Well, actually just one aspect of them: the nature of their opinion (or opinion formulation) on Korea and how they express these opinions on the Internet. In other words, why do expats complain so much about Korea? Our very own Roboseyo and Ask a Korean have done a little bit of a duet on the subject with complimentary and collaborative blog posts.
Some choice cuts from Roboseyo:
Imagine Chul-soo. He’s proud of his country. When he chats with a foreigner (which happens two or three times a week), he takes two minutes to explain that Kimchi is the world’s healthiest food. It’s only two minutes in his day, and he loves Korea — good for him, I say!
[However], [f]aced with such a flood of positive Korean promotion, it’s almost natural that we Westerners (who, at least among North Americans, have been programmed by movies and stories to go against the grain, and to prefer being right and alone over being wrong with the crowd), might start to push against the flood of Kimcheerleading with a bit of counter-balancing negativity, just so there’s a conversation, instead of just a room full of people nodding their heads in agreement.
Now, add to THIS the fact, because of our language limitations, a lot of us can’t access the Korean language media in print or TV. This means that, while there might be a very lively discussion of Korea’s social ills in Korean, because the English media editors and producers diligently excise almost all such topics from the pages of the English dailies, we have no idea whether social critics set the agenda in Korean public discourse, or whether Koreans just sit in circles repeating to each other the same things they say to us when they meet us!
Some passages from Ask a Korean:
The Korean has to be fair to expats: truth is that people love to complain, no matter where they are. People are also more vocal about the things they dislike than about the things they like. Expose people to a different environment, and there are always things to complain about simply because things are not familiar.
And to be sure, there are a lot to complain about Korea. The Korean does it all the time!..
…However, many complaints from expats that the Korean has seen show a certain level of ignorance. This is not to say that complaining expats are dumb. It is only to say that were they more aware of certain things about themselves and about Korea, they would not be complaining as much, and the pitch of their complaints would not be as strident. So this post probably does not answer conclusively about why expats complain about Korea. However, it would try to answer why some expats complain in the way they do.
Long blog entries, but entertaining and insightful. Check it out!
55 Comments
Thanks for the link; I’d like to emphasize that at the end of the post, I send a call out to other expats and expat bloggers: why do YOU complain about Korea? — I’m not so much looking for a list of grievances as a discussion of your motivation in doing so. I’ll post or link everything I can, ’cause I’d love to see a fruitful discussion of this take place.
Expat Bloggers Gord Sellar, Lunalil, Foreigner Joy, and Deborah of “I really do like kimchi” have also posted on the topic — links on my page.
Rob,
You can thank the big guy… he thought the dual entries were very post worthy.
Yes, WangKon sent the links to me yesterday, and I would have linked them earlier, but I’ve just been too busy this week to touch the blog much.
PS: I’ll “answer the call” tonight or tomorrow.
You know, I know this is going to come off as whiny, but not *all* expat bloggers spendtheir time bitching about Korea. Just some of them.
Greed/selfishness.It’s the bane of humanity.I suppose because of the denser populated areas here,it affects you more,thus more complaining.I think the levels of law enforcements that North Americans are used to prevent a lot of the other issues that grate on our bitch nerves here.
“why do YOU complain about Korea?”
For two basic reasons.
1) Koreans are stupid. Giving me ample complaining fodder.
2) Running over stupid jaywalkers and/or pulling the retarded driver out of his/her car and beating them is illegal under “The Man’s” law.
Therefore I complain.
Congrats to Robo and Ask a Korean. Two very thoughtful and thorough essays. I only wish more expats would read them.
One question for you both: I sometimes wonder if Korea’s emphasis on grouping and exclusivity contributes to expat complainers. Koreans, even at their friendliest, still draw a very obvious line in the sand when it comes to dealing with foreigners: “You can live here, but you’ll never be one of us.” Does this contribute towards making an oppositional expat identity? It sounds like I’m blaming Koreans for the stupid things expats say and do, which is kinda asinine. Still, can’t help but wonder.
“1) Koreans are stupid. Giving me ample complaining fodder.”
Well, I wouldn’t go that far… perhaps the better answer might be… They don’t do things like they do back where you come from?
#8
No. They’re pretty much dumb.
My lack of acceptance of their illogical and hypocritic behavior does not make them “OK because foregniers don’t understand”
Stupid is as stupid does.
