Open Thread # 64

McCain’s pick of Palin kind of negates all the “experience” attacks.

Richardson, as far as I know, McCain has no executive experience either. Nor any experience in the private sector, or any experience other than that of a state employee living off the fat of the land.

Being a senator is “one breath away from the Presidency”?

As one of my friend commented, “An anti-gay, NRA member, pro-lifer from Alaska to be one 72 year old’s cancer cell away from the presidency? Good God.”

I was comparing Palin to Obama, which is more fair to Obama. I can’t take anyone seriously who wants to compare Obama’s experience to McCain’s.

But this is a debate not worth having; no one’s mind would be changed, and in the end someone on the left will end up making a McCain=Bush=Hitler comparison.

haha, fucking dogbert

Brendon – thank you. Do you know if sims are easily found?

Thanks for taking the time to explain that is such detail, much appreciated. I guess my own phone will still make the trip, but only for the alarm clock and books on MP3…

Parthenogenesis is a bit advanced for high school kids.

Wasn’t Mary fucked by, or, impregnated by… the HOLY GHOST? If so, parthenogenesis doesn’t follow and no other naturalist explanation may be possible. Besides, reading up on it just now, apparently in mammals parthenogenesis has only ever produced female clones of the mother. -Sayin!

Via RCP;
http://www.time-blog.com/real_clear_politics/

It’s also interesting that many seem to think Clinton’s support was all female and that Palin was selected merely to pander to that group. They are right when they believe that few Democratic women are going to be swayed by Palin’s gender. But they forget that many of those 18 million voters were rural and working class males. They will be at least interested in someone who actually fishes and hunts and has worked for a living (and is married to someone who works for a living) and who probably has never eaten arugula in her life. Palin will connect with those voters in a way that Obama and Biden never will. And the percentage she gains doesn’t have to be large to make a difference in key swing states such as Ohio, Pennsylvania, Michigan, etc.

“Palin has about the same amount of experience as Obama, but Obama has no executive experience, which I would call a qualitative advantage to the lady. From the reading I’ve done today, looks like she accomplished more in Alaska compared to the nothing Obama has accomplished in the senate (no significant legislation to his name at all).”

That’s all we need. More white trash in the white house.

“I stopped myself from bringing up some crazy theories about Jesus being a woman (that I heard near the campus corner).”

I’ve heard even crazier theories about Jesus being some kind of supernatural figure. Go figure.

More white trash in the white house.

Tells me what I need to know about you.

We’re talking about intelligence vs. stupidity.

All you need to answer; what has Obama accomplished in the senate. Not rhetoric – actual accomplishments, legislation.

A non-reply is fine since that sums it up.

Guten nacht…

Everybody’s off-topic! Get with it, dammit!

We’re supposed to be talking about that “Iowa community college president” who “has to resign after pictures of him (shirtless) pop up on the Internet where he’s pouring beer from a keg into a bikini clad young woman,” right?

So, what do I think on this serious issue?

Hey, c’mon, it’s just like Membership Training in Korea. What’s the problem?

And it reminds me of how I met my wife. She and I met on a train in Germany. Sounds a bit like “training,” don’t you think? And they drink a lot of beer in Germany.

Otherwise, there weren’t all that many similarities. Oh, right, she was also a woman.

Jeffery Hodges

* * *

Brendon – very interesting info. You are referring only to 3G phones having SIM cards, right? Is there any compatibility between the SIM card scheme here and in the USA? For example, when my current phone dies and I get a new 3G phone, could I just plug in my USA SIM card when going back home? It sure would be nice not to have to juggle two phones. But I guess if it works at all, it would be limited to those areas of the US with 3G service.

#38 Mizar5

Red herring, Hodges. I always suspected you might be a cultural Nazi.

Argumentum ad Nazium, Mizar. I always suspected you might be a cultural red herring. (winky, winky)

Hey there NES

lol

We all await the coming of the Obamessiah, Mr. Hopenchange. He shall win, Insh’Obamah!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xtNr5-up0U

“We are the ones we have been waiting for!”
-B. Hussein Obama, Masturbation for Dummies

“But, Mizar, it’s not nice to call Obama a bimbo, despite his lack of experience. That’s both sexist and racist.”

Neither racist or sexist, just demeaning, but then you weren’t really referring to Obama were you!

“Bimbo – used as a generalized term of disapproval especially for an attractive but vacuous person”

Oh, pardon me. Did I neglect to mention pointless and failed military adventurism, the domestic security debacle, loss of jobs, record deficits, a failed energy policy, the housing crisis, the weak dollar, widening income disparity, stagflation, declining wages, erosion of civil rights and condoning of torture, failure to deal with global warming, erosion of international influence, the wholesale and corrupt handing over of Washington to lobbyists, failure to address the growing healthcare crisis, failure to help get American industry back on track, dangerous imports, failure to ensure the safety of the food supply?

