Yet ANOTHER F-5 has crashed, this time following an in-air collision with another F-5 during a training mission.
The more heavily damaged fighter crashed into a rice paddy in Pocheon, Gyeonggi-do. Not that far from some houses, actually. The pilot ejected safely, while the other aircraft managed to make it back to its base in Wonju.
Oh, and four Sidewinder missiles shook loose of the aircraft in the collision — one fell behind a church, where it’s being recovered. The Air Force is still looking for the other three, though, so if you find a missing air-to-air missile in your backyard, please do give them a call.
Oh, and likewise, if you find any Korean War-vintage unexploded 500kg bombs at your downtown construction site, please let the authorities know.
{ 23 comments… read them below or add one }
Is there a reason so many Korean fighter pilots seem to crash?
Poor training is the root cause. A cultural denial of danger is another.
Is there a reason so many American pilots who were future Republican presidents and presidential candidates seem to crash?
Poor training is the root cause. A cultural denial of danger is another.
Really? I believe you, but jeeze even the airforce is as bad as the rest of country?
All you need is a Hanu cow and it’s an anger-causing scene from a James Bond movie.
I wonder if the pilot will be allowed to mark this on his cockpit as a “kill”?
There really aren’t very many ROKAF crashes, particularly if you compare the ROKAF to other air forces. There have only been a few in the last several years. There were a couple of USAF crashes on the Peninsula in the same time period, but you can’t include those in the total for the ROKAF. All countries with air forces suffer a certain percentage of crashes. These crashes occur for many different reasons; pilot error, mechanical problem, weather, etc.
Fighter pilots are more prone to losing aircraft because of the nature of the flying they do–they are pulling high G maneuvers and have miliseconds to make life-and-death decisions. There were two ROKAF crashes about three years ago that were a combination of a number of different elements–training for a new, very dangerous type of mission; low-level nighttime flying over water (also extremely difficult); and very fast speeds. Have you ever tried to fly at or close to mach 1 upside down at night 100 meters above the water, where you can’t see the horizon or any landmarks from which to orient, and take evasive maneuvers at the same time? It doesn’t take much to make a fatal error under those conditions. I’ve also been around when a US Navy F-14 crashed during takeoff because the pilot, a squadron commander who was attempting to get in his minimum amount of flight time to keep his flight status, made a simple mistake upon takeoff. Bottom line, accidents happen. They happen more often in the military because the job is far more dangerous than the any “normal” job. I know more dead coworkers from my time in the Army than I do dead coworkers from my time in the civilian world.
Something else that hasn’t been mentioned here is the fact that the plane that was involved in the crash is a fairly old plane. The airframe is probably 30 years old, if not older. The older the plane, the greater the chance for an accident.
To say that these crashes are due to poor training is a statement made from ignorance. It is also insulting to those in South Korean uniforms doing their duties to their countries, their families, and those who worked and trained with them–to include those from other nations like the US military.
Your explanation is too wordy, Haksaeng. I’d rather go with the simplistic stereotypes.
I was thinking of placing a sidewinder missile up for bid on Auction.com. I’ve never used it but my students tell me it’s just like Korean E-bay. But then again I thought better of it because maybe the Korean military police don’t have a sense of humor.
I’m glad that the worst thing about the picture above is the farmer will have a time getting rid of that taint of aviation fuel from his field.
Damn straight the fuel pollution will pose a problem, but given the urbanization in the area, the pilot did a great job of parking where he did and not on top of a child care center.
Does anybody think the debris is kinda strange, given it was unpiloted at impact. It looks like it was attempting a Harrier-style vertical landing and dropped the last 10 meters and caught alight, with the fuselage burning and melting away.
I thought the debris from a plane crash was normally scattered with bits of airframe and Steve Fosset spread all over the place.
“To say that these crashes are due to poor training is a statement made from ignorance.”
