As reported here (and here) almost two months ago, the Japanese actress Fukumi Kuroda had worked to get a memorial to a Korean kamikaze pilot set-up in his hometown of Sacheon. The state-run Korea Tourism Organization was even going to promote the memorial to Japanese tourists.
According to a report in the San Francisco Chronicle, protestors have stopped the memorial from being unveiled and it has been taken down and stored in a nearby temple.
I guess one could chalk-up two for Korean protestors this month.
{ 117 comments… read them below or add one }
It never ceases to amaze me how violent the protests become when anyone other than Kim Il Sung or Kim Jong Il are being promoted…
Korea was, for all intents and purposes, Japan during WW2. Koreans served in the Japanese army–not all were melancholy or forced.
It’s time to set aside the hatred between current and former allies, regardless of what Pyongyang says…
no, korea was korea, idiot. is iraq america? man, can we say moron?
ps the guy in the picture is actually me. you finally get to see me, guys.
Fukumi Kuroda–that’s certainly a blast from the past!
No one ever did shrimp sex scenes better than her (or the raw egg yolk exchange scenes) in “Tampopo.”
Kuroda Fukumi is far from revisionist and has been very active on promoting friendship and reconcilliation between Japanese and Koreans for long time.
And most of the money for the memorial came from the donation by leftwing civic groups and ordinary citizens in Japan wanting to build memorials for neglected Korean soldiers for they think Japanese are responsible of their alienation.
Yeah, they did fight for the wrong side,but they are still Koreans.
And being a Kamikaze pilot isn’t exactly commiting a war crime like killing civilians or beating POWs.
No one is expecting Koreans to honor the Kamikaze pilot,but at least Korea can offer some resting place for their fallen brethren coming home at last.
And according to the Japanese media coverage,it seems that Korean counterparts,mostly the city official of Sacheon,were very positive with the memorial.Even the mayor of the city of Minami Kyusyu,the city where former base of Kamikaze pilot existed,had organized an event of reoncilliation.
But things went wrong since the city of Sacheon actually did next to zero publicity about why they are having this memorial in the first place and as the things gets ugly,they shyed away,leaving Kuroda(and mayor of Minami Kyusyu and almost all of the major Japanese media outlets)facing angry protesters as if this whole venture is purely the product of Kuroda’s quixotesque vision and not much else.
It was only a matter of time that the Korean medias make up “patriotic,PC Korean protesters” VS “delusional Japanese actress with revisionist history” angle.
“Chalk-up two for Korean protesters”?
That is just pathetic.
Ms. Kuroda in action (possibly NWSF, but I don’t think so):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRJw7j7sm4Q
#5
Chinese and Koreans will not able to move on and Japanese are naive to not know about it. Japanese govenment to this date did not made official apology to its act in WWII. So what do you expect!! Maybe another generation to come…
Namuamitaba
Actrually we did.Numbers of times.
If the kamikaze was a real Korean and not loyal to the Japanese, he would of taken that plane and turned it on a Japanese target once in the air.
His actions show exactly what he was.
#8
Numbers of times? and what was responses from Chinese and Koreans?
Regret=Apologize
Is this what you mean?
I want to hear this…
“If the kamikaze was a real Korean.. ”
If your standard of being “real” Korean applied in 21st century,Kim Jong Il shouldn’t be alive by now.But that’s not happening.
You are expecing too much to a guy who lived and died in hard times.
I recently had the opportunity to watch the movie, For Those We Love. The segment involving the Korean pilot did not last very long, nor did I think it accurately portray the life of a Korean as a Japanese Army pilot. That said, I would probably rate it higher than the Korean movie, Fighter in the Wind, which was little more than revisionist fiction.
As examples of where I think For Those We Love fails in showing what Koreans went through, in once scene, the Korean’s Japanese section leader went out of his way to give him preferential treatment, such as letting him stay behind in a restaraunt to eat a special dinner when the unit was called to alert. In another scene, the Korean pilot said to the Japanese owner of the restaraunt that she treated him better than his “Korean mother.” Because his was not a central role in the film, he was killed off fairly early, I got the feeling that his role was just inserted as a message that even Koreans served as kamikaze pilots more than anything else.
The Japanese film, The Human Condition, might be an interesting one to compare and contrast in terms of imagery and message.
A better film than For Those We Love for portraying the times, in my opinion, is Yomyongui Nundongja (黎明의 눈동자). This drama is not without its problems, but I think it does a better job than the Japanese film.
If Ms. Kuroda truly wants to bridge the gap between Japan and Korea, my hat is off to her and I hope she can make a difference. She chose an odd subject to try to accomplish that, though.
Actually Kim Jung II, I totally understand.
He is following the historical Korean political position of servitude and dependence upon the Chinese Empire.
It is the Southern Koreans who are the strange lot. They want to believe, follow, and express the principles and freedoms introduced by the visiting Westerners and Missionaries from the late 19th and early 20th Century.
Not all of them.
Pawi,
Korea was part of Japan during World War II, and Koreans supported and fought on the side of Japan. And if Japan had won the war, Koreans would have been celebrating with “banzai, banzai, banzai” right along with the Japanese.
I read an interview with a Korean comfort woman who admitted that she and the other women used to get excited and cheered when they heard of Japanese battle victories. She excused herself, though, by saying that she was young and didn’t know any better at the time, which is true. Most Koreans did not know any better because they had grown up as members of the Japanese empire.
Koreans supported Japan in the China and Pacific wars, and I think it is only because the Allies wanted to break up the Japanese empire that Koreans were allowed to distance themselves from Japan after the war and make excuses for their support of Japan during the war.
From the history I have seen of Korea’s colonial period, there is not enough there to explain the supposed Korean hatred for Japan; therefore, I think most of the hatred for Japan was generated after the war through brainwashing by the Rhee Syngman government, who force-fed young Koreans anti-communist and anti-Japanese propaganda.
I think the reason there was so little support for punishing collaborators after Korea’s so-called “liberation” was because most Koreans had been collaboraters. However, I do not blame Koreans for collaborating with Japan because most had grown up being part of the Japanese empire and knew nothing else.
What I do blame Koreans for, however, is their attempt to try to hide the truth of the colonial period through lies and exaggeration.
