The Santa Ana police shot to death 37-year-old Susie Young Kim after a 30-minute car chase through several cities. The Santa Ana police had tried to pull Kim over at around 12:30 AM on suspicion of driving under the influence, but she continued driving for a few blocks before entering the freeway and reaching speeds of 110 mph. After exiting the freeway, police attempted to stop Kim with a PIT maneuver, causing her vehicle to spin out. She then rammed two police cruisers and took off again before being shot. Upon reaching Kim’s vehicle, the police found her 13-month-old daughter uninjured in the backseat. Some police officers involved in the pursuit had radioed that there was a child safety seat in the car, but it is not clear if that transmission was heard by other officers.
A Korean version of the story is here. The KBS story notes that Kim eluded police for 30 minutes but does not give details about the chase. The handful of comments following the Naver posting are, not surprisingly, critical of the shooting. Some commenters remark that police in the US overreact while others wonder if Kim would have been shot if she were white.
Commenters reacting to an LA Times blog post on the story were more varied in their reactions: a majority thought the shooting was justified but others disagreed. Video footage of officers removing the child from the car can be seen at KTLA News. The story was picked up by Chinese portal Sina, which unlike KBS, provided complete details about the incident.
Update: The Joongang Ilbo has published a complete account of the incident, and its comment section is more balanced. The comments receiving the highest net recommendations fault the woman for driving recklessly and endangering herself, her child, and others.
{ 58 comments… read them below or add one }
Count me as not surprised. Americans have chosen a militarized police force since the ’80s. This is what militarized police forces do. The number of people who support it far outnumber those opposed.
Are you trawling the internet for female Korean driver stories Sonagi?
please refrain from ‘lessons about race’. How dare you comment about race, given your background.
“would the cops have shot this person, if this person wasn’t black?”
that question is an everyday question in all US metropolitan cities.
what do you think Rodney King was about?
cops are fat asses with glocks. They should be reissued revolvers if they patrol in a suburb like Santa Ana.
empty the clip is the rule, because they are bad shooters to begin with, and they’re scared like shit most of the time. Bulging abdomens.
doesn’t happen in some smaller US states, but in bigger US states, when they pull you over, they got their right hand on their glock, ask you to open the trunk to check for marijuana. This happens even if the driver is a 30 ish mother with 3 school children in the back seat. In front of a school, 3pm, same shit.
all said, this gyopo was a complete idiot. LA gyopos have a long tail with DUI. When they’re drunk, they forget they’re not in Seoul anymore. There’s no junchul, bus, no taxi to live 50 miles away from colored people.
not too long, ago a Californian gyopo wielding a crow bar got empty clipped by 2 glocks, from two Californian police officers, in broad day light, in front of a liquor store. Precise shooting.
About 8 years ago a gyopo in SoCal was high on coke and tried to ram his SUV into policemen who had him cornered in a mall parking lot. The cops shot him dead. I thought that was justified because a car can be used as a deadly weapon and cops have to defend themselves and others. This is a similar situation in my book. What was the mother (?) thinking (assuming she was thinking at all)?
Santa Ana is a rough place. It’s the Compton of Orange County.
wjk, that happened in La Habra, a handful of miles away from me. That, in my book, was less justified because it didn’t seem apparent if he was threatening with the crowbar or just intimidating. It wasn’t precise shooting either because they pumped 11 caps into the UCLA grad. I wish the cops had a stun gun instead. It’s not like the guy was a hardened criminal or anything. He didn’t deserve to die for breaking a few windows w/a crowbar.
For the more visually inclined.
http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local/orange_county&id=6754378
It’s hard to imagine what this woman was thinking, but if she was able to manage 110 mph on the freeway, then she couldn’t have been driving under much influence.
Jeffery Hodges
* * *
My 2 cents:
The rule seems simple enough. Kill those who would kill you or others. I don’t see how a kid with a crowbar is going to kill. Why shoot him in the head? Why not shoot him in the legs or something? Shoot off a warning shot and shoot only if charged upon? Do we save tax payer money by firing lethal bullets? Why couldn’t police taze instead? Or, in the present case, blow out a tire?
If a person is stupid enough to place himself in a conflict against cops, do we dismiss and think good riddance? Maybe those in such situations were expecting to get tazed. Not shot to death.
Police shoot to kill because it is easy and convenient.
The lesson I learn today and pass on to all the kids is: Don’t fuck with cops. Even if you have only plastic nunchucks or a Nerf ball styrofoam bat, don’t fuck with the police.