That would be the start of the list of real issues that McCain will assiduously avoid.

His answer to all of this – offshore drilling.

The hard truth about offshore drilling? As it remains economically unfeasible and unprofitable for big oil, funding this represents nothing more than a surreptitious means of channeling tax dollars to oil firms for token development that will not impact domestic supply and will only exacerbate the fossil fuel crisis over time.

If you think more of the same might not be so bad, bear in mind that “the same” a precipitously declining trajectory.

The dynamics of this election are abundantly clear to the space aliens. As we see it, USA has sprung a leak and as Obama rushes over to fix it, McCain is throwing red herrings at him.

“Otherwise, there weren’t all that many similarities. Oh, right, she was also a woman.”

Was?

Obama is an empty suit of endless platitudes. Although, I suppose he might get Rezco to help bail the US out of its financial crisis.

Mizar the logical liberal. Now that’s an oxymoron if I’ve ever heard one.

NES getting confused ignore last post, need some sleep!

“Argumentum ad Nazium” Que?

vs a foxymoron? is that what McCain was aiming for?

The problem with Jeffery Hodges is that his readership is all dead.

Arghaeri, good point. My wife (knock on wood) is still a woman.

It’s really a miracle. I knew she was special.

And is.

Jeffery Hodges

* * *

sock puppet: “This Mizar is really quite a genius.”

Flattery will get you nowhere. How about rephrasing that?

Concerning comment number 62, my wife’s not around at the moment. I was simply thinking of her.

Jeffery Hodges

* * *

This guy… Matt’s a friggin’ idiot. That’s all I have to say.

Almost missed this one:

“Red herring, Hodges. I always suspected you might be a cultural Nazi.”

Cultural? That’s an insult. Whenever I hear the word “culture,” I reach for my Browning.

I especially like his dramatic monologues…

Jeffery Hodges

* * *

“Of course the other variation is the “Which candidate would you like to have a beer with?’”

I’d rather smoke a joint with Bill Clinton.

You are the Mizar5 of politics, iheartblueballs.

NES, really? Where in Arizona? (glad to see a former fellow leatherskin! )

“I’d rather smoke a joint with Bill Clinton.”

Don’t do it Mizar. Bill might not inhale, but he will Bogart that joint.

Jeffery Hodges

* * *

“You’ll need to deal with them a bit more strictly. Consider incorporeal punishment.”

I’ve tried that. I just can’t tell if it’s working or not.

Jeffery Hodges

* * *

http://en.gravatar.com

Thanks, Arghaeri. Now I know why you chose the gopher icon.

That’s no gopher, it’s an internationally famous hamster called Penfold, sidekick to the super secret agent Dangermouse!!

That’s uncanny. I chose a silhouette!

Thanks, I owe you. I thought Dangermouse was a musician.

Brendon Carr” “Is it his close and continuing friendship with the murdering, terrorist bombers Bill Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn? (Or, perhaps, his decision to lie about said relationship, even in the face of incontrovertible evidence.”

Ayers was not a “murdering, terrorist bomber” but the voice of a radical movement that was vehemently opposed to the Vietnam war. There is no evidence of any murderous acts on his part. He is a Distinguished Professor at the University of Illinois at Chicago, College of Education, and was retained by Chicago Mayor Richard M. Daley to help found the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, a school reform program. He has served on the board of directors of the Woods Fund of Chicago, an anti-poverty, philanthropic foundation established in 1941.

As with Obama’s membership at the Baptist church, no smoking gun. Here’s some background about Obama’s interaction with Ayers (about which Obama did not lie):

“Obama served as president of the board of directors for the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, a large education-related nonprofit organization Ayers was instrumental in starting. The board disbursed grants to schools and raised private matching funds while Ayers worked with the operational arm of the effort. Both attended some board meetings in common starting in 1995, retreats, and at least one news conference together as the education program started. They continued to attend meetings together during the 1995-2001 period when the program was operating. Obama and Ayers served together for three years on the board of the Woods Fund of Chicago, an anti-poverty foundation established in 1941. Obama had joined the nine-member board in 1993, and had attended a dozen of the quarterly meetings together with Ayers in the three years up to 2002, when Obama left his position on the board, which Ayers chaired for two years. Laura S. Washington, chairwoman of the Woods Fund, said the small board had a collegial “friendly but businesslike” atmosphere, and met four times a year for a half-day, mostly to approve grants. The two also appeared together on academic panel discussions, including a 1997 University of Chicago discussion on juvenile justice. They again appeared in 2002 at an academic panel co-sponsored by the Chicago Public Library. One panel discussion in which they both appeared was organized by Obama’s wife, Michelle. Ayers donated $200 to Obama’s 2001 state senate campaign.”

