While browsing the international news board at Net Ease, I came across this post, an apparent cut and paste of a January 2008 Hong Kong newspaper story about a Seoul National University vice-president and team of history scholars holding a press conference to showcase three years of historical research proving that Chairman Mao was, in fact, ethnic Korean. Googling the story title plus the name of the newspaper brought pages and pages of links to related stories on Chinese forums, with netizens spitting bullets about this latest apparent Korean theft of a Chinese historical treasure *cough*. See others here, here, here, here, and here.
Searching for the original article, I googled the name of the paper and failed to find the website, but I did find this interesting link to a post by a sensible Chinese netizen who likewise found that the cited media source does not exist nor does SNU Vice-president named in the story.
The Chinese forum threads spawned by this urban myth were all dated from early June, another clue that cast doubt on the authenticity of the January 2008 press conference story. Looks like one mischievous Chinese netizen had too much time on his hands, and Chinese netizens as a whole are seriously lacking in critical thinking skills, something they have in common with their peers across the Yellow Sea. This lie has already traveled around the internet while the truth puts on its shoes in one forum. Trust me, my Chinese friends: nobody else on the planet would want to claim someone like Chairman Mao. You can keep him.
updated comment: One reason why this false story got so much play in Chinese forums is that Chinese netizens are cut and paste fiends who sometimes cite sources but rarely provide links to the original webpage. It took me about ten minutes to track down the origin of these Seoul torch relay photos that were widely circulated on the internet, apparently first posted by a netizen named skywing, who had a gravatar of a cartoon bunny dressed up like Hitler at the time of the controversy, but is now using a more globally acceptable image.
56 Comments
Re: “nobody else on the planet would want to claim someone like Chairman Mao. You can keep him.”
My thoughts exactly. He ranks up there as one of the most politically capable, yet ultimately incompetent leaders of all time.
Don’t you guys get it? To the Chinese who created this imagination, Mao was a Chinese hero.
Chinese also fabricated another “Korean theft” last winter. They claimed an SNU professor allegedly claimed Chinese writing was invented by a Korean. There was no such professor at SNU.
Other fabrications include “Koreans claim Confucius”, “Koreans register Feng Shui with UNESCO”, “Koreans claim they invented soy milk”, on and on and on…with at least one allegations of Koreans claiming this and that, coming out every two days.
Quite frankly, I’m sick of them. They even fabricate quake relief charity for heavens sakes!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related
Do the Chinese mention the printing press or the astrolabe on the back of a man note?
MN: He ranks up there as one of the most politically capable, yet ultimately incompetent leaders of all time.
I’ll have to disagree. Only democracies rank leaders on the basis of what they do for the populace. I think Mao Zedong was probably one of the most competent tyrants of all time. During his rule, no credible threat to his authority ever raised its ugly head. One after another, he had his opponents, both real and potential, summarily executed or tortured to death before they posed any threat to his rule. All this without the legitimacy of a Mandate of Heaven (combined with inherited rank) that helped previous Chinese emperors to hang on to power. On top of that, he has been raised to the rank of a demi-god in China*. I expect that he will be worshiped as a deity in decades to come - the first Communist saint in the history of China.
* If you want to experience the “you killed my father, I must kill you” look (what I call the mask of hate) away from a TV screen playing chop socky movies, just say to someone Chinese that Mao was a mass-murdering pedophile.
In official China, the last I checked, Mao was determined to have been 70% good and 30% bad. Pretty bizarre to come up with such numbers, (maybe it was 72 - 28 in the beginning but they rounded down?) but the Chinese are very big on numbering things in general. The four modernizations, the three this, the 5 that are all over Commie Party policy and pronouncements.
It’s hard to overestimate the amount of glory and cred Mao still has in the minds of the CHinese for unshackling the country from colonialism, Chiang Kai Shek, and the Japanese all in one era. The great leap forward, on the other hand, probably single-handledly earned him 20 of the 30% bad.
Shyeah, right, and Stalin was Georgian, I’m sure.
