It’s a wonderful spring day out there. Hope you enjoy it.
Open Thread #90
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Next post: North Koreans Starving: WaPo
Korea… in Blog Format
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{ 135 comments… read them below or add one }
First.
Lifted from Twofish’s Blog
And here is Linkd’s finance geek link of the day.
Well, whaddaya know? This is some raw text from Hana Financial Group. Quite the change from something I had from Woori a couple years ago, stating that one of their CSR activities was digging up a species of Japanese cherry tree on Namsan and replacing it with a native Korean variety.
“다문화가정 문제 해결을 위한 다문화가정 지원활동
하나금융그룹은 국내 외국인 거주민 90만 시대를 맞아 다문화 사회의 안정적 정착과 이를 위한 문제 해결을 지원하기 위한 심층 연구를 통해 전문적이고 다양한 활동을 지원하고 있습니다. 중점 사업으로 다문화가정 자녀들을 지원하기 위해 이중 문화와 언어를 교육하는 ‘하나 Kids Of Asia’ 프로그램과 부모 나라의 언어와 문화를 자연스럽게 배울 수 있도록 4만 5000권의 베트남어와 한국어가 병기된 도서 제작 배포 사업, 다문화 가정 인식 개선을 위한 공익광고 등을 제작, 활용하는 등 다문화 가정 문제 해결에 있어 선두적인 문제 인식과 해결방식을 제시하며 기여하고 있습니다.
Supporting multicultural families in order to resolve issues of multicultural families
There are 0.9 million foreign residents living in Korea. HFG is engaged in professional and various activities in helping multicultural society taking a firm root in our society and resolving issues to this end through extensive research. HFG put emphasis on the following projects; ‘Hana Kids Of Asia’ program helps children from multicultural families learn both Korea and their local cultures and languages. It also publishes and distributes books of 45,000 copies written in both Vietnamese and Korean with the aim of helping children learn cultures and languages of their parents’ country in a natural manner. Further, it produces public advertisements on improving people’s perception on multicultural families. Like this, HFG is committed to taking a leading role in recognizing problems and suggesting solutions in resolving issues related to multicultural families.”
It looks nice outside, but it’s not spring yet. It’s spring when the motorcycle doesn’t require the winter gloves or windbreaker pants at 1pm.
Open request to “Ask the Korean”: could you change your blog to Wordpress? I don’t like Blogspot.
More map evidence that “Usando” (于山島 – 우산도) was not the old Korean name for Dokdo, as many Koreans claim.
“Later 1700s – ‘Aguk Chongdo’ (我國摠圖 – 아국총도)”
On an unrelated note, I think small farming communities will make a comeback in the United States. Get your five to ten acres while you can. People may once again need to start growing their own food to feed their families.
I regretted my choice to go out in a light windbreaker today.
I also really regret checking in on the Open Thread, seeing as how Gerry Bevers is back onto the Dokdo thing. Shit, shit, shit. Really, I think a boycott is in order. Nobody take the bait!
Since this is an Open Thread, I’d like to mention how impressed I am by Darius Rucker’s talent. The guy can pull off strong performances in at least three (maybe we haven’t seen all he can do) genres of American popular music — he’s hit it big as the frontman for alt-pop Hootie & the Blowfish, and now as a Billboard chart-topping country singer. In between, Rucker released an underappreciated (i.e., it flopped) R&B album that I really enjoyed.
Here he is interviewed on NPR, and then as a bonus he plays a few of his new country songs in the studio.
Here’s Exodus and This is My World from the failed R&B album.
Brendon, whenever Gerry takes a dump, somebody has to break out the sawdust and do the cleaning up. It’s a dirty job let me tell ya!!
Gerry, let’s deal with your incorrect interpretations that you’ve done so far.
First you’ve consistently stated Usando is Ulleungdo’s Jukdo Islet based on Chosun maps.
Almost all Chosun maps of Ulleungdo are based on Bak Seok Chang’s maps made in 1711
You can see the map below.
http://dokdo-takeshima.com/dokdo-usando-maps.html
When we analyse the map further we find serious errors in jumping to the conclusions you’ve made, however you have failed to address these errors I’ve pointed out before. The island to right of the map is labeled “所謂于山島“ This means “So-Called Usando” meaning when Bak labelled this map he was making an assumption.
However analysing the area around this island we find some problems with saying this island is Ulleungdo’s Jukdo Islet.
Here is the area in quesiton.
http://www.dokdo-takeshima.com.....6-east.jpg
Note to the North of this island can be read “所謂佇田洞“ on Ulleungdo’s shore. This is Naesujeon Beach or Jeojeong Dong 저전포 with is in reality about 3kms South of Jukdo Islet.
On the shore we have more hints as to the location of this island you say is Jukdo.
The character “東“ or East shows this island is due East of 中峯 Seongin Mountain on Ulleungdo this is way off. Also on shore can be seen the locaton of the Japanese boathouse “倭船倉可居” and where Bak Seok Chang left his stone marker “刻石立標”. Both of these locations (濱田浦 Hamada) and where Bak left his stone marker can be confirmed as Dodong Harbour.
What does this mean? It means this island was drawn 4kms South of the correct location in front of Dodong Harbour. Jukdo Island isn’t even visible from Dodong Harbour Gerry Bevers. It would be impossible to perceive Jukdo in this location while on site. I know, I’ve been to Ulleungdo many times.
This island you say is Ulleungdo’s Jukdo Islet was not drawn from an on site survey but rather appended on the map from other sources heresay or from the Ulleungdo Sa-Jeok written in 1694. This is because the phrase “海長竹田” is found in both records regarding this island.
Bak’s Seok Chang’s map and most subsequent copies have five islands to the South which simply don’t exist drawn on them. From this we know all the aforementioned maps were influenced by one man’s territorial perceptions, Bak Seok Chang’s in 1711.
Gerry, how many articles have been posted on your propaganda site? Of these, which page should we consider proof of Japan’s historical title over Dokdo. I can’t seem to find anything…..
Gerry, by looking at your posts you should have a lot of “fertilizer” for the fields of your farm. You’re also quite gifted at spreading it.
Brendon,
Just as I suspected, another Brendon Carr “anti-Dokdo-post” rant. Why does he continue to rant on the same thing over and over. Shit! Shit! Shit!
Brendon, I think, maybe, you should stay off the “Open Thread” since you seem opposed to open-topic discussion. Last week you said the same thing about not wanting to read “Dokdo” posts, but others on the thread said they wanted to read them and hounded me for a couple of days to post on the topic.
Not everyone feels the same way Brendon Carr feels. For example, I have no interest, whatsoever, in Darius Rucker’s talent and wish that you would stop posting about him, but I am not going to call for a boycott. I will just read the first line of your posts to determine if it is something I am interested in and move on if it is not. You should do the same or avoid my posts all together.
Anyway, regardless of what you may write, I have a feeling that you really are interested in my Dokdo posts and are probably even collecting them in a special “Gerry’s Dokdo Posts” directory on your computer. I think you complain about them to try to draw attention them and to encourage me and others to post more on the subject. I had heard about reverse psychology, but didn’t realize how well it works. Now I know why you make the big bucks.
I notice that another “English Village” is going up in Gwanack-gu, close to Seoul National University and that, instead of being run by the gu office, they are going to let a hakwon with a religious background run it (Seventh-Day Adventists).
Talk about letting the foxes guard the henhouse, that is really a bad ideal, in principle. I really wonder what their thinking is for doing such a thing. Does all of Korean Government defer to the hakwon industry for their educational policies and administration!?
Hey Brendon, that song “this is my world” is pretty frikken awesome. Off da hook, fo shizzle.
Thanks
“Does all of Korean Government defer to the hakwon industry for their educational policies and administration!?”
Possibly. It is nothing short of obscene.