At the Democratic Party primary debate in Philadelphia, when George Stephanopoulos questioned Obama about his association with Ayers, (after Sean Hannity suggested the question) Obama responded as follows:

“This is a guy who lives in my neighborhood, who’s a professor of English in Chicago who I know and who I have not received some official endorsement from. He’s not somebody who I exchange ideas from on a regular basis. And the notion that somehow as a consequence of me knowing somebody who engaged in detestable acts 40 years ago, when I was eight years old, somehow reflects on me and my values doesn’t make much sense, George.”

Question answered. No substance in your claim, Brendon.

Biden was the only candidate in all the debates that made any sense whatsoever. I have traveled in the USA recently and what stuck me is now the working stiffs are getting screwed over BIG TIME. They pay absurd levels of taxes, get no help for their kids, are losing houses left, right and centre and have some of most regressive bankruptcy I could ever imagine. Can’t decalare bankruptcy on credit card and hospital debt? Get real!

Schools suck for most people, the cities I saw were travesties of urban planning and more people than not are buried in a V-8 truck that they can’t afford to drive and is worth less than what is owed on it.

And people talk about “foreign policy” and “executive experience?” No wonder half the people don’t even bother to vote.

Or because Obama has a better jump shot.

Mizar

vs a foxymoron?

Obama has asked that people leave his wife out of it, Mizar.

P.S. “Foxymoron.” That’s clever.

Robert,

WTF has happened to your blog in the last month or so? Between the lack of good posts and the shit you’re allowing in the comment section, things have definitely taken a dive south here…

(jag skips to the end again.) Why do you think the price of gas was inflated to $4 a g? The cost of operating the current infrastructure didn’t suddenly increase. It was to pump huge profits into the oil co. coffers, so they can make even MORE profit from the marginal stuff. “Supply and demand” is just smoke and mirrors.”NIMBY” plays into Oil’s hands perfectly.Refineries? NIMBY! More drilling? NIMBY! More profits? Oil sez IMBY!
P.S. Immaculate conception reads like science fiction. Think of the energy costs to manipulate matter on a molecular/cellular scale without damaging the recipient. Ghost rape? Same energy costs.Come on. Wake up. We’re on our own.

….”to paraphrase Rumsfeld, you go to the White House with the candidate you have, not the candidate you want.”

Golden.Sums it right the fuck up.For both sides.

We’re doomed.

our God is more merciful than the Muslim one

None of the Abrahamic gods are merciful. Moses is particularly pitiless. For example, I believe he ordered parents to have their children stoned to death for indiscipline. Elsewhere the bible gives the thumbs up to human trafficking, ethnic cleansing, slavery and massacre. Not to mention its encouragement of sexual repression (which has led to untold thousands of pedophile victims at the hands of the priesthood). Very merciful.

What’s amazing is that people continue to put faith in such a brutal stone-age collection of man-made texts.

Personally I’d like to see Christianity extinguished. There is the argument that people should be allowed to believe in what they want, but whereas atheists and agnostics are happy to live and let live, as it were, the very nature of Christianity – and other monotheistic creeds – are intolerant of disbelief. Thus the missionaries, the door-knocks, the preaching. Also, and no less importantly, the godly – Christians, Muslims and Jews – all prey on children, who have no choice.

The world would be a better place without all of them.

@NES
Guilty as charged

The only flipside that people who want to do away with religion is that they do not wonder if a world without religion or belief in an afterlife or a human soul would be a better option. Thank Science for North Korea, the athiest’s people’s paradise.

#126

No kidding. Just like Albania.

wjk – Wow… stand up EVERY time I think they’re BSing? I think my legs would get tired.

Anyhow… book of revelations… Yeah… how many times has that been ‘fulfilled’ now? Hundreds? Here’s a hint: If you think the Book of Revelations is close to being ‘fulfilled’, you’re probably wrong.

#130. Even though you could not see my sarcasm you must ask yourself why do you obsess over a religion you do not believe in?

Just for the sake of precision: “Book of Revelation” — not “Book of Revelations.”

Jeffery Hodges

* * *

@ H.J. Hodges re #133:
By Jove, you’re right! I always thought it was “Book of Revelations” until your comment.

Honestly Christianity or the followings of the teachings of Joshua ben Joseph will probably never go “extinct”. The Romans tried to kill it, got owned, warped it into a pseudo-pagan faith with glittering temples (Catholicism), dictatorships tried the same. Unfortuantely though Christianity by Christ’s example was never meant to be an oppressive institution. But anyone who thinks that the Church and Christianity has not saved and helped millions of people throughout history and to this day is just as blind as the Christians they claim are.

@user-81, re. #135:

à votre service!

Jeffery Hodges

* * *

#103, We all know that republican source finders are instinctually good at witchunts.

#141,

You trust your pusher to tell you the truth about where he gets his stash?

I seriously doubt anyone from the McCain camp thinks hardcore Hellary supporters will go for Palin. A lot of social conservative Dems might, however.