Kamikaze pilots made the ultimate sacrifice for their country while attacking military targets, not civilian, and I think they deserve to be honored as much as anyone deserves to be honored for fighting for their country in war.
Since Tak Kyung-hyun was fighting for his country, as he knew it, he deserves to be honored, as well. I think the Sacheon city government should allow the monument, even though I do not understand the relationship between a kamikaze pilot and a 3-legged crow.
No worse than the Roh regime pardoning war criminals who commited some truly unspeakable acts against the men who were ultimately trying to liberate them.
re: 15. gbevers
Man, that’s insane. But I think I would partly agree with your assertion there were koreans who were glad to be a part of the japanese empire. My paternal grandparents always spoke really highly of the japanese. My grandfather was a city official who worked closely with the japanese, so I guess that makes him a collaborator.
Even to this day, my grandmother never stops praising the japanese character and belittling the korean character.
‘However, I do not blame Koreans for collaborating with Japan because most had grown up being part of the Japanese empire and knew nothing else.’ bevers
the most important question here is, who cares who you blame, gerry? tell me something; howcome you are the only one who seems to be aware of this? show me a credible source that portrays koreans as allies of the japanese.
most people aren’t going to buy your story. that’s why koreans should pay no attention to you. indeed, the name of the game here is to let you keep talking.
have a good day, ger.
No doubt that there were Korean collaborators, seeing as my paternal grandfather and great-grandfather were one.
However,
“Korea was part of Japan during World War II, and Koreans supported and fought on the side of Japan. And if Japan had won the war, Koreans would have been celebrating with “banzai, banzai, banzai” right along with the Japanese.”
this is insulting to my maternal grandfather/great-grandfather, who stowed away/provided safehouses for liberation army soldiers and their families. And man, why do Koreans celebrate March 1st again? Maybe it’s because it would be a nice spring day outside…
Generalization at one of its worst, unsurprisingly shown off by Mr. Gbevers.
Any Irishman wanna comment on how much they loved being a part of the British Empire?
Jeongsoo,
My Korean mother-in-law also spoke highly of the Japanese, and even went to Japan to study. She said that she never saw any of the bad things that the Japanese were supposed to have done in Korea.
By the way, my mother-in-law’s father was a village leader until he and my mother-in-law’s brother was tortured and killed by communists in front of the other villagers. Needless to say, my mother-in-law did not have anything good to say about communists.
I do not understand what you think is insane since you said your grandparents also thought highly of the Japanese. Do you think your grandparents was part of just a small number of Koreans, which included my mother-in-law, who thought highly of the Japanese? I think there were many, many more who felt the same way.
Maybe if everyone started confessing what their grandparents told them about the colonial period, we could get a better picture of what it was like during that time.
BumfromKorea,
Where did you maternal grandfather and great grandfather live that allowed them to provide refuge to Korean liberation army soldiers? Also, what would have happened to them if they had refused to provide refuge?
By the way, if your maternal grandfather was such a great Korean nationalist, why did he allow his daughter to marry the son of a Japanese collaborater?
Despite severe shortage of men in Japanese military, Koreans weren’t drafted into the Japanese military until 1944. Japanese leaders were hesitant to arm the Koreans, fearing they would revolt. But by 1944, Japan had no choice and a full draft system of Koreans took effect.
I find Gbevers claims that Korea was an ally of Japan during WWII, simply ludicrous.
Here’s a good run down of Japan’s draft of Koreans into Japanese military:
http://www.ww2f.com/war-pacifi.....rvice.html
“”It is not appropriate to carry out this war only at the expense of Yamato people (ethnic Japanese) because if the war kills only Yamato people yet leaves Koreans, they will, together with their formidable power to reproduce themselves, pose a serious threat in the future” (An Outline of the History of the Army System, Masao Yamazaki). “
#20
Who is alive and well now to remember that? Hate is hate is hate, no matter the grounds for it. There’s couple of good Star Trek episodes about the futility of inter-planetary hate. I wonder if any of those ring a bell to ethnic haters on planet earth. I guess not. Let there be peace on their mind…
“My Korean mother-in-law also spoke highly of the Japanese, and even went to Japan to study. She said that she never saw any of the bad things that the Japanese were supposed to have done in Korea.”
So should historians base their papers on their mothern-in-laws? What your mother in law said or didn’t say, can also be countered 100 times by other mother-in-laws who say the opposite.
#10
“Numbers of times? and what was responses from Chinese and Koreans?”
well,they were either “that’s not enough” or “the apology was not sincere enough” or “show me the money”.
Anyway,when you guys get really ready to reconcilliate,instead of searching for the “righteous”reasons to get angry at Japanese,perhaps our “apology” sounds much better to your ears.
#20
“Any Irishman wanna comment on how much they loved being a part of the British Empire?”
I can safely say that no one in the Kuroda side have ever thought about the purpose of the memorial is to commemorate the Korean contribution to the now gone empire.
They just thought Yasukuni(or anywhere in Japan) is not the right place for their souls to rest in peace.
Granted, if that’s what this Japanese woman’s intentions are, then she’s doing a noble thing, and her good intentions are being misunderstood. But that’s all I can comment on, since I don’t know anything about her nor about this case.
First of all, “Great Korean nationalist” would not fit their bill, as they just wanted to help their neighbors. But I can safely say they weren’t exactly the “Banzai!” type of people that you claim them to be.
Second, while it didn’t bother them that my dad was from a family of collaborators (not as much as the fact that my paternal granddad was in the KCIA during its infamous years), my paternal granddad was furious that he was marrying into a family full of anti-government protesters (once again, during the Park and later Chun era).
Third, it is quite insulting of you to imply that they were forced to do so, not to mention confusing considering that he was harboring soldier’s family and soldiers who couldn’t handle the resistance activities any more.
Fourth, they’re both (paternal and maternal) from Pyoungan province, my maternal living in what is now North Pyoungan province while My paternal living very near Pyongyang.
@23, ethnic Japanese would be the Ainu and other various inhabitants that were there long before Koreans and Chinese migrated to the island.
Chinese migrants probably explain why the Japs look nasty looking like the Chinese.