Besides, I was “called out” to explain why expats complain so much. That’s my answer. And they’re can’t be a better my answer.
And stupid is…the jackass who didn’t use spell checker. *^.^*
@Granfalloon
I think you’re right in a way Koreans can be hard to “break into.” But I think on the flip side, once you’re IN, you’re IN. Like a shoe that is uncomfortable at first but after it’s been broken into, it’s one of your favorites. However, I think this is also true of other cultures as well. There’s a steep (and difficult) learning curve.
Also, of course, there’s that natural tendency to be wary of change. Letting in not just a new person into your comfortable hangout weekend group is a risk in itself (nothing like a sour puss to ruin a whole weekend)- letting a new person who is simultaneously new to the culture, who may very well not even speak the language enough to even contribute to conversation is an extra step most people intent on chillaxing as much as possible on the weekend after a long week may not be up too. After all, even the nicest foreigner who is brand-spanking new to Korea will take some degree of understanding and effort on the group of Koreans’ part to really integrate this new fellow into the group in a way that everyone enjoys themselves. It’s nobody’s fault because in a way, this is nobody’s “responsibility.” So this tendency of Koreans to hold foreigners at arm’s length is just human nature I suppose…. It takes really unique people to consistently include a totally foreign person into their social circle outside of work - a fact I think is true in any country.
—-
It’s kind of sad that articles like these that advocate mutual cultural understanding of the “other” are being ignored even on Marmot’s.
I mean, bring up the word “beef” and “ESL” - Marmot gets 50+ comments yet on thoughtful, NON-argumentative posts that encourage actual - I dunno, THINKING - or appreciation for another culture (American AND Korean) go ignored by some of the most frequent (and coincidentally, usually the most vocal and vitriolic) commenters on this site. Ironic. Sadly, I think this shows that the people who need to read this set of articles the most are the ones who aren’t.
there’s one view. I asked my coworker and he said “let me count the ways. . . ” — but he fully acknowledges that he was born in Texas, and was born to stay in Texas. He’s counting the days, and trying to avoid reading the Korean English language newspapers. Poor guy.
@ #9
I agree. Where’s that spell checker when you need it? “hypocritic?” And too bad there’s no grammar checker as well hmm? “And they’re can’t be a better my answer.”
‘My lack of acceptance of your illogical and hypocritic behavior does not make them “OK because Koreans don’t understand”’
Stupid is as stupid does.
StKY -
I’ll admit, I’ve seen some pretty dumb stuff since I came to Korea. But when expats start on the “Koreans are stupid” rant, the tacit implication is that we expats come from intelligent, enlightened societies, where no would ever does “dumb stuff.” Is that really what you believe?
If some one individual’s observations is that all of Korea’s people are stupid then I suppose there is a necessity to examine this observation.
But if this is merely what is felt and not seen then the accusation is moot.
Let us also remember that there is such as thing as editing.
If I were to post only my complaints, then that is editing.
We can only understand the story by how it is told~
Granfalloon @ 7,
you will have to read our next post in the series for the answer
“…why do YOU complain about Korea?”
Because the locals hate it, too….
For all of the chest-thumping, not ONE Korean has admitted, “Korea’s not the greatest place, but we like it because it’s ours.” That, I could respect.
Instead, I get treated to the continuous (and homogenous), insecure bragging about the “culture”.
What’s really sad about it all - when there’s no other Koreans about, I get to hear about how crappy it is in Korea…. and the locals tell tales which put the wanker-level complaining of this board to shame.
I feel really bad for Korea. So much energy, enthusiasm and raw… oomph (for lack for a better term) wasted to their version of Confucianism. I’m angry about the wasted potential.
That’s why I complain.
Andy,
“the locals tell tales which put the wanker-level complaining of this board to shame.”
Man, I laughed so hard on this one because I got a crazy flashback of all such complaining among Koreans. That statement cannot be any truer. The complaints that Koreans voice about themselves truly outrank anything that is ever on this blog.
I found Korea a mostly fun and fascinating place to live during my 5+ years there (1987-89 and 2001-4) while occasionally carping about certain things, like lawless driving, trade protectionism and the resulting high prices, and effusive jingoism.
What troubles me now, from a distance, is the huge and glaring “integrity deficit” I see in all of Korea’s key institutions: the media, political and religious groups, unions and corporations.
