I’ve finally gotten around to translating the Chosun Ilbo piece on the Lonely Planet for your reading enjoyment.
Just a couple of comments.
I know that it’s easy to bash the Lonely Planet, but frankly, I rather like their publications. Sure, after 11 years in Korea, I no longer find the Lonely Planet useful, but I used it when I first came here, and it served me well. Its East Africa guide, meanwhile, was a real lifesaver when I was in Tanzania. I like the style of writing, too, although I understand it can rub people the wrong way.
Having said that, yes, it does have its problems. A lot of places get short thrift — part of it’s necessity, I’m sure, but some of it could simply be because the writers are insufficiently familiar with certain locales. The 2007 Korea guide, for example, writes about the Jeollabuk-do city of Gunsan, “Gunsan is a major port and industrial city that has a US airbase nearby, but the only reason for visiting is to catch a ferry to Seonnyudo, Eocheongdo or further afield to China.” I’d like to think that my posts last year (Part I, Part II) proved there was plenty of reason to visit Gunsan other than the ferry. It’s one thing to be unfamiliar enough with a city to say much about it, but another to completely write it off (“the only reason for visiting…).
As for the “negative content” at which Seoul Metropolitan Government has apparently taken offense, well, for the most part, that’s just the LP’s style, and Seoul shouldn’t take it too personally. Take a look at the LP’s American English phrasebook, for instance — the entire exercise is apparently to take the micky out of the United States. The LP does go a bit overboard about Seoul, though. My Seoul issue of the LP is a bit dated (2003), but the introduction to Seoul in the 2007 Korea issue starts by describing it as “the world’s largest company town,” and then:
Art, urban panache and public amenities are on a par with what you’d expect in an iron-ore-mining community somewhere in the hinterland — in dramatically short supply — but there are pockets of world-class quality like the Leeum Samsung Museum of Art and the War Memorial Museum.
A tad harsh, there, no? Sounds like someone whose view of Seoul is limited to what he sees on the bus/subway ride from his hagwon to Itaewon.
Again, that said, some of the offensive comments — that Seoul can seem pretty chaotic, that’s its architecture leaves much to be desired (NOT that there isn’t plenty that’s cool), that Korean culture can at times seem incomprehensible with a strong dose of han — are not entirely inaccurate. I’m not sure if excessively highlighting those aspects will be of much use to the traveler, but the LP isn’t saying anything the traveler won’t figure out on his or her own (or, to put this another way, it’s not the LP giving travelers their first impression of Seoul, it’s Seoul that’s giving them their first impression of Seoul). And ultimately, the LP and Seoul City’s tourism marketing people have different jobs — Seoul’s job is to explain to tourists why they’d want to come to the city, while the LP is trying to paint a picture of a city that — at first glance — may seem (at least for now) like a gray urban jungle but which underneath is a vibrant, culturally rich, at times gritty and entirely fascinating place to visit filled with plenty of beauty… if you know where to look (whether the LP succeeds in doing that is another story) .
Anyway, read the article below on your own. Two caveats, though:
1) The quotes from the Lonely Planet are translated from Korean, so I don’t know how well that match the original English;
2) In full disclosure, while I’m not employed by Seoul Metropolitan Government, I am the editor-in-chief of a magazine co-published by the city — read into that what you will.
CORRECTING THE ‘IMPRESSION OF SEOUL‘
Chosun Ilbo, July 22, 2008
Seoul requests corrections from guidebook “Lonely Planet”
“Seoul’s Distinguishing Characteristic is the it doesn’t give a good impression.”
“Charmless cityscape”
“Korean culture is impossible to explain”
“Budaejjigae, or Johnson-tang, a unique food first made in the poverty following the Korean War, mixes ham, sausage and beans bought from black markets near US bases with noodles and vegetables.” (p. 28)
“It seems almost impossible to explain Korean culture, and it sometimes seems contradictory.” (p. 10)
This comes from the “Seoul” edition of the global travel guide “Lonely Planet.” If travelers coming to Korea for the first time read this information, it would be quite unpleasant. Seoul Metropolitan Government has decided to ask Lonely Planet Publications to correct such absurd content. The city has also put together a supplementary budget of 65 million won to analyze the mistaken content.
Much Negative Information that Ruins First Impressions
Lonely Planet has three Korea-related guidebooks: a country guide “Korea,” a city guide “Seoul,” and a Korean phrasebook. Not many foreign publishing companies do Korean travel books, and this series is considered the bible of foreign backpackers.
