichi koreans in japan.
although the ancestors are all mixed up, and there is hallyu, and japanese people discriminate less against a korean from korea (recently) there is a certain discriminatory 시각 that japanese look at the zainchi koreans (like the subject of that post yesterday about that old man who killed 2 yakuza members) which cause a lot of 일본 연예인 to hide it. it’s all about when.

35 seouldout April 17, 2009 at 11:16 am

Sonagi, always with the gems.

18.5% Unidentified

Has someone checked that against bear DNA?

Anyway, now the Koreans have a great excuse. “Whaddaya expect!? We’re only 81.5% human. Confirmed, mucka sucka.”

36 yuna April 17, 2009 at 11:22 am

pucca, that cute children’s character which has done rather well abroad is actually a korean-designed character which depicts a hwagyo girl in korea.

37 JW April 17, 2009 at 11:25 am

Well it’s a good thing to know Koreans aren’t *only* discriminatory towards 화교. We treat our refugee brothers and sisters from up north like shit too.

38 bumfromkorea April 17, 2009 at 11:29 am

Wait, I take that back. It would be a huge deal if Jun Ji Hyun is half-Chinese. Wouldn’t that make her Korea’s first successful 화교 domestic actress? That’s pretty historic.

39 Robert Koehler April 17, 2009 at 11:31 am

Apparently, alot of white republicans also…have you seen some of the racist signs going around at the recent “tea party” rallies?

Haven’t seen them yet… but I did see a CNN correspondent showing complete and utter contempt to protesters at one rally:

http://hotair.com/archives/2009/04/15/unreal-cnn-reporter-openly-contemptuous-of-tea-parties/

Bush the Nazi costumes, though, are apparently OK:

http://iusbvision.wordpress.com/2009/04/16/flashback-cnn-loved-protestors-who-dressed-bush-as-a-nazi-new-york-times-prints-multiple-stories-about-small-far-left-protests/

And people wonder why we racist, knuckle-dragging right-wing extremists end up watching FOX… when we and returning vets aren’t threatening national security, that is…

40 yuna April 17, 2009 at 11:32 am

here is that link again. this character has become rather popular in europe. makes me want to go and have jajangmyon now. it’s funny to learn that jajangmyun was a dish that resulted from a policy towards the hwagyo restaurant owners.
yum yum

41 t_song April 17, 2009 at 11:33 am

@bum
I had a friend whose mother was Korean and father was from Taiwan, and she was still called 화교–attending 화교 schools in Busan.

42 JW April 17, 2009 at 11:35 am
43 JW April 17, 2009 at 11:39 am

Bumfromkorea

No, 하희라 is 화교.

44 bumfromkorea April 17, 2009 at 11:43 am

I dunno Robert. I came across the “Tea Party” @ Phoenix, and there were some pretty fucked up signs that would make Strom Thurmond blush in his grave. But maybe a conservative protest against a black president in Arizona isn’t the best assessment of these protests in general…

45 bumfromkorea April 17, 2009 at 11:46 am

Okay… so even with the whole ‘pureblood’ thing considered, what’s the big deal? Even if she was half Chinese, she wasn’t even the first in history.

@t_song
huh?

46 Robert Koehler April 17, 2009 at 11:49 am

Robert, homey don’t play dat

The horror — a nutter at a protest. Thank God we never see such things at left wing protests. Now I fully understand how a reporter covering a protest in Chicago could be so outraged.

47 JW April 17, 2009 at 11:55 am

Per Matthew Yglesias

I mentioned this the other day, but one of the hallmarks of contemporary American conservatism is that while it’s no longer a white supremacist movement, it is a movement marked by a combination of tolerance for racism with massive oversensitivity about the idea that “PC” forces are stifling freedom.

Absolutely true. And this is why democrats are as happy as can be.

48 Robert Koehler April 17, 2009 at 11:59 am

Enjoy it while it lasts.

49 Jing April 17, 2009 at 12:07 pm

Actually, the RoK’s nationalities policies is, or was, extremely restrictive. Citizenship was based solely on patralineal descent from the minjok. This results in cases where you could be three quarters Korean and one quarter Chinese and still not be a citizen of Korea. In fact, did you know that ethnic Chinese Koreans are the largest holders of the F-2 Visa. Also in the realm of oddly enough, they are all Taiwanese (Republic of China) citizens.

