CBS is reporting that a foreigner who had his teaching credentials stripped in the United States for child molestation has been working openly as a professor in Korea for the last decade.
Naturally, this is leading some to question Immigration’s handling of foreigners and the hiring process of foreign professors.
Prof. A, who is teaching at a university in Daejeon, was convicted in 1996 of molesting girls under the age of 14 while employed as a middle school teacher in California. In 1997, he was imprisoned for six weeks on charges of paying female students so that he could feel their legs and hands while in his office.
CBS quotes Prof. A as claiming that while he was indeed convicted of child molestation, this record was erased in 2002 after a court judged the crime to be minor.
Prof. A said, however, that it was true the crime remains on his FBI record.
Because of the incident, he was reportedly kicked out of the school and had his teaching credentials stripped.
So in 1999, he came to Korea, where he has worked as professor and instructor at public and private universities. Since 2001, he has taught English conversation at four universities.
These days during the vacation period, he runs a conversation class for children at the college.
Prof. A apparently faced no restrictions when getting employed as a professor. Why, you might ask? Well, according to CBS, current law states that while native speaker instructors (E2 visas) need to submit criminal background checks, professors (E-1 visas) have no separate requirement.
In fact, when the Justice Ministry made it mandatory for E-2 visa holders to submit criminal background checks, he switched to E-1 visa during the grace period.
Now this you’ll love — despite the Daejeon Immigration Office belatedly discovering that Prof. A was charged with child molestation, it’s not taking any measures against him.
While Prof. A is saying he’s caused no trouble in the decade he’s been here and vowing to put up a legal struggle if Immigration tries to deport him, Immigration simply said it has nothing to say at the moment.
CBS said due to a porous legal net and Immigration’s failure to properly manage the foreigners, a foreigner inviting controversy concerning sexual abuse is openly standing in the classroom.
{ 123 comments… read them below or add one }
Oh boy. Here we go again!
Between (understandably) outraged netizens and the foreign community (once they figure out who the guy is), I’d say he’s in for a rough trot. Time to leave.
But, pray tell, where does a child molester go when outed in both his home country and Korea?
Cambodia?
Gotta find some other country where language prevents the locals from finding out about your past. I think that would keep him somewhere in Asia — Vietnam, Thailand, China, Laos, Cambodia, and so forth.
I am sure he has friends up-the-ass, they will certainly help.
Ok, a few questions…
Do we have a name for this person?
Which university is/did this person work with time person worked at schools in Daejeon?
Which CBS..? CBS in USA or CBS in Korea?
Who broke the story and exactly what evidence, if any, this person committed any crime while employed here in Korea?
Can someone explain this legal issue of having a criminal record erased, but still having a criminal record? Are FBI records unable to be erased? Or was it because this was a felony (was it?) or because the offense involved minors?
I’m certainly not defending the scumbag but we all know how skewed reports of this nature can get in the Korean press. We don’t know the details of the case (though I would be curious) and if a judge in the US ruled the case to be “minor” (I’m guessing this means actually it was ruled a “misdemeanor” or something) then perhaps we should take a step back and perhaps the offender is a regular poster here and would like to comment. His teaching license could have been stripped for any number of reasons in this case as authorities of school districts are obliged to remove teachers when controversy exists if they can.
As far as immigration’s responsibility to keep a potential pervert like this out: well, if his case was reduced to a misdemeanor then the korean authorities (I should hope) would have no way to find out about such a crime. Misdemeanors aren’t supposed to ruin your life. If you shoplifted a pair of panties and got pinched back in 1990 when you were 18, it definitely shouldn’t keep you from pursuing a fruitful career today (in Korea or elsewhere).
For all we know this whole case is total horsewash. We all know how the press can change a few words and make a felony child molestation charge out of a youthful impropriety with an overzealous pubescent (who’s seen the opening scenes of “Wild Things” and not cringed at the thought of being in Matt Dillon’s character’s shoes? I mean, Neve Campbell… we’d ALL at least think about it.) And in case anyone has forgotten… a 14 year old Korean and 14 year old American are two completely different beasts. I would take the whole case with a grain of salt.
Jeez… that rambled a bit didn’t it…
sorry.
Can’t seem to find anything from the original CBS piece. Anybody got a link?
Let’s also not forget that these days taking a whiz outside after the football game will get you on a “sex offenders” list. Some form of judgment needs to be used when evaluating which “sex offender” is a real menace or not.
In St. Louis, I was always partial to urinating on a massive Richard Serra installation which was large, rusty slabs of iron planted in the ground next to a parking garage. That Serra sculpture was a real eyesore, and thanks to fans of the St. Louis Cardinals, it smelled bad too. But thanks to the public-art program of the City of St. Louis, the Serra sculpture allowed every man to be an art critic.
This is the second professor from Daejeon in the last 6 months who’s been caught lying about something. Not long ago, a pompous “call me Dr. I earned that much at least” windbag was teaching in an MA program at a Daejeon university. When the students found out otherwise and angrily confronted him about it, he ran like a thief in the night, and now he’s trolling Chinese universities with his “doctoral” education.
A bit selfish perhaps, but whatever the particulars of this guy’s case, I hope he leaves. The foreign community doesn’t need anymore of this sort of press. Then again, I suppose in the absence of anything particular, the media will inevitably come up with vague stories on the general depravity of us barbarians from time to time.
In the US, laws on sexual conduct are enforced strictly, and rightly so. I can’t help but think that a similar case with a Korean teacher here would be completely overlooked, and the guy would never have such a record in the first place.
Here’s what I was looking for:
http://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_national/224984.html
SMOE let a convicted child “toucher” after just 3 months.
Quote: “…the teacher regularly molested students by letting female students sit on his lap, touching their breasts and kissing their cheeks, while in charge of a sixth-grade class in 2005.”
What’s the big difference? The SMOE teacher was Korean.
Fencerider wrote (#8):
It sounds like you are defending him.
Anyway, I think the legal age of consent should be lowered to sixteen. If a person is responsible enough to drive, then they should be responsible enough to decide who they go to bed with.
Thirty years ago sixteen may have been an age of innocence, but no longer. An 18-year-old guy shouldn’t be sent to prison because he was seduced by a willing 16-year-old sexpot.
Even in the US, I think fourteen is still green, but sixteen is ripe and ready to go.
Whatever turns you on…
This demonstrates so many things that are wrong with education in Korea. First of all, obviously no one did a proper employment background check. Secondly, were it not for the ‘Any waegook can teach anything’ attitude in Korea, he wouldn’t be working with children at his university. In what other country can professors teach children during the summer? Why would someone skilled at teaching adults automatically be a good teacher for children? I guess that when such a mercenary attitude prevails anything goes.
Hopefully this guy will wise up and bugger off. Once he’s outed – and it shouldn’t take long – I suspect his life is going to get very unpleasant.
If he was a public school teacher, he almost certainly does not hold a PhD. I wonder how he managed to finagle the title of professor and its E-1 visa.
This guy has been red flagged at immigration and his contract won’t be renewed by his employers. So from immigration’s point of view this problem will sort itself out.
In Korea, age of consent is 13.
A;; one needs is an MA for an E-1. Some Immigrations insist that the MA be in the subject one is teaching, but most don’t.
Let’s get things straight. First of all, I was not offering the girls money, they where harassing me for money and came up and surrounded me at my desk. They wanted me to touch there legs in exchange for a dollar, but I refused. One then picked up my hand and placed it on her knee and I just gave her a single pat; she then harassed me for a dollar until I gave it to her. Another girl wanted me to touch her stomach, but I absolutely refused. These girls went out bragging about what went on, so later a friend of theirs came into my room and nagged me for a dollar for almost the entire period, constantly sticking our her hand. I finally held out a dollar, but shook her outstretched hand while giving it to her, so I momentarily touched her hand. Another girl asked if I ever had sex in water; I simply replied (trying to be funny) “I don’t have sex because my mommy would spank me”. This was the extent of my so called criminal behavior, and it all happened on the same day. I had a very weak public defender and was convicted of three counts of what is called “Child Annoyance and Molestation” though I neither actually annoyed, nor molested them. It’s just small potatoes, and I certainly did not switch to an E-1 visa during any grace period to avoid a criminal background check. I applied at 40 universities with one bulk emailing and just took the first job that was offered because it was close to where I live. These idiotic excuses for sex crimes happened nearly 12 years ago. They were only misdemeanors, and have since been expunged. An expungement means I can legally claim I was never convicted at all. I’m going to contact the legal attaché soon to see why expunged convictions are being disseminated. Tell me this: If I have some abnormal thing for kids, then why have I been working at universities for virtually my entire time in Korea, long before criminal background checks were required to work at hagwons. Incidentally, to teach at a university as a visiting professor, one only needs an M.A. or even just a B.A. Such people are not true professors, and Ph.D.s who come here and get hired in English departments as “real” professors make twice the salary and are put on tenure track. All of this is just typical bull-shit exaggerations made by reporters trying to make a name for themselves. Immigration is, in fact, trying to deport me — so they are taking action — and I in turn, have hired an attorney and am filing “Formal Objection to Deportation”as is my right.
