Nice day today. Hope you all enjoy it.
Open Thread #77
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Korea… in Blog Format
Recent Comments
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Korea News via Google- Countries condemn launches, White House remains silent - WGME
- Gov't condemns N.Korea missile tests - AFP
- Israeli minister awaits US response to N.Korea - AFP
- DPRK's new missile launch raises int'l concerns - Xinhua
- Calm urged after N Korea missiles - BBC News
- South Korea to spend $152 mln to secure flu vaccine - Reuters
- Korea Won Ends Up On Long-Dlr Stops, Exporters; Bonds Mostly Up - Wall Street Journal
- S Korea Shares End Flat; Program Selling Weighs On Large-Caps - Wall Street Journal
- US Targets Firms Tied To N. Korea Arms Trade - Washington Post
- South Korea Trade Surplus Rises - Wall Street Journal
- Korea News via Google Korea
- 셀라야, 5일 귀국 계획 확인 - 연합뉴스
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- MB, 마이스터고로 '평생교육-취업체제' 구축 - CNB뉴스
- 신임 IAEA총장 "이란 핵무기 추구 증거없어" - 연합뉴스
- “총리·내각·청와대 개편을” 한나라당 쇄신안 확정 [중앙일보] - 중앙일보
- [여야, 비정규직법 대치 거듭]-2(종합) - 매일경제
- 7월 3일 주요일간지 일일 모니터 브리핑 - YTN
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{ 51 comments… read them below or add one }
First!
Cold and wet day in Daejeon
Not yet too cold for a motorcycle ride out of Seoul, but far too windy. It’s a shame, I’m looking at blue skies and white clouds at the moment.
Maybe now is the time to visit LOTTE Department store and do some window shopping.
http://ratemyhagwon.com/2008/1.....apartment/
http://www.thelongestway.com/
Is a very nice photo blog and diary of a German dude, walking from Beijing back home (with a few interludes). So far he has made it Urumqi in western China.
I don’t remember the Seoul skyline being so clear as today. I could see Seoul Tower from the highway just off Bundang. Crisp.
I was in the Canadian Pooperstore (a Canuck version of Wal-Mart, only without most of the WM negative energy) yesterday and it’s true, it’s true, the minjok do refer to non-Koreans as foreigners, even when the minjok themselves are the foreigners, in a foreign land, surrounded by (mostly) white North Americans.
But, with impeccable logic, it does make sense, kind of – there are Koreans, and there’s everyone else.
We had our first real snowfall here yesterday – not much, but it’s staying.
I’m getting started on the Dokdo book – it’s mostly very slow going, much like War and Peace.
http://news.chosun.com/site/da.....00043.html
As a Korean I no longer have any right to talk shit about Chinese take-out.
Sad.
As an American continuously learning Korean, I thought it was great that tabang ladies would deliver the coffee and a lesson.
ratemyhagwon,
u r naive. those are fixed. the prise goes to someone’s relative.
As for Koreans who call us foreigners in our own countries, I do make it a point to politely correct them. I think we all should.
It is cold but it is not wet in Dae Jeon today. The sun is shining right now in Doon San.
It is cold but it is not wet in Dae Jeon today. The sun is shining right now in Doon San.
Koreans, Chinese, Japanese, and any other people whose written language is influenced by hanja are in ‘foreign land’, which is populated by ‘foreign people’. Still, the nuance should be pointed out. Killer to me is when a 24-year-old introduces himself to me (I’m well well over 24) as Mr. Kim, and yet calls me by my first name. Did Koreans have to adapt the English words Mister and Miss into their language? It is so fucking uncool. ‘Ssi’ would have more than sufficed, just as ’san’ does in Japan.
How!! ssi and san are honorifics used to someone else not to introduce oneself., so doesn’t suffice in Japan cause no one would say it in introducing themselves.
I kinda disagree. I don’t think English-speakers should be telling Koreans the correct usage of Korean words. I think we should just accept that their word 외국인 does quite mean the same thing as our word “foreigner.” It doesn’t mean that Koreans are wrong. It possibly means that there is an ongoing mistranslation. Seems to me that, according to Cactus’s evidence, 외국인 doesn’t mean “foreigner,” it means “non-Korean,” etymology be damned.
Argh! This is now officially the worst Missouri Tigers football season EVER. We have a good team, with a legitimate star quarterback, and those ninnies managed not only to lose to Texas and Oklahoma State, but today at Arrowhead to the 7-5 Kansas Jayhawks! A 9-3 Tiger football record never stung this bad.
I must admit to being a fan of both Cactus McHarris and Granfalloon, and here I think they both have a point. As for “외국인” and “foreigner,” this seems to be a common problem in many linguistic groups that are more or less ethnically homogenous. For example, I find that Chinese students who are new to Canada often refer to Canadians as foreigners, though it is the Chinese students themselves who are the foreigners here.
