UPDATE 3: Fuck me — After watching video footage of the encounter, Mokpo Coast Guard Station says Park, who was the first to board the Chinese fishing boat, fell into the water after he was hit on the head with a shovel by a Chinese crewmember, apparently as he was hanging on the railing of the boat trying to get on.
Forensics also show he died from cervical pressure and drowning.
ORIGINAL POST: A Coast Guard officer was found dead after a clash with a Chinese fishing boat operating illegally in the waters off southwest Korea.
This should get you angry. Very angry:
Park had been missing since around 7:40 p.m. Thursday, after he stopped two Chinese fishing boats 73 kilometers off the island for fishing in Korea’s Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ), the police agency official said.
The Chinese fishermen were reported to have strongly resisted when Park and his two other colleagues stopped them, wielding metal pipes, shovels and clubs. The 50-ton Chinese fishing boats were caught at around 10:30 a.m. Friday. Eleven Chinese fishermen on board are now under investigation, the officials said.
Yonhap has a better timeline:
- Thursday: Coast Guard discovers two Chinese fishing boats operating in Korea’s EEZ. They send two speed boats with 17 Coast Guard officers on board.
- Thursday, 7:40am: Park and two other Coast Guard officers try to board one of the Chinese fishing boats for a search. Chinese crew fights back, and Park goes missing. Chinese boats flee.
- Friday, 10:30 am: The Chinese boats are found again. They are boarded, but no sign of Park.
- Friday afternoon: Park’s body is discovered off Gageo-do Island, not far from where he first went missing.
It gets better — Coast Guard officials in Mokpo say a belt and a nightstick belt were wrapped around Park’s neck. A national forensic team is now trying to determine whether he was strangled to death or the belt got there postmortem as the body was floating around in the ocean.
Coast Guard officials say that after investigating the 11 Chinese crew members, currently being held in Mokpo, they plan to charge them with killing Park while hindering the execution of official duties and murder.
This is not the first time we’ve posted about violent Chinese fishermen assaulting Korean Coast Guard officials. The Hanguk Ilbo, however, reports just how serious the situation is, with Chinese crews brandishing bars, metal pipes, chains and even hammers and knives at Coast Guard officers who try to board their boats. Coast Guard officials are scared, but there is criticism that the Coast Guard has brought about its own impotence by arming its men for searches with only gas guns and stun guns… out of fear of causing diplomatic problems with China.
Because of this, people around the Coast Guard are calling for officers to be allowed to use their guns to bring illegal fishing boats under control fast.
In fact, the Chinese fishing boat that was found Thursday was full of all kinds of weapons, including homemade spears, wood bars and metal pipes. There were also shovels, hammers and other weapons that could kill arresting officers. One Coast Guard official told the Hanguk Ilbo that Park fell in the water as he was trying to fend off Chinese fishermen brandishing pipes and spears. He said Chinese fishermen know full well that Korean Coast Guard officers carry only gas guns, stun guns and batons, so rather than the officers trying to bring the crews under control, the crews end up trying to put down the officers by force.
A Coast Guard superintendent in Mokpo said trying to seize a Chinese fishing boat was just like a war in which you put your life on the line. He said he’s often felt his life at rish due to violently resisting Chinese crews trying to avoid the millions in won in fines.
According to Mokpo Coast Guard Station, every year since 2005, they’ve seized around 200 Chinese fishing boats operating illegally in the waters off Mokpo. This year, thanks to an agressive crack down by the Chinese themselves, they’ve seized only 64 through September. Coast Guard officials say, however, that the crews who do make it past the Chinese authorities to operate illegally in Korean waters are more violent and brutal.
It’s not only the Coast Guard paying the price. Korean fishermen are also paying the price. A fishing official in Mokpo said that due to Chinese fishing methods, the fisheries of the southern part of the West Sea are now empty. Korean fishermen have considering trying to drive the Chinese boats out, he said, but out of fear, all they do is radio it in to the Coast Guard.
A fishing communications official in Mokpo said Chinese crews frequently insult and threaten with weapons Korean fishing boats that try to approach them. If the Coast Guard gets called, the Chinese retaliate by cutting the nets set up by Korean fishermen.
It’s because of this that calls are growing for special measures to be taken to confront the high-handed behavior of Chinese fishermen. A Mokpo Coast Guard official said officers have already been given bullet-proof vests, rubber bullet guns and tactical batons, but with Chinese crews growing more high-handed, officers needed to be allowed to use their guns, which at present they are allowed only to carry.