I think the English Villages may simply be viewed as an embezzlement vehicle by public officials interested in collecting kickbacks on the construction.
I like Darius Rucker. And I like reading about Dokdo, though I suspect my affinity is far more about schadenfreude than intellectual engagement. I say, keep it up on both fronts. I don’t watch TV, so I need this.
As long as I’m typing:
WATCH “WATCHMEN”!
Frogmouth (Steve Barber),
First, the phrase “so-called” (所謂 – 소위) does not “assumption,” as you claim. It means that “Usando” was the name most commonly used for that island.
Second, even Korean scholars, including the director of the Dokdo Museum, have acknowledged that the “Usando” on the map was referring to Ulleungdo’s neighboring island of Jukdo. Here is what the Director of the Dokdo Museum said:
Dokdo Museum Director Lee Seung-jin said, “After confirming the three old maps, it is obvious to anyone that they showed Jukdo, not Dokdo; and even in our country’s academic circles, it is judged to be Jukdo. By not showing the complete map and by showing only an enlarged section, they are trying to cover up their forced claims.”
Anyone, but Frogmouth. Here is the link to the Korean article:
“독도박물관장 ‘죽도일뿐’”
Third, if it was not Ulleungdo’s neighboring island of Jukdo, then what island was it? It could not have been Dokdo (Liancourt Rocks), not only because of its location, but because the writing on the island says that it had “fields of haejang bamboo” (海長竹田 – 해장죽전). Bamboo cannot grow on Dokdo, much less “haejang” bamboo, because there was not enough soil there. Haejang bamboo can grow up to six meters tall.
Fourth, none of the islands were drawn to scale, so everything was drawn to get a general location not a precise one.
Fifth, we know it was drawn from an on-site survey because there was a stone marker left on Ulleungdo to prove it. You can see the marker HERE. The reason the inspector in 1694 and the inspector in 1711 both said that Usando had “haejang bamboo” on it was because they both looked at the same island and saw the same thing.
Sixth, there are rocks off the south shore of Ulleungdo, including two rocks right off “Seal Point,” which was on the very southern tip of Ulleungdo. However, it is also possible that some inspectors draw their maps upside down, just as the inspector who draw the Samcheok Museum map did.
If you look at the Samcheok Museum map HERE, you will notice that the islands that are supposed to be off the north shore of Ulleungdo are, instead, off the southern shore. The main island, however, was drawn correctly; it was only the surrounding islands and the directions that were drawn in the wrong places. That suggests that he drew the main island first, and then the surrounding islands and directions were drawn later. We know the inspector actually went to Ulleungdo because he brought back bamboo, sea lion skins, and other products from there, as the product list on the map indicates. He would have had to submit those products to government authorities, who probably required them to ensure that inspectors actually went to Ulleungdo.
Frogmouth, I have not counted the number of posts on my site, but you are free to do so.
Brendon (#7),
Telling someone like Frogmouth not to take the Dokdo bait is like telling a fly not to land on your mash potatoes.
Thank god for scroll wheels.
For my part, I once penned a couple of ridicules of Gerry’s obsession. Then, one day it was announced that “Korea” had decided to throw a completely innocent foreigner into jail for two years. The Indian’s heinous crime was to anchor the oil tanker he captained somewhere near the Taean peninsula, whereupon a Korean tugboat lost the barge it was pulling, and the barge set about punching holes in the tanker. Unrelated to Dokdo, I know, but I resolved on that day that Gerry should have his irrational anti-Korean voice in criticizing Korea’s irrational anti-foreign nationalism.
Boooo, ichiro you can kiss my ass. Bitch we’ll get you eventually and plant that flag up your ass next time. Heh heh heh
Pretty please, let’s avoid the godawful shame of a called game
파이팅!!!!
I think we’d definitely kick their ass in a brawl.
No doubt. These korean players are jacked up.
Hopefully not juiced up.
Man o man…another celebrity suicide? This is really getting out of hand…
@23 – WHO?
Gerry, the location of (So-Called Usando-所謂于山島 tells us in itself this island was not drawn as a result of a survey. It’s that simple.
I’m not saying the islet here isn’t Jukdo. I’m saying this island was drawn by Bak Seok Chang taken from a previous survey or record. In Han Jang Sang’s survey this island was not called Usando nor was the island 300 ri to the Southeast we know is Dokdo. In other words, this map partly represents the secondhand perceptions of one person
Gerry don’t you see Jeojeondong 所謂佇田洞 North of this So-Called Usando (Jukdo)?
Don’t you see 刻石立標 ?
Can’t you see 倭船倉可居 ?
This is Dodong area, 4 click South of Jukdo.
Clean the crap off your glasses and look at the map again Gerry!!
http://www.dokdo-takeshima.com.....6-east.jpg
This is Jukdo directly North from Jeodong. Do you really think Bak would confuse Jukdo as being about 1km South of this location?
http://dokdo-takeshima.com/jukdo-north2.jpg
Bak Seok Chang was not so out of his reckoning Gerry. We know this by all of the directional markers around Ulleungo on his map. Bak not only marked North South East West, he even marked the perimeter in 30 degree increments. This is why I believe the other two rocks found South of Three Angels rocks are the real Gwaneumdo and Jukdo, because next to them are the correct directional markers.
You can also notice the verifiably accurate rocks are shaded in black. (Three Angels Rocks, Hole Rock etc) The So-Called Usando is not and neither are the islands on the South shore. In subsequent maps of Ulleungdo these are sometimes labelled as “島“ Gerry. I’ve been to Ulleungdo’s South shore Sadong etc., three times and there certainly are not any huge rocks that fit the description of those on Chosun maps.
Yes Bak Seok Chang surveyed Ulleungdo, however, like most Korean mapmakers he added information of previous records and maps. This is why he drew the island directly East of Ulleungdo, this is why he drew the Hae-Jang Bamboo phrase on the island. This is also why he labelled Taeha Valley as 大川流出寬豁.
Gerry I gotta say it’s pretty sweet watching you quote the Dokdo Museum. So I guess you support their belief that Dokdo was incorportated in the year 512. Welcome to our side Gerry!!
I feel like a prison inmate whenever people refer to me solely by a number.
Ladron, a new actress who was starring in the pretty boy drama that’s getting everybody excited in Korea right now
There’s a fantastic short drama series called 김수현 스페셜 은사시나무 at wwww.dabdate.com
#26 “I feel like a prison inmate whenever people refer to me solely by a number.”
I felt the same way whenever a teacher called me by my assigned number while I was going to school here in Korea. Guess my self-esteem wasn’t important enough to them.
#24
She was one of evil girl trio on “Flowers Before Boys.” Apparently she hung herself.
http://news.nate.com/view/20090307n06698?mid=e0100
@28 장자연 thanks. Kind of a late start to the celebrity suicides this year
As I predicted China would do after its Olympic games, it would use NK to start something soon. Maybe this summer.
China is nothing but the old Germany. As the country sinks back into poverty, China will see a strong leader like Hitler rise up to unite people.
JoongHwa(the Chinese are the best in the world) idea will be promoted in China like “Aryan Nation” was in Germany.
How the history repeats itself!
This summer something may happen. A little too early but modern Asians are not patient people.
Frogmouth (#25),
I quoted the Dokdo Museum Director because if he is willing to admit that the Usando (于山島 – 우산도) on the 1711 map was Ulleungdo’s neighboring island of Jukdo, then it must be pretty obvious to most rational people.
Why would Bak Seok-chang (朴錫昌 – 박석창) sail all the way to Ulleugdo in 1711, crave and leave a stone marker commemorating his visit, and then sail back without surveying the island? Not even Korean historians are promoting such a ridiculous theory. Besides, even you have admitted that Inspector Bak left a stone marker.