Granfalloon: “One question for you both: I sometimes wonder if Korea’s emphasis on grouping and exclusivity contributes to expat complainers. Koreans, even at their friendliest, still draw a very obvious line in the sand when it comes to dealing with foreigners: “You can live here, but you’ll never be one of us.” Does this contribute towards making an oppositional expat identity? It sounds like I’m blaming Koreans for the stupid things expats say and do, which is kinda asinine. Still, can’t help but wonder.”
By George, I think you’ve got it. But, as you suggest by the phrase “even at their friendliest”, there is much more to this. Have you considered how Koreans are at their most unfriendly, intolerent and perversely hateful?
One of the cultural differences is that Koreans tend to define people in terms of relationships, rather than individuals - and in a vertical structure, as opposed to a horizontal Western structure. As this relates to foreigners, foreigners are defined in such a way as to drive home the point that they are inherently inferior.
For instance, when a Westerner uses chopsticks, he faces a cascade of lefthanded compliments. The comment, “You are so good with chopsticks,” for instance implies that this person is a rare exception to the rule that Westerners lack the basic motor skills of a Korean child. Although still beneath the level of the sub-average Korean, this is the most exceptional of the Westerners. And he is exceptional only because he has learned to ape a Korean. He appreciates us; therefore he is showing signs of evolving beyond his inherently inferior nature.
So, now imagine the converse - when a foreigner does not appreciate us. If a foreigner criticizes any aspect of Korean culture, he has simply devolved to his apelike inner essence and must be reminded of his place. He is told that he misunderstands and, indeed, is actually incapable of ever understanding, Korea, just as a lower life form is incapable of truly understanding what it is to be human.
Well perhaps the expat, who is treated as sub-human, occassionally reverts to subhuman behavior and just needs to blurt out uncomplimentary comments about Koreans.
I complain because most, but not all Korean nationals are hyopcrites. Most things they say about themselves is nationalistic BS that can be easily disproved.
For example, without any knowledge of world cuisines, Koreans will say that their cuisine is the healthiest in the world. Nope. Sorry. Mediterranean cuisine is healthier.
A Canadian friend told me that a Korean guy even told him that rice farmers from the US and Canada wanted to take over the Korean rice market.
Canadian rice farmers?! WTF?! No xenophobia there.
Before any gyopos here jump on my ass, how many of you have served in the ROK military again?
for that matter #18, I wouldn’t even serve in the US military….haha
“In other words, why do expats complain so much about Korea?”
self-hate for choosing to live in a country that won’t change fast enough to their liking?
Kujo:“In other words, why do expats complain so much about Korea? self-hate for choosing to live in a country that won’t change fast enough to their liking?”
That may be possible but hardly a major factor. However, in pinpointing hate, you have put your finger on one of the major themes that expats mention.
Dokdo for instance is used as a mechanism to inculcate impressionable young minds in the hatred of the Japanese. The US beef issue is just the latest in a series of strategies employed to instill anti-American hatred.
What foreigners observe is a nation that appears to believe that it needs to define its identity in terms of a persecution complex. They notice that they do this by inculcating its youth in hatred and prejudice. This is perceived bt them as shockingly distasteful and has often been criticised as a form of child abuse. The fact that protestors brought their children to the anti-American demonstrations was cited in this regard as well.
“In other words, why do expats complain so much about Korea?”
I like Korea. I don’t like SOME of the natives though - due to what I personnally perceive as “inexcusable idiocy”.
Before I go on, idiocy knows no borders - I find it everywhere. But since this is a Korea Blog, I will direct my comments to the idiocy I find here.
SOME of the local population have this “me, me me!” attitude, all the while screaming about what is OWED to them by virture of their age, birthplace, gender, or hardships their long dead relatives faced. Personnal accountability is also related to this - or lack there-of. Be it the guy who walks in the middle of the street (when there is a sidewalk present), crap drivers, or the parents who let their children play in traffic - unattentive to them.
On top of this, creative thought, or opposing viewpoints also appear to be frowned upon. Example, I see one coffee shop open up in a section of downtown - it makes money (do to its exclusivity to the area) and a month later there are 10 more all within farting distance. To mean that equates to 1 creative business owner, and 10 lemmings. Then of course we have the “popular viewpoints” that people gobble up and take as trueth. Where-as I was taught to question, many idiots take for face value.
