The Chosun Ilbo ran an interesting piece yesterday on Korean-Americans returning to the motherland for medical treatment.
Take, for instance, the example of 63-year-old Mr. Choe from LA, who recently had his hip joint replaced in a Seoul university hospital. He was diagnosed in a US hospital, but since he was uninsured, it cost about US$100,000 to get it replaced. So he came to Korea, got the surgery, and after two weeks of physical therapy returned to America — all for a grand total of 10 million won, or about US$10,000. With Korean health insurance, he needed to pay only 3 million of this, with the rest covered by insurance.
So, how was Mr. Choe, who’d never previously paid into Korea’s health insurance scheme, able to get local health insurance? Well, it was easy. When he entered Korea, as an overseas Korean national, he registered a relative’s address and his whereabouts. Then he visited the local insurance office and simply paid the monthly insurance rate of 59,800 won. With less than 60,000 won, he could earn insurance benefits of 7 million won. If he wants to continue getting insured treatment at a Korean hospital, all he need do is continue paying the monthly rate.
Until last year, overseas Koreans needed to pay a three-month total in order to get benefits, but when overseas Koreans looking to stay long-term complained of the excessive burden, the Health, Welfare and Family Ministry cut it down to one month from this year.
Needless to say, this is causing controversy, since Korean Koreans who’ve been paying into the system for years wonder about the fairness of it all. In addition, overseas Koreans are now flooding into Korea to receive treatment.
According to the National Health Insurance Corporation, overseas Koreans with Korean citizenship who reapplied for insurance for treatment at local hospitals after their insurance eligibility was canceled when they emigrated totaled 4,682 in 2005. In 2007, this doubled to 9,181, and through June of this year, 6,683 overseas Koreans reapplied for health insurance benefits.
If the trend holds, 13,300 overseas Koreans will apply for health insurance benefits this year. This means in three years, the total has tripled.
These patients are usually Korean-Americans with intestinal and liver cancer, which strike Koreans more than Americans. A professor at a local university hospital said overseas Korean patients have recently been increasing as they get news that treatment at Korean hospitals with much experience in treating Korean patients is better than in the United States. In fact, according to data published in international academic journals, the five year survival rate for stage 3 intestinal cancer was 50% at Korean hospitals, and only 30% in US ones.
The aging overseas Korean population is also a factor. A professor at Samsung Seoul Hospital said he’s getting older gyopo patients from the United States, Canada and Southeast Asia for treatment for old-folk diseases like joint replacements. He said these patients, who apparently have difficulty speaking the local languages, appear to be coming to Korea because they can communicate and get around better.
The problem, however, is that Korean Koreans MUST pay into the system regardless of whether they get treatment or not, while overseas Koreans need pay only when they get sick. After they get better, they go home and that’s the end of it. Moreover, these patients are getting concentrated treatment over a short period for serious diseases like cancer and heart disease. People point out, accordingly, that they are simply benefiting from the system without contributing anything financially.
Last year, the National Insurance Corporation got 25.2697 trillion won in dues, but paid out 25.5544 trillion won in benefits, producing a deficit of 284.7 billion won.
An official with the Council for Korea Overseas Medicine Promotion, which is trying to draw overseas patients to Korea, said there was a need to bring overseas Koreans back to Korea in order to help develop the local hospital industry, but considering the financial contributions made by local health insurance subscribers, the needed to be a more rational way to apply the national health insurance scheme to overseas Koreans.
Of the roughly 2.2—2.4 million Korean-Americans, some 400,000 are believed to be without insurance. In the United States, you have to purchase private health insurance, or get it at work. In the case of Korean-Americans running small businesses, the US$400—800 a month insurance premiums can be onerous, so many do not sign up for insurance.
Marmot’s Note: Korean immigrants apparently have it rough — first they get accused of scamming the US taxpayer (no need to say it — I often find that site reprehensible, too), and now they get accused of scamming the Korean taxpayer, too. Tough to be a gyopo — unless you need a hip joint replaced, of course.
61 Comments
And even if you get private insurance in the US, the deductibles and other charges often end up costing more than getting similar treatments in Asia. There was a whole article on medical tourism on last week’s issue of the Economist.