“Chinese migrants probably explain why the Japs look nasty looking like the Chinese.”
Jesus McChrist….
BumfromKorea,
So your maternal grandfather was not harboring “liberation army soldiers,” but was harboring “former liberation army soldiers” who had given up the resistence for whatever reason?
Well, wouldn’t that mean that your grandfather was harboring them from the Korean liberation army, who probably did not like their members deserting them? If that were the case, wouldn’t that mean that your maternal grandfather was not a real Korean nationalist, afterall?
I do not mean to be insulting. I am just trying to get to the truth.
By the way, did, or does, your maternal grandfather lean toward communism?
Yes, perhaps the liberation army command (assuming such structure existed), while too busy getting their asses kicked in Manchuria, had spare time to threaten my grandparents and the people he’s harboring living quite a bit into what would be an ‘enemy territory’. And no, they weren’t deserters, assuming such concepts existed in the liberation army.
My maternal grandparents fled to Bosung, South Jeolla province (where they had estates) right after the liberation, fearing the communist reprisal. But as you know, the town was overtaken by the communists and they held a public trial. My grandparents were almost executed, but the townspeople stood up for them and they were spared (thank goodness they were charitable people). Of course, being spared by the communist meant they had to face the music again after SK government took over, and grandfather was almost executed again, except that one of the militias used to round up communist sympathizers knew him and intentionally missed his shot over the mass grave.
I was told all of this AFTER reading Taebaek Mountains, so you can guess what my initial reaction to all this was.
anyway, the point of all this is, the claim that Koreans thought of themselves as Japanese is quite misleading at best. No doubt that collaborators existed, and most people were too afraid and/or inactive, but calling that as waving the imperial flag is a bit of a stretch.
@30, are you trying to insinuate that I’m American, because I assure you I’m not.
Whats funny is that most of Asia cannot handle capitalism. Not because of the money or modern technology that comes with it but for the cold hard fact that women now get options in life.
When women have options they tend to get picky, ergo you get Japan.
Lowest marriage rate in the OECD
Lowest percentage of kids under 18 in the OECD
Rank dead last 3 times in a row in the durex sex survey.
And then you wonder why Japanese women are desperate to come to Korea, even start memorials lmao. And with K-dramas being so popular these nasty looking asian retards are going on a jealous rampage which will never end.
Most Asian women i talk to, have only seen good looking men who were either Korean or Vietnam. Not to mention I take great pride is knowning i can have almost any Chinese girl.
Who can’t? LOL
Chinese and Japs.
I think you missed the context there dumb ass.
Come to think of it, you’re probably one of the white nerds who get rejected by them.
No, I usually modify the exclaim “Jesus Christ” because I think it sounds funnier. I was just aghast at your blatant racism.
bumfromkorea,
Be careful. I’ve encountered gbevers online since 1999, and one consistency about him is that he will not view Koreans (as in all) as anything more than willing allies of Japan against the US in WWII. He will quote out of context and selectively listen to his mother-in-law’s words about the Japanese as some sort of substantive support of his views that the Japanese weren’t as bad as most Koreans say they were and that the entire nation of Korea fought with Japan against the Allies (tell that to my family who hated Japanese rule). He will even justify the Japanese colonization of Korea and question the validity of the Comfort Women.
Oh and when this is brought up and anyone like me or you questions him, he will use his typical “goofball” response to label us, as if that has anything to do with his many comments questioning Koreans’ testimonies regarding Japanese colonial rule.
@37, its not racism. I’m part of the same race. Technically its considered group bias.
The fact is most Asians are ugly, the only ones i’ve seen who are good looking are from Vietnam and Korea and to an extent the Philippines.
Its reality they need to face it.
If you want proof or a vision of the future for all these china men look at the durex sex survey.
Bottom 10
China
Taiwan
Hong Kong
Sinagpore
Japan
#33, Stacked. “Not to mention I take great pride is knowning i can have almost any Chinese girl”.
If by that you mean Anhui peasants with mud between their toes who are so desperate to escape poverty, then good on you, stud. Anyhow, I’m sure you get excited as Omma tells you this every night when she tucks you into bed after locking up the grocery store. Bravo your (fantasy, non-existant) sex life!
Ugly words, ugly man.
Wow… what kind of racism and ignorance …
“And if Japan had won the war, Koreans would have been celebrating with “banzai, banzai, banzai” right along with the Japanese.”
You know the weird thing. The Japanese got the “banzai” chant with upraised arms from the Koreans. According to the Nihon Shoki, envoys from Silla celebrated news of a Sillan victory with cries of “mansei!” which is just the Korean pronunciation of the old Chinese “live 10,000 years” chant. However, they adopted the pronunciation from Koreans. So mansei became “manzai” in the old Japanese pronunciation and later on became “banzai.”
I think your confusing racism with the truth.
Japan and Taiwan are nerd central. Not even an ugly woman wants a nerd.
I am simply stating what women prefer. Blame it on GOD.
I don’t know… my aunt in Hokkaido will probably disagree with that assessment of Japanese men’s general attractiveness.
@wangkon
I did not know that… I always assumed that it was the other way around (banzai –> mansei), transferred during the occupation.
# 46,
Absolutely not. If you are interested in early Korean history, you really should read the Nihon Shoki, where the three Korean kingdoms are mentioned very frequently.
The specific fact that mansei became banzai is expressed by W.G. Aston in his extensive annotated notes.
There are too many ignorant comments in this thread and I just don’t know where to start.
some info about nihon shoki:
‘The Nihon Shoki is said to be based on older documents, specifically on the records that had been continuously kept in the Yamato court since the sixth century. It also includes documents and folklore submitted by clans serving the court. Prior to Nihon Shoki, there were Tennōki and Kokki compiled by Prince Shōtoku and Soga no Umako, but as they were stored in Soga’s residence, they were burned at the time of the Isshi Incident.
