The intrusive power exerted by Korean Government during the the 60s and 70s is an infamous thing, characterized by the mostly unchecked use of police and military power against its citizens. Now, in America, it seems a new set of Attorney General Guidelines are being worked out that would formally give the FBI and local police power to conduct open-ended investigations against anyone considered suspicious (funny walk, race, religion, etc.)
While “Supporters say the measures simply codify existing counterterrorism practices and policies that are endorsed by lawmakers and independent experts such as the 9/11 Commission.”, per the policy counsel of the American Civil Liberties Union:
Critics say preemptive law enforcement in the absence of a crime can violate the Constitution and due process. They cite the administration’s long-running warrantless-surveillance program, which was set up outside the courts, and the FBI’s acknowledgment that it abused its intelligence-gathering privileges in hundreds of cases by using inadequately documented administrative orders to obtain telephone, e-mail, financial and other personal records of U.S. citizens without warrants.Former Justice Department official Jamie S. Gorelick said the new FBI guidelines on their own do not raise alarms. But she cited the recent disclosure that undercover Maryland State Police agents spied on death penalty opponents and antiwar groups in 2005 and 2006 to emphasize that the policies would require close oversight. . . . Mr. German (policy counsel for ACLU), an FBI agent for 16 years, said easing established limits on intelligence-gathering would lead to abuses against peaceful political dissenters. In addition to the Maryland case, he pointed to reports in the past six years that undercover New York police officers infiltrated protest groups before the 2004 Republican National Convention; that California state agents eavesdropped on peace, animal rights and labor activists; and that Denver police spied on Amnesty International and others before being discovered.
“If police officers no longer see themselves as engaged in protecting their communities from criminals and instead as domestic intelligence agents working on behalf of the CIA, they will be encouraged to collect more information,” German said. “It turns police officers into spies on behalf of the federal government.”
IMHO, though terrorism is a concern in many places, this is an ominous step in the wrong direction and considering what happened during the last Republican Convention in New York, is subject to political abuses. Healthy political dissent, free speech and other activities guaranteed under America’s Constitution seems to be more often taken as criminal activity since 2001.
36 Comments
Seems like an invitation to entrapment. Once they start investigating someone there is going to be the temptation to lead them into a crime.
What’s the point of trying to connect this with Korean authoritarianism? In the absence of some kind of demonstration that’s just an empty suit. The real roots and points of comparison are in America’s own history. This sort o thing has its most obvious parallels in the Alien and Sedition Acts passed in 1798 when the Federalists were waging an undeclared war against France - the so-called Quasi-War, and in the Espionage act of 1917, under the auspices of which the infamous Palmer Raids were later conducted against leftist elemnts in the US. Those raids were directed by J. Edgar Hoover, who was then just an up and comer in the Justice Department’s then Bureau of Investigation, General Intelligence Division. Hoover of course went on to control a lot of the post WW2 anti-Communist movement, of which Senator McCarthy was the poster boy and the equally infamous COINTELPRO program designed to covertly get around the legislative and judicial constraints imposed on domestic intelligence gathering and pre-emptive “law enforcement” and deployed against the civil rights movement ad the anti-war movements.
Just finished reading Naomi Wolf’s “The End of America” and this comes as scary confirmation of what she argues.
The US government is playing in the hands of terrorists.
The current US government absolutely needs terrorists, be they real or illusory. Team Fear thrives on the votes of a terrorized populace. My appeal to reason is a few threads back on Andy’s announcement of the Republicans Abroad meeting, if anyone’s interested.
Since when is the Marmot’s Hole moonbat central? It might be a good idea for someone to drain this fever swamp.
We have long amused ourselves around here by offering (ignored) advice to Koreans on how we think they ought to improve their own political system. The precedent is well-established. The US presidential election is fair game.
#6
Ditto
The rest of the sane people in the US are still waiting for a list of all the people arrested since 2001 for “healthy political dissent, free speech and other activities guaranteed under America’s Constitution.” Care to name names?
Using the same line of rhetoric, I could say that the ACLU Thought Police don’t have much credibility since they believe religion is a crime despite the First Amendment.
#5 Linkd
9-11 was an inside job. Team Fear invented 2 skyscrapers collapsing on 3,000 people to get votes. It was all really CGI, kind of like how the lunar landing took place on a Hollywood movie set.
#6 Corpy
Hey! Who you callin’ a moonbat?! Oh, it’s time for me to take my government-subsidized medication now. Bye…
It has been my belief for sometime that the US will increasingly become fascist and totalitarian. People who have been following the news and politics (since the inception of the PATRIOT ACT) have seen this coming.