As long as Koreans do not try to claim Kung Pow Chicken we are still cool.
#2
Why do you think Chinese fabricate these “Korean theft”? Did you know what happend during the Asian Winter game in Jilin City when speedskater players raised the infamous placard at the medal cermony? Why would those young ladies do that? Last time I heard they did it out of love of their country…. Have you seen the historical Korean drama that of “Ju Mong” and others? Please ask Korean educators and those in the ministry of education before placing Chinese netizen as “sole” source of trouble. It takes two to clamp the hand and Chinese “angry young people” netizen are reacting to what Korean establishement has done.
Namuamitaba
#2
Why do you think Chinese fabricate these “Korean theft”? Did you know what happend during the Asian Winter game in Jilin City when speedskater players raised the infamous placard at the medal cermony? Why would those young ladies do that? Last time I heard they did it out of love of their country…. Have you seen the historical Korean drama that of “Ju Mong” and others? Please ask Korean educators and those in the ministry of education before placing Chinese netizen as “sole” source of trouble. It takes two to clamp the hand and Chinese “angry young people” netizen are reacting to what Korean establishement has done.
Namuamitaba
On a sidenote, I find it interesting that Mao’s two successful East Asian Communist partners (Ho Chi Minh and Kim Il-sung) both spoke Chinese. Mao certainly had a small group of Koreans in what became the 4th Route Army (the highest ranking being Mu Dong, Mao’s artillery commander), and that nucleus expanded to a corps of Koreans (+- 35,000) in the PLA between 1945 and 1949, when they were transferred lock, stock and barrel to the KPA, thereby giving the KPA a guerrilla warfare expertise it would have never had otherwise. Like Mao, both were experts in rewriting history to place themselves at the center, and all three have left behind party systems that deem it necessary to deify their founders. The Vietnamese go further, putting Ho Chi Minh’s picture in all Buddhist temples, and burning incense in front of it. I didn’t see that in China. Of course, the Norks have taken deification a bit further than that, as we witnessed in Korea during the Kim Jong-il rainy picture incident several years back. Back to the language issue, I believe it is Professor Suh’s book that comments on the possibility that KIS’s rise through the ranks of the Northeast Asia Anti-Japanese United Army was due to his being one of the very few Koreans who could speak Chinese. (His was acquired by several years attendance at a Chinese school in Manchuria)
#9, Koreans do claim Goguryo and Mt.Baiktu as Koreans. That has never been denied.
On the other hand, nobody in Korea thinks Mao is Korean, or that Koreans are stealing Chinese history and culture. That’s made up by the Chinese.
I think the whole thing is funny.
Koreans do crap like this all the time (mad cow anyone), so the Chinese can do it too.
One should interpret that to be more like thieves are usually reluctant to return what they stole unless shamed and many of today’s Chinese have little shame or impetus to consider their actions. Just to pull out one minor, fresh example, during the recent the farewell speech to the Olympic flame, in Tibet, after all the crap about keeping “politics separate from the Olympics”, the CCP secretary over the region just has to forget about the torch, the Olympic spirit, etc. and declare: “Tibet’s sky will never change and the red flag with five stars will forever flutter high above it, . . . We will certainly be able to totally smash the splittist schemes of the Dalai Lama clique.” Go Olympics, yea!
Yeah, sure, angry Chinese do not want to admit that their country gained territory through treaties that have been declared illegal, just like the Russians don’t want to return plundered artwork from Europe.
I have no sympathy towards claims that young Chinese are goaded by anyone other than their own bad government. These are the same people that just had to go after the small pet shop owner in Yongin City who unwittingly used a picture of a dog over Tienanmen Square as advertisement, resulting in a Korean official, in Beijing, being dressed down for this *serious* insult. Please . . .
cm,
Agree with Robert and you that no Korean will claim Mao as theirs..as far as culture is concern that depends on what you refer to..for example Mt. Baektu issue, Korean will not deny but never acknowledge the political reality where Korean government to this day still teaches their young as if Chinese “occupied” the land. It is one thing to romantice the old glorious history but another to be ignorants. Chinese netizens in my opininon made a mockery out of Korean Nationalism and of course themsevles, so for those Koreans really bothered by wave after wave of Korean stealing this and that, it must be guilty conscience.