The Coast Guard plans to make Park’s death an opportunity to formally recommend to the government the formation of an elite boarding unit that would carry firearms.
Marmot’s Note: This is outrageous. Korean Coast Guard officials should be allowed to go in heavy — preferably with shotguns and assault rifles — and fleeing Chinese boats should be fired upon. The fine should look a lot better if the other option is getting shot and/or blown out of the water.
UPDATE: Speaking of blowing people out of the water, I’ve just about had it with this shit:
A Russian warship on Friday rushed to intercept a Ukrainian vessel carrying 33 battle tanks and a hoard of ammunition that was seized by pirates off the Horn of Africa — a bold hijacking that again heightened fears about surging piracy and high-seas terrorism.
A U.S. warship is tracking the vessel but there has been no decision about intercepting it, U.S. Defense Department officials said.
“I think we’re looking at the full range of options here,” Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman said.
Korea, as you well know, has been victimized more than once by Somalia pirates, most recently on Sept 10.
And Piratestan is booming as a result:
The coastal region of Puntland is booming.
Fancy houses are being built, expensive cars are being bought - all of this in a country that has not had a functioning central government for nearly 20 years.
Observers say pirates made about $30m from ransom payments last year - far more than the annual budget of Puntland, which is about $20m.
When the president of Puntland, Adde Musa, was asked about the reported wealth of pirates and their associates, he said: “It’s more than true”.
Can someone explain to me why the town of Eyl has not been given a good, Victorian-age sacking yet? Where are the Robert Napiers of the world when you need them? No need for protracted and costly “humanitarian interventions” or “statebuilding.” Bring back the art of the punitive expedition — I want to see US, British, French, Korean and Russian marines landing on the coast, burning the town, and returning to their ships with baggage trains full of BMWs and flat-screen TVs.
Repeat as necessary.
I just hope they’re wearing pith helmets when they do it.
UPDATE 2: Returning from Imperial-age sackings of Somali pirate towns to Chinese fishermen, GI Korea has a long post on the incident. Personally, I think he overestimates the Korean public’s ability to forgive China, but his greater message — that the governments overreacts to Japan and does dick when the Chinese engage in even greater assaults on Korean sovereignty and honor, is largely correct. While Korea fucks around with military drills in the East Sea, fishermen’s livelihoods are being threatened and Coast Guard officials lives put at risk in the West Sea.
To be fair, though, it should be pointed out that Korean fishermen are not necessarily adverse to engaging in similar hijinks — see, for example, the Great East Sea Tug of War of June 2005 (when Korean and Japanese coast guard vessels clashed after a Korean fishing boat busted for fishing in the Japanese EEZ fled into Korean waters carried two Japanese Coast Guard personnel) or the 1998 kidnapping of a Kiribati policeman by a Korean fishing boat that fled harbor for Korea.
66 Comments
It is outrageous. Chinese fishermen seem to be one small step away from being Somali pirates. Korea has to defend its industry - and, considering the story of Mr.Park - its officials from this threat.
Korea does not have the grapes to offend Big Brother China.
Well, at least, we can take some comfort in the fact that Dokdo is protected from a Japanese invasion by armed guards. Of course, Dokdo’s guards, like many of those guarding Korea’s military bases, may just have blanks in their guns.
Even if South Korea’s coast guard officers are carrying side arms, I kind of doubt that they are loaded with real bullets. It seems like South Korea is more afraid of its military men and women shooting themselves or others rather than their being shot by an enemy. Of course, if terrorists or armed North Koreans were to raid a South Korean military base, those blank cartridges would not do the gate guards much good.
If President Lee does not call in the Chinese ambassador to give him an earful over this he’s worse than Roh and KDJ.
Just yesterday at GI Korea’s blog I mentioned Roh’s stupid “diplomatic war” comment and what an overreaction it was to a little town in Japan celebrating “Takeshima Day,” and now we’ll see if the murder of a Korean serving his country gets even the slightest protest.
Well, I’m not sure what good it would do to call up the Chinese ambassador over this — from what I gather, Chinese law enforcement is cracking down, and the number of boats fishing in Korean waters is way down, so the problem doesn’t appear to be the Chinese government. It seems to me the problem is the Chinese fishing community, and there’s an easy solution to it — start sinking Chinese fishing boats that try to run.
