Some 20 Korean vets went to Japan’s Tsushima Island on Wednesday to hold a protest in front of Tsushima City Hall criticizing Japan’s claim to the Dokdo Islets.
Their placards also read, “Tsushima (Daemado) is Korean territory, too.”
It’s not a protest without writing in blood, of course.
Dokdo: Bridging Korea’s Ideological Divide, Since 1952.
(HT to Occidentalism)
319 Comments
That’ll won over the hearts and minds of the average Japanese.
D’oh: “win over”
If it ain’t the illegals making a fool of themselves overseas, it’s the angry nationalists painting Koreans ugly in neighbor countries.
hanshim-hada, hanshim-hae.
Beautiful.
Hilarious.
Compelling.
Dynamic.
Going to an island full of natives and insisting that their island is the height of delusion. Obviously they didn’t bother asking the locals what their opinions were.
Tsushima was one of the islands that Rhee Syngman lied about to the US (along with the Liancourt Rocks) claiming that it was historically Korean territory. The US investigated the claim, and found that Tsushima and the Liancourt Rocks have never been a part of Korea.
What island will be next? Why not just go for the big fish? Claim Japan as theirs and then Dok-do will become theirs automatically.
I have come to the inescapable conclusion that everything Koreans do in the international arena is merely the internal dialogue of a radically isolated and solipsistic nation.
I wonder if they are aware that foreigners doing the same in their country face being deported? If and when I return to Australia, I will lobby the government to rescind the rights of any Korean nationals who are not permanent residents and see how they like it.
Don’t you mean 1954, the year Korea illegally occupied the Guano Rocks by the use of illegitimate force (at a time when Japan was constitutionally and practically incapacitated from responding?) That’s when Syngman Rhee’s inclusion of the Guana Rocks within his unilateral declaration of the so-called Rhee Line delimiting the scope of Korea’s alleged maritime rights (also illegal by then prevailing standards re the law of the sea) really became operational.
Syngman Rhee declared the line in ‘52. The “use of illegitimate force” came in ‘54.
Yeah, that’s what I was pointing out, though I omitted the 1952 date in connection with the Rhee Line: it didn’t become “operational” w/ re to the Rocks until ‘54
Matt wrote:
“Tsushima was one of the islands that Rhee Syngman lied about to the US (along with the Liancourt Rocks) claiming that it was historically Korean territory.”
How was it a lie, pray tell?
“The US investigated the claim, and found that Tsushima and the Liancourt Rocks have never been a part of Korea.”
They did, huh? First of all, show me the source that the US “found” out about this….and WHO among the Americans found that they were not KOrean territory and based on WHAT evidence?
But if you’re right (which I really doubt) then the Japanese lost Japanese land….to Korea. And I’m okay with that.
They look they’re in their 40’s-50’s. How do these guys make
a living?
They look like they’re in their 40’s-50’s. How do these guys make
a living?
Matt, you forgot to mention the Japanese also lobbied for Korea’s Ulleugdo. An Chosun island since the 6th Century.
Meanwhile the allies mulled over giving Chejudo to the Japanese…..
http://www.dokdo-takeshima.com/japanese-cheju.jpg
Rhee’s Peace line.
http://www.dokdo-takeshima.com/rhee-line-limit.jpg
The boundary between Japan and Korea from earlier drafts of the S.F. Treaty before the U.S. decided to incorporate U.S~Japanese joint trusteeships of former Japanese outlying islands into the treaty.
http://www.dokdo-takeshima.com/Allied.jpg
Given the geography of the region, Rhee’s “brutally enforced” Peace Line is the quite fair compared to what the Japanese are demanding. Rhee knew the Americans and the Japanese were giving him the shaft so he took matters into his own hands.
America gave Rhee the shaft? Rhee would have never acceded to power in the ROK in the first place had it not been for the active intervention of the U.S.
How come nobody ever wants to take New Jersey?
#11
Check this out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rusk_documents
If you never knew about this, you shouldn’t even discuss the issue.
If this is true, then Rusk was wrong. Plus, this was the late 40s to early 50s, so opinions about what is right or wrong change; as an example, back then blacks were separate but equal from whites in America, and the US gov’t supported that…which still didn’t make it right. Now if someone said that blacks and whites should still be separate but equal today based on something a US gov’t official said in the late 40s and early 50s, then I gotta wonder about this kind of view. Anyway, Korea’s claim was stronger than Japan’s in regards to Dokdo. Then some guy named Rusk made his conclusions. I’m glad he didn’t say Chejo-do was also Japanese territory, though he very well could have. Heck, I am glad he didn’t say SEOUL was Japanese territory. He could have, but that still wouldn’t have made him right, and Korea would have been right to defy Rusk if Rusk HAD said Chejo-do, the city of Seoul, and other Korean territory was really Japanese territory. And Korea took what was its own rocks and took Dokdo.