“CBS said due to a porous legal net and Immigration’s failure to properly manage the foreigners,”
Yes, Immigration sucks but does CBS properly manage its news? I think NOT!
“a foreigner inviting controversy concerning sexual abuse is openly standing in the classroom.”
I doubt this guy is inviting controversy and maybe the guy should try sitting in the classroom.
If this guy never had to submit a criminal record check as an E – 1 visa holder, then how the hell does CBS know anything?
“What’s the big difference? The SMOE teacher was Korean.”
Not sure what your point was. As stated in the link that you quoted, Korean parents demanded an ousting of that teacher.
#19
The age of consent in Korea is 19 (Korean age). This info came from the Seoul Metro Police Snitch a while back and was a topic of discussion on eslcafe.
….I meant to say “Seoul Metro Police Snitch Board,” not to be confused with the hagwon for snitches that made the news a few weeks back.
Also, I know different info is on the web about age of consent in Korea. Wikipedia lists it as 13 in Korea. But I assume Korean Keystone Kops are a better source than Wikipedia. And that is scary.
#15,
“Anyway, I think the legal age of consent should be lowered to sixteen. If a person is responsible enough to drive, then they should be responsible enough to decide who they go to bed with.”
…and 17 year-olds can enlist in the American armed forces.
In any case, I wouldn’t be surprised if setting the age of consent to 18 is less about protecting teens than discouraging them from having sex with one another.
PS. What was the second most popular locally produced movie in South Korea in 2004?
#5 Vietnam did backfire on Gary Glitter.
#15 ‘An 18-year-old guy shouldn’t be sent to prison because he was seduced by a willing 16-year-old sexpot.’ Definitely not, and in contrast a 39-year-old letch with an 18-year-old ought to be, or maybe I’m just sour that I never dealt with circumstances like these when I was 39?
I didn’t use Wikipedia as a source.
But they didn’t get what they demanded, did they? Slap on the wrist, then able to continue teaching, and nary a demand for background checks on anyone else.
Soondae (#25),
You should come to Korea because it is fairly easy for a 40-year-old guy, or even a 45-year-old guy, to hook up with a college student here.
If a girl is at the age of consent, and is not mentally impaired, then it is her business who she goes to bed with, even if it is a 60-year-old guy. Afterall, it is just sex.
However, I do not like to see old men with young women, either, not because of jealousy, but because I hate to imagine some fat old fart with a young girl with taut buttocks.
Anyway, if a 50-year-old guy fell in love and married a 20-year-old girl, then I would feel little or no pity for him if she later dumped him because he should have known the risks.
#26, I didn’t mean to imply you used wikipedia, it’s just an example of a source that quotes an age of consent as being 13.
Maybe, for academic reasons only, Brendon Carr and clear up the question.
Are you sure that the job title does not matter? My former university employer used to give foreign teachers E-1s until Immigration changed regulations back in the mid-90s, restricting E-1s to foreigners holding the title of professor. Foreigners employed as language teachers at universities were bumped down to E-2. It is possible for master’s degree holders to be given the title of professor.
See comment #22:
http://www.rjkoehler.com/2009/01/12/convicted-american-child-molestor-teaching-as-professor-in-daejeon-cbs/#comment-208151
It didn’t seem to matter at any of the unis I’ve worked at. All the E1s had MAs, but only one(?) held the title of professor. Anyway, it’s not Immigration that bestows the title of professor, it’s the uni. There are plenty of examples out there of people with the title “professor” who aren’t actually professors.
It’s possible to be a foreign language professor. I currently work with 2 Japanese, 1 German, and 1 Chinese professor. There are others I work with that have an E1, but I don’t know what their job titles are.
Even if the girl is under the age of consent, is mentally impaired and a 60-year old guy forces her to have sex for years, apparently that’s okay, too.
The reason why Korea does not have strict pre-existing laws concerning sex offenders compared to the US is because such offenses were pretty rare to begin with. In the past, Korea was much more of the traditional collective society where personal privacy was minimal. Everyone knew everyone else’s business. In such an environment, it is more difficult to get away with such deeds.
As Korean society becomes more and more Westernized and individualistic, expect such crimes to increase in frequency. Laws will naturally evolve to confront this new reality. All you aspiring felons, intensely interested in the current state of statutory laws in Korea and such, will have to look elsewhere.
This is relevant to my interests.
I thought this one might bring you out of hiding.
“The reason why Korea does not have strict pre-existing laws concerning sex offenders compared to the US is because such offenses were pretty rare to begin with…”
http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/29/the-oldest-profession-in-choson/
Sometimes I can’t believe this place. The actual subject of the actual article comes in and posts the exact truth of the incident, something rarely seen with any news article much less here at the Marmot’s Hole, and all the rest of you completely ignore him and just keep discussing international age of consent laws like a bunch of old pedophiles-in-training.
And I see a normal pure-Korean-history vs. debauchery-is-eternal argument is just about to start heating up.
There is truly nothing that will shake you guys from off of your preferred soap boxes, is there?
Personally I’d like to thank The Guy in question for stopping by and shedding some more light on the situation. And if you can stomach reading the 180 comments that will probably be at the end of this article, please come back and post an update. I’m really interested to see how Immigration and Korean law handles this situation.
“The reason why Korea does not have strict pre-existing laws concerning sex offenders compared to the US is because such offenses were pretty rare to begin with…”
http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/…..in-choson/
Maybe I wasn’t clear.
I’ve had numerous white and black girls (some former girlfriends…some just friends) who mentioned about being sexually assaulted in the past by an uncle, or a step-father, or a distant male cousin, etc. This sort of stuff seems fairly commonplace in American society. An older male figure who is supposed to be a trusted person, but who abused that trust, and tried to take advantage of young girls at a vulnerable age. A non-family member, such as a male teacher falls into that category also. This sort of stuff is virtually unheard of in Korean-American communities.
This is an example what I meant by “sex offense”, but you seem to be attempting to conflate it, in an obtuse manner, with prostitution in order to prove some non-existent point.
Look at the bright side — at least you don’t pay for the bandwidth.
Maybe you need to re-examine your taste in women. Seriously. I personally know only a few women who were raped and none by a relative. Doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen, but if you want to prove that incest rape is “fairly commonplace” in American society, you’ll need reliable statistics, not personal anecdotes.
#22:
“Let’s get things straight. First of all, I was not offering the girls money, they where harassing me for money and came up and surrounded me at my desk. They wanted me to touch there legs in exchange for a dollar, but I refused.”
I hope this was the product of haste because it sure doesn’t look like the writing of a professor. At any rate – assuming you’re the real guy and not a fake who’s fooling with us – your idiotic unprofessionalism in California is coming back to haunt you and I can’t say I have much sympathy.
Has anyone ever noticed that these drug and sex offence stories seem to break when the school is on vacation?
No students are around.
No classes to teach.
No grades to hand in.
I get the idea that the schools seem to know about these problems in advance and pull some strings to keep the crap from hitting the fan when it would count.
Maybe you need to re-examine your taste in women. Seriously.
Perhaps. BTW, Sonagi, you never responded to a earlier comment of mine in a different thread about if I can come visit you in Virginia (provided that I am unattached, of course). It was a thread that had something to do with flabby buttocks or some such nonsense.
