Ye Olde Chosun reports that Korean English teachers are feeling stressed out because students are taking them to task for their poor pronunciation.
In one Gyeonggi-do high school, for instance, school parents demanded that a 50-year-old male English teacher teaching three senior English classes be replaced with a young female teacher, citing the teachers poor pronunciation. The teacher was given freshmen and sophmore classes instead.
According to the Chosun, due to the English craze gripping Korea, students and parents are concerned more about how well the teachers can converse in English than about the quality of class. And with many students having studied abroad or studied English from kindergarten, teachers sometimes find themselves the target of humiliation from their own students.
Older teachers, in particular, are worried, with some even deciding to switch to other subjects. Others are flocking to English courses. One course for English teachers run by the Seoul Office of Education, for instance, got 600 applicants in the first semester this year. In the first semester last year, it got 35. Some even go to hagwon to boost their conversational ability, but this can be embarassing, since English teachers studying English at hagwon can get ribbed by their classmates.
Another stressful element is the ability differences in students. Some teachers wonder how they are to teach when students exhibit such wide differences in language ability. Then there are the districts where early English education is almost nonexistent, and teachers worry how students will fare if teachers begint teaching in English, as they are supposed to do from 2010.
The government plan to do away with the English section on the Korean university entrance exam also worries teachers. Should the government do away with the English section and replace it with a pass-fail certification test, higher-level students may simply take the test in their first year and go on cruise control for the rest of high school.
43 Comments
“Some even go to hagwon to boost their conversational ability…”
That’s actually a really good move, since being surrounded by young-learners all day doesn’t help one’s skill at all.
“…students may simply take the test in their first year and go on cruise control for the rest of high school.”
Remember kids: Cruise-control is for college, not high school.
“…students may simply take the test in their first year and go on cruise control for the rest of high school.”
Remember kids: Cruise-control is for college, not high school.
Does anyone know if the disapproved of teachers would actually be let go? Or would the union just get them a job someplace else?
“And with many students having studied abroad or studied English from kindergarten, teachers sometimes find themselves the target of humiliation from their own students.”
Of course they do, and rightly so. This is a positive thing in my eyes. If a chemistry teacher didn’t know about the periodic table, he would get mocked. If a math teacher couldn’t do trigonometry, he’d get mocked. How is it more acceptable for an English teacher to speak poor English? Regardless of how good his grammar, writing skills, etc. may be, pronunciation is a key part of language.
“Of course they do, and rightly so. This is a positive thing in my eyes. If a chemistry teacher didn’t know about the periodic table, he would get mocked. If a math teacher couldn’t do trigonometry, he’d get mocked. How is it more acceptable for an English teacher to speak poor English? Regardless of how good his grammar, writing skills, etc. may be, pronunciation is a key part of language.”
In your opinion, what constitutes good pronunciation? Beyond intelligibility and comprehensibility, is there a particular standard that you are aware of? Assuming the teacher in question is a university graduate - which, I think, we can safely do - he or she should be able to speak and teach an academic variety of the language. Also, are you convinced that pronunciation is the only possible reason for an older male teacher finding himself replaced by a younger female teacher?
What do you think the measure of good English pronunciation is in Korea? Somebody speaking like any number of educated human beings from any English speaking country, or somebody talking in a deliberately clear North American network accent like a voice actor from EBS or one of those CDs that accompany English texts?
Shouldn’t students be prepared to understand and communicate with English speakers possessing a variety of pronunciation habits/accents? The people they can expect to use English with - either here or abroad - are unlikely to sound like a CNN anchor.
While a parent wanting a great education for their child is always a good thing, I have found that sometimes parents will ask things of teachers for reasons I’m not sure of. I once had a parent (back when I was a kindy teacher) ask me not to use the word “silly” when describing her child. In the dictionary the word silly is translated to “babo” or “orisoken” while we usually use it home to men overly playful or clownish in class and not focused. Mom got angry and sent me a big letter about how her child is “not stupid.” I think it’s good if a parent has a high standard for their child, but I’ve found frequently here that parents make foolish suggestions in the name of improving education. I just found it odd that this mother, who could barely speak any English at all, was trying to correct me on my choice of words.
