Remember this?
The Beijing
Mass GamesOlympic Opening Ceremony cost up to $300. It was a nice, bombastic show of nationalism. Lefty film critic Roger Ebert could thinking of only one event in recent history that compares:The closest sight I have seen to Friday night’s spectacle, and I mean this objectively, not with disrespect, is the sight of all those Germans marching wave upon wave before Adolf Hitler in the documentary “Triumph of the Will.”
(He was so mesmerized by the ceremony that he forgot to bash Bush until the very end of the piece.)
Clearly Ebert has never heard of the Arirang Mass Games. You give a $300 million budget to the North Koreans and they would present a real freak show.
I took a bit of grief for that. Those commentators who said that there is nothing wrong with beefy displays of nationalism I can understand. I just can’t figure out what planet the folks who said there was no nationalism in the opening ceremony came from.
In any case, the guy in charge of the opening ceremony, Zhang Yimou admits that North Korea (the hub of nationalistic mass games) could have done it better (AP):
He told the popular Guangzhou weekly newspaper Southern Weekend that only communist North Korea could have done a better job getting thousands of performers to move in perfect unison.
“North Korea is No. 1 in the world when it comes to uniformity. They are uniform beyond belief! These kind of traditional synchronized movements result in a sense of beauty. We Chinese are able to achieve this as well. Though hard training and strict discipline,” he said. Pyongyang’s annual mass games feature 100,000 people moving in lockstep.
Here is why Zhang thinks western opening ceremonies (and shows in general) don’t pass muster:
Performers in the West by contrast need frequent breaks and cannot withstand criticism, Zhang said, citing his experience working on an opera performance abroad. Though he didn’t mention specific productions, Zhang directed an opera at New York’s Metropolitan Opera in 2006.
“In one week, we could only work four and a half days, we had to have coffee breaks twice a day, couldn’t go into overtime and just a little discomfort was not allowed because of human rights,” he said of the unidentified opera production.
“You could not criticize them either. They all belong to some organizations… they have all kinds of institutions, unions. We do not have that. We can work very hard, can withstand lots of bitterness. We can achieve in one week what they can achieve in one month.”
Something to consider the next time you see one of those epic Chinese movies with thousands of extras.
40 Comments
Its interesting that the disgraced SNU professor made similar comments about how Korean workers were superior because he could work them at all hours of the day without breaks, without days off and without vacation. It seems a very different take on invention and creativity.
Yet we see it was the Chinese that faked parts of the opening ceremony, and we all know the type of fraud Prof Hwang was involved with.
Better, or better at cheating. I am not sure the Korean or Chinese way is the best way to produce talent. It seems to be the best way to make robots of the population.
“Though hard training and strict discipline”
ha ha
You mean through threats of starvations and gulags (i mean political camps) for all 3 generations above you and below you.
#2 james
I believe the proper term is “reeducation camps.”
Gosh , just makes you wanna rush your application to emigrate to China to the authorities, doesn’t it?
human rights are a bitch
I can’t completely disagree with his comments. Workers in the U.S. are lazy. Customer service in the U.S. is shiz. Doctors can’t tell fat people they’re fat because they’re offended. While I don’t like the amount of exploitation I see in Asian countries, a lot of people in at least my own country think they deserve to be paid for nothing, and people don’t like to hear that they have faults.
“You could not criticize them either. They all belong to some organizations … they have all kind of institutions, unions. We do not have that. We can work very hard, can withstand lots of bitterness. We can achieve in one week what they can achieve in one month.”
Wow, organizations, institutions and unions that force management to bend to the will of the worker! Thank God China wants nothing to do with that. These institutions are socialist in the least, and, should they band together into one “workers” party, could lead to communism! It’s good to know China is so anti-communist, who knows what would happen if commies started to run the place! Give me the good old “non”-nationalist China that has opening ceremonies filled with the Children of the world carrying the Chinese flag over their heads to goose stepping soldiers any day!