But seriously, my personal taste in women, or anything else for that matter, may indeed be poor. But I find myself bothered by the implications of this statement on general principle. It’s kinda like saying it was the girl’s fault that she got sexually assaulted in the first place. These women that I mentioned were naive teenagers or younger when such incidents happened so I think it is highly unfair to suggest that the “quality” of these women had something to do with the assaults.
I personally know only a few women who were raped and none by a relative. Doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen, but if you want to prove that incest rape is “fairly commonplace” in American society, you’ll need reliable statistics, not personal anecdotes.
I will concede and rescind the broad generalization. But as I mentioned before, such incidents are unheard of in the Korean-American community. Most KAs are still stuck in the stand-still time warp of the late 60s, early 70s, and retain the older Korean social norms of that era. So for me to hear about it even once was kind of a jarring culture shock.
I wont comment on ever-rapidly changing Korean society itself because I do not know how things are in this regard at the present time.
NetizenKim, I would guess that it is unheard of in Korean society because no one wants to hear that it happens. It was that way in American society way back when. It is naturally easier for any person in a position of trust and authority to carry out these assaults. This is why claims against such people are additionally difficult. Questions such as, “Did I do something to deserve this?” or “Who will believe my word against his?” are bound to discourage the victim. For an easy example of how Korea does not know how to deal with crimes like this or even acknowledge them as serious crimes, I would refer you to the court decision which let the mulitple family offenders off with a slap on the wrist because they had been the caregivers to their mentally handicapped prey. http://briandeutsch.blogspot.com/2008/11/extended-family-members-look-after.html
The statistics on incestuous child abuse are way overblown, but even if its rare, it’s a truly horrible thing to happen to anyone.
I,for one, am not ready to vindicate “the guy” based on his story alone. Child molesters rarely feel they’ve done anything wrong and are really good at rationalizing their behavior. I’m not sure the guy is guilty of anything either.
What are the Koreans going to do about someone convicted of being part of an illegal protest over nuclear power plants or caught up in a gambling raid at the local Moose lodge? Does a clean criminal record preclude misdemeanor gambling, disturbing the peace and other minor things which might have happened many years before?
Ahh, good point. I shall click an ad for you Robert.
Dear The Guy,
Hiring an attorny is a waste of your money. Even though in the your expungement means you can legally claim you were never convicted at all, this is Korea.
Immigration doesn’t need a strong legal foothold to boot you out. Your University doesn’t need too many excuses to fire you either. You will be rail roaded out of work and out of the country.
Can you afford to go through the entire legal process required to reinstate your visa and employment status only to be at the mercy of a court that would love to make an example of you?
You hired a lousy lawyer last time, what makes you think you can find a half decent Korean lawyer who will take up your plight?
You should consider yourself lucky one of your students didn’t suddenly remember “teacher touching me”, because then you’d really be up shit creek.
I hope your a decent man who has lots of good Korean people around you who know that you are a decent man and who will vouch or battle for you.
If they are right and within their means they will make a loud example of you. If not, you will be quietly pushed through the door.
My daughter is 11. At my house, the age of consent is not 13.
#47 dez, I do know how hard it is for a woman who’s been sexually assaulted to tell people, especially other men, that she had been assaulted. I’ve experienced this firsthand in my personal past experience. A gf of mine (she wasn’t Korean) had an incident in her workplace. She got cornered and her body touched improperly by a male contractor at her workplace.
She told me about this later and didn’t know what to do. When I told her she should call the police and file a report she refused. I couldn’t understand why. She didn’t want to deal with the inevitable interrogation by a cop, who’d most likely be a male. Only after a lengthy persuasion was I able to convince her to talk to her manager, so that he could vouch for her, and talk to the police. The cop who arrived, was an older man with daughters of his own, and turned out to be sympathetic. The contractor was eventually terminated from his position.
As a guy, I admit there’s many things I still don’t fully comprehend what exactly goes through a woman’s head when she experiences something like this. But I do know that women are very reluctant to come public with sexual assault claims, for various reasons, even if it happened with a total stranger, as in my gf’s case.
So I do agree with your argument up to a point. But even in a place like Korea, where face-saving is a always big concern for everyone, stories like this will get told to somebody eventually and stuff does come out into the open.
Netizen Kim wrote (#41):
Maybe, you need to talk to more Korean prostitutes, Mr. Netizen. I remember, at least, one girl who worked in one of the bars outside Camp Humphrey’s in the late 1970s telling me how her uncle had raped her. And I even think she said something about an older cousin. I also remember hearing a couple of other stories, but I cannot remember when, where, or who told me the stories.
Also, I have had my fair share of girlfriends in the United States, but I only remember one ever telling me that she had once been raped, and she didn’t mention anything about it being a family member. With so many American women confessing to you, you must have a special way of winning women’s trust.
Your claim that Korea did not used to have sex offenders reminds me of other Korean claims I have heard over the years, including that Korea did not have prostitutes before the Japanese and Americans came and that Korea did not have homosexuals.
Maybe, the real reason you did not hear much about incest and sexual assaults in Korea until just recently is that it has only been recently that Korean women have been able to find their voices in Korea’s male-dominated society.
I suspect that sexual assault, rape, homosexuality, and incest have been a part of Korean society long before King Sejong. The only difference now is that victims are starting to come forward.
I don’t care how male-dominated Korean society is or was in the past. If a Korean girl got assaulted by anyone, family member or no, she is not going to tell her mother and father, brother or sister? A friend? A Korean father is not going to be angry if his daughter gets raped or something? My own father, as old fashioned as he is and as much as he is a product of the male-dominated Korean society, as you put it, once fashioned a homemade rifle because he wanted to kill a pastor whom he thought (mistakenly) fooled around with my sister, you idiot.
Your statements reveal something about your own personal view about the basic fundamental humanity of Koreans which transcend any cultural quirks. You, sir, are a bigot and do not deserve any respect from Koreans.
The Guy wrote (#20)
A bunch of middle school girls were harassing you for money, and you only paid them to get them to stop forcing you to touch them? Is that your story?
Anyway, even that story shows inappropriate behavior on your part and suggests that your behavior before the incident most likely led to the incident.
I had an Algebra teacher in the ninth grade who flirted with the girls in class all the time. If a girl asked a question in class, he would go over to her desk, kneel down, and put his arm around her shoulder while he very patiently and sweetly explained the problem to her. If one of the guys in the class asked a question, he would give some quick, snide response from the front of the class and then continue on with his flirting. His name was Mr. Calvert, and all the guys in the class hated him. This happened in 1970, when such behavior did not send up many red flags.
Men do a lot of stupid things, especially in their teens and early twenties (I know I did), but most grow out of it. I hope you have grown out of it, too.
Teachers are supposed to protect kids from their instincts.
…By that, I mean the kids’ instincts.
Netizen Kim (#54) wrote:
It sounds like your father was the idiot since he almost killed an innocent man.
#58 uh, yeah…whatever. go back to make your retarded songs about dokto or whatever you wash-up old loser.
To explain my two previous posts…Children are naturally curious and impulsive. Adults in a position of trust are responsible to educate kids on what is appropriate and inappropriate behavior.
#40,
Yes, this could be very interesting. After all, his records were expunged, which essentially means that the courts found that it was in the best interest of justice to reverse his conviction, i.e. no crime was committed.
http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/1203.4a.html
#40,
Yes, this could be very interesting. After all, his records were expunged, which essentially means that the courts found that it was in the best interest of justice to reverse his conviction, i.e. no crime was committed.
http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/1203.4a.html
I had a teacher in the 10th-12th grades who worked with students on intensive projects. We got a bunch of Macintoshes, which only the students knew how to use. He would lean over us boys to see the screen, and in so doing he would frequently press his genitals into our shoulders. He also was fond of rubbing those shoulders, uninvited. We didn’t like it much.
Not a good start for someone teaching English, aye?
I was E-7 for the two years I taught. The 2nd year I was 초빙교수 (invited professor), with an MA, but still had an E-7. Go figure…
No, not really. Go back and read some accounts of the (few) times women have come forward. Much like some Muslim countries these days, it was the woman who was stigmatized and shunned, not the abuser. Rape brought shame and stimga to the FAMILY as a whole, not just the woman who was raped.