The work’s contributors refer to various sources which do not exist today. Among those sources, three Baekje documents(Kudara-ki,etc) are cited mainly for the purpose of recording diplomatic affairs.[1]
Records possibly written in Baekje may have been the basis for the quotations in the Nihon Shoki. But textual criticism shows that scholars fleeing the destruction of the Baekje to Yamato wrote these histories and the authors of the Nihon Shoki heavily relied upon those sources.[2] This must be taken into account in relation to statements referring to old historic rivalries between the ancient Korean kingdoms of Silla, Goguryeo, and Baekje. The use of Baekje’s place names in Nihon Shoki is another piece of evidence that the history used Baekje documents.
Some other sources are cited anonymously as aru fumi (一書; other document), in order to keep alternative records for specifi….’
all my ancestors come from the sw of korea.
It is my sincere hope that somewhere in some old, dusty Japanese temple there is a copy (or at least a significant fragment) of a Baekje history book that will give us some insight into Baekje’s side of the Samguk story. What we have now is mostly Silla’s side of the story. Not necessarily Kim Pu Sik’s fault as he didn’t have much to work with.
Pawi, so your family is from Chollado?
Good god stacked, your delusions that you, your 민족 brethren, and your Vietnamese boyfriends are the most handsome Asian males, is highly embarassing to you and you truly make you look like an ass.
For the record, Korea usually ranks near the bottom of those surveys about frequency of having sex. Maybe it’s just relatively ugly girls that are responsible for the low ranking of the countries you mentioned in #40?
@45 you outdo yourself. Imagine if white expat started introducing himself into your comparison, how would that go over wrt being racist/telling the truth?
of course Pawi’s family is from Chollado.
“Chinese migrants probably explain why the Japs look nasty looking like the Chinese.”
It’s this statement that shows so indelibly what you are, Stacked. This sentiment, so blithely put, allows you in a few words to tolerate anything bad that might befall a group of fellow HUMANS.
I also like your responses. It’s almost like you’re looking around saying, “what, what?”
An earthquake in China; “Well, they were nasty looking so no big whoop.”
“Jesus McChrist” indeed!
You act like I feel guilty. Its too bad you have no idea what kind of rampant jealousy, nationalism just goes on. Our nationalism in comparison to the rest is nothing.
These guys are surviving on nationalism. Without nationalism they would be committing suicide.
China and Japan are countries that are comprised of individuals at the bottom of the ladder and to keep society from breaking apart, collectivism with nationalism is instilled.
Basically they survive on everyone being at the bottom this way relative to their group they are better. Unfortunately when another group comes along that is better ie Korean wave rampant jealousy and anger arises because they get reminded of reality.
Stacked, through your words the dreary architecture of your soul truly blossoms.
Its a shame the world is so ignorant to the filthy nature of Asia. There’s a reason why there are no good looking folks here.
Typical American exercising F.A.E.
My soul is fine, you should start paying attention to the context of things sometime.
Nihon-shoki? The book that says Yamato Japan had control over the southern tip of the Korean peninsula? And that the kingdoms of Paekche and Silla were sending their princes as hostages to Yamato but not the other way around? Yep, “history” is strange.
Stacked, you should think about adjusting your meds before any future posts.
hey stacked:
from one korean to another,
please STFU
ppl like you make me sick
stacked is a troll guys…stop feeding him
gbevers: It’s probably reasons like that (not ’seeing’ the bad stuff) why the communists came to kill your in-law grandparents or what not. My wife’s parents were well off as kids as well in Seoul back in the day, and knew quite a few Japanese families and can concur that they were treated well by both them and the government. However, as kids like to have fun, they did go traveling and let’s just say that how the poor or country folk were treated was much different and often got the hard end of the stick. Much different from older Korean rule? Probably not, and hence why the communists could care less that most the rich they were executing were Koreans, but it’s always easier to complain about more recent events and targets that are more viable.
Skookum,
The Nihon-shoki is still a valuable source on early Korean history. Yes it does talk about Yamato ruling the southern part of Korea (the statelet of Imna/Mimana). However, the arguement that they infact didn’t can also be found in the Nihon-shoki because the source is extremely inconsistant in describing Imna, it’s geographic location appears to shift (which would question if the chroniclers themselves even knew where Imna was), and Imna’s alligance shifts between Baekje, Silla and Yamato. Is Imna Pon Kaya, Tae Kaya, or Ara Kaya? One can’t say for sure by reading the Nihon-shoki because it appears that the writers didn’t even know. Sometimes Imna refers to a specific Kaya statelet, sometimes it refers to all the Kaya states collectively.
The Nihon-shoki is obviously a patchwork of a lot of different sources, and one can certainly see that when you read it. However, it was written by people where the three Korean kingdoms are a living memory and you can definately tell that they all hated Silla.
skookum, what is your response to wanggon? gets you mad, huh, skook?
and yes, wang, we’re cholla people. will that make you look down on me further?
nah… at least you are not a jeju-do native.
Real prejudicism toward’s chollado people started in early Koryo, when Wang Guhn called you people stubborn, inflexible and forever rebellious in his Ten Injunctions. Understandable considering that Hu-Baekje was his toughest enemy.
And I don’t expect an organized response because very few people have read the Nihon-shoki. I read it twice. Once just for the hell of it and a second time to make sure I correctly understood what I read.
the proto koreans loomed large in the eyes of the proto japanese and yet, you can find almost nothing about it in popular print here in the west. for almost 600 years, korea was the primary source of technology and culture and yet, western ‘historians’ on japan seem to have simply cut korea down to footnotes.
this new guy sid said the japanese have a complex with the koreans because koreans keep bringing stuff up. the koreans are trying to correct the record because japan’s distortion of it’s own history requires the distortion of korea’s history. the japanese have used their money to pay westerns to cut the han out of the picture. now that koreans have money, they’re sewing back in.
ain’t nothing wrong about that.
#65
You’ve seen comments here by expats who’ve lived in Japan, right? Didn’t they say that nobody in Japan really refutes Korean influence over their culture? It’s your hate-mind that makes you think the other way.
Anyways, those who brought advanced culture to Japan back in the three kingdoms period stayed there, no? Like refugees from Paekche, some of who probably were involved in compiling the Nihon-shoki. So they’re actually ancestors of modern Japanese, but not you.
#65
Thanks for giving me the credit as the new guy after calling me 90# Chinman with desire for blonde @#$%. Were you on medication on the last thread? Please have the link on your next credit. That will be nice. Xie Xie.