And how can anyone say Palin doesn’t have enough experience, but support Obama? Should cause a terminal case of cognitive dissonance.

#145,

The old fart got a much younger and photogenic woman as his running mate…Are American voters really that gullible and shallow?

Even an Alaskan newspaper that praises Palin thinks she’s unsuitable for VP:

“She is an engaging and charming politician and I have nothing negative to say about her character, her tenacity or her service to our state.

I don’t even have major concerns about her performance as governor. She is smart and excels in dealing with people one-on-one.

I like what she did on oil taxes and think her gas line plan may work in the long run, though that won’t be clear for years.

This is one of the most stunning news events in the history of Alaska.

However, in no way does her year-and-a-half as governor of Alaska qualify her to be vice president or president of the United States.”

http://www.newsminer.com/news/2008/aug/29/palin-unqualified-serve-vice-president/

Note that she raised taxes on oil companies in her state, while McCain has repeatedly opposed raising taxes on oil companies. So much for the vetting process.

“Social conservative Dems,” whoever they are, arguably might go for Palin, but they certainly wouldn’t go for McCain, who is has been a social liberal until his recent move to the right on social issues to win over the conservative orthodoxy.

I was leaning toward McCain before he made this pandering choice of VP. I don’t want to see her in the White House and the thought of her assuming the presidency is disturbing.

“What? To fall for someone who makes great speeches but really has no accomplishments at all during his time in the senate? Let’s hope not.”

Obama has some quite impressive accomplishments. But since a simple google search can show you these, let’s address the real problem with this argument – that it is a red herring:

No one argues against the fact that these are no ordinary times, that America has reached a crisis point, a turning point from which there can be no turning back.

It can be the launching point for a time of great opportunity in which America will take the lead in establishing energy independence, rational health care, restoring the middle class and re-establishing national security and world leadership – things that statistics conclusively show have been devastated by the past Republican administrations, the policies McCain represents and stupidly defends.

The other alternative to this historic opportunity for progress is to let these challenges that threaten our way of life can go ignored. The country can again be distracted and the people split against one another by the pseudo issues of the neanderthal right, including drilling, guns and moralistic posturing.

The Bush-McCain policies have failed us miserably, and it is insanity to adhere to this outworn paradigm.

Solutions and vision are required. The bold initiatives the Democrats have proposed represent that vision.

This is not a matter of liberal vs. conservative or of Democrat vs. Republican. It is the simplest decision since entry into WWII – right vs. wrong.

In this equation, experience is not the salient variable, but a red herring. Judgment, vision, character and common sense are what matters. Obama has shown more of these qualities in his career than McCain has in his.

Experience? Tell me what experience the great statesman really had? Lincoln, Jefferson, Franklin Roosevelt, Kennedy, Martin Luther King, Susan B. Anthony, Elizabeth Cady Stanton, Mahatma Gandhi – did any of these great agents of change have any experience whatsoever in the momentous roles they were to play in history?

No, they did not. What they all shared is – as it was colorfully expressed by Bill Clinton at the convention – they were on the right side of history. As is Barach Obama.

McCain’s career shows that, yes, he is a fighter, a guy who stops at nothing to achieve that which he seeks, which is self-agrandisement.

His Admiral father bought his way into Army command. His wife bought his way into Arizona politics. His flirtation with Democrats bought him McCain Feingold. Corruption got him $112,000 in political contributions from Keating and his associates, lucrative investments and nine free trips at Keating’s expense, sometimes aboard Keating’s jet, to Keating’s opulent Bahamas retreat at Cat Cay.

McCain, aside from 5 hard years, has enjoyed a life of prosperity and luxury that has enabled him to launch a bid for the Presidential spot.

But there has not been very much substance associated with his political record. For a Washington insider who should have accomplished much more than Obama, in his shorter political career, the fact that he has not is frankly absurd. Even this would be excusable if he had shown the judgment, temperment or vision to lead the country through what is potentially the most pivotal time in history. But he has come up empty here too.

Why would anyone of any party or political philosophy gamble on such a sure loser?

To help point you in the right direction in terms of legislative accomplishments and positions of the candidates here are some links:

Where is this going? Well, heere are 2 quotes:

“in 2 years as a Senator, Obama authored 152 bills”

“In terms of getting things done, what’s John McCain ever accomplished? Beyond a minor, years-old procedural reform to the campaign finance system — nothing. And he’s had much more time in Washington in which to get something done. But in McCain’s past 25 years in congress he’s managed to author not a single piece of legislation that’s been signed into law that helps any real people with any real problems. He’s spent a lot of time posturing on the Sunday shows, and affiliated himself with a few pieces of modestly progressive legislation that didn’t get passed, and then disavowed all those bills.”