The older sister of an ex was put into a mental institution by her father because she was raped and “brought shame to the family” and was now “dirty” and “no one would want to marry her now”. He put her in the institution to get her out of the way. Once they moved to a different neighbourhood, they could act as if nothing happened. Yeah, dad sure stuck up for her daughter and showed how angry he was at the rapist. And this was only going back 15 years.
Look at cases like those middle school girls down south who were gang-raped by dozens of boys over the span of months. Who were the police angry with? The girls. The boys got off scott-free.
The fact that Korean women are only now starting to find their voices and speak up about such previously taboo subjects, never mind facing the negative reactions thrown their way, is long overdue.
“This is an example what I meant by “sex offense”, but you seem to be attempting to conflate it, in an obtuse manner, with prostitution in order to prove some non-existent point.”
No, I was referring to the comment section in which I referred to something I had read in a Wikipedia article:
“Paul Michaut, a French physician writing in 1893, described Korea as a country where “[p]ederasty is general, it is part of the mores; it is practiced publicly, in the street, without the least reprobation.” He associated its prevalence with that of syphilis which was likewise general.”
I doubt that Dr. Michaut had an immense depth of knowledge on Korean mores (and wonder what sampling of the population he tested to conclude that most Koreans had the disease), so I’d take his observations with a grain of salt.
In any case, given that the age of consent was probably very low in France at that time, I’m guessing he wasn’t alluding to teenage brides but child prostitution. Child prostitution is a form of child abuse.
Netizen Kim,
I take everything Mr. Bevers says with two grains of salt, as he seems to only ever say negative things about Korea. But please listen to yourself. Korea never had sex offenders? Oh really? Because of their “basic fundamental humanity,” as you put it? If anything, having a society free of familial sex offense would make Korea very different from the rest of humanity, and as much as you may like to believe that’s true, I simply don’t think it is.
You say that such incidents were “unheard of” in Korea. That part I believe. But just because you’re not hearing about something doesn’t mean it isn’t happening. I have to agree with Bevers on this one.
#63,
That’s very creepy.
My uncle was deaf in one ear because a teacher had struck him on the side of the head with a log when he was just a little kid. He was struck so hard that his ear had bled. He never told my grandparents what had happened…but he eventually confronted the teacher years after my grandfather had died.
…I forgot how he confronted the teacher…The guy was running for office. My uncle showed up to the assembly and told everyone present why he would never vote for that man.
Netizen Kim….traditionally, Korean women carried a small silver, very sharp, knife, for use in the event that they were sexually assaulted. To cut off the attacker’s nuts? No, to kill themselves, for the shame would be so unbearable, and they would be so unmarriageable that they might as well just die. Similarly, there were honour killings around the time of the Korean war, of women who had been impregnated, whether through rape or prostitution. Or how about the fact that raped women often had to marry their attackers until as recently as the 1970s?
I know that these are not examples of incestuous behaviour, but they do point to the wholesale disenfranchisement of women, and obvious proof of deviant behaviour on the part of Korean males. It’s not a huge leap of faith to imagine that incest and familial rape never happened.
And that isn’t a criticism of Korea by the way. More an observation that westerners find it reprehensible, but we have the luxury of our societies having moved on from close knit agrarian communities, with their habit of not talking about certain things, a lot earlier than Korea. So eventually, women stop being mere commodities.
As others have noted, Korean-Americans of both sexes may be more reluctant to speak up about sexual abuse compared to assimilated Americans in a society where people tell anything and everything on TV, in books, and now on the web. My remark about your taste in women was simply a sarcastic retort on your statistically improbable high number of acquaintances who’ve experienced sexual violence by a relative. It was a jab at your use of personal anecdotes to support a generalization, not a judgment of the women’s mores although I can see how it would be interpreted that way.
Sure, there’s not much privacy in the old rural villages of Korea, but the Joseon was a slave society lets remember, with at least 30% of its people enslaved.
http://www.britannica.com/blackhistory/article-24156
You can bet that slaves, lacking basic human rights, were mistreated and abused sexually and in all sorts of other ways.
I’d bet that the more heirarchically structured a society is, the fewer rights people on the bottom will enjoy, including the right to be free of sexual abuse.
Nobody talks about it, because the abused lack those rights and everyone knows it. In otherwords, not only will nobody listen, but they’ll face further punishment from the abuser.
The Chosun was a very rigidly structured heirarchical society and no doubt had more than its share of abuse, sexual and otherwise.
netizen kim-
coincidentally, this recently came up as a discussion topic in the teacher’s class at the school i teach at in seoul. this class is attended by 3 female and 1 male teachers, all middle-aged or older and all (but one) quite conservative. at the outset, each teacher shared their opinions on sexual assault in general, but when i asked about sexual assault in korea, none of them spoke up. this was a topic i was quite curious about since i have 3 (non-korean) friends who have been assaulted by korean men, 2 of those in broad daylight with several onlookers. i continued to push the issue, and while they remained reluctant, by the end of the class each of female teachers had come to agreement with one another that sexual assault, and rape in particular, was perhaps the most common and definitely the least reported throughout korean history, at least to the extent that they knew. one of the teachers explained that this was because sexual assault was the most shameful crime, not for the attacker, but for the victim. in the very rare case that women came forward, their situation nearly always became worse for it. men were rarely punished or even addressed by any sort of authority. at worst, they had to move, though that was usually by choice. women on the other hand, could almost certainly count on being shunned by the community and perhaps even by their families. often, they were ‘encouraged’ to commit suicide in order to reduce the shame and stress on the rest of the family. one teacher actually referenced the case down south a few years ago were a group of school girls were repeatedly assaulted by several of their male classmates and the girls were publicly berated and browbeaten in a charge led by the mothers of the accused. in any event, it was certainly one of the most spirited discussions i’ve had with that group, and definitely one of the most interesting for me, since all of them usually avoid any conversation path that might lead to them saying something negative about any aspect of korea. the male teacher for his part, steadfastly maintained that he didn’t think sexual assault was a problem in korean society.
@72:
Sonagi, you really don’t know what the hell you’re talking about.
Korean-American girls will tell every member of their families and all their friends if someone even LOOKS at them the wrong way. Where do you get your information from? I am seeing some serious false stereotypes on this board of Korean and Korean-American females and their supposed unwillingness to come forward with their experiences of sexual abuse from Western ex-pats who seem to be living in the past and cling to old stereotypes of the Korean past….as in decades past. This may have been the case before but not now; one of my Gen X ex-girlfriends DID tell me about how a schoolboy living next to her did rape her….but that was the previous generation and even if she was a Gen X-er, her mindset was based on the values of PREVIOUS generations. These days (with the Gen Y who were born after 1975) if a guy were to even WINK at a girl and she didn’t like it, her parents, her brothers, and all her friends would know about it.
I live in one of the most conservative Korean-American communities in the US (words can’t describe HOW conservative), and I can tell you that girls (and boys) here are taught by their parents to always speak about any improper behavior by ANYONE toward themselves. You’re presenting stereotypes of Koreans from the past and applying it to a current generation that apparently you know nothing about.
Sonagi, I understand. Absence of evidence is not equivalent to evidence of absence. Gotcha.
BTW, since we’re on the topic, I’d like to ask you your thoughts on a rather peculiar phenomenon which I find both fascinating and difficult to fathom. I’m talking about female teachers having sex with younger male students. It’s like becoming a trend in the US nowadays.
http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2009/01/south_shore_tea.html?p1=Well_MostPop_Emailed4
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28622776/
http://www.theday.com/re.aspx?re=15e91468-2113-493e-9811-86ec70e417d5
This is also something which is unheard of in Korean-American communities but seems more frequent in the larger American society.
Naturally, I am asking you because you are a woman with knowledgeable experience in education. So I’d like to pick your brain about this particular variant of pedophilia-pedagogy. What most surprising to me is that often these women are quite attractive and would have no problem attracting regular guys. Why take the extreme risk and jeopardize their careers on flings with much younger male students? What is going through these women’s heads?
’tis the season to treat your students like landmines and always keep the doors open when you teach
JK, what is the name of this community you live in? Thanks!
so NetizenKim, in order to defend your claim that there’s no rape in Korea you… talk about female teachers in the US having sex with underage male students?