Do you get the feeling that somewhere between these extremes is where you want to be. Somewhere like 1950-70 US.
#6:
“I can’t completely disagree with his comments. Workers in the U.S. are lazy. Customer service in the U.S. is shiz. Doctors can’t tell fat people they’re fat because they’re offended. While I don’t like the amount of exploitation I see in Asian countries, a lot of people in at least my own country think they deserve to be paid for nothing, and people don’t like to hear that they have faults.”
Yeah, I agree. That type of Opening Ceremony never would have happened in the US, and not just b/c the director wouldn’t abuse the employees. People are hypersensitive, have a weakened work ethic, and have little interest in the greater common good.
But, um, industrious isn’t among the first words to come to mind when I think of the Chinese.
You have to love a system that is so Nationalistic that it destroys its’ own athletes.
Both Chinese Hurdler Liu Xiang and Basketball star Yao Ming have suffered and are suffering major physical injuries due to the glory of Chinese Communism.
The Chinese do not care about their own athletes beyond what “gold” they can produce.
Let’s not even talk about the physical consequences of the under 16 gymnastic girls.
Those damn ‘human rights’ getting in the way all the time in the West.
What a pity for those fools.
In China we can forget about that, punish our performers and athletes until they are injured and then bask in the glory… and conveniently sweep under the carpet the fact that performers are injured or even disabled by the extra-work…
…such as Liu Xiang (China’s track gold medal favorite) who did not compete after injury in training… “Liu’s previous school coach, Gu Baogang, blamed government officials for putting too much pressure on his protege, saying his injuries were caused by the intensive training.
” http://www.theage.com.au/news/.....tml?page=2
… such as the Chinese ballet dancer who was injured in the rehearsals of the opening ceremony… media reports said paralysed, Chinese officials said she had a broken leg.
Damn those human rights… lets work our people to extremes!
Union-mandated coffee breaks and ultra-sensitive performers vs. continuous robotic drilling for the motherland–I’m with Inkevitch that there has to be a middle ground.
The Great Wall would never have been built on union wages.
“Here is why Zhang thinks western opening ceremonies (and shows in general) don’t pass muster:”…
All nationalistic BS. Fact is, the past opening ceremonies of the Olympics and the World Cup have been pretty impressive (didn’t Jean Paul Gaultier create the costumes for the World Cup in France?). The target audience for his comment, probably highly-impressionable 15-25 Chinese males, are too young to remember those ceremonies…if the Chinese government actually allowed these to be broadcast at home.
Fact is, bitterness is mounting among Beijing residents thanks to the limits imposed on their freedom in preparation for the games. Thousands of the poorest Beijing residents are currently unable to work or do business by the government. Many others were expropriated from their homes and forced to move in apartments that they can’t afford in order to clear land for the construction of the Olympic venues.
Liu Yan could have used a few more breaks, methinks.
Isn’t there an obvious cultural difference here? In a collectivist society, participation in a massive, choreographed display like the Mass Games and the Olympic opening ceremony is seen as a virtue and an honor. Many of these people do not share the affinity for maverick individualism that Westerners have.
To a certain extent, I’m sure the participants saw harsh working conditions as necessary sacrifices for the greater good (where we might see them as unacceptable infringements on personal rights).
My point is, please don’t automatically assume that these Chinese performers share your value system. It’s quite possible that many of them endured harsh training conditions willingly, even proudly.
#15 Granfalloon,
That was a great post!
Granfalloon gets it. That’s the kind of insight you’re supposed to be able to show the folks back home, demonstrating the worldliness gained from your time overseas.
it’s only seen as an honor and a privilege to be exploited when they’re socially engineered to think so. Infringing on the rights of others without their consent is just tyranny. It’s fundamentally a form of liberal rape. And people simply just don’t know that it’s happening to them.
Slaves built the Pyramids and the Pantheon and many were happy to be alive because they had never experienced or felt that an alternative was available to them. Maybe we should also bring back slavery as an option of human relations.