Anyway, I do hope you’re right, and then I can tell people that Korea TOOK Japanese territory, which sounds fine by me.
Sorry, typo: CheJU-do
The Americans considered both sides of the argument of course. It’s no wonder why Korea doesn’t want the case to go to the ICJ.
Don’t assume it’s arbitrary just because it defies your belief. Belief alone is not good enough. It’s not religion, you know.
I don’t agree with Rush’s conclusions, either, but I doubt the South Korean ambassador at the time regarded the Assistant Secretary of State for Far Eastern Affairs of the country that had liberated Korea from Japanese colonial rule was at the time rescuing his country from North Korean aggression as just “some guy named Rusk.”
The infamous Rusk papers…….yawn.
First, they were confidential memorandums. None of these papers translated into public/official U.S. policy and certainly none of this stance saw the text of the San Fran Peace Treaty. The Japanese themselves didn’t even know about these papers until they were declassified 50years later.
Rusk was an rabid anti communist whose decisions on Takeshima were based on military posturing for the cold war against China and Russia.
On the other hand the United States State Department’s Geographer S.W. Boggs recognized the potential for conflict between Korea and Japan if Takeshima were ceded to Japan. His recommendation based on the geography of the region was to grant sovereignty of Dokdo to the Koreans.
http://www.dokdo-takeshima.com/SFUS.jpg
The Japan Peace Treaty was a failure because the Americans turned it into something it was never intended to be. MacArthur decided in 1949 to incorporate joint trusteeships between the U.S. and Japan in tandem with the Peace Treaty. From then on, the whole decision process for granting ownership of former Japanese territories became tainted.
http://www.dokdo-takeshima.com/sf-mac3.jpg
We can see very early on the Americans envisioned whopping up weather and radar stations on Liancourt Rocks in a joint arrangement with the Japanese. (security considerations) I always laugh when Japan’s MOFA quotes this document and leaves out the last part. They always say “Japan’s claim is old an appears valid….” Then the leave the rest out.
http://www.dokdo-takeshima.com.....eshima.jpg
Dogbert, by “the shaft” I meant the process in which the Americans granted Liancourt Rocks to Japan.
I’m sorry, did the U.S. officially grant the Liancourt Rocks to Japan? I may be misinterpreting, but I thought one tenet of your argument was that the U.S. did not actually do so.
Robert (#21),
Why don’t you agree with Sec. of State Rush’s conclusions? Because if you didn’t….?
Korea had no historical claim, whatsoever, on either Liancourt Rocks or Tsushima.
Correction: Sec. of State Rusk
Makes me feel better, given America’s sophisticated understanding of Asian affairs. Especially in 1951.
Why should they when they have effective control? Let’s see how quickly the Japanese jump if Taiwan brings the Senkaku Island dispute/non-dispute to the ICJ.*
*I’ve read that the Japanese once offered to bring the Senkaku dispute to the ICJ. Is this just misinformation, or does someone actually have a link?
“How come nobody ever wants to take New Jersey?”
Ya can’t even pump your own fucking gas in fuckin Jersey!
These idiots will make life harder for Koreans who live or own property in Tsushima, which is getting a shot in the arm by South Korean cash.
Are there pictures of the signs that say “대마도도 한국영토”?
Who cares, really? Korean cops are already there. Besides, once the polar ice caps melt, there may not be much left of it.
Because he fails to recognize the 1905 takeover as part of a wider pattern of Japanese aggression.
Ultimately, however, it doesn’t really matter what I believe — Japan isn’t getting the islets. Ever. At this point, why even continue making claims?
Dogbert, the Americans had no right to grant anything to anyone.
The Japan Peace Treaty was signed by 48 nations and as Dulles pointed out in his memorandum America was but one of these signatories. In other words, our interpretation of Potsdam is that it doesn’t affect the definition of Japan’s territories, however other nations disagree. (such as Canada and Russia)
http://www.dokdo-takeshima.com/dulles-doc1.jpg
It’s funny how America’s posture changed.