Americans should be really envious of South Koreans. Koreans, despite their fanatic and sometimes brainless demonstrations, are allowed to express their views. Americans are allowed to demonstrate if they do it within a “free speech zone,” a cage. While we demonstrate, the cops video tape us, and put our names into a list. Not only ordinary citizens harassed, but outspoken journalists have been put into this list.
Don’t you find it rather funny that a lot of people are dying recently? Through “suicides” and “accidents,” microbiologists (including a leading anthrax scientist), democrat super delegates, FBI agents, etc. have died. Any idea why?
the Bush administration is all about doing the Lord’s good works, how can anyone question this step?
The terrorists are trying to take away our freedoms, ergo, we must curtail freedoms to protect freedoms from the terrorist hordes.
silly free-thinkers
On a happier out-of-topic note, S. Korea beat Japan 6:2 on Olympic baseball semifinal. It was quite a match. Korea was strugging to get a run until the 7th inning where Korea finally scored its first run, then on the 8th, it had a home run, and scored two more…
#11 Shunyata
Oppressed American moonbats:
http://www.zombietime.com/hall_of_shame/
[Cue X-Files theme music]
“Shit happens.”
-Forest Gump
Shunyata, Kujo, and Linkd should start an international politics magazine with Scott Liam Soper as the Editor-in-Chief. I think Brendon might even donate some money for startup costs.
#7 ditto (was what i meant) Doh!
“This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence–economic, political, even spiritual—is felt in every city, every State house, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.
In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. ” Dwight D. Eisenhower
Farewell Address (January 17, 1961)
Such warnings are issued for a reason..
But I am amazed at you. Even though we are in the fourth year after the events of September 11th, Bush is still engaged in distortion, deception and hiding from you the real causes. And thus, the reasons are still there for a repeat of what occurred.
So I shall talk to you about the story behind those events and shall tell you truthfully about the moments in which the decision was taken, for you to consider.
So we are continuing this policy in bleeding America to the point of bankruptcy.
That being said, those who say that al-Qaida has won against the administration in the White House or that the administration has lost in this war have not been precise, because when one scrutinizes the results, one cannot say that al-Qaida is the sole factor in achieving those spectacular gains.
Rather, the policy of the White House that demands the opening of war fronts to keep busy their various corporations – whether they be working in the field of arms or oil or reconstruction – has helped al-Qaida to achieve these enormous results.
And so it has appeared to some analysts and diplomats that the White House and us are playing as one team towards the economic goals of the United States, even if the intentions differ.
It is true that this shows that al-Qaida has gained, but on the other hand, it shows that the Bush administration has also gained, something of which anyone who looks at the size of the contracts acquired by the shady Bush administration-linked mega-corporations, like Haliburton and its kind, will be convinced. And it all shows that the real loser is…you.
It is the American people and their economy. And for the record, we had agreed with the Commander-General Muhammad Ataa, Allah have mercy on him, that all the operations should be carried out within twenty minutes, before Bush and his administration notice.
It never occurred to us that the commander-in-chief of the American armed forces would abandon 50 000 of his citizens in the twin towers to face those great horrors alone, the time when they most needed him.
And it’s no secret to you that the thinkers and perceptive ones from among the Americans warned Bush before the war and told him, “All that you want for securing America and removing the weapons of mass destruction – assuming they exist – is available to you, and the nations of the world are with you in the inspections, and it is in the interest of America that it not be thrust into an unjustified war with an unknown outcome.”
But the darkness of the black gold blurred his vision and insight, and he gave priority to private interests over the public interests of America.
Shunyata: Please let us know your address. We have a… uh… package to send you. Thanks.
Which is why the price of oil is so low in America, from all the oil we stole from Iraq. Or was it that the Iraqis have a $40+ billion budget surplus from their oil revenues such that the dems are demanding all the money we spent on reconstruction back. What are our talking points today?
/start_rant
Wedge, don’t get me wrong. If given the opportunity, I will probably happily join the PTB. The problem of opression, exploitation, ignorance, and greed has been with us since the begining of mass agriculture and civilization. Most people tilled the land, then the craftmen produced the goods. Political and religious leaders became necessary to cooridnate things. Warriors arose to defend and steal. One has only to look inside his heart to see the repressed desire and violence. Dumb psychopaths end up in jail while the smart ones become bankers, lawyers, and politicians. If someone promises much money and power in lie of your soul and humanity, what would you do?
/end_rant
Keep my soul and humanity.