Its hard to sum up the responce to the question. At best I can say “I complain about korea for is large density of many idiots.” Other than that - the place is cool.
“kimcheerleading” I love it.
Here’s my two won:
I’m pretty consistent in my complaints about Korea–I want Koreans to make their society better for themselves, not for the perceived status of being an “advanced nation” in the eyes of others. I know where this obsession stems from and I’m sympathetic to a point, but people, give it a rest.
Almost all of what Mr. Marmot blogs about comes from this national “Hey, look at us, we’re an important country!” obsession, which has as its variants “Japan and the U.S. are out to get us” and “we’ve suffered more than the Jews in the Holocaust.” If Korea as a society just tended its own garden (clean up the trash that’s everywhere, deal with social inequities, come down hard on corruption, stop arbitrary law enforcement, etc.), then there would be more to admire and less to deride for expats and other non-Koreans living here.
### 17,19, 21
Hear, hear!
27 michael: I remember reading an article (sorry, no link) where a Korean reporter asked the president (maybe ex-president) of Yale University what Korean universities should do to crack the Newsweek top 100 list, and he basically said the same thing: “stop obsessing over comparisons, and become an excellent school;” the accolades will come if you work on making the school better, instead of mulling over benchmarks.
I wonder if the word “benchmark” is misunderstood here. If one is going to quantify and qualify progress, then one needs benchmarks - statements about what a person or organization can do - and assessments that demonstrate whether the benchmarks are being met. Benchmarks are standard in education. We give benchmark tests at the beginning to assess what the students already know about the unit standards and then again at the end to see if the students have mastered the standards. Our annual school improvement plan has specific benchmarks that include goals for student achievement on state tests. A benchmark is not about comparing with others. It’s about setting standards/goals and using assessments to know whether they were met. That is EXACTLY what Korean universities should be doing if they wish to achieve excellence. Perhaps you do know what a benchmark is, Roboseyo, but if you do, then your statement about “mulling over benchmarks” doesn’t make sense as worded.
roboseyo, exactly, stop worrying about rankings and who’s No. 1 and just improve the quality of life for Korean people for its own sake.
you’re right, Sonagi. I should have said “rankings” instead of “benchmarks”
about once a week the IHT’s Joongang Ilbo insert prints a write-up about some comparative survey or another, and doesn’t explain the criteria or methodology, or take any kind of an analytical look at the numbers or what might explain them, and spouts off about “Korea’s wasting its money on English: look how low our TOEIC scores are!” or whatever. It’s a frustrating article, because every time, my students come into the class in a tizzy about this or the other, and I shake my head at how uninformative the statistics are. (and I’m a liberal arts major!)
Does anyone else feel a pang whenever they talk about “the Koreans?” Prior to coming to Korean, I always thought it was a gross error to lump any nation of people into the same category in terms of beliefs and opinions. Then I came here and was informed by umpteen Koreans that this is most certainly the case. Should I take the Han at their word and assume they all have one unequivocal voice? Or should I regard such Koreans with the same smile and nod that I give to people who talk about the health benefits of kimchi?
Or is this comment just more expat complaining?
“Or is this comment just more expat complaining?”
What is the sound of one expat complaining?
I think #20 mizar said it best and summed up the main beef that I have as not being allowed to engage Korean culture as an equal, but rather as a circus chimp who has finally become human-like. The best example, though, is the let’s-shoehorn-the-weyguk-into-a-hanbok display that the media set up to give Joe Kim a hangasm. The other thing that bugs me about access to the culture is the all-too-frequent superlatives that accompany any display. Case in point being someone I know of who was an ardent student of a certain Korean stringed instrument during his years here. He reported seeing a program on TV about the device and was put off by the exhortations that it produced the purest sounds in the world, or some such nonsense. I like it here and will gladly partake in many things, particularly the culinary side of the culture, but give me a friggin break from the rhetoric and the bombast, puh-lease.
“Or is this comment just more expat complaining?”
What is the sound of one expat complaining?
You should have come to the pub with me last night to find the answer to that.
# 11,
It looks like the comments on this posting are slowly building, which is fine. When 50 comments pop up for a post in just one day… it ususally means someone is flaming somebody else, which is not fine.