Again, Ulleungdo’s neighboring islands on the 1711 map were not drawn to scale. They were drawn hundreds of times larger than their actual sizes. That means that the islands were not drawn to match up with landmarks on the main island, but were drawn to show a general location, such as the side of the island they were on and where they were in relation to each other. You cannot be precise when the islands you are drawing are hundreds of times larger than their actual size. Usando was drawn to the east of Ulleungdo, which is correct.
Also, you are being inconsistent. First, you claim that Bak did not survey the island, but then you talk about his shading “verifiably accurate rocks” in black. You are full of more bullshit than usual tonight.
As for the rocks off the southern tip of Ulleungdo, the 1864 British publication “China Pilot” described Ulleungdo as follows:
MATSU SIMA, or Dagelet island, is a collection of sharp conical hills, well clothed with wood, supporting an imposing peak in the centre, in lat. 37°30′N., long. 130°53′E. It is 18 miles in circumference, and in shape approximates a semicircle, the northern side, its diameter, running nearly E. by N. and W. by S. 6.25 miles. From each end the coast trends rather abruptly to the southward, curving gradually to the east and west, with several slight sinuosities until meeting at Seal Point, the south extreme of the island, off which is a small rock. There are several detached rocks along its shores, principally, however, on the north and east sides, some reaching an elevation of 400 to 500 feet. They are all, like the island, steep-to, and the lead affords no warning, but none of them are more than a quarter of a mile from the cliffs, except the Boussole rock, the largest, which is 7 cables from the east shore of the island. Hole rock on the north shore is remarkable, from having a large hole, or rather a natural archway through it, while nearly abreast it on the shore is a smooth but very steep sugar-loaf, apparently of bare granite, about 800 feet high. The sides of the island are so steep, that soundings could only be obtained by the Actaeon’s boats, almost at the base of the cliffs, while in the ship at 4 miles to the southward no bottom could be found at 400 fathoms, and 2.25 miles north none at 366 fathoms. Landing may be effected in fine weather, with difficulty, on some small shingly beaches, which occur at intervals, but the greater part of the island is quite inaccessible. During the spring and summer months some Koreans reside on the island, and build junks which they take across to the mainland; they also collect and dry large quantities of shell-fish. Except a few iron clamps, their boats are all wood-fastened, and they do not appear to appreciate the value of seasoned timber, as they were using quite green wood.
Notice that it said there was a small rock off Seal Point on the southern tip of the island. Even some modern Korean maps show that rock as “Gajae Bawui (가재 바위), which means “Sea Lion Rock” in the Ulleungdo dialect. Ulleungdo islanders referred to Gangchi (강치) as Gajae (가재). In this case, “Gajae” does not mean “crawfish.” There is also “Lion Rock” (사자바위) and “Turtle Rock” (거북바위). See HERE. Are you sure you went to Ulleungdo and not some other island?
Again, the rocks were not drawn to scale.
Notice also that it described Jukdo (Boussole rock) as being “7 cables from the east shore of the island.” Jang’s 1711 map also showed Usando (Jukdo) drawn off the “east” shore of the main island.
No, I do not support the Korean claim that Koreans incorporated Dokdo in 512. Do you?
Anyway, I am not on Korea’s side in regard to their historical claims on Dokdo, but I think Japanese should feel happy that people like you on Korea’s side.
Baduk, oddly enough wrote:
It does occur to me that there is more than a little similarity therein. The a large area of the Olympic throughway, in Beijing, was designed by Albert Speer’s son — *the* Albert Speer that was the chief architect of Hitler’s Third Reich.
One also hears too often the plaintive cry of how foreigners dominated China during previous centuries and how the Chinese have been victims. Such is reminiscent of the German’s sense of being a victim after the Treaty of Versailles. The Chinese now spend and spend on military gear to the point where even LMB makes a comment, during his recent trip to Australia, about such and how it may very well provoke an arms race in Asia.
Though the Third Reich is dead, human nature — for better or worse — is the same.
Gerry, are you slow? I never stated Bak Seok Chang didn’t survey Ulleungdo. I agree with the Museums assesment of his map. That is he did a quick tour of the general perimeter and added some features from previous, more thorough inspections. (Ulleungdo Sa-jeok)
The museum curator was also right that lobbyists like yourself are deliberately misleading the public with your slanted interpretations of these maps. You are focusing on one attribute of these charts and ignoring the other features and the origin of each map’s influences.
Gerry, Turtle Rock and Lion Rocks are not even in the ocean. They are attached to the shore of Ulleungdo, you can walk up and touch them walking from the shore. Can’t you see the people walking right next to them in the pics? Again, if Bak was drawing an accurate representation of what he saw he would have drawn them as well as he drew Hyeonmok Rock (Northwest) Hole Rock (North) and Three Angles Rocks (Northeast) and shaded them. But he didn’t he left them as vague symmetrical lined circles, totally different from the rocks that we can identify.
BTW, Gerry did you notice how subsequent maps of Ulleungdo labelled these circles as islands “島“?
Bak’s map does show Seal Point Gerry, however that is not the location at which he draws these strange shapes offshore. The Ulleungdo Se-Jeok mentions the South shore of Ulleungdo as being rocky and I think this is why Bak drew some vague rocks at this location. He had heard there were rocks there but had no real idea how big or where.
Here is an oldie but a goodie of yours Gerry.
http://dokdo-or-takeshima.blog.....ungdo.html
Now take a look at the map of yours I’ve posted and compare all of the text written on Ulleungdo Island. Every measurement of the distances from 白中峯 is the same. All of the place markers such as 著(佇)田洞, etc is the same. However, do you notice how the location changes Gerry?
Although the shape and locations of certain attributes changes, these maps can be all verified as copies of Bak Seok Chang’s 1711 map. This is indisputable, yet you have tried to present these maps as something they are not by childishly pointing the island and saying “Look everybody the island’s shape is the same!! As the museum stated you have ignored all of the other parts of the map.
Again look at the features on Bak’s map such as:
“Hole Rock-”孔岩“
“Waiting Winds Place-”待風所可居”
“Jeojeon Dong-”苧田洞可居”
“Bak’s Stone Marker-”刻石立標”
“Bak’s Wooden Signpost-”刻板立標
“Grave Markers-”石葬”
“Orange Clay Cave-”朱土窟”
“Taeha Stream and Valley-”大川流出寬豁”
Seong In Bong Mountain (East Side distance) 白中峯三十里餘
Seong In Bong Mountain (West Side distance)白中峯四十里餘
Seong In Bong Mountain (North Side distance)白中峯二十里餘
Seong In Bong Mountain (South Side distance)白中峯二十里餘
Again here is 1711 Bak’s map, the chart that started it all.
http://www.dokdo-takeshima.com/Ulleungdo16.jpg
Now compare Bak’s map with the first map above and notice how the shape, form and location of these features became less accurate instead of more accurate over time.
All of these features on all of these maps were repeatedly copied from Bak’s 1711 map. It’s not clear on what premise Bak decided this island was the Usando of old, however if differs from on site surveys of Ulleungdo both before (Ulleungdo Sajoeok in 1694) and after (Shim Ji Hyeon-1794) the influential 1711 map. It is also a departure from Anyongbok’s statements which said Usando was a day’s travel and 50ri away from Ulleungdo and also called Matsushima.
Thus, these Ulleungdo maps showing six adjacent rocks should be said to show “Bak’s Usando” because they all really represent one man’s perception.
Take these maps for what they are Gerry, and for God’s sake, stop embarrassing yourself by superimposing images of Google Earth on top of centuries old Chosun maps. That’s a ruse we can all see through.
Ouch.
Wales just topped the Argies 19 – 12 to take the Rugby World Cup Sevens. An entire world cup tournament – for both men and women – conducted over a weekend. Good show.
