This one is a few days late, but perhaps a good space filler for a slow Friday. Per the L.A. Times, Koreans are moving into the middle-class suburban neighborhood of Fullerton, CA.
Immediately after the L.A. riots of 1992, where a lot of Korean Americans lost their businesses and properties, many of them decided that they had enough of doing business in South Central L.A. and moved out. One town that was freeway accessible and also clean, quite and squarely middle-class was the North Orange County incorporated city of Fullerton. This coincided with the end of the Cold War and the loss of defense and aerospace jobs all throughout Southern California.
Fullerton, which housed major plants owned by Hughes Aircraft (now Boeing) and Martin Marietta (now Lockheed Martin), had a lot of high paying defense and aerospace jobs move out or disappear entirely. Evidently, the city’s population declined and the Koreans moved in.
Notable Koreans from Fullerton? Eric Mun of Shinhwa, singer and draft dodger Steve Yoo, and the “Stanford Imposter” Azia Kim.
{ 51 comments… read them below or add one }
It’s really upsetting to hear about riots, racism and looting. I feel really unhappy about this. When I was in Sydney, Australia – some of the Korean business owners who set up souvenir shops did share about the racism that was there.
They mentioned that they studied at Australian universities but opted to start a business because it’s hard to get up the rat-race by working.
sigh~
lisalee7117, could you be more clear about how their challenges were a function of racist business practices? I am doubtful about the prospect of this occurring on the macro-level, but concede that it might occur (I don’t live in Australia), so please explain.
When non-Koreans face difficulties in the process of career advancement at work here in Korea, are their employers being racist? Or, are other factors at work?
gbnhj, thats a futile argument although completely understandable. From the point of view of psychology, prejudice happens when we receive a blow to our self esteem or generally when we fail to restrict ourselves.
I don’t see anything futile in a request for clarity, unless that request falls on deaf ears. I’ve simply asked a reasonable question, and am hoping for a reasonable response.
BTW, my question didn’t deal with the term ‘prejudice’ but rather with the more specific term ‘racism’, which lisalee7117 used. She wrote about talking with ethnic-Korean persons in Sydney who, according to her, lay fault about their work-related difficulties with racism at the hands of their employers. I’ve simply asked her to amplify that. I guess time will determine whether or not my request was futile.
Fullerton is a well known town in socal, i think it had Koreans occupying the space for quite a while.
some people had horse trails, i think. I think.
there was once a rumor the govt buried military grade waste in Fullerton. Don’t know if it’s true.
Stuart Tay was murdered by Sunny Hills students. One of the defendant’s father was my doctor.
there was a place where you could buy strawberry’s from a farm.
i once knew someone whose Korean dad’s first gig in the US as an immigrant was custodian at a Hughes building.
one of the original Power Rangers also went to Sunny Hills High school. Or I heard.
Ah yes, the Stanford Imposter Azia Kim. I wonder what became of her? What kind of nutty Korean parents gives their daughter such a porn-actress sounding name? Wait, this is California…nevermind.
wkj,
Hey! I had a doctor who’s son was also a defendant in the Stuart Tay case!
Was his practice in Cypress by any chance?
I was just in Fullerton 30 minutes ago.
I remember how upset people were at “Steve” Yoo’s desertion after all the tough guy posturing and swearing that he would enter the Korean military (then taking US citizenship and running away). I wish he would have taken a principled stand in defense of the Korean men that are enslaved by the Korean military by saying that he had no intention of joining, rather than saying he would then doing a runner.
whose son
whose = possessive pronoun
who’s = contraction of who is
Follows the same pattern as its / it’s.
Nouns become possessive by adding ‘s or just ‘ in the case of plural nouns ending in s. Possessive pronouns never contain an apostrophe: my, your, his, her, its, our, their, whose.
Sorry I deprived you of another chance to correct the English of an educated native speaker, Dda. :b
Sonagi, I was out having dinner — and what do I see? Sonagi taking over
Good show.
Sonagi,
“My, your, his, her, its, our, their, whose” are possessive adjectives, not possessive pronouns.