Marmot, Korea has protested to Japan at the ambassador level over fishing disputes, I’d say the murder of a Coast Guard member is more serious than that.
“A Mokpo Coast Guard official said officers have already been given pullet-proof vests, rubber bullet guns and tactical batons, but with Chinese crews growing more high-handed, officers needed to be allowed to use their guns…”
Hadn’t heard that those fishermen were attacking the Coast Guard with young chickens…..
Now you know why Koreans have such a bad prejudice against the Chinese and their reputations. It’s very much deserved. Just take a good look at this example. This doesn’t even begin to tell the whole story that consists of a long list of outrageous behaviors. Frankly, I’m getting sick of these people and the name “China”.
MBC TV had a brief 1 minute story on this. It’s as if they don’t want to show this story, but can’t be helped.
The conservative dailies Cho-Joong-Dong on the other hand, are devoting much more coverage.
It looks like the story will be buried by the liberals in charge of the Korean media.
Don’t expect any candle light vigils.
Blaming China for the depleted fish stocks in the ‘West Sea’? It wouldn’t be any less ridiculous if Canada blamed Spanish fisherman for the increasingly depleted stocks in the Great Banks.
PS. Korean fishing vessels have been known to fish within Canadian waters illegally.
“PS. Korean fishing vessels have been known to fish within Canadian waters illegally.”
Do they beat up Canadian coast guards with metal pipes and even kill them?
Sonagi should do a little translation of the Chinese internet. I’m sure you’d be amused at some of what they’re saying about this incident.
“Blaming China for the depleted fish stocks in the ‘West Sea’? It wouldn’t be any less ridiculous if Canada blamed Spanish fisherman for the increasingly depleted stocks in the Great Banks.”
In both cases, it isn’t ridiculous at all. Canada has fired on/boarded Spanish fishing ships before. Rightfully so. As much as I like thr Spanish, they are notorious poachers. As much as I enjoy getting a seafood-based “menu del dia” for around $10 in Spain, there isn’t any seafood close to home…
I can’t believe no one has realized the obvious. Hire illegal Chinese fishermen and arm them to sail freighters traversing the coast of Somalia.
How is it that the Coast Guard disengaged the fishing boats without ensuring that all of its boarding/attempting-to-board crewmembers were accounted for? I cannot be reading that correctly, can I?
And one more question for the group - is it nearly inconceivable to you that a Coast Guard boat isn’t armed? What if the fishing boat had been NK infiltrators?
That seems like a serious case of ignorance to not have your first line of defense armed with modern effective weapons….ah, it’s probably that, despite years of study and interest in the Korean psyche, I still don’t understand the ’special’ circumstances under which The Han Land operates under.
As CM noted, can’t wait to see how Chinese netizens would manipulate this incident.
These fishing boats could be disappeared and their crews sent to sleep with the fishes without protest from China, which will not acknowledge them as Chinese if they are doing anything illegal.
How will the Chinese manipulate it?
Is it possible that the incident occurred in waters they consider part of their EEZ, since their EEZ claim is based on continental shelf, not equidistant principle?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socotra_Rock#Dispute
“And one more question for the group - is it nearly inconceivable to you that a Coast Guard boat isn’t armed? What if the fishing boat had been NK infiltrators?”
You are misunderstanding. There is no ignorance here. Korean coast guards are not supposed to be armed when dealing with the Chinese. The ROK government is too chicken shit to get into a diplomatic conflict with the Chinese government. In effect, the Korean coast guards are sacrificial lambs or pawns for the greater good (Korean government reasoning).
Let’s say the Korean Coast Guards are armed, and there’s an incident where Chinese boat gets sunk and its crew killed. Chinese will not just simply sit by doing nothing. They will claim the Chinese were not in Korean waters, while some Chinese will claim the waters off Korea are Chinese territory. Korea is in a weaker position vis a vie the Chinese.
@cm:
I had a quick look at Huanqiu and didn’t see any commentary on the incident in the international BBS, probably because the story hasn’t yet been reported in the domestic media. I couldn’t find any related headlines in the most recent international news stories at Huanqiu.
What they will claim is irrelevant. What the S.Koreans should be doing is blowing them out of the water.
China is in no position to challenge anyone at the moment, militarily or otherwise.
I’m guessing the Korean govt is shit all to maintain access to Chinese markets in the future. The Chinese wont give it up easily, and I’ll bet any money that Korea will have to give up something precious.
