Korea Herald editor Matt Lamers, who as we posted earlier had a bit of a rough experience last week when he was slashed by a broken beer bottle by unknown assailants, has posted what took place that night at Dave’s ESL Cafe.
He’s also decided to take the matter to the police, which I think is a good call, although how helpful they can be several days after the fact, I don’t know.
I think the following might be worth remembering, too, especially for the Designated Victim™ crowd:
Some personal thoughts: Although it was completely unprovoked, blatant racism, it was an isolated incident. I know some will disagree with me on this point, but to each his own. Korea is not a racist country, at least compared to Canada (where I’m from). What happened to me could have happened to anyone, in any country, so there is no reason to get ourselves worked up about it. I am not angry. I do not I hold “Korea” responsible. I do not hold any grudges (except for the attackers).
It may or may not have been related to the beef protests. But who knows?
Be careful, play safe, and if you find yourself in a situation like I was, the most important thing to protect is your health. And report it to the police (when you feel it is safe for you to do so). Consider reporting it to the media.
We all have our different priorities. Mine is my and my family’s health and safety.
Let’s keep the discourse respectable. Let’s not generalize when it’s unnecessary. Cynicism blocks progress.
Read the rest on your own.
172 Comments
Random assholes in a “high risk” area. Extrapolation would be dumb.
I find it interesting to say that Canada is more racist than Korea.
I’d like to see someone compare and contrast the two countries.
I have some questions…
How are biracial people treated in Canada?
Do Canadian schools teach kids that their blood is “pure” like they do in Korea?
Are hate crimes or suspected hate crimes tolerated in Canada? Would a racially motivated stabbing, like that mentioned above, even be investigated in Canada?
Does the Canadian media target certain minorities in their newspapers and news programs and racebait those groups? I know SBS is famous here for it.
Would a cartoon of three men belonging to a minority group chasing a “white” woman be published in a Canadian national newspaper?
What does the Canadian Constitution say about race?
What does the Korean constitution say about race?
If a Korean were stabbed in Canada and the attack was racially motivated, what would have or could have been done about it? Would anything have been done about it?
How many refugees does Canada accept compared to Korea? Anyone know?
What is the difference (social, political etc…) between the two countries in regards to the quality of life for immigrants and minority groups?
Is Canada more open to FDI than Korea?
Any Canucks around to answer my questions?
#2 Great post.
I can only imagine that you know the answer to most, if not all, of the questions you pose.
Perhaps it can give some of the apologists something to think about.
Jesus…no wonder the Herald sucks balls. It is just as ridiculously stupid to say Korea is not a racist country as it would be to say Korea is a racist country. Both absolutes are worthless in terms of information value.
Racism exists is Korea, as it does in Canada, and the US, and every other goddamn country on earth. There are no exceptions, only degrees. No country is racist, just as no country is not racist. There are degrees of racism, just as there are degrees of social acceptance of racism, and degrees of racism in the media (both overt and subtle), degrees of legal protection against racism, and degrees of societal progress in combatting racism.
The only relevant discussion is about the degree to which racism exists, and how society accepts/responds to/deals with/portrays it. Stating that Korea is/is not a racist country is just plain fucking dumb.
I thank Matt for filling in us and am glad he’s making a strong recovery. It’s good to see that he’s not holding any grudges and not holding the whole country accountable for a random attack.
I respect his opinion however differ in his belief that Canada {insert any other Western nation} is more racist than Korea. Of course, a lot of this talk about racism can be brought to semantics and personal opinion. However, the fact that he felt uncomfortable reporting this incident to the Police for fear of inaction and/or unwanted prosecution and the points #2 mentioned, along with other issues, lead me to come to a different conclusion …
2001: Page 5 shows refugee and asylum seeker stats for most OECD countries. Why Japan and Korea are not among those listed I cannot say.
http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/61/26/1875391.xls
2003: Japan is listed, and is at the bottom. Korea still not listed.
http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/40/26/2492149.xls
Leave Matt alone! Can’t you see he’s forgiving Korea!
Don’t you ever watch the Oprah Winfrey show?
He’s forgiving his attackers!
Korea is not racist. Leave Matt alone!
Here you go:
The same article mentions 12,000 Nork asylum seekers. Maybe the SK gov’t doesn’t consider them refugees.
http://joongangdaily.joins.com.....id=2886958
Racism is in Korea. You cannot deny that. Just as a poster above pointed out that it is existent in every country. What is important is how a country combats racism. This is where Korea is lacking I believe. I don’t think there is a large and concerted effort in Korea to stop racism.
Stop racism? You must be joking. The pure-blood curriculum positively inculcates racism.
#8 spot on!
Victimhood is not the issue:
This is from the original Gypsy Scholar thing:
“Why didn’t you report it?” I asked.
“I’ve written enough articles about police inaction when foreigners are attacked that I knew nothing would be done,” he explained.
There is the racism.
You can also read the report of Bart Schaneman, the man with Matt at the time of the attack.