So it seems it might be cheaper to NOT get insurance in the US, but save that money instead so you can get much cheaper and sometimes better care in Asia (Singapore, Thailand, and even S. Korea).
On a related note, I am watching the DNC with some interest, and providing affordable healthcare is mentioned in every other speech. BUT, I do not see how this is possible in the short and mid term. The US is bankrupt, health (un)care special interests are heavily entrenched… Though it seems a lot of domestic companies are also supporting some sort of subsidized health care. The tax burden is already very high for the middle class, the national debt service is barely manageble, and the US won’t be getting out of Iraq until 2011 (if at all). So, if you know any gringos without super deluxe health insurance, tell them to go East.
On topic, the OP must realize that Koreans (regardless of their nationality..except if they are Chinese nationals) do tend to get preferential treatments in their motherland. This is nothing new, and won’t change for sometime (if at all). Koreans value its blood identity over citizenship. Also the US is providing discounted security services to S. Korea, and S. Korea would rather see their compariots in the US healthy and voting pro-Korea politicians. (BTW, a Korean couple from Colorado did the closing prayer at DNC).
If you are a whining expat, check with your parents if you have any documented European ancestry (usually to third generation) because it’s rather easy to get European citizenship (i.e. Ireland, Germany). Unlike Korea, they allow dual citizenship.
Of course, if you are Jewish, you can always claim Israeli citizenship (with their socialized medicare and world class military service).
This raises an interesting question for me- as expats here are required to enroll in the national insurance scheme, is this something only overseas Koreans are taking advantage of? What if I decide to come back to Korea after a long time back home, sign up for insurance, and have a hip replaced. Any reason I couldn’t?
Now is the chance for those who like to taunt so-called ‘Korea-haters’ to get involved.
Please feel free to get stuck into yor own countrymen and women…
NES, wjk, anyone ???
Well, Korea has to offer something to the suckers diaspora to wil their allegiance to minjok nationalism. What else is there? KOREAN PRIDE™???
Many overseas Koreans also believe in oriental medicine and may come
Here to recive that kind of treatment too. It may be worth their while
to just pay for the benefiets from America whenever they get their check.
It would still be cheaper then America.
Socialized Medicine is a scam.
Kick the next guy in the nuts who tells you differently.
#3 Good question.
While we are at it, can I get my pension back if I decide to go back to Korea when 55 or 60 and retire there.
baekdu, in general, nope. after a certian number of years of inactivity (not paying into the pension fund–10?), they absorb it into the system and delete your account.
come back here when you’re 55 if you want, but there will be nothing here waiting for you.
The pension fund is so badly managed that even for those contributing there may be nothing left.
Could be a few bored ajjuma’s at least!
That’s totally correct. If you’re a foreigner whose country has a social-security agreement with the Republic of Korea, and can obtain a lump-sum payout upon your “final” departure from the Republic of Korea, it may be a good idea to stage such a “final” departure to claim that lump-sum benefit distribution. Then get another visa and come back.
i read about this crap a while a go.
US gyopos are the culprit.
this is different from legit medical tourism.
this is a case of a US Korean gyopo taking advantage of the medical system of the Republic of Korea, getting treatment, leaving the burden of the cost upon his fellow Korean-Koreans who pay taxes to support this service, and unethically returning to the US and shouting DaeHanMinGuk from time(with the tv, of course), to time, while driving his Honda/Toyota and touting his/her or his/her progeny’s North American degree.
this is dishonesty and selfishness in the upmost supreme degree.
while they gain from this, some waegookin is being denied treatment in a Seoul. They should realize that.
We all know of the story of the waegookin who died in a Seoul hospital after a burn injury. Is his family still paying for Seoul Hospital debts? Did they receive necessary services right away?
Chuck some rocks at the gyopos Toyota, key his Honda. He’s piece of shit, regardless of his motivations and reasonings.
Perhaps you should take a break from the Internet for a week or two, and come back when you feel better.
buy me a tv.
perhaps you should go back to Canada, where politics are right, health care is right, money is right, people are right.
perhaps YOU should go to a country you actually like.
perhaps everyone can just bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch
and nothing gets done since we’re on the stupid internet just bitching
@#3 This raises an interesting question for me- as expats here are required to enroll in the national insurance scheme, is this something only overseas Koreans are taking advantage of?