Also, if you’re a teacher and you’re getting down on being ribbed on my students in your hagwon, you’re a big fat fuckin’ pussy.
You’re also assuming that a college grad is able to speak English. Especially the college grads from the 70s. That’s a lot to assume.
#4, I don’t have a problem at all with those teachers being transferred somewhere else, like say to teaching math or another subject.
In Canada, to teach French at a public school, you have to demonstrate a certain level of proficiency with the language along with your teaching certification. Korean schools will toss anyone with a teaching certificate into the English classroom, at least from what I saw
“home to men” means “at home to mean”
some english teacher me be also, i’m drunk right now.
Well, I really question why that article was written because all teachers must do some upgrading.
What the Chosun fails to mention are the Korean ipsi hagwon English teachers who sometimes make a killing teaching kids how to ace the English section of the AAT(Academic Aptitude Test). Which I might add has nothing to do with pronunciation.
I’ve had several Korean English teachers take lessons with me, but only ones who already had a near-native ability. Anyway, they certainly didn’t get any ribbing for it.
The real irony is when students correct MY pronunciation because of something their Korean teachers taught them.
There are plenty of words that are pronounced differently depending on where in the world the teacher is from. Since I get taken to task about my Canadian accent from Americans (no doot aboot it), when I encounter such words, I try to show my students the differences in pronunciation when it comes to vowel sounds. I also try to show different spellings, since Americans are pretty much the only native English speakers who spell colour without the “u” Nothing against my brothers to the south, but most of us teachers hail from Commonwealth countries and it takes some getting use-to to spell and think in Americanisms.
A Korean’s pronunciation problems usually stem more so from consonant sounds such as replacing “z” with “j”. Can you imagine what would happen if a Korean was visiting the Middle East and asked where the zoo was? Not to mention the tendency to pronounce the silent “e” at the end of every word that it appears and even quite a few words where it doesn’t, like “Bush”. The biggest hit in class is when I explain the difference between “crab” and “crap”. That’s always good for a few laughs.
It goes both ways of course. My Korean pronunciation is terrible. However, Koreans are used to hearing Korean spoken by other Koreans, which makes it difficult for them to understand my bastardized Korean, where as I’m used to hearing English spoken by all sorts of ethnicities where English is not the first language. So, even if the pronunciation is bad, I can usually figure out what is being said.
Unfortunately for Koreans, they do not have the wealth of experience I’ve had when it comes to hearing English with different accents, and maybe what students really need is more exposure to more English speakers who are not American or Canadian.
The biggest offender (IMHO) in all this rigmarole, is Konglish. If the powers-that-be would stop writing English in Han-gul characters that sound nothing like the actual English it’s trying to simulate, then students of all ages would go a lot further in their quest for perfect pronunciation.
#6
“In your opinion, what constitutes good pronunciation?”
An excellent question, which would garner a vast range of responses. I base my opinion on personal experience as a second language learner. I found when learning French that both the objective comprehensibility and others’ subjective opinions of my language skills improved when I subconsciously picked up the accent of the town I lived in when in France.
Thus, I believe ‘good pronunciation in English’ is at least a close approximation of the pronunciation of a native English speaker, whether they be American, British, Australian or any other nationality you care to mention.
“Also, are you convinced that pronunciation is the only possible reason for an older male teacher finding himself replaced by a younger female teacher?”
I know what you’re saying, and in the West that would be much more likely. In Korea however, I would say that the older male would be more likely to have enough Confucian/political clout to stop a change from happening if that were the reason.
“Shouldn’t students be prepared to understand and communicate with English speakers possessing a variety of pronunciation habits/accents?”
