A netizen at Daum Agora well-known for his economic predictions has been arrested and may be charged with spreading false facts.
UPDATE: For some background in English, see this piece in The Economist.
Breaking News: Minerva Arrested
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The government is stupid, truly stupid. I suppose they should arrest the liar that put out all the PR regarding the new “green” deal too. Talk about spreading false facts!
http://www.economist.com/world.....extfeature
If you want to know a bit of the back story…
I wasn’t aware that Minerva had said anything false. From what I’ve read his predictions all came true.
To quote my co-worker: “Don’t we have the right to free speech in this country?”
Truly a strange development, given that most of the people involved in the beef protests, aside from a few scapegoats at the top and some MBC producers, have not been punished?
Is the government going to accuse Minerva of causing the financial crisis? Can’t wait to see the public outcry (or lack thereof) on this one.
What is a “false fact? Does the Hangul really translate to that?
So it is now illegal to make economic predictions in Korea?
Shouldn’t someone in the current administration be arrested for their economic growth predictions?
허위사실 유포… pretty much.
Here’s the link in Korean that explains why he was charged.
http://news.chosun.com/site/da.....01594.html
Praise a God remotely related to Christ that there’s a military dictatorship at the heart of this Internet infested mamsy pamsy democracy that’s keeping us all warm this winter wrapped in GOOD FACTS, and jailing people who don’t deal in GOOD FACTS, and instead prefer to fiddle about with IDEAS and other such satanic ideas.
This will backfire just like the National Ministry of Defense’s attempt to censor books:
. People will tend to take this arrest as a sign that Minerva was silenced because he called the economic outlook for what it was and is.
In the chosun article CM referred, maybe an important part says
“미네르바는 당시 “(정부가) 주요 7대 금융 기관 및 수출입 관련 주요 기업에게 오늘 오후 2시30분 이후 달러 매수를 금지하라는 공문을 보냈다”는 글을 올렸다. 미네르바의 글은 1시간도 안 돼서 수십만 건의 조회수를 기록하며 외환시장에도 대혼란을 끼쳤다. 기획재정부는 즉각 보도자료를 내고 “미네르바의 주장은 전혀 사실 무근”이라며 “허위사실을 인터넷에 유포하는 것에 대해 깊은 우려를 금할 수 없다”고 밝혔다.
하지만 미네르바는 이날 오후 5시쯤 다시 글을 올려 정부의 발표를 반박했다. 그는 “(강만수 장관은) 제발 거짓말을 하지 말라”며 정부를 비난했다. 그는 “거짓말인지 진짜인지 전화 2∼3통만 하면 금방 다 아는 세상인데 자꾸 왜곡하고 속이려 들면 일반 사람들이 뭐라고 생각하겠냐”라고 썼다.
그러나 미네르바의 주장은 불과 두 시간도 안 돼서 사실이 아닌 것으로 밝혀졌다. 그는 강만수 장관에게 사과하고 절필 선언을 했다. 그는 이날 29일 오후 7시 아고라에 ‘속상하다 그리고 사과 드린다’는 제목의 글을 올렸다. “나는 닭은 닭이라고 하고 고양이를 고양이라고 한 거밖에 없는데 약간 문화적 충격을 받은 것 같다”며 “강만수 장관께 사죄 드린다”고 밝혔다. 그는 이 글을 제외하고는 다음 아고라에 그 동안 올렸던 글을 모두 삭제했다. ”
Basic summary: Minerva accused government of ordering the 7 major financial institutions to stop buying dollars, which caused major disruption in market; govt responded within 1 hr denying the accusation; minerva then responded immediately saying government is lying, why would they lie so brazenly when anybody can check with a couple phone calls. Few hrs later it became clear minerva was the one lying; minvera apologizes profusely and deletes his comments on daum agora.
Hey, how do you do the block quote thing again?
Is he real “Minerva”? I thought he is much older with better educational & professional background. This man has too weak background to be true “Minerva”, IMO. If he is real “Minerva”, he should start to write a fiction in jail than posting on Daum Agora.