Korea is better off breaking relations off with China. There is a physical limit to the amount of trade a country can do and there are plenty of developing countries such as South Asia’s future population of 2.5 billion.
This is very shortsighted of the govt, but who knows the conservatives just came into power so they might not have had a chance to fix everything the liberals fucked up.
As for the comparison between Japan and China the liberals back then, used the Dokdo issue to stir emotions to keep them back into power.
China is a whole different matter. I’m guessing the power elite of Korea do not want to break off relations with China, so I seriously doubt anything will happen to those Chinese fishermen.
#20, Sonagi, try sohu.com.
Thanks.
Korean coast guards are not supposed to be armed when dealing with the Chinese.
Are you sure about that? This is the problem with the Kyopos here. They pass off something that is not true as fact, which causes misunderstanding by the non-Koreans.
Anyway moving on, the Korean Coast Guard vessel in question, Patrol Vessel No. 3003 is armed with a 20mm Vulcan cannon(the same one that armed “Blue Thunder”) and four M60 30 cal machine guns. These are more than enough to blow suspect boats out of the water or at the least cause a lot of damage. The ship also carries small arms, but for some political reasons, they are left behind during boarding operations.
Of course the KCG SWAT teams carry guns when they board suspect vessels, however the team that tried to board the Chinese boat in question weren’t members of the SWAT teams.
I’m in agreement with the Marmot here. Let the KCG use the tools that are already at their disposal. No need to hold them back.
At what point do you kill them all (i.e., “blow them out of the water”)?
Do you kill them all when you discover them illegally fishing in your EEZ? That’s just plain murder.
Do you blow them out of the water as they’re fleeing with your man missing? Maybe not when your man may be alive on board.
Do you blow them out of the water when you’ve found their boat again? Not if there’s a possibility your man is alive on board.
Do you put them back on their boat and blow them out of the water after you’ve discovered the body of your man? That would be premeditated murder again.
The ROK Coast Guard should be armed and get on those boats with rifles ready, but “blowing them out of the water” invites excessive response to your own countrymen’s boats when they are caught in Chinese waters, whether they’re doing something wrong or not.
“Are you sure about that? This is the problem with the Kyopos here. They pass off something that is not true as fact, which causes misunderstanding by the non-Koreans.”
There’s no need to get so hostile buddy. Passing off misinformation isn’t strictly the domain of Kyopos here, expats are also guilty of it. And if there’s any misunderstanding, it certainly wasn’t intentional. So go fuck off, shit face.
So how the fuck do you expect those Korean coast guards who can’t take those big guns that you mention with them, when they board those Chinese ships, detain these guys? Let me guess, just blow them out of the water? Arm chair warrior, you’re so tough and mean.
There’s no need to get so hostile buddy. So go fuck off, shit face.
Me thinks that you cm are the one getting way too hostile. What can’t you take a little disagreement? Oh I forgot, you can’t.
So how the fuck do you expect those Korean coast guards who can’t take those big guns that you mention with them, when they board those Chinese ships, detain these guys?
This certainly shows that you don’t read other people’s comments or don’t understand the issue completely. The big (20mm)gun is bolted on to the patrol vessel which I might add weighs 3,000 tons. This means that the big gun is on the vessel itself when it intercepts the boats in question, and being big the coast guardsmen can’t remove it and put it back on without the help of a heavy crane. In addition I don’t think putting it on a rigid inflatable is feasible to say the least. Of course the coast guardsmen could take the small guns, which are not bolted on, with them if they are allowed to do so.
Let me guess, just blow them out of the water? Arm chair warrior, you’re so tough and mean.
Read my comment again. Although I agree with the Marmot in letting the coast guardsmen carry guns, I don’t call for blowing them out of the water. The Marmot does however call for the blowing them out of the water, as suggested in the title. So I guess you’re taking shots at the Marmot too.
“Me thinks that you cm are the one getting way too hostile. What can’t you take a little disagreement? Oh I forgot, you can’t.”
You started it buddy. And it wasn’t “a little disagreement”. I’m getting sick of the pigeon holing of Kyopos around here, and I’ve had enough of it. It’s the old insolent attitude “your opinion don’t mean anything because you’re just a Kyopo deliberately spreading misinformation”. Because you see, I don’t exactly appreciate my opinions getting dismissed based on my cultural background. And by the way who the hell are you? You appeared out of nowhere.