Jeffery Hodges
* * *
Outstanding questions, number two. I for one know how easy it is to get hot-headed when these issues arise for us, but you seem to have outlined the core of our grievances here in a logical and cool manner.
Best wishes to him for a speedy recovery. Impressive that he stays so positive at such a difficult time.
When I reported to the police that my parked car (just outside my house) was hit, they suggested that I move to a better neighborhood. An eye witness said the man was drunk when he got out of the car briefly but didn’t note the license plate.
B. Carr @ #9 makes a strong point.
Well, if you consider that a country is a legal construct, basically a collection of laws that define all the aspects of a country; and if you consider that Korea’s laws discriminate against people based on race, not nationality; then, you must admit that Korea is a racist country. Made by racist people, on racist principles, for the propagation of racism.
Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.
To even discuss whether or not Koreans are racist, vis-a-vis other ethnic groups, is a profound waste of time. Korean kids with slightly curly hair can submit a special document to their teachers proving their ethnic purity, for Pete’s sake.
Are you suggesting that Korean citizens of non-Korean ethnicity are legally discriminated against? Or are you simply referring to laws pertaining to overseas Koreans?
Do you have a link to a news story or law documenting this?
Korea has admitted ONE refugee.
ONE.
Well, I don’t know for certain, but I’ve heard that Korean citizens of non-Korean ethnicity, such as non-Koreans who have married Koreans, can only vote in local elections and can’t vote in national elections. That’s part of what I was referring to. Also, the extreme difficulty (or impossibility?) that it takes for those without Korean ancestry to get Korean citizenship.
Marmot:
I think they were referring to this:
http://koreabeat.com/?p=870
I think you’ve heard wrong. Citizens — regardless of their ethnicity — can vote in national elections. In fact, they can even run for office, as one ethnic Filipina did in the last general election.
http://news.mk.co.kr/outside/v.....;no=207842
http://www.imaeil.com/sub_news.....38;yy=2008
http://news.naver.com/main/rea.....0002041967
Is it that difficult? In fact, I’ve heard — from a Briton who did it — that’s it’s quite easy. I’d imagine this is the case for Westerners, but I haven’t talked to enough naturalized Westerners to know for certain. Foreign bridges newly arrived in Korea have difficulty (they had to wait 2 years, although this, I believe, is changing), and I’m sure 3D laborers have a tough time, though. Whether that’s “racist” or simply smart planning to avoid encouraging mass immigration from the Third World, I don’t know.
mbk — actually, I knew what he was referring to, but thanks anyway. Just wanted to get confirmation from him before I told him he was full of shit.
I hope Matt recovers, and suppose that he is being gracious with his comments about Korea as much as he is being ungracious with his comments about Canada.
This is more of an issue of Korean police being utterly useless more than racism. The only times I’ve ever run into the Korean police they’ve always been polite, friendly, considerate and absolutely useless (which can often be a good thing compared to the power-tripping asshole cops you usually get in the states).
‘the koreans are more racist than westerners!’ declared the expat with his korean girlfriend by his side.
‘well, yes, i do take all their women but koreans are still racist.’ demured the lil fella
‘well, no, i don’t have a difficult time finding a job here. that’s cuz i’m white which is proof korea is racist.’ admitted excee
‘well, no, i guess i’m not treated the same as a person from thailand. that’s part of their racism.’ stated the exspat with triumph in his eyes
‘well, yes, i guess i do whine a bit, but i’m special.’ responded excee
“Korea is not a racist country, at least compared to Canada (where I’m from).”
This statement just proves that Canadians do take a lot of drugs.
Pawi, you really are a total prat.
Matt, get better soon. I’m glad your injuries seem nowhere as serious as they easily could have been.
There are racist morons everywhere, as others have said.
“It is just as ridiculously stupid to say Korea is not a racist country as it would be to say Korea is a racist country. Both absolutes are worthless in terms of information value.”
The second absolute is pretty full of useful information.
Yes, but will this be reported in any of the dailies here? After all, we’ve seen far less violent assaults on Koreans by non-Koreans reported in the papers. Had the situation been reversed, and a non-Korean threatened to kill a Korean reporter and then slashed him with a broken beer bottle, I doubt that the story would remain as mere blog fodder. Add the victim’s supposition of it having been a racially-motivated attack, and the story practically writes itself.
Now that a police report’s been filed, what’s slowing them up?
“Korea’s laws discriminate against people based on race, not nationality;”
Wrong. People of same race as Korans may also run into harder times than Whites. Who do you think Koreans look down on more? Whites or ethnic Koreans from China/ or people from South East Asia?
The concept of “race” does not exist in Korean construct. It’s either “South Korean” or “non-Korean” - ‘us’ against ‘them’.
As for becoming a Korean citizen, it’s not as difficult or impossible as many make it out to be.
It will require five years of residence, proficiency in the Korean language, and understanding of Korean culture and history. Foreigners must pass an interview that tests their language proficiency as well as a written test on culture, history, and customs.
In other words, you have to prove that you can speak the language, and that you understand Korean history. I think this is an entirely fair expectation if you want to be a citizen. Canada and the US are anomolies. They hand out citizenship like candies to undeserved with predictable results.