Agree with you on Korean setting the record straight..I just wish it could have be subtle.
“Japan can pay Westerners to cut the han of the picture”
Since Japan had been a well off country and its soft “culture” power influenced many in the western world so that process itself is what you call “buying off” Correct? If that is case, Korea needs to spend more money but don’t expect immediate return!!
#66
Well said but cannot blame Korean for its possesion on “blood line” going even beyond the current geopolitical area. Korean in Japan five thousand years ago is still Korean…huh?
But the TRUTH to be told, Korea needs to get the respect that is long overdue in Japanese history.
Pawi,
Wang Guhn’s comments on Chollado people in his Ten Injuctions, from the Koryo Sa (for information purposes only, no disrespect to Chollado people):
“Injunction # 8- The topographic features of the territory south of Kongju and beyond the Kongju river are all treacherous and disharmonious; its inhabitants are treacherous and disharmonious as well. For that reason, it they are allowed to participate in affairs of state, to intermarry with the royal family, aristocracy, and royal relatives, and to take the power of the state, they might imperil the state or injure the royal safety- grudging the loss of their own state [which use to be the kingdom of Baekje] and being resentful of unification.”
Then it goes on for another paragraph or so about making sure slaves or offspring of slaves should never be given government posts, etc. but most of the 8th injunction was just one big rail against Chollado people. I mean, I could understand him having a grudge against later-Baekje people since they killed his best friend (Shin Sunggyeom) in a battle near Daegu. Just seems really odd that he would say Chollado people have bad Pung Su.
“And if Japan had won the war, Koreans would have been celebrating with “banzai, banzai, banzai” right along with the Japanese.”
gbevers,
This may be news to you, but a cheering crowd in a totalitarian regime doesn’t really mean anything. I had as a high school classmate- a Persian gal who lived during the days of Ayatollah Khomeini and she said she screamed with the best of them during the rallies. She had to. If she didn’t, certain plain clothed “observers” in the crowd would make a mental note of her apparent lack of enthusiasm. Then she’d go home, take off her Burqa (which had a t-shirt and jeans underneath) and listen to Michael Jackson songs.
thanks, wang. i always appreciate the info you give about korean history.
skkokum, you need to read my post again. and don’t bother with this ridiculous idea that once baekche collapsed, it’s enire population dissappeared from korea and somehow reappeared in japan and china. that would soooooooo convenient for those japanese who despise koreans, wouldn’t it? the idea defies logic. and besides, we ain’t just talking about people.
‘westeners being paid’
look up edwin reischauer. a respected ’scholar’ on japan. his book on ancient japan referred to korea on just two pages.
‘90 pound chinamen.’
that reference wasn’t to you. please, i’m much too polite.
‘more subtle’
you mean like your people during those riots against japan? you mean, like the duan wu fetstival? a chinese lecturing a korean?
lol.
“you mean like your people during those riots against japan? you mean, like the duan wu fetstival? a chinese lecturing a korean?”
Since you are in the level of Chinese Fenqing, I understand you need to vent your pent up frustration on passionate issues like..US Beef!!! As far as Duan Wu festival issue, I admit that was funny. Chinese government fucked up and became very bad sore loser..but I hope they learned their lesson to perserve classic tradition better instead of copy everything western.
You read my mind!! I need to lecture poor Korean naive soul such as yourself so you may be become a nobleman 君子 someday.
Hey Stacked…
It’s really funny and cute to see Korean males like you go absolutely nuts with your chimerical fantasies of how your people are supposedly the most worshiped “beautiful people in the world.” Funny how you actually believe the horseshit that your country’s media portrays your people. However, once you step outside of that laundromat or liquor store that your daddy owns and put down those Koreaan tabloids which make your people out to be living Brad Pitt Adonises and see for your own eyes how your fellow brethren are viewed in the world, I guess it must hurt. From what I hear from most other Asians who have had to endure the pain of being in a relationship with a typical Korean and have been able to forgive them for the black eyes and broken teeth that come with the package, this is what I hear from Chinese, Vietnamese, Japanese and Taiwanese people about your people (with the exception of Wangkon, WJK, bumfromkorea, and other good K-American guys who are at least in human form compared to the Hanminjok sewer from which you were spawned):
I guess your idea of “best looking” is probably of the following:
Korean men are:
- Flat faced as wide as a cylinder block
- Have huge heads
- Tiny rice size penises
- Bad breath
- Are prone to acts of sheer stupidity, immaturity, and idiocy even when sober. I saw a group of Korean men, aged 35 or so, start swear and screaming and kicking a parking meter which had taken their coins. The other Koreans were all cheering the head Korean on while he was screaming “Shibal seki (motherfu-ker)” and kicking the parking meter in extreme anger. Never have I seen a grown man get so upset at a parking meter. I guess this is normal Korean behavior…something like a 5 year old child in my country would do.
- Are prone to violence against women to prove their “manliness”
- Chain smokers and drink soju while jacking off to porn from other countries
- Have plastic surgery to reduce the size of their huge faces and slitty eyes
- Can never think for themselves but always need about 1000 other fellow Koreans to think for them.
- Have no sense of creative adventure..instead just follow others like sheep
- Will always resort to cheating on tests or bribing others with money to get what they want instead of hard work.
- Are mama’s boys
- Have the body of a 14 year old girl or a pre-pubescent Leonardo DiCaprio but walk around town like they own the sidewalk
- Love to spit everywhere..
As you can see, Korean men are so romantic and classy.
Face it Stacked…if it wasn’t for plastic surgery, your entire brethren would resemble Kim Jong Il, Sandra Oh, and Margaret Cho…real epitomes of world class beauty there.
And you decided to prove your point by describing us like the Chinese?
Whatever satisfies your self-esteem china man or american nerd, whatever you are.
The funny thing is everything you say rings true for the Chinese.
But lets keep it real. Its obvious being called ugly has touched a nerve. Especially true when being called ugly threatens your self-esteem and you decide to write a monster post and god knows how long you sat there thinking of every chinese stereotype.
I’m good looking and so socially well.
You and the Chinese are fucked for life, as Americans say.