I think you’re missing the point. First of all, nobody here is claiming that America is a pure land of innocence where no child is abused. We freely admit that child abuse is a problem, all over the world, INCLUDING in your sacred Korea. You’re the only one who is saying that sexual crime is a problem everywhere in the world EXCEPT in your sacred Korea.
Don’t you see how ludicrous this is? No matter how Korean a Korean group of Koreans are, they’re still human. Humans do bad things to each other, even Korean humans. Your claim that rape, child abuse, and other sexual crimes are actions caused by the pollution of a pure innocent Korean land with the evil evil foreigner is just WRONG, because rape, child abuse, and other sexual crimes have been happening in Korea for just as long as they’ve been happening in other countries, which is since before recorded human history.
People suck; they do horrible things to each other. Korea is no exception.
Your denial (and the denial of many other Koreans) is a big problem because the victims of such crimes feel additional pressure from you and others like you to NOT report their crimes, because such things aren’t supposed to happen in Korea. Therefore they feel more pressure to keep quiet so that they don’t disturb your (incorrect) view that Korea is a pure land free from sexual crime.
So your stupid and wrong view, combined with the stupid and wrong views of several million other Koreans like you, causes pain, grief, suicide, and actually helps rapists and pedophiles get away with their crimes. STOP DOING IT.
@ mateomiguel: not sure if you are a “native speaker” of English or not, but it seems to me that you have perhaps misunderstand Netizenkim’s last comment (#76).
“so NetizenKim, in order to defend your claim that there’s no rape in Korea you… talk about female teachers in the US having sex with underage male students?”
it doesn’t seem to me that he is trying to do that at all. Firstly, his point initially was that incest/rape within families is/was rare in Korean/Korean-American communities. Secondly, his point about female teachers in the US etc was not to negate anybody else’s point; I believe he was trying to introduce a new strand to this thread of children being victimized/sexualized by adults.
My wife said that when she was a high school girl in Korea, it was common to see men around the campus in cars, waiting to expose their block and tackle to girls on their way to school. She and her friends used to call these guys “supermen,” perhaps something to do with their underwear always being visible.
Netizen Kim (#76) wrote:
Do you also find it as “fascinating and difficult to fathom” as male teachers having sex with younger female students?
Since sexual equality has been promoted in the US for quite a few years now, it seems only natural that that same equality would extend to student-teacher relationships. If a male teacher could find some of his female students to be sexually attractive, then why couldn’t a female teacher also find some of her male students to be sexually attractive?
As I said before, Korea was and still is a male-dominated society, so in Korea one only hears about Korean male teachers having sexual affairs with their female students, but in a few years, when Korean women start gaining more on the equality scale, I think we also will start hearing about Korean female teachers having sexual affairs with their male students.
One thing that has already changed in Korea is that it is now becoming fairly common for older Korean women to date younger Korean men. Also, I think many people here have already heard about Korea’s “Host Bars,” where older Korean women go to flirt with and have sex with young Korean men. That is a sign that Korean women are starting to catch up with their male counterparts.
The Guy….”This was the extent of my so called criminal behavior, and it all happened on the same day.”
Okay, so who accused you of molestation? Why did they accuse of it? How did the charge come about?
JK, DC Koreans are conservative?
why are you a liberal, then?
your community is a community of suckage.
Mr. Cho and Mr. Cho.
Ah, the dreaded “Burberry Man”. I don’t doubt every Korean girl in middle or high school has had at least some peripheral encounter with such a perv. Even these days. My uni students still mention it happening to them. Hell, there are guys in their cars parked at the Ehwa gates playing a game of “handball” as the ladies walk by their cars. I’ve chased off at least two myself. Knocking on the window just got them out of there, only to return the next day. Getting out my camera phone and taking photos of them, their car and license plate got them out of there a little more permanently… most likely only got them to move on to Sookmyung or Seoul Women’s Uni.
Netizen Kim:
Oh rilly?
In re Marriage of Kim, 208 Cal. App. 3d 364
Factual Background
The child involved in this matter, G., was born in the United States in October 1977 to appellant John Kim and respondent Kook Ja Kim, both of whom are from Korea. Their marriage was dissolved in May 1979. After custody of G. was awarded to Kim, he took G. to Korea to live with his parents. Kim returned to the United States in June of 1979, followed respondent to her place of employment, and shot her three times. This rendered her paralyzed from the waist down and she has since been confined to a wheelchair. After the shooting, Kim returned to Korea and stayed there until 1980, when, using false identification, he returned to the United States with G.
On August 10, 1981, in response to a complaint from G.’s baby-sitter, Kim was arrested by the Brea Police Department for physical and sexual abuse of his daughter. 1 Once the police ascertained Kim’s true identity, he was arrested for the attempted murder of respondent. He was found guilty of assault with a deadly weapon and was sentenced to state prison. After his arrest, G. was placed in a foster home where she remained until December 1983 at which time she was returned to respondent.
The police report indicates that he had beaten G. with a wet towel and stick. He also had inserted his fingers into her vagina and kissed it. He explained to the police that this was necessary to clean his daughter and his actions were “part of his fatherly love.”
PEOPLE v. LIM, 2004 Cal. App. Unpub. LEXIS 11329
According to Jenny’s father, who had a job with Samsung in San Diego County and was testifying with the help of a qualified Korean interpreter, he brought Jenny, her mother and nine-year-old brother here from Korea in June 2000. The family met Lim through their church where he was a deacon. Lim had a school in his home where he tutored many of the children from the church in English. In the fall of 2000, the family sent Jenny’s brother to Lim’s school. After two days, Jenny’s mother removed her brother from the school because she did not like Lim yelling at her son, and she thought Lim was too strict. At some point Jenny’s brother returned to Lim for tutoring.
Then, in February or March 2001, Jenny started at Lim’s school in a program for younger children. Father became worried after Jenny’s first day at the school when Mother told him that Jenny had told her Lim had improperly touched her during class and she had seen his “pepper” or penis. 5 Mother talked to the mother of another child in Jenny’s class who suggested children might lie about such misconduct. Mother disagreed because Jenny had provided too much detail to be making the matter up. However, because they were not sure whether Lim had committed such misconduct, Mother sent Jenny back to his school. She dressed Jenny in pants instead of a skirt and sent her later in the day when the older children would be there after regular school classes, thinking that with more students present, Lim could Thnot “do that bad thing” again.
Father or Mother then asked Lim to come to their home. When Lim was seated in the living room with Father and Mother, Father asked how Lim could do that “to a little person, my daughter[?]” Lim replied that he could not talk and repeatedly said he was sorry and asked for forgiveness. Father did not inquire into the details, but because Lim had kneeled and asked repeatedly for forgiveness, Father eventually sent him home. Before leaving, Lim told Father what he had done was very wrong and admitted “everything.”
Father explained they let Lim leave without reporting the matter to the police because he wanted to protect their daughter from letting “people to know about what happened to [her] . . .,” 6 and Lim was a deacon of their church and the pastor was involved. Additionally, there were lots of Korean children and parents from the church who depended on Lim. Although Father thought the fact Lim had made Jenny touch his sexual organ was a serious problem, he “felt that could be forgiven at least once. . . .” The decision to send Jenny back to Lim’s classes was difficult, but Father did not know of any other place where Korean children were tutored in English and mathematics, and Lim had promised he would teach her with the junior high and high school children.
Father explained that it was a shameful thing in Korean culture for a child to be the victim of sexual assault because “pureness of all a person is very important in Korea. . . .” If people know about such a matter they point fingers at the victim and their family and say negative things; it is a “painful” situation.
Shin v. Sunriver Preparatory Sch., Inc., 199 Ore. App. 352
Over the next two months, Wheeler noticed that plaintiff’s depression seemed to deepen. Her parents were divorced, and plaintiff talked on the phone with her mother in Korea almost nightly. Afterward, she was often tearful and would comment on how much she missed her mother. After plaintiff talked to her father, Shin, however, she became upset, told Wheeler that she hated him, and withdrew. Wheeler sought insight from plaintiff’s best friend, Jessica, about the behavior, and Jessica reported that there was “something going on” but would not be more specific.