Just watched Crossing last night. Believe it’s reflecting only part of NK situations. My Prayers goes out to the North Korean defectors and North Korean children who would confront day-to-day hardship. Fucking KJI, politics, ideology and history.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThXzb4QSMzE
I know that Huer’s not a popular guy in these parts, but his latest op-ed seems to me quite sensible.
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/ww.....40850.html
The World Baseball Classic is AWESOME! Even if you don’t like baseball, the steam coming off both these teams is great. Wow, did Japan surprise everyone (especially the South Korean team) with that beating that they dealt out- the mercy rule had to be applied-damn that’s pure shame. Hopefully, and they should, Korea will beat China and then it’s game on again. The Korean coach should of pulled that kid as he flamed out with in minutes, did he have to wait till the Japanese threw a touch down/try (depending on your country) in the score card for 7 before he thought better of the situation. I only wish the next game would be held in Korea, that would be something fierce! Good luck to both teams and hats off to them for putting on such great battles- too bad it couldn’t only be on the ball field and not in… and Beave put down the Dokdo and pick up a hobby.
Beave put down the Dokdo and pick up a hobby
You don’t understand. For The Beave, Dokto IS a hobby. It appears the man lives, breathes, eats, and defecates Dokto. It’s his passion.
Think about it. What do you commonly see when you come across one of these intense Dokto posts? Obscure historical facts, place names in Chinese characters, intricate nautical descriptions of old maps…it’s the perfect hobby for an old fart who is a third-tier scholar and a history buff! How many Western Dokto experts are there in the world? He’s part of a tiny, exclusive club! Further motivation comes from the expectation that he’ll have regular opportunity to joust with one, Frogmouth, who is his inverse complement.
There is this romantic notion of the Beave in my head where he looks like a cross between Merlin, Nostradamus, and Gandalf, with wild Einsteinian hair, shut away in his study den, poring over old Dokto maps and manuscripts by candlelight, haven’t eaten, slept, or washed in weeks, muttering strange words and talking to himself. Once in a while, he also does a sole kareoke of a self-composed Dokto song using a webcam and posts it on Youtube.
Do you all remember a few months back, when the Max Plank Institute in Germany found that the Chinese classical poem they thought they had put on the cover of their journal was actually a Chinese advertisement for a brothel? Well, this case is even worse – a tattoo of a boyfriend’s “name.” Not bad if your name happens to be ‘Supermarket’!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_.....139492.stm
To Mr. JW (you’re more than just a number, and don’t let anyone tell you otherwise) and Mr. Mix,
I agree with JW that the Korean team looked “jacked up”, which I think in the case of the starting pitcher, 김광현, was part of the problem. The kid (and at 20 tender years in a big game, is still a kid) was a little too jacked up, it appeared to me.
And I’m definitely with Mr. Mix, he should have been pulled earlier. Why he wasn’t pulled in the 1st inning was puzzling; why he was sent out again to start the 2nd even more so; why he wasn’t pulled quickly thereafter…
I mean, it ain’t spring training. They’re all Game 7s in this thing, and you’ve got a brimming bullpen.
Which brings me to a question maybe someone can answer for me:
Why is 김인식 the manager now, in place of 김경문 (the manager who took Korea to a Olympic gold medal just months ago)?
I liked 경문 – his demeanor, coaching style, results, etc. I look at 인식, and the guy just looks too old school.
In a quick attempt to find the answer to the question above, I ran across the following description of their differing styles, which sounds kind of accurate to me (or, at least minus the ‘세계적 명장’ stuff):
http://article.joins.com/artic.....p;cloc=rss|news|total_list
# 39 Mr. Mix,
It is easy for the WBC Deciders to tell S. Korea “No, there won’t be any games held in S. Korea” because S.Korea doesn’t have any baseball stadiums that have been built in the past 5-10 years with modern dimensions.
I dunno, Choe. Where you find sense, I see gibberish. The title is a statement of the obvious, the article below it just the ramblings of an incoherent writer who has discovered that Korean and Western cultures are different, and is at a loss to explain why or how – although he urgently wants to. (Although it did remind me weakly of a long-ago attempt to read Umberto Eco, which was also a total failure of communication between the page and my brain.)
To rise to my own defense (since no one else will), I claim that I am one of those foreigners who understands Korea. But I have no clue what Huer is on about.
Did you knife them?
Respectfully disagree. It is a sideshow moneymaker with many half-strength (if that) teams. I will watch it anyways. It will never be anything great until it has control over the players.
Wow Netherlands.
#46
Actually I gunned them all down with my handheld chain gun and am writing this comment from my prison cell.
That was #46-1
NET you had me rolling over your description of the Beav- classic!
Zif and T-bone thanks for the info- the stadium thing makes absolute sense now.
Goat I hear where you’re coming from some of the teams are just filler but to see Japan and Korea, and the US. and Canada go at it in Canada- it’s up there with Yankees vs. Red Sox, minus the Yankees on the Juice. Cuba, man how many of those guys would love to defect and they’d only improve the image of a tarnish MLB
Player control- can you image Manny in the WBC lol “I’m just goin’ to wizz on the Tokyo Dome wall you just keep playing-” MannyWorld always good for a laugh.
Gosh, I hope not. We already have plenty of very expensive single-use stadiums here in Korea from the World Cup.
R. Elgin,
“Olympic throughway, in Beijing, was designed by Albert Speer’s son — *the* Albert Speer that was the chief architect of Hitler’s Third Reich.”
That is scary.
This summer will be the summer of discontent for the Chinese. They suddenly will feel that they cannot get out of poverty. Foreign businessmen are taking advantage of them and they are again left with nothing.
They will be mad. So mad that they may start doing something about it.
Using NK, their goon, to shoot missiles to Japan or to the US?
Mad men do desperate things.
I watched four movies today.
Watchmen: Hippie bullshit. C-
He is not into you: Funny and truthful. B+
Media goes to jail: better than I imagined it to be. B
Taken: Kick ass movie. I want Liam to take some prisoners but he never did. A-
The movie I watch last week, the International, was good too. (Mafia was the answer).A.
I am waiting for the movie, Crank2. That will be another kick-ass movie. I loved the Crank.
Four movies in one day? Total running time: Seven hours and six minutes, assuming they start one after the other, with no delays for ads or whatnot. You must have been at that theater for eight hours minimum, on a Saturday night.
Two that I know of.
The movie I watch last week, the International, was good too. (Mafia was the answer).
“International” was excellent. I highly recommend it.
Well, “Watchmen” certainly isn’t for everyone. Although I’m surprised to learn that “Madea Goes to Jail” is for anyone.
Frogmouth (#33) wrote:
The Dokdo Museum Director did not say Bak Seok-chang made just “a quick tour of the general perimeter of Ulleungdo” and “added some features from previous, more thorough inspections.” That is just your silly imagination at work because there is nothing written about that in the history.
Frogmouth (#33) wrote:
And you are focusing on insignificate features of the map to try to distract attention away from the obvious, which was that “Usando” (于山島 – 우산도) was drawn as Ulleungdo’s neighboring island of Jukdo, not as Dokdo.
Frogmouth (#33) wrote:
People can walk out to Turtle Rock and Lion Rock because concrete piers and walkways have been constructed leading out to them. Turtle Rock and Lion Rock. By the way, look at what they are doing to Ulleungdo’s beautiful coastline: Here, Here, and HERE I do not think Koreans will be satisfied until they have that whole island covered with buildings and cement.
Frogmouth (#33) wrote:
Seal Point is at the very southern tip of Ulleungdo. British surveys in the 1800s mentioned the rock offshore of that point, and Koreans today call the rock “Gajae Bawui,” which means “Sea Lion Rock” in the Ulleungdo dialect. See HERE.