http://you.presscue.com/node/442

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/2/20/201332/807/36/458633

http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2008/02/20/watson_response/?source=refresh

http://www.tboforums.com/index.php/forums/viewthread/5374/P390/

http://www.launch3energy.com/?p=115

On GSM, Brendon is indeed correct. The 3G services offered by SK Telecom (“T” this and “T” that) and KTF (“Show”) are WCDMA, which, despite the name, is 3G GSM running on the 2100Mhz band.
Thus any GSM handset running on that band will run on either SK or KTF.
In addition if you unlock your USIM card (just go into SK Telecom – they do it for free on newer ones or give you a new USIM for W10000) you can pop it in any 3G phone and it will work on the SK Telecom Network and with your number.
There are a few issues with SMS and MMS, but if you have a Samsung handset you can go to Samsung A/S and they will flash the phone if there is a similar Korean model (think Blackjack for example) with the operator specific information.
There may be a small charge for this, but you should be able to haggle with your friendly Samsung tech rep.
I chucked my SK Teleocm USIM card in both the new Samsung i700 (3G, bells and whistles etc.) and a cheap Sony Ericsson burner I bought at 7/11 while in Singapore last month and both worked without issue.
Possible Problems: Overseas handsets are optimized to run on 2G for both power saving and coverage reasons. In Korea I have heard stories of 3G handsets running fine except for the battery running out very quickly (3G eats batteries for lunch) and also running hot.
Overall hopefully late this year or early next year we might see the entrance of the likes of Nokia and Sony Ericsson in Korea, but don’t count your chickens. Plus no iPhone for you, especially not until Korea gets an iTunes store, which, in the face of the likes of Melon and Bugs, is not going to happen anytime soon.

stafford, thanks for that info. I have an unlocked LG CU500, which may or may not work. I’ll test it out later in Sep or early Oct.

“Experince is useless unless you draw the right conclusions from it” Freddy The Great.
Go to http://www.realclearpolitics.com and read Reeves article on who is really prepared to be President.
Watching the MSNBC coverage about Obama I must confess I agree with Bill Maher, no friend of the conservatives, who said he thought that MSNBC commentators “wanted to have sex with Obama”
I do believe that Mathews had an orgasm.
I not a particular fan of O’reilly, his yearly tirade about the war against Christmas is nonsensical but unlike Olberman, he does have folks on who disagree with him.

Richardson: “Mizar5, if you’re going to (falsely) accuse others of red herrings, it’s best not to follow-up with half a dozen of your own!”

Note: he followed that assertion with the following:

“Obama would be America’s Roh”

Give the illogical enough rope…

Richardson, your abject failure to come up with a single valid argument is disappointing.

I was not looking for you to concede with a whimper but was holding out for even a modicum of intelligence from the anti-Obamans, a single serious response.

I suppose you have highlighted a shameful and increasingly obvious dimension of the debate: ignorance vs. intellect.

“You lefties will be crying racism in your Wheaties when the substance-free Obamessiah goes down in November.”

Where does one even begin to deconstruct an argument that is constructed entirely of fallacies, that is, a “substance-free” argument whose entire premise is predicated on a willful ignorance of the facts?

Does one respond by reiterating the facts, which, once ignored, are likely to be disregarded once again? Or does one just give them more rope?

While the extent of the ignorance is more daunting than even I imagined, the consolation is that such arguments can only drive thoughtful swing voters into the Obama camp.

DNC looked too “black”. It was not a rainbow as I wanted it to be.

Palin’s husband is a part Eskimo. As a KA, I feel a kinship toward Eskimos.

Yeah, it looks more and more like I will abandon my black brother and switch to the wife of an Eskimo.

OK then, to summarize, I have consistently challenged you Obama haters to produce a single valid argument to support your visceral opposition to his candidacy. I have contributed detailed factual arguments to refute the red herrings and distortions upon which these attacks have been based, and still there has been no single credible response or factual arguments to the contrary. Only yo mamma type responses.

I am astounded by the lack of depth or thought here.

I am no “liberal socialist” or “Obama worshiper” but an extreme moderate who has noted the actual statistics showing the clear trend lines underscoring the disparity of wealth in Republican vs. Democratic administrations. Google “economic inequality” or the “Gini” index . Even the staunchest Republicans have access to this information and thus the Obamican phenomenon.

If all you can do is point to red herrings such as Chris Matthews’ response to Obama while willfully ignoring any of the significant issues, then you have some homework to do.

Vote your conscience. But make it an informed decision.

Thank you for the constructive criticism, Sonagi, my apologies. No insult taken. Wjk is one of my sock puppets whom I employ to make me look more thoughtful – the Watson to my Holmes.

Richardson, I call your bluff and challenge you to cite a single red herring by Mizar5. And leave wjk alone. He’ll say what I want him to.