The poster is half-right. Several months ago, the Korea Beat translated a story about Korean students with naturally curly or brown hair being required to carry “confirmation of natural hair” cards to show teachers and staff and avoid punishment for violating rules against coloring or perming hair.
#32, Interesting post, and I don’t think many people would realize that Korean-to-Korean discrimination, which I agree readily happens.
I think with Canada and the USA though, they’re easier with language knowing that there is enough ethnic support for someone from from any place in the world, assuming they (and usually do) go to the right city. Most countries offer some pigeon English experience due it’s prominence in business (among others) as well.
# 21 chiamattt
“Korea has admitted ONE refugee.
ONE.”
That figure does not include English teachers and GIs who stayed behind with their juicy girls.
Dear Mr. Koehler:
I really love your blog.
As a fellow Long Islander (north shore, Suffolk) I’m proud to say I usually find your commentary on point and accurate. I check here nearly everyday.
But I was saddened by your recent posts about racism here.
(sorry, I don’t know how to make the nice quote boxes I saw on your post)
“Are you suggesting that Korean citizens of non-Korean ethnicity are legally discriminated against? Or are you simply referring to laws pertaining to overseas Koreans?”
I think that’s a little simplistic.
Perhaps you are right, it is ‘easy’ to obtain citizenship here. As far as I know, you mean for people who marry Koreans. For those who don’t… it’s a whole other story. Almost impossible, from what I understand.
Regardless, you missed the point. He didn’t say Korea discriminated against non-Korean citizens, but rather, non-Koreans.
Practically speaking, do you know how many (non-Han) people have obtained citizenship in this country WITHOUT marrying a Korean? I would imagine that number is VERY small.
And that’s true. Regardless of how easy it is for foreign, non-Han people to obtain citizenship, you can’t dispute that there is another, streamlined process for gyopos. Basically, you have 2 systems in this country: one for people with Korean blood and another for those without. That is racism.
That’s just talking about citizenship.
My gyopo neighbor can come here on an F visa, and teach, unfettered by immigration. He might not know a word of Korean, or anything about the culture. But his skin is the right color. Me, I have to get an E-2. And even though our qualifications are the same, I risk deportation, and have to take AIDS and drug tests, etc. Again, racism.
Both examples are, in my opinion, examples of institutionalized racism in the legal system. Admittedly, I know a LOT less about Korean law than you. So my analysis might be flawed. But in my understanding, there are elements of racism in the Korean legal system.
You didn’t mention, and I won’t go into here, the elements of societal racism (i.e. there is no social norm to accept people of different ethnic stock as Korean, despite their bona fides with respect to language and culture) that I believe actually affects foreigners more than legal racism.
Ironically, your kyopo neighbor will find a world of social and professional discrimination awaiting him, after passing through the discrimination-free legal and immigration processes.
I’m tired of hearing from Koreans about American racism. Not only is racism NOT INSTITUTIONALIZED in the US but to the contrary anti-racist measures are institutionalised, including civil rights law.
The next president of the US will be of mixed race. Could that happen in Korea? Ever?
The reason race baiting (accusing people of racism) is considered socially objectionable is that Americans abhore racism and are rightly proud of its history of achievements in the area of civil rights, which has set a global standard.
And whatever remnents of racism still exist are NOT directed at Asians. It’s basically a black white dynamic in the US. Koreans are NOT disliked for racial reasons. To the extent they are disliked, they have brought it upon themselves through their own behaviors.
I’m confused! Matt says there is no collective racism in Korea.
Others say there is! What a confusing world this is!
Matt, you currently have the sanctity of victimhood. Set them all straight!
Was your attack truly an unlucky chance encounter with Korean rednecks?
Where did you find your spiritual strength to forgive so easily?
Watching Oprah? New Age? Baptist? Matt, you are the strength beneath my wings.
If Korea was racist would the state pay a white guy in a Hanbok to sit on his ass all day promoting Korea?
You guys need to get a grip. Your home country may be predominantly white and you may not be entitled to the same privileges here your whiteness gets you there, but that does not make here racist. If you think here is racist and your own country is not, then , go on, think that way. paranoid freaks. always an excuse.
An imitation of RJK:
“Nothing to see here, move along.”
As though countless Korean men haven’t been compelled to clear their throats and spit, immediately upon seeing him.
“If Korea was racist would the state pay a white guy in a Hanbok to sit on his ass all day promoting Korea?”
Ah, so is that what’s behind the Marmot’s frantic and defenses of Korea lately?
swlee: “You guys need to get a grip. Your home country may be predominantly white and you may not be entitled to the same privileges here your whiteness gets you there, but that does not make here racist. If you think here is racist and your own country is not, then , go on, think that way. paranoid freaks. always an excuse.”
Not an excuse, a mere fact. The US is a multi-ethnic society. While racism is institutionalized in Korean law as well as Korean society, neither of these things is true of the US.