Right now I’m getting the impression of you similar to an angry nerd video I once saw on youtube.
its late, there’s alot the grammar and sp mistakes.
ladies and gentlemen, once again i present to yet another exciting edition to the pantheon of fine righteous expats. only this time, i present to you somethin slightly different. ladies and gentlemen, i give you the expat supreme:
‘once you step outside of that laundromat or liquor store that your daddy owns….’
‘From what I hear from most other Asians who have had to endure the pain of being in a relationship with a typical Korean…for the black eyes and broken teeth that come with the package….’
‘Are prone to violence against women to prove their “manliness”’
‘if it wasn’t for plastic surgery, your entire brethren would resemble Kim Jong Il, Sandra Oh, and Margaret Cho…real epitomes of world class beauty there.’
did a korean man beat you up? man, you got problems.
Pawi,
Take this from the heart since I truly do mean it…despite the fact that your reputation as the biggest supplier of manure for the brain is well known here on the Marmot’s Hole, I can’t even begin to compare you with the toilet rag that Stacked has presented himself to be. Consider this a compliment Pawi…you’re a saint compared to Stacked.
A Korean troll spreading his stench from his base on French soil…Jesus Christ, could there be any combination more foul than that?
Ah yes…the Korean alpha male..that symbol of Korean strength, austerity and beauty…complete with the classic Korean temper tantrum (at parking meters and any foreigner who says he/she does not like kimchi) and obsessive s24 hours/day stalking of those people (usually women, foreign children under the age of 10, tabloid magazines, Jay Leon, Apollo Ohno, Meg Ryan) who he feels are threatening to his “manhood”, the classic phallic cigarette dangling from his mouth while trying to look “bad ass”….what female in the world could not find that attractive? LOL.
Overly effeminate (something not helped by the retention of immature physiognomic features – facially and bodily or overly hamming it up as “tough guys” a stance again not helped by the afore-mentioned paedomorphism.
Korean men are all head and jaws: I mean that in the literal sense too, but girls will always weigh up their genetic interests in light of what the male has to offer them. A little eye-candy is icing on the cake, especially if she doesn’t have to endure the hawking & spitting, lack of chivalry, immaturity, rudeness and stomach wretching bad breath of the average Korean guy (kimchi, soju, cigarettes, fish guts and garlic in concert truly produce a rancid smell, akin to a fart from the Yi Dynasty). So as for manly, not really, but every society does have differing standards of masculinity: I just think that Korean guys lack credible role models, and just try to mold themselves into an unappealing amalgam of geek / mama’s boy / salary man / team member.
Now Rain and 7even..there you go, Stacked…good measure for you Koreans to aspire to be the pinnacle of Korean masculinity in the form of wife beating, chauvinistic, boorish, uncouth and uncultured meatheads, similar to the Italian-American stereotype in “Raging Bull.” However, the main differentiating factor between Koreans and their chauvanistic guido counterparts is that whereas Italians will be wearing wife-beater t-shirts with hairy chests underneath, Korean chauvinistic wife beaters have the added trait of resembling trans gendered, chicken-chested, hairless drag queens…what a combination.
I had no idea bbundaegi was an angry Korean feminist.
Netizen Kim,
I apologize if my words have offended you, WJK, Wangkon or even Pawi and any other of the more sensible minded KA’s in here who have at least a brain that has developed past the medulla stage along with an opposable thumb. It’s just that sometimes, you have to be harsh to get a message across to individuals like Stacked who seem not to have been as fortunate.
But with that, I would really like to know how you and the other normal kyopos in here feel about an individual like Stacked as a representative and voice of your people. What do you guys feel when reading his posts? Shame? Pride? Pity? Laughter? Maybe a combination of all? Emotions are quite confusing, aren’t they?
One thing that also puzzles me is why he is so hung up on degrading Chinese (along with Japan, white America, Europe, Taiwan, etc.). Seems like he was hurt very badly by a Chinese person in the past…perhaps a girl to whom he was attracted called him or Koreans ugly….perhaps a Chinese guy kicked his ass for being what he is? I’d pay that guy a dime to see him do it again.
Have a good one, Netizen…
“kimchi, soju, cigarettes, fish guts and garlic in concert truly produce a rancid smell, akin to a fart from the Yi Dynasty”
bbundaegi,
Wow, quite a litany of “stereotypes” you got going on there.
But there are exactly that. Stereotypes.
Yes, bbundaegi, show that racist off by… spewing more racist sentiments. That makes sense. When I encounter a KKK rally, I typically react by making a sign of my own that says ‘White people should be sterilized! Glory to the Choson Empire!!!’ That makes me look like a rational person criticizing the racists. Yep.
Now if you’ll excuse me, I have to go and spit on my date while drinking soju and eating garlic-laced fish gut soup. It’s her birthday – I should make it special. Perhaps I’ll invite my mom to it while I’m at it, then invite my dad to beat her up. I sure hope me and my rice-sized penis will get some! High five!
Good God. It’s no wonder I rarely browse here anymore. Even the bona fide who comment – and I’m being very generous – can’t but help being utter pieces of shit.
#81: LOL!!!!!!
#81, I don’t think bbundaegi’s racist. I think maybe he’s been traumatized by too many bad dates with Korean men and he’s finally lashing out.
C’mon, no one sees stacked as a “representative” and “voice” of anyone’s your people.
For those requiring a representative voice, that role is exclusively held by Al Sharpton. All other people get to speak for themsleves. As individuals.
I don’t see him as representative of anything other than his own syphilitic asshole, but it is interesting to see who jumps to defend him.
Who jumped to defend who, dogbert? I don’t think I saw anyone defend either stacked OR bbundaegi.
I am dying reading from #72..
bbundaegi,
Why wasting your energy on wrost of wrost Korean like stacked…but it is good stuff!! May I get your permission to reference your fine description on Korean men?