“Seoul has a rough side. Traffic congestion, ugly highrises, and Seoul’s characteristics that brought about economic development don’t leave that good of an impression…”
This is from page 6 of the Lonely Planet “Seoul” guide, “Introduction to Seoul.” Kim Gyeong-hee of Seoul’s Tourism Promotion Office said, “It seems they are drawing a picture of an energetic and vibrant city, but it gives the strong feeling of a chaotic and crazy city.”
On page 11, in the section introducing Korean culture, there’s a full 25-line, detailed description of han, describing it as if it were the “national sentiment.” There is criticism that one could overlook the bright and positive side of Korean culture.
The first line on page 26, introducing Seoul’s architecture, starts with, “Despite Seoul being filled with expressionless skyscrapers covered in concrete and glass, there are a few buildings worth seeing.” It’s said this could easily give the impression that Seoul doesn’t have as much to see as other places.
The first sentence on the section (p, 76) with walking tour information also has a negative nuance. Starting with, “Walking around Seoul is generally not a pleasant experience. Rushing pedestrians, countless crossways slowing you down, a jungle-like tangled, charmless cityscape of concrete, glass, power lines and neon signs…”, there is concern that it could ruin someone’s first impression of Seoul.
“It Must Highlight New Tourist Places and IT Convenience”
For two months beginning in May, Seoul City deeply analyzed Lonely Planet’s “Seoul” edition with the participation of three English-speaking foreigners living in Seoul and compiled a report. The report cited the following problems with the Lonely Planet: 1) It doesn’t faithfully cover areas like Samcheong-dong and Gangnam that have recently been in the limelight; 2) there is insufficient mention of Seoul’s world-class IT infrastructure and convenience; 3) by giving excessive introductions to shamanism, etc, it highlights Korea’s image as a undeveloped nation; 4) there are a seriously high number of negative expressions.
Seoul put together a report of mistaken or negative evaluations and information that needs to be updated and in August will ask the Lonely Planet headquarters in Australia for corrections. Baek Il-heon, the head of Seoul City’s tourism policy team, said, “The Lonely Planet is praised for producing books in which its writers hit the streets to get their information directly, but it’s problematic for it to spread mistaken or excessively negative information… Lonely Planet Publications, too, has sent a positive reply.”
Lonely Planet will release its revised edition for its Seoul guidebook next June. Seoul has decided to conduct a marketing campaign to include “Korea” and “Seoul” editions in authoritative overseas travel guide series printed in Great Britain, Australia and the United States.
Unifying Foreign Language Markings
Seoul City is now changing or unifying mistaken or confusing expressions on English-language Internet homepages introducing Korean tourism and information about Korea. Currently, Seoul produces 33 foreign-language promotional publications, and has 58 homepages for foreigners. There are many cases, however, of grammatical and spelling mistakes and confusion caused by the same information being expressed in different ways.
Seoul Tourism Promotion Office head Park Jong-su said, “We are now inspecting and correcting all English-language homepages, like those of Seoul City Hall, cultural properties and Seoul History Museum… By the second half of the year, we will change all the mistaken English spellings, grammar errors and Konglish expressions.”
{ 49 comments… read them below or add one }
Lonely Planet hasn’t been relevant in Asia for ages… the entire mentality, information, outlook, everything is just outdated and now irrelevant. Who cares?
Thanks for your translation. I know I’ve harshed on LP, but their books are sometimes the only thing available, so they are better than nothing. I could do without the sanctimony, though.
Anyone know what sort of tone Korean guidebooks take when describing foreign cities? Could be wrong, but I’d guess it isn’t all glowing promotional brochure like writing.
Travel guides like Lonely Planet exist to help travelers prepare for the actual reality of the countries they will be visiting – not to give unrealistic rosy propaganda you’d find in official tourism bureau pamphlets.
I don’t have any experience with their Korea or Seoul guides, but I did find their guides on China and Japan to be very helpful. Both books had similar negative descriptions about bland and ugly buildings or pedestrian behavior, and the descriptions weren’t so far from the truth.
Most western tourists who travel to Asian countries are particularly interested in traditional cultural practices and customs. Such things are more attractive than lifeless skyscrapers and IT infrastructure.
Anyway, much of what they are complaining about is the truth. That’s a proper description of budaechiggae, for instance. They’re a little too sensitive on the “undeveloped nation” image.