As for “privileges of whiteness” in the US, to the contrary, minorities are given every advantage. All companies have diversity programs in place in compliance with Federal anti discrimination programs such as Affirmative Action (no such programs exist in Korea):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_Action
As for demographics, the US is a racially and ethnically diverse society in which tolerence is not only the law, but the fact. Population growth is fastest among minorities, and according to the United States Census Bureau’s estimation for 2005, 45% of American children under the age of 5 are minorities. In 2006, the nation’s minority population reached 100.7 million.
This is twice the population of Korea (49,232,844 July 2008 est.)
What is most telling about your comment is that you appear ignorant not only of conditions abroad, but the conditions that exist in your own country. However, if you are interested in learning more about Korean attitudes toward race, you have come to the right place to hear the accounts of non Koreans who have encountered prejudice. Most foreigners in Korea have.
Racial epithets, Nazi signs painted at Korean-American church
http://www.ajc.com/metro/conte.....ffiti.html
Nettizen Kim, the article clearly states that this was an isolated incident never before experienced in the 10 years of the church, most likely a prank by ignorant youth.
Thank you for sharing this. It reinforces the point that racism is not really an issue for Korean Americans.
I strongly condemn that church desecration regardless of who the perpetrators are found to be.
Yes, we strongly condemn all such crimes, regardless of the perpetrators.
Here is an article about http://socialissues.wiseto.com.....020630253/
“Though racism has not been completely erased from American consciousness, the past 100 years prove how much society can progress. Within the next century, racism in America faces extinction.”
Korea may call itself a dynamic society, but America truly is one.
#36: “Regardless of how easy it is for foreign, non-Han people to obtain citizenship, you can’t dispute that there is another, streamlined process for gyopos. Basically, you have 2 systems in this country: one for people with Korean blood and another for those without. That is racism.
That’s just talking about citizenship.
My gyopo neighbor can come here on an F visa, and teach, unfettered by immigration. He might not know a word of Korean, or anything about the culture. But his skin is the right color. ”
Well, yes and no.
Many countries have streamlined rules for certain groups, based on historical ties, that could be regarded as not ‘fair’. For example, I believe it is much easier for citizens of British Commonwealth countries to get visa’s to other Commonwealth countries. And, until 9/11 citizens of the United States and Canada could pretty much freely enter each other’s country at will. I remember being waved into the U.S. with a bored glance and nary even a request for ID. That was based on historical ties and trust. Last, I am pretty sure that people who have a grandparent who was or is a citizen of the EU get preferential work visa status or even an EU passport. A buddy of mine with an Irish grandparent applied for something like that, I remember.
I just think every country has a right to control its borders any way it wants to, and giving a streamlined process to one group and a more difficult one to another is ok. Entering another country is not the human right some people feel it is.
#48:
I don’t think that “entering a country is a human right” as you imply.
But to claim that Korea treats all people, regardless of skin color, equally, as Mr. Koehler implied, is a bit absurd.
You can point out (and I don’t dispute) the racism in other western countries.
(My Brooklyn born uncle is an Irish citizen, my grandmother obtained that for him so he could avoid the Vietnam war)
But it doesn’t change the fact that Korea has racist laws, as Ireland did (and since amended, preventing me from becoming an EU citizen).
As I learned so long ago, two wrongs don’t make a right.
Korea wants to learn English.
It would help if they were accepting of diversity (and could save them a lot of money to boot).
Say what you want about racism in the United States or elsewhere, (it exists), but you can’t say America doesn’t welcome diversity.
Also, racism (at least where I’m from in NY) is NOT socially acceptable.
But in Korea…
I was saying that I disagree that any country fast-tracking or slow-tracking any group is racism. I wasn’t pointing out “the racism in western countries”, because to my mind that is not racism at all.
#50
If a country is fast-tracking a particular race towords citizenship, than that is, by definition, racism.
I’m not saying they don’t have the right, but judging a person because of their race (as Korean law does) IS RACISM.
“For example, I believe it is much easier for citizens of British Commonwealth countries to get visa’s to other Commonwealth countries. And, until 9/11 citizens of the United States and Canada could pretty much freely enter each other’s country at will.”
These are not based on race or ethnicity, however.
Is it judging a visa application based on historical ties, or judging a visa application based on race? You say potato… lets agree to disagree. I’m done.
Robert, was that you in that drama, ‘Here Comes Ajumma’?
If it’s based on race, then it’s based on race. If it’s based on historical ties, then it’s based on historical ties. It’s crystal clear to me, man; what’s your problem?
I was going to post a comment - then decided others had gotten the point across and better than I was going to - and I left. But, then this occured to me:
For all the terribly empathetic, broad minded long-term expats, what would you tend to say and think IF:
instead of in Korea involving foreigners, this same incident had taken place in the US between three white guys and two black guys - during a period of racial tension being played out in the news every day…
….how many of you would go to such lengths to downplay the racial angle or to avoid a discussion about the level of racism in American society?
I thought back to the mid-1980s when one or two black young men were beaten to death with baseball bats in an Italian neighborhood in New York.
Were all Americans racist? No.
