In the IHT, Choe Sang-hun talks to survivors of US carnage during the Korean War:
From a hilltop across a narrow channel, General Douglas MacArthur, memorialized in bronze, gazes at the beaches at Incheon where his troops splashed ashore in September 1950, changing the course of the Korean War and making him a hero here. At the harbor below, rows of cars, gleaming in the sun, wait to be shipped around the world - testimony to South Korea’s economic might and a reminder of which side ultimately emerged the victor in the conflict that ended 55 years ago.
But inside a ragged tent at the entrance of the Wolmi park, a group of aging South Koreans want to tell the world of a hidden side of the U.S. military’s triumph, a story of burning carnage not mentioned in South Korea’s official histories or textbooks.
“When the napalm hit our village, many people were still sleeping in their homes,” said Lee Beom Ki, 76. “Those who survived the flames ran to the tidal flats. We were trying to show the American pilots that we were civilians. But they strafed us, women and children.”
On Sept. 10, 1950, five days before the Incheon landing, 43 U.S. warplanes swarmed over Wolmi, dropping 93 napalm tanks to “burn out” its eastern slope, according to declassified U.S. military documents reviewed by South Korean government investigators.
Wolmi was not the only target. Starting last November, the government’s Truth and Reconciliation Commission began releasing a series of reports on Wolmi and two other sites where residents said large numbers of unarmed civilians were killed in indiscriminate U.S. airstrikes. Calling the attacks violations of international conventions on war, the commission recommended that the government negotiate with the United States to compensate the victims.
The commission seems to have a problem with US aerial bombing:
“We should not ignore or conceal the deaths of unarmed civilians that resulted not from the mistakes of a few soldiers but from systematic aerial bombing and strafing,” said Kim Dong Choon, a senior commission official. “History teaches us that we need an alliance, but that alliance should be based on humanitarian principles.”
This would be the same kind of aerial bombing that was perfectly acceptable against the Germans and Japanese, right?
Read the rest on your own. Anyway, this is hardly a new story.
Frankly, I have no problem — in theory — with paying compensation to allied civilians for losses incurred due to military action. But even IF compensation were to be paid — assuming 36,000 dead troops, a ton of military and economic aid and a 50-year security pact doesn’t cover it — the question then is, who should pay it? Wouldn’t it be best for the South Korean government — at whose invitation US forces entered the conflict and whose nuts were pulled from the fire thanks to said intervention — to handle such compensation claims? Perhaps as a form of compensation for US forces liberating Korea twice — once from the Japanese, and once from the North Koreans?
(HT to reader)
UPDATE: Concerning compensation to allied civilians due to military action, the Truth and Reconciliation Commission — then chaired by Father Song “Let’s Join Hands with the North to Kick Out USFK” Ki-in — cited in a report last year that the United States Congress did, in fact, enact law to pay restitution to French civilians who suffered losses due to actions by US troops in World War I.
As I pointed out at the time, citing compensation precedence from World War I is dangerous business, let one get the idea of slapping a mass indemnity on North Korea. I also pointed out the folly of asking the United States for compensation when President Roh said North Korea need not apologize for starting the Korean War, and another South Korean historical committee absolved from blame 83 Koreans found guilty of abusing Allied POWs in World War II.
I seriously, seriously doubt the government of Lee Myung-bak — who actually lost a sister in an American bombing raid during the war — will actually ask the United States for compensation; he seems to be of the mind that bad things happen in war, and the past is the past. Still, it’s amusing to think Seoul might demand money, in which case, we should prepare — if Britain and France could get stuck with massive war debts to the United States after World War I, surely, we could calculate a tab for South Korea, no?
47 Comments
I’ve had it up to here with your reasonable suggestions, Mr. Marmot.
Oh boy, I can’t wait to see the clusterfuck that follows this one…
Working late in New York = live view of online flame wars in Korea. So happy that the Earth is round.