And as the Dram Man said, all that fabulous IT doesn’t do squat for the visitor, except maybe PC bangs (which are far less numerous than they used to be).
I don’t know about the tone, or if this is even typical, but it is something that amused me recently. Friends visited me and my wife when we were living in Tanjung Pinang, Indonesia. Two of those friends, a couple, Korean girl and her Canadian boyfriend, were going on to Bali after visiting us in our backwater. Since they had never been there before, they asked us about a few things including accomodation. She had brought with her a Korean guidebook to ‘Indonesia’ which included only Bali. She was surprised to see that accomodations there could be had for well under $100 a night, contrary to the book’s say-so. This washes with reports of fleecing that other Korean friends have complained about (mostly from other Koreans) when traveling abroad. I would be interested in seeing what other guides from here have to say.
The most interesting aspect of this entire episode is that ROKGOV has got its panties in a twist about it. Can anyone imagine the Elysee Palace weighing in against the LP France/Paris guides? If ROKGOV put as much energy into actually improving the tourism environment in Korea as it does blowing smoke up potential tourists’ asses promoting Korea, (and whining when someone has the temerity to point out the variance between hype and reality) it might actually make a difference. I recently returned from an extended trip to south central China, including in particular Zhangjaejie (Jangagye to Koreans) and was astonished at the number, variety and value for money at all levels of accomodation/dining/”attractions” (and by that I don’t mean the so-called men’s infrastructure that I hear Korean business man prattle on about) — not to mention the state of maintenance of the national park and its facilities – all of which were way above anything Korea has on offer.
This kind of thing drives me nuts about Korea. Let’s spend $65,000 (!) (of taxpayer money, I’m sure) to “analyze” a guide book. Are you kidding me? This is totally absurd. LP has every right to publish what it wants (much like Japan has every right to teach what it wants in its OWN borders).
Seoul is a dirty, noisy, concrete jungle! Why blame the LP? Blame yourselves, Seoulites. This is another instance of Koreans blaming others for their own problems.
In regards to the other issue that is mentioned (Gunsan not worth seeing), I wish that guidebooks would tell people when a city is just not that interesting. Sure, any city can be reasonably interesting if you seek it out and learn about it. But people who buy LP aren’t those kind of people. These are people with one or two weeks to see Korea.
@7 Spewer
Really? What national parks and attractions have you visited in Korea? Either you haven’t traveled much in Korea or you don’t know where to go.
How did you like the cardboard-soaked-in-pig-fat “pork” dumplings, lead paint red toothpicks, and radiator fluid toothpaste at those Chinese accommodations? I hope you didn’t have to take any cold medicine while you where there…
Candlelight vigils against Lonely Planet? Anyone???
@10
I’ll bring the pheasants, red headbands, and “LMB Out!” signs…
Instead of protesting international standards yet again, why not just once and for all raise Korean standards to meet world standards?
#5- They definitely are a little too sensitive about the “undeveloped nation” stigma. Reminds me of the criticisms when the James Bond film set in Korea was released. The scene where the cars landed in the rice paddies with a farmer and an ox in the foreground were viewed as making Korea look third world.
Don’t know what would have been preferable, the cars landing in rice paddies with a farmer using his laptop perhaps.
Er. Yeah, I hate it when LP says things like “There is nothing to see here except the bus station.” I can’t believe that some privileged punk got paid money to write that.
However, I was hoping to see a translation of something really insulting about Seoul but I don’t see these things as totally unwarranted.
“Seoul’s Distinguishing Characteristic is the it doesn’t give a good impression.”
-Hm. Mostly true. Thank the scumbag cab driver who kicked my 70 year old parents out of a taxi, punched me in the stomach and tried to get me arrested at the National Museum in a rainstorm last November because he didn’t want to go the long way to Itaewon. Seriously, Korea. Up yours.
“Charmless cityscape”
- Millions of identical buildings? Check.Peeling paint, tangled wires, mountains of spit on the stairs? Check. Piles of garbage rotting in the street? Check. Scowling, frantic people crawling to work in enormous traffic jams? Check. The only charm here wears mini-skirts.
“Korean culture is impossible to explain”
- No, not entirely true. But Koreans hate it when white people try to do so because , well, they just aren’t Korean. Koreans don’t want to be explained by anyone who isn’t Korean and they freak out if anyone tries.