Oh really? Tell that to the Capt. Who flew the KAL 747 into a mountain in Guam. One of the biggest issues the Korean ROCKAF has is CRM once they leave the military. The other issue here in Korea is there is very little airspace and no civilian flying to speak of. Save for KAL’s Cheju academy and Hankuk Aviation University the access to aircraft is very limited. No argument about flying over water at night is dangerous, the real question is did they practice the maneuver in the simulator prior to the mission? Answer: NO. The problem is training. The pilots in Korea are no different than the guys on motorcycles cutting in and out of traffic; bad things don’t happen to me, they happen to the other guy. Rules don’t apply to me; they are for the other guy. Cultural denial of danger.
Hey, I cut in and out of traffic on a motorcycle, and let me tell you, it requires considerable skill and training. Don’t believe me? Try it.
Apart from prejudice, what is your belief based on?
I know people in the industry. I know people who were close to the F-15K accident. I asked questions on why the pilot pulled the airplane up into the ocean. I also asked if they trained the upside down over water, night mission in a full flight simulator prior to the mission. Training is expensive. When new aircraft are purchased the OEM provides pro forma or initial training. Good pilots are not born, they are taught. Do you all remember the Olympic bridge Chinook accident? They were not trained on that fuck-up either!
“One of the biggest issues the Korean ROCKAF has is CRM once they leave the military. The other issue here in Korea is there is very little airspace and no civilian flying to speak of. Save for KAL’s Cheju academy and Hankuk Aviation University the access to aircraft is very limited.”
I’m not sure what your point here is; there would be fewer military plane crashes if there were more civilian aircraft sharing the same airspace?
“No argument about flying over water at night is dangerous, the real question is did they practice the maneuver in the simulator prior to the mission? Answer: NO.”
And how do you know this with such certainty?
Now go one step further, support your claim that this accident was due to a lack of training. The majority of the senior pilots in the ROKAF have significantly more hours in the cockpit than their US counterparts. I know several ROKAF pilots with over 2,000 hours of stick time just in F-16s. I’ve met equally experience pilots who flew F-4s and F-5s. I can also tell you with absolute certainty that you are dead wrong on your claim of “cultural denial of danger” among the ROKAF pilots that I know.
So, on what do you base your claim? Since you are quick to insult, I assume you are just as quick to support your insults.
I should also add that I worked with two ROKAF lieutenant colonel that each had over 4,000 hours in F-5s.
re-instate mins0306.
the only thing he did wrong was insult cm.
who deserves to be insulted, by the way.
lots of people here use socks.
i don’t.
I could sock myself to show up dda.
I won’t.
I will never leave you.
This pissing contest continues……..
I’m not sure what your point here is; there would be fewer military plane crashes if there were more civilian aircraft sharing the same airspace?
It speaks to the fact that the Korean military deals with green aviators. There are zero pilots that come with any civil air experience. I know most U.S. military aviators join green but there is a percentage that don’t.
“No argument about flying over water at night is dangerous, the real question is did they practice the maneuver in the simulator prior to the mission? Answer: NO.”
And how do you know this with such certainty?
Because I know the people who sold the F-15 K’s and I know the integration team in Deagu who were/are providing the pro forma training sim training. I asked them!
Now go one step further, support your claim that this accident was due to a lack of training. The majority of the senior pilots in the ROKAF have significantly more hours in the cockpit than their US counterparts. I know several ROKAF pilots with over 2,000 hours of stick time just in F-16s. I’ve met equally experience pilots who flew F-4s and F-5s. I can also tell you with absolute certainty that you are dead wrong on your claim of “cultural denial of danger” among the ROKAF pilots that I know.
I find your claim unbelievable. Oh and here is a news flash for you…. Pilots are egotistical people. They all think they are the Ace of the base. Capt. Flawless. Check into it!
So, on what do you base your claim? Since you are quick to insult, I assume you are just as quick to support your insults.
You can take them as insults if you wish. If you think I am going to name names, you are high.