Of course I agree with you that students should be exposed to native English of many different varieties. I particularly like that my hagwon employs teachers from the US, Canada, UK, Ireland, Australia and New Zealand. I’m British but I never get any complaints that the students don’t understand my accent, because they are used to hearing a vast range of accents.
“most of us teachers hail from Commonwealth countries ”
Not true, the largest single group of E-2 visa holders in S. Korea are Americans. And Ireland and S. Africa aren’t in the Commonwealth anymore.
bigrich, 1) there are “native speakers” of Indian English (Hinglish), Malay English and Singapore English (Singlish), and of many other non-Inner Circle varieties; 2) there are now more “non-native” than “native” users of English in the world. I suggest you consider reconsidering your native speaker model, at least with regards to international languages like English and French.
(And Ireland) and S. Africa aren’t in the Commonwealth anymore.
That may have been true if you typed that between the years of 1971 and 1994. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B.....th#Members
I would imagine a lot of these teachers are now middle-aged, and were encouraged to enter the field when the country was opening to the world and was desparate for anyone who could teach English. Who could’ve known then that numbers of youth would be sent abroad for extended stays. Truly these teachers are in an unenviable position.
oops, 1961.
Admittedly, Koreans have the worst English pronunciation and grammer in the world. But great international figures, Henry Kissinger and Albert Einstein have been respected as great communicators regardless of a foreign accent. The real issue is COMMUNICATION which Koreans are exceedingly poor at, even in Korean.
So the problem with Korean education in a nutshell is that it is based on rote learning, which ensures that the content will be forgotten, or worse, mistaught, misunderstood and misremembered. Undue emphasis on discrete takses like grammar and pronunciation prevents English from being used for what it is - a communication tool.
Non-Koreans are not jingoistic about English. They don’t care whether you speak with an accent or mess up the grammar. But they laugh at Koreans for blushing and giggling and making a quick escape whenever English is spoken to them. They laugh at Koreans for their pretentions of speaking English when in fact, they cannot construct a single sentence. They laugh at English spoken through a filter of Korean logic which, frankly, is not yet up to international standards.
The real issue IS NOT ENGLISH EDUCATION, it’s the Korean education system, driven by Korean cultural backwardness.
In my observation, the Korean thought process is as unrigorous as it was 30 years ago. People still believe in myths over facts. “Fan death”, “stamina foods”, unproven Eastern medicine practices, oh…and did you know that Koreans have a gene that makes them susceptible to believing internet rumors without even checking them out first?
#21 Right on. “There are communication problems that have nothing to do with language,” as a friend of mine used to put it.
These fossils are a blessing for most of the native teachers here. If it wasn’t for them, there would be a lot less need for us. Then again there is a huge gap between what is EFL education and what the edutainment market really wants. These are two different concepts in Korea (sound EFL education versus edutainment). The smart student or consumer of education know this. At least Itaewon and Hongdae take and recycle most of this windfall from the edutainment side.
One of the things my wife and I noticed when we moved back to Seoul for a while was how Koreans incessently talk. At the same time, the focus is not on content, which is left amorphous and inconclusive. The focus is on form rather than content, and the connotation rather than the denotation. Because of this, no statement is ever taken at face value. There is always a hidden connotation, and a hidden agenda.
The first thing Korean people do in a conversation is to attempt to size you up and establish your societal level, so as to put you in your place beneath them as much as is possible.
Korean is highly nuanced, but despite the nuances, highly imprecise from a Western, logical perspective. This is because it is intended to convey feelings - shared feelings, that is and to cement a bond between the speakers.
Debate certainly falls outside this cultural experience. Instead, opposition may only be raised among a large group of like-minded people where no dissent is likely to arise.
Korean dialog is INCLUSIVE, not EXCLUSIVE.
This can be positive as a means of bonding like-minded people. The negative side is that 2 opposite minded people cannot have a civil, reasonable discussion or debate.