Correction: “His” can be both a possessive adjective and a prossessive pronoun.
I guess grammar correcting can be a legitimate hobby for language enthusiasts? It’s like them crossword puzzles. Some people just love them to death, but I could never figure out why. Wouldn’t you much rather read a good article or a book if you love words so much and have time to kill?
“Whose” can be both a pronoun or an adjective. But in the case Sonagi pointed out, it is an adjective relating to a possessor; the son.
An example of its alternative use as a pronoun: “Tell me whose it was.”
I think.
By the way, if there are any DPRK nerds out there I’d appreciate some feedback on a unification essay I just wrote over at my blog. optimists beware!
JW (#15),
Those good articles and books you mentioned you like reading are often written by people who love grammar and words. Think God that people like J.R.R. Tolkien and others were interested in that kind of stuff.
I am not really a “word” person, but I am interested in grammar, for some reason. That does not mean I am a grammar expert, but I do have a few English and Korean grammar and syntax books laying around.
Sonagi is a teacher, and sometimes teachers cannot help themselves. I do not think she corrects people to embarrass them, but to help them and others to learn. If you were a teacher, I think you would understand that.
By the way, I think Sonagi knows what a possessive adjective is, but just mistakenly labeled it as a pronoun in the process of writing her post. I make those kinds of mistakes all the time. I mentioned her mistake not really for her benefit, but for the benefit of others who may not know the difference between a possessive adjective and a possessive pronoun. I only learned the difference after years of teaching English conversation.
Possessive adjectives must be followed by a noun since adjectives are used to modify nouns. For example, you cannot say “my” without a noun following it. A possessive pronoun is not followed by a noun; in fact, it replaces the modified noun. So, instead of saying “my book,” you can just say “mine.”
The only problem with correcting someone’s grammar on a blog like this is that it may sometimes interrupt the flow of conversation, but it is not usually a big interruption. I do not mind being corrected because I often learn from those corrections. Feel free.
Hoju_saram,
That’s right. “Whose” can also be used as a pronoun.
Not everyone who lives in Southern California holds the LA Times in high regard:
http://patterico.com/category/dog-trainer/
And I would include myself in that number.
There are many Korean enclaves here and there around the southland, and I don’t see anything in this article that clearly demonstrates something new is happening in Fullerton with the Korean residents. Koreans have favored Fullerton– and Rowland Heights, and Hacienda Heights, Diamond Bar, and Garden Grove, and many other areas– as places to settle for the last 20+ years. The article even states “In Fullerton, there are no overwhelmingly Korean enclaves or neighborhoods.” That’s debatable, depending on how you define “overwhelming.”
The schools in Fullerton are definitely a factor, but they have been a factor for at least ten years, if not longer. And yeah, there are some new Korean-oriented businesses around town, but more than a few old ones– like Lotte Market, at Euclid and Orangethorpe in Fullerton– are now gone. In my view, this article is byproduct of a slow news day at the LA Times.
Hello gbevers,
Thanks, that’s interesting. It’s just a small curiosity that I’ve had.
Thank you for correcting my terminology, gbevers. I’m disappointed that Dda let it pass. I don’t usually correct the usage of unfamiliar commenters. Wangkon and I have swapped a few emails, so I think he would take the correction in the spirit in which it was given. More than educating Wangkon about English usage, I really just wanted to beat Frenchman Dda to the punch.
I just came back from googling within the .edu domain, and actually both terms are correct. “Possessive adjective” is the more common expression while either “possessive pronoun” or “possessive determiner” is preferred by linguists. The reason why “pronoun” is more accurate than “adjective” is that the word replaces a possessive noun, not an adjective.
#17 – Hoju,
Where’s your blog? I’m a DPRK nerd, but I don’t know a lot, if that doesn’t help…
@17,
There are people far more qualified than I to make this assessment, but I think your essay is solid. But I don’t think it says anything new.
If you are interested in DPRK, this blog is an absolute must-read: Nambuk Story. It is written by a Dong-A Ilbo reporter who graduated Kim Il Sung University and escaped NK.