Namuamitaba
Re: #4
“MN: He ranks up there as one of the most politically capable, yet ultimately incompetent leaders of all time.
I’ll have to disagree.”
(emphasis mine, just now)
Eh ? You’ll have to enlighten me a little more. I couldn’t catch what you disagreed with.
Reminds me of this post from a while back which didn’t get the ridicule it deserved:
http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/.....ent-161140
“Koreans claim pandas originated in Korea.”
“From a Chinese perspective I think this is an excess in democracy and freedom of speech.”
Comedy gold.
Questions on the new 10,000 won bill.
I heard from a Korean friend that the celestial utensil pictured on the back of the green 10 grand note (looks like a gyroscope)was actually a Chinese invention that was mistakenly claimed as Korean - the mistake was then noticed but not until after the currency had already been printed.
MYTH BUSTERS help me out on this one. True or not true?
This article describes the item, called the “Honcheoneui” which “has been designated [Korean] National Treasure No.230″
http://www.korea.net/news/news.....0070123008
There are posting from Chinese netizens below saying things like:
“It’s fine that you guys are updating your currency to fight counterfeit bills. However, isn’t one country’s own currency supposed to showcase images of items that reflect its own achievements? How is stealing the image of a chinese invention and placing it on your own currency proving any of that?? You guys are really shameless, has no class, and pathetic in your attempts at stealing other country’s cultures.”
So any true to this or not?? I mean apart from Koreans being “shameless” and lacking in “class”. I’ve already found answers to those questions.
Sonagi, since this post discusses how
“This lie has already traveled around the internet while the truth puts on its shoes in one forum.”
any comment on the below?
http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/.....ent-165238
‘So any true to this or not?? I mean apart from Koreans being “shameless” and lacking in “class”. I’ve already found answers to those questions.’
and i suppose you are an example of someone who isn’t shameless and lacking in class, right?
#20
always the presumptuous little pup aren’t you little pawi? mmong-mmong!!
why assume i had concluded shamelessness and lack of class? perhaps i had concluded the opposite … aren’t we insecure and chomping at the bit!
you always brighten my day with your fustian Korean verve! Like a sidewalk pizza on early morning in Shinchon - dynamic, sparkling!
I seriously doubt Mao was Korean, but he was extremely close with Kim il Sung. Without Kim Il Sung he would of never gained power.
Why would anybody want to lay claim to Mousie Dung?
(Apologies to Bernard Kliban…)
Jeffery Hodges
* * *
A Korean co-worker of mine once told me in all seriousness that China stole a number of the characters from Korea. I don’t think that any serious linguist would approve of this theory. There are some characters which are of Korean origin, such as 乭(돌), but for the most part, they are of Chinese origin and used pretty much the same way as they are used in China. There are, of course, characters with multiple pronunciations, as in Chinese. But for the most part, Korea adopted the characters as China uses them, but with a Sino-Korean pronunciation.
Japan uses the characters in a weird way. While they are limited to only words of Chinese origin in Korea, the Japanese also use them for native Japanese words in addition to Sino-Japanese words. There are a wide variety of readings possible for a given character. It all depends on context. Unlike Korean, which like Chinese operates on a one-syllable per character manner, it is possible in Japanese to have words of two or more syllables represented by a single character. Sometimes, publishers resort to using hirigana next to the characters in very small type to indicate exactly which pronunciation belongs where.
The Vietnamese invented a whole slew of characters which not even character literate Chinese could fathom. These have now become obsolete totally. I could very well see this happening here. My Korean co-workers have told me about how they studied and worked hard on mastering the characters as children, only to forget most of them later on. The media doesn’t really reinforce them, either. Newspapers, which used to use large numbers of characters now use them exceedingly sparingly. What you don’t use, you often lose.