First they agreed the Japan Peace Treaty could do little more than follow the terms of Potsdam and Cairo.
http://www.dokdo-takeshima.com/japanese-cheju.jpg
Then later when the Americans realized these agreements might hamper their ability to utilize former Japanese territories they decided to reinterpret the relevance of the wartime treaties. (ie Rusk papers)
Who ever said the “Rusk Document” was official? America doesn’t officially take sides on this. But it does cast doubt on the Korean claim that their case is concrete.
BTW, neither China nor Taiwan makes the “Senkaku/Diaoyu” a big anti-Japanese propaganda tool. There might be some inter-government exchanges, but that’s about it.
The islands were given “back” by the Americans and basically the Americans side with Japan on this. Oh yes, the government of Japan will stop any Japanese national from sailing there and making nationalist protests. I believe the Chinese discourage such protests on their side, too.
So I wouldn’t even compare.
I can’t believe it’s eight fuckin beans to cross over the GW!
Steve, you just wrote that the U.S. granted the Liancourt Rocks to Japan. I’m trying to get straight what you mean by that.
If it’s meaningless for Japan to lay claims, then why should Korea continue to assert the rocks are theirs regardless of any outstanding Japanese moves on the issue? If only Korea can show similar restraints as China and Taiwan. They can’t , and that’s where I see the problem is.
BTW, I wonder if Taiwan can bring any case to the ICJ.
“If it’s meaningless for Japan to lay claims, then why should Korea continue to assert the rocks are theirs regardless of any outstanding Japanese moves on the issue? ”
Squatch, that is the million dollar question. Why can’t Korea control its emotions when it comes to Dokdo whenever the Japanese make a move intended to provoke them? I think EVERYONE on this thread has thought about this at some point.
It still has nothing to do with who is the rightful owner of the rocks, though. If you claimed that my house really belonged to you and I got angry and decided to slaughter pheasants or go to your country to protest this….this STILL doesn’t make my house any less mine or make it any more yours.
Robert (#31),
If Liancourt Rocks were unclaimed by any nation, how can you say their “incorporation” was part of a wider pattern of aggression? There was no aggression involved in Japan’s incorporation of Liancourt Rocks.
People’s ignorance about that history is what is so frustrating. Everyone seems to have an opinion about something they know little or nothing about.
Robert @ #31,
That does not even make sense. In what manner did the incorporation by Shimane prefecture advance Japan’s “aggression” towards Korea? Japan would soon control the whole of Korea, so why bother to pay such careful attention to the Liancourt Rocks, and place then within the 内地 (Japan mainland) administrative area and not the 朝鮮総督府 (Chousen administration) since Japan controlled them both?
The Liancourt Rocks were uninhabited, and no evidence has ever shown that the Koreans even knew about the island before they started working on Japanese fishing and sealing vessels.
It is frustrating to see you take this position despite the fact that there is zero evidence on the Korean side, which I am sure you are aware of. On the otherhand, I can understand why you would be like this as you live in Korea and any unorthodox stance could be very damaging to you.
I’d call the cops if someone did that. So maybe Korea and Japan should go to the ICJ?
The U.S. and Britain did something similar back in the “Pig War”. Thus today, Canadians need passports to stay the weekend at the beautiful San Juans.
Or maybe the Koreans can show restraint, and the issue will dissipate.
My bad. Dokdo was terra nullius in 1905 (just like the Senkaku?), right?
Look, Gerry, I don’t doubt you know much more about this subject that I. You’ve dedicated a gazillion posts and one university teaching position to it.
Very cute. Very Japanophile.
Ha ha - being from the wonderful Pacific Northwest I find the Pig War interesting as well as amusing…..it was one of those events in Washington’s past that got me interested in history…..
“Or maybe the Koreans can show restraint, and the issue will dissipate.”
Smartest thing I’ve heard all day. But it’s not likely that Koreans, in this case, will do the smartest thing.
“Very cute. Very Japanophile”.
Perhaps, but in Japan I could take whatever stance I want, including the stance that Takeshima belongs to Korea, without jeopardizing my relationships with Japanese people. You couldn’t say that Dokdo is Japanese land in Korea. I thought I was pointing out something obvious that everyone here understands.
You may very well think that Takeshima belongs to Korea, and think you have good reasons for it. But even if you did think it historically belongs to Japan, I doubt you would be saying so or everything you have worked for in Korea would be at an end. Is it so bad to admit this reality?