Siddhartha, Bum, Wangkon, Dogbert and others…I have to apologize for the outburst of racial stereotypes which I provided to Stacked. However, please bear in mind that I was only doing so to give him a taste of his own medicine. I think that perhaps Bum is correct in that it really doesn’t make things better to combat a bigoted idiot with his own ammunition, but I will say that it does put a smile on my face when I imagine an idiot like Stacked having to face the same garbage that he spews out freely. I will cease to do any more damage as I realize that all of the sensible Korean guys here would feel that my words apply to them which is not the case. However, it’s amazing that Stacked is allowed to freely spew his offensive and idiotic comments about Chinese (who have nothing to do with this topic in the first place) and others with racist terms. I can count on one hand the number of terms I have heard anyone refer to Koreans as “gooks” here, but to keep track of the number of times I have seen Stacked and Pawi spew “chink” or “jap” from their fingertips, I would probably need an 1 MB Excel spreadsheet.
That does however bring up the question that someone else in this thread asked (it seems as though it was deleted, however) of how it is that Stacked is still allowed to post here. Is he seriously a financial bloodline for the Marmot’s Hole? How did Pawi (who I think is less offensive) get banned while Stacked is allowed to roam free and make spots like a dog with a diarrhea?
#88
I am glad you enjoyed the humor. Sure..go ahead and use the description. I really didn’t think of it myself…most of the comments are a compilation of what I have heard from others including friends of mine in Korea.
bbundaegi,
Honestly speaking… I don’t really read stack’s comments, however I would have to agree that using racial stereotypes to combat racial stereotypes is probably not the best strategy.
I’m sure if this was a Chinese or Japan subject blog there would be a whole lot of dumping going on regarding stack’s original comments. Since this is a Korea centric blog so it was your comments that raised more eyebrow’s first. Not fair I know, but unfortunately life sometimes isn’t.
In other words, them that dish it out can’t take it.
Dogbeat takes it up the ass like a choir boy, whimpers like a dog after being run over by a car, but then comes back the next day for more.
oo00ps, massive typo, I meant to say:
Dogbeat walks up the aisle like a choir boy, prays like a god after being overcome by the lord , but then comes back the next day to pray for more.
Apologies to all concerned for any unintended interpretation of the above comment.
“It’s really funny and cute to see Korean males like you go absolutely nuts with your chimerical fantasies of how your people are supposedly the most worshiped “beautiful people in the world.””
I suppose the truth that beauty is in the eye of the beholder is not well understood in extremely ethnocentric cultures.
As for the science of beauty, “people are attracted to normal sizes and balanced, symmetrical features,” according to Piotr Winkielman, of University of California at San Diego who has conducted a study of this subject. “We screen for disease by looking for imperfections.”
To me, Koreans soemtimes tend to look a bit undernourished and sickly, even compared to Koreans living abroad. I spent one summer travelling Asia and upon my return, what struck me the most about the appearance of Koreans was their pallor. While Koreans often strive for whiteness, it is often considered unattractive elsewhere.
However, in one regard, I can understand why Koreans might consider themselves god’s gift to beauty – participants in the stuedy showed the most positive response to simple, balanced shapes and patterns, suggesting that ease of mental processing contributes to human attraction – ie. easy on the eyes.
According to the article on Ivenhoe.com “the beauty-in-averageness effect is a phenomenon that explains biological predisposition to assign higher mate value to people with prototypical features. Beauty-in-averageness also explains why people are attracted to the girl-next-door and boy-next-door types, according to Dr. Winkielman. He said people are generally attracted to faces with balanced, symmetrical features that are easy for the brain to process. “Massively popular actresses like Scarlett Johansson and Gwyneth Paltrow are not exactly exotic,” he said. “Their faces are very balanced and symmetrical.”
In other words, when you’re so used to homogeneity, you will probably not have an open mind when it comes to people who differ from the norm that you are used to.
you know marm, i’m no friend of the expat but i’m rather surprised you’ve let a certain poster continue here even though his target isn’t very smpathetic in my view. this kind of poster is more apporpriate for occidentalism, a blog your blog is starting to resemble.
Bye, bye, bbundaegi.
Commenter banned.
I have a probably excessive amount of patience, as indicated by my allowing you to continue posting here. That patience is running out, however — if things continue as they are, expect a purge.
The racist commenting – directed at Koreans, Chinese, Japanese, whites, etc – have really been over the top the last couple of days. Totally unnecessary, and, in some cases at least, deliberate attempts to insult/hurt others. Not cool.
Thanks for clearing up the double post. It seems I have twitchy fingers. I agree with Pawi’s above comment about that this place too resembling the Korea bash site. Often Koreans and Kyopo are personally attacked for merely expressing our opinion, or our opinion disregarded for our ethnic status. What level of elementary school children do we have here?
However, I do not suggest banning of individuals, that can limit discourse. I hope you let Bbundaegi back at some time.
@92: Koehler, that’s a perfect example of the shit that drives commenters like bbeondaegi over the edge. Without the nastiness and out and out racism of pawi, swlee, stacked, and random netizens drawn to your site, there would not be that sort of reaction.
swlee, you are like one of the millions of Korean netizens who jack themselves off while talking tough. You think you can give me a “beat down”, quit your masturbation and take it offline. Hell, just mouth off to the next white man in Seoul you see — for all you know he could be me — and see, as they say, how you like eating corn on the cob with no fucking teeth.
# 98,
However, I’d say that there are gyopos here that feel as if they need to “give as much as they get” which doesn’t have the effect of putting water over a fire but throwing gasoline on top of it.
Perhaps a bilateral cease fire would be in order.
I’d prefer that the “angry expat” would become aware of their latent racist and the prejudices inherent in many of their statements. However Dogbeat hasn’t changed his tune in years, and I don’t expect it to either.
Who in turn are often set off by the Korean/gyopo baiting. Everyone needs to stop.
#103, Cept the Korean trolls like stacked that do get baited don’t really go over the top from the usual… it’s more of the same ol’ same ol’; you know what to expect and can conciously ignore them. What I’m surprised at is how some of the ‘normal’ posters seem to have even more pent up hate than the former… just wow. Just goes to show people aren’t really that different deep down, manners just coat the outside differently.
Hmm…I don’t know whether to consider Jap a racist word though, I know quite a few Japanese who simply say, “Nah I’m Jap man” if you get their nationality mixed up. Also hear friends say that for short as well in front of’em. I remember Nip being the standard fare but I guess it depends on the context and where you’re in?
