Was looking at an older post at The Joshing Gnome that linked to a 2007 Vanity Fair piece decrying the state of New York’s British expatriate community. Read it and see if any of it seems familiar.
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The Ugly Expat: Not Just a Korean Thing
This entry was written by Robert Koehler, posted on June 14, 2008 at 1:27 pm, filed under Ministry of Barbarian Affairs, Stupid Foreigner Tricks. Bookmark the permalink. Follow any comments here with the RSS feed for this post.
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31 Comments
Came to Korea as a Canuck harboring a vague fondness for Britain and a vague dislike of America, having never met a citizen of either.
Realized after a long time and many encounters that Americans were by and large pretty polite and mannered folks, rather like Canadians, and Brits had a high high tendency to be mouthy obnoxious assholes.
FAVE story of Brit assholery: Joining my buddy for a pint in Itaewon one night, I get introduced to the Brit engineer in the group.
“Where are you from? Are you American?”
“No I’m Canadian.”
A sneer. “Oh! A pseudo-American!”
Pause.
“Are you always such an asshole to someone you’ve just been introduced to?”
“Oh no, no. Sorry. We really like you COLONIALS, you know, all the help you gave us and all….”
!!!
My New Zealand buddy put it best during a puzzled discussion of why meeting a Brit seemed so frequently to mean meeting a diarrhea-mouthed fuckhead:
“LOE boys! Loss Of Empire!”
Funny that. I came to Korea imagining Canadians to be gentler, less boorish versions of Americans (based on several visits to both countries). What I found, on the whole, was the reverse. Americans were polite and cool, and the Canadians were drunken loons who were, by some measure, the most nationalistic of any English-speaking nation.
That said, your observations about us Brits are right on the money
Heh heh. So far, my brit ex-roomie might have been the best roommate I’ve ever had. Personally, I’ve liked pretty much every New Zealander I’ve met. My conspiracy theory is that they require character references when you apply for a passport, and refuse to issue passports to assholes.
Haven’t met any arrogant prig brits like the one in Johnson’s story yet, but I’m sure they’re out there, ready to hooligan my ass if I say the wrong thing over a pint of bitter.
I’ve met more americans than any other group besides my own (canada), so I’ve had more opportunity to meet American psychos and phuckwits, but a few of my favourite people in the world are from there, too.
Some people from all countries are complete tools. Some of the nicest people I’ve met here have been Australian, the biggest arseholes I’ve met have also been Australian. Interesting? What does that say? Absolutely nothing at all.
I’ve met nice people from lots of different countries here, and complete idiots from many countries.
Saying all brits, or septics, or kiwis or X are like this or that is dumb and childish.
Perhaps there is a little truth in 1-3 and a lot more in four. Rob’s experiences ring true, most Kiwis I meet here are decent, educated chaps and rather rum like we Aussies, but I have encountered that looking-down-your-nose quality in some when I tell them where I am from. There’s an element of younger sybling jealousy some share with Canadians/Irish/Zimbabweans. That being said, I couldn’t but cringe when reading the article again since the guy had self-loathing Brit written all over him. I’d guess he’s a Taffy or a first generation Scot who grew up London. Being half English (passport-carrying, lived there for 4 years) myself, I am fond of gathering for rugby/football/cricket and enjoy these cultural events. It’s a bit hypocritical of him to derride these in comparison to the likes of Diwali when most vestiges of our culture have disappeared due to the self same cultural cringe he displays.
The part of the article which rings most true for those in Korea..is a bunch of foreigners sitting around a table talking about the locals…I hate it when ‘they’ do this and it annoys me when ‘they’ do that.
Basically complaining together in somewhere like Itaewon rather than making any effort at all to assimilate.
Is that a fair comment though? There are those of us who have lived outside of Seoul in towns where no such facilities exist, or indeed those who don’t frequent them often get out into the Hofs and soju tents and do mix in. Bitching about the locals is just part of the expat experience, one needs to blow off steam at times.
#7 very true!
Bitcing about the locals is just part of the expat experience- no matter where you are in the world.
It’s just a way to get it off your chest and share some friendly banter.
Some take it too far, but mostly it’s just the way things go.
Typo- Bitching!
I would imagine that the Brits would characterize us septics poorly if we were congregating in Surrey to watch the Super bowl in a similar fashion. The big difference is eventually we go HOME! I cringe, when I seldom go to Iteawon, and see the dogface boys mistreat the Koreans. The main difference here is the Brits have a longer history of being smarmy to natives in foreign lands. Yanks have a different chain of DNA when it comes to the international experience. Like mentioned in an earlier posting, the Brits are out to colonize and send the spoils back to the Queen. The fact that they can not follow their birthright is beyond their cultural fabric and conscience. Why did the Romans fuck it up? They were so close!
“Spiteful, prickly things in worn tweed, clutching crossword puzzles, gritting their Elizabethan teeth, soup-spotted, tomb-breathed, loud and deaf.” Nice.
Personally I’m inclined to think that anyone or anywhere that thinks “Woody Allen, and Woody Allen’s love life” equate with “quite enough irony to build the Brooklyn Bridge” has it coming…
The English are the most cliquish and consistently obnoxious and arrogant group of expats I’ve met in my time overseas.
Well, I agree that British expats can be arrogant, but at least when they have some problems with you, they lay it out in your face (from my experience anyway). It bugs me when people act all chummy or polite when you’re around but will open the verbal floodgates once you’re gone, or heaven forbid on the internet as I’ve seen towards others…
The biggest dickheads I’ve met in Korea have been Americans, Canadians, Aussies, Brits, Kiwis, Pakastanis, Koreans, French, and a few others of indeterminate origin. The nicest folks I’ve met in Korea have been Americans, Canadians, Aussies, Brits, Kiwis, Pakastanis, Koreans, French, and a few others of indeterminate origin.