I think the Japanese, if they want it so bad, are going to have to pry Dokdo from Korea’s dead cold hands. In otherwords, nothing less then the use of force is going to make those tiny islets Japanese.
To Bevers @38:
“There was no aggression involved in Japan’s incorporation of Liancourt Rocks.”
Oh my God….. Bevers, a country like Japan that took Formosa (Taiwan) from China in 1895 by force and was intent on joining the imperialist race with the Western countries didn’t display further aggression in 1906 when it took Liancourt?? I don’t know what you had in your cornflakes this morning, but I don’t see how you could see Japan’s aggressive moves against Formosa in 1895, Japan’s aggressive moves against the island of Sakhalin Island in 1905, Japan’s aggressive moves against the entire Korean nation in 1910 (and actually well before that), Japan’s aggressive moves against Siberia in 1918 (which were finally thwarted by the Western Powers), Japan’s aggressive moves against Manchuria, Hong Kong, the Philippines, Malaysia, Dutch East Indies, Wake Island, etc. in 1941-45 and now SOMEHOW claim that Japan, without a hint of aggression, benevolently and peacefully took Liancourt Rocks. Naturally you can see why Koreans and many people in the West look upon Japan’s recent claims on Dokdo and the other islands with a bit of wary cynicism when Japan (and you) try to claim that Liancourt was Japan’s ONE peaceful and legitimate expansion in the 20th century when in actuality it was the most aggressive and atrocious of conquerers from 1894-1945.
And as we know, Bevers, Japan has other territorial disputes with Russia and China still, so Korea isn’t alone in having to deal with Japanese bullsh*t about land Japan supposedly took legitimately.
“People’s ignorance about that history is what is so frustrating. Everyone seems to have an opinion about something they know little or nothing about.”
Exactly, Bevers, exactly.
“Look, Gerry, I don’t doubt you know much more about this subject that I. You’ve dedicated a gazillion posts and one university teaching position to it.”
OUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!
No, it wouldn’t. That’s not to say that something I write — either here or elsewhere — won’t eventually get me fired/deported, but you assume too much.
No, you were impugning my motives. But that’s OK. I understand.
Japan is never going to attack Korea. There is a remote possibility that Korea could attack Japan over the issue given the level of emotionalism in Korea. After all, Korea has increased their military patrols around the Liancourt Rocks during the current controversy, a hysterical over reaction.
Still, the Liancourt Rocks issue is growing pretty interesting. I am not sure if you realise or not but pretty much all of Korea’s assertions about the Liancourt Rocks have been debunked. I don’t actually care about the status of the Liancourt Rocks, but it will be good to have the historical record set right.
Robert,
I know next to nothing about Senkaku, except that it has nothing to do with Japan’s incorporation of Liancourt Rocks.
Robert, we will just have to agree to disagree. You know I don’t have a lot of faith in the Korean polity.
“Japan is never going to attack Korea [again].”
I think Tokugawa Ieyasu said that to Chosun in the early 17th century. Oh well, so much for promises…
Did the Tokugawa regime ever attack Korea? For that matter, in what sense did Japan attack Korea during the pre-colonial period? Battle of Seoul? Battle of Pyongyang? Nope, nothing of the sort happened.
Korea folded like a house of cards and Japan picked up the pieces. This is a pretty unique event in human history and deserves further study.
dear shakuhachi,
fuck you, ass hole.
Well, I have no idea why, but Robert has shown that he is biased against the Japanese and Chinese in this and other posts.
This used to be one of my favorite blogs, but quite clearly the owner has a hidden agenda, and not just against the Chinese and Japanese, but West Africans too it seems.
wjk, your unfounded comment is more proof as to how KKKoreans cannot and will not listen to reason or proof. Good argument on your side nonetheless.
Can’t speak about the Taiwanese, but the islands are definitely on the radar of the Chinese, and the issue surfaces anytime there are tensions between China and Japan. In fact, while strolling in downtown Qingdao, I was astonished to receive a handout on the dispute from a young Chinese man distributing them in a park just 100 feet from City Hall. It is rare to see citizens engaging in politically oriented activities in public. Chinese netizens discuss the dispute in internet forums. The Chinese media doesn’t froth at the mouth and Chinese don’t cover themselves from head to toe with bees, eat flags, hammer at pheasants, or do other crazy attention-grabbing stunts like Korean demonstrators, but the Senkaku/Diaoyu dispute isn’t just a topic of discussion in bilateral meetings.