Was America a racist country - as it was before the Civil Rights Movement? No.
Did that event show that there was a serious racial problem in the US? %uck yeah!!
Yes, but in the U.S., the blacks are giving as good as they’re getting — nay, better.
In contrast, white dudes are not running around terrorizing Koreans in Korea.
Yours is a poor analogy.
The problem with pulling the race card (charging others of racism) is that it seldom leads to a constructive discussion and tends to degenerates into a mutual blame game.
We can commonly agree that racism occurs worldwide and is not acceptible anywhere it occurs.
The main difference between the US and Korea with regard to racism is that America has already confronted (and continues to confront) the issue extensively and laboriously; the national consciousness has been raised to the point that racism in any form is simply not culturally acceptible or prevalent; and detailed, sweeping measures have been implemented to de-institutionalize racism.
The bottom line is that the overwhelming majority of Americans are not racist and abhor it in any form. Evidence of this is that American society has evolved to the point that an African American is the most likely candidtate to be elected the next President.
While criticisms of American racism have been leveled by Europeans and Asians, this degree of progress has so far not been matched by any other nation.
Criticisms of American racism by Koreans are undeserved. Non Koreans also see it as hypocritical considering the generally prevailing attitudes toward other races in Korea. However they are typically quite understanding of Korea’s special circumstances, and generally recognize that Koreans simply harbor a great many misconceptions about the outside world. A great many Koreans genuinely believe that anti-Korean racism is widespread among other races. While foreigners laugh about this, it is actually rather sad.
How can you dispell an illusion that is so widespread? The anti-beef protests demonstrate that it is exceedingly difficult for many Koreans to distinguish the facts from the illusions. This Korean naivete is attributable to Korea’s continued cultural and social isolation from the world mainstream.
As I continue to point out, there is only one solution - opening the Korean mind to other modes of thinking. How do you teach people to “think outside the box” or “think outside the race”, if you will? In my judgement, the single greatest element that has been neglected in the education system is critical analysis. If only critical analysis were to supplant rote memorization, all the problems that face Korean society today could be approached from a constructive, logical perspective and significant progress could be made.The Korean pattern of one step forward, two steps back could be reversed.
Koreans insist that they have a high internet connectivity rate. But this does them little good as they are ill equipped to handle the overload of information. They cannot yet reliably analyze information and distinguish the junk from the valuable, the misinformation from the facts. They make up their minds based on bare assertions supported by dubious data. In other words, they “pre-judge” (which is what prejudice is), rather than weigh the facts before arriving at an informed conclusion. How is it possible that Americans with their much higher internet connectivity rate yet manage to arrive at reasoned conclusions for themselves rather than following the crowd?
Instead of criticising President Lee for being autocratic, Koreans need to attack the real source of autocratic control in the nation - what I call the “wang ta culture.” The roots of this are found in a society that teaches intolerence of differing viewpoints. The remedy is to teach logic, debate and critical analysis. This is the key to solving Korea’s social problems.
#44
“Racial epithets, Nazi signs painted at Korean-American church”
Hey, that wasn’t a racist act. That was the work of evil anti-Korean trolls from China or Japan, right? I mean, that’s what most Koreans like to blame each time there is an offensive comment about Korea, right?
I don’t think Korea is “racist” as much as it is “Korea is special and Korea is only for Koreans.” There is a difference.
If Koreans were “racist” in the true sense of the word, then they would be fervent advocates of uniting with other members of their same race such as Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese, etc. and teaming up against their enemies of the enemy race (white, black, etc.). Clearly, that is not the case. Koreans don’t give a damn about race. They only care about themselves.
It’s really ironic…but single race following countries such as Korea are admired by white supremacists such as those Neo Nazis found posting on Stormfront. In short, Korean views are much more in line with Nazi white supremecists and Nation of Islam Black Supremacists, who actually respect Korea because of their adherence to the ideology of “A single pure race without any mixing”, a “noble” ideal which many whites and blacks feel has unfortunately been lost in modern multi-racial societies today as a result of liberal apologetic thinking in their own societies. I can’t even begin to count how many Nazi and Black supremacists have admitted that East Asian racist nations like Korea, Japan, or China are the countries they admire the most because of their adherence to the “no immigration, no race mixing” ideologies which rule these countries.
Thus, knowing this, the fact that so many Koreans admire Adolf Hitler as one of the figures of history (along with Kim Il Sung) which they most admire, is really not really surprising. Basically, David Duke, Pat Buchanan, Jean Marie Le Pen, Adolf Hitler, Heinrich Himmler, Farrakhan, and Pauline Hanson would probably find they have much more in common with Kim Jong Il, Roh Moo Hyun, and pretty much the majority of Koreans than they do with Ted Kennedy, Hillary Clinton, or Martin Luther King Jr.
But in the end, it’s the choice of Koreans if they would rather be known as people who are respected by the world’s more racist leaders than those people who advocate harmony and co-existence among other nationalities and races.
Also, I think that perhaps many Koreans do not really see themselves as “racist” because they really don’t understand what “racism” or “nationalism” is.