“Budaejjigae, or Johnson-tang, a unique food first made in the poverty following the Korean War, mixes ham, sausage and beans bought from black markets near US bases with noodles and vegetables.” (p. 28)
- Isn’t that all true? Budae means troop, doesn’t it? Aren’t there still black markets in Sincheon, Namdaemun and Itaewon?
“It seems almost impossible to explain Korean culture, and it sometimes seems contradictory.” (p. 10)
- The culture is contradictory? Aren’t all cultures? Why is that such a bad thing to say? This one sounds like a bad translation from English to Korean back to Enlgish. Anyhow, hyper-sensitive Korea. I see, I see. God, I need a beer.
“-Hm. Mostly true. Thank the scumbag cab driver who kicked my 70 year old parents out of a taxi, punched me in the stomach and tried to get me arrested at the National Museum in a rainstorm last November because he didn’t want to go the long way to Itaewon. Seriously, Korea. Up yours. ”
Cue Pawi or one of his clones saying I deserved it or I’m lying or go home if you don’t like it. Sparkle!
Well, let’s see: I’ve been to:
* Jirisan National Park,
* Gyeongju National Park
* Seoraksan National Park
* Songnisan National Park
* Hallasan National Park
* Naejangsan National Park
* Odaesan National Park
* Juwangsan National Park
* Bukhansan National Park
* Chiaksan National Park
* Woraksan National Park
* Sobaeksan National Park
I’ve also been to fair number of provincial parks.
Don’t get me wrong; qua parks all the foregoing are interesting in their own rights (although none really compare w/ Zhangjiajae – but that’s neither here or there; it’s just the way it is).
But they simply don’t have the supporting infrastructure that even a much poorer country like China has at Zhangjiajae (and other Chinese parks I’ve visited).
And, no, in fact I never saw any of the horribles you mention – although I’ve heard that they are as likely in China as Korea.
Contradictory? That is exactly how I describe things to people when they ask, “What do you think about Korea?” I say “It is a place of extremes, with few examples in between.” It is not a bad thing. Here are some examples of the contradictions in Korea that I’ve seen:
1. coy Korean girls with every inch on the top half covered vs. Korean girls dressed like (through western eyes) hookers in miniskirts
2. shy school kids vs. Koreans going crazy in noraebangs
3. no toilet paper, no soap, no paper to dry hands vs. everything covered in plastic to keep the product clean and new and also “sanitized” cups in shikdangs
4. very cheap vs. very expensive (I am still amazed at the prices of things, there seems to be no rhyme or reason for prices here)
5. old temples vs. skycrapers in the city
6. Korean “temple” food is super healthy vs. fried crap on the streets and western food chains too
7. strong family values vs. father/whoever falling down drunk in midweek binge
8. strong family values vs. high abortion rates
9. strong family values vs. prostitution
I could go on and on about the contradictions I see in Korea….
How is it that all these things exist together in Korea? These things exist on a regular, even basis BECAUSE IT IS A CONTRADICTORY COUNTRY.
I am not saying Korea is two-faced, but that it is Korea is “dynamic” or “contradictory” because every culture changes slowly and unevenly in different areas.
On page 11, in the section introducing Korean culture, there’s a full 25-line, detailed description of han, describing it as if it were the “national sentiment.”
You mean it’s not?
Like Roboseyo said on another thread, if Korea cleaned up its act (literally, as in the piles of garbage everywhere), enforced the law (there isn’t a day when I don’t see taxis running red lights and drivers cutting in front of pedestrians crossing streets), and organized signage in different languages uniformly and correctly, it would not only make a good impression on visitors but surprise surprise, Koreans would benefit too.
That 65 mil. won could have gone toward such improvements, instead it sounds like more croaking from deep in the well.
So, you had a bad experience with an asshole taxi driver — that could easily
happen in most of the big cities of the world. I haven’t had a really bad experience with a Korean taxi (and i do take a fair number of them) since 1989, myself. Treating the driver politely seems to go a long way…
> But Koreans hate it when white people try to do so because, well,
> they just aren’t Korean. Koreans don’t want to be explained by
> anyone who isn’t Korean and they freak out if anyone tries.
Dunno, man — i’m certainly white and Koreans are paying me pretty good money these days to explain them, to international students / visitors and to themselves — and they respond noticeably appreciatively. Nobody is “freaking out” at me, nobody has for quite a long time — not even when i explain why they don’t really have “5000 years of History” (not even half of that), or tell the real-deal about some of their other cherished myths…
Outside of a few hot political issues, these sensitivities are exaggerated.
that was replying the Mr Mao in 14-15!