These kinds of discussions always remind me of some graffiti I saw when I was in university:
Someone wrote, “It takes all kinds to make up this world.”
Underneath someone else added, “No it doesn’t, but they’re all f***ing here!”
I’ve been to quite a few Superbowl parties in England, but never in Surrey, and there never seem to be many Americans around.
Watching big games in pubs is what English people like to do. It does amaze me though that English people abroad tend to act almost as obnoxiously at these gatherings at English people in England. You’d think people who’d travelled a bit would be a bit more broad minded. However, I can’t see anything wrong with gathering to watch a big game and I can’t see anything wrong with a Scotsman wearing his kilt. It’s what some of them like to do. They do it all over the world, even in Scotland sometimes.
The only English person I ever met in New York was working on Wall Street as a trader. A couple of my English friends went to work there as computer programmers. I have to admit to some prejudice towards New Yorkers. If you want to impress me, then it’s probably better to say you’re from Arkansas. Especially Yankees fans. They’re the worst, at least when they’re winning
My girlfriend hates Kiwis. She just has a thing about them. Which is a shame, as New Zealand is such a great place.
Johnson, what you met was probably what is termed as “a bit of banter” in English culture. The expected response to “Oh! A pseudo-American!” is probably something like “better a pseudo-American than a pseudo-European”, rather than “Are you always such an asshole to someone you’ve just been introduced to?”
In the end, it all means diddly. We all go everywhere. Nice and asshole alike.The nice fade, and the assholes go on forever. What makes more/better conversation? Which can be built into an issue easier? Running down whom can make you feel superior?
# Aaron,
Yes indeed a Scot, and a renowned ancient toffy nosed Restaurant & Theatre critic for the Sunday Times.
shoudn’t this thread be combined with this
“The part of the article which rings most true for those in Korea..is a bunch of foreigners sitting around a table talking about the locals…I hate it when ‘they’ do this and it annoys me when ‘they’ do that.
Basically complaining together in somewhere like Itaewon rather than making any effort at all to assimilate.”
Just change the work “Korea” to “London” and “Itaewon” to “New Malden”,
and what do you get, ah yes korean expats who sit around talking about the locals rather than making any effort to assimilate.
Eujin, you could be right. It might have been banter, making the moment more a cross-cultural misunderstanding.
In North America, though, that kind of bantering jab is reserved for people you know. To a stranger, it’s being provocative and mouthy. But that’s North America.
Hell, Why itaewon, why not the marmots hole itself.
Oh, but some of my best friends are korean girls.
#18 swlee:
sw, are you suggesting that stabbing a broken beer bottle at a strangers chest is akin to a cultural misunderstanding?
#22 Johnson: are you suggesting that I am suggesting that stabbing a broken beer bottle at a strangers chest is akin to a cultural misunderstanding?
Oh my, the subtleties of the Internet.
I dont want to derail the thread, but
Ill post this here because i dont know where else to post it. International NGOs are mobilizing to save the Yellow-cheeked Gayde Swamp Frog in South Cheolla Province.
#15 Eujin, #20 Johnson,
I believe I witnessed said event from a nearby table, and as a brit I would definitely say it was intended as banter, in my experience Canucks, Kiwi, and & Matilda’s normally understand it as such given common heritage and thee extensive sharing of TV & Radio shows and comedians. We do however recrecognise that American’s, who haven’t spent time iin the UK, frequently don’t get it.
I actually thought at the time that Johnson’s response was banter too, not a sense of humour bypass….
Being born British but raised Australian I guess I have some benefit of being able to view British culture from inside and out, at least to some degree.
I’ve got nothing against people of any nationality wanting to celebrate their cultural days (inc. sporting events) passionately. And generally speaking, I’ve found Brits to be warm-hearted people.
However, I’ve never understood the tendency among many of them to want to “take the piss” out of people, (denegrating, embarassing, bringing people down), around them. Even people they hardly know.
Whilst this is usually done in, at least intended, good humor, Australians, Kiwis, US and Canadians would not think of trying this with people we’ve just met. Australians, at least, find that rude.
#25 JMin,
Don’t talk rubbish by trying to speak for every Australian, Kiwi, US and Canadian. I’ve personally witnessed examples from each of those countries doing exactly that. “oh, a bloody limey…eh.”, or perhaps an immediate insistance on talking like Dick van Dyke in Mary Poppins or perhaps…oh forget it, there’s arseholes all over the world and undeniably some of them are Brits, whats the point…
In fact Australian’s are the worst example I’ve experience while in Korea, having verbally denigrated me immediately on hearing my accent. Ironic since I am the flipside of your example an Australian riased in the UK.
Arghaeri, Maybe thats because you misrespect their president by using his image as an avatar.
Seung Wan Lee @ #23 - no disrespect to your lifestyle, we all understand and respect that Korean men are becoming more comfortable with their homosexuality - but do you have to post all those gay links in the comments section?
As difficult as it is for you to control yourself, try to remember - this is not the place for it.
@21: “oh, but my wife’s a foreigner.”. Asshat
I feel like Diogenes, looking for that one Korean who’s not a flaming hypocrite.
It’s fun to take the piss out of people. Only asshats don’t have good comeback lines.
My favorite after a Limey has made some sort of colonial remark: “Do you speak German?” “Why, no.” “You’re welcome.”