I kinda saw this coming. At a mandatory meeting Aug. 20 at the Safeway Classic, the tour informed all its South Korean members that beginning in 2009, all players who have been on tour for two years must pass an oral evaluation of their English skills. Failure would result in a suspended membership.
Per FoxSports, via GolfWeek:
Hilary Lunke, president of the Player Executive Committee, said much of this initiative stems from the importance of being able to entertain pro-am partners. Players already are fined if the LPGA receives complaints from their pro-am partners. Now the tour is taking it one step further.
“The bottom line is, we don’t have a job if we don’t entertain,” Lunke said. “In my mind, that’s as big a part of the job as shooting under par.”
Betsy Clark, LPGA vice president of professional development, said the players will be evaluated by a core team on communication skills such as conversation, survival (i.e. “I’m going to the store.”) and “golfspeak.” Players must be able to conduct interviews and give acceptance speeches without the help of a translator.
Depending on your point of view, it’s either about time or a little racist. Well, for better or for worse, it should stem this.
145 Comments
Why!?
I can not think of any other sport that would place this much emphasis upon speaking English. Maybe they should let English teachers play only, so that way their English skills would be at a professional level, or they could just play naked since that would gain an increased viewership. The only problem might be where to put the corporate logos for advertising though… I’m sorry but I’m really wondering if there is *any* culture nowadays in America worth mentioning or is it all just about the money.
Little racist? Come on… Wang, you are way too Yangban and gentleman!!
Hey LPGA!! Why not ask all ladies to limit their weight to 120 Lbs, wear makeup and dress nothing but bikini… That sure will increase the “entertainment” value!! Grow up in LA, I watched my hero Fernando strike every batter left and right and on top of the game but the dude can’t speak any word of English, so did MLB lost the entertainment value… WTF is wrong with LPGA?
I want my Margaret Cho to make skid about this!!
Total garbage. You don’t even have to know how to speak English to drive an automobile. You don’t have to know how to speak English to become a US citizen. You don’t have to know how to speak English to become the president.
And starting in 2011, female archers must speak at least passable Korean, or have their bows confiscated.
On the plus side, I’m sure LPGA ladies pay more than hagwons for English lessons.
By the way, what about the PGA? Any such rules for them?
Count me among those who think this is wrong, and probably unlawful to boot. I wonder if language can be construed to be a “disability” for purposes of the Americans with Disabilities Act or other nondiscrimination law?
English Premier League Football requires passable English to be spoken by its import players for pretty much the same reasons — giving interviews, hocking sponsors products etc etc.
Why not start mandating that players on the LPGA tour are passable as females first.
Then we can worry about the talking.
I agree it is over the top, but I do see a certain side of it. Professional golfers, while on the course, are only allowed to receive advice about shot and club selection from their caddies. I have heard that there has been some problems with Korean golfers (speaking Korean, obviously) possibly getting advice from their parents or others who were not their caddy. If this is true, this rule could put an end to this.
Before the lot of you go spewing ignorance about racism, driver’s licenses, and supposed LPGA stupidity, do yourself a favor and try some edumucation regarding the financial engine that drives the LPGA and allows those 45 Korean players to collect their paychecks in the first place.
Here’s a hint: It’s not donations from clueless blog commentators.
The LPGA does not have the luxury of a massive television contract like the PGA. Even the LPGA majors have Nielsens about equivalent to roller derby and World’s Strongest Man competitions. Nor do they draw enough fans to be able to rely on gate receipts. In fact, at most LPGA events, the admission is dirt cheap or completely free just to get enough people out to fill the stands on the 18th hole and avoid embarrassment on what little TV coverage they do receive.
Guess what that leaves? Sponsors.
Guess what sponsors want for their money, given that they know the advertisement value is squat? They want access. Access to players in Pro-Am tournaments for their own bigwigs, but more importantly access for their customers and guests. It’s the only perk of any value to be able to set your customer up in a foursome with Lorena Ochoa, Natalie Gulbis, or whichever hot Korean is kicking ass that month.
And guess what happens when the Korean players are regularly devaluing that perk by failing to interact with sponsors or speaking no English, and playing Pro-Ams as if they were a dead fish lying in bed taking a sweaty grunt from some lit ajoshi? The sponsors complain that the only return they’re getting on investment is a few giggles and “I’m fine thank you, and you?”
The LPGA is an American tour backed by primarily American sponsors. Speaking English and doing your part OUTSIDE of the tournaments is a necessary evil for all players, key word being NECESSARY. It’s a fact of life for a female sport, and no one in the LPGA accounting office gives a flying fuck whether you think its racist or not, because you’re not paying the fucking bills then, are you?
The sponsors ARE paying those bills, and if they want players to have a rudimentary command of English and make some small talk with their customers and execs so that the Pro-Ams are actually enjoyable, memorable events rather than awkward fucking nightmares, well then the LPGA needs to make sure that happens, innit?
Because if the sponsors start jumping ship and the LPGA goes under, all those Korean golfers are gonna be back on the Korean Ladies Tour making $500 per weekend instead of the hundreds of thousands they’re making now.
The LPGA is a business, and the intent is to make a profit, not dance around the delicate sensibilities of ignorant twats crying racism at every turn. There is no right to play on the LPGA tour for every Kim and Lee that gets off the boat with a solid swing. There’s more involved than playing golf, which many of you can’t seem to comprehend.