I agree with you, abcdefg, but I think you’re over-simplifying. Shooting someone in the leg looks pretty easy when they do it on TV, but it’s actually quite difficult in a real combat situation. Shooting out the tire of a moving vehicle, when you’re shooting from a moving vehicle, is damn near impossible.
Now, I don’t be trustin’ me no po-po, but they are all too often put into situations where they must make extremely difficult judgment calls in a fraction of a second. The slightest misjudgment on their part results in an unjustified death. These guys are only human.
The police may have shot at the tires but missed. This woman managed elude a phalanx of police vehicles and smash her way out of a PIT maneuver, so she was obviously not an easy target. A kid with a crowbar isn’t likely to kill but a woman behind the wheel of a car traveling at high speeds is.
Fears of excessive use of force are well-founded. A few months ago, the Washington Post Sunday magazine profiled the mayor of Berwyn Heights, Maryland, whose home was ransacked last year by Prince George’s County police after drug dealers used his address to mail themselves packages, which they retrieved while the mayor and his wife were at work. The police knew that local dealers were using this MO, yet they broke in the doors, threw him and his wife on the floor, shot their dogs, and tore up the house. A Berwyn Heights police officer sat in the living room during the raid to make sure the Prince George’s police didn’t shoot the Berwyn Heights mayor or his wife “in self-defense.” It was telling that this police officer didn’t trust other police officers, even when dealing with a city mayor. The couple are now vocal advocates of citizens’ rights during home invasions by the police.
i’m going to refer to Sonagi from now on as,
ethnic whitey.
ethnic whitey
ethnic whitey
ethnic whitey
ethnic whitey.
ethnic whitey Sonagi blogs about Korea, to troll about and pass on about her thoughts on how race relations ought to be. Furthermore, she troll-blogs about Korean Chinese relations to stir about thoughts about how the Chinese condescendingly treat Korea in their greater plans of empire building in East Asia. Ethnic whitey Sonagi wants everyone to pay more taxes. She troll blogs about how everyone ought to pay more taxes and eat grass fed animals and don’t eat grains, and eat more grass ourselves, in order to stay as thin and pale as humanly possible. Ethinic whitey Sonagi likes to teach us English most of the time, but also throws in some Korean and Chinese lessons here adn there as well.
Thank heavens for ethnic whitey Sonagi.
Wendy us forever. We love ethnic whitey Sonagi.
I’m almost starting to like you, wjk. I sure hope you find time to stop by after you migrate south.
Not to mention after the Oakland shooting, I’m sure the po-po, so to speak, aren’t taking chances.
Hey everybody: try reading wjk’s above rant with a hip-hop beat in your head, and imagine Eminem’s voice. It’s awesome.
#11,
‘Ethnic Korean’ hardly a derogatory term. ‘Whitey’, on the other hand, is.
However, I find it odd that the term would be used. We never hear about ethnic Germans, ethnic Scots, or ethnic Irish, for example.
#14,
That’s eerie.
I used the term “ethnic Korean” because she was identified as a 한인 in the KBS/Naver story.
By reading all the post, none of us are law enforcement, have been in the military, or paramilitary organizations. The loss of life is tragic in any event. The question is, “What would you do in a situation like this?”
#14,
That would be just gilding the lily, don’t you think? Aren’t WJK’s posts entertainment and enlightenment enough?
OTOH, to keep it with the minjok, I did start thinking about your proposition and here’s my own small effort to start
Kickin’ it in Gumcheon with WJK,
His Precious is clean ’cause he don’t lay
Per “Sonagi”s observation, the Prince Georges County Police department has a long history of civil abuses and is a police department in name only. Otherwise, they employ professional gang-bangers anyway they see fit.
I seriously wonder why the DOJ would want to increase the power of local PDs to handle investigations of alleged terrorism when too many already have a problem handling their civic duty.
Three shots, a witness heard. So, at least one of shots would be directly targeted at her even they knew there was a child safety seat in the car. The incident could only be blamed on the victim as it is police business, just like a teaser gun murder case in Vancouver int’l airport by local RCMP
Either police training has taken some deep cuts or they really love shootin’ minorities. Or both.
So what! You post on yer blog cuz she is Korean. What’s the point? This kinda shit happens all the time. Poor Korean… It’s a USA conspiracy to you I guess???? Get real, ok…
I can’t believe some of the comments here. This woman was a dangerous menace to law abiding members of the public and her own daughter. She was using her car as a deadly weapon. And, some of you have the gall to blame the police for her the choice she forced them to make to keep themselves, the public, and her child safe.