And I second to #1
Not according to Korea’s defamation laws. In Korea, not even the truth will set you free.
#4 and #6,
If I may beg your indulgence – I had the same question, but no K/E dictionary to look it up. Why would it translate as ‘false facts’ when facts are of themselves not false.
Wouldn’t it be ‘malicious’ as a better choice, although in Korea you can go to jail, apparently, for spreading information that runs counter to what the government wants?
“허위사실 유포” ??? Sounds like the neanderthals at the Prosecutors’ Office are engaged in an Orwellian riff off of the old Arnold flick “True Lies.”
“허위사실 유포” ??? Sounds like the neanderthals at the Prosecutors’ Office are engaged in an Orwellian riff off of the old Arnold flick “True Lies.”
Here’s another one that talks more about Minverva’s charges and his persona:
http://joongangdaily.joins.com.....id=2899637
My coworkers have been talking about this guy at lunch for weeks. Yesterday’s arrest left them dumbfounded and angry at the gov’t. To quote one of MY coworkers, “I’m ashamed of Korea and ashamed to be a Korean.” Way to instill pride in your citizens, gov’t. Around the water cooler, there’s wide disbelief that the guy in custody is the real 미네르바.
Anyway, now that they’ve got this meddling, uneducated clown behind bars, the Korean economy will finally be as strong and stable as they’ve been saying, right?
Perhaps we should do a roll-call of all regular financial commenters here on the Hole. No word yet from Linkd, hmmmmm. And WangKon? Hopefully he’s safely in the US.
I do not know, but a few thoughts from my understanding:
1. The latest “cyber-terrorism” law (great Konglish BTW) makes posting under a misleading or false name illegal under certain circumstances.
2. Likewise, that and other laws, have made it an offense to spread rumors which “harm society” or “disrupt national order” (as vague as those are). I think the case will be partly Minerva’s imaginative prognostications or falsehoods destabilized the market, and therefore harmed/disrupt Korean society.
Likewise, some of you should be reminded that such restrictions are even in the US in some cases. Take a look at the recent Whole Foods/Wild Oats case.
#9 I think you’re right on the money R. Elgin. This will most definitely backfire. If he gets prosecuted he will become like some sort of martyr fighting against the “evil” government. It will just make the government look foolish for overreacting and it will provide more ammunition for LMB haters.
My thoughts exactly. I am not a happy Korean today.
Naw, I think he’s the one. Who else but an unemployed guy would have all that extra time on his hands. His background would make most people ignore him normally, which is why he probably prefers the internet as his medium. It would give him enough anonymity to disguise himself as a economic specialist.
What I’ve been told is that his predictions showed a large amount of economic knowledge, experience, insight, etc., and they were all too often spot on. Their belief was that the gov’t claims the guy was an uneducated 31-year old hack just to discredit him. I mean really, how could someone without an SKY educational pedigree in the Korea be so sage?) If they are right, Jewook, you’ve fallen for it hook line and sinker. Time will tell I suppose.
I got a feeling as far as his abilities, he may have just got lucky. After Merril Lynch busted, it does not take a genius to speculate on Lehman and push it. If he was wrong, he is just another fool on the Internet. If he is right, suddenly he is a celebrity.
In other words, could this no more than a simple fortune telling job. Cold reading the financial markets, and people using confirmation bias to positively impact his credibility. Then when he is caught, talk about the “conspiracy” of the other side to keep the “real truth”.
I do not mean to disagree with the freedom of speech argument, however I think it would be a great error to start speculating if he is the “real” Minerva, or talking as if he is a persecuted financial idiot savant.
Of course I do hasten to add, that such could be true. Lord knows I have seen some people here who are as smart as a whip who did not get into SKY, and likewise some SKY grads that could not find their way out of a kimchi pot with a map.
I cannot believe someone would have the chutzpah to print false items on teh interwebs. Astonishing.
these are funny.