So either learn about the economics of the tour, or shut your pieholes. Or better yet, go ahead and start sending your sponsorship checks directly to the LPGA with a note telling them that you demand foreign players not be forced to learn English or interact with sponsors in Pro-Ams. Surely the millions rolling in from the peanut gallery here will make up the financial gap, and the Korean players can go on sucking loads of money out of the LPGA while giving very little back in return to ensure its continued stability. Then you can all sleep better at night knowing you’ve prevented a holocaust of racism, otherwise known as good fucking business to those with any goddamn sense.
#6 - Yeah, maybe it’s just me. But, for some reason I don’t have so much of a problem with the English Premier League insisting on that requirement, despite being unsure of what long that requirement has been in place, as the EPL imports the best talent worldwide speaking scores of native tongues and doesn’t seem to have that regulation in place targeting one specific ethnic group.
Whereas, I feel more uneasy about this decision by the LPGA which I see, rightly or wrongly, as a reactionary measure largely aimed at one minority group who speak a mother tongue other than English. It seems very reactionary, mean-spirited and racist IMO.
Bad move by the LPGA.
I’m with Mr. Carr. This strikes me as something that SHOULD be illegal, but I have that sinking feeling that it isn’t. Possibly because the victims in question are not American citizens, or possibly because linguistic discrimination has not come into vogue yet.
That said, I’m intrigued by the suggestions of R.Elgin and Siddhartha about how the game could be made more entertaining. I believe I would support those particular changes to the rules.
Well said Blue Balls, well said.
who cares about passable English?
“Passable looks” should be enforced.
Why not let the Koreans speak Korean and just not pay them anything if they win. It seems fair.
#9 Thanks for the information. I was about to join the scrum before you brought that to light.
Do EPL players really need to be able to speak English? I’ve never heard that one before. How many of the imports in K-league soccer, baseball, and basketball can speak Korean?
Personally I really dislike the idea of star players ‘having’ to do interviews.
The citizenship of the victims doesn’t really make a whole lot of difference… they would likely still be protected. There have been some cases concerning linguistic discrimination brought successfully under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, but that generally requires some sort of employment relationship. I sort of doubt that the LPGA actually ‘employs’ the golfers on its tour. And even if there was an employment relationship there, employers can discriminate on certain restricted bases if they can demonstrate a business necessity… I dunno how far the ’schmoozing with donors’ angle would really fly, but it might be plausible enough to convince someone…
Anyhow, I suppose it would be sort of entertaining to try and find some law that the LPGA might possibly be breaking, but it’s golf… if they didn’t discriminate against someone, they wouldn’t be following the traditions of the sport.
Korea is not a race.
but a lifestyle
Aha! I knew I remembered something about this — see PGA Tour, Inc. v. Martin, 532 U.S. 661 (2001). Golf tours are places of public accommodation for purposes of ADA. The next question is whether only speaking Korean is a disability for purposes of ADA. I suspect not, but that’s not my specialty, and besides — everything is considered a disability these days.
Might be a “public accommodation” discrimination where employment is not required. Doesn’t have to be “race”, either…the discrimination could be based on “national origin”. See the Boy Scouts of America case.
Shoot. You beat me on that!
Actually IHBB is correct. There is much more to the LPGA than just playing golf. Some of the high profile players such as Annika Sorenstam have been quite vocal in their criticism of non-English speakers not doing their part in all of the required functions that go on behind the scenes.
Because of this, you can’t compare the LPGA to other sporting organizations. Its whole existence depends on its players being able to satisfy the requirements of its sponsors. Not being able to speak English means those players collect a check without fulfilling the other half of their responsibilities.
The first knee jerk reaction of the uninformed is to claim racism but it’s not racist to ensure your employees have the capability to perform the job for which they are paid.
#9: Blueballs nails it: The LPGA is a business and this is a necessary step to ensure they don’t go tits up (no pun intended). Thanks for the detailed explanation of the economics.
If for some reason the local leagues decided foreign players had to know Korean, well, guess what, let them make that call. The foreign players with sac would head elsewhere for their paypacket. The rest could cry “discrimination” or “racism” and behave like children.
Nobody has a God-given right to be accepted by any sports tournament or league. They do, however, have a right to be told to meet the minimum requirements in order to gain entry.
Another blow to the ROK.
Oh, and I hope the top LPGA pro Michelle Wie can pass it.
Guess what? Many businesses are public accommodations. If the PGA has been deemed to be a public accommodation for purposes of non-discrimination law (and it has been by the Supreme Court), it will be a tough sell to try to claim the LPGA is not.
PGA v. Martin is a tear-jerker of a sports story, by the way.
#9,
English is not the official language in the US nor are the players employees of the LPGA.
#19,
Yes. To quote Penn and Teller, “The ADA is bullshit!”.
Well, if they think the only thing keeping the Korean players from being sociable, gracious, etc is their poor English skills, they need to see how Korean VIPs behave here in Korea.
Like Charlie Brown’s parents, counsellor. Blueballs has left you flat-footed, muttering gibberish. Don’t feel bad, you know what he’s like, and it’s worth taking one for the team now and then, just to have him back for a spell.