Concerned, Wheeler engaged plaintiff in an evening of conversation, and plaintiff eventually disclosed that Shin had repeatedly beaten her, her brother, and her mother and had sexually abused plaintiff continually, beginning when she was four years old. Plaintiff feared that if any of this came out her mother’s life would be in danger and conveyed to Wheeler that things were “very different” in Korea. Shin had legal custody of plaintiff at the time.
That’s very impressive, dogbert. No really, very impressive. Thank you for sharing that with us….quite edifying stuff.
I still maintain that such incidents are quite rare in the KA community compared to American society writ large.
I found out about my girlfriends history of family sexual abuse via personal testimony, not an exhaustive search of the lexis-nexis legal database.
Dogbert (#86) Wrote:
A father and mother sent their young daughter back to study with a pedophile who had assaulted their daughter because they “did not know of any other place where Korean children were tutored in English and mathematics”? Truly Unbelievable!
I hope they, at least, asked for a discount.
Netizenkim:
From: http://www.apiwfsc.org/apiwfsc/statistics.html
From: http://www.nawho.org/atf/cf/%7BBC9650E6-A7EB-483F-A210-CC3E0D7445A6%7D/NAWHOSilentEpidemic.pdf
Most studies and reports on violence conducted in North America have neglected toinclude or identify Asian American women,particularly young Asian women,as a population at risk. As a result,federal,regional,and local law enforcement andcommunity health organizations have not prioritized Asian communities as targets forprevention education. These agencies are influenced by the prevailing myth that AsianAmericans are a “model minority” – economically and educationally successful,physicallyand mentally healthy,and well supported by strong family networks. Instead,culturally and economically prescribed constraints (e.g.,the need to “save face,” submission to patriarchal authority,social and economic dependence on perpetrators) prevent Asian American women from recognizing violations of their fundamental human right – to live in a violent-free environment,free from all forms of abuse. To understand the greater depth of the attitudes and experiences of Asian American women in relation to sexual violence (SV),intimate partner violence (IPV),and stalking,NAWHO commissioned a study to examine the true impact of these forms of violenceon Asian American communities. The study found that young Asian American women are suffering from violence at alarming rates and are facing SV,IPV,and stalking without strong systems for prevention,intervention,and support.
From: http://ldei.ugr.es/cddi/uploads/articulos/RheeETAL2003.pdf
1. It was far from exhaustive. And reported appellate cases are just the tip of the iceberg.
2. I’ve heard personal testimony of sexual abuse from two KA women myself.
KA shit stinks too. Just like the rest of us.
If such matters are not spoken of in any way in Korean society, how do you KNOW such incidents are quite rare. I maintain they are no less common, but less reported.
“I still maintain that such incidents are quite rare in the KA community compared to American society writ large.”
As long as such incidents are ignored/swept under the rug/dismissed as family matters, and, as a result, don’t get reported, I guess they will remain “quite rare.”
JK,
I think you’re being way too hard on Sonagi. She never claimed to have any special information about Korean-Americans. However, she has claimed to be a woman. Are you a woman?
To paraphrase the Korean, I think it’s fair to say that Korean-American women are first and foremost women. And the notion that women are often reluctant to come forward about sexual abuse, and often don’t, is found across a pretty wide swath of societies and cultures. This is not some echo from our peasant past: this is a phenomenon very much alive today.
So, as I alluded in my previous post, unless you think there is something unique about Korean-American women that makes them different from every other group of women on the planet, then it’s probably fair to say that sexual offense is all-too-often unreported among them.
“As long as such incidents are ignored/swept under the rug/dismissed as family matters, and, as a result, don’t get reported, I guess they will remain “quite rare.”
Someone sure seems to forget the story of the pervert who attacked a young girl in an elevator a year or two ago. The cops ignored her parents until they went to the press with the video from the security camera.
“This is also something which is unheard of in Korean-American communities but seems more frequent in the larger American society.”
Yes, just as prevalent, and yet, unheard of.
The last time I discussed the issue of child abuse with a Korean colleague, it was in the context of some consciousness raising event for child abuse in Korea. My colleage took pains to qualify the issue by characterizing it as an “international problem” so that it would not reflect poorly on Korea. Such defensiveness is misplaced.
It is NOT an “international problem.” It is not a Korean problem, an American problem or a Korean American problem. It is a human problem.
@78, wjk had my location right in #84.
wjk, I am not a “liberal.” You don’t have to be a liberal to know that George W. Bush was and is an idiot and will go down as one of the worst and most incompetent Presidents to ever occupy the White House. I voted for Obama, yes…but I count myself as a moderate Republican. In 2004 and 2008, I voted against George W. Bush because, objectively, I saw him as making some STUPID decisions and than arrogantly sticking by them just to prove he could stick to his chosen path, even if it was wrong.
I have been in various cities around the country that have Korean-Americans, and the one that most clings to the “old” traditional ways are the DC/northern VA Korean-Americans. Proper behavior and etiquette, ala the old Korean (and in a sense, the old southern American) ways, is the norm, and in the case of dating, you have to be EXTRA careful by your every behavior…even just saying hello to a Korean-American girl…until they get to know you.
As for politics, many of the guys who I categorize as the “half-FOBs” (my personal term for Korean people who came here between the ages of 12-15)served in the US Armed Forces, and they and their female havel-FOB friends almost always vote Republican; they are extremely patriotic people (to the US) who feel that because the US defended S. Korea that they OWE their votes to the Republicans (and how Republicans successfully foster the notion that they have sole ownership of American pride and patriotism and protection of S. Korea is beyond me).
I’m a twinkie myself (born in the US), and while I appreciate how assimilated these fellow half-FOB Korean-Americans are….I feel that they assimilated in the WRONG way….which is to the (Caucasian) Virginia way of thinking….which is very Republican. But as 2008 showed us, Virginia is changing finally….
Grandfalloon @93
No, I am not a woman (sorry to disappoint you). But what my point was in response to Songai when she wrote: “As others have noted, Korean-Americans of both sexes may be more reluctant to speak up about sexual abuse compared to assimilated Americans…”
My POINT was that today’s Gen Y (and younger) Korean-American girls (it goes without saying that the same applies to boys) are NOT like previous generations of Koreans; if someone even LOOKS at a girl the wrong way, she will tell everyone in her family and all her friends about it.
Today’s young Korean-American girls (maybe not as much in northern VA but definitely in NY and LA and Chicago) have NO problems talking about everything from how some guy hit on them or touched them inappropriately and they told the guy off, to how often they take a dump, to which guy gave them their best orgasm. Actually, to be honest, I find talking to Gen Y girls (those born between 1976-1986), as opposed to Generation X Korean-American girls (those born between 1965-1975) quite refreshing.
@JK:
CHILL. I used the word “MAY,” a very weak conditional expression in my sentence about Korean-American women being LESS likely to speak up about sexual abuse, a sentence offered up as a possible explanation for Netizen Kim’s anecdotal-based generalization about sexual abuse being commonplace in the US. My statement clearly did not mean that KA females rarely or never speak up. Direct testimony from Koreans in the two cases cited by Dogbert contradicts your assertion that KA women and girls would not hesitate to speak up. Granfalloon gets it right. As for Gen-X and Gen-Y, I believe Netizen Kim and probably most of his girlfriends are Gen-Xers.
In the US, personal, family, and community values vary widely. Some American women and girls would probably feel very uncomfortable about accusing a family member, pastor, or some other respected elder.
@Net Kim:
I don’t have a background in psychology, but from what I know of the Florida case, the woman used a different, younger, girlish voice when speaking with the teenaged boy. The number of publicized cases seems to be growing. I wonder if the numbers are increasing or if male victims are now more willing to speak up.
So… hot kinky 20-something high school teacher with a fetish for cooing like a Japanese schoolgirl and sucking on lollipops invites her teenage student to bang her like a door… and you call him a “victim”?
Tough break, kid. But take heart: even the deepest emotional scars heal with time.
Change of topic:
for Sonagi: “Good teachers” and inequality
THIS KOREAN ARTICLE says that a female teacher in China tore a hunk out of the cheek of a fifth grade student after she found out he came to school witout doing his homework.
The article says the teacher used both of her hands to grab the cheek of the boy and then lifted him off the ground until the hunk of cheek tore away. The angry teacher then picked up the hunk of cheek off the ground, stuck it back on to his face, and told him to go home. There is a picture with the article.