“ ‘…Bush-McCain policies…” That whole line of reasoning is clearly an introduction of irrelevant misdirection that attempts to incorrectly frame McCain. It’s ludicrous to attempt to portray the two as hand-in-glove when there have been so many differences.”

Better. That at least appears to lay the groundwork for a viable argument, assuming you can support it.

But McCain voted With Bush voted with George Bush 95 percent of the time – 100 Percent Of the time In 2008.
http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/is_it_true_john_mccain_voted_with.html

Neither the Obama supporters or the McCain supporters at MH are providing anything of substance for their candidate or against the other. It looks mostly like personal assertion and regurgitation of talking points from preaching-to-the-converted media sources.

You’ve all decided who you want and you’ve got an argument that convinces yourself why you’re doing it. But that’s all it is. It’s not compelling to anyone else.

I was just about to reprint that, Richarson. So I’ll take it further:

When doing so, they may wish to consider that Obama’s votes were in line with the president’s position 40 percent of the time in 2007. That shouldn’t be terribly surprising. Even the Senate’s Democratic leader, Harry Reid of Nevada, voted with Bush 39 percent of the time last year, according to the way Congressional Quarterly rates the votes.

The McCain campaign points out that Obama told a local TV interviewer recently that “the only bills that I voted for, for the most part, since I’ve been in the Senate were introduced by Republicans with George Bush.” Obama was actually wrong about that. In 2006 he voted alongside the president 49 percent of the time, and in 2005, the year before Democrats took control of the Senate, Obama voted with the president only 33 percent of the time.

49%? I’m not voting for Obama! Half the time he votes with the president!

Richardson: “Selective quoting to remove context is still being dishonest, Mizar.”

Which is why I did the honest thing in pointing you to an actual source, which, incidentally, you haven’t done once. All you do is react, which is pretty much summarizes the McCain strategy so far – short on contributions, long on criticisms.

Interestingly, you actually played into my hands by conceding my point that McCain voted with Bush 95% of the time while clinging to the desperate retort that there was one year in which he did so only 77% of the time.

Richardson, when are you going to bring something of substance to the conversation?

user-81: “Neither the Obama supporters or the McCain supporters at MH are providing anything of substance for their candidate or against the other.”

Nonsense. You are not a very good listener, are you? You can start by reviewing my posts here which present some of the substantive proposals of the Democrats as well as the horrendous outcomes of the last 8 years. Then you might try googling it yourself.

Obama’s campaign is based on substance, while McCain’s is reactive and ad hominem. Do your homework.

Which is why I did the honest thing in pointing you to an actual source…

So it’s ok to be dishonest about something as long as you link to the truth?

I think I’m done responding to trolls, at least for this thread.

#96 Brendon

If Obama were a man of judgment and character, he wouldn’t be caught dead on the same public bus with these two.

I’m confused; I thought those were the kinds of people who usually ended up dead when caught with those two…

NES; impressive!

@ Mizar5 re #185 (“Nonsense. You are not a very good listener, are you?”)

No. You’re just not as good a talker as you think you are.

Most of the people at MH are throwing up assertions obtained from their adherence to media sources that reflect their own biases which in turn were formulated from those media sources. On top of that, they are usually talking about what’s wrong with the other guy/gal instead of what’s good about their own candidate.

When folks conflate Bush with McCain, I tune them out. When other folks label Obama a racist because of that pastor, I assume they have nothing of real significance to say.

There is an interesting article on Salon by Glenn Greenwald about how the DNC has been virtually devoid of substantial criticism of the administration and also of John McCain, just like during the last one (when Kerry lost).

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/08/28/dnc/index.html

The republicans are going to have to run a savage campaign to get geriatric warmonger and war criminal that “bombed women and children” McCain to win this election. (That is an actual quote from McCain himself)

As for questions about Obama’s experience or qualifications for the job, well, obviously he doesn’t have any.

shakuhachi: “but since he also believes torture is OK (as long as it is not the Vietnamese doing it to him), it must be legit.”

What do you mean “he also believes torture is OK”?

McCain has long argued that the Bush Administration overstepped its legal authority by approving techniques like waterboarding, and has successfully championed two efforts to try to limit the White House to the plain language of international treaties, which ban cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment. McCain has also spoken in opposition to other techniques in the CIA arsenal like sleep deprivation and the use of stress positions, both of which were employed by the North Vietnamese during McCain’s captivity as a prisoner of war and may still be employed by the CIA.
But on this latest piece of legislation, which arose during the heat of the primary campaign and may surface again later this month, McCain sided with Bush in opposing a further restriction of CIA techniques. Despite the claims of some partisans, McCain’s decision was not a flip-flop, but rather the continuation of a position he took in 2005 when he first championed a bill to restrict the Bush Administration’s ability to mistreat detainees.

http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1729891,00.html

Baduk, glad to see you here again, even though I respectfully disagree with you and you’re scaring me with the scenario of Palin running the country

You might want to look at this blog from an Alaskan about Palin before you go Eskimo:
http://mudflats.wordpress.com/

People will say he’s biased, yet I’d like to hear someone defend McCain’s choice of a VP who is currently under investigation for abuse of power, racked up a $20 million debt as mayor of a town of 5,000, and claims to be a “reformer” who was against the “bridge to nowhere” when in fact she publicly supported getting it built.