I’m envious. Always wanted to go to Jiuzhaigou, too. I didn’t realize until I got to China that its incredibly diverse landscapes rival its cultural attractions.
As for Gunsan, it is worth a trip for visitors interested in Japanese colonial architecture, but for the ordinary tourist with a short intinerary, it’s not.
What strikes me most comparing Korea with other countries visited is that no natural or cultural attraction is internationally recognized like the Statue of Liberty, Mount Fuji, Machu Picchu, the Fjords of Norway or a host of other world destinations. Doesn’t mean Korea lacks attractions worth world fame. It’s that for me, there was no sense of achievement in seeing anything in Korea. I grew up in a working poor family whose only annual vacation was a day-trip to Cedar Point Amusement Park, and even then, some years we couldn’t afford to go. After I paid off my student loans, I started using my vacation time and disposable income to see all those famous places I’d heard about as a kid. I can remember my feeling of excitement upon first glimpsing Tiananmen Square, the Great Wall, the Grand Canyon, the forest of neon signs in Kowloon, that quintessential image of bustling Asia. My first foreign vacation out of Korea was to Singapore. As I stepped off the plane into the muggy tropical heat, I heard Bob Barker bellow, “…and this trip to Singapore can be yours if the price is right!”
Precisely because the whole country of Korea is off the beaten path for Western tourists, Korea should market itself as a unique destination and target both well-off visitors and budget backpackers. Both want something different, a less touristy, more authentic experience. Homestays in hanoks with exquisitely served traditional meals would lure middle-aged couples. Many global backpackers already know that Korea offers great hiking opportunities. Koreans may lament not being on radar of most tourists, but as far as I’m concerned, Korea can stay a hidden gem.
Agree that the tone of LP guides tends to snarkiness. The China guide was banned from sale at one time although you could bring one in.
Seoul taxi drivers – I got into one the cabs, had my map ready, pointed to the park that I wanted to go to, and he only shook his head. No go. I didn’t argue, got out.
Can anyone explain that? It has NEVER happened anywhere else, and I have been to some 30 countries.
You have that precious one day off, you want to go and see something different, you don’t speak the language. OK, taxi drivers don’t want to go where you want to go. But… That is certainly how I remember Seoul.
Apart from that, Seoul’s “palaces” were all very nice, and I liked the modern art museum. Not sure how I would survive on a trip in the rest of the ROK without a guidebook like LP (and in the north they might shoot me?).
Listen, I’m glad you like it here. I’ve been here 7.5 years and, well, that’s enough. Good luck.
Sonagi, you have a great point. ROK could really go with that vibe.
“a unique destination and target both well-off visitors and budget backpackers. Both want something different, a less touristy, more authentic experience. Homestays in hanoks with exquisitely served traditional meals would lure middle-aged couples. Many global backpackers already know that Korea offers great hiking opportunities.”
Sounds like a plan.
Let it be known that the hamlet of Waengye (on the foothills of Mt. Youngpyoung) has a charmingly charmless gamjatang place and sour locals that will blow their noses in your ski glove. That, the resulting punch up, and the post-fight bottles of soju shared amongst the combatants make the place worth a visit.
And the gov’t office beside the yogwan blared the “Locamotion” at 0500.
“Both want something different, a less touristy, more authentic experience. ”
Medical tourism is one way. A batch of American medical tourists arrived recently and they got their bang for their money, getting treatments from their various ailments and plastic surgery. They didn’t have medical insurance back home because of the high costs. It was much cheaper to take a plane ride to South Korea, get treated, sleep and eat in a high class hotel, see the sights, then go back. They seemed very happy.
Another good promotional potential maybe Korea’s bath house culture.
From the article:
“The first line on page 26, introducing Seoul’s architecture, starts with, “Despite Seoul being filled with expressionless skyscrapers covered in concrete and glass, there are a few buildings worth seeing.” It’s said this could easily give the impression that Seoul doesn’t have as much to see as other places.”
But it doesn’t. It really doesn’t. I have a friend coming to visit in a few weeks’ time, and I’m really running short of things we can do. He’s going to be here a week. I have to fill 6 days or so. So far I have:
- DMZ trip
- War museum
- maybe national museum
- possibly gyeongbokgung
- dongdaemun shopping at night
I have a car so I can go a little farther afield. Is the fortress in Suwon worth seeing? Obviously I don’t know all the tourist sites worth seeing, but I never had this problem when friends came to visit me in Paris. Hell, I lived there for a year and I still didn’t even see all the things I wanted to see.