Great works might be only capable through harsh methods, but to say something as inane as “cultural differences” as support for illiberal societies is only a failing attempt at diminishing the superiority of liberal values in this world.
Just look at Korea. Show some people to assert their rights and they’ll never let it down. “Social unity” and other archaic ideas can eat shit.
It might be true that Americans in show business (What is this opera production) can be prima donnas, but I take Zhang’s complaints with a grain of salt, especially since he REFUSES to be specific.
For instance, what are these organizations and institutions that American peformers run crying to? Perhaps Board of labor or actor’s union, the kind of groups that can check a director from dictating an unduly harsh schedule? An arbitration court of some sort, where actors can challenge a decision to kick you out production because you have crooked teeth?
Zhang Yimou isn’t complaining about cumbersome regulation or a sense of entitlement among performers that hamper progress. He’s just pointing out how absolute reign over any kind of production - complete backing and financial support from your government, unquestionable authority to choose and remove players at your whim, having everyone work at the pace you choose, etc - can achieve better results faster.
The opening Ceremony was a sight to behold, but 4 years from now London will probably produce something just as good with their performers enjoying 5 tea breaks and working less than 24 hours a day. I’ll be looking forward to it.
I realize China has pretty much given up on Marxism. But you’d expect a prominent Chinese at least to be paying it lip-service, and not talking about workers’ needs and rights like some nineteenth century coal baron.
He’s not talking like a coal baron - there were no workers’ rights in the 19th century. Read Surabol’s last two paragraphs again.
@ghost.yoon:
Collectivism is not slavery, and I find it odd that you equate them.
I’m not “supporting” China’s society, as you assert. I’m simply pointing out that it’s different from the one many of us were brought up in.
Now, asserting that one system is better than another (collectivist vs. individualist) is a whole different can of worms. I lean towards individualism myself, but that’s no surprise, given that I’m American. The world is chock full of people yelling that the system most familiar to them is the best one. This is a critical thinking flaw known as “confirmation bias.”
. . . not to mention crippling a few national treasures along the way, due to rehearsing without any safety precautions, which is what happened to the classical dancer Lui Yan. She is now a cripple, all because of this rush to glory for the Olympics. I would bet Zang would not speak so proudly if her name were mentioned either.
LIU, not *Lui.
Granfalloon: To a certain extent, I’m sure the participants saw harsh working conditions as necessary sacrifices for the greater good (where we might see them as unacceptable infringements on personal rights).
My point is, please don’t automatically assume that these Chinese performers share your value system. It’s quite possible that many of them endured harsh training conditions willingly, even proudly.
You’re right - emperor worship is an ancient Chinese tradition. An amusing (unrelated) snippet - tickets for the 110m hurdles (15 seconds of action) were going for 10,000 RMB (~ $1500) before Chinese gold medal favorite - Liu Xiang - pulled out due to an injury. Now, they’re going for 2,000 RMB, but nobody wants them. Nationalism is definitely China’s state religion.
the greatest irony of communism’s victory over fascism is that the communists universally became fascist dictatorships.
@ Granfalloon
Collectivism may not be completely slavery, but it is definitely in the same matrix as slavery. Frankly, any system that bends the will of the individual against their self-interest and desires to serve some other entity’s goals, whether another individual, group, or society as a whole is pretty much illiberal, whether the individual is self-aware or not that they are being exploited.
Yes it is different from the liberal (at least formally liberal) background that many Westerners are familiar with, but it doesn’t mean that they should go on about trying to tolerate illiberalism.
I am quite aware of confirmation bias. It is also a very weak argument in debating about the collectivism-individualism matrix as ideological arguments have no option but to have some bias. It doesn’t mean that people should not continue arguing for what is right. (Also, don’t spout that relativistic “who knows what is right” bull crap; there are some inalienable absolutes out there, namely the rights of individuals to be individuals, before the rights of individuals to give up themselves consciously for a collective)
#28 ghost.yoon
Individualism taken to the extreme is anarchy. I think it really comes down to freedom and the ability to decide whether or not to be part of a group working towards a common goal (self-interested collectivism).