Can’t we all just get along?
swlee: “I’d prefer that the “angry expat” would become aware of their latent racist and the prejudices inherent in many of their statements.”
I’d prefer that people on every side just acknowlege social criticism for what it is, and put away the tired old race card.
On the other hand, I’m willing to put up with a bit of empty rhetoric and hyperbole because I find that the level of dialogue here is generally better than elsewhere. A goodly number of contributors here present well-thought-out positions and back them with respectable evidence, which I find relatively rare on internet forums. I am encouraged by the level of maturity and cultural sensitivity exhibited here, which I consider to be important prerequisites in discussion of cross-cultural themes.
But there is a clear distinction between academic “cultural sensitivity” and real, gritty rubber-meets-the-road telling it like it is. What is just plain silly is to be lectured at by some well meaning but unknowlegable pedantic about “cultural sensitivity” as though he/she is the standard bearer of some abstract ideal that he/she has just discovered.
No, what I witness here are not “angry expats” but experienced cross-cultural dwellers who are highly qualified by firsthand experince to express their cultural criticisms. The charge that they are speaking out of “anger,” “racism” or cultural triumphalism is a cop out, a denial of the contributions of genuine cross-cultural thinkers/livers.
A little roughness is only to be expected in an environment in which emotionalism and systemic distortion trumps reason and logic. If the environment allowed for real dialog, the language would naturally be more measured and diplomatic.
The abuse that outsiders suffer may make them vehement, but “anger” is quite an overstatement. As Bruce Lee phrased it, “I said emotional intensity, not anger.” Nothing wrong with that.
Well, perhaps it is, but perhaps it isn’t. Shouldn’t they put up a statue of Roh Moo Hyun instead? Seems like he is the person who is most respected in Korea now with all of these ridiculous beef protests.
“No, what I witness here are not ‘angry expats’ but experienced cross-cultural dwellers who are highly qualified by firsthand experince to express their cultural criticisms.”
Mizar, does the same thing apply to people of Korean descent living in America and Canada who point out the often-negative behavior of so-called “experienced cross-cultural dwellers”? Because the ones swlee refers to as the “angry expat” do throw the “racist” term around a lot, too, as it regards Koreans and those of Korean descent like myself while those of Korean descent think it’s the other way around.
I just want some consistency from you. If you’re sick of the “racist” accusation in regards to those who (often overly and unreasonably) criticize Korea, Koreans, and even Americans and Canadians of Korean descent I hope that means you’re tired of it coming from white expats living in Korea as well. I and others of Korean descent have been accused of racism on this blog frequently by some of the “angry expats” when I felt it was not called for. I hope you will be consistent and say that such an accusation is wrong since you are so quick to brush aside the “racist” label in regards to white expats in Korea.
JK, all well and good, but it does not explain or excuse the blatant racism and prejudice some of those same Korean or kyopo commenters display toward Chinese, Japanese, or Mexicans, for example.
“Mizar, does the same thing apply to people of Korean descent living in America and Canada who point out the often-negative behavior of so-called “experienced cross-cultural dwellers”?”
Naturally.
“I and others of Korean descent have been accused of racism on this blog frequently by some of the “angry expats” when I felt it was not called for.”
Same here. What you describe would be inexcusable. I’m sure there are some angry people around but I personally do not pay that much attention to race baiting. Next time it happens, point it out, and I will support you in condemning it.
#108
As for Japan, I think they really believe that asserting Korean cultural suzerainty over Japan’s is a just cause, because for one, they really believe Japan cheated its way to becoming a major world power by stealing a lot, if not everything, from the Koreans, and for two, they believe the entire Japanese nation is in denial of Korean influences on its culture and gene pool, which makes them all the more angry given their first belief. The unthankful Japanese.
Okay, dogbert, yes, the racism displayed toward Chinese, Japanese, and Mexicans by some kyopos is wrong. And the usage of the term “Jap” on this blog by one or two kyopo commenters did make my cringe.
(Then again, I had one Korean-American friend who would refer to his Chinese friend as a “Chink” which I thought was racist and inappropriate till I found out that he used the term to describe people of ANY Asian descent, be it Chinese, Japanese, or Korean. Some sort of Gen X, Southern, ghetto talk or whatever. And yes, he referred to me as a “Chink” as well. I would have normally kicked anyone’s ass that had said that to me, but it coming from )a smaller fellow Korean-American who described himself as such, what could I do?)
As for Stacked, he does go overboard….but then again, I didn’t think anyone would take him seriously.
“As for Stacked, he does go overboard….but then again, I didn’t think anyone would take him seriously.”
I think this is a good point, when the insult is blatantly bait, why swallow it? Perhaps such overly sensitive peoples shouldn’t be allowed to climb on the Internet.
Sure racism is bad, but it is not alone type of insult here. What about cheap personal attacks on peoples wives, like ******************** (content deleted by Robert Koehler). We need to emliminate shuch references to make Marmots Hole clean and fresh, somewhere we can all relax while saving the worlds problems. Not have to listen to derogatory talk about ****************, or something else.
Policing for racebaiting is a good idea, however it is something many of us Koreans have been doing on this site ever since the occidendalist rats jumped ship and infested this blog board. Lets work together.
Are you sure it starts off with “Korean/gyopo baiting”, Robert? In case you haven’t noticed, race baiting is the game the white man usually loses, and to my eyes the kyopo/Korean anger on this site is unjustified.
Surely you are not saying the invective from the likes of swlee is an appropriate reaction from reading the commentary here.
Anyway, a lot of the Korean/kyopo commenters obviously have problems that are unrelated to what is going on here. They bring with them the Korean/kyopo version of “black rage”, with passive-aggressive posturing in opposition to the evil white man.
Anyway, a lot of the redneck/expat commenters obviously have problems that are unrelated to what is going on here. They bring with them the redneck/expat version of “black rage”, with passive-aggressive posturing in opposition to the ‘culturally inferior’ Korean men.
wow Sakachi, your comment has an uncanny resemblence to my remark.
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J I N X
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ps, don’t you have your own blog?
swlee = stacked = jk?
never seen someone so obsessed with shakuhachi like some sort of sick stalker who can’t let go of his hatred/complex for another individual who seems to get under his nerves.
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