As to why a Korean would want to hide (recent) ethnic Chinese ancestry, the answer is pretty obvious. Ever since the foundation of the RoK up until only the last decade or so, it has been de-facto government policy to suppress the ethnic Chinese population economically via a series of discriminatory laws. The Chinese in antebellum 20th century Korea did not enjoy the greatest reputation being seen by many as economic “parasites”. This was caused mainly by their economic niche as middlemen in the trade between Korea and China, which happened to be by far Korea’s largest trade partner up until the Korean war. Even Korea’s early nationalists and elite shared similar feelings, President Park being no exception, and wanted to prevent ethnic Chinese from being too prominent in their nascent economy.

Beginning in 1961, foreigners were forbidden to own any land, which resulted in the Chinese population being forced to sell off all their properties and businesses. Although this was later relaxed, they were still only allowed to own a tiny parcel of land and not enough to really expand. Just as critically, with South Korea’s state sponsored capitalist growth, banks would not provide credit to ethnic Chinese businesses putting them at a severe disadvantage compared to businesses run by Koreans. In fact, just about the only business the Chinese were allowed to operate would be restaurants. Not quite as lucrative a vocation as banking was for the Jews thanks to Church usury laws.

50 wjk, 검은 머리 외국인 April 17, 2009 at 12:20 pm

you’re a 金, and your uncle looked like Kim Jongil?

You’re probably related.

JW is right.

하희라 is a hwagyo.

So is 주현미.

Mook? Isn’t it 목?

Thank you, search.naver.com.

3 years ago, I could not do it.

I don’t hate hwagyos.
I do hate mainland Chinese.

There are plenty of dumb Koreans I can’t stand, too.

Today, some 40 ish Korean lady was telling an Indian doctor that ‘we have a great statue of Eisenhower in Korea’.

1/ it’s not a ‘great statue’.
2/ it’s MacArthur, not Eisenhower.

stupid people shouldn’t breath or breed.

another thing is, bumfromkorea is woefully unknowledged about Korea, in general.

another thing is, Wang gun and Lee Sunggyae are rumored to be Chinese immigrants. First of all, Wang gun’s father’s family was clearly outside of United Shilla’s territory, which did not include Pyong Yang and even claiming Kaesong under control was a stretch.

Good night.

51 WangKon936 April 17, 2009 at 1:28 pm

You’re probably related.

Nope. Totally different 本貫.

52 WangKon936 April 17, 2009 at 1:33 pm

The area north of the WALL that Unified Silla built (that you correctly said did not include Pyongyang) was the Korean-Manchurian Kingdom of Parhae.

I heard Yi Songgyae was a Yain…

53 seouldout April 17, 2009 at 2:01 pm

Eureka! I’ve deduced it! The 18.5% unidentified is Ferengi.

54 Nix April 17, 2009 at 2:22 pm

Ah yes, the tea party protests, full of honestly concerned citizens of all ages, and the typical nutjobs that are only liked by themselves.

The nutjobs are generally easy to tell, because they try to apply typical stereotypes to Obama. It’s like watching a retard trying to bang a square block in a round hole, growing red with rage and unable to fully understand.

The tea party protests are a symptom, stemming from becoming more and more indebted to china, failure of our penal system, failure of our education system, ever increasing restrictions on the second amendment, economy going to/in hell, and finally our halfassed tax code, and the perceived misuse of the taxes collected.

Of course, it’s much easier just to shout “TAXES EVIL”. It is then also easier to label anyone protesting as backword fuckups.

Obama didn’t cause all this trouble, but some of the things he’s feverishly trying to accomplish to try and fix the mess are the exact opposite of what some people think will work, and as a result some of them have finally awoken from their stupor and are taking action.

I have fairly developed opinions on many of the issues, but as far as economic matters go, I have no clue.

I’m an independent, didn’t go myself, but I know lots of independents went.

I hope they enjoy their new FBI file.

55 Nix April 17, 2009 at 2:31 pm

And as far as the ACTUAL topic is concerned she’s either hot, or not.

If she came knocking at my door, I wouldn’t question who the hell her great great great grandpa was. I’d take her on a walk in the park, treat her to dinner, have her home by 10 PM, and tell each other goodnight just enough times to make it awkward but cute.

56 WeikuBoy April 17, 2009 at 3:18 pm

“The horror — a nutter at a protest. Thank God we never see such things at left wing protests.”