And that was to Sanshinseon!
Bigrich — I don’t have that problem. IMO, most people are not interested in those museums. And the DMZ… well, I haven’t been there since I’ve lived here for four years, but I haven’t heard any compelling reason to visit.
I’ve had people visit. I take them to Kyungbukgong, Insadong, Bongeunsa (the best temple in Seoul) and out for some soju and galbi. If there’s more time, then Inwangsan is cool and unique. For rainy days, you have COEX. Men will appreciate the “sights” and women the shopping.
I wasn’t at all impressed with Suwon’s Great Wall. Take them Namhansansung — beautiful nature, traditional architecture, etc.
Anyways, hope they enjoy their visit.
those are good.
but, bigrich — Doseon-sa!! your guests will never forget it…
If you can drive 3 hrs out of town — Beobju-sa!!
@16 spewer
It’s really funny how you find Korean parks to be so crappy and yet manage to visit 12 national parks and various provincial parks. One would think you would have figured it out after two or three parks and stopped trying. Maybe you can visit Dokdo next. I hear they have bird and seal shit…
Taken all together at a glance, Seoul is…well, it’s Seoul. It’s the individual neighbourhoods, palaces, and museums that make it interesting.
I was fascinated by the city the first time I visited, grit and all—but compared to some neighbourhoods in my hometown of Vancouver (for example), even the worst neighbourhoods in Seoul are on par with Zurich or Geneva (relatively speaking). (But like Seoul, Vancouver’s still worth the visit.) For me, it’s not the skyscrapers Downtown that initially drew me, but all the little back-alley neighbourhoods, for example around Dongdaemun and Namdaemun.
The best experience a traveller could have of South Korea, however, would be to not spend all of his or her time in the capital, but balance it with time in the Provinces—the mountains, hiking, seashore, major temples, Seokguram, etc.
And traditional culture definitely needs to be part of the country’s marketing, including shamanism. Shamanism is only a stigma to Koreans themselves (and I write this as a Christian), and from an outsider’s point of view, it’s part and parcel with traditional dance, mask plays, music, etc. …Not to mention that it’s wrapped up with Korean Buddhism, which needs to be another key element in the country’s tourism marketing.
Finally, the Seoul City government may be in a kerfuffle over this, but I wonder if folks in Daejeon, Daegu, Gwangju, or Gangneung see what all the fuss is about. I can’t imagine Seoul holds much charm to Koreans living outside of the capital, except that it’s the prime engine for upward economic and social mobility for Koreans. Then again, they’re probably upset about being written off as only being good for catching a ferry to somewhere else….
…Re travelling to the provinces, the country has such an excellent network of trains and intercity buses, that the KTO would do well to invest in English-language timetables, ticketing, marketing, what-have-you for them. I can get around by long-distance bus because I can read a Korean timetable, buy a ticket in Korean, and so on. But there’s a whole resource there—already in place—that’s basically inaccessible to short-term overseas visitors.
I guess either you’ve been lucky or I’ve been unlucky. I’ve been turned down in several Chinese cities, Bangkok, Kuala Lumpur, and Jakarta.
Yes it is, although I remember the area around the fortress as being frustratingly difficult to navigate… But then, it’s a large city in SK, so that’s pretty much a given. Plus, if you’re going to Suwon, you could always stop by the Korean Folk Village in Yongin, which is kitschy, crowded, and touristy (and not really a match for Hahoe or Yangdong), but still pretty entertaining.
22/MF: It’s the taxi driver’s discretion. I learned after my first refusal by a taxi driver to simply ask him before you get in where you want to go… especially if it’s “prime time” for them…
Out here in Bucheon, it’s a must-do since our taxis are divided between Bucheon, Incheon, Seoul, and other district taxis who must charge extra to go outside their licensed area (and thus lose profit)… It can’t be any different than other metropolises like NY.
I would recommend going to Boseong, the tea plantation, if you or they are fans of green tea. I was lucky enough to make tea around Hadong near Jiri San. BTW, I get turned down by taxis who just drive by with no one in the car and their light on. However if you get stuck when the subway ends at night, it is a fight to get a taxi to take you home the rest of the way. That is even if you are going to a good neighborhood in a central location. Asking to go to an inconvenient neighborhood just gets a hand wave to screw off.