As a long time expat and military retiree, I suffered chest pains and went to the base — but they said “sorry” — go die somewhere else. Went downtown to a hospital and — bam — I was in an ambulance and on the way to Pyeongtaek. Bam…rotor rooter on the arteries the same day and a three-day stay in the hospital. Total cost one million won for me… I can’t complain and have no gripes with the surgery and care.
Thanks for the comment Brendon.
Are we the only 2 people in the whole of Korea who realize what a disaster the State Pension System is?
This is outrageous and unfair.
@12 and @19;
just curious if you know of any way for Brit’s to pull their pensions before they turn 69, or whatever age they must be to collect their pension…..
I don’t think it really sounds fair either….but god bless em for taking care of their own (extended family).
I still don’t understand how any of this gets done on such a low tax and health care rate. Well done, Korea (in a way)
I think it’s fantastic because it pisses off Koreans. About time.
And stop with this ridiculous Koreanized English. Gyopos, ajumas and adjushis are all countable.
#19: Not hardly. Aren’t ALL pension systems mismanaged disasters?
#20,
Oh, please. You know all too well that it’s a drop in the bucket when compared to the number of American citizens/residents who lie about being Canadian residents in order to get free health care.
The US goverment really needs to provide universal health care to its citizens and residents, or at least pass laws to heavily regulate the cost of health care. That’s the real issue, not the fact that Korean residents of the US are abusing the South Korean system.
The reality is, people will choose the least costly method possible no matter what. Considering the ridiculous spike in the costs involving medical treatment in U.S., this is not at all surprising. People in the northern states opt to choose to take unfair advantage of Canada - exactly the same situation sans the airplane ticket.
Essentially, these are symptoms to the cancer of a problem that is the current incarnation of American healthcare. Reform is needed, and for the love of God, socialized medicine is not the answer.
@Tripod
Haha, reminds me of that Chappelle’s Show skit where Dave Chappelle presents the ultimate solution to the healthcare crisis in America - fake Canadian IDs for every American.
@MrMao
Dude, it’s okay. Everyone got it a long time ago - you’re bitter as hell, you hate Koreans, death to Korea, woohoo, hooray.
Hey… it’s healthcare and when it comes to healthcare I know all of you beg, steal, borrow… especially if you are old and frail.
How many Canadians who have been in Korea forever will still bolt to “Oh Canada” if they had something expensive ailing their body, huh?
Taiwan has similar problems with their national health care system, nothing new here.
Yes it’s unfair and taking advantage of the system, but I won’t blame people returning to Asia to seek medical treatment.
The US has advanced medical care facilities, but the “caring” aspect at most hospitals are horrid.
A friend of mine had a child earlier this year (in US), and the hospital tried to boot her out less than a day after delivery. She has excellent health insurance (she’s a pharmacist) and the hospital is in a wealthy suburb too.
Another friend had cancer and went into UCLA medical center. Throughout the night they were cleaning and waxing the floors, and restocking the supply cabinet. She couldn’t get any rest because of the the loud noise, and yes, they booted her out a day after draining fluids from her lung and taking biopsy sample from her cancer.
I’ve never been in a hospital in S. Korea, but I can assure you the ones in Taiwan won’t try to boot you out a day after surgery, or run the floor waxing machine at 1am outside your room with open door.
If President Obama lifts the ban on the Cuban embargo, we’d see Florida retirees heading to Havana for treatment.
In fact, I believe that’s the only way to reform US healthcare. Introduce foreign competition. Outsource surgery to China and India.
And that seems to be the trend now. Hospitals are already outsourcing record storage and x-ray analysis to other countries… High-tier hospitals like Mayo are already considered to be ‘global’ rather than ‘American’, and the disastrous shortage of nurses are forcing hospitals to look outside of domestic work force.
When the medical tourism goes off at its maximum potential (since we’re currently seeing its infant stage), American hospitals would be forced to reform without reverting to socialized medicine.
I wonder whether people who spout platitudes like “socialized medicine is not the answer” are just willful liars or really that good at shutting out the hard evidence from all around the world?