“검찰이 강만수 기획재정부 장관 대신 쓰려고 모셔간 것 아냐?”(삼년불비 우불명, 다음)
☞ “4년제 대학에 대학원까지 나온 사람들보다 백배 낫다. 조사 끝나면 기획재정부 차관으로 특채해라” (윤항로, 다음)
☞ “그나저나 코스피지수가 3000까지 가고, 지난해에 주식사면 부자된다던 2MB는 언제 잡아 넣으려나” (ing, 다음)
☞ “예측이 죄라면 기상청은 죄인?” (friday02, 네이버)
☞ “지하벙커의 1호 작품 멋지게 성공 시켰네” (김영광, 싸이월드)
☞ “진짜 미네르바라면, 백수생활 청산하겠네. 벌금형 정도 치르고 나면 여기저기서 모셔갈 것 아냐?” (곤조, 다음)
☞ “검찰 왜이래, 아마추어같이. 시나리오 치고는 너무 재미없다” (덤벼라 세상아, 다음)
☞ “오늘의 고사성어, 분서갱유” (yesterday, 다음)
☞ “미네르바 열기는 아고라 네티즌의 광기를 보여주는 전형적인 이벤트” (hiya0213, 네이버)
☞ “결국 미네르바는 바보들의 영웅이었네” (hwarm, 네이버)
☞ “30세 전문대졸 백수가 어때서? 실용주의 정부라며, 장관 앉혀야 되는 것 아냐?” (itsajoke, 네이버)
☞ “30대 백수를 강조하는 것을 보니 ‘네티즌을 믿는 미네르바가 학벌 없는 백수다’는 것을 강조하고 싶어 하는 것 같다. 미네르바를 끌어 내리기 위해” (김민호, 싸이월드)
☞ “대중이 언론플레이에 취약하다는 좋은 예. 이제 제 2의 미네르바가 나타나도 속지 않을 것” (soviet84, 네이버)
☞ “증권사 애널리스트에게 낚여서 투자했다가 돈 날렸는데, 그럼 애널리스트 고발해도 되나요?” (양승원, 싸이월드)
☞ “신조어 탄생 ‘미네르바스럽다’ : 열등감과 피해의식에 물든 사회낙오자가 컴퓨터 앞에서 은둔생활로 한 분야 천재인 것처럼 행세하는 것”
☞ “연쇄 살인범이나 성폭력범이나 잘 잡아라. 인원 부족하다면서 이런 쪽으로는 남아도나” (정은성, 싸이월드)
☞ “우리나라 독재정치로 돌아가는 건가” (한지환, 싸이월드)
☞ “요즘 하는 것보면 전두환 전 대통령이 이명박 대통령에게 ‘형님’할 것 같다” (kissme_8282, 야후)
☞ “미네르바랑 강만수 기획재정부 장관이랑 백분토론 나가면 안되나” (foxwoods992003, 야후)
☞ “노스트라다무스와 예수도 검찰조사 받아라” (nunetine09, 야후)
☞ “정부는 저 사람을 잡아넣기보다 왜 사람들이 정부 말보다 저 사람의 글을 믿었는지 생각해봐야 할텐데” (dreamx4081, 야후)
who here thinks Kang Mansoo should keep his job?
With the Internet and all the books available, I do not think a person really needs to go to college to learn, anymore, at least, not after the first year or two.
I learned my most important college lesson in the first semester of my freshman year, which was, “You are on your own now, buddy,” because college professors are different from high school teachers in that they do not usually waste their time trying to motivate you to study. You study or you fail. My freshman English teacher taught that lesson especially well since she had us writing 500-word essays three times a week, which was a big shock for me. I never worked so hard in my life, and I only got a “C” in her class. Nevertheless, I learned more in her class than I learned in all the other classes I took in college because she taught me that I did not learn shit in high school.