My comment on this will be up soon, but it’s taking time because it’s gonna be long…
32 Granfallon:
I think referring to groups en masse is allowed if you make qualifications — by my personal theory, it’s deeply engrained in human nature to look for patterns — developing the faculty to notice that when the sabre-tooth tiger moves THIS way, it’s prowling, but when it’s moving THAT way, it’s just out to enjoy the sun, would be an important darwinian step.
One of my friends in university was a missionary’s kid, and if you want to talk about a group of people really tuned into different cultures and mores, diplomats’ kids might be the only ones who top MK’s. He said he put people in “stretchy bags” instead of “boxes” — by keeping his categorizations for people flexible, and never crystallizing them, he gave people room to do a 180 flip, or something totally unexpected, and he never made any judgement final. Paying attention and noticing general patterns helps one explain mystifying behaviour, but unequivocal judgement is unhelpful once that mass group breaks down into individuals. (maybe I’m just stating the obvious here)
I’d say it’s similar in the battle of the sexes — there’s a lot of variety from one man, or woman, to the next, but there ARE some patterns and principles that can be helpful, just so long as those rules of thumb don’t become absolute judgements, or prejudices.
AaronM: if an expat complains in a forest, and nobody’s there to hear it, is it still culturally insensitive?
AaronM: if an expat complains in a forest, and nobody’s there to hear it, is it still culturally insensitive?
I dunno, but when I gripe in a near empty pub, nobody gives a toss.
I guess expats will never understand a county that:
- invites foreigners over to work and then mistreats them;
- criticise others while not abiding any criticism in return;
- invites expats to teach English and then heap abuse on them for it;
- solicits foreign business ventures and then prosecutes them for making a profit;
- depends on US exports for survival while promoting violent demonstratations against US imports;
- promotes Korean culture while exhibiting cultural triumpalism;
- teaches hatred of foreign nations in the schools and then accuses other nations of racism;
- calls for calm when a countryman is murdered by a NK soldier but go ballistic when their national pride is offended by the suggestion that trade is reciprocal;
- invites foreign troops to take on their massive defense needs and then bristles at being asked to contribute to the cost;
- makes a point of saying foreigners can never understand them while promoting eggregious misconceptions about foreigners;
- promotes alliance with the US while demonstrating against them;
- engages in prostitution in epic proportions and then follows foreigners around with cameras to ensure that they don’t “misbehave” with female nationals;
- antagonizes expats and yet lables THEM racists.
Korea has been called a land of contrasts. Foreigners find out soon enough that this is quite a euphemism.
@35,
“the main beef that I have as not being allowed to engage Korean culture as an equal, but rather as a circus chimp who has finally become human-like.”
Welcome to the world of racism! Asian Americans have been experiencing it for quite some time over on the other side. You finally know what it feels like.
#40
Ditto.
Sorry for the delay. It’s been a busy past few weeks.
I thought Roboseyo and The Korean’s analysis was excellent and timely. Someone should of tackled the issue head on and I’m glad they did it.
My thoughts have always been that Korea isn’t an easy country to live in… if you are Korean or non-Korean. Hell, millions of Koreans have already voted with their feet. I know in LA, there are 10’s of thousands of Koreans that keep on coming to the U.S. The supply of Koreans who speak poor English in my neck of the woods is seemingly never ending. That kind of continued immigration is telling for a nation that is supposedly developed. Again, Korea is a hard place to live in unless you are rich, IMHO.
Korea’s society is highly confucian and neo-confucian at that, which means that it is a highly individual confucianism. Japanese and Chinese societies may be confucian overall and in a large scale sense, but Korean confucianism is a lot deeper ingrained in the Korean soul. For example, Koreans have five different names for an aunt (and uncle) as well as seemingly zillions of other titles for bosses, business owners, supervisors, friends, classmates, etc., etc. Chinese and Japananese? Much simpler.
Even if a lot of expats have a somewhat privileged economic position here since they have a decent job considering their background (which besides a college degree is often times modest) Korea is a different country then a lot of English speaking countries, particularly the U.S. It’s an adjustment, to say the least. The industry that they operate in, private education, is notoriously under regulated. Sometimes these expats are not treated in a manner that they are use to, coming from a country that has, how shall we say…. more developed labor laws.