Going back to the subject, how exactly am I wrong? Whether those coast guards have big or small guns are a moot point. They can’t take them with them when they board those ships. That’s a fact. How exactly was I trying to spread misunderstanding to the expat population?
cm (cyopo misleader):
Passing off misinformation isn’t strictly the domain of Kyopos here, expats are also guilty of it.
I want to believe that’s true, but it’s clear from your kyopo-ness that you’re trying to pass off something that is not true as fact. Stop causing misunderstanding!
/me roasts some marshmellows
for fucksakes, wjk, grow the hell up, and STOP using other people’s names to post comments. you’re pissing in everyone’s pool. (and if anyone else is inciting wjk by doing the same, please lay off).
Linkd, who is wjk posting as?
fuck off, Canuk,
I, wjk, never used, use, or will use someone else’s name to post.
KrZ is using “wjk”, and posing as “wjk”.
fuck off Linkd. Fuck you, Linkd.
Fuck tard.
wjk always has the Mets logo.
KrZ doesn’t.
Check out the Mets avatar on the “KrZ” comment #30 above, as well as wjk’s temper tantrum in the open thread #19.
Brat.
you PROOF READ for a living ?
I don’t see a Mets avatar there on #30.
Fuck head.
Shall I mail you a screen shot, brat? What’s your address?
Check out the Mets avatar on the “KrZ” comment #30 above, as well as wjk’s temper tantrum in the open thread #19.
I noticed that too:
http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/.....ent-194709
But I don’t notice it when I change browsers. Are you using Firefox?
Also it is possible for someone to be messing with your head in order to make wjk look bad. I’m sure that’s happened plenty of times before. It’s probably a screw-up in the software but if a real person is behind it, that doesn’t definitely mean it’s wjk or KrZ.
wjk hacked my account ;_;
Forget browsers… looking at this chronologically, KrZ’s avatar was his mug this morning, then the Mets logo, and now his 하!하! patriot. Maybe KrZ was just engaging in a little high jinks.
Every medium has its drawbacks, gentlemen. TO return to topic though, this incident brings light to bear on the elephant in the room of Northeast Asian geopolitics. While it is possible to get carried away with the heat of the moment, there are underlying issues that are apparent in this unfortunate affair.
Even thought Lee Myong-bak has articulated policies toward the United States, Japan, and North Korea, he has been strangely silent on defining his administration’s relationship with China. Although his summit in Beijing may have provided clues, Lee’s reticence could reflect the South Korean population’s ambivalence toward a country that is its biggest trading partner and also its greatest long-term economic and geo-strategic challenge.
In May, Cheong Wha Dae announced ahead of President Lee’s visit to Beijing that he will “lay the framework for developing future-oriented South Korea-China relations by taking the overall bilateral relationship of cooperation to a higher level partnership.” The use of the term “strategic relationship” by both countries is significant since it marks an upgrade from previous descriptors. The two countries merely had a “friendship and cooperative relationship” upon diplomatic recognition in 1992.
That was upgraded to “collaborative partner” under President Kim Dae-jung and then to “comprehensive collaborative partner” during Roh Moo-hyun’s administration. Beijing’s agreement to utilize “strategic relationship” — which it had rejected under President Roh – demonstrates an effort to expand ties with Seoul not only economically but also in diplomatic and security areas.
One could also say it appears aimed at countering Lee Myung-bak’s emphasis on strengthening it traditional sycophantic ties with the United States. Official economic cooperation is a common currency in regional engagement, and a large South Korean business delegation ensured business played a prominent role during Lee’s China visit.
However, the bloom is off the Chinese rose. The incident of Chinese students violently attacking peaceful demonstrators during the Olympic torch relay in Seoul resurrected South Korean concerns over Chinese nationalism.
The new economic reality of China displacing the U.S. as South Korea’s predominant trading partner in 2003 was seen as reflecting Seoul’s political intent to distance itself from Washington. Together with growing strains in the South Korea-U.S. relationship, Seoul’s shift in trading priorities reinforces the view that its future will be more closely aligned with China. But Beijing’s heavy-handed attempts earlier this decade to usurp Goguryeo, a key component of Korean history, triggered a heretofore unobserved level of suspicion about China. Koreans fear that Beijing’s claiming as its own the ancient Goguryeo Kingdom — which encompassed present-day North Korea and portions of China’s northeast provinces – is part of a strategy to usurp Korean territory after reunification.