Warning… the link below is shameless nationalistic “wanking”…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RK4bmOKHZg
My personal opinion? Highly fictional, but nice special effects since they had all those left over props from Bulmyeolui Yi Soon-shin.
Yo Matt, ever heard of the Hideyoshi invasion of Korea? Then, as WangKon said, Tokugawa, who took over Japan after Hideyoshi, promised Korea that Japan would never invade again. Well, we know how THAT promise turned out.
Korea has no history of aggression toward Japan. Japan, on the other hand, clearly has shown a pattern of aggression against Korea over the centuries. To hear you say that there is a possibility that Korea could invade Japan is like saying there is a possibility that the country now known as Israel or Poland or the Czech Republic could invade Germany; in other words, if it were to happen, the world would understand (but not approve), but it isn’t going to happen.
Correct sonagi - the general educated Chinese population is much more civilized, rational and reasonable than the frothing-at-the-mouth Korean nationalist nutjobs, which is why China is a much more pleasant place to live in, nevermind the richer culture, better food, language et al.
dear kangnam,
him and I go back many years.
he is a paranoid, and evil asshole, that’s for certain.
“The Chinese media doesn’t froth at the mouth and Chinese don’t cover themselves from head to toe with bees, eat flags, hammer at pheasants, or do other crazy attention-grabbing stunts like Korean demonstrators…”
Well Sonagi, how a few Korean crazies demonstrate doesn’t take away from the fact that they are right on the issue of Dokdo. See #37.
JK, your point is moot - you are basically deriding the KKKoreans for not being strong enough to attack their neighboring countries.
Kang, I am not deriding Korea. Korea has the strength to put a serious hurting on Japan, but an invasion of Japan by Korea WILL NOT HAPPEN. For us to speculate on the possiblity of Korea invading Japan after it’s been the other way around of Japan being the aggressor against Korea on at least two occasions is ridiculous.
What’s a KKKorean?
wjk, what do personal vendettas have to do with logic?
No wonder Robert allows your ilk on here - you are both blinded racists.
How could Korea attack Japan? Japan would annihilate Korea, as they have been doing for the last few decades with music, film, and all around debauchery…
“The Chinese media doesn’t froth at the mouth and Chinese don’t cover themselves from head to toe with bees, eat flags, hammer at pheasants, or do other crazy attention-grabbing stunts like Korean demonstrators”
Exactly. Nor does the Chinese head of state give long speeches about the Diaoyus being theirs or declare “diplomatic war” on Japan. I see no comparison.
kangnam, I am not a racist.
I tell the white man, what the white man or the white girl here didn’t even think about as racism.
In the west, white men’s past times are calling each other racists. In the past, they couldn’t care less.
Mere manipulation of facts, no logic on his part.
Simple example for your tiny head. Japan had many factories, and a sizable hydroelectric power facility in North Korea. According to that logic, North Korea, via Japan’s grace, should be one of the top places to benefit from colonialism in the 1900s.
South Korea started off with less resources, less industry, compounded by total destruction in 1950.
I refer you to night time satelite photos.
QED.
Well wait… didn’t they? After all, North Korea started out with more of everything than South Korea, following liberation. Japan may have started the wasting of NK, but the decades of woeful mismanagement by the Kim regime certainly brought the process to its modern-day state of advancement. It’s certainly not fair to blame North Korea being almost completely dark at night solely (or even mostly) on the occupation.
The saddest thing about this issue (that is, aside from some of the moronic comments it continues to generate) is that it should be a non-issue for Koreans: Dokdo is currently occupied by Korea and this situation isn’t about to change.
Sakuhachi is right. Korea’s annexation of Korea went pretty smoothly, and that was because many Koreans wanted it. In fact, many Westerners wanted it, including, I believe, President Roosevelt. Japan was seen by many Koreans as the only country that could save Korea from herself. In fact, I have read that tens of thousands of Koreans even volunteered to fight with the Japanese against the Russia in the Russo-Japanese war.
Anyway, this is getting off the subject, but Sakuhachi have made some very good points and does not deserve to be called the names he has been called.
By the way, it is not true that Koreans never attacked Japan. I believe 8,000 Korean warriors were a part of the Mongol invasion of Japan in 1274. That was before Hideyoshi’s invasion of Korea, so Koreans, along with the Mongols, drew first blood.