Maybe somebody can elucidate this for me:
What has the South Korean done about the thousands deaths they they are directly responsible for? The thousands of suspected communists and war prisoners that were beaten to death in the streets or executed in the mountains by Korean police and soldiers, the dissidents that disappeared during the following 40 years, and the victims of the Kwangju uprising? Have their families been compensated?
Truth and reconciliation will be best served if these matters are addressed first.
Corretion:…the South Korean government…
Wow, even when they’re the beneficiaries of massive military aid, Koreans are still the victims.
Is there any legal precedent for this, for demanding reparations from allies? Surely there were collateral casualties in wartime France. Has France ever demanded reparations from the U.S. or U.K.? I would think not, as the U.S. gave France enormous post-war aid. But then, enormous post-war aid obviously isn’t enough to satisfy a certain Asian country . . .
First deduct compensation owed to every G.I. ever stationed here for being scammed, ripped-off, scalped and generally abused by Koreans since 1945.
Excellent points about how we have already paid anything- and so much more- “owed” to Korea/Koreans!
Today’s generations do not know the meaning of the word “gratitude”!
Something tells me there may be some other factors at work here:
http://rokdrop.com/2008/07/23/.....ring-deal/
#6,
You can’t seriously equate being stupid enough to go to juicy bars, knowing well that you’ll get scammed, with being torched alive by napalm.
I doubt the US will admit to anything as long as Bush isn’t out of the White House…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.....inal_Court
#7,
Yes, probably.
Tripod @3,
Don’t worry, TRC is working on that too. Look up “Unearthing War’s Horrors Years Later in South Korea” from New York Times.
@#5 Granfalloon:
France healed after the war. The French Resistance successfully collaborated with the Allies to liberate the country from the Nazis. In the post-war period, France restored itself to glory.
Koreans remain bitter because they failed to liberate themselves and their country remains divided. Korean history books give a lukewarm retelling of the US defeat of Japan, lamenting that the Korea Liberation Army never got a chance to realize its big plan to beat the Japanese themselves. Chung Mong-joon has repeated the bitter observation that the defeated enemy, Japan, was not divided, but Korea was.
France also recognized and confronted their collaboration under the Vichy government. Apart from some superficial labeling of rich Gangnamites as collaborators, Korea has yet to fully confront its own role in its history.Thus the endless search for “correct” history continues IMHO.
Division of Korea wasn’t the U.S.’s fault. It was Japan’s.
Japan’s Manchurian Army simply collapsed. Fastest advance in the history of warfare wasn’t Gulf War I, but the Soviet invasion of Manchuria.
Excellent psychoanalysis, everyone. But the Pyongyang-supporting groups using these war victims represent “Koreans” like Michael Moore represents Republicans.
Some Koreans remain bitter not “because they failed to liberate themselves” but because decades of military rule told victims of friendly fire and allied attack to suck it up for the good of the country. Still nursing the effects, they are easy prey for pro-Pyongyang agitators.
#8, well said.
#14
China was the last country to divide Korea by their intervention in the war. Lots of luck finding a Korean to agree with that point of view.
It’s time for the U.S. to pull their troops out of Korea and let them take care of themselves.
@#3
They are working on blaming America.
“General Douglas MacArthur, … …and making him a hero here.”
Hero? To who? Last I heard, there is 24 hour guards around that statue.
#8
No, I would never trivialize war like, say, an entire nation that “remembers” 36,516 US deaths for its freedom by provoking, abducting or throwing rocks at its soldiers. Or by vilifying them endlessly in their press and educating a whole generation on slander.
If South Koreans thought they could get away with napalming Americans, they would. Am I exaggerating? Look at all the 386ers who have been secretly hoping the Norks could hold on to their nuke program hoping they would inherit it after reunification. Roh was in no hurry to stop the Nork nuke program. They must be disappointed now that their orgy of revancheisme will be postponed.
Oddly, the North Korean Army practice of concealing itself among civilian populations in plain clothes never seems to get much discussion whenever these incidents come up.