The need to counter China’s growing economic influence over North Korea was one justification for the previous South Korean administrations’ largely unconditional engagement policy toward Pyongyang. Kim Dae-jung has warned that without such engagement, North Korea risks becoming China’s fourth northeastern province.
South Korea’s economy is become increasingly dependent on the strength of China’s economic growth, and any contraction of the Chinese economy would cripple South Korea’s economy. When Beijing announced in 2004 it intended to slow down China’s economy to prevent it from overheating, South Korean financial markets and the won currency plummeted. Even now, South Korean economists note the country’s economy is even increasingly more dependent on China’s economic well-being.
Korean investment in China proves to be a double-edged sword, since it has also diminished South Korea’s competitive advantage. South Korea’s under-investment in research and development has led to a dwindling technological lead over China. Korea Development Bank estimated in 2006 that China’s technological level had already reached 95 percent that of Korea’s and could surpass it in almost all areas in five years.
Seoul cannot turn its back on Beijing nor can it avoid some degree of dependency on the middle kingdom’s economy. But these political and economic developments have calmed the China fever that earlier gripped South Korea and have prompted calls to re-evaluate the growing strategic relationship with China.
President Lee has declared his core foreign policy goal is to repair Seoul’s relations with Washington. In giving the South Korea-U.S. relationship primacy, Lee will reverse Roh’s subjugation of foreign affairs to further improve inter-Korean ties.
Lee fully embraces the bilateral military alliance with the U.S.A. as the foundation of South Korean security — an approach that flatly rejects Roh’s old vision of Seoul as some sort of balancer between the U.S. and China. Yet, Seoul’s future relationship with Beijing is still a mystery. It is wise to think it will be predominantly economically focused, though necessarily balanced between the two countries as economic partners and competitors.
While Lee may have sought Chinese assistance in the six-party talks to further progress toward North Korean denuclearization, he still sees close trilateral coordination with the U.S. and Japan as more in line with South Korean goals. Wary of Chinese intentions toward the Korean Peninsula, Seoul will also seek to revitalize its bilateral outreach to North Korea though with newly imposed conditions of conditionality, reciprocity, and transparency for Pyongyang.
President Lee’s assumed willingness to advocate more forcefully on behalf of North Korean refugees, including those hiding in northeast China, raises the potential for future friction in the bilateral relationship with Beijing. Finally, as Seoul and Washington work to develop a blueprint for a new strategic military alliance, Seoul could still unobtrusively adopt a long-term hedging strategy against China.
Despite uncertainty surrounding of Beijing’s intentions, China’s increasing military capabilities cast a long shadow over the region, and Seoul is, naturally, very reticent to name China as a potential security threat. Still, some recent South Korean military purchases are better suited for addressing post-unification threats than for dealing with North Korea.
Indeed, in this sock-puppety world, nothing is definite. A shame, really, especially in this environment, where personal/racial/cultural identity is so important to so many people.
#25: no need to “blow them out of the water” if the KCG are trying to board them. Board them as usual and if the crew tries their shit with weapons and resists with all force they have, make sure there are snipers on the KCG boat to take them out with rubber bullets and sandbags (ie. non-lethally). They CONTINUE to resist after a few crew members get taken out of the fight? *shrug* scuttle the boat and leave them floating in their dingheys overnight. Leave them there long enough, they’ll come along with a fight.
it’s not a maybe,
KrZ was pretending to be me.
there’s precedent here that this is at least one thing one should not do.
KrZ, you were pretending to be me.
KrZ, you should bear the consequences for that.
Because you see, I don’t exactly appreciate my opinions getting dismissed based on my cultural background.
You once claimed that Kyopos are “bridges” between Koreans and non-Koreans. Which can be translated as “we know much about Korea and the countries that we are residing in and thus we’re trying to break down the barriers of misunderstanding between two cultures”
Now I see this as using your “cultural background” to express your opinions or info about Korea to non-Koreans, and vice versa. So if your opinions and info are wrong, well there’s no doubt that your “cultural background” will come into question.
Whether those coast guards have big or small guns are a moot point. They can’t take them with them when they board those ships. That’s a fact. How exactly was I trying to spread misunderstanding to the expat population?
Before you mentioned the following;
“Korean coast guards are not supposed to be armed when dealing with the Chinese.”