#17
“bigrich, 1) there are “native speakers” of Indian English (Hinglish), Malay English and Singapore English (Singlish), and of many other non-Inner Circle varieties; 2) there are now more “non-native” than “native” users of English in the world. I suggest you consider reconsidering your native speaker model, at least with regards to international languages like English and French.”
Yes, there are a vast number of people who speak those and many other variations on English as a native language. As a linguist I know not to make value judgments about languages, but if I look at this in a Korean context, I come to the following conclusion.
Koreans learn English for 2 reasons:
1. To communicate with other people who speak English. Regardless of whether these people are native or non-native speakers, a native-speaker level of pronunciation is a great aid in achieving that. A person with the ‘CNN anchor’ pronunciation that globalvillageidiot mentioned will be understood by English speakers in India, Singapore, Brazil, or wherever else English is spoken. The same cannot be said of a Hinglish speaker in Peru, or a Singlish speaker in Gabon.
2. To use English as a ‘weapon’ to get a promotion at work, in which case it doesn’t matter one iota which version of English they learn, because it is never likely to be used communicatively.
That’s quite a sweeping assertion with a touch of irony given the misspelling of grammar.
Most of the speakers of these “dialects” are not native speakers of English anyway. Singlish is not English, it’s Chinese grammar hiding behind mostly English words, with a smattering of Malay and Hokkien. Same as the “English” — I feel generous today — spoken by current hosts, Hong Kong, is Cantonese grammar + English words.
Well-educated people in both cities speak either British English or Vancouver English, mostly — but it is not a reflection on the quality and “nativeness” of English there.
I suggest that you go visit more countries around the planet. While the situation is not exactly rosy in Korea, I can assure you that I have met many Chinese people whose pronunciation required lots of brain cycles to decode — including south of Shenzhen — not to mention trying to keep up with the melodic but dumbfounding tones of Thai when applied to English.
Then again, there’s the French — present company excluded…
#9
Although that may be the case with Elementary schools, it certainly isn’t with Junior High and Senior High Schools. In which a degree in English Language Education is required.
Well, apparently a degree in English Language Education isn’t a guarantee of proficiency either, if the article is to be believed.
I’ve met professors in 외대 and 서울대 who couldn’t speak the language they were teaching. Literally. Couldn’t. Speak. It. These guys wrote books, taught literature and grammar and whatnot, but couldn’t have saved their lives if I had pointed a gun and asked them to make a 20-word sentence or get shot. I even saw one guy joke about his inability in front of students. These guys were from “the old days” — an excuse often used to sweep under the rug all the fallacies and shortcuts they and their cronies took 20 or 30 years ago.
My first English teacher, in grammar school, was a very good teacher, which to this day I remember very fondly. He not only taught me the rudiments of English, but, silly old man, made me love that language. I saw him again when I was in the English department, in college. He was taking an exam to qualify for some free courses that would have given him access to a better job, or at least better pay. The examiner was one of my profs, and a wicked asshole — who was also a very fluent speaker of English, and a very demanding professor. He failed my grammar school teacher, very brutally so. I went to my prof, and tried to appeal for my old teacher, explaining that if I could be counted as one of the passable students in his class — and there he grunted — it was because of that low-level grammar school teacher. To which my prof answered: “He may be a good teacher. But I was not testing his educational methods. Rather, I was testing his level of English. And his English sucks. Sorry, son.” My point here, if there’s one, is that sometimes people with limited skills can teach well. But they shouldn’t be expected to be considered as God-like figures. And those who try to improve themselves should be commended, not derided…
#28 “Koreans learn English for 2 reasons:”
At least in places where I have worked with Koreans, one of the main reasons they use English is to translate books, documents, contracts, etc. related to their job or their profession. They only want to absorb this information and understand the meaning accurately and do not need to talk to anyone in Englilsh.