If I want the taxi driver to take a specific route, I just tell him directions and not the location, so he doesn’t have any idea where he has to go. Otherwise, I just let choose the way they want to. You could also ask them to take a specific road, but they can get a little pissy if you do that. If the driver is nice and does a good job, I try and leave a tip (even if it is just a hundred won but usually more) to leave a better impression of foreigners that they will be more willing to stop and pick someone up. Some taxis say they can make 3 million won a month if they work hard. I think some of them just don’t care enough about making enough money to pick passengers up (especially in small towns).
#33 – While this service did at one point disappear for a few months, Korail now has pretty good train schedule/fare information on its website. They don’t seem to produce any English schedules on paper. (I don’t know if they do this any longer in Korean. I think one has to go online or use the big schedules on the walls of train stations)
Unless you can read Korean, bus info is a little hard to come by. It also doesn’t seem to be a centralized system, so one has to find the bus terminal site in Cheonan, Bucheon, Wonju, etc. to get current fares, schedules, etc. Furthermore, bus stations only take cash, and don’t sell: tickets from other points of origin or return tickets. Makes planning ahead a possible pain in the ass, especially around weekends, vacations, etc.
If you call the KTO information service, they can usually find this kind of info and give it to you in English in just a couple of minutes.
#33
…Re travelling to the provinces, the country has such an excellent network of trains and intercity buses, that the KTO would do well to invest in English-language timetables, ticketing, marketing, what-have-you for them. I can get around by long-distance bus because I can read a Korean timetable, buy a ticket in Korean, and so on. But there’s a whole resource there—already in place—that’s basically inaccessible to short-term overseas visitors.
What, pollute the countryside with waegooks!? Better to keep them penned up in Seoul trying to figure out the confusing/unhelpful/laughable direction signs there.
Seriously, this is an excellent observation. I’ve been able to read Hangul for some 14 years now so I can and have used public transportation to get everywhere here. If I’m driving on the highway, I read the Hangul portion of the sign and ignore the Konglish.
But, reading sewing’s post was a reality jolt! What if I couldn’t read, or didn’t have the time to learn Hangul?
Ah well, not to worry, Korea isn’t going to do anything about this situation….
100 won? If it jingles, don’t bother.
“Er. Yeah, I hate it when LP says things like “There is nothing to see here except the bus station.” I can’t believe that some privileged punk got paid money to write that.”
Yeah, that was my signal to use my guidebook as toilet paper.
#39,
“But, reading sewing’s post was a reality jolt! What if I couldn’t read, or didn’t have the time to learn Hangul?”
It still wouldn’t be an excuse. I mean, most of us have traveled halfway around the world to get here and people complain about not being able to read signs?
“It also doesn’t seem to be a centralized system, so one has to find the bus terminal site in Cheonan, Bucheon, Wonju, etc. to get current fares, schedules, etc.”
A new bus leaves every 10 to 20 minutes, tickets are dirt cheap. There you have it.
I think many of us may forget that many historic things worth seeing in Korea were flattened during the countries civil war.
#33: There is the monthly 5″ x 8″ 시각표, published by a private company, and available in many bookstores (at least Kyobo Bookworld, and those in or near train stations). It includes train, subway, intercity bus, ferry, and domestic plane schedules and fares (and even charts of expressway tolls), but all in Korean. Personally, I can’t travel without it. (It was still being published as of about two years ago; I assume it’s still being published.)
…There are similar books published in Japan, but there, they’re the size of telephone books! (And in that case, in Japanese only.)
“A new bus leaves every 10 to 20 minutes, tickets are dirt cheap. There you have it.”
Wrong. Witty, but wrong.
I saw LP Seoul at an airport bookshop yesterday and flipped through it. I didn’t find anything overly negative about its tone. It seems to paint Seoul as an intriguing, though somewhat different type of major city. I think this is a classic case of Koreans who can’t stand to have someone else write their narrative using a different background and value system.
This whole ROK GOV reaction is just more proof that, if left to their own devices, the South would be basically the North.
It’s petty, defensive, shows a remarkably powerful drive to control any and all comments about their country made by anyone from the outside.. I could go on. And it seems that LP’s take is pretty accurate. Every place has its negatives and I”m sure the book has plenty of positives, too.
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