Yes.
How do you know what the Korean government teaches young Koreans? I can tell you as a reader of Chinese internet content that a lot of what Chinese netizens claim that Koreans believe is false or a generalization from claims made by fringe “scholars.” As we see from the blog entry, one mischievous or possibly malicious netizen crafted a fake news story that has fooled many others.
Robert has not commented on this thread, so I’m guessing you are mistaking him as the author of this entry. There are several contributing bloggers at the Hole, and the author’s name appears at the bottom of the post.
#24, Though in one case, China apparently took Japanese made characters on modern Western scientific terms, such as elements. Can’t recall the specifics though.
#16, Yeah, don’t know how these start, it’s kinda weird; I had an Asian student back home ask if it was funny that Koreans believe they invented the Chinese script… other than the internet which he showed me some links of, I’ve never run into a student or teacher who believed or said the Chinese script was anything but Chinese (due to the nature of history with Hanja, the script came up a lot).
My friend’s very highly educated (PhD) and professional spouse from China, who should know better, frequently regales me with very far-fetched allegations of Korean claims on virtually every aspect of China’s history. China must have a cotage industry manufacturing manufactured Korean claims.
“Japan uses the characters in a weird way. While they are limited to only words of Chinese origin in Korea,”
That’s because Japan got Chinese characters from Korea. According to the Nihon Shoki, the Yamato Court got its first full set of Chinese characters from Baekje scholar Wan I.
Korean claims to typically Chinese origin items pop up from time to time since the end of the colonial period. They never got this popular in Korea until after China started claiming Koguryo, Ko Chosun and Parhae in early 2000’s.
It appears to me that Korean nationalists are trying to set-up buffer zones in terms of historical concepts. Their logic appears to be to get the Chinese too preoccupied with fighting allegations regarding hanja script, the origin of the Manchus, and yes, even the ethnic background of Mao, chase these red herrings while their attention is diverted from these proto-Korean/Manchurian kingdoms.
You didn’t really see Chinese exaggeration and/or outright fabrication of Korean claims until after that those girls lifted hand drawn papers claiming Mt. Baektu. That really touched a nerve with a lot of Chinese netizens.
It’s really the fault of both sides playing really childish games.
#25
How do I know? Please ask middle school childrens in Korea..I was educated there and believe me..I thought Mt. Baektu was rightfully Korean until I got the fucked out of there!!
I did notice the different writer, Sorry about that Robert.
#29
Fear the Chinese nationalist not the Korean nationalist because Chinese government has the mean and way to claim the territory. It will fight to keep Taiwan and Tibet.
Definantely touched the nerve…Average Koreans probably wondering what is the fucking deal…
On the update, interestingly enough, I was reading a week or so ago some studies on contrastive rhetoric and one looked at Chinese newspapers and said that there seemed to be no formal method for using quotations or attributing them if they were given as quotes and so on. It said they could find no pattern between newspapers or even within different sections or articles in the same paper. The study was done some time in the 1980s, I believe.
Well, Mt. Baektu is half (North) Korean.
That is factually correct but does not explain how written Japanese evolved to use single Chinese characters to represent multisyllabic words or parts of words while mixed script Korean maintained a one-to-one syllable correspondence. A common explanation given by Japanese for the use of kanji is to distinguish the large number of homophones as illustrated by the well-known “niwatori” ditty about chickens in the front yard and the backyard:
裏庭には二羽庭には二羽鶏がいる
Uraniwa niwa niwa niwa niwa niwa niwatori ga iru
and another homophonic phrase:
東欧を覆おう
Tooooooooo
Let’s cover Eastern Europe
Note that these aren’t just words but entire phrases albeit a semantic stretch.
@Siddhartha:
I asked you a translation question here if you would be so kind as to answer.