All:
There is no more boring time on this blog than when a thread descends into an ad hoc English lesson. Please..make the bad men stop…
CactusMcHarris,
Click on Hoju’s name and you’ll be directed to his site with the essay showing front and center.
Hoju,
No critique from me, I’m pretty much a newbie regarding these matters. The one part that blew me away was the data on eldery poverty. I had absolutely no clue that it was that bad. Yet again this reminds me that my first impulse should be to keep my mouth shut when it comes to things happening in Korea.
# 9, I live in Fullerton, but I haven’t been there for 48 hours!
My gut tells me that lisalee isn’t Korean (not that it really matters).
There’s racism in Australia?
Stating points in individual lines like wjk is really starting to annoy me.
I moved from northern Orange County in late 1976. At that time, it was a heaven on earth — no crime, kids playing outside, walking to school, as wjk noted, there were horse trails throughout Brea, Yorba Linda, etc.
Did I mention, wild milk ran free in the gutters?
Anyhoo, I can scarce imagine the demographic nightmare the region must be now thirty years on.
# 27,
Things have gone downhill south of Commonwealth. North of Commonwealth is still nice and nicer in some respects (i.e. multimillion dollar houses on the hills). Parts of Anaheim and certainly most of Santa Ana has become Tijuanaized. Much of Westminster and Garden Grove have become Saigonized and the Whites huddle together in their bastion of West Garden Grove, which is radically different than the rest of Garden Grove. Even the Korean section of Garden Grove is dying as Koreans, like Whites, flee to the suburbs.
The horse trails still exist, but there was a move by developers to add more homes and condominiums in Los Coyote Hills, which would have built over the trails. Talk of that went away when the housing bubble burst. Still, traffic on Beach Blvd. is heavier than one would like.
“, I really just wanted to beat Frenchman Dda to the punch.”
You don’t know what you’re getting yourself into. Like all Francophones, Dda must have been beaten over the head with one of the Bescherelles (or made to recited entire passages from them) from grades 1 to 12.
“Things have gone downhill south of Commonwealth. North of Commonwealth is still nice and nicer in some respects (i.e. multimillion dollar houses on the hills). Parts of Anaheim and certainly most of Santa Ana has become Tijuanaized. Much of Westminster and Garden Grove have become Saigonized and the Whites huddle together in their bastion of West Garden Grove, which is radically different than the rest of Garden Grove. Even the Korean section of Garden Grove is dying as Koreans, like Whites, flee to the suburbs.”
That’s sounds a tad…bigoted.
Correction: made to recite
Things have really changed if Garden Grove is no longer considered a suburb.
I’d like to dedicate this song to Sonagi and Dda.
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=tbg4Humj_Ys
CactusMcHarris,
JW is right (thanks JW), click on the name.
TheKorean, you’re right; it’s all been said before. And cheers for the link, my Korean isn’t great but it’s a good excuse to work on it.
@ dogbert,
Oh, it’s still a “suburb” just not a very middle class one. I guess the use of word “suburb” has also changed over the years.
@ SomeguyinKorea,
Bigoted? Yeah, that’s me… I’m a card carrying member of the Klu Klux Clan!..
Sonagi (#21),
Possessive adjectives and possessive pronouns are different, and the two words cannot substitute for each other.
A possessive adjective can also be referred to as a “possessive determiner,” which is a special category of noun modifiers, but possessive pronouns are not determiners since, for one thing, they do not modify nouns.
Possessive Adjectives (Possessive Determiners)
Possessive Pronouns
Sorry, Redneck.
youtube.com/watch?v=dRh6sBXt8EM
there’s nothing racist about what wangkon said.
that’s just your “educated reflex”
You’re killing me.
Who knew this thread would turn into grammar class. I feel like I’m in school again. Good thing today’s lesson is in English though. Which makes it somewhat interesting and bearable.
Try going through 6 years of junior high and high school in Korea being taught English grammar in KOREAN by teachers who knew less English than you. What a torturous nightmare!