Blue balls is right. My father is retired and plays golf all the time, has the golf channel on 24/7 (except when Olbermann is on) he and his golfing buddies HATE what the LPGA has become because of all the Koreans, not because of their golf skills but because of the lack of personality of them which in part is due to their lack of English proficiency. I bet the ratings for their tournaments are minuscule, heck the LPGA Championship (a major) isn’t even on a US network
Right now money-wise the LPGA is struggling, sponsors are dropping like flies due to the hard econ times. You need personalities to drive these events (case in point look what has happen to PGA tour ratings since Tiger got hurt) and not speaking English at Pro-Ams etc has to be detrimental to sponsors and prospective TV networks. It’s not about a disability like Casey Martin, Martin through no fault of his own was denied the ability to earn a living. The Korean golfers aren’t being denied due to some act of god they can learn English. Another way to make the point, should I be allowed to play on the PGA Tour just because I can play golf? NO!!!!! I need to get better and earn my way to the tour no difference here.
Au contraire. While I happen to agree that the influx of non-English speaking Korean players may be burdensome to the LPGA marketing-wise, an argument that it’s justified to discriminate against them because of displeasing the sponsors is a non-starter. The sponsors used to be against Negroes and ladies too.
Hire a translator.
Oh, and I tend to agree with Penn & Teller on the ADA and non-discrimination law generally. But it is the law.
F*ck Obama and the other dude; iheartblueballs for president.
This much is sure: the Koreans have no leg to stand on (sorry to Casey Martin) if they want to cry discrimination.
1) KBL: limit on # of foreign players and on minutes they can play, just for starters.
2) Lone Star: discrimination of the most naked variety.
3) Korean baseball — same? Help me out here.
Why? Because this is Korea and it’s for the Koreans and no one here bats an EYE at such blatant discrimination. So I don’t wanna hear a peep from LPGA Koreans on this.
Even if they learn English, there is still no guarantee that the Korean ladies will have a personality.
When is the last time you met an interesting adjuma with an opinion about anything.
I’m still with Mr. Carr on this one. I agree 100 percent that the people who financially support the LPGA have a business interest in seeing the advancement of charismatic sports heroines who connect well with the American public. No argument there.
However, does this give them the right to interfere with the rules of the sport so they can achieve that end? This seems like what them educated folk refer to as a “slippery slope.” (no pun intended)
What if a string of ugly, overweight lesbians start to dominate the sport? Certainly these corporations could stand to lose money, especially if the Christian right boycotted the tour. But can they strong-arm the LPGA into a no-lesbians-allowed policy?
Athletes in America who don’t speak English (or who are unfriendly) are hurting themselves by losing out on endorsement money. That should be enough to motivate any sane golfer. However, mandates from the sports organizations themselves strike me as quite unethical, and quite unfair.
Not too sure which side I’m on, but to be frank, I can’t really remember the last time I was motivated by anything Tiger Woods had to say, in fact I probably switched channels whenever he sat down to chat. It’s not like any of them really do have any interesting personalities… come on, they play golf! Now, if Dennis Rodman became pro, that’s a whole new story. If I’m not gonna listen to what the top player in the world is saying, why would I care what the female golfers have to say?
Big big difference between Casey Martin and this case (BTW you conservatives, your idol Clarence Thomas was the only person to vote against Martin in this case) in that Mr Martin had a physical disability AND there was precedent on a tour the PGA sponsors to allow carts (the Senior Tour), plus the USGA allowed him to use a cart at the US Open when he qualified for that.
Should I have the right for say a Mexican Company who only uses Spanish to force them to employ me when I don’t speak Spanish but can do all the other aspects of the job especially when it entails speaking to clients in Spanish? This case would be laughed out of court. Same issue here. Speaking in English to pro-am partners, corporate clients etc is an essential element of being a member of the LPGA and is a requirement for it to survive as a business. The PGA tour has various rules regarding dress, etiquette for its members. If a player skips the pro-am for example he cant play in the tournament, there are all sorts of fines etc for these violations and a player can lose his privileges for not following them. No difference here.
The LPGA is making the right move in order to protect and enhance its product to American sponsors. IF they ever went to a no lesbian policy to appease the Christian right, that’s a big difference as that’s something that a person can control like Casey Martin’s medical condition.
#34,
I think there’s a limit on there’s also a limit their height. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think the average height of the foreign players on a team can’t be more than a predetermined limit.
#37,
Dennis Rodman on the PGA tour… Damn, I might actually stop saying, “Hell no!” every time I see golf on TV.
Wrong. The case was a 7-2 decision, with Thomas and — wait for it — Scalia dissenting.
Another nail in the LpGa’S coffin? Hooray!
Re: “Oh, and I hope the top LPGA pro Michelle Wie can pass it.”
Her Korean might be a bit rough, but English, no problem. She’s a native speaker.
#27: I’m not arguing U.S. law, I’m arguing that fundamentally a business has a right to discriminate on that basis. In my business, I only hire people who can speak English well. All others can earn their paycheck elsewhere.
I think limiting the league to a few foreigners per team (KBO) is more “racist” (although I don’t find it racist) than the new LPGA policy.