‘Fear the Chinese nationalist not the Korean nationalist because Chinese government has the mean and way to claim the territory. It will fight to keep Taiwan and Tibet.’ said the hwagyo as he huffed and puffed.
vietnam vs france
vietnam vs the us
north korea vs the us
hizbollah vs israel
rag heads vs soviets
iraq vs us
careful, chinaman. you try to take any part of korea, you gonna loose your ching chong.
now, how you like them apples?
‘my korean friend said…’
i get so tired of the expat telling us about what his korean friends say since 9 times out 10, the expat just makes it up to suit his argument. so what if you heard a korean say koreans invented chinese characters? i’ve had whites tell me that they’re inherently better than blacks. so what’s that say about you, excee?
‘THE KOREANS STOLE OUR CULTURE! THE KOREANS STOLE OUR CULTURE!’ whined the 90 pound chinaman as he sat dressed in western garb, eating western food, typing on western made computers, listening to ping pong pop copied from the west all the while dreaming of making it with a blonde whose legs were as long as he was tall.
Just like those Chinese students who hit, kicked, beat, and threw objects at non-violent protesters in Seoul during the torch relay. They arrested one guy and released him on his own recognizance. We haven’t heard any follow-up reports on whether or not he was prosecuted. From what I’ve seen here and here, the Chinese are sh*tting their pants in fear imagining a conflict with Korea. (the links may not work because, for some reason, Net Ease sometimes blocks such links)
#34
Hwagyo!! 화교 Korean Chinese? Are you? Are they still living in Korea… I like to hear them what they went through during the President Park days? I met some and most got their ass out so I cannot get an objective response to my burning question on anti-Chinese discrimination.
So you really belive Korea is a small country..soooo small that needs to be left alone? Can I tell that to Singaporean? Korea that small compare to what? do you mean Korean penis? I am little confused here..
Namuamitaba
나무아미타불 관세음보살
yeah, i’m sure bush wasn’t shitting his pants either, sonag. listen, don’t try to impose your wet dream onto me. china try to take any part of korea, there will be war. china will lose.
‘mission accoplished’
‘what can those rag heads do to us?’ russian about afghanis
‘beating the vietnamese will be a piece of cake.’ america right after dien bien phu
ps glad to see you have the time to read and post all over the net.
well, looking at current chinese behavior, don’t you think getting rid of the chinese was the best thing koreans ever did?
#38
Remain to be seen.
But can you get rid off your past to set you free but that very same past is also your glory. Korean need to learn from Japanese in that regard.
He thinks you are. And actually 화교 in English are Chinese-Korean. Korean-Chinese are 조선족. The rule is ethnicity-nationality. Pawi’s best friend is the strawman; his favorite gambit is to misparaphrase others’ arguments.
One of the perks of my job is a long summer holiday.
Correction! Last time I heard, 화교 was never given a Korean citizenship so I stand by my assertion.
Times have changed and so have Korean laws regarding naturalization and citizenship. Increasing numbers of ethnic Chinese, most of whom hold Taiwanese passports, are becoming naturalized Korean citizens. Several years ago, Korean law began to recognize citizenship through the mother, not just the father, so a child born in Korea needs only one Korean citizen parent to get citizenship.
#42
Really? I better check.
Namuamitaba
Why not ban pawi for the use of “ching chong” and “chinaman,” two slurs that I believe warrant instant banning? The first time I saw pawi use those words my blood boiled. I feel no different after seeing it for the third time. There’s no excuse for such language.
Anyway - cm - another false claim I’d add is one involving the popular Korean drama Dae Jang Geum aka Jewel in the Palace. Chinese netizens claim that the show claims acupuncture was invented by Koreans. I watched this drama and saw no such claim - and I would have most certainly noticed such a thing…
“Chinese netizens claim that the show claims acupuncture was invented by Koreans”
Maybe it was a bad subtitle… I’ve seen some of the Hong Kong DVDs of Korean movies (one of the only venues of obtaining Korean movie DVDs that works around this region) and their English subtitles are god awful.