@Gerry:
Please tell that to the English Dept. at Bucknell, Ohio State, University of Illinois, San Francisco State, George Mason…
I have seen other universities use the term “possessive adjectives.” Both terms are acceptable.
If only the younger generations only bothered to listen. When I see French online, it looks just as bad as the English I can see here and in other places… Plus, we don’t have “grades 1 to 12″ by the way — I didn’t attend schools in the US…
@WangKon936
They need to hurry up and fix up that friggin area on Beach St. near the 91 and 5. I think around Auto Center? It’s been how long now?!
I gotta say, it’s kind of a trip reading this thread while being back home at my parents’ house in Cerritos.
“When I see French online, it looks just as bad as the English I can see here and in other places…”
It’s a matter of context. Remember that many kids in France nowadays use ‘verlan’, which has no standardized spelling. Maybe you’re getting old.
“Plus, we don’t have “grades 1 to 12″ by the way — I didn’t attend schools in the US…”
Neither did I, but we still had “grades 1 to 12″.
By the way, I usually speak in a Norman dialect with my grandmother. Enjoy…
http://membres.lycos.fr/bulot/cauchois/
Sonagi (#40),
Look up “my” and “mine” or “your” and “yours” in a dictionary.
You will find “my” and “your” described as adjectives and “mine” and “yours” described as pronouns, except that “mine” was archaicly used to mean “my.”
Yes, the sites you linked to also incorrectly labeled the words, but that does not mean they are acceptable.
Generally speaking, the dividing line in Fullerton and Placentia is Chapman Ave. For Fullerton, homes north of Chapman Ave, going up the hill, are populated mostly by older & wealthy whites. Homes south of Chapman ave are populated by poorer whites and Hispanics. The Downtown Fullerton area & gated lake community by Malvern & Dale are exceptions, though the better apartments are still on Chapman (Chapman & Harbor) and the ones on Commonwealth are considered less desirable.
In Placentia, the dividing line is more obvious, with the area south of Chapman populated by mostly poorer Hispanics, and areas north Chapman (along Alta Visa) are lined with newer, expensive golf course property. However, the poorer areas of Placentia around old town are still better than the slums in South-West Fullerton.
I almost bought an income property in Amerige Heights back in 2001-2002, but opted for Placentia instead. I loved the shopping plaza on Malvern/Chapman connected to Amerige Heights community, but didn’t like the neighborhood south of there, in addition to the Del Monte cannery and Fullerton airport nearby. There used to be a fruit stand by Malvern & Bastanchury and Malvern & Dale, though I’m not sure if they’re still there now.
If anyone is actually looking for homes in Fullerton, I’d suggest areas around Los Coyotes County Club & Laguna Lake Park. The horse trails south of Laguna Lake Park off Euclid are still there.
adeptitus,
Los Coyote Hills huh? Sure… we all have an extra mil or mil and a half lying around…
Besides whites, there are a lot of Korean doctors living in those Los Coyote hills too. I’ve seen their houses. Super niiiice.
That’s exaggerating. South Fullerton is not THAT bad. I mean it’s not Santa Ana/Hawaiian Gardens bad…
Did lisalee7117 forget about the request I made? It seems so, but perhaps she’ll remember.
sigh~
gbnhj,
Sounds like you googled her and found out she’s a hottie… hahahaha.
hey, Hawaiian Gardens is just like Hawaii.
There’s low income housing stacked with Koreans and a Bingo, I mean a, Poker joint, run by the Chinese.
It’s a great neighborhood.
actually, I knew quite a few Koreans who lived there. Never knew how on earth low income Korean housing existed or was pulled off.
the poker joint used to be a Bingo club. I went exactly once. Inside, you’ll find ugly Chinese women in their 40′s showing a lot of skin.
The bingo and poker places have the same owner. Some old Jewish guy who sends all the profits back to Israel to build illegal settlements in West Bank and Gaza.
All the employees are Chinese so they can communicate with all the customers, most of whom are Chinese.
You can find the best Korean sool jips in the mid-city in Hawaiian Gardens… Might even be a room salon or two.
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