Thru that statement you gave the impression that the KCG ships are unarmed, when in fact they are. The KCG simply doesn’t use them when confronting Chinese fishing boats. As for small arms they are left behind as I mentioned several times.
When I confronted with the wrong info, you overreacted as per your MO and changed the statement to
“those Korean coast guards who can’t take those big guns that you mention with them, when they board those Chinese ships”
and then to
“They can’t take them with them when they board those ships.”
Which is correct because they can’t take the small arms (not the big guns, which BTW are bolted down) on those ships when they board the Chinese boats.
So you see the first statement was wrong and then when confronted twice you changed it twice. And you never admitted that your first statement was wrong in the first place.
http://www.internetisseriousbusiness.com/
AK, I’m really speechless with words. You are right, Kyopos are bad bad people. It was foolish of me to not realize it. From now on, I will remain silent and not utter a word. You happy now? You guys can now go on participating without being bothered by one less evil Kyopo. I’m done from here. (Yay! a cheer goes up at Marmot’s).
#41 Finally, as Seoul and Washington work to develop a blueprint for a new strategic military alliance, Seoul could still unobtrusively adopt a long-term hedging strategy against China.
I don’t see how Seoul could do otherwise, given the size of its neighbor to the west.
“Well, I’m not sure what good it would do to call up the Chinese ambassador over this — from what I gather, Chinese law enforcement is cracking down, and the number of boats fishing in Korean waters is way down, so the problem doesn’t appear to be the Chinese government.”
Then, there’s really no excuse not to arm the Coast Guard. After all, fishermen have been known to smuggle drugs, and drug smugglers aren’t the kind to give up without a fight.
What the hell? I’m out for a day and this is what I come back to? For fuck’s sake, cut it out with the kyopo-baiting. Cm’s kyoponess had as much to do with his comment as his being Canadian, so why even bring it up?
Just ignore the kyopo-baiting and let me handle it, cm. No need to let it get to you — you’re one of my best commenters, and your commentary is very much appreciated by most of the readers of this blog.
KrZ, wjk — I don’t know what’s going on, and I’m too tired right now to find out, but whoever’s doing what, please stop.
I’m really speechless with words. You are right, Kyopos are bad bad people.
You’re speechless because of my comment? Well it seems you didn’t read user-81’s comment #29. And you’re putting words in my mouth. I said you were bad not Kyopos in general.
you’re one of my best commenters,
IMO, someone who’s a “best commenter” is someone who;
a) has a good grasp of the issue
b) knows both sides of the argument, not just one side
c) handles his/her opponents with grace
d) admits his/her mistakes
So I don’t know how someone who disses people who don’t agree with him, plays the victim card when confronted with his mistakes, and constantly posts links to the conservative dailies when they only tell the conservative half of the story can be considered “a best commenter”.
But I guess you have your own set of standards.
You’re right, I do.
And you’ve just been banned, AK/Mins.
Thanks Robert. I should have known it was “Mins”. I had the distinct impression that he was a Kyopo himself. Nevertheless, I think I’ll reduce the number of my comments and my presence for now to cool off. Thanks.
Wow. Mins was using socks? What happened?
(25.) “At what point do you kill them all (i.e., “blow them out of the water”)?”
When they ’show you their ass’ as they are trying to run. This is also called “fleeing” - ask your English teacher about it.
Also, as Robert put it: “…fleeing Chinese boats should be fired upon”. Were you raised on a hippy commune? Seriously - how could you not understand what Robert said?
AK wrote:
I think cm realized that I was in fact making fun of the nonsense you said in #24.
You talked about “the problem with the Kyopos here”, which is not just cm.
cm wrote:
I hope you stick around, cm. I was disappointed earlier when I read you were going silent.
AK was Mins, the guy who posted selective bits of water cooler talk to show how anti-American Koreans are? I’m not surprised that AK’s words are the work of Mins, but I am surprised that a Marmot’s Hole contributor was using that tactic to race-bait in the comments section.
But unless we’re using our real names on line, we’re all sock puppets at least a little bit. I’m pretty sure that cm, Mizar5, someguyinkorea, thekorean, sonagi, soondae, nappunsaram, iheartblueballs, wjk, Linkd, globalvillageidiot, wjk, pawikirogi, JK, slim, HouseisGOD, and so on, are not their real names, and user-81 is not my real name. The Marmot, Gerry, and even King Baeksu are among the few here who have chosen to not cloak themselves in anonymity and my hat’s off to them for making that choice even though most don’t choose it.