Because socialized medicine *does* work, and there are numerous models from single payor systems to the Japanese system of cost controls. Anyone who points to Korea as evidence that something can’t work anywhere doesn’t know Korea.
…or … all those Canadians in the states with green cards because they know getting U.S. citizenship will mean they can kiss their free healthcare goodbye…
By the way, my experience with medicine in the US has been extremely positive. I recently had back surgery that was a stunning success. The difference is that I have a job that provides HMO coverage. The key problem in the US lies in the fact that coverage, while generally excellent is not universal. And the stubborn independent streak of the typical American personality doesn’t seem to allow many to admit the possibility that universal healthcare without loss of quality can be achieved.
It’s not that Americans lack the ingenuity to make it happen. They’re just too jaded and cynical having been browbeaten into submission by the conservative agenda.
Hmm… So the British citizens who are screaming for the severed heads of the people in charge of NHS and DoH would be? America’s system is obviously f*cked up, but the socialized medicine policies have unacceptable problems of their own.
It’s not really the whole either/or situation where we have the status quo or socialized medicine. The horror stories of having to wait until you need root canal to get the free healthcare (when you initially only had a minor cavity) or near impossibility of receiving specialized care is already well known and are being used as catalysts for reforms in countries that have socialized medicine.
There are pluses and minuses to socialized medicine, just like the status quo in America. In my eyes, they’re at the same level in terms of problems - therefore, socialized medicine is not the answer to the current American healthcare crisis.
It’s like someone during the Great Depression going “You know what? Fuck this shit. I’m moving to Soviet Union.”
I’ve heard lots of Americans tell me how bad “socialized medicine” is in England, Canada, France, Japan, but I’ve never heard an English, Canadian, French, or Japanese person tell me.
Mizar5, I want to believe what you’re saying, but can you point us toward some hard evidence other than your own assertion, which really doesn’t carry much weight around here anyway?
healthcare is a limited good.
just like a pair of shoes is a limited good.
there are only so many doctors, nurses, drugs, beds, and operating rooms.
a lot of waste of limited resources goes for people who basically hurt themselves, and rotate thru the emergency room, (without paying, due to a US law mandate concerning emergency room care), then get admitted to the hospital floor, then get discharged, then come back to the ER, etc.
the price tag and the limitation of services is the result of these abusers of the system, passing the cost to YOU, the middle class, you who actually care about your credit scores, and you who actually pay your hospital bills.
who are these people?
IV drug users, people who get AIDS from basically whoring around man or woman or both, people who drink and drive or do drugs and drive because it’s Friday or Saturday night, people who ride motorcycles, people who eat 10 big macs a day and won’t touch an 1800 calorie day diet in the hospital, wondering why their organs are failing. A friend will bring them a Big Mac, Large Fries, and a Coke. And street drugs and cigarettes, too.
dirty secret in healthcare. The Big 3 major US cities have at least one public community hospital paid by tax payers, who readily accept these people, despite the fact that they don’t pay, but medically treat them, scope them, operate on them, etc, and they get a bill they don’t pay of course, but return to the ER, when they have this shortness of breathe and chest pain that literally seemingly came out of the blue. Unlike Korea, foreigners are not discriminated. (the major issue I have with gyopos, is that they become ROK citizens again for their hospital stay and bolt out. Enough money for the Toyota, no money for surgery. This is an insult to non Koreans in Korea who are shown the exit in the ER, right away)
the other half of this dirty secret is that the middle class is nowhere to be seen in these hospitals. They go to better hospitals. But, they pay for it thru taxes. A service they are charged for, but never used.
the poor are getting healthcare as long as they live in a big US city.
I think the major ones who are fucked over are the low income or middle class white people who live in small towns in white country somewhere. But, it’s part of their fault for being so afraid of non-whites. Recent East European immigrants don’t do this and rotate thru the US loop hole.
Koreans. Koreans in every possible imaginable Koreatown in the US live WITH Latinos. This is the truth.
Nice job at demonization, wjk. You’re one of those miracle people who will never ever get sick or have an accident, right? And that allows you to look down on everyone in the ER. A regular Dwight Schrute, I guess. Everyone else, it’s bad luck and bad genes, huh?