If you look at the 1711 Map, you will see that two of the islands were drawn directly to the south (南 – 남) of the island, which is where seal point is.
Anyway, I do not know exactly what those rocks on the 1711 map represented or why they appeared on subsequent maps of Ulleungdo, and neither do you, but the 1711 map was not the only survey map of Ulleungdo. Besides Bak’s 1711 map and the Lee’s 1882 map, there are two other known survey maps of Ulleungdo: HERE and HERE These other two survey maps labeled Ulleungdo’s neighboring islands of Jukdo and Gwaneumdo as “Big Udo” (大于島 – 대우도) and “Little Udo” (小于島 – 소우도), though the second map miswrote “U” (于 – 우) as “gan” (干 – gan). “Udo” (于島 – 우도) was an abbreviation for “Usando” (于山島 – 우산도). Therefore, three out of four of Korea’s inspector’s maps labeled Ulleungdo’s neighboring island of Jukdo as “Usando.” The last inspector’s map, the 1882 map labeled the island as Jukdo (竹島 – 죽도), which is the name Koreans use today.
Frogmouth, you can list all the placenames on the maps you want to, but it will not change the fact that Korea’s old maps of Ulleungdo labeled Ulleungdo’s neighboring island of Jukdo as “Usando.” Usando was not Dokdo (Liancourt Rocks, and Korea has not old maps of Dokdo or any records of Koreans visiting there before the Japanese started taking them there on Japanese fishing boats in the early 1900s.
Actually, I do not understand what point you are trying to make because you are being very inconsistent and irrational.
You say you agree with the Dokdo Museum Director’s conclusion that the “Usando” on Bak’s 1711 map was Ulleungdo’s neighboring island of Jukdo. You also say that Korea’s subsequent maps of Ulleungdo were based on Bak’s map. Then wouldn’t that mean that Korea’s subsequent maps of Ulleungdo showed Usando as Ulleungdo’s neighboring island of Jukdo, not as Dokdo? What are you trying to say, exactly?
I am not the one who superimposed the images of Korea’s old maps of Ulleungdo over the Google map of Ulleungdo, but I think those images make a very good point, where is that Usando was drawn right next to Ulleungdo, not ninety-two kilometers southeast of Ulleungdo.
Well, frogmouth, I think this will be my last post about Dokdo on this thread. You can continue to embarrass yourself if you want, but I will not respond.
#46
Nicely done. No point messing round if they have it coming.
Shit. I called you by number. Please forget this comment when you get out.
I have written a final Dokdo response to Frogmouth, but it must be waiting for confirmation since it has a few links in it.
#56
Don’t worry, you’re next on my list. I’m having a real craving for goat meat right now.
Interestingly I find our conversation a 1000 times more intellectually stimulating than the Dokdo talk going on on this thread.
No problem. I’ve sprung it from the spam queue. But remember, Gerry, final means final. The next Dokdo comments out of you — ever — get deleted.
Oh, and Frogmouth gets the last word. Even though I think you are right.
#59
That would #56+1
Maybe I should lay off the LSD. It must be frying my brain.
No, it’s not frying your brain. The comments are numbered according to the order of the time and date they’re entered. Comments which get caught and subsequently sprung from the spam queue retain their original time and date stamps, and so get inserted into the list of comments accordingly — thus disrupting the previously-existing numbering.
That’s why it’s stupid to reply to comments with “#xx” as your only reference. Learn to use the <blockquote></blockquote> HTML tag pairs to quote text to which you’re replying. It’s not hard at all.
Don’t worry Jewook, I’m sure he didn’t mean to call you stupid. He just has his testosterone pumping from laying down the law on Gerry – a favor to us all – so please try to forgive.
Not trying to pick a fight here, but I think that may have more to do with the way you like to process information than it does with the way Eco prefers to write. ‘The Name of the Rose’ is justifiably held to be a masterwork. Its rich story is brilliantly interwoven with metaphor and symbolism, to the point that Eco has found fans from readers interested in widely different genres.
Eco clearly possesses the ability to develop ideas, and he knows how to write. His ‘on literature’ might bring to mind one of Primo Levi’s books (‘Other People’s Trades’, for example; ‘Baudolino’, while not derivitive, reads like something by Italo Calvino. Yet, where ‘The Name of the Rose’ was admirable in that it was complex yet accessable to different people on different levels, his other works lack such broad appeal.
Linkd, I mean no disrespect, but based on the many economics-related pieces you regularly provide for folks to read on these threads, you seem to favor a direct informational writing style. There’s nothing wrong with that, of course, but it’s not everyone’s favored approach. Eco is an advocate of reader response; his work draws a greater connection between the reader and the idea, rather than between the writer and the information. As he is a professor of semiotics, this approach is perhaps understandable. At any rate, it is one reason why he has garnered so many fans over the years.
Not even a week on the job and already this coming from Dartmouth:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200.....ent_e_mail
Koreans (and people of Korean ethnicity) …we are such killjoy, humourless people who don’t get the matey jokes, just inviting to be bashed…
No offense taken, and I’m sure you’re right, gbnhj. It was Foucault’s Pendulum that I read cover to cover one dreary weekend when I was broke and friendless in a new city, having invested 7 precious dollars in what I had hoped to be intelligent distraction for the next two days. It was pure frustration and disappointment, although, as you say, the dude can write.
WJ Choe’s super-smart, so of course I know there must be something in that (IMO) dreadful article by Huer that I’m missing. Perhaps you can decipher it for me – cuz all I get out of it is that he’s saying Korea should just drop Korean culture and adopt Western culture. No?
#66
“Name of the Rose” is much more exciting, “Foucault’s Pendulum” I found disappointing because of the expectation perhaps. “Island of the Day Before” was a bit better, a la the Name of the Rose.
Novels by super clever academics get on my nerves when it becomes a showcase of how much the author knows or what a broad knowledge he/she has about the world, when it starts to deter the reader from the pure excitement of the storyline and character development. It happens also with A.S Byatt. It’s painful like watching an art critic who knows what it should be like attempting to draw.
Exactly. I don’t mind occasionally meeting someone who’s smarter than me, as long as they’re apologetic about it.
Linkd,
First, let’s disabuse ourselves from the notion that Huer is attempting anything like similar to what Eco does when he writeis. Frankly, I think Huer is simply trying to get his name in the paper.
That said, consider this:
This alone – so close to the truth, but spearate from it – shows that Huer does not know. The individual whom Huer so quickly concludes is isolated is intimately connected to family and freinds, to co-workers and community members, in a way that Huer dismisses. Since we seem to have taken a literary bent today, it’s as if he took a peek at Octavio Paz’s ‘Labyrinth of Solitude’ and decided that it applied to Koreans as well.
Frankly, I think he’s wrong. On a personal level, I know three people here – who only have me as a locus, and otherwise do not have any connection – who volunteer their time and energy at NGO’s. Staeside, I know of only one (and I’m from the tree-hugging town of Seattle). Logically, were I Huer, I would contend that Koreans were the more altruistic.
But beyond that, what’s with the ‘unpredictable place largely dependent on the moods of the moment’ descriptive? I mean, come on, anyone who’s lived here for a while and actually gone outside and spent time talking to folks (in Korean, not English), would probably have trouble with this statement. In Huer’s view, chaos reigns outside the apartment – it’s an ‘unpredictable place’. That’s laughable.
yuna,
I agree that ‘The Name of the Rose’ is exciting in a way that his other books are not, but then again, making those other books exciting was not really a goal of his. Keep in mind that his publisher, Harcourt Brace & Company, handles the mass-marketing of his books, and I think it’s rather they who gave you the impression that his other books might be similar. They are the ones who, after getting so much money from so many different readers with ‘The Name of the Rose’, sought to market his books as if they were also similar – even going so far as to make the covers appear similar by using similar colors and style.