Maybe the implementation of the new policy and the sudden emergency of Asian women are related somehow but I fail to see how the LPGA is not entitled to make its own rules.
It is after all a business and I’m sure if there is a new Asian woman’s version of Tiger Woods, they’ll bend the rules to allow her to continue on the tour even if she’s a real dumbshit who couldn’t even say ‘hello’ after 2 years of English lessons.
#45,
Insert ball into hole in the fewest number of hits… Yup, golf is a brilliant game whose complexity can only be appreciated by the most intellectual among us.
Sorry Brendon you’re right, but Thomas is Scalia’s lap dog anyhow, heck even Rhenquist knew that was the right thing to do but arguing about that or the US Supreme Court isn’t the point here.
BTW in the Korea Times Pak Se-ri said she thinks it’s an excellent idea. From what I’ve read most of the top Korean pros are taking English lessons and have tutors. I really think this is a non-issue, the top Korean pros know that not being able to speak English does hurt them in the wallet in the long run.
First, how does the policies of other organizations justify the LPGA’s? Shouldn’t the actions of LPGA be judged and observed in itself rather than ‘Oh, it’s okay — [blank] does something a lot worse’.
Second, it seems that you want the golfers pay the price for something that happened well outside their power and influence. I don’t know how many LPGA Korean golfers are powerful enough to mandate issues to organizations like Korean Basketball League or the Judicial branch, but I’m just going to assume like a sane person and guess none.
Finally, The Koreans have no leg to stand on? Really? Are you really saying the Koreans should collectively pay the price for something that vast majority of them had no hands in? That’s very er… 18th century of you.
I’m with Mr. Lawyer. And I’m not so sure how effective ‘profit’ is as an argument that justifies a potentially discriminating policy.
Assuming the definition of public accommodation is the same between the ADA and the Civil Rights Act, then it’d probably be better just to use Title II, which has the same restrictions on national origin discrimination, because arguing that speaking Korean is a disability would probably be a non-starter — it is the most scientific language, after all.
Well, lesbians you can discriminate against under federal law. I’m pretty sure Congress has shot down several proposals to make sexual orientation a protected classification.
Well, all the foreign ladies want to do is to play golf… I don’t think it can be plausibly argued that the LPGA has no precedent for allowing people to play golf. (It’s not real golf, sure… but still…)
What about deaf people?
I’m highly skeptical about the alleged EPL rule… I support Arsenal and a good number of key players require interpreters for even the simplest of interviews. Remember Seol Ki-Hyun and Lee Young-Pyo are EPL players. Do they speak passable English?
In order to understand what is going on here we need to recall a quote by Jan Stephenson back in 2003:
In 2003, professional Jan Stephenson, who for many years was the face of the LPGA Tour, spoke out about Asian golfers on the LPGA Tour in an interview with Golf Magazine, where she said, “… the Asians are killing our tour. Absolutely killing it. Their lack of emotion, their refusal to speak English when they can speak English. They rarely speak.
“Our tour is predominantly international and the majority of them are Asian. They’ve taken it over.”
Stephenson went on to say in the same interview: “If I were commissioner, I would have a quota on international players and that would include a quota on Asian players.
“As it is, they’re taking American money. American sponsors are picking up the bill. There should be a qualifying school for Americans and a qualifying school for international players.”
Because of her comments, Stephenson received some criticism and later apologized, but was never officially reprimanded by LPGA officials.
http://nwablogs.com/nwagolfers/?p=54
Basically, the South Korean players are simply too conspicuous for their own good and are suffering from a bad case of DLO (dominating the LPGA while Oriental).
I hardly think they’re dominating the LPGA while Oriental. They’re just inscrutable.
rrac:
“Would I have the right for say a Mexican Company who only uses Spanish to force them to employ me when I dont speak Spanish but can do all the other aspects of the job especially when it entails speaking to clients in Spanish? This case would be laughed out of court. Same issue here.”
No same, no. If you had hired non-Spanish speakers for a long time and then decided you didn’t like them and then passed this rule, it might be the same.
Here is a serious question about ratings and revenue. Does the increased audience in Korea and other parts of East Asia (like Japan) bring in more money for the LPGA? Does this money offset the financial drag the non-English speakers with their Borg golf game?
Language requirements are a touchy issue. I believe providing free Korean lessons to foreigners in Korea and cutting off their work visas after a year or two if they couldn’t pass a basic Korean test is a good idea. But if the government suddenly came up with that idea because of “too many” coming from a certain country then I would be against it.
Seriously, though, you can view LPGA tournament winners from each year here:
http://www.lpga.com/tournament.....amp;pid=38
While there have been some Korean winners, as they hardly “dominate” that can’t be the explanation. iheartblueballs’ explanation would appear to make more sense.
I’m not defending the decision. However, it would not appear to be racial. Consider Michelle Wie, who was given more than the usual exceptions for a competitor of her age.
There might be certain parallels here to US university entrance qualifications. Do you recall the Asian backlash when universities began seeking more well-rounded students by factoring in breadth of extra-curricular experience rather than students with the highest test scores?
Perhaps it is indicative of a new standard of sportsmanship that foreign participants (of any race or nationality) should be cognizant of? Given that this is an American sporting event, isn’t it natural that the public might expect the foreign competitors to give something back?