The emergency rooms are also filled with people whose minor problems were too expensive for them to cover at their difficult but low-paying jobs (and who benefits from that?). One problem is that instead of finding a way to insure them and help them with these minor problems, we force them to wait until they become expensive conditions which we all pay for anyway.
A Korean woman who has children that are citizens of another country can still enroll those children under her name and receive medical coverage for the kids.
but a waegookin in Korea is fucked if he does not have health insurance.
I am not passing judgment.
I am just trying to explain what I see.
rather spend limited resources on a sick child than someone who did it to himself.
#39
“Submission by the conservative agenda” is not a statement of fact but an opinion. So you don’t really need proof for that, methinks. And I kind of agree with the opinion, too.
Anyhow, I’ve heard that in Japan, drunkards are calling the ambulance to hitch a ride back home. It’s free to call an ambulance there. That’s totally screwed up, IMHO. Definitely not the way to go. But still, I think Americans deserve a more forgiving health care system.
Regarding rides…
I still like the Captin Morgan’s commerical the best… going into a pizza parlor… ordering a pizza… and hitching a ride with the pizza delivery man as he drives to your address…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related
Hey… it’s cheaper than a taxi in NYC!
How did they get to the pizza parlor in the first place?
Random bullets from a Canadian:
Mrs Linkd’s mom has metastatic cancer of unknown origin. She spent last winter taking untargeted cocktails of chemo in Ontario, after months of long, frustrating and fruitless diagnostic tests. The tumors shrank. She landed in Korea in June, was in Seoul-dae-byung-won the next morning for a PET scan, got the results and a full consult plus English report within a week for $2500. No detectable tumors. The Canadian treatment, in this case, was effective. The Korean service was far better, and not a bank-breaker. Happy customer.
Canadian doctors are the highest-paid professionals in Canada.
bumfromkorea has either been accepted to medical school or is trying so hard to get there that it is his life’s main focus. His opinion is naturally subject to bias. There is an expectation of income that may be severely impaired under a socialized system.
America spends more per capita on health care than any other country. How would America pay for universal coverage, someone asked. Well, the money is there already, the answer is some form of redistribution. The redistribution would be away from bum’s future earnings.
The problem of insufficient health care workers is global. The WHO, Gates Foundation and all the African anti-AIDS organizations are all rethinking their operating models in AFrica. Every time they train a clinic worker, some hospital from the West comes along and snatches them up. Same for the Philippinos.
Mrs Linkd’s hometown in Ontario this year gave grants of $150,000 to 3 graduating medical students to move there and set up practice. Last year, no family doctor in the town was accepting new patients.
That said, in Canada, everyone knows they ARE covered. If you’re sick enough, you will get ‘free’ care. It’s just that resources are so strained you have to get in line behind whoever needs it more than you. No one in Canada goes bankrupt because of medical bills.
There may be less well-off Americans who come to Canada to save money on health care. There are also more well-off Canadians who go to America to get treated faster.
Americans who say socialized medicine ‘doesn’t work’ are simply irrational. The US is the ONLY rich country on the planet that doesn’t provide universal coverage. Go out and study some models and come up with whatever is right for you. Examples abound. The redistribution involved is, yes, ‘un-American’, but that’s a problem y’all will probably get over, say, about 5 minutes after y’all realize that you can actually go to a doctor without worrying about the cost.
Good luck with this.
I have no doubt that this is true, but on a larger scale than just Florida retirees. Health care would be one of Cuba’s few comparative advantages in bilateral trade with the US. Cuba already ’sells’ its doctors to Venezuela, Guatemala and other latin american countries in return for oil and food.
Ha! Spoken like a lawyer.
Indirectly saying, it’s because of money, money, money, that any sane person would oppose social medicine.
why weren’t you more direct? You want to be his friend or something?
You ever thought about tort reform in malpractice cases in America?
You want to reduce unecessary costs, you first tell the lawyers, that there will be a CAP on medical tort winnings. Before any socialized medicine.
America has a shortage of doctors, but a surplus of lawyers.
US medical tort law is a big reason why US medical care is expensive, as well as EMTALA. Closing hospitals left and right.
President George W. Bush understood this very, very well.