In the end it’s the words that matter. Anonymity provides a shield that can be abused, but AK was called out by cm (and I) for what he said, not because we thought he was Mins.
Darth Barbaganoosh:
“Fired upon” and “blown out of the water” are not the same thing.
BTW, since no one mentioned it, I thought Kerplunk’s #41 comment was interesting.
“I am surprised that a Marmot’s Hole contributor was using that tactic to race-bait in the comments section.
But unless we’re using our real names on line, we’re all sock puppets at least a little bit.”
Maybe, but since he/she was a contributor I’d say he/she broke Roger’s trust by using a sock to stir things up in a bad way.
“I’m not surprised that AK’s words are the work of Mins, but I am surprised that a Marmot’s Hole contributor was using that tactic to race-bait in the comments section.
But unless we’re using our real names on line, we’re all sock puppets at least a little bit.”
Yes, but being that he/she was a contributor it’s as if he/she had borrowed the keys to Robert’s car and made duplicates in order to soil the driver’s seat.
Delete #57…Who’s Roger?
#58: An alias or a pseudonym are in no way the same as a sockpuppet.
Frankly, I’m getting sick of these people and the name “China”.
Get grip cm. I treat this comment as typical young ignorant Korean or leftist Tibet fan (who doesn’t even give a crap about the Tibetian) who just act emotionally and most likely doesn’t know the Korean culture (Han character included) as well Asian histories well enough to understand the complexity of dealing with China but instead just reacting by taking out frustration (show as lack of confidence) to anything China. More of you will make Korea submit to China as many of you somehow think the Korean has battered wife syndrom with China. Being a satellite state to China maybe a bad idea if Korean like you second guess everything what China will do and that…too simplistic my boy..way too simplistic!! if you so interested in what Chinese netizen react to this incident, why NOT study the language yourself instead of asking Sonagi for translation.
KNOW YOUR ENEMY AND YOURSELF TO WIN EVERY SINGLE BATTLE!!!
Namuamitaba
(56.) ““Fired upon” and “blown out of the water” are not the same thing.”
They are when I’m on the trigger
(^_^)
Did anyone see the classic “Murphy’s War” yesterday on EBS? A reminder that 7.92mm and 20mm rounds won’t do shite to a robust boat, although they may cause casualties above the waterline.
As global population increase, more pressure is placed on the sea for its resources. Pollution from land and over-fishing are primary reasons for declining fish stocks. Proper management of your fishery resources is critical in maintaining annual catch.
There are several problems here that needs to be addressed. Culturally, Asian mindset with fishing is like, whatever you can catch with your ability, you can keep and eat. The concept of daily bag limit is pretty alien.
Economically, fisherman sees their catch as food on the table and money to pay rent, gas for the boat, and cloths for their kids. When pressed (rising petrol prices, declining catch), they will poach. They see it as their livelihood on the line.
But the bottom line is that we cannot allow hunters and fisherman to poach, because that would damage the game and fish stocks beyond recovery. So the only way to stop poachers is to impose crushing penalty on them, which makes the poachers even more desperate.
Enforcing laws means pointing the barrel of your gun at someone who is trying to defend his ability to feed his wife and kids with a stick or shovel in hand. Like working for the immigration department, it’s not a pleasant job and you’re making desperate people’s lives miserable, but it has to be done.
Give the coast guard and maritime police the tools and weapons they need to do their jobs. If it means having to shoot someone to defend yourself, so be it.
Wow. Robert J. Koehler you never fail to disappoint me.
3 Trackbacks
[...] Robert Koehler has a good run down on his site on how the violence perpetuated by the Chinese fishermen towards the Korean Coast Guard has only escalated over recent years because of the Coast Guard’s inability to use real force to arrest the illegal Chinese fishermen. The Chinese fishermen know that the Coast Guard personnel are not armed and thus attack them to the point now where one of the Coast Guard’s servicemembers are dead. To put this in context the Korean Coast Guard has had more personnel killed by hostile violence then Korea had killed in four years rotating thousands of ROK Army soldiers to Iraq. [...]
[...] I’d like to think the North Koreans were just taking my advice. [...]
[...] even heard of it — the Marmot’s Hole has it well covered (here and here and here). Once you’ve gotten done reading those, let’s do some quick [...]