Correction: I meant Japan’s annexation of Korea.
okay wjk, throw around the ‘white man’ stuff as if it is a burden to be ashamed of.
make no bones about it, japan civilized korea - introduced infrastructure, medicine that was actually effective - good god man, how much does korea owe to japan? you are blinded by hatred, and as a south african that grew up during apartheid, i know blind unjustified hatred when i see it.
korea needs a truth and reconciliation commission, but you guys quite clearly don’t want that; and that is why you fail.
Gbevers, as for the Mongol invasion of Japan, Kublai Khan and the rest of the Mongols weren’t about to hear no from any of their colonies….and the consequences if they were were well-known. His father, Genghis Khan, and the Mongols brought a whole new meaning to the phrase “rape, pillage, and plunder.” Koreans or anyone conquered by the Mongols really had no choice in the matter.
And what nonsense is this that Koreans welcomed the Japanese colonization?? My own family lived under it and never ONCE did any of my family members welcome it. Where do you get your information??? And don’t say Bruce Cumings, the guy who once said that the US and South Korea started the Korean War by invading North Korea. Furthermore, WHAT source, either controversial or otherwise, said Pres. Teddy Roosevelt wanted Japan to colonize Korea???
Matt made NO good points.
Gbevers, read my #47. Japan’s taking of Liancourt Rocks was indeed part of a pattern of aggression by Japan that began in 1894 and finally ended in 1945.
This thread has fast degenerated into the levels of a typical one found on AF. Not too surprising, considering certain cast members.
A lot of things can be said about what the double-headed beast of occidentalism has claimed so far, but I’m just going to do what Koreans should do whenever Dokdo is brought up by the Japanese equivalent of Hicksville, West Virgina.
*Yawn* What else is on?
Speaking of, what does Tsushima actually look like? Any interesting sites or natural assets that can attract tourism?
I have been there five or six times - it is very beautiful - mostly small forest covered mountains/hills. The trees are huge! Last time I was there I think the wild boar and deer population out-numbered the humans. A lot of Koreans go there to fish (and I believe hunt). I remember the first time I went I was really surprised to see the Korean flag flying along side the Japanese flag at the airport. The main city has two canals - the main canal has colored glass murals of the Korean envoys to Japan during the Choson era. I know that just before the Tsushima Battle’s 100th anniversary - I went there and met with some of the organizers for the event and they were very surprised when I pointed out that some of the murals had been damaged (intentional or by accident - perhaps a drunk driver). At that time Tokdo was dominant in the news (as it always seems to be). Instead of going to Fukouka you might want to consider going to Tsushima (Daemado) - it is quiet with a lot of great hiking.
kangnam, you talk as if the Japanese invented that western infra and medicine.
I mean, the Japanese are very reluctant to credit the Koreans for passing on originally Chinese infra, culture, meds, weapons, techs,
I just laugh out loud when a white South African who is fleeing his country after the end of apartheid, claims to understand racial tolerance better than anyone.
Regarding South Africa, it seems the Blacks and Whites have been quite vicious to each other, passing on HIV intentionally and what not. You know, the news the world wants to be shielded from.
as far as I know, despite your claims of South Korea being the new Nazi state, while totally ignoring the true modern Nazi state of China, I seriously know of no ethnic conflicts within Korea that rivaled what other races around the world and neighboring Korea have done.
actually, the Kim family up north may qualify.
I implore all men bearing the Kim name to make chastity vows.
Kims in Korean history have historically overemphasized their deeds and importance. We have Kim Yoo Shin and Kim Choon Chu, who are responsible for the loss of Manchuria, for their own selfish reasons. We have Kim Yong Sam, who accomplished very little, and brought much sorrow. We have Kim Dae Jung, who is full of himself, declaring “historic” North and South communication. We have Kim Il Sung and Kim Jung Il, the prime examples and justifications for which the men of Kim lineage must make chastity vows.
one day, I ran into a site for Andong Kims.
they were so full of themselves, to be concise.
Andong Kims are one of the prime reasons why Joseon was such a shitty country.
Another reason why Goryo was such a shitty country was due to the larger Kim clan as well.
Gan-shins, looking out for themselves.
If you’re not willed enough for a chastity vow, then get a vasectomy.
“Chinese don’t cover themselves from head to toe with bees, eat flags, hammer at pheasants, or do other crazy attention-grabbing stunts like Korean demonstrators”
No, Chinese only burn, loot, and attack Japanese restaurants, stores, Japanese soccer teams and their fans, and even cars.
http://www.youtube.comwatch?v=icqjN6sQtxQ
They also boo and throw garbage at Japanese soccer teams who had the nerve to bow to the Chinese fans in a gesture of friendliness.