Consider how foreign celebrities like actors Jackie Chan and Gérard Depardieu and the Iron Chef ingratiated themselves with the American public.
Koreans definitely do not lack for personality, but may lack public presence and poise in international settings. This can be overcome with the right management. What I am suggesting is that Koreans aspiring to international renown be coached and, ironically, to make Koreans and things Korean more accessible to the general public, need to become less Korean, and more internationally minded.
The day is coming when Koreans will no longer be able to fall back on the tired old “racial prejudice” excuse. The Japanese don’t use it because they know better. Koreans have some serious catching up to do, and hiding behind the old misunderstood minority myth is only hurting Koreans.
^^ I just clicked on the above link… Koreans are by far the dominant ethnicity
Koreans are 45 of the 121 non-American LPGA members.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L.....l_presence
I think they need good English skills to participate in the SBS Open, the Corona Championship and the HSBC Women’s Champion.
I’m sure that when the LPGA is receiving from Koreans, ie the Samsung World Championship, English-speaking is not a requirement.
^ receiving money
Required reading
Carr, you’re embarrassing yourself. The ADA defines disability as a “physical or mental impairment that substantially limits a major life activity.” The lack of an acquired skill (in this case language) is not the same as a disability, and would never pass legal muster as a mental or physical impairment. Lionel Hutz wouldn’t go near this suit.
Language ability is an acquired skill, and can easily be defined by the LPGA as a skill necessary to maintain a tour card and fulfill the professional responsibilities OUTSIDE OF GOLF that are required of all LPGA players. Skin color and gender are not acquired skills, and have nothing to do with the professional responsibilities of a golfer.
English being the official language is irrelevant. Speaking English is a requirement the LPGA has deemed necessary to fulfill the professional responsibilities of its members, and has absolutely nothing to do with designated official languages. And you are correct that players are not employed by the LPGA. Professional golfers are self-employed, but must acquire an LPGA tour card in order to compete. Players must first satisfy whatever requirements the LPGA sets out in its rules in order to get that card and compete in LPGA events. There is no inherent right to possess a tour card based on golfing ability alone. If a player wants to compete in tournaments sponsored by the LPGA, they must adhere to ALL the requirements the LPGA sets out, including those having nothing to do with pure golfing ability.
The LPGA sets those requirements for gaining, AND MAINTAINING, a tour card. There are all kinds of rules and regulations, dress codes, as well as morals clauses which prohibit all sorts of behavior that could potentially damage the entertainment product that the LPGA produces. Every sport maintains these rules for their own protection and the protection of their entertainment product. In addition, there are public-relations requirements that every player must fulfill as part of keeping their tour card. Korean players simply aren’t holding up their end of the PR requirements, it’s that simple. That’s where this new rule is coming from.
Why is it so difficult to understand that professional golf is first and foremost entertainment for profit. The nutjobs in this thread seem to believe the LGPA to be a national charity or state-owned competition for the public good. It is not. It’s a private business enterprise, and as such it has the right to set out minimum guidelines of professional responsibility which must be met in order to participate in their entertainment product. And not all of those responsibilities involve hitting golf balls… Get that through your thick fucking skulls. Being a tour member means more than golfing.
I’ve been to the Safeway Classic at Columbia Edgewater each of the last 4 years, and I’ve been inside the hospitality tents set up by sponsors. Every LPGA player is required to spend a minimum amount of time schmoozing with sponsors, doing interviews, and doing other PR with local organizations.
Inevitably, every year is exactly the same… Straight out of a junior high dance. The Korean players are all huddled together in one corner, speaking Korean to each other, completely avoiding interacting with sponsors. Every 15 minutes an LPGA official will come over to the group and ask them to mingle with the VIPs and local volunteers. They all giggle, wander around for 5 minutes, and then end up back in the same spot talking to each other while the rest of the English-speaking players actually do what they are required to do.
The widely known but rarely spoken truth is that virtually all the women players do not enjoy this aspect of the tour. They would much rather be relaxing on their own, spending time with their families, or doing anything besides listening to Joe Bob, Vice President of Sponsor X, talk about how much his swing has improved. But they do it because they know it’s important, and because the sponsors are writing the checks for prize money every week, and without the schmoozing, the tour would not exist. Put simply, the Koreans use their lack of English as an excuse to shirk their responsibility in participating in this necessary evil. And understandably, this pisses the other players off to no end, because when the Koreans refuse to participate, the other players have to pick up their slack.
Basically, bluejives is just dumb enough not to comprehend the business side of the LPGA, or to realize that a tour full of good golfers with no marketability does not make for a profitable business. Fits right into his victimization mindset though, so he’ll spit out ignorance just the same.
If you want to argue that this is a bad move public-relations wise for the LPGA, fine. This guy did. But enough of the “if this isn’t illegal, it should be” bullshit. The LPGA has every right to impose whatever requirements it deems necessary, within the law, to ensure that the product it puts out in the marketplace will be profitable and sustainable. A large contingent of competitors that do no speakee the Englishee, and who are severely deficient in carrying out their professional responsibility to the LPGA and its financial backers, are simply bad for business. And when you gain a reputation as being bad for business, you will either correct your behavior and start contributing to profitability rather than dragging on it, or you will get shown the motherfucking door.