My inclination to vote for McCain ended when he picked this anti-abortion advocate of the Christian Right. I don’t want her in the White House.

And this article on McCain is definitely worth a read. He’s certainly a complex guy:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/01/AR2008080103032_pf.html

You need to build bridges to nowhere so that nowhere can become somewhere.

Nowhere doesn’t need to become somewhere. There are more than enough somewheres continuing to encroach into nowhere.

user-81:”When folks conflate Bush with McCain, I tune them out. When other folks label Obama a racist because of that pastor, I assume they have nothing of real significance to say.”

It’s nice to see that you’re half right (the 2nd half of your statement.) But nobody’s “conflating Bush with McCain” – only properly to pointing out their convergence on issues that have harmed the nation.

Richardson:”And there are folks who disagree with Olberman but he never has them on his show.The problem is that if one WANTS a “balanced” view of things its hard to find a TV show, except Nightly News with Jim Lehrer, where opposite points of view are experessed.”

Hypocrisy is one thing, but gumption is another. Here you compare an opinion show to a news program, as though people tuned into opinion shows for “balance,” which might pass for a category error had it not been for you calling me dishonest for demonstrating the convergence points of McCain’s and Bush’s records. Now, I understand that you dislike Olberman because you *disagree* with his views, and this is your right. But this “balance” canard?

wjk: “to paraphrase the great Obama, economic times are tough, so I’m going to give a tax break to 95% of Americans and do all my social programs. he sounds very Republican. save for the expansion of social programs. he is indirectly saying that Bush has been right all along with the tax cuts, the tax cuts he screamed bloody murder for, the tax cut that gave almost every American I know at least a couple hundred in cash back to thousands of dollars or even higher.please tell me, intellectually lazy people,how will he accomplish it?”

I’m proud of you wjk. You stay on point here.

But what’s good for the goose is good for the gander. According to the NYT:

“Both Democratic and Republican candidates are promising new spending measures, and both campaigns say that they will deal with this problem with spending cuts elsewhere, but they have yet to produce any clear numbers to back this up. What’s more, independent analysts are highly doubtful that Congress would allow major spending cuts.”

http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/2008/07/why_obama_offers_a_net_tax_cut.html

As for Bush’s tax cuts, they favor the wealthy, not the middle class.

“According to estimates by the Tax Policy Center — a liberal-oriented institution, but one with a reputation for scrupulous accuracy — the 2001 tax cut, once fully phased in, will deliver 42 percent of its benefits to the top 1 percent of the income distribution. (Roughly speaking, that means families earning more than $330,000 per year.) The 2003 tax cut delivers a somewhat smaller share to the top 1 percent, 29.1 percent, but within that concentrates its benefits on the really, really rich. Families with incomes over $1 million a year — a mere 0.13 percent of the population — will receive 17.3 percent of this year’s tax cut, more than the total received by the bottom 70 percent of American families. Indeed, the 2003 tax cut has already proved a major boon to some of America’s wealthiest people: corporations in which executives or a single family hold a large fraction of stocks are suddenly paying much bigger dividends, which are now taxed at only 15 percent no matter how high the income of their recipient.”

http://www.pkarchive.org/economy/TaxCutCon.html

Goodness, on a korean based blog, the majority of over 200 posts are on the minor politics of a country bordering the Japanese Great East Sea that a great many of us here give jack shit about.

Just, how long does this nightmare of a campaign go on for, its been months already.

I thought I might escape with BBC World News, but no even they’re obsessed with this stupid contest. The only thing of real interest will be to see if the next president can actually top the uselessness of the current incumbent.

Richardson: “Mizar; You’re confused and attributing comments to me that I didn’t make.”

http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/08/30/open-thread-63-2/#comment-188544

Richardson:”And there are folks who disagree with Olberman but he never has them on his show.The problem is tha…

I didn’t write that. Like I said, you’re confused.

Notlob,

Good stuff.

Cindy McCain says “anything that can raise the dead wood, whatever that maybe, is welcome.”.

She can save money on Viagra that John had to take for annual sex fest(=once). Industrial-strength medication that she had to custom order from illegal pharm lab.

Palin wants John to fantasize about her. That will deteriorate John’s health, hastening the final destination for John.

The Eskimo clan will rule the country. All children will be encourage to hunt animals and eat them while competing for the local beauty queen contest. Whatever it takes to survive, man.

I am just joking. I like the Palin girl. She is rad.

She is a Christian at heart. Or, at least, she pretends.