Typo’s above are (I believe) related to the beer I just drank, and do not reflect any lack of concern. Sorry ~
#69
Then, if my memory serves correctly, regarding Foucault’s – did the publisher also pressure Eco to inject a Da Vinci Code storyline with an italian glamour puss in a tight sweater or something (I read it a long time ago) to tease the stiff who was the main character and also have an old know-it-all noble man in a wheelchair and a butler to be a surprise(or not so much) villain? The Name of the Rose was enjoyable because the historical and academic information became an absolute delight to absorb as much as the characters themselves. Foucault just wasn’t, and failed because even the information it started to drone out became as mundane as the characters themselves but I think that’s only my personal taste because I know he is *almost* better lauded for Foucault’s, and I heard so many people recommend it.
BTW I love Italo Calvino without any reserve -without any storylines and heroines, or covers.
Well, I read that book a long time ago, too, but I know it predates ‘The da Vinci Code’, so criticism regarding any supposed similarity ought to be leveled at Dan Brown. Without question, it follows familiar teritory: French locales, the Knights Templar, and mysterious documents. Still, if I remember correctly, ‘Foucalt’s Pendulum’ was about the search for knowledge, and was critical of buying into the ideas that Dan Brown suggested in his novel.
Beer consumption and typos: it’s reductive.
“I know that Huer’s not a popular guy in these parts, but his latest op-ed seems to me quite sensible.”
No just as lightweight, and common folklore based as normal. Doesn’t even know what persona non-grata means.
Aw, of course I knew Foucault’s predated da Vinci, come on!
My point was some concoctions work and some things don’t – answering to your previous comment the author made a clear distinction between the “Name of the Rose” and “Foucault’s”.
It was just the tone in which it was written, I found annoying and now it’s coming back to me – with a character named Causabon and so on. I mean that’s just pretentious innit? See how many obvious but subtle references you can spot in my oh so clever book with a (not) exciting storyline.
Foucault’s Pendulum was actually a decent book but wants one to bring much to it in the way of esoteric teachings, which is problematic. The trumpet call at the end that unites heaven and earth — is like a Baal Shim Tov anecdote. Ecco could have aimed at telling his story in a simpler manner but he writes as he will.
Brendon (#60) wrote:
Fine with me. You guys enjoy yourselves.
I’m sorry, yuna, I didn’t mean to suggest that you didn’t know because, yes, it’s probably pretty clear to folks who know these two authors. I was only writing that for the benefit of those who don’t know these two writers as well as you.
If you don’t like Umberto Eco, that’s fine with me. There’s loads of writers I don’t like. But I don’t think he’s trying to be pretentious, although I do understand how many readers could feel that way. Again, I think that’s really blame you might lay with Harcourt Brace for their interest in making money from a wider audience. Or perhaps blame might rest with the individuals themselves, who simply expected something else, something they’d gotten with ‘The Name of the Rose’.
Umberto Eco is a professor of semiotics at the University of Bologna. His academic career is entirely dedicated to a field that’s concerned with what you’ve described as ’subtle references’, and it is from that background that he developed his literary career. I don’t think he’s trying to be pretentious so much as creative, but I accept your reaction to his work. Frankly, I’d guess that there are many people who hold a view similar to yours.
Agreed with *everything you say* – I knew he was a professor at the uni of Bologna as well because Name of the Rose was one of my childhood faves. But I have to be honest and admit till now I thought his specialist subject was semantics not semiotics. I’ve read his interviews as well.
But with fiction, (which it is in the end) it’s that je ne sais quoi you know? You love some books and you don’t? Same as people? You can handle arrogant people who know a lot some days and some days you cannot?
All this talk of Foucault’s Pendulum (the only book by Eco I have read cover to cover) made me look up the Wiki and remind myself of some details. I found this:
“However, when Casaubon’s girlfriend Lia asks to see the coded manuscript, she comes up with a mundane interpretation. She suggests that the document is simply a delivery list, and encourages Casaubon to abandon the game as she fears it is having a negative effect on him.”
Then in my mind’s eye I replace Casaubon’s name with GBevers. I think it works, thereby connecting 2 of the subplots of this thread. Now, if someone else will work in the baseball and prison references, we will really have something…
Well, I agree with you that some books ‘work’ and others don’t – ‘The Island of the Day Before’ was that way for me. Man, I wanted to get into it, but I just couldn’t! That book got sold quick…
But hamel, what about the girfriend’s name? Or is Lia short for Liancourt?
gbnhj: brilliant! You’re invited for the beer too.
Another open thread, another 83 examples of why comment moderation is a good thing.
Who else thinks that the idea that people can go into debt and spend themselves into wealth is a crazy idea – like the stimulus packages being put into effect in most of the western world?
What’s your solution?
Linkd and Shak: I would love to read some positive ideas from libertarians and neo-liberals about how they would save the world economy. They seem to be good at saying what they would NOT do.
BrianD: I trust you moderate the comments on your own blog they way you want them done here. Don’t be such a party pooper! Robert made the open comment thread for a reason.
I have to let shak start this one. I’m trying to save my OWN economy right now by working til my eyes bleed. So, no time to compose bottom-up save the world essays, but I’m always happy to quickly shoot down someone else’s idea.
U.S. soldier held after knife attack near Osan:
http://www.stripes.com/article.....icle=61179
I wonder if this isolated incident will spawn a 200 comment thread of armchair sociologists examining the pathology of the offender’s ethnic group/nationality. Not likely.
If there arise accusations that the Filipina had insulted the soldier’s nationality prior to the attack, then it is likely.
Good one, Sonagi !
But I must go with not likely, because the wonderfully balanced Americans will go “meh! Just another day outside a US barrack on some foreign soil with a hard to pronounce name.” and go back to eating their breakfast under good faith that the government will represent the soldier and get him out of the small mess he’s made for himself.
Yuna,
You might want to head over to ROK Drop and check out his links on GI crimes in Korea.
Linkd,
Just let the bad companies go bust. That will clear out the bad debt and get people lending again. There will be a sharp downturn, and more unemployment, but the recession will be shorter. The policies of the western world are the same of that of Japan’s after their bust. The result? Zombie banks and stagnant growth that they have not recovered from despite near zero interest rates from the BOJ.
There are no silver bullets to ’solve’ the situation (this recession has to happen), but how can irresponsible overspending and easy credit, which have arguably been major factors in the current crisis, possibly be the way to fix the problem?
Well that was easy. I’m with you on that one. Competition is great but no company can compete against the government. As long as the government just keeps dribbling money into zombie companies, the private money will sit on the sidelines. There’s no point moving until you’re sure the government is done, and so far the US government hasn’t given the slightest clue when it might be done, and every other government is taking their cues from the US. (Note- this does not mean that I am opposed to stimulus spending. I’m definitely in favor of that, but open-ended bailouts are NOT stimulus spending).
Great read here: Too big has failed.
Sonagi, even if such an unlikely scenario were to happen, I doubt it would spawn a 200 comment thread. In fact, I know it wouldn’t, and so do you.
But lets consider the inverse of that scenario.
Consider what would happen if a Korean man in New Zealand stabbed and almost killed a local woman in a “fit of jealousy” like this US soldier did. I’m sure the comments here would be predictably asinine with endless haranguing from the usual suspects about the pathology of Korean males.
Of course, I’m not including you in that group. As an enlightened, liberal, post-racial American, I’m sure you would be above all that.
Links, looks like we agree.
Another point, imagine you were a competitor that worked hard for years in competition against a corporate monolith that finally received it’s comeuppance in this crisis. Then imagine the government comes along and announces that they are going to give that corporation X billions of dollars – money that they will use to try to put you out of business.
It is a sickening thought.