My sense is that the LPGA is using this as a shot across the bow of the Korean players to get them off their asses to learn some English. They’re being warned that if they want to continue making millions of dollars off the LPGA and its sponsors, that they’re going to have to start giving something back in contributing to the tour and the money behind it.
It’s called capitalism ladies, look into it sometime.
It’s hard enough to watch a sport where top players have no personality. When they don’t even speak the language of the dwindling audience it makes it even harder to sell, hence the decision.
I srongly suggest that the Asians boycott LPGA. Plenty of money in Asia. After all the US is nose deep in debt to Asia and is in an economic mess.
I am also very familiar with the white backlash against Affirmative Action when Universities began seeking students who have endured hardships in inner cities and had experiences other than SAT scores. Jennifer Gratz and Barabara Gutter come to mind. But, they are whites who want their privilege. When it comes to Asians they would say that highest test scores should not matter. When it comes to other minorities, they insist that only highest test scores should matter. In other words, only white skin should matter. That is why Obama will not be elected President of the United States.
What is this “personality” that everyone speaks of? What type of “personality” is suitable for the LPGA? If they want to limit Korean players because there are too many unpronounceable Kims, Parks and Lees, and there aren’t enough tall blonde blue-eyed gals in the tournament that will grace the TV channels, then do so and limit their numbers — instead of dancing around some politically correct double speak.
Does anyone think that speaking passable English will make these lady players attractive to the target market? I don’t think that’s really where the problem lies.
why not just do what other leagues in professional sports do? place a percentage level on the amount of players that can be from outside the country. korean theaters in korea have to run a certain percentage of korean films and end up running some crap films. i guess it would be the same with the LGPA haha, but so long as they have big round eyes, yellow hair, and speak good engrishee that’s all that matters.
So basically, according to blueballs, the Korean golfers have to spend more time sucking up to Joe Blow, VP of Sponsor X and learn to be proficient in English in less than 6 months, in addition to the ordinary day-to-day demands of just playing professional golf.
The reason why the LPGA is doing bad business stateside is because of their own poor management, failure to understand trends, the negative bias of the US sports viewership towards the numerical over- representation of Asian female golfers in the tournaments as well as a bias against female sports in general here. It has little to do with the Korean golfers unable to speak English, although that does present itself as a convenient scapegoat. The only ones playing victim here are the Americans, crying foul over foreign competition (sound familiar?).
As far as this persistent notion of “Koreans leeching off the system while giving little back”, blueballs’s own article makes mention of the presence of Korean corporate sponsorship and contracts with Korean media to provide coverage to popular viewership in Korea. A whole lot is not being said about all the Calloway and Nike drivers and clubs being bought by Koreans because of the popularity of the sport.
I was entirely for this, but now I learn that the Koreans will have to pick up the slack. Entirely unacceptable.
Perhaps the sponsors ought to do more to counter the Korean ladies’ reticence. Gifts perhaps? I’ve seen real life ajummas go I’ve-lost-my-mind bonkers over free schtuff passed from the back of a Bongo. Green plastic colanders, for example. A Korean lady can never have too many of those.
The sponsors also ought to learn magic tricks to captivate the Korean gals. Quarter from behind the ear is a good one. Lord knows I’ve met plenty of ladies using magic.
Might I recommend a karaoke machine in the sponsors’ tent too?
cm: “If they want to limit Korean players because there are too many unpronounceable Kims, Parks and Lees, and there aren’t enough tall blonde blue-eyed gals in the tournament that will grace the TV channels, then do so and limit their numbers — instead of dancing around some politically correct double speak. Does anyone think that speaking passable English will make these lady players attractive to the target market? I don’t think that’s really where the problem lies.”
This has already been refuted in #55. However, to see just how utterly wrong this analysis is, here are some illuminating details about Michelle Wie, who has been provided a record number of sponsor exceptions based on public appeal to the detriment of much more deserving players.
As a result of these rare exceptions, Michelle became the youngest player to make a cut in an LPGA tournament at age 13, the youngest player to play in a PGA Tour event at age 14, the first female to qualify for a USGA championship (U.S. Amateur Public Links Championship Pittsburgh sectional) that is generally played by males at age 15, and the youngest female to make a cut in any professional male tour event (2006 SK Telecom Open) at age 16.
What makes this so rare is that a tournament sponsor has a maximum of only four unrestricted exemptions. These are often used to invite players who can increase ticket sales and tournament visibility. The first four exemptions offered by a sponsor must be offered to PGA Tour players or other competitive players.
Critics and professionals have rightly remarked that, considering her poor performance, allowing her to compete in PGA events takes away opportunities from more deserving golfers. This criticism extends to her participation at women’s events on the LPGA Tour as well.
One action that drew particular criticism from golf fans and commentators is that, Wie declined to enter LPGA Tour qualifying school after turning 18, meaning that she expected to rely instead on sponsor exemptions to play in future LPGA tournaments.
Speaking of public appeal, Michelle not only won all these coveted sponsor exceptions for her personality and presence despite skimpy talent, she was named as a result by Time Magazine as “one of 100 people who shape our world.”
Does this bespeak anti-Asian racial prejudice, or does it illustrate that race is no detriment to marketable athletes?
blueballs — You need to get over the idea that just because someone muses that there may be a law against something, said person supports the idea there should be a law against something.