Why was this even posted? Just because of the ludicrous Korean connection? Why wasn’t this woman’s heritage pointed out in this senseless death: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/301 What’s up with that? And, hell, it can even be indirectly blamed on Japan as well.
As for a kid with a crowbar not being able to kill, tell that to the man who died after “only” being punched last week at Angels’ stadium after the game.
John from Daejeon
Damn wonky link: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30136788/
#23,
Well…She was driving a Toyota.
This looks like excessive use of force regardless of ethnicity. The car was immobile, at that point she had no weapon. The cop who fired was probably hyped up from the chase and let his emotions take over. Too bad for that little girl.
No, it was a Honda
#17,
It wasn’t aimed at your specific use of the term but rather the general use of it.
A woman who drives at 1AM is no race of mine.
Especially with a baby.
She is out of her mind.
No wonder she fought police.
“Ethnic” is correct. But, she does not share “Korean values”. She is no Korean.
when Sonagi turned the other cheek,
I became ashamed of being a bad Christian.
Hoppy Holiday.
Baduk, she is 100% Korean.
I turn both cheeks whenever I see your username at the top of a post.
Re John’s
You, sir, represent exactly the type of person who has stolen my beloved country. Please never suggest that the police, in a case like this and many others, are protecting me. I am the public, and I am eager to do without all the governmental “protection” that is being provided to me.
I would be eager to hear your version of how the police firing bullets into the car kept “her child safe.” Only in an alternate universe would that be considered anything other than dangerous.
#23)
…or the newspaper vendor who died during the G20 protests after being smacked for no reason by an English riot cop …then again he had his back turned and was walking home.
Imbeciles, of course a crowbar can kill. One can do mass amounts of damage with one. But I’m referring to the case of Michael Cho, a Korean guy who is said to have walked around with a limp, surrounded by 2 cops in an open space, walking calmly at least 20 feet away from either cop. A crowbar can’t kill what it can’t reach.
The question is why didn’t cops subdue him in another way? Why shoot to kill?
A page about the incident:
http://news.newamericamedia.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=ad58d8b8031a47854d3676200f5c5be5
I have no heart for people who can’t comprehend that there’s something wrong with the above scenario. If your children are ever slain by a cop for something they should have been tazed for, I will not be giving my condolences.
you know there was a college student who was tasered by college police, and there was an outcry over the incident for tasering the student.
he was saying very terrorist like anti-american things in the process too.
what did they want? Club him? That club is good enough to smash bones.
my opinion is, when the cop gets scared he usually fires his gun.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5g7zlJx9u2E
on the other hand, the US military showdown with the somali pirates the captain safely out.
two somali pirates shot dead.
i heard that obama himself gave the permission to fire if it was needed.
the motto is, don’t mess with the US authorities, whether you are a crazy woman driver, somali pirates or dictator of a nation, because they don’t think very hard before making that decision. unless you possess some missiles and warheads.
the first sentence misses a “got”
What in god’s holy name was that wjk? Was that really a UCLA student or some motherfucker high on crack who happened to stop by the UCLA library to look at girls?
God almighty. There’s nothing you can do about this except to force people — starting with kids in middle school — to repeat ” i will not fuck the da police, ever” at least 50 times, EVERY FUCKIN YEAR.
At least 100 times, if you’re minority, but 500 times, if you’re black.
Better they should just learn to be law-abiding citizens.
yep dogbertt, but i have been in situations where i was law abiding but when a US cop or a border patrol or immigration officer who seem to have the IQ of a stuck tape recorder starts barking the horrible nasal toned “maam i tole’ ya to keep your hands where i can see them” “maam please step away from your bag” and treating you like a criminal and barking at you, you panic, and law-abiding citizen bit just doesn’t even figure in your head where you can only see white lights.
I really don’t think enough people know that you keep your mouth shut — not say a goddamn word — and do as you’re told — regardless of what you believe the law is or isn’t. Not enough people know this, not enough education about it, and I don’t get why, because quite obviously uneducated or panicked behavior can cost your life if you’re in the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong cop.