Actually we might not be in total agreement. When I say ‘let them fail’ I don’t mean immediate sudden-death liquidation, I mean Chapter 11 managed bankruptcies with the government as receiver. Read the link, it’s pretty clear there.
Such things have been known to occur on the Korean Intertubes – I’ve read them myself – doesn’t that count? Or is only what Westerners say online important?
If you want to play that game dogbertt, the proper equivalent to a thread on this blog wouldn’t be what is said on the “Korean Intertubes”. It would be what is said in the Korean-American community, which, as far as I know, doesn’t go into hysterics whenever someone from their adopted country commits a crime in their home country.
You KNOW what would happen in an unlikely scenario. Crystal ball? Tea leaves? Tarot cards? What’s your secret?
I look at tea leaf stained tarot cards though a crystal ball. It’s foolproof.
In all seriousness, has anyone ever told you that you have a tendency to get hung up on peripheral details while missing the main thrust of an argument?
Linked at #44, 66
Thanks for the usual smarmy, mildly ad-hominem, comments.
But you are really tilting against straw men. For the record, I was certainly not making the case that Mr. Huer was a virtuoso stylist; nor was I claiming that he had an unparalleled, comprehensive insight into the inner labyrinth of Korean culture.
Instead, my extremely limited (implied) claim was that Mr. Huer’s understanding of the difference between how Americans and Koreans view “public” space—which was the nerve of his op-ed—is rather “sensible.” That is all. And I would think this is really not a controversial point (unless you are a “hard” universalist and claim that there are no cultural differences or even such a thing as a “culture.)
Of course, you may claim that this cultural point—while true—is banal, unoriginal, and whatever else you may call it in the like vein. I would not object. But also understand the context. Mr. Huer has been a subject of merciless ridicule in these parts, and my one-sentence post was a rather playful “hey, he’s not as bad as you guys make him out to be!” reminder. Again, no effort was made to elevate him to the status of a Goethe or Tocqueville.
I suppose you don’t like me because—as you have averred emphatically before—I am intellectually pretentious without anything apparently tangible to back it up. Or as you said before, any fool can be an online expert—or something to that effect. Fair enough. I have taken your conclusion—independently arrived as well—to heart and as a result have done my best recently to not get bogged down in endless, fruitless intellectual arguments online, with some choice exceptions.
But again, you are reading way too much into a one-sentence post that was composed in a joking spirit.
gbnhj at # 64,
Your presentation of Eco’s style and its connection to his study of semiotics is fascinating. I usually do not read contemporary popular fiction but your post has inspired me to do, given that the center of my philosophic interest is similar–that is, how various philosophers presented their teaching in different circumstances (or the phenomenon of “esoteric writing” that Leo Strauss made famous or infamous.
Would you happen to know which theorists of semiotics may have been among Eco’s chief influences?
You are right Gerry, (for once). It wasn’t the Dokdo Museum that said you were full of shit. It was the Northeast History Foundation. You should know, you posted the article on Occidentalism, or don’t you remember Gerry?
The Northeast History Foundation stated:
“The so-called Usando” is just written on the outline of an island, similar to four islands to the south, which is different from islets like Samseon Rocks and Elephant Rock on the north side of the island. Actually, there are no islands to the south of Ulleungdo. It is assumed that the map was not made from an actual survey, but was made based on hearsay.
Concerning “haejangjukjeon, the so-called Usando,” it is believed that the inspector did not conduct a “concrete” investigation, but just followed the coastline and drew Jukdo (Bamboo Island), with its tall bamboo, and Usando (Dokdo), which was determined clearly at that time by the activities of An Yong-bok…”
The Northeast History Foundation came to the same conclusion that I did. This was even before I discovered the critical flaws of Bak’s 1711 map. You’ve tried to smugly insinuate I’ve concocted some theory about Bak’s map however this was also agreed upon by Korean historians as well.
Again here is Bak’s map Gerry.
http://www.dokdo-takeshima.com/Ulleungdo16.jpg
Here is a real map of Ulleungdo.
http://www.dokdo-takeshima.com.....p-1711.jpg
Now consider the fact that Bak drew this “Jukdo” in front of Dodong Harbour as shown on the real map of Ulleungdo. This was even after he labelled Naesujeon (佇田洞) accurately to the North. So not only did Bak draw this “Jukdo” way off by compass and distance, he was inaccurate relative to the other known landmarks. Why? Because he cited the Ulleungdo Sajeok Gerry.
The Ulleungdo Sa-joek states. “About 5 ri away to the East from there was an island which was not that big with a lot of haejang bamboo growing on one side…” Sure enough Bak drew this island (Jukdo?) (very inaccurately) due East “東“ and likewise labelled haejang bamboo ”海長竹田“ on the islet.
The Ulleungdo Sajoek describes Taeha Ri and Stream as “大川流出寬豁” Sure enough Bak’s map labels Taeha as such.
But most importantly the Ulleungdo Sajeok describes an island to the South-southeast (長) of Ulleungdo that we know was Dokdo. Sure enough, on Bak’s 1711 map exactly next to the character “長” can be seen the vague outline of an island. That’s why Bak’s map is important.
Gerry, Bak drew Ulleungdo’s surrounding rocks shaded in black and true to form. What he wasn’t clear about, he drew outlined and vague.
You can see Bak’s Elephant Rock and Three Angels Rocks here. Note they are shaded and the form is correct.
http://www.dokdo-takeshima.com/Ulleungdo16-ne.jpg
Here is the real Elephant Rock and Three Angels.
http://www.dokdo-takeshima.com/ulleungdo-trip3.jpg
http://www.dokdo-takeshima.com/three-angels-1.jpg
Now you say these rocks are Lion Rock and Turtle Rock? Gerry, first there are four rocks there and they are almost identical in shape. These rocks are niether Lion Rock nor Turtle Rock. They are ambiguously scrawled to symbolize or represent rocks that were described in previous surveys just as the Northeast History Foundation stated.
BTW, you ignorance shows through again. Part of the reason the Koreans put cement around these rocks is because of erosion. There are constant rock slides and erosion damage on Ulleungdo. Hurricane Maemi threw around 10 ton cement tetrapods like jumping jacks. It took years to repair the damage. The Southwest side of Ulleungdo bears the brunt of spring and summer waves. Without proper protection, these famous landmark rocks will eventually erode and topple.
Gerry, you are great at taking potshots at ambiguous Chosun maps, but as I’ve pointed out before, (post 9) with all the reams of “data” on your website where is the proof of Japan’s historical title? I still haven’t seen anything from you after five years of posting on this subject.
This is a shame. Smarmy ad hominem attacks are part of my general MO for sure, but insulting you is something I would never do intentionally. I do like you in a virtual way, and I am very sorry for any offense I have caused you.
You called me out once for having made an absolute statement about the use of torture in interrogations, a subject about which I knew nothing concrete. A combination of pride, embarrassment and respect for intellectual rigor then led me to spend 3 or 4 hours producing this response to you. It was a memorable lesson, and I appreciated it.
I complimented you here in a discussion about Fukuyama, a writer who I know to be over my head. Your reply (scroll down) supplied quite enough ‘tangible backup’.
Scanning the Huer article, which I tried to look at on its own merits because of my respect for your recommendation, I assumed Huer was using some sort of academic lexicon I wasn’t privy to – like when Fukuyama talked about “Hegel’s dialectic” I had no idea what that meant, and just read on. But with Fukuyama I got the main idea. With Huer, I was lost. I couldn’t even understand what he meant by ‘public’.
I think what happened in my comment #44 is that my impression (OK, scorn) of Huer’s article got too mingled with the fact that I began the comment by addressing you, and so the scorn unintentionally seemed to be thrown your way. It was actually a clumsy invitation to explain to me something I may have been missing due to Huer’s writing style.
Again, I apologize.
Likely? LOL. Not here.