It’s possible to be aware that there is a law against something, and at the same time to think said law ought to be abolished. For example, there are laws against same-sex marriage in some states; I think those laws are wrong. Still, it would be a bad idea to take decisions without taking notice of the existence of said wrongful laws.
I don’t think anyone asserts that the LPGA is a national charity or state-owned competition for the public good. Someone has noted that another well-known professional golfers’ association has been deemed a “public accommodation” by the Supreme Court of the United States, and that public accommodations are constrained in their ability to discriminate against people.
I’m not in favor of suing the LPGA over this issue. I think the LPGA is definitely being ungracious (un-American, really) to the Korean players, and that the tour may be in danger of unlawfully discriminating against the Korean players by the act of announcing a language-proficiency requirement.
Seems as if you also missed the point above where I myself questioned whether monolinguality amounts to “disability” under the Americans with Disabilities Act. By the way, that’s not the only anti-discrimination law in the U.S. — there are state statutes as well as the Civil Rights Act of 1964.
Whether or not the basis for the potential unlawfulness of the act of imposing a superfluous language requirement is the Americans with Disabilities Act or other anti-discrimination law, you additionally overlook the exceptionally broad application of the anti-discrimination laws in the United States, and the eagerness of judges to construe new applications for such laws.
The LPGA has made a dumb move. In the ESPN article you linked, it’s highlighted how although the LPGA has accepted Korean sponsorships (i.e., the source of its money is not all American) and its Korean players are all stars in Seoul, the tour has “not been able to” secure translation staff for the Korean language, although it does have Spanish and Japanese translators. Really? 45 out of 121 non-American players are Korean and the LPGA won’t hire Korean translation staff?
I know it’s early in Korea, but I’m surprised there ain’t any kids staying up late at night posting comments on the Korean news sites about this.
I think it’s not exactly “fair”, but in the long run, it’s probably for the best. A Korean golfer lacking people shmoozing prowess means she earns less money. This sort of “harsh action” will probably fuel even more interest in South Korea and more sponsors will pop out in Korea to support domestic athletes. In the long run, with South Korean drive, you can bet golf will likely be an Olympic sport.
You need “villains” and “rivals” for sports to have the sort of “drama” to attract attention. By imposing a “language” requirement, LPGA is sort of establishing a segregated league — which is sort of like South Korea protecting their film industry. When LPGA produces enough talent to rival Korean ladies, they probably will repeal this rule again.
“Language ability is an acquired skill, and can easily be defined by the LPGA as a skill necessary to maintain a tour card and fulfill the professional responsibilities OUTSIDE OF GOLF that are required of all LPGA players.”
How do we legally reconcile the ability to speak, or speak “properly”, or speak clearly etc., with the ability to speak a foreign language? What if an American/Chinese woman can speak English fluently but her accent/lisp/impediment prevents her from communicating?
Mizar5, I’ve no problems limiting Korean players from the LPGA. This is a business, and if the sports needs certain type of people who have the same cultural background to be able to go on dates smoozing with the American sponsors, then that’s perfectly understandable.
After all, if Korean Basketball League all of a sudden got rid of the import player rule, the entire league will be made up of US players in no time, and there will be no Korean players. I can just see what that will do to the viewership. This is the same thing, and I believe most Koreans understand that.
So why not say so?
Instead of this “English” nonsense?
I’ll ask again, does anybody think that the Koreans who can speak passable English, that will make one iota of difference to the viewership?
This just makes it look like a poor excuse to discriminate to a lot of people in the US. Koreans aren’t the ones complaining here. Some of the Korean players actually support this move.
I like this suggestion by dinkus Maximus:
“why not just do what other leagues in professional sports do? place a percentage level on the amount of players that can be from outside the country.”
The rule for foreigners should be that if their grandfathers weren’t in the LPGA, then they shouldn’t be in the LPGA.
#74 - My grandfather was in the LPGA way back when…
“So why not say so? Instead of this “English” nonsense?”
Because it isn’t so. There is no evidence of any “anti Korean discrimination,” period.
For that matter, what is the problem is with the English speaking requirement, anyway? Just speak English.
Come on, after all those years and won spent on English education, is it really so hard to speak a few English sentences?
It’s a simple, logical requirement.
I hate to say this, but only a Korean would actually read some sort of anti-Korean conspiracy into this.
@ blueballs,
Stop being so goddamn condescending. It’s all about money, I get it. You’re not the only genius who figured that out. But I cannot accept this economic argument, for two reasons.
1. Having internationally diverse players creates more marketing opportunities, not less. Just ask the people booking ads with the Houston Rockets.
2. As Mr. Carr states, it IS positively unfair and un-American to exclude players of exceptional skill because they are different.
Pro sports have always had an uneasy truce with the corporations who support them. Products are promoted quite shamelessly within sports arenas, and this is all well and good. But when sports organizations start CHANGING THEIR RULES to kowtow to business interests, we no longer have a sports competition. We have a pageant.
It’s easy to sit there and repeat the mantra: money talks. But as someone who enjoys sporting events for the competition, not the endorsements, this decision by the LPGA is unfair, unsportsmanlike, and un-American.