Anyway, after a year or two of college, I think people get a general idea of the expectations and can start learning on their own. Of course, there is the problem of not being a certified college graduate, but I think we will eventually solve that problem through simple testing. If a person can pass the CPA Exam, why not let him or her become a Certified Public Accountant?
I do not know much about Minerva, but I do not see why people cannot learn Business and Economics on their own, especially with the Internet and all the books out there.
I think traditional colleges will soon become outdated unless they can do something to reduce the expense. Online courses seem like they might be the answer, but even online courses seem too expensive to me. I think there is a big opportunity there.
It is theoretically possible that information CAN cause harm and disruption, especially in this age, when information is instantly accessible to the masses, and when markets are hypersensitive to public opinion. A responsible modern government has to consider its public duty concerning the dissemination of harmful and disruptive information, which may lead to irreversible economic consequences. Then again, as regards financial decision-making, the public has a duty to scrutinize all information it receives through electronic mass media. So, the responsibility is shared.
Some in the Korean public are not satisfied with the current degree of transparency concerning the motives or logic of this arrest. Apparently the public is expecting its government to reveal its intentions and reasons with the same speed that the public has become accustomed to in the information age.
The speed with which the government is legally required to fulfill this public expectation is unknown to me. Anybody?
“I think traditional colleges will soon become outdated unless they can do something to reduce the expense.”
Just don’t study in the US.
http://hubpages.com/hub/Compar.....-the-world
Re: 27.
“The speed with which the government is legally required to fulfill this public expectation is unknown to me. Anybody?”
He made Korea look bad – full-stop. The only concern is what will be left of his life when he finally gets turned loose.
He’s now on the mother of all blacklists. I wish him well.
“Kim Tae-dong, professor of economics at SungKyunKwan University, who praised Minerva as “the most talented economics teacher of the nation”, had his phone turned off on Jan 9th.”
Thought it was pretty funny.
Re: 30. “Kim Tae-dong, professor of economics at SungKyunKwan University, who praised Minerva as “the most talented economics teacher of the nation”, had his phone turned off on Jan 9th.”
Korea has no room for Mad Cows…. only the sheep are left alone to live in peace.
He had written some false things about his background in order to give his commentary greater credibility. That will turn out to be his crime.
As for “Don’t we have the right to free speech in this country?” — the answer is No, we don’t. But perhaps we should.
Ummm, the DLP crooks are using this as a cause
trojan horse, for “free speech”. There seems to be no one that represents the real voice of the people; only players.IMHO, Korea would be better served if the government focused on bolstering its political and economic credibility instead of tracking down online posters. If the prosecutors only revealed the flaws of “Minerva” (if there are any) and laid off prosecution, it would serve the public good better than putting him in the docket. Instead, they have created yet another tool to be used against them.
My Korean friends are shocked at this one. Seems like this is going to be a massive issue. I haven’t seen young Koreans this engaged in a political issue that isn’t simply demagogued (US army, Japan, etc) in a while.
There was stuff in the news way before the 12/27 currency thing. Korea in Focus did a Podcast about this in early December (available for free in iTunes). The government was out to get him, way back then, and said so publicly.
The issue at that time was a prediction that the Japanese would refuse to rollover some large debt obligations coming due before March, 09, leading to a forex crisis.
As for his predictions, a 500 Kospi, a 50% drop in real estate values and many others turned out to be exaggerated. As for Lehman’s, many people predicted Lehman’s demise. The very reason Treasury and the Fed didn’t intervene was that “the market has been aware for several months that a Lehman collapse was likely.” They expected that unwinding Lehman’s positions would be orderly, one of the biggest mistakes in financial history as we all now know. Several days later AIG went under, thus threatening the holiest of cows, Goldman Sachs. The TARP request (demand) followed hard on.
The Korea in Focus podcast didn’t say they wanted to arrest him, just that they wanted to find him and make him stop.
South Korea’s arrested Internet pundit pleads not guilty
14 hours ago
SEOUL (AFP) — South Korea’s arrested popular Internet financial pundit Saturday denied spreading false information online but a court extended his detention period.