That’s because it’s been a very long time since America has SEEN a “left-wing” protest. In early 2003 millions around the world protested the Iraq Cakewalk, but were ignored by U.S. corporate media. Then there were six years of caged-off Bush-Cheney “free-speech” zones inaccessible to media (not to mention illegal warrantless searches and seizures, indefinite detentions, etc.). And most recently there were the “preemptive” arrests of scores of U.S. citizens in St. Paul on the eve of the McCain-Palin convention, whose victims were held over a long Labor Day weekend but never charged.

Actually, come to think of it I DO remember Faux News characterizing the million or so concerned citizens who marched in New York in March 2003 against the invasion of Iraq over non-existent WMD as “a handful of left-wing professors and their radical-left students.” I GUESS that’s almost the same as CNN’s skeptical coverage of the Teabaggers for a Flat Tax this past week.

57 Siddhartha April 17, 2009 at 3:45 pm

Let’s suppose Jun is ethnic Chinese..why you people feel so crushed? Because you feel insulted and lost? I would like to hear…

58 WangKon936 April 17, 2009 at 3:47 pm

# 54,

Nah, Bajoran.

You know, passionate freedom fighters and religious nuts who have a chip on their shoulder over their former, would be conquerors. Sound familiar?

59 dry April 17, 2009 at 8:41 pm

#58: That’s too bad, stuck with Ferengi and you can claim to be morally superior…

60 wjk, 검은 머리 외국인 April 17, 2009 at 8:46 pm

house of windsor tried to hide the fact that they were cousins with the kaiser.

nothing’s new.

with all the prejudice the Koreans show, it’s nothing more exstravagant than what white people demonstrated in the civil war, world war 1,2, etc.

i will simply not take a lesson on race from you people. from a black person, maybe, but considering genocide here and there going on in sudan, supported by china, etc,

i am pretty sure Koreans have done no such thing in their entire history, and once they get over guarding, they are better than some finger pointing family from massachusetts.

61 wjk, 검은 머리 외국인 April 17, 2009 at 8:48 pm

we still can’t rule out that kim jongil may be a descendant of a slave family that worked for kim kh’s family and took the name kim when the Japanese invaded in pre 1500 or pre 1900.

62 wjk, 검은 머리 외국인 April 17, 2009 at 8:48 pm

slave girls often had babies with their masters.

63 wookinponub April 17, 2009 at 10:46 pm

Here’s one for the conservofreaks to foam at the mouth over…
Gun ownership is a liberal idea, and it will be the conservofreak toadies of the Trilateral Commission who, when told to do so, will come out and institute gun owner rights revocation policy.
Tea party patriots my ass.

64 WangKon936 April 17, 2009 at 11:03 pm

# 58,

Nah, don’t want to be Star Trek’s comic relieve race of aliens.

65 Nix April 18, 2009 at 1:23 am

@63

The basic human right of self defense is neither a liberal or conservative issue.

And honestly, the labels liberal and conservative have become far too warped to describe anyone anyway. You can make any issue you like fit into whatever your personal view of liberal and conservative is.

I know a guy who’s an outright socialist (and would probably be communist if it actually worked), and he’s just as pro-gun as any republican.

Here in the US, anti-gun positions are associated with “liberals”, because it is most often the far left that tries to restrict them using irrational and emotional arguments.

History has shown us that extremists on both sides have something to gain from restricting guns. It doesn’t matter WHO does it, we will be the losers.

Very off topic, but I am curious, what is gun law like in Korea?

66 Won Joon Choe April 18, 2009 at 2:09 am

#52,

Come on. I am sure you do know that many (I’ve been told an overwhelming majority by an esteemed Korean specialist) non-Korean scholars do not accept that Pohai was Korean, no?

67 WangKon936 April 18, 2009 at 2:26 am

I don’t want to get into anything too lengthy regarding Parhae. I will say that I’ve been in direct dialouge with the leading Western scholar on the matter (a German professor and a very nice guy) and he is in the “Korean” history department in his university.

Parhae was Parhae. It’s connect to Korean heritage, of course, tenuous, but Chinese it most certainly was not.

Lastly, if for whatever reason someone wanted to revive Parhae, the only descendants who have the geneology books to prove they were from the Parhae royal family are modern day Koreans of the Tae (太, 태) clan.

68 JW April 18, 2009 at 2:44 am

Hey that reminds me of 서태지’s song 발해를 꿈꾸며, which the below wiki article says was a song dedicated to the reunification of korea.