Where is the outrage about that war crime? Why isn’t anybody seeking prosecution against the Nork generals who ordered that tactic with complete disregard for potential civilian casualties?
But why bother being outraged at causal war crimes when you can simply take history out of it’s context and apply the current norms of war to the past. Easier to rip off GI’s at juicy bars than reflect on the true evildoing of the Northern brothers.
#14
If America had decided not to intervene, I’m pretty sure there would have been an unified Korea.
#14
“Fastest advance in the history of warfare wasn’t Gulf War I, but the Soviet invasion of Manchuria.”
Wouldn’t that put the blame on the Soviet Union”?
No reason to get upset here. First we should put a cost on the intervention on the peninsula, conservatively say $500 billion in today’s dollars, and then charge that to the Korean taxpayers. Once that is safely in Uncle Sam’s coffers, we’ll dole out $1 million to each of these victims’ families. No problemo.
And while we’re at it, all the other combatants should get their billions of dollars and then they could dole out $1 million to a few families for every errant .303 round or 500-lb. bomb as well. It’s a fair deal.
I think that Mr. Choe, at least, wanted to show that some of these events did happen, regardless of how or why; to quote the last two paragraphs:
Mr. Chung recognized the need of people like MacArthur in defending Korea from Russian and Chinese-sponsored aggression but the message here seems to be that it is important to acknowledge what happened and then to consider why.
It is the attempt by some (so-called leftists and pro-NK factions) to politicize and redefine the “why” that bothers most reasonable people. I am very surprised that none of you have made this observation or is this yet another instance of having “good taste” over bad subject matter?
#19, An “entire nation” provokes, abducts, or throws rocks at US soldiers?
#23: “It is the attempt by some (so-called leftists and pro-NK factions) to politicize and redefine the “why” that bothers most reasonable people. I am very surprised that none of you have made this observation or is this yet another instance of having “good taste” over bad subject matter?”
Agree, Elgin. I was trying to make a similar point in #15.
@18
“Where is the outrage about that war crime? Why isn’t anybody seeking prosecution against the Nork generals who ordered that tactic with complete disregard for potential civilian casualties?”
Read a Korean newspaper (particularly Chosun Ilbo) for a change and you will find plenty of outrage exactly of the nature that you describe. Pick any North Korea related article, and read the comments.
rhouse has GOT to be a sockpuppet for someone that’s been banned…
All this resentment over this comment is simply giving the left wingers what they want.
Why are you Americans so fucking ignorant? I would start worrying when the government starts asking which it hasn’t. Nobody in Korea is going to ask compensation. Why? Cause millions died at the hands of the communists. Hundreds of thousands died in the political aftermath before the war.
The WHOLE POINT is to garner outrage.
@27 “rhouse has GOT to be a sockpuppet for someone that’s been banned…”
Calling you a wanker must have stung.
Why? As it’s certainly not true.
So… you are saying that your not a sockpuppet?
Or you are a sockpuppet
Sonagi:
I know Koreans are bitter about being a divided country, but to be honest, I’ve never fully understood this sentiment. Maybe someone can help shed some light on this for me, because I’ve always found the Korean bitterness to be overly simplistic, even childish. Are they unaware that the biggest threat in Asia in 1945 was not Japan but Russia? I could understand if they didn’t see this at the time: many didn’t. But good Lord, how could you not see it NOW, knowing how the last sixty years played out?
To cite another European example, West Germans in the 70s and 80s were not bitter about being divided. For the most part, they thanked gut Gott im Himmel that they were on our side of the iron curtain and not Stalin’s.
Koreans arent necessarily bitter just about being divided. They’re bitter about what its going to take to reunite the country.
East Germany is nothing compared to KJI and its ideology.
The biggest threat was Japan not Russia. Russia didn’t impose on the Norks and provided alot of assistance for decades before the collapse.
I’ll admit, Soviet treatment of North Korea was generally much better than the things they were doing to the European Bloc. In fact, if you only look at the first few years after WWII, the North was treated much better than the South. The Soviets were excellent, except for SETTING UP THE WORST GOVERNMENT IN THE WORLD. Oh, and supporting it throughout.