Well Ichiro as far as I can tell still uses a translator in baseball. Ditto for some of the other players in the MLB and lets not forget Yao Ming et al in the NBA. Speaking of which, the NBA is actively seeking foreign players to expand the popularity of the game and hence their pockets.
As someone said earlier this is clearly a reaction to the large numbers of high quality female Korean players in the LPGA. From this point it looks pretty discriminatory to me. Personally I was wondering when something like this would happen. One or two girls would be a novelty. But so many girls I guess are viewed as a threat. Very sad.
From a business point of view, it is a huge marketing mistake.
Instead if they really want these girls to learn english they should do what the NBA does and
get somebody to help them. Sure maybe the ladies should be charged some sort of fee for that.
It’s wrong to describe this policy as being racist, in view of the fact that native speakers of other languages - regardless of race or ethnicity - must also follow suit. The allegation ought to be that it is discriminatory.
And so what if it is? Societies, and the businesses that operate within them, often discriminate for reasons of purported social or economic benefit. Arguably, companies discriminate through pricing, against those who lack money. Laws which determine the legal age for voting, smoking and driving also arguably discriminate. Yet we support these types of discrimination - their benefit (if not to those discriminated against) is directly related to practice.
In this case, the benefit is less direct, yet I feel certain that the LPGA sees it, and sponsors will welcome it. Further, the policy does not close the door on anyone - develop the language component, and you can play for pay. If you’re a woman, that is.
By the way, cm’s statement: “I’ve no problems limiting Korean players from the LPGA” is a precious example of “circulus in demonstrando, which occurs when someone assumes as a premise the conclusion which he attempts to propose which an entirely circular argument.
Sorry for being self indulgent. I just really enjoy this kind of thing.
Thing is, do the Koreans at home want to see their stars schmoozing with the big-noses? I don’t think so. The Us vs Them angle is the only reason they pay attention to golf at all.
“Does anyone think that speaking passable English will make these lady players attractive to the target market? I don’t think that’s really where the problem lies.”
Yeah, they really need to have a good long talk with Venus and Serena Williams. Hopefully the sisters’ sense of style will rub off on them.
Oh, don’t worry. We know it really well.
Somebody hasn’t been keeping up with the ‘English as the official language’ debate.
Frankly, practicality does not win against social justice when practicality is not proven - LPGA wasn’t exactly the darling of the American sports scene, and bunch of Korean ladies learning to speak English is going to do jack shit. If vast majority of Americans are bored to tears playing golf, what chances are there that they’re going to enjoy watching golf?
At best, it’s a pointless and stupid scapegoating that holds personality over achievements. At worst, it’s discriminating bullshit policy.
I didn’t say I condoned the policy. But it isn’t scapegoating.
As for the Korean ladies, I fail to see how the rule would discriminate against them.
A harmless oral English exam should not represent any kind of barrier.
In fact, anyone who actually read the article would understand that the policy is neither discriminatory nor anti-Korean.
“Hopefully what we’re talking about is something that will not happen,” said Libba Galloway, the tour’s deputy commissioner, of possible suspensions. “If it does, we wouldn’t just say, ‘Come back next year.’ What we would do is work with them on where they fell short, provide them the resources they need, the tutoring … and when we feel like they need to be evaluated again, we would evaluate.”
mizar5, you’re an idiot.
go and hide somewhere, alright?
stupid halfer.
Many Korean employers also require a certain level of English of their employees. I wonder if that should be illegal or if it’s wrong.
Come the think of it, the English translators at my company must speak English very well. They are evaluated on their ability before they are hired. It’s important to their job function. It seems that the LPGA has decided that it’s important for the job function of their players too. Can my company be right and the LPGA wrong at the same time?
some white girls have been brooding over at least a decade about these “foreign” players. They could care less, if they were winning and the foreigners not even close.
when I had the Golf Channel access 8 years ago, announcer was openly saying, these “Asian women are not promoting the game, and English may be a problem.”
Yo, in Major League Baseball, the likes of Papi and Manny promote the game plenty fine with mere performance. All right?
It’s rare for me to stand on the side of the dwaenjang boji and defend her, but this time the white counterpart is way overplaying her given boundaries.
This is not a side effect of getting pummeled by the Williams duo in tennis, right?
English requirement may be the first in all of professional or international sports in all respected sports leagues across the world.
Of course, Mizar5 has his half-Korean half-whatever genes on, so he could care less.
All the registers in his “logic” mind is
Korea is wrong.
what a trash.
#66. The Williams sisters are not blonde haired and blue eyes yet they did spark higher ratings for women’s tennis when they broke out. Many attribute it to their charisma. LPGA needs more girls wwith charisma.
This just hit the news at Chosun.
http://m100.chosun.com/svc/gue.....rt_site=SE
Koreans are quite supportive of this move in fact and seems there’s no problems with it.
“I hate to say this, but only a Korean would actually read some sort of anti-Korean conspiracy into this”
Oh really? I didn’t know most of the members here at Marmots were Korean. Because most of the controversy is in here, nowhere else. I hate to say this, but only an expat will think this is another anti-foreigner conspiracy in Korea.
The LPGA needs a female Happy Gilmore, then everything would be OK.
You know what the Korean golfers should do? Learn English, pass the tests, then refuse to do interviews just like now.