But they apply the Korean meaning of “외국인” to the English word “foreigner.” An English speaker generally identifies a specific person or persons by their nationality when the nationality is known. Koreans often don’t, reflecting their bipolar worldview of Korean and not Korean.
And Nathan is correct that the Chinese do the same thing although while living in China, I noticed that only really foreign foreigners, aka non-Northeast Asians, were called “laowai” or “waiguoren.” Koreans and Japanese were identified as “hanguoren” and “ribenren.” A Japanese friend once recounted to me of how he was sitting at a dinner table surrounded by Chinese colleagues complaining that there weren’t any foreigners sitting at their table.
“Seems to me that, according to Cactus’s evidence, 외국인 doesn’t mean “foreigner,” it means “non-Korean,” etymology be damned.”
I would think that it does not translate to “non-Korean”, but more accurately “not of our country”. If I’m in Canada then they are not of my country; they are 외국인.
hey, even white Americans in the US treat white folk like they’re closer to home blood.
when they see a black guy, they have this unsaid guard.
when they see a yellow guy, they have this pre-conceived notion we’re all from China.
who cares if you feel alienated by the term, waekgookin, gaijin, etc?
serves you right.
white folk, meaning anyone who looks like they’re obviously from Europe.
soondae,
“Mr” is not a term of respect in Korea. It designates an office worker, a common helper or a cheap laborer. In a sense, it is even derogatory.
I wonder the person who used it knows the true English meaning of the word.
Don’t assume the extent of a person’s English skill. Koreans speak “Jap English” not the true English.
i’ve had some thoughts.
here they are…
what happened to Ok Sori and Shin Jungah doesn’t show anything positive about how women are treated in Korea.
i don’t think the Italian sausage played as big as a role in Ok Sori’s demise as y’all think.
If there is any sense of legitimacy in existence among Women’s groups in Korea, they should pour down money to help Ok Sori win in court and make an example out of Park Chul to the greatest extent.
Korean laws against illicit drug use are still excellent laws. US should consider adopting it, although I understand there might be some problems with it being constitutional.
Brendon,
On the other hand, I relish California’s soon-to-be 8-4 (barring some catastrophic happening against UW) that came in a rebuilding year. Sure, that random loss against Maryland hurt (after I drove 4 hours to see it no less!) but overall, a decent season to build on.
Do me a favor and beat OU in the Big 12 championship? I can’t accept the fact that Texas will be passed over Oklahoma when Texas beat Oklahoma in a neutral territory. All will be right if Mizzou beats OU.
#24 wjk said: “Korean laws against illicit drug use are still excellent laws. US should consider adopting it…”
That was either poorly played sarcasm or the stupidest thing I’ve read all week.
Here’s the counterargument from police and law enforcement:
http://www.leap.cc/cms/index.php
Michael Breen redefines Public Relations (all headlines Bloomberg):
Looks like a tough job, PR does.
PS – just taking the piss, old boy. You know we love you.
I don’t pretend to understand what is going on in Thailand, but I think it reminds us that whatever its shortcomings, Korea’s development is still a model for many countries. One of the things that they have been talking about in Thailand is accusations that the government’s supporters are relatively uneducated and because of this, not all seats in the assembly should be directly elected. This is certainly interesting in the light of many things that have been said around here lately. They are still locking up ex-Presidents in Taiwan and talking about a “Gloria Forever” constitution in the Philippines.
Korea’s democratic facade over the kleptocracy seems to be very well-rooted indeed.
eujin,
Korea was under American influence from 1945 to 1980. Some “American” democracy, one vote for one person for example, rubbed off.
It is funny that nobody in Korea is willing to admit this. I mean good American influence. Now, Korean Commies taught everything about America is bad. And, some Europe-educated wimps have chimed in.
The truth, however, is America worked for Korea. It worked through Christianity. That changed Korea. Whenever there was a big conflict, churches including both Protestants and Catholics steered Korea from a big killing field.
And, in fact, that is how America avoided racial war in America as well. Through churches.
This is not possible in non-Christian nations. Buddhists can peacefully kill other people. Nothing to lose; the dead reborn. Some even to an upper being.
Religion has much to do with how nations behave.
#10,
And to do so in Korean, of course, so that at least the point is delivered.
#15,
I have no evidence, but I think that it would help Koreans-in-foreign-lands’ transitions if they stopped using that phrase. Even my Korean isn’t quite yet rusty enough to not note that the phrase ‘outside country person’ is, when used by Koreans outside of Korea, means not Korean, i.e. the greatest folk on earth…..just kidding.
# 16,
Hey Brendon… at least you are not a USC fan. We, year after year, have the best team in college football. We end up losing once to a mediocre team and the BCS never forgives us and we have to hear our coach whine about it for the second half of the season…
University of Spoiled Children
University of Super Connections…
Then why don’t you stop pretending you have anything worth saying about what anyone has to “learn from Korea” and refrain from otiose and foolish speculative twaddle on that non-subject.
#36,
Your comment smacks a bit of the out-and-outer – perhaps you’ve not had a good day.