No amount of konservative kocksucking will get you into the havens of the elite. You may get a nice pat on the head, like any good pet, but that’s all you’ll ever be, a pet. Buy a gun, while they’re still legal, and learn to point it reasonably well, and teach your kids, because when the time comes and the elite get tired of the middle class and want them put down, it won’t be “lefties” that come for your guns, it’ll be the konservatives. Watch. It’s coming.
Good grief. One of the reasons I write pro-Obama anti-Bush messages on this blog is because so many of the people with the same leanings are warped. With regard to jag’s paranoia, I’ll let Twofish answer him:
http://twofish.wordpress.com/2.....the-world/
Personally, I’m more concerned with the abuse of power by those who will use these guidelines in ways they were not intended. When I read:
This is worrisome. If one were to live around DC, say in Prince Georges Country, the local police there are infamous for abuses to the point where the FBI themselves have had to conduct investigations into wrong-doing on the part of the counties’ officers because local oversight of the counties’ police force has been out of control or just plain corrupted for some time now. How about the New York City police suddenly trying to infiltrate small organizations of average people who were advocating political change, using constitutionally guaranteed free speech only, yet quite a few innocent people were wrongfully arrested during the Republican Convention in NYC or were harassed or tailed, thus wasting manpower and tax money. Do were really want to give these people more power and the incentive to abuse such when they have enough trouble handling what they have already!?
It’s the Fear, Elgin. The manpower and taxpayer money wasn’t wasted. It was invested to create the Fear.
Closely related sidenote on how bureaucracies function: note how public displays of irrationally paranoid law enforcement create the perceived need for more of the same.
@17: But, you see, Eisenhower was a moonbat.
“What’s the point of trying to connect this with Korean authoritarianism?”
It was my first question too.
for #9
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08.....ut.html?em
http://blog.cleveland.com/metr.....arded.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....01985.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08.....8wed2.html
seriously, man… it’s obvious you have access to the internet. you most likely also have access to a public library. there’s really no excuse.
The invasion Iraq was never about stealing Iraq’s out. It was all about keeping their oil off the market. This is the real agenda of the Bush administration. Have a look at the levels of the SRO and how many wells have been capped in the USA since 2001.
I love watching Bush talk out of his butt; have a look at ANWAR. They can drill in a wildlife reserve and then pay the oil companies to NOT pump oil.
Finally, the “Patriot Act” is the ultimate piece of Orwellian double speak; there is nothing “patriotic” about subverting the Constitution.
#29 umetardo
They weren’t arrested for protesting. They were arrested under the accusation of breaking other laws, like blocking public access to businesses, despite the spin the NYT wants to put on it (According to the ACLU, blocking entrances to businesses is protected under the US Constitution but blocking access to abortion clinics is not). Furthermore, the local city police, not the FBI, made the arrests and the charges were thrown out later. They weren’t charged with federal crimes under the Patriot Act. The arrested protesters were paid settlements for false arrest. Does this really seem like overwhelming fascist oppression by the federal government to you? It sounds like the US Constitution is still working despite the Bush Administration and the Patriot Act. Any examples of people still in the US gulags on federal charges of protesting under the Patriot Act?
BTW, you forgot the 200+ protesters arrested during the Democratic National Convention in 2000. Hmmm. Democratic convention. The Year 2000. Hmmm…
#29, 31 perhaps we can get another seat in the library for Umetaro.
While were are at it, we can add the folks who are being arreted at the 2008 Democratic Convention to the list.
Except that Koreans who hold views contrary to the mob are not allowed to express their views, and there is no social support mechanism to protect their freedom of speech. On certain issues, a Korean who dissents is asking for profound repercussions.
Even moreso if the dissenter is right. See this poor sap for a good example. His correct interpretation of the rules of soccer got him fired. Apparently his bosses at SBS preferred that he feed the mob of rabid idiots some feelgood conspiracy bullshit rather than give them the cold hard facts they didn’t want to hear.
A very public warning for other broadcasters as well to tread lightly around the truth if it doesn’t fit the victim narrative or provide a convenient scapegoat.
Per “NES”:
No, this sounds like the NYPD running amok. This agency is a prime example of who should not have broader powers to spy and conduct open-ended investigations because they abuse power. Hell, the NYPD can not even handle bicycle riders in Manhattan let alone a real national threat.
Here is an article on how presently Minneapolis police are conducting raids upon potential protesters at the upcoming Rupublican National Convention:
Local police essentially barge into places where there is no illegal activity simply because someone there might protest at a national political convention.
This is an example of a police state, only it is America, not Korea during the early 70’s and is a good reason why local police do not need more any more power than they already have.