I never knew 서태지 was such a nationalist. I think I like him even more now.

http://ko.wikipedia.org/wiki/발해를_꿈꾸며

69 t_song April 18, 2009 at 4:33 am

A unified Korea would overtake Asia–no doubt.

70 dogbertt April 18, 2009 at 5:44 am

No. Doubt.

71 WangKon936 April 18, 2009 at 5:49 am

72 million people vs. 2.5 billion!

Damn, fat chances of a zerg rush… :(

72 DLBarch April 18, 2009 at 6:19 am

Re: 68, I remember when I was a newbie to Korea, still struggling with Korean, and first heard someone refer to 서태지, I thought it had something to do with cows and pigs!

Good times, good times!

DLB

73 JW April 18, 2009 at 6:42 am

Ahhhh, now that you mention cows and pigs, I fondly remember taking my weekly trip to the most fabulous 순대국 restaurant at inchon, 이화순대. I have yet to taste 순대국 around here that comes even remotely close.

74 squatch April 18, 2009 at 8:24 am

…and Koguryo was Koguryo. Chauvinistic desire to connect to supposedly strong fisted kingdoms long gone and their heritages vague?

75 WangKon936 April 18, 2009 at 8:30 am

No… Koguryo was Korean. The Koguryoans said so.

Why do you think Kwanggetto’s son, Jangsu set-up a monument that spent most of it’s time talking about how Paekje and Silla were the rightful, but wayward, tributary states? Koguryo understood Baekje to be born from it and they always coveted direct adminstrative control of Silla, which they had done briefly in the 4th century.

76 WangKon936 April 18, 2009 at 8:32 am

I mean… Pakeje and Silla were their rightful…

77 dogbertt April 18, 2009 at 8:40 am

WangKon, I’m impressed how much you’ve learned about Korean surnames in a short time.

78 SomeguyinKorea April 18, 2009 at 8:41 am

Controversy? It’s bigotry.

#67,75, etc.

That is in the past. The ancestry of modern Koreans is ethnically diverse.

79 dogbertt April 18, 2009 at 8:41 am

Of course, what’s so funny about the “I’m so crushed she’s hwagyo” character is that Jeon wouldn’t give him the time of day in the first place.

Somehow I doubt her ethnic background prevents her from getting any man she wants.

80 squatch April 18, 2009 at 8:42 am

You mean the memorial that says the Japanese crossed the sea and conquered those guys before Koguryo ousted them? Anyhoo, if your logic stands, most tributary nations surrounding the Middle Kingdom would be Han Chinese. Even blue-eyed Tocharians.

81 WangKon936 April 18, 2009 at 8:46 am

Are you talking about the “Tak” example?

Well, if it’s 탁 then it’s hanja should be 鐸, right? That would not be the same as 朴 or Bak/Pak/Park. Honestly, I’ve never heard of the surname 탁/鐸/Tak.

82 WangKon936 April 18, 2009 at 8:59 am

squatch,

Not the time. Not the place, and it’s Friday too.

I’ve discussed this subject on many occassions in cyberspace:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Goguryeo/Archive4#Goguryeo.2C_an_issue_of_Histography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Goguryeo/Archive5#New_Development

Btw… I don’t consider the Stele of Kwanggetto as literal history. It’s a Koguryo propaganda monolith. However, even propaganda can tell us something meaningful. It can tell us what government at least believed it its eyes and its point of view. Koguryo’s point of view was that they were the rightful masters of the peninsula and that Baekje and Silla were inferior kingdoms and needed to bow down to them. The Stele does not make the same claims for China or the Japanese islands.

83 abcdefg April 18, 2009 at 9:38 am

If JJH were, say, a Nobel Laureate, and not just a sometimes sassy movie star, and she turned out to be ethnically Chinese, would you guys here still not know the reason for why any Korean would feel “crushed” by her not being ethnically Korean?

It’s pretty obvious. Pride in a celeb is conditional on relatedness. A basic connection people have with each other are their genes. That’s all there is to it. JJH is a part of the home team. To say she’s not Korean in the all-important ethnic sense is to say she’s been scoring points for another people.

That’s the aZn mIndSeT. It’s prevalent everywhere among Asians, not just Koreans.

I only like two films by JJH anyway, My Sassy Girl and Il Mare. I think I’ll need to watch Il Mare again. Such a cozy, visually ambient film.