I don’t think the acupuncture claim was a poor DVD translation. Please revisit the original post - a link to a completely fabricated newspaper story claiming that an SNU vice-president and team of scholars had a press conference to show evidence that Mao was ethnic Korean. Completely fabricated and fooled people because it bore a (fake) newspaper name and included names, dates, locations, and other details to make the story sound realistic.
I’ve seen other accusatory posts with claims and anecdotes that looked highly suspicious.
Who cares what they claim? Chinese like the Japs have no personal identity and rely solely on nation and ethnicity for self-esteem. Look at them, their men are like 120 pounds, lighter than my gf, they look absolutely ugly. If individuality ever came to China they’d all kill themselves.
This is never ending, especially with capitalism.
BTW in terms of language, Korean script and Korean words are derivations of Mongol and to an extent Manchurian. There are similarities in Hanja, since Hanja is
Chinese but simply put Chinese have no alphabet, Korean does.
Btw most Chinese inventions are prior to 1 AD, mostly because the Chinese have been conquered and ruled endlessly by foreign countries for the past 2000 years.
Chinese mercilessly and constantly deride Koreans as having no culture of their own, Koreans as nothing but a copy of China. Their feelings of superiority over Koreans comes from a thousand years of tributary relationship with the bangzi’s.
But the Chinese people should really look themselves in the mirror and see how much copying of Western culture and economy they’ve done. They wear Western clothes. Their modern architecture of gleaming new cities are imitations of Western cities. Most of their latest brand new consumer products are a pirated copies of Western countries. They want to be just like Westerners and drive cars on western style free ways. Not only that, they try to be like Westerners by learning to speak their language - English. How appropriate would it be if Westerners complain that Chinese are stealing Western culture and history?
Because, now a days, nobody seems to learn or copy anything from the China in Asia - even the Chinese themselves.
The Korean government needs to kick out all the China men. I’d rather have Americans in their place.
If you and Pawi continue to use racial slurs, then you can’t count me out of this thread. I don’t want to get lumped with you guys.
#38 The Koreans didn’t get rid of the Chinese. Thank the Japanese and Russians for that. (Russo-Japanese War??) Besides, all considering, why would anyone claim chairman Mao?? Even many Chinese **inwardly** disown him. If the south Korean people should claim anyone, it should be chairman Kim and not chairman Mao. At least chairman Kim is Korean. That would make more sense. Just throwing it out there…
백두산 is Korean after all. Even maps of Ming China had that mountain and other parts of Manchuria under 조선 control and remained so until the Japanese came through the Qing dynasty. South Koreans rightfully feel that the north just gave it to the Chinese after the 1953 ceasefire. I do have to side with the Koreans on this one. History is on their side this time.
yeah mao was indeed ethnic korean. and all koreans are chinese. it totally makes sense
Does it really matter if Mao was ethnic-Han? For the last 500 years, the majority of China’s emperors were Mongols or Manchus anyway. Besides, the father of modern China is Dr. Sun Yat-Sen, not Mao or Chiang.
During the ‘89 student protests, they sung “Nothing to by name” by Cu Jian (Choe Geon), father of Chinese Rock and Roll. He’s Korean and I don’t see anyone complaining about this ethnicity.
http://www.cuijian.com/
韩国人
谢谢你们帮中国作广告
全世界人民都明白你们只是中华文化的附属品
history is history you cant just change it and make every students
confuced.ok~~ understand korean?~
and does mao look like korean and Confucius,Xi Shi answer no!!
do korean have panda?no!!!!and why you korean fucking say panda from
korean,if panda from korean then why you don’t have panda?it is you all eat it
or chinese shiping all banbu and panda to thier mianland ha ha no
if you korean dont have enough information dont say it~~everything you say is joke!!!!!
ps:if all these important people in china is korean.then how about the people in china mianland it is they are korean too?
if you guys say “yes” think what would people in over world say
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[...] stories that Koreans are claiming as their own Confucius, Xi Shi, Mao (see Sonagi’s post here) and even panda bears being reported as established fact, anti-Korean sentiment is on the [...]