They are so rational that they even went on a world rioting tour when the Tibet flag shit hit the fan. Including the one in Seoul where they went on a rampage through the entire city.
“make no bones about it, japan civilized korea - introduced infrastructure, medicine that was actually effective - good god man, how much does korea owe to japan?”
Kangnamdragon, China has been the biggest receipient of Japanese aid, bar none. The aid volume from Japan to China over the past 28 years amounts to 57 billion US dollars. 57 billion!!
So where is this Chinese bowing groveling gratitude toward Japan, that you expect from Korea?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Db4vorG0ug
Correction to #77: Genghis Khan was the GRANDfather of Kublai Khan.
#53,
This isn’t the 17th century.
#76,
‘Modernized’? That’s an overly simplistic and somewhat dishonest way of putting things. What Japan did was set up an infrastructure that allowed it to better exploit Korea’s natural resources and control the general population. It was for the sole benefit of Japan.
Besides, Korea’s king had already begun steering the country away from a mainly agrarian economy and had begun investing in the local infrastructure.
“This isn’t the 17th century.”
Of course it’s not… you obviously missed my point.
The analogy would be more accurate if one acknowledged that Japan had been removing sovereignty cards from the house of Yi for years before finally knocking it down.
The entire city? I wouldn’t call the areas around Olympic Park and Doksugung “the entire city.”
The Chinese, like any nationality, are capable of mob violence, but their public protests lack the originality of Korea’s professional demonstrators.
lady, what you’re saying is pure nonsense.
why don’t you just say the Koreans are creative?
JK #60
“Yo Matt, ever heard of the Hideyoshi invasion of Korea? Then, as WangKon said, Tokugawa, who took over Japan after Hideyoshi, promised Korea that Japan would never invade again. Well, we know how THAT promise turned out.”
Tell me how it turned out. I am 99% sure that you know nothing about history of Korea.
Drawing and quartering live pigs, slaughtering pheasants, and chopping their fingers, kidnapping American Soldiers (who are protecting their country)… this is the “nonsense” that sonagi is talking about, and what you want to use as a basis to praise the creativity of Koreans?
I don’t think the majority of the Korean people appreciate being characterized by these jackasses’ actions.
WJK,
holding that true, it would be preferred if that creative assets are directed to something more… productive. Like alternative fuel, economic/education reform, and the sort.
As opposed to brutally killing [insert animals] or burning people. Or flags.
Tsushima is really beautiful, the numerous islets between the two main parts of the island group almost have a “halong bay” feel.
as it’s japan, people in Korea do not really think about it for a week end trip, but I believe it should definitely be on your list, alongside Busan, Ulleungdo, gyeongju or jejudo.
it’s not that complicated to get to from Seoul (KTX to Busan early morning, then ferry). doable on a week end, although probably a bit short, 3 days is probably ideal.
what’s also interesting is that most people who visit Japan from Korea go to Tokyo (or other big cities), but Tsushima has a real countryside feel to it, very unique.
92 was meant as a response to bigotboy in 90.
This blog is making me want to take a year off after college and just travel.
I’ll never try Ulleungdo though… I don’t think I can handle the infamous boat ride that my parents told me about.
Perhaps its time for Japan to rethink its visa free policy for Koreans.
# 97,
Makes absolutely no sense. Why restrict 10’s of thousands who come to Japan to do business… spend money… for a few dozen crazy nationalists.
Matt and Beavers,
Do you guys get some kind of stipend from the Japanese uber-Nationalist right for all the work you put in on their behalf, or do you just lack sex lives?
@99
Both.
“Korea folded like a house of cards and Japan picked up the pieces. This is a pretty unique event in human history and deserves further study.”
That one statement lost a lot of credibility with me…
Matt, yes the annexation of Korea went quite smoothly.
Here’s why.
http://www.dokdo-takeshima.com.....reaty3.jpg
I can’t believe there are still people out there who still deny Japan’s annexation of Liancourt Rocks was not an act of “aggression” The same naval personnel who put up military watchtowers on Ulluengdo, Jukpyeon Ulsan etc were the people who surveyed the islets for telegraph stations only months before the islets were annexed. This was all done during the largest war of the day, while Japan fought for exclusive control over Korea.
http://www.dokdo-takeshima.com/dokdo-x-files2.html
Territorial acquisitions must be both natural, peaceful, open and public. Japan’s annexation of Liancourt Rocks was none of the above.