Thank God she didn’t grab for something lower.
@Linkd:
The author of the linked article hints in the conclusion that having a high IQ does not translate into oustanding teaching skills. First of all, we need to think about what is meant by a high IQ. Among the eight multiple intelligences established by Howard Gardner, only two – linguistic and logical-mathematical – factor heavily into academic success and are reliably measured in IQ tests. The most important kind of intelligence to be a good teacher is interpersonal, or people smarts.
I’m also curious as to why a higher IQ was positively associated with greater student achievement for male teachers but negatively associated for female teachers. There may be other overlooked variables.
An outstanding teacher cannot be quantified by an IQ. She can be identified through relevant and specific evaluation criteria. In the US, the children most in need of competent teachers are least likely to be taught by one. If DC and other struggling districts are to improve student performance, they must develop programs to recruit and retain high performing teachers. Looming layoffs in education mean a more favorable hiring market for school districts.
Sadly, the numbers can pretty much only continue to rise with the exploding population. Percentages, though, can go both up and down.
I just wonder what will happen in a few years when the gender imbalance in Asia (especially in China) starts to play itself out. I have a feeling things are going to get really ugly then.
@JK,
You make valid points, I guess. Nevertheless, I’m gonna cling to my old-fashioned belief that girls of any ethnicity tend to be reticent where rape and incest is involved. Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe women everywhere, or at least generation Y Korean Americans in large urban areas, are sending out mass text messages about rapes, abortions, AIDS tests, and anything else that I always thought people kept quiet about. Seems strange to me, but hey, I’m not a generation Y Korean American girl in a large urban area.
Sonagi wrote (#102),
I would guess that it is because men with high IQs are considered cool while women with high IQs are considered stuck-up bitches.
#96 ”and they and their female havel-FOB friends almost always vote Republican; they are extremely patriotic people (to the US) who feel that because the US defended S. Korea that they OWE their votes to the Republicans (and how Republicans successfully foster the notion that they have sole ownership of American pride and patriotism and protection of S. Korea is beyond me).
The US entered the Korean conflict during the Truman era, and Truman was a democrat (although it was intially prosecuted under the, at more than a few times, questionable leadership of Douglass MacArthur, a republican). When Eisenhouer (republican) was elected, he couldn’t end that stalemate quick enough. So why they feel they owe their votes to the republicans, who wanted nothing to do with that conflict, reflects on their poor knowledge of some very basic history. Unless, of course, they feel that the US should not have gone to Korea in the first place. Man, I wish this was the republican party stance of this present age.
One case of a perv being reported by one family does not immediately turn back decades of silence and indifference. Unless and until the police change the way they treat victims and the courts change how they rule against the perpetrators, this will be a crime suffered in silence and isolation for years more to come because the victims won’t come forward. Why come forward only to be victimized by the system?
@ pohang
“In the US, laws on sexual conduct are enforced strictly, and rightly so. I can’t help but think that a similar case with a Korean teacher here would be completely overlooked, and the guy would never have such a record in the first place”
Laws on sexual misconduct are strictly enforced in the US? Really? You might want to watch this video:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=866739408240639313
To Rybot
“Posted January 13, 2009 at 1:42 pm | Permalink
Dear The Guy,
Hiring an attorney is a waste of your money. Even though in the your expungement means you can legally claim you were never convicted at all, this is Korea.
Immigration doesn’t need a strong legal foothold to boot you out. Your University doesn’t need too many excuses to fire you either. You will be rail roaded out of work and out of the country.”
Yes you have a lot of insight. I was promised that if I can get the expungment properly listed with the FBI and reported as such by the American Embassy that I would be allowed back in and allowed to work again.
To hardyandtiny
“Posted January 14, 2009 at 12:24 pm | Permalink
The Guy….”This was the extent of my so called criminal behavior, and it all happened on the same day.”
Okay, so who accused you of molestation? Why did they accuse of it? How did the charge come about?”
To answer your question, another girl who had nothing to do with any of this had previously reported that I had touched her “butt.” I certainly did not; she was a special ed. student who wanted to pay me back for sending her to the Dean’s office. She knew one of the girls in the incident in question and complained of the incident to further get me into trouble. None of the girls in question in the actual incident resulting in convictions complained on their own, but were called into the office when the lying “butt” girl brought attention to it.
CALIFORNIA EXPUNGEMENT SUMMARY
California expungement law, Penal Code section 1203.4, permits someone convicted of a crime to petition the court to re-open the case, set aside the plea, and dismiss the case. In order for one to qualify for expungement he or she must have completed probation, paid all fines and restitution, not served a sentence in state prison for the offense, and not currently being charged with a crime. If the requirements are met for eligibility, a court may grant the petition if it finds that it would be in the interest of justice to do so. A successful expungement will not erase the criminal record. However, the finding of guilt will be changed to a dismissal. The petitioner can then honestly and legally answer to a question about his criminal history, with some exceptions, that he has not been convicted of that crime.
By Mathew K. Higbee, Esq.
Content on this page may be distributed free of charge and used in its entirety if properly cited with a link to this original source document.
PENAL CODE
SECTION 1203.4
Verified 1/18/08
1203.4 – Dismissal (expungement) of convictions where the defendant was granted probation.
1203.4(a) – Dismissal (expungement) of convictions where the defendant was not granted probation.
1203.45 – Dismissal (expungement) of juvenile convictions.
1203.4. (a) In any case in which a defendant has fulfilled the
conditions of probation for the entire period of probation, or has
been discharged prior to the termination of the period of probation,
or in any other case in which a court, in its discretion and the
interests of justice, determines that a defendant should be granted
the relief available under this section, the defendant shall, at any
time after the termination of the period of probation, if he or she
is not then serving a sentence for any offense, on probation for any
offense, or charged with the commission of any offense, be permitted
by the court to withdraw his or her plea of guilty or plea of nolo
contendere and enter a plea of not guilty; or, if he or she has been
convicted after a plea of not guilty, the court shall set aside the
verdict of guilty; and, in either case, the court shall thereupon
dismiss the accusations or information against the defendant and
except as noted below, he or she shall thereafter be released from
all penalties and disabilities resulting from the offense of which he
or she has been convicted,
To “The Guy”:
What’s the deal with the disproportionate number of photos of little girls on your blog?
It certainly seems to indicate that you have a fetish that you aren’t willing to admit to…even to yourself.
Care to explain that?
I think this is him on these websites:
http://pedophileophobia.com/
http://wikisposure.com/Mark_McDowell
http://j135jkc.blogspot.com/2008/05/megans-law-ab-488.html
110 Iceberg January 28, 2009 at 10:01 pm
To “The Guy”:
What’s the deal with the disproportionate number of photos of little girls on your blog?
It certainly seems to indicate that you have a fetish that you aren’t willing to admit to…even to yourself.
Care to explain that?
Ok, let me see. I have two female students that I taught out of hundreds, one is fat and clearly not in the least attractive (though very sweet); I have an Olympic gold medalist who was the most popular thing going back during the Atlanta Olympics, and the Wonder Girls who earned over 12 million dollars last year for being the most popular female singing group in Korean. How in hell does that add up to my having a fetish? Am I not allowed to even like girls at all, not even famous ones that everyone else likes? Now if I really did have a bunch of little girls, that would be a different story. I just like what is normal to like and what everyone else likes. That is not a crime, nor indicative of a fetish.
9 fencerider January 12, 2009 at 3:28 pm
I’m certainly not defending this [guy] but we all know how skewed reports of this nature can get in the Korean press. We don’t know the details of the case (though I would be curious) and if a judge in the US ruled the case to be “minor” (I’m guessing this means actually it was ruled a “misdemeanor” or something) then perhaps we should take a step back and perhaps the offender is a regular poster here and would like to comment.
Yes, the crime I was convicted of was a misdemeanor (CPC 647.6) – no judge had to rule it to be so. That’s was the criminal charge was.
As far as immigration’s responsibility to keep a potential pervert like this out: well, if his case was reduced to a misdemeanor then the Korean authorities (I should hope) would have no way to find out about such a crime. Misdemeanors aren’t supposed to ruin your life.