Thus, you have a person (or group of people) who are stuck in a country that’s small and very different than they are use to. Also, the society and the norms of that society is very different than what they are use to. Korean style confucianism that permeates so many levels of that society can be very difficult for someone raised in a very individualistic, Western country. You are always told what to do, even by strangers, you are always asked your age, always have people budding into your business, etc. Add on top of this the language barrier and it can drive some people batty. Expats can’t fully engage in Korean society, nor do they have a lot of people that they can have complex, witty conversations with.
You mix all this together, and one can see why you can get a significant number of frustrated people who crave regular and normal communication other then “how old are you,” “are you married,” “why are you not married,” “do you like Korea,” etc., etc. Once they get on the Internet and believe themselves to be otherwise anonymous, that’s when all the things they could not communicate finally comes out with other people who can understand what they are going through. When you don’t think anyone knows who you are, that’s when conversations about you thinking that Koreans are “lemmings” or not “critical thinkers” or “just follow the herd” come into play. It’s natural to believe that how you have seen the world for most of your life is the best and most natural way. You may not realize that saying so is a bit culturally imperialistic, but any ways.
Shit… this is getting longer than I thought!
My analysis has two major weaknesses. One is the fact that I haven’t spent a meaningful amount of time in Korea and two (similar to The Korean) I don’t know any non-Korean expats personally (although I do know Korean Americans who taught English in Korea, but that’s completely different). I would hazard to guess that it’s probably not easy to walk a mile in their shoes. I bet some of these fellows have experienced real racism in 2002 when those two girls were run over by an American IFV. I always take that into account when looking at expat comments in the blogsphere. However, what I take offense to is not the criticism. As I’ve said before, there is A LOT to criticize about Korea. It’s when some expats cross the line beyond criticism and just complain because things are different. The people are different, the way government acts is different, and the way people live and tackle problems are different. And because they (Koreans) are different, they are derided, seen as tacitly inferior and insulted. That’s what I take offense to.
At the end of the day, I think expats have a lot of useful and meaningful things to say about Korea and Koreans. I found Mike Breen’s book on Koreans and Cullen Thomas’ book on being in a Korean prison immensely interesting and very useful commentary on Korea and Koreans. Like Alexis DeTocqueville, I believe smart commentary by expats can provide Korea and Koreans an enormously good and decent service. However, it’s when expats unfairly criticize and ruefully insult that they do not only a big disservice to Korea and Koreans, but also that kind of intellectual dishonesty is also a big disservice to themselves and their mental development as good, honest and fair human beings. Lastly, if expats uniformly offer insulting criticism of Korea that has so much spit in it that it’s hard to discern kernels of truth in what they say, they will only be accomplices in their own irrelevance and the hissing noise of their wounded discontent will drown out anything that will offer meaningful and useful commentary. And if expats can’t provide anything meaningful in their commentary on Korea, then they will be fairly remembered by Koreans as people who cared more about themselves and their comfort, than in Korea and its people. For those expats that have a more permanent interest in the country, I’m sure that’s not a legacy they want their kind to leave.
thanks for that, Wangkon. I’ve been waiting to see what you’d say. Reading what others have said, and writing about it myself, has really helped me. Stay tuned for The Korean’s and my post this weekend on the other side of the “accusing expat/defensive Korea” dynamic: “Why Do Koreans handle Criticism so Poorly?”
(ps: I really hope you’ve read Gord Sellar’s writing on the topic, too.)
I don’t know where you learned Chinese and Japanese, but those two languages also distinguish between maternal and paternal relatives and use titles in addressing people although China is more relaxed about this. Japanese is even more complicated than Korean in talking about family members because Japanese distinguishes between talking about one’s own family member and another’s with informal and formal terms. Within the family, formal terms are used in direct address to elders.
And Chinese, like Korean, distinguishes between older and younger siblings, aka aunts and uncles, of your mother and your father. I don’t recall whether Japanese does.
WangKon, nice exposition. If I may beg to differ, it’s not intolerence to cultural differences that drives expat criticism. Portraying the expat as an intolerant troglodyte, which just isn’t true, simply begs the question.
And there’s no need to posit elaborate explanations; Occam’s razor applies.
It’s abundantly simple. The problem is: (are you ready?)
narrow-minded parochial xenophobic racial triumphalism that not only excludes and pidgeonholes foreigners but actually demonizes them.
