Mitchell Bard of The Huffington Post acknowledges that the protests regarding American beef imports have a nationalistic root. However, his take away is different than other analysts. Mitchell looks at the protests in Korea and bemoans why there are no similar displays of outrages in the U.S.
Granted, The Huffington Post is a liberal or at least left of center weblog, but a lot of people read it and it does bring up an interesting point. To at least some people, it appears that American citizenry, over the recent past, has been lobotomized regarding proactive displays of civic protest.
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The US policy doesn’t display similar outrageous behavior because such aggressive behaviors is an overall detriment to society. It only makes sense when the long term results outweigh the short term instability that comes with massive protests.
The calculus of modern Western societies, after years of dealing with similar crap, has been reformed because people have come to realize how such selfish behaviors on the part of minorities really damages everybody, especially if the gain would only be substantial in the long-short term.
Something like this case can be handled through legislative means and people using their REPRESENTATIVES to handle the situation, not rampant civic disobedience to a minor issue which has just been inflamed by the short-sightedness of select groups in the society and the machinations of extremists. The state of Korea is designated as a REPUBLIC of Korea for a reason: such mob rule was seen as dangerous by every western philosopher since Plato to Kant to Nietzsche.
Democracies in their literal sense is the WORST form of government, even worse than autocratic governments, and what the Korean mob mentality is a textbook example of what is innately wrong with a democracy, and why every western state is a god damn republic. If Koreans truly understand what modern democracies are (which is republicanism) they would find more productive and agreeable venues of solving their problems, not coercion through mob rule.
Honestly, such behavior borders along the line of savagery; a view of this as something positive is fanciful romanticism at best.
Shorten that last sentence to “lobotomized displays of civic protest” and you’re on the money.
it’s all about issues. if the pres. bush and the congress make abortion illegal in all 50 states, i am sure americans will be protesting just like the koreans. it’s just that sometimes the small issues bother people much more than the bigger issues. u could say the same thing about the koreans. how come they are so fired up on american beef issue and yet, when it comes to north korean related issue, they are so silent? where are thousands of people protesting against the chinese governemnt’s policy towards nk refugees? there are about 200,000 nk in china who are suffering and yet, south koreans are more concerned about some beef…
I dunno… those protests calling for immigration reform of a year or so ago were pretty rousing and well-attended. ‘Course, those weren’t all exactly Americans doing the protesting, but still…
It is not civic-mindedness; it is anti-Americanism that brought Koreans together. I do not think Michael Bard knows much about Koreans. Koreans seem to have had Manchurian-Candidate-like brainwashing that triggers a rage whenever 미국놈 and 우리 나라 무시하다 are used in the same sentence.
I wonder if Michael Bard would also decribe Palestinian protesters as having “civic pride and interest in national affairs”?
There were enormous anti-war protests in the US. Some of them blocked traffic and major roads. Police then came in to beat up and arrest the protesters. US police wouldn’t be able to handle a protest like the ones taking place in downtown Seoul.
And it’s not anti-Americanism either, contrary to the paranoid commentaters on this and other boards. Koreans aren’t anti-American. They are very often anti-US govt. but then again so are a lot of Americans, including, according to their public claims anyway, quite a large number of republicans.
As far as the irrelevant remark about Palestinian protesters, I can only asssume it’s an apology for Zionism, in which every Palestinian has every right to protest.
Unless the gov’t is hauling citizens off in railroad cars, protests are only serve as temper tantrums by 5-year-olds in adult bodies. Who have no practical solutions. And have nothing better to do.
Maybe all the protesting kids can start their own blogs and have the world’s first online-only protest. Sparkling!
Ooo, anti-US occupation AND anti-Zionist. Very good.
Congratulations Michael Bard, for not only displaying a profound ignorance of South Korea, but of your own country as well.
Let’s see if you’re still overflowing with breathless praise for South Korean “outrage” and “civic pride and interest in national affairs” after taking a full bucket of cow shit to the face while standing in line for a steak at a Korean grocery store. Because that’s another manifestation of Korean outrage.
Or perhaps when the Korean bank you work in is forcefully overrun and occupied for weeks by violent unionists wielding pipes, who proceed to destroy the entire headquarters. There’s some more positive Korean outrage.
How about when you’re stuck in your car, stranded on a freeway for 14 hours in 95 degree heat because some truckers, fueled by their unique Korean outrage, decided to block a main highway artery in protest. You’ll be singing the praises of Korean civic pride then, won’t you?
Or maybe when you’ve got a vacation planned to Thailand with all your hotels and airline tickets paid for, but on the morning you’re supposed to leave for the airport, the bus drivers decide they need a few more dollars an hour and strike at the spur of the moment, paralyzing transportation to the airport and costing you $3500 and your vacation. That’ll probably have you cheering them on, won’t it?