84 Sonagi April 18, 2009 at 10:06 am

Pride in a celeb is conditional on relatedness. A basic connection people have with each other are their genes. That’s all there is to it. JJH is a part of the home team. To say she’s not Korean in the all-important ethnic sense is to say she’s been scoring points for another people.

That’s the aZn mIndSeT. It’s prevalent everywhere among Asians, not just Koreans.

You are correct that Asians feel pride in the success of someone from the same ethnic background. This gene-based pride is unscientific, of course, since DNA mapping has shown that we’re all interrelated to each other and have some unrecognized ancestors in our family trees.

People in multiethnic countries feel pride, too, when a fellow citizen or team of citizens achieves success or recognition internationally. The logic behind such pride is these high achievers came not from the same gene pool but from the same society.

85 Granfalloon April 18, 2009 at 10:07 am

I have it on pretty good authority that, according to mitochondrial DNA, Jun Ji-Hyun is actually part Cylon.

As are we all.

86 Robert Koehler April 18, 2009 at 10:11 am

JW — you haven’t had sundae until you’ve been to Yecheon.

87 JW April 18, 2009 at 10:35 am

Robert, your word is as good as any. I really miss being able to get an awesome pot of 국밥 for around 5 bux.

88 SomeguyinKorea April 19, 2009 at 8:23 am

#79,

So true.

I recently saw on TV some awkward pimple-faced Korean teen boys professing rather energetically their undying love for Kim Yuna…I turned and told my wife, “No wonder she rarely comes to Korea.”

89 Sagwamun April 19, 2009 at 3:19 pm

WJK-

That you say you “hate mainland Chinese” and that you might take a lesson on race “from a black person” shows you’re completely missing the point.

Personal experience influences how open-minded and aware of their own prejudices someone is much more than their racial background.

You should judge everyone’s beliefs on their own merits without regard for what one of their distant ancestors might have done to another of their distant ancestors.

How do you even know I (or the other people posting here) are white?

Yes, there are racist assholes everywhere. But this topic is about a vicious rumor that is causing a large number of people to judge this actress based on her ancestors rather than her work. And that’s tragic and wrong.

Do you deny that?

90 Sagwamun April 19, 2009 at 3:26 pm

#83:

Of course I understand why t_song is “crushed.” I just hope he examines why, and hopefully realizes that nothing has changed. She is still the same actress, her movies still just as funny, he can still be proud of being a citizen of the country that produced her and her work.

Nations are a relatively recent concept, and conflicts between them have caused more deaths more efficiently than any other way of organizing human societies in history. National pride can be dangerous, especially when it’s conditioned on ethnicity.

And how do you think this makes Jun Ji-hyun feel? For her fans to be “disappointed” and turn their backs on her because of something she has no control over?

91 WangKon936 April 21, 2009 at 1:47 am

I agree w/#83. If she was a professor writing an article, gyopos would care less.

92 t_song April 21, 2009 at 2:15 am

Um, at #90, I think #83 summed it up pretty well for me. Being a Korean-American, I obviously have conflicted views on this, as I feel like my American side would be proud of an “American” accomplishment of any ethnicity or background. For instance, at the Olympics, I could be happy for a black, white, Hispanic athlete, whomever. I have that social connection.

But as for the “Korean” side of things…well, as #83 put it quite well, I mean, there is something to be said about sharing the same ethnicity. I don’t know Sagwa if you’re a gyopo or not, but I’m sure you can try to understand the conflict here. And if you can’t, try to think about the history of just china-korea-japan, and why it might be a bit, hmmm, “crushing” should JJH be a hwagyo and not korean. I couldn’t really communicate well my thoughts before, as it was just an honest feeling I had when I heard JJH was a hwagyo (i was still in korea at that time), but i think others sort of helped me realized my thoughts.

93 t_song April 21, 2009 at 2:16 am

Oh, in paragraph one, not “social.” I meant “societal.”

94 WangKon936 April 21, 2009 at 2:33 am

I’d be one to admit that Korean’s acceptance of people it perceives as anything less that what they currently define as “Korean” is rather backwards and atrocious from a contemporary Western perspective.

Just look at Lee Yu Jin:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/a/2004/08/13/MNGHB86BT01.DTL

However, I think every society grapples with this at some point, America being no different then anyone else:

http://www.nytimes.com/1999/08/15/arts/television-radio-hollywood-s-first-black-goddess-and-casualty.html?sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all

http://archive.sensesofcinema.com/contents/08/49/illusions-julie-dash.html

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