Bingo.
What if those people believe it’s in their self-interest to serve the collective? Haven’t they the right to feel that way?
The ‘bingo’ was for NES’s comment.
Shit! I must have been wrong if Linkd agrees with me…
Linkd, you should also be careful about agreeing with a self-proclaimed neocon, proud member of the VRWC! Tripod might not be friends with you anymore.
Regarding “individualism” versus “collectivism”, personally I consider the balance between the two and how this balance is maintained to be an example and judgment of any society.
As it is now, this balance between the me/society status in China is, at best, problematic and very much corrupted by a ruling oligarchy that is afraid of being kicked out by the people at any given moment (judging from the paranoia of their public security apparatus). Their only real talent seems to be in surviving this long without being kicked out but then they are cunning.
@ ghost.yoon,
You’re taking collectivism to an extreme, while ignoring the obvious absurdity of extreme individualism, as NES points out.
And as both NES and Linkd underscore, my only real point here is that it’s myopic of Westerners to assume that collectivist societies consist of people doing things at gunpoint. Some people may actually find value in pitching their efforts together for the sake of a larger community.
1. Yes I do realize that the extremity of the collectivism-individualism paradigm on the individualism side is anarchism. This is basic philosophy 1 and it’s quite insulting to say that I do not realize this.
2. I do understand that the main argument of Granfalloon and others is that people may find value in collective action. No arguments there.
My argumentative point is that it is really only legitimate when people are able to both subconsciously and consciously make the decision to act for the greater good and suppress their individual rights. But Confucian-based societies, especially in a place like China grants neither formal nor substantial rights to individuals. When neither the social background nor the law gives the individual viability in their choices, it’s the same as not giving them the choice.
It’s not a gun that’s threatening these individuals, but something much more sinister: it’s social and economic forces and pressures.
But of course they do have a choice. They can leave, emigrate, or otherwise choose not to participate in their collectivist societies. Many do just that.
But it seems dismissive to say that all Chinese people are being miserably oppressed because they live in a collectivist society. I think some of them rather like it. Is that only because they were “raised” to like it?
lol, so they can just leave whenever they want to, is that it? there are no barriers to exit, no preexisting social conditioning that makes exiting a major ordeal? I do not think I am being dismissive in my statement at all. I think it is being rather blind to say that collectivist societies gives individuals the social conditioning necessary to be a truly liberalized individual.
As for your question, my answer is: pretty much. Ask that question after those people were raised with knowledge of their individual rights and the empowerment to exercise those rights then put them in a collectivist society like China or Japan. If they still enjoy being just a cog in the machine, then I’ll acknowledge it.
FT:
IOC to investigate Chinese gymnast ages
BEIJING, Aug 22 - The International Olympic Committee has ordered an investigation into allegations Chinese authorities covered up the age of a double gold medal winning gymnast because she was too young to compete.
He Kexin, who won team gold in artistic gymnastics and an individual title on the asymmetric bars, was registered as being born on Jan. 1, 1992.
There have been persistent media allegations that He had competed in earlier tournaments under a later birthdate, and on Thursday an American computer expert said he had uncovered Chinese state documents that proved she was 14 and not 16.
Now we cut to it.
I find this notion that the Chinese are only happy with their lives because they don’t know how awesome Western culture is to be very offensive. Growing up in America, I was taught that America was the greatest country in the world, and everybody else would give their right arm to be American. One of the first things I learned after spending significant time abroad is that this is absolutely not the case.
If you want to go on believing that collectivist cultures are full of people too ignorant to know how shitty their lives are, go ahead. But all I’m hearing is another Westerner promoting the Western lifestyle who cannot conceive of a different, viable cultural system.
And if you don’t know anyone who is familiar with both cultures and prefers the Asian one, you need to meet more people.