In more progressive societies like America, Canada, and Europe, advocating purity of one’s national ethnicity or race and condemning mixing or treating people from other countries not as equals is considered a bad thing.
However, in Korea, treating foreign people as animals who are not at the same level as Koreans, condeming international mixing, and applying different standards for foreigners is considered not only the “right” or “admirable” thing to do, but the ONLY thing to do. There is no other option.
In short:
Racism is looked upon as a bad thing in most western countries.
Racism is looked upon as a good thing in Korea.
Two more examples:
A black man is tied to the bumper of a truck and dragged to death in Texas…
Can such an incident prompt discussion about the level of troubling racism that still exists in Texas and the US?
Or — has American society moved so far past its period of significant racism that such a discussion is more negative than positive?
Same two questions for the next example:
A Japanese college student in Cali. is going to a Halloween party but goes to the wrong address. An off duty cop (I think it was) is the homeowner and confronts the Japanese guy with a gun. The Japanese guy doesn’t understand the English commands being barked at him and doesn’t know how to respond - and the homeowner shoots him dead.
Can this event bring about a discussion of racism in the US? or would such a discussion on this event prove more negative than positive in understanding American society?
Obviously, for anybody who knows America during the time both these events took place, the level of anti-Asian racism in the US does not rise close to the level of that for blacks and Hispanics.
It would make little sense to get into a discussion about racism in the case of the Japanese student.
But it would certainly make sense to talk about racism in the US with the black man’s case.
You’re probably thinking of Yoshihiro Hattori, who was shot in Louisiana, not California.
(Sorry if this shows up as a double post… my original post appears to have been nuked, probably b/c of the link in it.)
“If it’s based on race, then it’s based on race. If it’s based on historical ties, then it’s based on historical ties. It’s crystal clear to me, man; what’s your problem?”
Well, if a kid has just one Korean grandparent, he or she is eligible for the “kyopo” visa. So, since the kid has more than half Korean ancestry (race), well, there goes your argument. So now it’s clear it’s based on historical ties, yes? Yes.
Above should read “more than half non-Korean ancestry”
# 62,
Hey, don’t forget Vincent Chin…
Vincent Chin was killed 25 years ago. What a timely reminder of racism in the US. Several years ago, an American English teacher was stabbed to death in a Suncheon high school by a Korean man who told the police he didn’t like foreigners teaching Korean children. Unlike Vincent Chin’s murder, this one was not publicized directly in the media but only indirectly through a letter to the editor from a grieving friend. Ignorance is bliss when it comes to xenophobic violence against foreigners in Korea.
Racism in Korea means patriotism for many Koreans.
Are there any Hitler Bars in Canada?
you know, seeing you expats whine all day about racism. man, do you folks ever get over yoursleves?
ah korea, land where the white man is black.
lol.
‘Unlike Vincent Chin’s murder, this one was not publicized directly in the media but only indirectly through a letter to the editor from a grieving friend. Ignorance is bliss when it comes to xenophobic violence against foreigners in Korea.’
the man was mentally ill. got nothing to do with race. vincent chin was killed for simply being. when you can come up with something better, sonag, let me know.
and really, who do you think is going to believe a bunch of white folk talking about other people’s racism? do you folks realize how you cheapen what your people have done to others by comparing yourslef to some poor black man in the jim crow south?
who but you will take you seriously, expat? who?
noboedy…..
but
you.
ps, just fyi, robert, i noticed ever since you did maintenance on your site, we now see the same as before; longer load times, and the inability to provide links.
Sonagi,
Vincent Chin is still very much alive in the Asian American collective memory (particularly with Chinese Americans)because it’s unresolved, justice was never served.
I’m a little disturbed by your apparent stand that since it happened awhile ago that it’s relevant. A Korean kid (one adopted by a white familiy at that) was beated an inch of death in Seattle not too long ago by two white kids. Despite witnesses who said it was racially motivated, the Seattle police is not charging it has a hate crime.
Everybody needs to stop the denial and embrace their inner racist child. Racism is a biologically-determined human trait, as difficult to shake as the desire to eat when hungry, or screw when horny. Statements such as “Koreans are racist” or “americans are racist” are themselves racist statements. Get over it.
Either spice up the conversation to make it more entertaining or don’t have it at all.
I mean “it’s not as relevant.”
The police said the same thing about the man who stabbed to death the African-American US military doctor in Samgakchi. In Korea, only mentally ill people attack foreigners. Hmmmm. Those two college students who sliced up Matt Lamers with a beer bottle must have been mentally ill.
Sonagi, here’s the article on the Seattle incident:
http://www.dailyevergreen.com/story/24584
And let’s not forget the murder of a Chinese food delivery man by three bored teens. It was the basis of a Law & Order episode which postulated that the crime was racially motivated.
Not wanting to comment directly upon Matt and his white boyfriend as I don’t know either of them personally or the true facts of the incident, but I do believe that when they decided to travel in what can be perceived as an ethnically homogenous group in a drinking district they increased their vulnerability to unwanted attention, even possibly appearing to pose a threat (yes, some of these kids are insecure).