The 31-year-old, identified only as Park but better known as “Minerva”, the Greek goddess of wisdom, claimed he was trying to help those who had suffered as a result of the current financial turmoil.
State prosecutors arrested Park on Wednesday on charges of spreading “groundless” allegations that the country’s currency, the won, was imperiled.
He was questioned in a Seoul court which issued a warrant, requested by prosecutors, to extend his detention.
“I wrote articles in a bid to help those people alienated from the government — small merchants, individuals and laymen who had suffered from the financial crisis,” he told journalists at the court.
“I did not intend to obtain any economic gains through these writings. I accordingly do not admit my guilt.”
Can someone knowledgable in these matters please clear up the legal issues related to blogging here? It’s probably a good idea to make sure that everyone round here knows where they stand.
Is he being charged under a well-defined law? Is the law specifically aimed at online remarks or more generally about public media? Is it because he made statements that are damaging to the national interest? Do the statements have to be “groundless” even if they are about future events? Or is it because he was conducting a financial advisory service without a licence? Or insider trading? Or making false statements about his background?
Is it illegal to make false statements about one’s background? Like lying on a CV? Even if it is not to procure some financial benefit? – like telling someone you work undercover for the CIA.
And how does it fit in to the proposed law about defamation by bloggers? There’s a commercial on TV now that seems to be saying “don’t make people cry by saying nasty things online.” Is there a law about that too?
You have some?
I also made a few predictions here that the Lehman deal would not go through, that the won would decline (but won’t crash) and that Korea relied too much on Japanese technology for its economy. I’m guessing that since most actual Koreans don’t go to TMH and it’s not that big outside the expat and the small percentage of Koreans that read a decent amount of English that I’m okay.
I’m guessing that it’s not the predictions alone that got this guy in trouble, but it’s the strictly anti-LMB line that created the trouble for him.
More info on this in the IHT:
http://www.iht.com/articles/20...../korea.php
Oh… I’m okay anyways because I reside in the U.S. and I’m not under South Korean jurisdiction…
From the Korea Times:
So, in essence, Michael Breen has made a firm statement about an as-yet unmade government decision – indeed, a decision which no one should have knowledge of prior to its being made public by the government itself. How is this different from what Park did?
Sorry – blockquoting looks the same as italics. Here’s another go at it…
From the Korea Times:
“If they’re dumb, however, they’re going to go ahead and prosecute him, but Park will be found not guilty,” said Breen, adding that such an outcome will only do harm to the prosecution. (emphasis mine)
So, in essence, Michael Breen has made a firm statement in a public medium about an as-yet unmade government decision. Indeed, Breen’s statement was made about a decision which no one should have knowledge of prior to its being made public by the government itself. How is this different from what Park did?
North American gyopo times has shown the REAL face of Minerva UNEDITED.
This is no doubt a violation of his rights, and an infringement on his dignity.
Shame on you, Jane Han.
SHAME on you.
Minerva should considering sueing Ms. Han, and Ms. Han should be dismissed from Gyopo Times of Los Angeles, Inc.
WongKon, if you’d read my comment at #17 you would have already known.
(Sorry, that was not a deliberate typo – I’ll go away now.)
Re:#38
From what I read, as far as legal issue is concerned, Mr. Park was arrested for claiming that the Korean Government sent out an “official letter” to number of financial institutes, regarding policy on buying dollar.
I am no expert but to my knowledge, sending “Government official letter” has different legal binding, compare to having a meeting or phone conversation.
It will be difficult for Mr. Park to prove that the official letter was actually sent, especially so if it did not happen however, according to the Electronic communication law article 47, item #1, Korean Government has to prove that Mr. Park had intention of harming public interest when he made the claim.
To me it seems, what motivated Korean Government to enforce the law on Mr. Park, is related but different issue and a few news sources begin to focus on the legality rather than discussing freedom of speech issue.
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