That is good enough for me. Obama and McCain do not even pretend.

America is a Christian country. Jesus rules!!!

“America is a Christian country. Jesus rules!!!”

So that’s the problem. Jesus has no executive experience.

“Mizar; You’re confused and attributing comments to me that I didn’t make.”

Shucks, you’ve been doing that for the general Korean population for years. :p

@ wjk re #227:
What media sources do you listen to. Step outside of the echo chamber for a while, really.

““America is a Christian country. Jesus rules!!!”

So that’s the problem. Jesus has no executive experience.”

Unless Thomas Jefferson and the other founding fathers have been grossly misunderstood for the past couple of centuries, Jesus (or any other deity or deity’s offspring) should have no role in the management of the United States, regardless of whatever experience he may have gained in his few years as a prophet.

“So that’s the problem. Jesus has no executive experience.”

He fed five thousand with a few loaves and a few fish, he must have aleast some pretty good organisational skills

Buy a Japanese car, vote for Obama? Burrow, please.

I’m planning to buy a used Hyundai, but I’m voting for Obama… So, should I do like a half-burrow thing?

Michael: “Palin is an extremist in more ways than one. Do you still want to go Eskimo?”

Palin is a disasterous choice that issue after issue diverges radically from the American center and flies in the face of the what the majority wants. Her stances on the issues are ill-informed, prescientific and out of step with both McCain and the public.

As Huffington points out, what a true maverick would look for is not a “fresh face” but fresh ideas. Instead we have an inexperienced candidate who should not be weighed down with baggage but – unbelievably – is.

Who (except the religious right which is in denial anyway)is not shaking their heads in disbelief at this choice?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arianna-huffington/saving-the-gop-and-the-un_b_122948.html.

wkj: “He converted you, he married you, he baptized your kids, baptized you, … Oh, I see, the White House is far more important.”

Yes it is. This election is bigger than the candidate and his personal affairs. It’s about pulling together as a nation to turn around a ship that has been brought to the brink.

I would disagree with that. I believe that in a democracy (in all its incarnations and versions), people in principle govern their nation rather than depending on the judgment of an individual. For better or worse, the ‘power’ to judge right and wrong are given to the people (even if the immediate power is delegated, the checks created by the voting system ultimately gives the decision-making power to the people). If this society as a whole decided that an individual or a group of elites should make important decisions, the society would have not fought for democracy, it would have fought for monarchy, dictatorship, or aristocracy.

The ‘true leaders don’t heed to the opinion of the people’ idea is one of the reasons why everything went to the shitters for the past 8 years.

Well, from a purely strategical viewpoint, I think she’s a bad choice ( in that she flies in the face of what the majority wants in a democracy), but you know, it’s not like I think Palin is the anti-christ.

And I understand some of the significant social changes in this country went against the will of the majority. I’m saying that, for better or worse, that’s how a democracy functions.

And since when did the Greens and Libertarians join forces?

“user-81, as for your rhetorical statement: “Is it OK to dodge moral responsibility for your actions that lead to pregnancy and the creation of a life just because the timing is inconvenient?” nobody’s arguing that point.”

If you think abortion is OK, then your actions make that argument.

Since 1980, five of the last seven elections went to the pro-life candidates. A super pro-life VP candidate doesn’t change the equation much. Palin has fired up a GOP base that McCain was not able to count on. It’s too early for predictions, but if Palin can keep her performances at least as good as in Minneapolis then I think Palin may have brought victory to McCain.

“Nowhere doesn’t need to become somewhere. There are more than enough somewheres continuing to encroach into nowhere.”

Cut back on the organic mushrooms

I’m voting for the Nader-Barr ticket.

Huh? They are not running together are they?

Anyway, either would be a better choice than what is on offer. Obama would nanny state you and tax you to death, while McCain would national debt and battlefield you to death. Nader and Barr are non facist choices.

Peter64, I don’t like fascism, but I am not an anti-fascist because that can have a different meaning.

Do you mean that anti-fascist is a codified political belief with identifiable features, whereas by not liking something allows the adoption of a political stance without the burden of remaining consistant with the beliefe.
I’m not sure what wthe difference between being anti-something and not liking something.
I think ascribing to an anti-ideology is akin to wanting to promote that anti-ideology in wider society, whereas not liking something is kind of a personal preference.
Infering from that, not liking something but not being anti that something could be akin to I don’t like it personally but if other people want to do it , so be it.
Like having a hot, sweaty guy cum deep into your rear love passage. I don’t like anal sex, but I’m not anti-anal sex.

Oh, I never heard of libertarian was an ideology. Maybe its this is my natural choice, because I like reading books too. Some people say libertarians are merely anarchists that only believe in their own rules, but I don’t know what that has to do with enjoying reading.

I’d like to dedicate this song to Sarah Palin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7aDstrDMf0