I’ve noticed that generally older Koreans, even those that can hardly put two words together in English, are often much better at it than younger ones, who can usually communicate much better in spoken English. Of course this could be because the older ones have had more practice, but it might reflect the change in emphasis from written to spoken English in Korean education. Whether or not this is good or bad depends upon how people want to use English.
Pretty sad stuff. They should be respected as human beings and then teachers instead of being dissed.
Koreans can no longer say it only happens in the West. I’m sure they’ll blame everyone, but themselves for it. American culture did this.
Glad I never taught kids in schools here. I’m not qualified anyway, what with actually having an education degree and all. Yup, hagwon teachers aren’t real teachers.
The probable reason why the old bloke was replaced by a younger female was that a lot of the younger teachers here are very good at speaking English. The younger teachers (especially female) nowadays tend to be excellent at speaking English, this is the situation in many schools in Seoul in other areas of Korea it might be different.
Many young teachers have studied abroad for several years, in fact most of my Korean female colleagues have studied either in the US, Australia, Canada or Britain for several years. The ‘dinosaur’ guys, as I affectionately refer to them conduct 90% of the class in Korean. I have a colleague who teaches business English but can barely speak it at all.
I teach in 3 different high schools and the difference in speaking ability between the old teachers and young teachers is incredible. Strangely I have no young Korean male colleagues. The only thing the old guys seem to excel at is disciplining rowdy students with sticks! The younger teachers aren’t so good at that.
Accent is not a really big issue, clarity is. Koreans tend to have a big problem with speaking clearly in English. Many have a tendency to add syllables to soft ‘j’ or ‘g’ endings, have problems with ‘BPV’ sounds and other issues that affect the clarity of their speech.
Things are improving here, but at a snail’s pace.
I feel awkward when I have to tutor English teachers that have been teaching English for years… it should be embarrassing when you go to the same hogwon as your students (but at least those are the ones trying to improve..I guess).
“Can you imagine what would happen if a Korean was visiting the Middle East and asked where the zoo was?”
I’m still laughing !
Yep: with a bad pronunciation, how can we differentiate fan, van, pan and ban, when a korean is talking??? Need a good work on it.
Oh poop, who wrote the blog “Teacher, ’saving face’ is pronounced with an F not a P” or something like that… damn memory.
I often stumble on spelling myself, never could be arsed to memorize the ‘I before E’ rule properly so I usually write words down and see if it just ‘looks right.’ Snickers of “you are Englishee teacha?” from the students…
Apparently in Korea, mistakes are for the weak and teachers and other role models simply get disregarded if they make mistakes.
I find the more ‘mistakes’ I make in class, the more students I end up punishing…
Can you imagine what would happen if a Korean was visiting the Middle East and asked where the zoo was?
The singular “zoo” is probably accurate for most Middle Eastern neighborhoods. The rest of the “zoos” have left for Israel.
@38
I find that whole situation hilarious. One possible reason why many Korean students suck so bad is their fear of making mistakes. They are simply unwilling to try.
(yeah yeah…there are reasons behind those fears but that is another issue)
S.Africa is back in the Commonwealth? Well, blow me down!
#21 is a good example of the quality of discourse coming from native English speakers, including English, um, teachers. #27, right on. Which brings up this issue: If there were tests for native English teachers in Korea like there are for incoming English teachers who are Korean, how many native speakers would actually pass?
My question is: how well did the parents speak English? I suppose well enough to make an assumption of the instructor’s abilities? Hmm.. I also have to agree with #21 to a point. Koreans have the hardest time communicating amongst themselves in Korean. They expect to learn enough English by attending the hagwon a few times a week and being “immersed” in the English language “culture” an hour a day with their foreign instructor to attend Harvard or something? Something isn’t right with that… #27…Korea was ranked near the bottom of the proverbial barrel of the worst English speakers in the world…barely topping out the Japanese.