I believe some people are still owed 40 acres and a mule, so, “grab a ticket and wait in line”.
The Russians treated the North Koreans better largely due to the fact that the Russian Far east has always been somewhat off the radar for Moscow. In the east Russia was obviously more concerned with its relationship with China. So yeah, they didn’t impose too much but with more resources the story would have been quite different.
@30
WangKon, I think you just insulted sockpuppets everywhere…
From #26:
And for real entertainment, try discussing what you read about North Korea in the Chosun Ilbo with your friends and coworkers under the age of 40.
That being said, if you ventured into a dabang in smalltown Gyeongsangbukdo and started quoting Chosun Ilbo editorials, it might go over well.
I don’t agree with compensation for South Koreans nearly sixty years after the fact, but I don’t like the tendancy of some people to dismiss - or, at the very least, minimize - the reality of civilian casualties in wartime.
Most civilian casualties in the Korean War were likely killed and injured accidentally, but many of these were the result of negligently indiscriminate bombing. More than a few innocent South Koreans were outright murdered by US/UN forces. The same shit continues in Iraq and Afghanistan, to give but two examples, and I’m not convinced that civilian casualties are always a primary concern. (Not saying that most incidents are deliberate, but many are probably preventable.)
I’m not excusing the North for starting the war, the Chinese for assisting them in it, and by no means the usual ultra-nationalist assholes who will exploit any issue to demonize the United States. However the attrocities of the North Korean and Chinese militaries and South Korean military and police during the war shouldn’t somehow cancel out some of the evils perpetrated by the “good guys.”
“What to Do About Anti-Americanism,
by Kim Dae-joong”
Can anyone tell me if the Kim, Dae-joong who wrote this editorial is just some Kim, Dae-joong or whether its the ex-president?
Article is here:
http://english.chosun.com/w21d.....90017.html
[sorry if off-topic, but no open thread]
Well, it’s not the ex-president, Dear God, but it’s not “just some Kim Dae-joong,” either. It’s by Chosun Ilbo columnist Kim Dae-joong, Korea’s most influential conservative ideologue. Never talked to him (although I did share an elevator with him once
), but he’d probably like to be known as Korea’s William F. Buckley.
Hmmm… Thanks a lot. ^^
Americans were always known to be a bit eager on the side of friendly fire to the Brits at least.
Too bad the Korean War wasn’t fought with UAVs and satellites providing real-time imagery to double and triple check each target before dropping precision munitions with minimal collateral damage. Applying today’s standards of battlefield awareness and precision technology to 55 years ago is a farce.
If you accept that the “good guys” won, then you accept sacrifices had to be made for the collective good, and perhaps petition your own government for restitution if you really think you’re more special than say the family that lost two sons on the front lines. If you don’t accept that the “good guys” won, well, it can’t be too tough to cross over to North Korea nowadays, can it (just don’t do a 180 on the beach)?
arthjm: “Americans were always known to be a bit eager on the side of friendly fire to the Brits at least.”
Still nursing grudges about the Revolutionary War?
I notice an interesting double-standard here. The Chinese invaded from the north with “human wave” tactics that showed flagrant disregard for the lives of their own soldiers, and are not faulted for this inhumane activity. The US, however, is absolutely villified for errors. Perhaps that’s just the way it should be. The US is held to a higher standard, and this is an acknowlegement of their generally superior standards.
Robert @39,
Eh, those people wouldn’t understand my proud, Jeollado tinted Korean anyway.
BTW, am I the only person under 40 who is surrounded by young, frothing-in-mouth conservative Koreans whose grandfathers were killed by commies? It really feels like the number of young conservative Koreans is very much underestimated.
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[...] on the heels of the No Gun Ri anniversary comes this article from Choe Sang-hun that once again goes into the killing of civilians in Korea during the Korean War. I don’t [...]