Maybe I’m calling the guys naive, but hey, shit happens and it happened to them, however I believe the likelihood of shit happening in this case would have been diminished had they been a little more street savvy. Perhaps it can pose as a lesson to other english teachers that think they can walk the streets of drinking districts like this. Some young korean males may see this as predatory behaviour for their girls. I dont want to have to connect all the dots…
Don’t these two guys have any Korean friends to hang with? This is Korea, after all. When I travel overseas the last thing I want to do is go to the places with all the other Korean tourists. Defeats the purpose of traveling.
Back in the late 80s/early 90s, a Korean woman was prosecuted for biting off the tongue of a man who was raping her. Would it be fair, Wangkon, for foreigners to cite this as an example of injustice and gender equality in Korea? Justice was not served then, either, and in fact, I believe laws restricting the rights of victims to defend themselves remain on the books.
At least the crime made the papers, unlike the murder of the American English teacher. Prior to the internet, Wangkon, about the only foreign victim crimes reported in the Korean press were those involving the US military; since they were already publicized in the Stars and Stripes, the Korean media needed to put its spin on the story.
Three years ago, a white boy with a heart condition was beaten nearly to death by a group of black teenagers in Chicagoland. Despite evidence that the attack might have been racially motivated, police decided not to charge the teens with a hate crime.
The concept of hate crime itself as a separate charge is dubious. Most statutes cover only race and ethnicity, not gender or sexual orientation. Motives can and should be taken into account in sentencing, but hate crimes should not exist as a separate criminal charge.
Look at this part of the entry for “racism” on wikipedia.
State-sponsored racism
Main articles: Nazism and race, Racial policy of Nazi Germany, Generalplan Ost, Eugenics in Showa Japan, Apartheid in South Africa, Racial segregation in the United States, Anti-Chinese legislation in Indonesia, and Anti-Japanese sentiment in Korea
Thanks for the kudos, I edited that entry.
Feel free to make any changes to it that you like.
And let me make clear, Wangkon, that I understand the injustice of the Vincent Chin case and appreciate how it sparked a national Asian-American civil rights movement. At least an Asian-American whose civil rights are violated or who is the victim of a racially motivated crime has millions of fellow Asian-Americans plus millions more Americans of other races to support their cause. It is very hard for foreign victims of crimes in Korea to get any national support because the Korean media either ignores the case or covers it in a biased manner.
Don’t forget that many so called “hate crimes” are later found to be a hoax.
“Perhaps it can pose as a lesson to other english teachers that think they can walk the streets of drinking districts like this. Some young korean males may see this as predatory behaviour for their girls. I dont want to have to connect all the dots…”
Wow. White guys walking down the street. Must be predators. Man, you are seriously afraid of white people.
#83
Not me you dolt, I am merely trying to illustrate the mentality of the perpetrators. Its not a perfect encapsulation of how some of these young punks think, but people should try to delve into the dynamics behind these incidents so as to be able to avoid them.
I don’t presume that most people have any difficulty in trying to understand the points of view of others.
Swlee — I know we’re trying to embrace our inner racist child and all, but still, do you think you could have addressed the issues in #77 in a manner that DIDN’T seemingly confirm expat stereotypes of Korean males as insecure racist male chauvinists prone to assault mixed couples on the street?
Well, it’s another day, and a quick scan of the dailies yields…nothing. This story has blood and violence, took place in a well-known part of town, and even has the sweetener of an allegation of racial motivation - but still no coverage.
Hmm, what a puzzler.
@85, ignoring your use of the qualifier ’seemingly,’ I have no intention of proving stereotypes. I believe that indeed there are some young Korean boys who can indeed be perceived by “insecure racist male chauvinists prone to assault mixed couples on the street”. Just as expats on this blog can be perceived as subscribing to the stereotype that all Koreans are “insecure racist male chauvinists prone to assault mixed couples on the street”.
This issue is all rather too simplistic to be categorized as such.
In my experience I have seen many white guys teaming up in these drinking areas to pick up girls. personally, i see nothing wrong with this in racial terms (it is a bit hedonist, but if everyone consents), however, I can understand that a small minority of Korean male (media influenced,insecure, whatever) would not like it. lets attribute it to a lack of decorum. But the interracial thing does not affect me, myself and four of my school friends are happily married to foreign women, and for whatever reason, are often envied by other friends who married in.
Korean women do not hold the attraction to all Korean men that many on this blog seem to believe, this is the 21st century afterall.
“It is very hard for foreign victims of crimes in Korea to get any national support because the Korean media either ignores the case or covers it in a biased manner.”
I’d agree with you on that. I believe embassies of the home countries are not much help either in this case.
I see from your flag that you are living in Australia. If your and your friends’ wives are Australian, then they are not foreigners, but you and some of your friends may be, depending on your citizenship. Please don’t project a Korea-centric definition onto the English word “foreigner.”