And If that hasn’t sold you on the merits of Korean outrage, maybe you’ll volunteer to be a riot policeman manning the front lines against a gang of apartment squatters, who are outraged that they’re being told to abandon their illegally occupied shitpile, so they use slingshots, blowtorches, molotov cocktails, and bottles full of piss as their way of displaying “civic pride.”
Perhaps a run-in with some rioting farmers wielding spears, rakes, torches, and other assorted farm-weapons on Yeouido will get you your fill of Korean outrage. All in the name of interest in national affairs, those riots are.
Haven’t had your fill yet? Talk to Private John Murphy about his experience with Korean outrage. If being kidnapped by a large group of Korean students over a minor subway altercation, and then being forced to publicly apologize in front of thousands of outraged protesters is your cup of tea, then he’s got a great story for you.
These are the kind of things that Korean outrage get you, Michael Bard. It’s not all candles and rainbows, as you seem to believe. It’s a fucking corn-fed abortion of riots, violence, public disturbances, transportation breakdowns, occupations, sit-ins, and general mayhem without the slightest respect for the law or the rights of those that are victimized by the childish displays of self-righteous outrage.
And that is what you want America to become? Do us all a favor and get on the next plane to Korea. Stick yourself in the middle of the shitstorm for a few years, and then tell us what a great attribute that outrage is.
Go ahead and tell us Americans that we need to be outraged by some stupid fucking “Hollywood Action,” or outraged by a dumb fucking Leno joke about a dog, or a worthless fucking island, or an irrelevant textbook, or an old fucking shrine, or maybe an Olympic gymnast named Hamm.
Yes, just what America needs more of…mindless, hyper-sensitive, knee-jerk outrage from its citizens.
If only we could be more like Koreans….then all our problems would be solved.
There were enormous anti-war protests in the US. Some of them blocked traffic and major roads. Police then came in to beat up and arrest the protesters. US police wouldn’t be able to handle a protest like the ones taking place in downtown Seoul.
You clearly don’t know what you’re talking about if you can say in the same paragraph that US cops couldn’t handle it but note that they beat up and arrested antiwar protesters, unless you mean to suggest that US cops should just bend-over and take it like the poor kids mobilized by the KNP. More likely they’d take out the pipe-wielders and molotov-tossers - and rightly so.
the most important snip from article:
‘I mean, if the Koreans took to the streets over a food-import debate (yes, I know that it goes to nationalist sentiments, but, again, it comes down to whether or not to allow beef into the country), what would they have done if their government admitted that it lied to them to get them to support a bogus war?
That’s right, just last week, a U.S. Senate committee found that President George W. Bush, Vice President Dick Cheney, and other high-ranking administration members, in the run-up to the Iraq war, “distorted the facts, or said things that were not supported by the facts, [or] said things they knew or should have known were not true.” What was the reaction of the American people? Silence.’
hwat i’ve been saying all along. not bad for someone who has no idea what he’s talking about, no?
With regard to the Bard article, I don’t see how protesting in the streets would do anything to rectify a conflict which is over 5 years old. At hte ime, all across the US in every major city, the biggest protests in 30 years occured. To what effect? The white house amped up their message through various means and media and America bought it.
I agree with Bard on one point. That is, Korean people, particulary the goung generation have the sense that this is their democracy and if they’re not satisfied with it, change can be made at anytime through protest. Bard seems to view this as a somewhat positive quality, which Americans should learn from. As ghostyoon pointed, this is not what a republic is all about, something lost on these same people.
What if the US decided to ban imports on all KIA minivans because several vehicles exploded upon ignition 10 years ago in a third country. Instead, the US had decided to only import similar minivans from Japan. “But we’ve never had a problem with the minivans in Korea, and the problem that happened 10 years ago was not even a KIA vehicle.” they may continue, “you need to educate yourself about KIA. Your decision is AntiKorean.”
‘As ghostyoon pointed, this is not what a republic is all about, something lost on these same people.’
it seems only the expat understands the world. it’s always ‘yes, but..’ with him. if only he could run things….
a good sign this poster doesnt know their ass from their elbow
And it’s not anti-Americanism either, contrary to the paranoid commentaters on this and other boards. Koreans aren’t anti-American.
this was the funniest/stupidest thing i heard all day
I’ve got a Korea-inspired protest idea that remains true to the civic virtue and intellectual integrity of those Han River miracle-makers: Let’s rally all patriotic Americans in St Louis to stop the takeover of Anheuser-Busch by InBev. I mean, we’re talking about the King of Beers, being taken over by … Belgians. Belgians! What do Belgians know about good beer?
The ol’ “we are against the government, not the people.” Utter BS. There are fair number of Koreans who do not like Americans, period. These same Koreans tend to dislike Japanese, Chinese, and other most favored nationalities.