Senator Jonathan Edwards did not. Afterall, he made a killing as a lawyer by suing OB-gyns, showcasing dramatic speeches to the juries, saying this doctor did this to your baby, etc.
i’ve heard many call him a fuck tart ambulance chaser.
and heard many that tort reform will never happen.
the guys voting in Congress, and Senate, they are mostly lawyers.
“Mizar5, I want to believe what you’re saying, but can you point us toward some hard evidence other than your own assertion, which really doesn’t carry much weight around here anyway?”
Speak to me with respect and you might get an answer.
The evidence is abundant, the models of success numerous and diverse. And yet all you hear are the meaningless drivel of soundbites about the Canadian and English models that pass for intelligent arguments. America can do better - as the French, the Germans and the Scandanavians do.
But you must be willing to do the research, open your mind to new possibilities. Americans - other than Republicans, that is - never cop out with “impossible because…well just because.
And don’t look to some space alien like Mizar5 for the answers. Look to your own resources, your own intelligence and ingenuity. If you seek to realize the greatest benefits of human capability, practice the greatest instincts of the American tradition.
Add to that the Japanese model, which is a great one. Now, stop bitching and get to work.
“Americans who say socialized medicine ‘doesn’t work’ are simply irrational. The US is the ONLY rich country on the planet that doesn’t provide universal coverage. Go out and study some models and come up with whatever is right for you. Examples abound.”
Precisely. Think back for a moment to the 1980s, when there were no HMOs at the time, no preventative coverage. Innovative solutions don’t arise from the sea, but from human imagination. When people place a cap on progress, this is nothing more than a psychological barrier.
Now I can understand making an honest effort and failing, but not sitting around doing nothing while foisting the improbable and unacceptable concept that we should accept some arbitrary limit to human potentiality. This is the stupidity and cowardice of a browbeaten people held down by the greed of the stingy privileged few.
The revolution we need is one of personal growth. Reform your thinking, sharpen your minds. Then try something out. If it doesn’t work, then you can tell me what went wrong and get up and try again. But why in the world would you ever give up on yourself?
“Speak to me with respect and you might get an answer.”
Lighten up. My emoticon was a winky face.
Putting up a facade of having been offended to avoid backing up an argument with anything substantial? You really are Korean!
lol
Actually I did give you something substantial. I told you not to rely on me.
I heard similar stories from this side of Gyopo society as well. Yes, they just want to get the benefits from both sides. But many paitents also want to get medical treatment in Korea for the better communication.
in conclusion, ER may need to stop treating foreigners in the US, or the govt has to pay the ER back for the govt’s objective of treating everyone and anyone in the ER.
or else, it’s just passing on the cost to the middle class.
you complain now about high cost, you’ll eat your hat when Obama makes it official and passes the cost via increased taxes. What makes you think you will share the cost now with your taxes, when you scream and yell for costs passed on to you with increased prices?
and, tort law reform must come first and foremost before any socialized medicine in America.
it’s truly dishonest to discuss socialized medicine without a cap on medical tort cases.
In Europe, there is an item by item cap on medical tort cases.
Also, there are too many lawyers. They need a Korea-like or Japan-like system to reduce quantity and produce quality lawyers.
even the lawyers know that there are too many lawyers.
and sit down, Canadian lawyer.
you seriously don’t even know what you’re talking about.
Korea does not produce quality lawyers by any stretch of the imagination.
Mizar, maybe you should stop with the knee-jerk, illogical demonization of “RethugliKKKans.” Look at the system put into place in Massachusetts under one of us child-starving, elderly-abusing fiends.
And quit being so damned neo-Confucianist with User!
Is there anyone out there who won’t take advantage of opportunities/services that are offered at reduced rates? The blame falls on the offering institutions, not the recipients.
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[...] Marmot’s Note: Never noticed these things, but then again, I’ve never been a clean freak. Moreover, having experienced getting my dried-blood encrusted head shaved with a single razor blade in a hospital in Morogoro, Tanzania (nice town, BTW, and at least the nurses were cute… despite being Catholic nuns), my bar for proper medical care is probably considerably lower than that of many people. And heck, at least Korean medical care is relatively cheap — just ask your gyopo friends! [...]