I’ve found Eujin’s comments anything but otiose – perhaps you mistook her posting for someone else’s.
As to twaddle, I wish you had reviewed your posting – any major dude or gal can see that you’ve created a murky puddle of gratuitous meanness that needn’t have been posted.
Sperwer’s from Detroit, home of the 0-16 Lions, governed by a succession of corrupt, inept leaders, located across from Windsor, Canada, a boring shithole that actually looks scenic compared to the rusting smokestacks across the river.
Time to start making your Xmas shopping lists!!
Bet one of those babies would put some ho-ho in Sperwer’s stocking.
Since it is an open thread….and I reckon that Sperwer’s taken enough chiding…
Can anyone help me out with the ability to type Hangul? I’ve got the East Asian package downloaded, I have the choice of Korean or English in the language bar (and have chosen Korean, no pun intended), but I’m still getting Roman letters – egads.
Any advice on this (or anything else your heart desires) would be appreciated.
Linkd: I don’t smoke, but I know a place in Key Marathon with barstools upholstered in tanned whale penis skin on which I bet you would like to sit.
Sonagi:
When I lived there the auto factories (where all my family worked) were running at full tilt, and the city was rich. The Lions were quarterbacked by Bobby Layne and Earl Morrall, with Yale Larry, Terry Barr and Hopalong Cassasdy as backs/receivers; Joe Schmidt ran the defense with Alex Karras and Roger Brown at DT, Wayne Walker at LB and Night Train Lane @ CB, and Dick LeBeau in the secondary. They won the Thanksgiving Day game against green bay, which was the only game that mattered, more often than not. Al Kaline, Jim Bunning, Red Wilson, Eddie Yost, Hank Aguirre,Norm Cash, and Rocky Colavito played for the Tigers and Gordie Howe played with a Red Wings team captained by Ted Lindsay with Terry Sawchuck in goal and Alex Delvecchio and Norm Ullman also in the front line. Basketball didn’t count. Glory days, sister.
Cactus:
Eujin does generally post decent, even good stuff. I was only calling her on the quoted drivel, which isn’t worthy of her.
Of course, I knew you were just kidding, but I thought maybe a prop might help the routine.
Slow day on the Hole today?
At the risk of obscuring an already obscure point, I note that Michael Howard, former Home Secretary and former leader of Her Majesty’s Opposition has commented on the recent political scandal in the UK, “This is the sort of thing that led to the start of the civil war,”.
http://www.iht.com/articles/20.....ritain.php
That’s right folks, the English Civil War of 1642. Plus ca change…
“Otiose” must be Detroit vernacular for “I’m an SAT geek”, or something. I am always reminded of those long vocab lists I’d study as a kid when I read a Sperwer post here.
Cactus, if you’re running Vista, one way is to left click on the EN and scroll to KO Korean, then left click on the Roman letter “A” on the toolbar so it changes to “가.” If you have the cursor in a text box you should be able to type in Hangul.
Check out the pre-Christmas rush OUT of Korea on eslcafe.com’s Buy n’Sell board.
“Everything must go! Free furniture! Foster dog needs home! Hell, the dog died so come take the crate for free! Buy my couch and I’ll throw in a Trek mountain bike! Kawasaki motorcycle! Macbook Air! Take my apartment in Hongdae!”
Looks a bit like the Titanic to me. I see people jettisoning some valuable stuff. I wonder why.
Strictly non-scientific poll.
I’m genuinely flattered Linkd, (so I won’t suggest seeing about getting you work as a fluffer.
) But I see your point; I do need some sort of gimmick to accompany me on my periodic detours and frolics into curmudgeondum. A stogie would do for a WC Fields, but I’m no longer fat enough. And I no longer drink – not much anyway – so that rules out Doc Holiday (booze and his saloon ladies – damn) and Ambrose Bierce (booze and Mexican saloon cooze – damn). I’ll have to think on it.
[BTW the cetacean preputiam carapaced bar stools actually exist at the Key Marathon Marina - or they did in 1985, which was the last time I was there. They were commissioned by John Theurer, who was then the owner. His family started out as carriage makers in Central Europe, then New York City and when John ran the company they made marine cargo containers and trailers (as in tractor-trailers). He was a colorful character.]
What can I say Mr. Alphabet? I was terrible at math, so I overcompensated.
Cactus,
while being in Korean language bar, you should see something like this: KO A [Chinese character]. At this point, try pressing ALT on the right side of your keyboard. The language bar should now say KO 가 [Chinese character]. Now you are ready to type Korean.
Wangkon,
I had a friend from Univ. of South Carolina — apparently the South Carolina Gamecocks get all pissy about the fact that their USC is older than Univ. of Spoiled Chil… err Univ. of Southern California. So he had a shirt that said (saw this myself): “Before there were Trojans, there were Cocks.” Priceless.
Yes… I heard of *that* USC. The WAY overshadowed USC.
Ain’t our fault that the Trojan is bigger than the cock…
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