Worse: InBev is now mostly Brazilian [altough there are token Belgian management drones]. So, Brazilian King of Beer…?
Excellent op ed in the Korea Times:
The anti-American agitators are named:
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/ww.....25950.html
Guilty parties include:
1-The media: April 28th MBC’s `PD Notebook” aired a program containing baltant falsehood, including the falsehood that Koreans are genetically susceptible to catching Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease (CJD) from consuming beef (the researcher states he never said that - Koreans are only moe susceptible to the spontaneously arising form of the disease, not through beef eating).
2-Members of the Korean Teachers and Education Workers’ Union have been pushing propaganda CDs and other materials on their students in an attempt to fan fears of death by eating American beef.
3-The usual suspects, such as leftist professional protestors like Oh Jong-ryeol, head of Solidarity for Reunification, among other organizations, politicians and labor groups have also jumped into the act as the protests evolved into a multi-organizational campaign criticizing both real and imagined faults of the Lee administration.
4-Ex-president Kim Dae Joon, showing he never understood democracy, referred to this anarchistic nonsense as “experiment in direct
democracy”
5- The Lee administration has not been effective in dealing with internet rumors and fear mongering campaigns conducted by groups like the KTEWU.
6- Finally, I blame the Korean scientific community, teachers and media, for not responsibly explaining the true science to the public. Of course, you can hardly blame them as they have been intimidated to perpetrate the lies. Actress Chung Sun Hee was forced to resign from her radio shows for making a statement about the protests. At least one teacher was fired. People are bullied into not telling the truth. This Korean custom is known as “wong ta.”
Gotta love what the Brazilians have done for beachware around the world.
beachwear, that was…
There were huge protests and demonstrations in Seattle during the WTO meeting in 1999. Free trade agreements such as NAFTA have also gathered huge crowds in the US and Canada.
Tear gas against Americans? Yes, it happened in Seattle. Lets hope Korean police does not resort to that kind of violence against free speech.
I used to love the smell of pepper dust in this country. They need to bring it back to use on these losers.
And this line: “What do Belgians know about good beer?” That sentence displays a most profound ignorance of all things malted, hopped, fermented and poured.
Wedge, as someone who drank his way around Belgium in 1991 and, like you, a supporter of the great Beer Ambassador Phil Kelm in his fleeting effort to deliver good grog to Koreans in 2003/4, I assure you that, as advertised, I was trying to remain true to the intellectual integrity of the beef protests.
#21, About those WTO protests in Seattle, that rabble of weirdos was very violent and destructive. I don’t consider that a respectable form of expression of free speech. Seattle Police tried the kinder gentler approach and got nowhere with those yah-hoos - they’re lucky they only got tear gas, boo hoo!
I also agree that Mitch doesn’t know much about the South Korean public or politics. I also have to agree that the whole beef issue is the worse use of civic demonstration in the history of democracy (with the possible exception KKK marches on Washington, but I don’t think there as been one of size in D.C. in recent memory).
However, I think Mitch’s larger point of there being a lack of outrage in the U.S. public regarding the costliest war since Vietnam, the manner in which it was initiated and America’s confused energy policies which force us to place such a level of importance to the Middle East, has some merit. And I would say that it’s as if the American public has been lobotomized, which connotates aimless apathy rather than misdirected activity.
Lastly, it’s interesting that a Zionist, like Mitch, would criticize American involvement in the Middle East where they are actively engaged in Muslims who hate Israel. It must mean that he believes having so many American troops in Iraq may not be the best policy in defeating radical Islam or stabilizing the Middle East.
13, was that an insult towards me? Because it might have been a little too subtle for a guy blatantly called a traitor before for expressing this kind of thinking.
As for the American public’s attitude towards politics, I for one applaud the general populace’s indifference. If everyone was extremely heated about their views and constantly expressed them, got into arguments, and channeled their political frustrations into action, the country would continuously be at a standstill.
It’s always better for the radical sides of politics to vie for position while the bulky median sit back and live their lives, taking their action through voting mechanisms and letting their representatives know their perspectives when the issue becomes an issue.
If congress became inundated with calls and letters and protests every day by not just the radical left/right but by the general populace, government would be paralyzed by the pressure, not goaded towards action, and society would suffer from the lack of productive action by its citizens. Plowshares to swords isn’t a clever shorthand for a reason.
The lack of rage by the general consensus isn’t malaise; it’s the citizenry trusting that their representatives, at the end of the day, will get things right on course. The citizenry remain uninformed and apathetic because the representatives should do the job for them. They got voted in and paid their handsome salary for that reason.
Oh sure, everyone complains congress doesn’t do anything, that politicians don’t get anything done. Of course, when the country is so split on issues that the overall picture of the United States has no one party with a true majority, almost nothing should get done. Democracy (in the modern sense) was meant to be slow, so the passions of individuals or individual groups do not rule politics.