Anyway, we all know what would happen if the killer in the following turns out to be Korean, right?
Pastor shot dead during church service in Illinois:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200.....h_shooting
@102
Amen to that.
You’re agreeing with Tinyflowers? Well, I’m shocked.
Won Joon — You’re a lawyer, aren’t you? I think the crux of how Koreans’ and English common-law world citizens’ perceptions of the world differ (and how those perceptions affect behavior) is most immediately apparent to those who’ve had a property class.
Like you, when I read Huer’s piece, I thought that was the point toward which he was fumbling.
The English common law creates a trinary worldview at least (mine, yours, and not-mine/not-yours/ours/the “commons”), while the Korean worldview is obviously extremely binary: mine/not-mine. In the English common law, all parties have explicit and implicit rights and responsibilities with respect to the commons, which is not theirs — a concept which is wholly absent in the Korean worldview.
Linkd,
Chapter 11 is fine. It allows for the discovery process and valuation of assets.
I’m sorry, but I don’t. Although I once spent a few weeks studying religious symbology in an art history course, I’m not really knowledgable in the field of semiotics. You might try googling him, and see what you come across.
BTW, I like your take on the idea of ‘thematic reading’. You may like Primo Levi, then. Although most think of him as a writer, he was also a trained chemist who, among other pursuits, wrote a newspaper column which took mundane, technical subjects and made them something for a broader audience to ponder. I know, it may sound bland, but he’s an awesome writer, and his columns were quite popular. He really had an ability to connect abstruse subject matter to the world of the general public.
If you discover that you like semiotics, you might get into Vladimir Nabokov’s ‘Lolita’, which is admirable both in its use of symbology (it’s absolutely everywhere) and as an example of the mastery of use possible in second-language acquisition. Another fun read.
Not as surprised as I am, believe me.
Re: Nabokov
N is a great writer in the two languages in which I’ve read him, English and Russian. I believe he did a bit of writing in French, though I don’t read French and have not read those works in translation either. My quibble is considering English his second language; it really wasn’t. His entire family spoke English to him from the day he was born, and indeed, his first word, if he is to be believed, was the English ‘cocoa,’ and not the Russian ‘cacao.’ Nabokov is a great writer, but he’s no Conrad; he had Russian and English since childhood.
Hey tinyflowers, it looks like it might actually span 200 comments the way you keep bringing it up and missing the point yourself. For all who keep going on about the number of threads on the Kiwi incident, isn’t it time you looked in the mirror, and realize that the comments could probably be reduced to 1/3 if you guys didn’t exist?
Wow, really? I have to admit, I’d always been impressed with him for his knowledge and use of English, and didn’t know that he’d spoken it as a child at home. He’s still great, as you say.
Umberto Eco and Dan Brown novels are as respectable as reading the Sun. And by reading, I mean looking at the Sun girls. But to be fair, reading something at least beats watching Scrubs, that show is awful.
gas prices in the US midwest and east coast is hovering under 2 dollars.
Americans are driving 80mph once again.
55mph was seen when it was 5 bucks a gallon.
I don’t get the adulation for The Dark Knight. I thought it was a mere flick, good as it can be but forgettable and meaningless. Some people are too easily amused.
Watchmen seems good.
What’s wrong with Incheon’s Munhak baseball stadium? Built in 2001, so uh, eight years old, it’s 95-120-95, which isn’t a million miles from New Yankee Stadium’s 97-124-96, seats 30,000, which wouldn’t be enough, but let’s face it, nowhere would be enough (several MLB ballparks are under 40,000.)
Munhak’s a good choice – it’s a nice stadium (much nicer than watching a game in Chamsil), and it’s convenientlly connected to IIA by train and shuttle.
wOW, this guy Darvish has a wicked breaking ball to complement that 94 mph fastball.
BONG!!!!!
Local PA Korean Americans making complete arses of themselves to the community.
You know you have really f’d up if the local mainstream paper has gotten wind of the dirty laundry!
http://www.mcall.com/news/loca.....8051.story
These pitchers for Team Korea are MLB caliber.
What a pleasant surprise. I think we have a decent shot at the championship if the theory “pitching and defense wins championships” is a valid one.
It’s amazing how often Team Korea beats Japan in these 1 run games.
One Korean netizen joked that Japan bangs out 14 runs to beat Korea but Korea only needs 1. Funny as hell, but it speaks to a special ability for these Koreans to get the job done against the Japanese time after time despite clearly being the underdogs.
What do ya know… Racism exists in Dartmouth also…
http://english.donga.com/srv/s.....9030935388
Another inadequate attempt at satire that crashed and burned. If most of your audience/readers can’t tell between a piece intended to be satirical and an actual racist rant, then the writers of the satire have failed miserably. It’s not that the joke was in poor taste… it’s just that the joke sucked big floppy donkey penis.
Same thing with that New Yorker cartoon.
I think that letter was brewed in a cauldron filled with 50% stupidity, 20% racism, 20% nationalism and 10% attempted humor.
That’s why it’s a good idea to try to put one witty line in anything that’s going to make you look like an idiot. You can always say you were just making a joke.
Wow. No offense intended, eh? Right.
At least the hicks* behind that letter had the good grace to exclude references to Cho Seung Hui.
*Deliciously satirical!
Oh, and for a follow up in this week’s “I’m glad the spree shooter isn’t Korean because if he were we’d all know what the blogs would be like” news, we have a spree shooting in Alabama, 9 dead:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200....._shootings
And yet ANOTHER follow up in this week’s ““I’m glad the shooter isn’t Korean because if he were we’d all know what the blogs would be like” news:
:
http://news.smh.com.au/breakin.....-8vl1.html
It’s a wild world.
Here’s a Sky News resport about the above incident.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xz89USuZW8Y
Quite dramatic.
And I meant to bold the text in my prior comment, not blockquote it.
Sad. I guess school shootings are no longer a bizarre occurrence and are rather a colloquial fact of life, a fixed feature in modern society.
Tailors in Itaewon?
I’m hoping to buy a suit or two and maybe a topcoat. I’ve picked up some dress shirts from a couple of tailors over the years in Itaewon, but the whole affair kinda pissed me off. …walk into a shop and they give you the hard sell, slander the shops next door, and then try to measure you with their tape as quickly as possible because they know there are 50 other tailors in the neighborhood offering the same products. I’ve yet to find a place that I really want to go back to. Results have been mixed on quality. For a dress shirt or two, that’s ok, but for suits, I’m not willing to take the risk.
Can anyone make a recommendation for a reputable tailor in Itaewon (or elsewhere in Seoul)? Thanks in advance.
Manhattan Tailor (can’t give you the contact points because I giving away the guy’s cards).
To find: Imagine you are on the north side of Itaewon street, standing at the crosswalk where the Pizza Hut used to be, right in front of the post office. Cross the street, heading south, and walk straight into the door of the long, white two-storey building in front of you. Go upstairs to the second floor and look to the back left corner. That’s manhattan tailor and the owner is “Tailor Kim”, whose English is excellent. You can sit down and spend all afternoon looking at fabrics and he won’t rush you. And he does real fittings before finishing the suit. Lots of tailors don’t. He’ll make you a happy man for 240,000 to 280,000 for a 2-piece in most fabrics, but if you want to see the “import book” you can spend a little more.
One small detail that always irks me, though. You have to tell him to put an actual hole in the left lapel, otherwise it comes back with just a stitched outline.
One thing I don’t get about tailors is when they ask you “you want to pick it up tomorrow?” as that’s some kind of advantage. I can wait 2 or 3 days for a fitting and a week for the suit, no biggy.
Thanks for the advice. Not sure where pizza hut used to be, but I’m sure I’ll be able to find them. I’ll look them up.
240,000-280,000 for a suit at the 1,500won/$? Don’t think I can beat that.
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