The “Korean” doesn’t get it either. This is not remotely like any last vestages of racism that Asian Americans may experience in America, which is simply innocent ignorance. What we have in Korea is pernicious and cancerous.
One last comment. As Freud is reputed for having said: “sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.” Likewise, sometimes mass ignorance is just mass ignorance. The fact that it takes an expat to say this naturally means that the messenger will be shot. He’ll be villified as a racist,a cultural intolerent, and, most ironic of all, an incompetent unemployable who needs to come all the way to Korea just to find employment (which is an ironic criticism that tacitly acknowledges that which it attempts to dispute about Korea itself.)
But as Freud deftly points out, such misplaced criticism is nothing if not psychological projectionism - grossly transparent overcompensation for feelings of inadequacy.
Obvious as this is, the expat comes away with the unavoidable impression that Koreans are not a very self-reflective nation and, while extremely thick when it comes to self-examination, are equally inclined to assume the absolute wost about foreigners. Insofar as one would characterize this as a cultural war, the shots are fired entirely from the Korean side, with the bemused foreigner sitting on the sidelines watching self righteous Korean nationals shadow boxing with their own projections, which they conflate with the person of the foreigner himself.
Now, I can appreciate the perspective of feeling misunderstood. But to be accurate, it is a feeling, and not a reality.
roboseyo, my # 43 was more of a rough draft / data dump. I’ll write something more coherant in your blog as well as The Korean’s.
Sonagi,
I suspect China (but less likely Japan) has specific titles for familiy members that may have its Korean equivalents. However, I suspect that the Chinese use them far less frequently than Koreas because when I talk to Chinese in LA and ask if they have equivalents to aunt on mother’s side, aunt on father’s side, oldest aunt-in-law, youngest aunt on mother’s side so on and so forth, I get puzzled looks from them.
Hi everyone. Part two of the series: “Why are Koreans so Sensitive to Criticism from Non-Koreans?” is up now, on my site and at AskAKorean. The Korean has some very good points to share.
@41: If America is so racist toward Asian-Americans, how did your parents manage to snag immigrant visas to the U.S.?
Just curious.
@43: It would be interesting, in terms of fairness, to hear from you, or from someone similarly situated, the numerous hissing complaints many expat Koreans have against (non-Korean) Americans.
All this talk about “expats” unjustly criticizing Korea without mention of some of the myriad complaints of the vastly more numerous Koreans in the U.S. might imply that there is nothing there to compare.
Dogbert @51 and 52
I’d have made that part of the series, Dogbert, if I had any experience of it, but I don’t. I do mention that I haven’t seen any proof that expats in Korea are worse than expats anywhere else. I am interested to know what immigrant groups say about their new homes, to each other, in their own language, and frankly, I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s pretty similar wherever you look, especially among visible minorities.
Blog about it and I’ll link to your post.
Also, if you read more on The Korean’s site, AskAKorean, you’d see that he regularly states his opinion that America is the least racist country in the world. However, that still doesn’t mean that jackass at the bus station will necessarily shut up. (It DOES mean that if that jackass takes a swing at you for no reason, than because you look different, the law will protect you.)
I don’t blog.
Offhand comments like “The Korean”’s annoy me because white people in the U.S. are often familiar with being on the wrong end of racial animus, as many white people living in Brooklyn can tell you. On the other hand, no one in Korea is racist against Koreans.
Not to mention that in the U.S., there have been Asian-American state supreme court justices, university chancellors, state governors, high federal government officials, etc., which tends to indicate that there is no systemic racism against Asian Americans. And, as wangkon said, they vote with their feet, so flippant comments are not germane here.
I concur with that assessment - United States is the least racist, most open-minded, and most accepting country on Earth. Assholes will be assholes anywhere, but in United States, assholes can’t act like assholes without being called assholes. Forget the physical violence - even verbal attacks are reciprocated with exclaims of disgusts from the society.
I mean, where else can songs like this be written?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbud8rLejLM
I find that my generation of Americans are at a point where issues like racism is seen as so absurd and obsolete, it only serves as a target for mockery or satire. It has come to the point where the Jewish guys tell the best Jew jokes, Asian guys tell the best Asian jokes, and Black guys tell the best Black jokes.
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