Sloth may be a sin, but wrath and pride are worse.
Back in 2003 only six Senators hauled their lazy *sses over to read the 90-page National Intelligence Estimate in a secure room on Capitol Hill. A few newly elected Senators cannot be faulted for not having read the report, but most of those sitting in judgment of George Bush, including Clinton and McCain, couldn’t be bothered to examine the case against Iraq before agreeing to invade. I believe there was deception through manipulation of information, but most members of Congress were willing partners in GW’s war as were a majority of the American people, informed and persuaded the US media.
What Mitch fails to realize is that Americans are going to voice their disapproval at the ballot box in November. I live in a conservative, church-going, Republican-dominated, small city that voted overwhelmingly for Bush both times. The feeling here is that Bush has been a huge disappointment in his second term with regard to both Iraq and the economy. The staff at my school are not openly political, but a few anti-George Bush jokes have been cracked at staff gatherings with the assumption that everyone agrees. McCain may be able to distance himself somewhat from Bush, but talk of us staying in Iraq fifty years won’t make him popular with voters.
Apparently you’re unaware of a little tradition we have here in the states wangkon…it’s called voting.
The Republican party got bitch-slapped in the 06′ midterms on all levels — local, state, national — and they’re about to take another one in the shitter here in a few months. They will have gone from controlling both houses and the presidency, to probably controlling none of them and facing significant gaps in seat margin, in a matter of two years, and the public discontent over Iraq is largely the cause.
Just keep that last paragraph under your hat…or it may influence the “happiness” of conservatives.
In reference to #23 and that issue, this link is useful:
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/w.....-didnt-lie
The editor of The New Republic wouldn’t exactly be confused with a neo-con….
Again, Koreans give the kids in school anti-American propaganda and the government AND citizens allow it.
This is no secret. Not even a draft dodging pawi (or other Korean-Chameleon)can argue that this is a fantasy of expats.
Simply Google it if you don’t believe me.
One seriously wonders whether those who think the US government evil have ever tried protesting in Havana, Pyongyang, Harare, Beijing, or Teheran.
Putting things into a more rational framework might help them regain their balance and composure. Pure political hyperbole, while favored by the governments of totalitarian countries where the press is operated by the government, is seldom useful in any event.
Koreans protest because it’s what they do. And they’ve spent generations protesting against the USA, because it’s what they always do. I sincerely hope they learn some manners before they reap what they have been sowing.
It won’t smell as nice as they may wish…
These anti-beef protests are examples of civic virtue in the same way that the “Reverend” Fred Phelps’s protests are examples of civic virtue. Okay, I’ll admit that is perhaps an extreme example, but nonetheless — there is nothing virtuous in protesting by itself. Any idiot can scream at the top of his lungs and hold a sign. I’m reminded of the old adage, “Better to be thought a fool than to open up your mouth and prove it.” If what you’re advocating is foolish or ignorant, I could care less how enthusiastic or passionate you are about it. When did passion and enthusiasm become a suitable replacement for reason?
Protests are “civic virtue” when they are conducted by informed citizens who understand the issues and are making a legitimate complaint. They are made up of people I might disagree with, but whose position I can nevertheless respect and understand. That isn’t the case here.
Perhaps Mitchell Bard is right about Americans lack of civic virtue. I have mixed feelings about that. But he chose a very poor example to illustrate it.
“I think Mitch’s larger point of there being a lack of outrage in the U.S. public regarding the costliest war since Vietnam..”
You are beginning to realize this war is a drop in the bucket
“the manner in which it was initiated”
Iraq attacked Kuwait
“and America’s confused energy policies”
America is a world leader in alternative energy research.
“which force us to place such a level of importance to the Middle East”
America created the oil industry
“has some merit.”
gee, wow
“And I would say that it’s as if the American public has been lobotomized”
are you Dr. Frankenstein?
“,which connotates aimless apathy rather than misdirected activity.”
did you just get off the phone with your dizzy girlfriend?
“Apparently you’re unaware of a little tradition we have here in the states wangkon…it’s called voting.”
Yes IHBB, I ditched every class of high school civics…
However, since I live in the People’s Republic of California, my vote doesn’t really matter in presidential elections.
“are you Dr. Frankenstein?”
“did you just get off the phone with your dizzy girlfriend?”
Comments like this don’t generally dignify a response.
Next.
#23: Slim–Sorry, had the sarco-meter turned off last night. OK, now I’m trying to figure out who you are if both of us know Phil. Hint?
ghost.yoon, some very well-thought-out comments by you there, and your name is great too.
“Civic virtue” and its cousin, civility, are not present in these demonstrations. It’s more of the “confusionism” that afflicts segments of Korean society.