@yuna
That’s why I’m extra careful not to get too much of a tan here (virtually impossible during summer, but…). I was biking through the tiny city of Guadalupe (it’s like 90% hispanic town in the middle of Tempe), and a Maricopa County deputy told me to stop from his patrol car. I shit you not, the deputy’s eyes widen when he sees my face, and the first thing the guy say to me is “You’re not Mexican.” I didn’t know whether I wanted to laugh at his face or be horrified, but I just said, “No sir, I’m not.” After a rather awkward check on my ID, I was on my way.
Lessons learned:
1. Don’t bike through a Hispanic-heavy community in Arizona.
2. Try not to get a tan.
3. Fucked up things cops do around/to you turn into a pretty good anecdote if you just cooperate.
that’s funny.
one knows that the cop from harold and kumar is not a comedy of *exaggeration* as soon as one sets foot in that funny land.
@Yuna:
US police officers must bark orders like “Keep your hands on the steering wheel” because some of our criminals are better armed than the police. They can’t assume you’re harmless because you’re Asian. Whiteys get barked at, too.
And did you really compare the shooting of a driver with the shootings of armed pirates? Perhaps the US should have taken a play from Korea’s book and forked over $20 million in ransom to fund future kidnappings and other acts of violence.
Would somebody please fill me in on what I may be missing here?
Is anyone actually questioning the appropriateness of the officers’ actions here, and if so on what possible basis?
Are some people suggesting that her ethnicity somehow exempts her from the rules that apply to everyone else on the road?
아이고, Sonagi씨. Although compelling, this story really has nothing to do with Korea and everything to do with the cancer of violence at the heart of the United States of America. It’s just the latest in an endless stream of rampage we read about daily in US news. Maybe the woman had just lost the spelling bee and felt she needed to take some other souls with her on her way out. I’m sure you can relate to that one.
Try this concept:
She forfeited her Korean heritage when she fled a police stop with an infant in the backseat.
sonagi, did i say it’s because i was asian? you don’t have to tell me the reason, i know – but chicken or egg, the US police, authorities, *are* heavy handed. it should be on every guidebook, that you comply like a robot with the US authorities and desist from trying to have normal human conversations, because that will be taken as some sort of contempt or provocation.
i didn’t condemn the shooting of the pirates. i think it was justified, but nonetheless it adds to my point, that you just don’t try and mess with the US authorities because they “mean business”.
Many Korean commenters on the Joongang story thread would agree with you. They observed that Koreans have little respect for their police and push them around freely.
“the US police, authorities, *are* heavy handed.”
Sorry, the generalization is incorrect. People who do not pose a public danger are certainly not shot. Being authorized to use force when absolutely necessary is not “heavy handed” but even handed.
In some nations, you can be shot for just looking at an authority the wrong way. By contrast, the rule of law prevails in the U.S. and the law is enforced as best fits the situation. If an individual officer’s judgement in a particular situation is questioned, it will be duly investigated and reviewed.
The whole drill: Roll down your window. Open the door with your right hand. Get out of the car. Lie down on the ground. On your stomach. With your palms up. I said with your palms up.
In many countries in the world, that whole drill would not be tolerated. It is tolerated in countries with sheep-like citizens.
Well, to be fair, there are way too many guns & people who’d use it against cops in US for that procedure to not make sense. I can understand why cops in US have to be harsh by international standard, and I think it’s pretty hard to keep that balance between keeping cops safe during work and not turning into NKVD. Having known some of them personally (my old church youth group leader was a cop for one… then he got recruited to the FBI), I have great respect for them.
Of course, anything I have said in the paragraph above does not apply to the Maricopa County Sheriff’s Office. They can go straight to hell.
http://www.donga.com/fbin/output?n=200904140186&top20=1
Another one. This time a mentally unstable korean american male in his 20s, was handcuffed, and yet they shot him dead anyway. Apparently, his parents are the ones who called in the police after the kid started behaving weird.
http://www.news10.net/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=57696&provider=top
English article, but this one doesn’t say specifically that the guy was handcuffed before being shot.
None of the other US media reports available stated that he’d been handcuffed, either. The most detailed coverage is in this Sacramento news station video clip, which includes an interview with the man’s brother. With a close family member under medication for a mental illness, I feel sympathy for Joseph Han’s family.
I’ve driven at ~115 MPH. The most ideal time to do that on long deserted stretches of straight-aways on the interstate in Southern states at three or four in the morning. A late model Mercedes-Benz was following me for about 2 hours, mimicking every single lane change maneuver I made. It was somewhat disconcerting.
“Is anyone actually questioning the appropriateness of the officers’ actions here, and if so on what possible basis?”
Yes. On the basis that it was a bad call.
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