Well….if you look how Koreans drive their cars, it might explain this crash as well.
It just leaves me wondering how the hell you can get into a mid air collision while there ain’t any traffic lights are other vehicles in front of you…
AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH…[sigh]….
Never ever have seen a Korean who has any skills in speed and distance estimation until now.
By the way….have you guys noticed that so many cars here Korea have broken breaking lights?
I guess they break more than they accelerate…
“It speaks to the fact that the Korean military deals with green aviators. There are zero pilots that come with any civil air experience. I know most U.S. military aviators join green but there is a percentage that don’t.”
That percentage is very small, to the point where it is almost meaningless. The vast majority of US Air Force pilots get their civilian pilots licenses using their military training time. It is not the other way around. Almost all US Air Force pilots go into flight training straight from college with no other flight background.
“Because I know the people who sold the F-15 K’s and I know the integration team in Deagu who were/are providing the pro forma training sim training. I asked them!”
Only one of the two planes that went down during that training period was an F-15. Also, both of the pilots that went down were very experienced and had a lot of training. It was a very dangerous mission–one that that the US Air Force does not fly in part because of the danger–and was a new mission to the pilots. I’m still waiting to hear the particulars over how this accident was caused by either a lack of training or by a culture epitomized by motorcyclists in Seoul.
“I find your claim unbelievable. Oh and here is a news flash for you…. Pilots are egotistical people. They all think they are the Ace of the base. Capt. Flawless. Check into it!
I’m not sure which claim you find unbelievable, that I worked with ROKAF pilots, that they are aware of the dangers of flying, or that they have a lot of stick time. I can’t prove the first over the Internet, you will just have to take my word for it– or not. No skin off my back either way. Same goes for the second, I am speaking from my experience, and that experience does not match with your generalities. As for the third, all you have to do is look at the uniforms. The ROKAF issues patches for more than 2,000 hours in the cockpit, and those patches are aircraft specific. If you don’t believe that, just ask your friends in the South Korean F-15 community. They should be able to verify it.
Finally, I am not asking or telling you to name names. You are being insulting with you generalities and your-holier-than though pronouncements, and I am just pointing that out. If you think that all the world’s air forces problems can be solved by eliminating Seoul motorcyclists, then I am not going to change your mind through a few words here. I can, however, point out how ignorant your statements are and that they are insulting, whether you meant it that way or not. I have worked alongside the South Korean military for a number of years and I have witnessed it do what less knowledgable people said it couldn’t do. It has shortcomings, as does every military in the world, to include the US, but it is better than most and it is well trained. Can it use more training? Show me a military unit anywhere in the world that can’t. The accident with the F-15 was not an accident caused by a lack of training. If anything, it was a lack of experience under those specific conditions, but those were highly trained pilots that died in those accidents.
I’ll take your word for everything Korean. K Pilots=GOOD
American pilots=second best. I follow you.
I’m not sure where you got that, but whatever. All I said is that the Korean pilots who died were training for a dangerous mission that the USAF doesn’t do, a simple factual statement. I made no qualitative comparisons. I find it interesting that this thread started by your insults of the ROKAF and it is ending with you flinging insults again. Looking back, I also find it interesting that the only bit of information that you’ve added to this discussion is that you “know people in the industry.” Beyond that, all you’ve provided are insults, accusations, and empty challenges.
For your information, though, the reason why the USAF didn’t do that mission is because it was done by US Army attack helicopters. ROK Army attack helicopters are not equiped to handle the mission, plus they are all reaching the end of their lifecycle, so it was left to the ROKAF to handle. Using fast movers for this mission is not as efficient as using attack helicopters, but that is all the ROKs have to use.
Good luck with you hero-worship of you pilots friends. You also provided second hand opinions. If you want to take my statements as insults, that is your problem. Mid air collisions and vertigo in the F-15K does not shout out to me “a lot of stick time”. You are right about one thing, you do have more experience tea-bagging ROKAF pilots. Good luck.
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