You are right, they aren’t, but if it’s a sex related crime they do, and don’t get erased after the usual 7 years. That’s just proof of how unjust it all is.
We all know how the press can change a few words and make a felony child molestation charge out of a youthful impropriety with an overzealous pubescent
Yes, it was just horseplay. If I was truly wanting to molest them, why stop with a pat on the knee?
I would take the whole case with a grain of salt.
Yes, that’s exactly correct and the way it should have been taken, but instead my life and career is ruined.
Why start with a pat on the knee?
Because it’s what they wanted me to do, it was just horseplay. The girls themselves went out bragging they got a dollar out of me, and none of the girls involved even complained. It was a special ed. girl who was angry at me for sending her to the dean’s office that heard about what happened and complained. If a pat on a knee can ruin a person’s career we really live in one sorry world. No human being is going to get any particular excitement from a single pat on a knee, true molesters wouldn’t stop there. They were offering to do more for more money, but I told them no. I even had girls wanting to come to my apartment and run around naked, but I told them absolutely no way. It was me that was being sexually harassed by them, and that’s the way it was. I ask you, have you ever heard of anyone ever being convicted of a sex crime before for such minor things. No. And that’s because true pedophiles don’t stop with a pat on a knee. Even Immigration couldn’t believe I was convicted over such minor things but the said they had no choice buy attempt me because of public pressure. I was not deported, however, I left on my own to escape all the news reporters coming to my apartment and calling me on the phone. I have never seen any group of people make such a mountain out of a mole hill. Even the police themselves were sympathetic to my case, but immature Korean news reporters trying to make a name for themselves, flew in like vultures for the kill.
In Korea it’s common for grandparents and parents to reach down, especially during public occasions, and grab young boy’s penises. Yes, it’s true. It’s the custom. Talk about child abuse. That’s a thousand times worse than anything I did, oh but this is ok??? I was told by a Korean friend who was sympathetic about my situation, how his mother grabbed an American boy by his penis in the U.S. and how the mother of the boy called the police and the offending grandmother nearly went to prison, but they let her off with a stern warning due to her advanced age. This just all proves, it not the act, but how people look at it. It’s all in the mind, a pat on a knee becomes a terrible offence, while grabbing and pinching little boy’s dicks in public is just fine. Well, it’s not fine. A pat on a knee is nothing; it’s not traumatizing, but being pinched on the penis is horrible. Why don’t Koran news reporters do something about that bit of child sex abuse craziness that goes on?
because the dick pinch does not lead to sex in bed, etc, like the way they do with REAL sex criminals.
shame on you.
For even asking.
leave another line if you catch grandma sucking on that dick.
or
grandpa forcing his dong into a boy’s ass.
that’s what I understand REAL sex criminals do.
there’s a wee-wow world of difference.
I’m glad you admitted it because many foreigners might not have believed me otherwise.
Regardless of what it might lead to, pinching a kid on his dick, especially in front of others, is far far worse of an act than anything I did, yet I catch hell for a mere pat on a knee, while this evil rampant sexual abuse of boys is openly permitted. That’s just plain ridiculous.
AND YES, THAT IS WHAT REAL SEX CRIMINALS DO, AND I NEVER DID ANYTHING OF THE KIND. BY YOUR OWN STANDARDS, I AM NO REAL SEX CRIMINAL.
I would also like to add, the homosexual dancing that Korean men engage in at nightclubs is enough to make one want to throw up. They “go down” on each other, acting like they’re going to suck each other off, and then feel-up each other while in full embrace, and get behind each other and start humping. It’s absolutely disgusting; and even back in the U.S., where I’m at now, I see the same thing in clubs where Korean men go. Furthermore, while in Korean I had innumerable Korean men (mostly middle aged, but some young ones too) come over to me and put their hands on my legs in jazz bars and feel my ass in night clubs. Talk about molestation! I’ve been molested by Koreans more times than I can count, yet if I complain what’s going to happen to them? Nothing! Why? Because it’s part of Korean perverted culture, like the dick pinching.
“homosexual dance wants to make you throw up”
there is this weird tendency among you white guys in Korea.
1/ you bang the local women to ‘liberate’ them.
2/ you insist that a huge lot of Korean men are gay. They make you throw up, but apparently the likes of Elton John or Adam on American Idol or Clay Aiken don’t make you throw up. 99% of those Korean men holding hands aren’t gay and they may do that in public, but there’s no see saw of jaji and thonko going on in the bedroom. It’s not a sexual touch anyway, much like the dick thing by grandma isn’t sexual.
you know what,
you are not needed to
1/ liberate Korean women. A lot of what they claim about a foreign marriage allowing them to do more applied maybe 20 years ago, but not that true no more. Just more dwaenjangnyuhs.
2/ there is no higher % of gays in Korea. Maybe in Thailand or Samoa. Watch discovery channel for plebian reviews.
lastly, there must be good reasons you were convicted in the USA of sex crimes. You are just lying here to clean your name with no real proof. You need to live under intense scrutiny.
and I had the dicky looky thing done to me as a kid by my grandma, eemo, samchon, etc, but I am not traumatized nor am I preparing to sue them in court for money. It was in no way what I would call sexual abuse.
on the otherhand, there was no such thing done to girls. Here, Ajushi A, I’m gonna show you my daughter’s thingy—nope, never seen nor heard of it.
Referring to Korean local practices of non sexual nature to cover up your sex crimes…how low can you get?
oh yeah, since you’re here, explain to me your
1/ love for liberating gays in America by marriage or what not, calling it a civil rights issue
2/ versus pure hate for non-gay acts by Korean men, eagerness to label them gay, etc.
i think you just hate gays, but it’s only acceptable to lash out on Koreans in Korea, but needless to say, politically incorrect to do so to American gays, such as Mr. Sulu. That’s because in America, we have homo-thought Nazis like Perez Hilton. If you don’t agree with them, they’ll tear you apart, and overnight you become a racist, etc.
I don’t hate gays, but I shouldn’t have to see overt gay activities at public non-gay dance clubs.
I know that holding hands is a Korean custom, and not gay, but it’s coming to be that pretending to give oral sex in dance clubs is becoming a Korean custom too, and that’s just going way too far.
My point is, that dick pinching and my being molested by Korean men are far worse acts than anything than what I was even accused of, yet nobody gives a damn about that. The actions are what is most important, not what is in a person’s mind, and there is NO WAY grandparents would be allowed to pinch boys’ dicks in the U.S., sexual or not! This is a ridiculous thing to be doing and far, far, far worse of an act than anything I did.
My act of just giving a girl a single pat on her knee (who asked me to do it), and just shaking another girl’s hand are far less provocative acts than actually pinching a kid on his dick, yet I catch hell, 12 fucking years later, 10 years after the convictions were legally expunged, and with no further complaints. Why? Now that’s just fucking crazy!
If you don’t see a real problem with your thinking by this time, then you really need some psychoanalyses. You are just rationalizing everything to defend a defenseless position.
120 wjk, 검은 머리 외국인 June 10, 2009 at 6:55 pm
and I had the dicky looky thing done to me as a kid by my grandma, eemo, samchon, etc, but I am not traumatized nor am I preparing to sue them in court for money. It was in no way what I would call sexual abuse.
on the otherhand, there was no such thing done to girls. Here, Ajushi A, I’m gonna show you my daughter’s thingy—nope, never seen nor heard of it.
Referring to Korean local practices of non sexual nature to cover up your sex crimes…how low can you get?
YOU HAD THE DICKY LOOKY THING DONE TO YOU AND YOU DON”T CALL THAT SEXUAL ABUSE!!! THIS ONLY PROVES HOW FUCKING CRAZY YOU ARE. SOMEONE PULLS YOUR PENIS OUT OF YOUR PANTS, AS A HELPLESS LITTLE BOY, PINCHES IT AND HAS OTHERS LOOK IT AND THAT’S OK???? BUT A PAT ON A KNEE DONE TO A GIRL WHO ACTUALLY ASKED ME TO DO IT IS A BIG SEX CRIME. BELEAVE ME YOU WERE MOLESTED, AND WERE TRAUMATIZED AND YOUR INABILITY TO VIEW THINGS FOR WHAT THEY ARE PROVES IT.
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