@39 Shackahoochie
Very ironic that the biggest bendover for Japan Shackahoochie with his “Japan can do no wrong, they are the imperial race” blog (which regularly features negative diatribes on Korea) is making such a hypocritical claim about RK, who regularly criticizes Korea and says positive things about Japan, in addition to the opposite, on his blog. I heard from cmm that “The Hole” was even blocked by the Korean government at one time.
@50/54
Yeah, let’s set the historical record right:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N.....ties_begin
“Territorial acquisitions must be both natural, peaceful, open and public.”
Really? Should America give California back?
Shak’s overblown nationalism is amazing.
Lets go back to history. The reason why and the sole reason why Japan has any military history is because it was the first country to crumble to European imperialism.
Korea did not crumble to Japan either. The Korea-Japanese war lasted nearly 20 years before they were able to officially annex the country.
You want to talk about crumbling? Japan practically begged the Americans for mercy, some 30 years before we signed a treaty with the US. In terms of tech Japan and Korea were both equal and the US being vastly superior, but WE made an effort.
What really sickens me is that this little bump in history actually makes the Japanese some kind of military country. Prior to the industrial age, Japan fought 1 war. That was with Korea and they lost. That is almost the most pathetic war record among the OECD countries.
On the other hand we’ve fought a dozen wars with Chinese dynasties yet today, the super geeks are somehow the strong minded people.
Japan had the edge by being America’s little bitches since 1850.
@74 gbeaver
Sakuhachi is right. Korea’s annexation of Korea went pretty smoothly, and that was because many Koreans wanted it…Japan was seen by many Koreans as the only country that could save Korea from herself.
Just like in Japanese rape pr0n, where women secretly want and like it:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories.....1280.shtml
Its amazing how a topic regarding Japan pops up and all of a sudden there are a gazillion of them here. Any other topic and they become Americans in Japan.
many years ago, readers at the Hole crowned me the Japanese porn expert.
Lacking the qualifications to justify that crown, I merely stated that I had seen Japanese porn, and was turned off by what appeared to be rape-themes.
The Japanese and the Japanophiles who support them claimed vigorously that wjk is merely picking up “rare” genres in Japanese porn, and that wjk is a secret lover of Japanese porn.
again, I politely denied the charge, and in all honesty, I found that my erection sort of disappeared, knowing that the girl was being forced, and I kind of found the whole affair rather ugly.
Still, readers at the Hole, insisted that I was the Japanese porn king.
well, false accusations are nothing new.
but, this is fresh, and worthy of notice.
20% is quite high.
and justifies my statement at the time.
I am ready, however, to be your king in all other affairs.
“Tokugawa, who took over Japan after Hideyoshi, promised Korea that Japan would never invade again. Well, we know how THAT promise turned out.”
Like he and his sons kept that promise for about 300 years and the promise was broken only after Tokugawa Shogunate being overthrown in 1868?
“I don’t see how you could see Japan’s aggressive moves against Formosa in 1895, Japan’s aggressive moves against the island of Sakhalin Island in 1905″
Japan had no aggressive moves against Formosa in 1895,nor Sakhalin island in 1905.Japan’s interest was purely in Korean peninsula,that’s why there were no battle around the said two island in both Sino-Japanese and Russo-Japanese war
These two islands became part of the deal in Shimonoseki Treaty and Potrmouth Treaty almost by accident.
“Japan’s aggressive moves against Siberia in 1918 (which were finally thwarted by the Western Powers)”
Japanese Siberian expedition was organized mostly by the pressure from the U.S and Britain to Japan to contribute in counter-revolution in Siberia.
“The Western Powers” may had the second thought after Japan being enthusiastic about expanding the occupied area,but eventually Tokyo pulled it’s troops voluntarily.
“Perhaps, but in Japan I could take whatever stance I want, including the stance that Takeshima belongs to Korea, without jeopardizing my relationships with Japanese people. You couldn’t say that Dokdo is Japanese land in Korea. ”
Shakuhachi is right on this.
The most prominent supporter of Korean claim on Dokdo is the professor of Shimane prefectural university.And Asahi Shimbun’s current chief of commentary write an op-ed mentioning of dropping the Japanese claim on Takeshima in 2005.
“Koreans or anyone conquered by the Mongols really had no choice in the matter.
“Korea has no history of aggression toward Japan.”
The first Mongolian expediton to Japan
was