Two white guys = “an ethnicially homogenous group” that “pose a threat.” Oh sweet jesus, always walk alone in Korea whitey! If you happen to have a friend, the imminent threat of one lone whitey then multiplies exponentially into the dreaded ethnicially homogenous group! Call the riot police, we’ve got two white guys sitting on a bench! A fucking group, and they’re a threat, because they’re BOTH WHITE! Koreans are pissing their pants as we speak at the mere sight of TWO white guys. TWO!!!! Run for your fucking lives!
You’re better off just keeping your piehole shut swlee. Painting the average Korean student in Hongdae as a bedwetting chauvinist unable to stomach the sight of two white guys without resorting to assault really isn’t doing your brothers any favors.
I live in Hongdae. But as of now on, I’m meeting my white friends in Itaewon only. I don’t want to create an ethnically homogeneous group of two or more and needlessly threaten the Koreans around me. With my blue eyes and hairy arms I’m quite threatening enough by myself.
Thanks for helping me realize I was a horrible monster that should only be viewed singly, in the daylight, away from women and small children. And thanks for making me realize that I should never spend time with my friends in public.
Actually, YTN complained about these threatening bands of foreigners in Hongdae last year:
http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/.....f-hongdae/
Foreigners never go around alone seems to be a lament that we (well, you, really, as I go around drunk by myself all the time, but never in Hongdae) are not easier to
victimizehandle bymobsgroups of “concerned citizens”.It’s Saturday night in front Hongik University
A group of two foreigners with short hair sit on a bench, talking quietly.
They speak English to each other when a Korean man walks by and overhears their muffled conversation…
The Korean man, who was talking on the phone, flees the area, soiling his trousers as he runs.
[...]
[Interview: neighborhood merchant]
“Are there many foreigners quietly sitting on benches talking to each other?”
“They’re all sitting on benches just talking to each other. They go around in pairs, I guess because they need someone to talk to. They’re never alone. I’m afraid for my life. How can I raise my children in such an environment?”
“Well, if a kid has just one Korean grandparent, he or she is eligible for the “kyopo” visa. So, since the kid has more than half Korean ancestry (race), well, there goes your argument. So now it’s clear it’s based on historical ties, yes? Yes.”
So if I kill a black man just because he’s black, I can say it’s because he had black ancestors who my white ancestors used to exploit, so it’s not a racist murder, but one based on “historical ties.”
You’re an idiot.
Historical ties are like those that allowed, until recently, Canadians and Americans to travel pretty much freely across the border. That was based on 150+ years of peaceful relations and frequent alliances. Not based on who anybody’s grandparents were.It didn’t matter if your grandaddy was from Chicago, London, Beijing, or Mogadishu. If you gots an American/Canadian passport, you’re in.
Gyopo visa: you must have at least 25% Korean ethnicity, right? SO IT’S BASED ON RACE. It isn’t based on the relationship between countries, it’s based on your DNA. And, therefore, based on race.
Now here’s a bit of bridge building: this issue is complicated, because the simple fact is that 99.9% of the time, Korean citizenship = Korean ethnicity. Technically, the rule is that if one parent or grandparent renounced Korean citizenship, you can get the F-4. But I bet that there are exactly 0 times when said (grand)parent was not an ethnic Korean. If your grandaddy was a black citizen of Korea in the 50’s, I suppose you could get the F-4, but I’d like to see you try it.
“If Koreans were “racist” in the true sense of the word, then they would be fervent advocates of uniting with other members of their same race such as Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese, etc. and teaming up against their enemies of the enemy race (white, black, etc.). Clearly, that is not the case. Koreans don’t give a damn about race. They only care about themselves.”
Ever heard of ethnicity? By your logic, the Nazis weren’t racists either because they killed Slavs and Jews, who were also, like the Nazis, white. Yours is a fourth grade conception of race.
Do Koreans find ethnically homogeneous groups of two or more Koreans to be threatening as well?
How about a group of racially non-Korean persons of different races? Would that be more or less threatening than an ethnically homogeneous group?
See, now that’s something the newspapers would like to write about.
Some other comments:
From #36:
Actually, the gentleman I referred to isn’t married. And as cm pointed out in #32, the requirements for citizenship aren’t particularly difficult, although admittedly, the requirements are eased for those married to Koreans — 2 years instead of five for foreign spouses with no children, and 1 year for those with children. In 2005, some 12,000 foreigners became Koreans citizens. Yes, the test can apparently be difficult, and there was, at least, a waiting line as applicants began to spike:
http://imnews.imbc.com/replay/....._2687.html
But nobody is asking for you to recite the lineup of the 1989 OB Bears.
Actually, in his followup he DID suggest that Korea legally discriminated against non-citizens, in which I simply pointed out that it did not. As for societal discrimination, of course it exists, and is well documented… even in the Korean press (unless you’re talking about English teachers).
As for the laws concerning gyopo, yes, they are discriminatory. They also don’t particularly bother me, considering the historic, cultural and family ties of the Korean diaspora to Korea. For that matter, I understand Japan has similar laws with the nisei, Germany recognized the right of return of ethnic Germans from Eastern Europe, and then there’s Israel.
From #41: