Yonhap News — yes, Korea’s national news service — reports that online commenters to this WaPo piece on the beef protests are calling for the withdrawal of US troops from Korea and banning the import of Korean cars.
Interesting… online comments are apparently fair news items now. Hmm…
UPDATE: Money Today also runs a story on those mean, mean WaPo netizens, pointing out in their lede that there are also comments that demean Korea, namely the one that tells Koreans to “eat Chinese food and be healthy forever.”
And since comments to foreign news articles are apparently fair game, there are currently 557 comments to the Money Today piece on Yahoo! Korea. The third most active comment, by netizen Kjydean, reads:
미친 양키새끼들. 그동안 미군이 울나라에서 벌인 범죄가 얼마나 많은데 그 일들에 대해서는 공식사과도 없는 새끼들이. 미군철수해도 충분히 우리국력만으로 북한을 상대할 수 있다. 저놈들은 대한민국이 아직도 50년대 초반 미군한테 기브 미 초콜렛 하던 그런나라로 보는 놈들이다. 그리고 너네가 언제 우리나라차를 애용했다고 이제와서 불매운동이냐? 하여간 미국이란 나라는 더러운 혼합 인종이 섞여사는 망조인 나라다
Crazy Yankee bastards. Bastards who have never officially apologized for the many crimes of US soldiers in our country. Even if US troops are withdrawn, we have enough military strength to deal with the North Koreans on our own. Those bastards think we’re still the Korea of the early 1950s who begged “Give me chocolate” to US soldiers. And what, you loved our cars, now you’re going to boycott them? Anyway, the United States is a declining nation inhabited by a dirty mongrel race.
So far, 94 netizens agreed with that statement, and 101 opposed it.
See, two can play at this game!
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{ 289 comments… read them below or add one }
What else would you expect from a country with such an amateur news media system? They go to great lengths to find fuel for their fire and the term “Fact Checking” isn’t even in their dictionary. I’m actually surprised it took them this long to bring it up.
I say boycott all Korean goods until they grow up and start acting like a mature democracy and develop some common sense. I was going to buy a Pavv LCD TV but now I’m getting a Sony instead.
I made my contribution.
Cool, will it have a built in tuner? Sony products are pretty neat. Since this ridiculous beef thing sprung up, I have stopped eating kimchee and drinking soju.
Korea be dammed, Japanese kimuchi and shoju is much tastier anyway.
Typical. Korean news media always selectively pick up “netizen ID *** says ..” all the time.
They even quote junks from 2channel, and talk as if that is the most Japanese think.
I like this one
“I say boycott all Korean goods until they grow up and start acting like a mature democracy and develop some common sense”
Go on, spank that bad, bad country.
You sound like my mum? I’d never thought of her as a dick before, though.
like i said many posts ago….
bring it on my blood brothers.
let’s see who suffers most if there is a trade war.
what a bunch of hypocrites. south korea will cave in soooo fast it won’t even be funny.
maybe even worse that ‘ice-t’.
many years ago…late 80’s/early 90’s, ice t came out with this album and there was a song that said basically ‘f*ck the police’.
of course there was soo much controversy, etc. etc….and ice t was on this premise that ‘hey man, that’s the way it is in the hood….blah blah blah….i’ll never cave in to all the pressure about changing the lyrics blah, blah, blah……’
well, a lot of time warner board members were pissed about it.
but….they were willing to honor the 1st amendment and all. but they specifically sent the message to ice t……’they’re gonna let the album be produced due to 1st amendment….but they’re pissed and they will blackball you with your tv/movie career.’
next thing you know….ice-t pulls all the original copies and replaces them with more ‘politically correct’ lyrics.
…….and the end result is ice-t is still on law and order.
in fact….my new nickname for south korea…..ice-t.
just like my co-worker nicknamed a co-worker who recently hasn’t shown up more than 4 actual working days in the past 6 weeks, ‘paul pierce.’
it’s because our co-worker is faking an injury.
I love all the broken English, with obvious Korean nuances, in the comments section.
Best quotes:
“Sometimes U.S. people looks like a despotic.” (hahah..reminds me of, “You look a like a man”)
“Those who post anti-South Korea statements over this issue are really America-haters because they hate the democracy.” (See! And who said Koreans are capable of critical reasoning??)
Another hilarious aspect of the comments are the posters who begin their comment by saying they’re American, and then proceed to use their best Manglish. For example:
epictetu wrote:
“My felow American citizens! It’s a waste of time talking about ban on Korean Cars regarding this issue because the issue is nothing to do with anti-Americanism….Second, Lee’s government gave in the countrie’s own quarantine right….In a summary, these are the 3 issues that has caused this enormous rage, which I think righteous,” (I’ll stop there, though it gets worse)
What’s the most interseting aspect about the comments (after the obvious flood of Korean netizens who read the Yonhap article), is that the Korean commenters seem to really fear a backlash against Korean imports, as they mention numerous times.
Oh yeah, I see the notorious “Koreans eat dogs” comments have appeared. Yet at least those comments are true…
James, you are forgetting Ice Cube and NWA. Also, don’t forget Ice Cube’s song, “Black Korea”.
“Since this ridiculous beef thing sprung up, I have stopped eating kimchee and drinking soju. Korea be dammed, Japanese kimuchi and shoju is much tastier anyway.”
Swlee… nice..good call. I enjoyed that one.
Thankyou for the ice tea story, it was very illuminating. But then I read this:
“just like my co-worker nicknamed a co-worker who recently hasn’t shown up more than 4 actual working days in the past 6 weeks, ‘paul pierce.’
Yo, what the fuck is a six year old doing with a job? You should be in school boy, and tell you mother to either ask for her job back at the diner or get back together with your dad Jake, seems hes doing a fine job at the panel beaters. And don’t forget to feed your brother Bill on the way out.
James:
“just like my co-worker nicknamed a co-worker who recently hasn’t shown up more than 4 actual working days in the past 6 weeks, ‘paul pierce.’
it’s because our co-worker is faking an injury.”
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA…awesome
Hey, at least the news media here is even handed. Not just anything written in Korea on the internet is news without fact checking. Anything at all on the internet is news. That’s unbiased reporting!
I just checked the recent comments, and it appears Koreans are flooding the board with anti-US comments (you can tell which ones by the level on English).
For the rest of my life, whenever I hear the word ‘hypocrisy’ this will pop into mind.
It defies reason.
No commentary is really needed. I just gotta step back and say, “Wow!”
If only foreigners could sign up Korean websites without faxing things to the webmaster in triplicate. (Learned from my futile attempt to get a Cyworld account)
I think it’s funny when they put the net nicknames.
Could you imagine:
“Fuck_machine69″ said “Korea is well within its rights to re-negotiate”
Or
“Brad_ Pitts_ Bitch” said “US should remove all troops from SK NOW!”
Slightly off topic but oh well…
Korean nutizens are *gasp* using wiki to slander LMB.
http://english.donga.com/srv/s.....8061280448
Wiki unsurprisingly placed an editing ban on the article. The conclusion of the linked article fucking brilliant!
“The measure is a side effect of the collective intelligence among Korean Internet users.”
#7 Insung, the grammatical errors you made in your comment prove to me that you are North Korean. Just because someone doesn’t grasp English, does not mean they are not American.
This is from the NYTimes piece titled: What Corporate America Can’t Build: A Sentence.
“A recent survey of 120 American corporations reached a similar conclusion. The study, by the National Commission on Writing, a panel established by the College Board, concluded that a third of employees in the nation’s blue-chip companies wrote poorly and that businesses were spending as much as $3.1 billion annually on remedial training.”
YOO N0W GO H8T3R!
The comments with Koreanisms could also be coming from Korean-Americans that sympathize with the protesters.
#16
You obviously missed the whole point. I think it has been established the commentors were Korean, not American.
Oh, and point out the errors, with examples (even though it was hastily written, it is still grammatically correct.)
The irrelevant citation was also a nice touch. Way to go, douchebag.
OH SHIT! PWNED!!! EPIC FAILS!! LULZ!!!
Looks like a slight dig from the met, but there is no bad publicity right?
from wapost commments,
while http://www.rjkoehler.com is a less intellectual blog about Korea
“Those who post anti-South Korea statements over this issue are really America-haters because they hate the democracy.” (See! And who said Koreans are NOT capable of critical reasoning??)
hahahahaha….Still a douche my friend. I saw that I forgot the NOT, but rather than write a correction comment, I chose to leave it as is. Oh, and it is still grammatically correct without the NOT.
MAJOR PWNNAGE!!!!
Try again…
I know you have your Strunk and White “Elements of Style” manual out……keep trying.
I just cannot understand why Americans are so confident of their beef.
The cows are not tested free of BSE before consumption. Downer cows are routinely processed into meat. What is most amazing is that they believe eating BSE contaminated beef would not cause CJD or vCJD.
They believe the risk is very low because only 163 people died of vCJD in the UK where 180,000 BSE cows are found. But who knows. There may be a lot of people who actually died of vCJD but not recognized as such. There are a lot of people suffering dementia in the US. For most of them, the cause is unknown. Who knows how many of them are caused by prions of BSE cows.
It takes more than 10 years for the diseases to develop into some symptom from infection. In due course, we see the results of human experiment in North America. I would not be suppressed if USA were wiped out from the earth.
#21
“I would not be suppressed if USA were wiped out from the earth.”
You sir, are clearly not ’suppressed’”.
Zainichi perhaps?
“There are a lot of people suffering dementia in the US.”
Understatement of the year.
If mad cows from the US are imported to Korea maybe we will become crazy like America and vote for Bush and start wars we can’t win or even finish.
Korean animosity toward the US works somewhat as a hindrance to their animosity toward Japan. Without the US troops in Korea, their hatred of Japan will be exacerbated beyond our imagination. The todays scale of the candlelight vigil would be nothing if the Japanese priminister utters a word or two about Dokdo. Americans, please be patient and never withdraw your troops from Korea.
“If mad cows from the US are imported to Korea maybe we will become crazy like America and vote for Bush and start wars we can’t win or even finish.”
Or maybe you’ll all dress like girls and hold hands while you walk down the street together. Wait, that already happened.
Hey J, whoa J. Just substitute “Americans” with “Koreans”. You have alot more reason to worry.
Warning… minor thread-jack follows
@6
Not to bust your balls or anything, but Paul Pierce just might be one of the toughest athletes of all time.
From Bill Simmons, the sports guy.
“1. Before the 2000-01 season, Pierce was stabbed 11 times at a Boston nightclub, suffered a collapsed lung and nearly bled to death while staggering to the hospital. Less than two weeks later, he played in Boston’s first exhibition game. If the same thing had happened to Vince Carter, he would still be on the injured list seven years later.
2. During the 2002-03 season, Pierce got slammed face-first to the floor by Amare Stoudemire, breaking his two front teeth. Thirty minutes later, he was back playing with a mouthpiece. The following day, he underwent emergency dental surgery for seven hours. The day after that, he played against Portland with a mouthpiece and ended up hitting the game-winner.”
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn.....ons/080611
The guy fell down, heard his knee pop, felt some pain and got scared. Can we cut him some slack?
#1 Maekchu is right. However, both Koreans and Westerners will call him a reactionary and a racist.
The reality is the opposite. Only someone with a seriously racist superiority complex would allow themselves to be used over and over again and not do anything about it.
I’ll give Koreans credit. THey have a much better understanding of human nature than Westerners.
Look at SWLee’s comments. Apparently, it is okay for Koreans to protest and boycott, but not Americans. Clearly, he has a well-developed inferiority complex. Also, why is it okay for everyone else to protest and fight for something they beleive in except white people?
If I believe in something, why does being white preclude me from fighting for it? Ask yourselves that question.
we all know the expat is an expert liar. let’s look at one of most sophisticated lies, shall we?
‘no american has gotten mcd.’
see, folks, that’s true. no american has gotten mcd. but what the sly lil expat leaves out is this is this:
‘yet and that we know of.’
btw, koreans, the next time excee gets all huffy puffy screaming at the top of his lungs about how koreans hate americans while his korean girlfriend is by his side, ask him this question:
‘why is it important to you personally that we eat american beef?’
he won’t give you a truthful answer so i will! here’s excee’s answer if he actually told the truth for a change:
‘i’m an emotional nationalist that i publicly describe as patriotism. i believe my country is right even when it is wrong. my country comes first!’
psst, don’t tell em pawi told you. they may blow a gasket!
ps how do you guys like avatars?
Cuz you’ll automatically win, and that’s just not fair.
james:
Regarding Ice-T – that was back in 91. I was a freshman in college and ICE-T was with the rock band ‘Bodycount’ HE did NOT change the lyrics, but instead replaced the song ‘cop killa’ with ‘Freedom of Speech’ over the whole controversy. ‘F*ck the Police’ was NWA.
Although I agree – he caved under pressure – but the pressure was not from his record label as I remember.
Since then you say he was ‘blackballed’ – since 2000 he has had a VERY successful TV career on ‘Law and Order SVU’ – ironically – as a cop.
Left my comment. I’ve been boycotting Korean goods for awhile now, anyway. I will not help that ignorance gain riches.
That whole comment roll is turning ugly…
To my fellow Koreans. Stop it. This beef issue isn’t worth making yourselves look foolish and stupid to the rest of the universe. It isn’t worth toppling your government THAT YOU YOURSELF ELECTED a few months ago… It isn’t worth antagonizing your few powerful allies. Seriously. Korea needs powerful allies it always has since the Unified Silla period. If not America, then who? China? You guys trust the usurpers of Koguryo? The Japanese? The Russians? Yeah right.
Koreans, think with you minds, not with your tempers.
I think it would be interesting if they could get an accurate survey result from the protesters on one simple question:
Did you vote.
Anyways, they are trying to lynch him for doing what he campaigned about – getting the economy in order. Quite odd.
Yes, that, or perhaps for the same reason it’s important to Koreans that Americans buy Korean cars and consumer electronics. Most people fail to take very well having their countries’ major export items shut out of important overseas markets, I’m afraid.
Someone even impersonated me over on the WP comments section. I guess impersonation is some form of flattery. I guess.
Anyway, the comments written over there by “TheMetropolitician” aren’t mine. Just a point of clarification.
That WP board is hilarious. The Korean (-American?) who doesn’t use plurals and can’t use countables/uncountables keeps referring to America as “our country” and “us.”
“Why can’t we just leave Korean alone?”
The reference to the American War of Independence against “the motherland” was funny, too.
marm, i don’t mean this with any barbs but i think it’s kind of sad that one of our primary exports is beef. what’s happening to america?
ps expat, sorry for being so mysterious with my avatars. i know using chinese characters puts you at a disadvantage but then, you might actually learn something!
J, in case you didn’t understand my comment, look at it this way. The US inspects, I believe, one in ten cows. In the view of the body which most countries doing business in this world and to the scientific community, this is an adaquate sampling to discern outbreaks. If it is not adaquate for you then so be it.
Now what does that governing body say about Korea? Nothing! Because Korea does not test or regulate its herds, period. You SPECULATE as to how many people in America who suffer from unattributable dementia are actually exposed to mad cow. There’s nobody in Korea with dementia? How many instances of mad cow exposure exist in Korea? By your own logic we have no idea!
I agree with Natto. The American troops are stationed in Korea for more than just military purposes.
Americans have to treat the Koreans like 5 year olds who whines all day because a thunderstorm prevented a planned trip to Disneyland. They just don’t know any better.
from korean wiki on banning changes to 2mb entry:
priceless. couldn’t have said it better myself.
What really needs to be done is to revoke and discontinue the issue of all US tourist, business, and education visas to Korean citizens, not as punishment but as a moral obligation to keep our genetically susceptible Han brothers and sisters from being exposed to US beef and the ravages of mad cow disease.
I am Chinese and it seems like the Koreans hate everyone. I know Japan is number one on the list but I wonder how China compares with the US. I don’t recall S. Koreans having this 10K plus demonstrations against China even with the Korean history issue.
Also S.Korea is the number one source of derisive posts on Chinese BBS. After the Seoul torch incident there is a post that circulated in China that 80% of S.Koreans wants to fight a war with China to revenge for PLA’s brief occupation of Seoul. There are numerous translation of Korean posts on Sichuan Earthquake and of course various posts claiming that the S.Koreans claim that the Chinese Priemer Wen Jiabao has Korean heritage and the Panda orginated in Korea…
From a Chinese perspective I think this is an excess in democracy and freedom of speech(in terms of unscientific rumors). Especially with the internet and a tendency for group think, it is easy to rile up a mob. Here I actually appreciate some of Internet Big Brother in China. There were several false rumors spread online claiming certain officials knew about the Earthquake or if the Communists were more competent they can predict earthquakes like the west. Those people were found, not sentenced to harsh terms but I think a week’s detention in jail.
Maddlew, in the US, they tests only 110 cows out of 100,000 cows processed everyday.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/o.....view_x.htm
The sample size is way too small. They are doing the test, so as not to find BSE cows. The sampling ratio is 1 in 1000, that means by the time one BSE cow is found, 999 BSE cows have been distributed in the market.
I am not comparing Korea with America. I am surprised (sorry, not suppressed) by the fact that Americans do not care at all about their safety of their own food.
In Japan, you cannot find beef labeled “US beef” at supermarkets, because no consumer would buy such a thing. McDonalds in Japan proudly advertises, “We do not use any US beef.” Japan does import a lot of US beef that is mainly used for sausages. There are a lot of Japanese who stopped eating sausages.
There was a warning. Some people listened to it and were saved. Others did not and we will see the result.
i would like to tell the korean they dont have to go trolling all over the internet to find americans that talk shit about them
hell start right here at the marmots!!!
Wow. The WAPO is starting to look like a battle ground between US news bloggers and Korean “Naver”/”Daum” blogging “netizens”! I’ve always wondered what would happen if these 2 groups went 1 on 1. Maybe someone can host a real boxing match between the two as well! One of the Korean bloggers there wrote: ” Just put your butt on the chair and watch TV eating pop-corns like usual American and respect Korean people who are protesting for Democracycorns like usual American”. I think I’ll do just that if they can get a boxing match going on!
Ooh, cool! Comments about comments. Can I join?
J,
In Japan, Yoshinoya proudly advertises they use US beef because “it taste better no other beef can beat”. And I ate 牛丼 at Yoshinoya a few days ago.
J,
Just have a few questions for you about your statistics. You say that the sampling ratio is 1/1000. What is the age breakdown of those 1000 cows? Is that of the entire cattle population or is that just the cows deemed of higher risk? If that figure included cows of under 30 months, then your (already absurd) conclusion is way off base.
Just to clarify, if that statistic is over the total head of cattle – it is a completely meaningless statistic. It’s only use would be to mislead people and be used for political purposes.
If, on the other hand, it is a statistic showing how many cows are tested from the deemed high risk category, then it might be worth looking at.
Furthermore, the article you linked fallaciously claims that the “game is rigged”. Have you even considered the potential ramifications of non-standardized and controlled testing?
Didn’t think so.
“There was a warning. Some people listened to it and were saved. Others did not and we will see the result.”
“ATLANTA, December 17, 2007—A new American Cancer Society report estimates that there will be over 12 million new cancer cases and 7.6 million cancer deaths (about 20,000 cancer deaths a day) worldwide in 2007….This cancer burden is also increasing as people in the developing countries adopt western lifestyles such as cigarette smoking, higher consumption of saturated fat and calorie-dense foods, and reduced physical activity.”
Koreans smoke.
Koreans eat pork fat.
Koreans eat rice.
Koreans love computers.
Koreans use cell phones.
Koreans generally ignore traffic law.
“62,403 annual average cancer deaths..” in Korea? Check it out yourselves.
“Only five human deaths resulting from variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease (vCJD), believed to be the human form of BSE, were reported worldwide in 2005. All of them were in the United Kingdom – the country most affected by the disease – where nine deaths were registered in 2004 and 18 in 2003.”
As you can see the average Korean is in more danger from WHAT THEY ALREADY DO than from Mad Cow Beef.
But a logical look at facts is boring. Lets all go out and crush, kill, destroy. We’re human. It’s what we do best.
I am surprised that Koreans aren’t more concerned about what they are already eating.
#45 x,
Ouch! the same exact thing is happening in Japan for years!
“Wen Jiabao has Korean heritage” That’s one of those Korean obsessions.
“Panda orginated in Korea” It’s one of those “Uriginal“.
I don’t agree with most of what Chinese government is doing, but I feel ya.
Another thing J, Korean beef farmers use the very same methods of feeding their cattle as the US. In fact, they use steroids that have been banned in the US due to the dangers they pose to consumers.
You ever wonder why Korean cattle look so much like American. Koreans imported American cattle and their bloodline has pretty well permeated the entire cattle industry here. You say you don’t want to eat American beef but you’re more than likely already doing it. Bon Apetite!
#40, Pawi,
“ps expat, sorry for being so mysterious with my avatars. i know using chinese characters puts you at a disadvantage but then, you might actually learn something!”
That’s a bit rich coming from someone who can’t speak English.
Toru, Yoshinoya is about the only exception. And at Yoshinoya, on April 4, 2008, they found prohibited parts of cows in the processed meat shipped by US beef producers, which was luckily not used.
Look at hamburger chains in Japan.
McDonalds, No US Beef.
MOS Burger, No US Beef.
Lotteria, No US Beef.
Wendy’s, No US Beef. (That Wendy’s)
The Goat, I do not know how they conduct their tests. Read the news article I linked. Japan found many BSE cows from low risk category thanks to its exhaustive testing. Of the 21 BSE cows found in Japan, only 4 were downer cows. 2 were younger than 30 months. If your computer can read Japanese, check this.
http://www.mhlw.go.jp/houdou/0110/h1018-6.html
Gomdree, I am not interested in what Koreans care. I am interested in what Americans do not care.
#31,
“we all know the expat is an expert liar.”
You weren’t born in the US, right? Doesn’t that make you a self-loathing hypocrite?
“Lotteria, No US Beef.”
Well, hardly any beef at all.
“Wen Jiabao has Korean heritage” That’s one of those Korean obsessions.“Panda orginated in Korea” It’s one of those “Uriginal“
first i’ve heard these things, but so what? you saying that because a korean of a few koreans say this i say that too because i’m korean? c’mon. and toru, the site you linked for the panda thing was a joke. you can do better than that.
btw, you mean to say wen jiao has korean blood is anti chinese? how? who really is the racist here? and i love how an expat actually supported a chinese guy who supported locking up those who engage in free speech. classy.
‘
” I am surprised (sorry, not suppressed) by the fact that Americans do not care at all about their safety of their own food.”
Japanese can be foolishly illogical, too.
Don’t overlook, folks, the fact that the initial beef bans by the mercantilist states if NE Asia were/are as much driven by protectionism as by health concerns.
states OF NE Asia, sorry
slim, how do you like my new grav? go run to your wife and ask her what it means, that is, if she can read chinese.
Anytime your gravatar shows up it means that a comment of yours will accompany it — a development that by definition, automatically diminishes the integrity of the Marmot’s Hole and the Internet at large, surely as a child’s turd fouls a swimming pool.
I don’t make jokes about your inflatable love doll, pawi, (although word is she was MADE IN JAPAN) so please leave my significant other out of this.
Naver.com is a popular site for the under 18 and somewhat with the 20’s age bracket. Read those condescending words they have posted there. Its how you talk to kids.
This is whats happening in Korea, some of you are not getting it.
The real problem here are the confucian/liberals. To an extent its mostly the ones who have esteem issues, however they are a product of the liberal education system.
The sheer size of the protests may fool you but most do not care one way or the other about US beef. What you are seeing is a mispresentation of the issue. Most of these protestors are one of 3 groups. Children, emotionally abused married women, men at the bottom of the social ladder who are most likely farmers or ex-farmers with no education or skills.
Before the liberals got into power we were consuming a ton of US beef no one gave a shit.
Alot of you Americans are bitching about this all wrong and I’m not even sure what you are expecting if anything.
You are all blaming them for being stupid, and they are being stupid. As a Korean its blatantly obvious.
These protestors are brainwashed.
They are incapable of independent thought.
They are told what to think.
They have no self-esteem while at the same time craving it like a crackhead.
They have no idea what self-esteem is.
They will do whatever they are told.
People who cannot think for themselves will never have self-esteem.
Whats my point? Read the fucking title. Explain to me what happens when you tell a kid or an emotionally abused women that the Americans are saying “mean things”. Mind you they cannot think for themselves, although they will get angry. Enter the liberals. “Follow us and we’ll save you”.
Honestly does any grown person who is relatively normal give a shit about someone saying “mean things”?
What the liberals want everyone to think is that the whole country believes this nonsense. The more you act like the country does, the more you help the communists/confucians/liberals.
slim, it seems you are blinded by your own view and cannot see straight. If protectionism were the motive, why would Japanese supermarkets and hamburger shops do not sell US beef and sell Australian beef instead?
By the way, do you think your photo cool?
#61
“Don’t overlook, folks, the fact that the initial beef bans by the mercantilist states if NE Asia were/are as much driven by protectionism as by health concerns.”
But Japan imports tons from Australia and Brazil instead…
We may be a diehard mercantilist,but in case of beef,Japan is faily free thanks to the trade war with Washington in the 80’s.
We’ll talk about FTA with the U.S when we think it’s appropriate.
If you need a motivator as to why you should hate the liberals, take Pawi. He wins.
Oh really?
Have you already forgotten the time I corrected your misuse of Chinese characters?
I’d say you had the disadvantage then, li’l kyopo.
Did you learn something?
LOL
pawikirogi,
I mealy pointed that urls just because they are in English. It is true that the same thing is happening in Japan.
And as for the Sichuan Earthquake, I personally know a few Korean said on the web that the it was a Heaven’s punishment. And also personally know MANY Koreans(kids mostly) have said on the web that A-bombs and Earthquakes in Japan were Heaven’s punishments etc etc. When I first saw that a few years ago, I got pissed. But as I got to know more about Koreans, I got used to that and now it feels like a it’s a Korean way of saying hello to me.
Karma is a bitch. Go cry about it elsewhere.
‘I don’t make jokes about your inflatable love doll, pawi, (although word is she was MADE IN JAPAN) so please leave my significant other out of this.’
AHA!!!!!!! now i understand! i got ya, slim. you’ve just defined yourself. and btw, your wife would have no trouble understanding the characters. oh, love doll? classy, slim, just classy.
so you hate korea, now, i unnerstan, yes siree bob, now, aiz unnerstand! you dismissed.
@72: eat beef and die, toxic kyopo.
“…I got used to that and now it feels like a it’s a Korean way of saying hello to me.”
Somehow it feels like there is a lot wisdom contained in that comment.
Back to boycotting Korean products. I lived in Korea for years and was able to do it there, except for some food items and TP. I bought nothing that’s value-added.
Life goes on just fine without Korean products.
‘I got used to that and now it feels like a it’s a Korean way of saying hello to me.’ toru
that’s not the way i would say hello to you. in fact, if we met face to face, i wouldn’t dare bring up such things. toru, there’s some japanese guy who posts vids on youtube with subjects like how often koreans bathe. should i see him as japan? c’mon, so what if you can find some koreans that say this or that? you find that wherever you go. look at sharon.
I hope everyone stop with the Korean American/Gyopo bashings. There are plenty of us who don’t like what’s happening in Korea and have been critical. I’m talking about Won Joon Choe, Mizar5, James, Wangkon, etc.
I welcome Yonhap’s article even if it’s not scientifically factual story. I think it’s a good thing sometimes to let Koreans in Korea have a look at what other nationalities are saying to get a totally different perspective. Koreans don’t get a variety of opinions other than what they are told from a homogeneous media and education. It’s a good for Koreans to realize the consequences of anti Americanism can lead to anti Koreanism.
Chosun also had this article today:
http://blogreporter.chosun.com.....;curPage=0
It says “one foreigner’s blog” is getting lots of hits. I’m guessing it’s this one because I recognize one of my posts that I posted here.
I’m aware of Japan’s imports of other beef. I still see agricultural protectionism in the way of limiting the flow as a key, although not the primary, motive. Japan still has some of the most ingenious and extensive non-tariff barriers in the wealthy world, but who am I to complain if the Japanese consumer does not?
I have no stake in the US beef trade and in fact probably eat more venison than beef in a given year, for cholesterol reasons.
It troubles me, though, to see anyone from Japan or anywhere I hold to higher standards parroting Korean logic and disinformation. (And in your case, you claimed that Americans don’t care at all about food safety at the very time when the dominant US news headlines were about the tomato salmonella scare that decimated that industry. That was plain ridiculous.)
My grav picture is a sarcastic reply to a certain Korean racist who asserted (back in about 2003) that all whites who commented here lived in trailers.
“And as for the Sichuan Earthquake, I personally know a few Korean said on the web that the it was a Heaven’s punishment.”
Oh please, Chinese and Japanese are in no position to lecture the Koreans for netiqutte. When the Seoul Treasure #1 burned down and the oil spill happened in south coast of Korea, the Chinese netizens were laughing and having a field day. When the Sichuan quake happened, Japanese netizens were just as vile as some of the Korean ones.
pawikirogi,
I didn’t know that. I won’t apologize for it because I didn’t do it. But I feel little ashamed to hear that.
#19-I noticed Met’s indiscretion as well in the said article.
One could argue he is talking about the posters though, not the site…well I guess that means us
A bit self-agrandizing at the expense of the “not so gifted”
We are not worthy.
Stopped visiting his site, and reading his posts a long time ago. I was wearing out my scroll button.
Well, it’s a typical development that all this Krazy Kow bizness is devolving into major farce….
Thanks to Toru I found this link to a photo of a Korean gal flipping the bird (with both hands!) to the police that’s inexplicably hot:
http://koreasparkling.files.wo.....wimage.jpg
Despite the media portraying this as some massive uprising it’s just the usual “liberal” faction of Korean politicians leading a minority by demagoguery.
cm,
Vast majority of Japanese expressed sadness on the web immediately after Sichuan quake occurred and the gate burned down. I know it because I was so surprised. I can show you some logs.
@78: Is pawi/stacked/swlee the rule or the exception?
Is wangkon the rule or the exception?
You yourself, cm, just made a huge 180-degree turn after the beef issue; before you were indistinguishable from pawi.
I was “indistinguishable from pawi”??
Oh gee.. thanks a lot.
slim,
“Japan still has some of the most ingenious and extensive non-tariff barriers in the wealthy world, but who am I to complain if the Japanese consumer does not?”
Just name some of the barriers, if you can. I am afraid you are just parroting American Camber of Commerce. I give these words for you.
“These protestors are brainwashed.
They are incapable of independent thought.
They are told what to think.
They have no self-esteem while at the same time craving it like a crackhead.
They have no idea what self-esteem is.
They will do whatever they are told.”
oops just read # 38. I take back all but the last two sentences of my last post
“Vast majority of Japanese expressed sadness on the web”
And I can show you many vile ones. What does that prove? Same thing applies to Japan, when the national treasury burned down and the oil spill happened, there were also many vile Japanese comments on the net mixed in with some sympathy. The Youtubes are full of anti Korean videos made by Japanese netizens. Don’t try to make look like internet trollings as strictly Korean phenomenon.
“before you were indistinguishable from pawi.”
I think that’s a bit harsh. cm stayed polite and, in my recollection, avoided comments that could be easily seen as pure hypocrisy.
I bet that on a topic that didn’t involve Korea (or Japan or the US or some combo of the three) pawi could probably be logical, unemotional and able to discern fact from cowflop.
Yeah, I’d say it’s this blog — here’s the post on the guy’s site, with an image of the blog in question:
http://www.ukopia.com/newsAmer.....uid=110817
#89 cm,
And it will be followed by a whole bunch of Chinese made anti-South Korea vids as Chinese realize what Korean’s been saying about Chinese. I promise.
#92, toru, do a search on youtubes and many, if not most of the anti-Chinese videos are Japanese made.
#93 cm,
Not really, but I won’t be surprised to see if any of it because I’m, in a way, also anti-Chinese government aka CPC.
Now you ARE parroting Korean logic. I’m not going into 2CH territory with you, J, and you don’t seem to have the ability to go beyond namecalling.
EVERY country’s Chamber of Commerce has complaints about Japan – and I am sure Japan has complaints of its own about others. These have to be weighed on their merits, not simply dismissed by the nationality of those making the complaints.
I was a captive CONSUMER in Japan for 8 years and I know the difference between what things cost in Japan and elsewhere and what lies behind that. (I also know that the differential has narrowed in many areas, but it does seem that economic liberalization has stalled) I know why Japanese are famously avid shoppers overseas.
Mercantilism has largely worked for Japan, and there are many in the West who envy that approach more than they resent it. But it’s not politically doable in more open economies and it is definitely dangerous for the world economy.
“Yeah, I’d say it’s this blog — here’s the post on the guy’s site, with an image of the blog in question:
http://www.ukopia.com/newsAmer…..uid=110817”
Yeap. There is Wangkon, Maekchu, Sonagi.
If any Koreans reading this, please realize it’s not just Americans who are making comments. Many non Americans are also baffled and displeased with what’s going on with the mass hysteria based on non facts. Holding of candle lights has lost all its meanings and Koreans are not being looked upon very highly these days by the foreign residents in Korea (with very few exceptions like the Misuda New Zealand girl).
#46, a brief math lesson.
If they test 1 out of a 1000 cows, and find an infected cow, it certainly doesn’t mean 999 infected cows slipped by them ( this supposes the entire sample was infected).
I’ll skinny it down for you.
Say they test 1 out of 1000, and 999 of these tests are negative “by the time” they get a positive, the sample size represented is 1000 x 1000 = 1,000,000 with one positive, giving a ratio of one in a million.
This doesn’t mean the sampling ratio is sufficient or insufficient.
If they tested one million cows and found that 1 was infected, then testing 1 out of 1000 cows gives them 1000 chances out of a million ( 1:1000 chance) to find the infected cow.
If they don’t find an infected cow it could possibly mean that there were no infected cows in the sample.
Now lets say the infected cow slips through undetected. If it is processed properly, then it still poses no health risk to the consumer.
Lets say it is processed improperly and a portion ( imagine one tenth )of it poses a health risk.
Thats 1/10 of the 1/1,000,000 or 1/10,000,000 of the beef product of this sample size that poses a risk.
Ok now these cows ( our 1,000,000 sample size ) are distributed around America and other non-hysterical countries in the world, lets say for arguement sake, so that 100,000,000 million people have access.
What do you think the chances are that you happen to be the 1 in 100,000,000 who gets the 1/10,000,000 infected beef product?
Yes I am pulling the numbers out of my ass, but really, why not walk around wearing a hard hat in case a turtle falls out of the sky and smacks you in the head.
Can’t be too carefull, right ?
Its times like these when people long for a simpler times. Where is Apolo Ohno when you need him?
Perhaps a distraction for the beef issue, lets have him endorse Samsung phones. Wait, maybe not.
Lets get more of the Misuda women to tell us their intellectual opinions on US beef. Perhaps if they tried some US beef, they might give up prostituting themselves for the Korean male entertainment industry.
Well if nutz want to fight it out on the blog at least someone might have a chance to see the other side.
However, I wonder how many of you have given up talking with Koreans about anything intellectual. The cognitive dissonance seems too great. Whats the point in fighting with them about anything. If its on MBC it must be truth. In fact is that the new mantra said at temples nation wide, there is no truth but PD diary, there is no truth but PD diary,
I mean when Koreans see everything through highly tinted nationalistic lenses, seem to lack any critical reasoning skills, and are constantly looking for anything that might be perceived as a looking down on them,
how does one talk about anything intellectual with them? Fan death is brought up constantly as an example of the sheer stupidity that lives in the group think of the collective conscious of south korea. Anyone still talking with Koreans about the beef issue?
Interesting article on NYT:
Questions on U.S. Beef Remain
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06.....amp;st=nyt
I think Korean demonstrators are over doing it, but questions do linger, it seems like.
I kind of want to mention the extensive US farm subsidies that are probably snuffing out the last viable export industry from some developing countries…check out “Doha round”…so I wouldn’t exactly call it “free trade”. Don’t know if beef is subsidized, though.
#87 J
“I give these words for you”
“These protestors are brainwashed.
They are incapable of independent thought.
They are told what to think.
They have no self-esteem while at the same time craving it like a
crackhead.
They have no idea what self-esteem is.
They will do whatever they are told.”
Regrettably these were all true in Japan until early 1970s and are still true to lesser extent. I think Korean is 30 years behind Japan in this respect. The Japanese leftists were under the great influence of Soviet, China and North Korea. Are you familiar with the anti-Japan/US security treaty demonstrations and the student movement in the 70s ?
Regarding the non-tariff barriers slim referred to, we still have many although the majority are not intentional but just red-tape. If you are in doubt, check on the tax rates on some farm products.
#94 Shoot, I must be getting really tired.
“I haven’t seen much yet, but I won’t be surprised to see those videos because I’m, in a way, also anti-Chinese government aka CPC.” And additionaly I’m anti-Korean-hysteric-irrational- accusations about Japan/any countries/anything.
Anyway, I find those videos(generally speaking) far more informative than the expats here. No offense, but true. If you call a video showing true things about China or Korea as “anti-” then so be it.
Regarding the non-tariff barriers slim referred to, we still have many although the majority are not intentional but just red-tape. If you are in doubt, check on the tax rates on some farm products.
“Red tape” is what you’d normally call a non-tariff barrier…and “tax” would be a tariff barrier.
“If you call a video showing true things about China or Korea as “anti-” then so be it.”
Toru, most of the anti Korean or anti Chinese videos made by Japanese are not even political. They either consist of showing some Chinese female taking a dump in a river, or showing Japanese of Korean ancestry committing crimes in Japan. Most of it is based both on racism and politics.
Anyway, I don’t buy your claims that Japanese netizens are somehow clean and saintly than any other brand of Asian internet nationalism and racism.
That’s my last word on this, since this has nothing to do with this topic.
Does anyone have suggestions for travel to North Korea? I’m visiting Pyongyang on business next month and I would like to take some time alone wandering the city. Will this be possible? Any car rentals in Pyongyang? My friend Matt was there last month and he caught sight of a brand new mini cooper at a Pyongyang street intersection: http://kr.youtube.com/watch?v=6YVIBawHaQY
I’m a free trader. Almost religiously. But in this case, I’m reminded of Ari Gold’s words to Josh Weinstein. In your (Korea’s) case, I’m going to make an exception.
(1:22) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKNV5foRiL4
It is time to play hardball. A nation of irrational “pride” deserves nothing less.
@#33….sorry a re-thread jack.
thanks for the clarification of the actual names of the songs, etc. as i guess i should have googled some stuff before posting, but i was just sooo tired.
anyways, yes, it was under the pressure of his record label…..time warner.
time warner is a huge entertainment conglomerate that has huge tentacles across all of hollywood and new york.
Is that something you search for or just lucky enough to stumble upon it?
Anyway, I can’t imagine a Japanese woman doing that in a river. On a guy certainly, cuz that’s a Prada bag. But not in a river.
#103 cm,
“I don’t buy your claims that Japanese netizens are somehow clean and saintly”
I’ve never said that. Why do you make up such things?
Slim and Natto make some good points, in comparison and contrast of Japan and Korea. The left in Japan was influential in older days, like when they rallied to shut down expansion of the runway at Tachikawa Air Base in the 1960s. And I suspect many Japanese harbor similar beliefs and (mis?)conceptions about US beef that Koreans do, but just aren’t as expressive about it. As for Japan’s protectionism, it’s there too. I wouldn’t be surprised if that embargo law against US vehicles made from 1976 on is still in effect in Japan, not something you find in Korea, interestingly…
I just came off watching the MBC news report of the “digital democracy”. And my stomach turned, I’m about to throw up.
The gist of the report is this:
—-
The report took pot shots at “traditional mediums” (showing shots of Chosun Ilbo, Dongah Ilbo, and Joongang Ilbo) as being in trouble because Koreans have now grown up and they don’t pay any attention to those medias anymore. The traditional media that have being telling Koreans what to do, that have “experts” who often don’t know what they’re talking about.
The new generation media now consists of grass roots private reporters with cameras and videos that report the truth from the ground up. Koreans can now make up their minds after reading/viewing various wide amounts of opinions from these road citizen reporters and bloggers who are doing a fantastic job reporting truth and facts.
—-
If somebody has any upset stomach pill, please give me one because I can’t help but throw up.
The conservative media is under attack for not towing the hyper nationalist line. Advertisements are being withdrawn, boycotts of those papers are running, nasty internet comments are left in their servers, and there are other clearly a mass hysterical effort to silence any opposing views or people.
Is this how true “democracy” works in Korea?
“Is that something you search for or just lucky enough to stumble upon it?”
I stumbled upon it while I was doing a search on the Seoul Torch relay on Youtubes.
“the United States is a declining nation inhabited by a dirty mongrel race.”
now they think our dogs are too dirty to eat? that’s where i, for one, draw the line!
@101 – Such current-day Japan-Korea mass comparisons sound unfair to me, when I contrast the dignified Japanese reaction to, say, the fishing school ship that was sunk near Hawaii by the US Navy sub to anything that happened (or was said to have happened) in Korea involving the US military. As we see with LMB/beef issue, facts and truth are always the first casualties in Korea-US controversies — and in the “professional” media, not just the Internet boards. I don’t sense that is ever the case with Japan — which is why I was suppressed and surprised by J’s intervention above.
In my view (and I’m happy to be updated or corrected here), Korea has not had an intellectually or politically respectable mass protest since June 1987. (Key word here is “mass”)
Place your comments on the Wash Post. Don’t let Korean “netizens” (how I hate Konglish) have the final word. There was even a Metropolitian impersonator attempting to defend Korean honor!
By the way, testing and beef safety measures in the US is accepted by the international watchdogs as adequate. The huge US beef industry cannot (and should not) test every cow. The more you study the issue, the more you realize how safe the US beef supply really is.
What the perveyors of half-truths like to do is to disseminate extreme dissenting viewpoints taken out of context, such as the downer cow video. Americans saw that in the US as well, and took immediate steps to resolve the issue.
The comments at the Wash Post are the typical disinformation and “han” arguments about the US being a “despot”.
This might be a good forum to show off the deficiencies of the Korean “protest culture” and alert Americans to Korean irrational anti-Americanism.
“Koreans can now make up their minds after reading/viewing various wide amounts of opinions from these road citizen reporters and bloggers who are doing a fantastic job reporting truth and facts.”
Scratch that reporting truth and facts part – change to jingoistic racist prejudices and mistruths.
Now I’m with you.
Let the locals have their cake and eat it too. Masturbatory volleys such as the local’s jaculate bring only hand and feet washing on themselves.
“I’d say you had the disadvantage then, li’l kyopo.”
Oh Lord, dogbert is at it again with the generalizing labels of a whole race.
How you doing, “Fat ExPat”?
In all seriousness, who cares what these colonial serfs think?
Perhaps that backwards miserable little country will wake up the next time Dai Ni Hon or maybe even some Chong Guo Ren come to town as overlords.
Those flat faced pipsqueaks are always just trying to compensate for their lack of manhood, always trying to matter, yet always failing in the saddest way possible.
Lets talk about some real news, not what bottom feeding loser Koreans think.
1. I’m not fat.
2. As I keep telling you, you hyperactive narcissist, I’m not an expat. I’m an American living in America — as opposed to you, a “paper American”.
The reason I started referring to “li’l kyopo” is your own admission that you are 5′7″, 140 lbs. LOL
Dogbert,
Um….as I’ve told you before on this blog, my heavy friend, I am qute a bit taller than 5′8″ and I am heavier than 140 pounds (unfortunately). However you have never once indicated how much above 200 you may be or what it’s like to have a waist size in the 40s.
As I have stated before, this is a part of the on-going war of propaganda. This sort of misinformation and disinformation will only grow and, unfortunately, I do not believe that Han-nara has a clue or any insight as to how to deal with this sort of subversion of democratic rule or how to really lead. They are still trying to play inter-party politics while the opposition wishes to subvert the system that rejected their leadership.
Someone has a serious reading problem with my blog (yes, I keep track of my stalkers, dogbert) if they saw anywhere that I said I was 140 pounds (I WISH I was) or that I am only 5′7″. Interesting how people see what they want to see.
BTW, dogbert, let me recommend long-distance running as a great exercise to lose that gut of yours.
@dogbert
you probably need to have robert fix his code on his site because your IP is showing that you are a canuckle.
What a sad little kyopo. I’ve never weighed more than 200# or had a 40″ waist. I hope someday you’ll stop lying, get over your own badself, find someone who accepts you for who you are, and finally settle down and find happiness.
“you probably need to have robert fix his code on his site because your IP is showing that you are a canuckle.”
Proxy servers. Flags and IP’s don’t mean much now a days.
”
Proxy servers. Flags and IP’s don’t mean much now a days.
”
hmm…..i wonder what *.co.nk IP’s are.
One of the many reasons why the US is able to continue dominateing the world economy is that many of the best and brightest in other countries end up not only studying in America but also immigrating there. The brain-drain issue is serious matter for many countries and I have yet to see a comprehensive study conducted on how massive flight of elite human capital from one country to another affects those that remain behind.
As a typical Korean American, I did very well in school, graduating from an elite US college, and am now working for a top US corporation. My story is not unique among Korean Americans. Many years ago, when I was still in high school, I asked one of my friend’s dad, who entered the US from Korea illegally in the 70s but ended up naturalized and prospering, why so many Korean Americans are so successful? And his reply made me think: “Son, the stupid and lazy are not the ones who risk it all and immigrate to a foreign land where they have start all over again. True, many of us were not part of the economic elite [he happend to be a Korean Air engineer before losing his job in a lay off], but we had grit and determination, focused on a better and brighter future and unapologetically practical. And we believe with all our hearts that America is the land of opportunity.”
Although I am not trying to say that there aren’t many people of fine character and high intelligence in Korea (I’m sure there are), I do wonder about how losing millions of their best and brightest in past decades to other countries such as the US has affected Korea’s overall national character. Certainly, the irrational emotionalism so prevelant in Korean society, and showcased in all its ugliness during these anti-US protests, makes me wonder how differently Korea may have turned out if these sons and daughters had remained in their motherland. And even today (although in smaller numbers), Korea continues to send thousands of its best and brightest to the benefit of other countries.
“In my view (and I’m happy to be updated or corrected here), Korea has not had an intellectually or politically respectable mass protest since June 1987. (Key word here is “mass”)”
I think that’s more or less accurate. Of course, I’m not speaking from a first-hand observation considering the time period.
I guess IronChefKorean has finally broken down the barrier that separated this comment thread from a typical one found in AF, Occi, or any one of them generated by K-netizens at large. Then again, this whole thread looks like a big circle-jerk party (with intermittent valid criticisms), so I guess ICK was merely a straw.
But yeah, let’s show those Koreans just how immature they are by… being as immature and retarded by modifying international trade policies with anthropomorphic-nation mindset as the North Star. That’ll prove to be, uh, good and not ridiculously emotional.
“I do not believe that Han-nara has a clue or any insight as to how to deal with this sort of subversion of democratic rule or how to really lead.”
The Conservatives are painted as old fogies in their military garbs. Or they’re also painted as Christians – outdated, corrupt, old deluded men, 1970′ish, always lecturing/screaming about “lefties, NK spies, and commies” – (Korean equivalent to ‘red necks’ responsible for dictatorship of the past and to a certain extent the present).
In a way they’re right. The Conservatives in Korea has lost touch with the Korea’s new generation. Young people are turned off by what Conservatism represents to them.
#130
so, then i guess this is korean gen y and z’s cultural revolution?
this is korea’s way of Sex Pistols’s God Save the Queen?
“Young people are turned off by what Conservatism represents to them.”
What about a moderate alternative? In a nation of extremes, moderation and reason would be out of the question. No wonder things are constantly spinning out of control.
I suppose you can say that. But probably in a very destructive way. Hopefully they’ll grow out of it, but the way the old who are in power manipulate them.. I don’t know…
Dirty mongrel race, huh? Now who’s being racist here? The only people who derided mongrels races were the Nazis.
Dogbert, my heavy friend, I hope you get over your bitterness with Koreans for whatever reason you have it. Aparently you had some traumatic incident while in Korea, but get over it already. All Koreans are not the source of your bitterness – you are.
No Koreans aren’t begging for chocolate. Now they are begging to act any kind of way, break written trade agreements due to ‘weeee don’t like it’ and not suffer any consequences because they and their culture are so ‘unique’ (in this case uniquely stupid) and they’re just exercising their ‘democratic rights’ (which means believing ANYONE that says anything that feeds the idea that the big U.S. is trying to hurt ‘little’ Korea, no matter how false and idiotic that it may seem).
Now they are begging for the right to attack the U.S. and sometimes our citizens in Korea and not suffer any consequences.
Now they are begging for the privilege of using our combat equipment and our troops so they won’t have to do anything (do their troops even know how to operate a gun?)come out of their pockets and pay for their own stinking defense from the ‘Dear Leader’, whom they’ve demonstrated that they’re itching to join so they can eat grass soup with their northern comrades. (Which amounts to being lazy and cheap, to me. And they say they can defend themselves? Then why fight to keep us there whenever we try to pull out?? Yeah..okay.)
The blogger was right. They don’t beg for chocolate anymore.
Oh and boycott Korean products!
Loved the comment, Lana. Post it over on WaPo where the Korean “nutizens” are attempting to sway the American public with pretty pathetic propaganda.
JK, what you call “bitterness” toward Korea might just be common sense.
Suppose for a moment that you were an expatriate teacher or businessperson in “hell”, having left heaven to help educate and enrich these hellions and bring them into modernity.
Suppose the hellsfolk you lived among contantly treated with arrogance, contempt, racial prejudice and slander. Suppose the environment, social and physical, were so toxic that you needed to get out eventually just to live a reasonably healthy life, physically and mentally. Suppose the level or irrationality in hell routinely rose to dangerous levels.
Now suppose this “hell” world were sucking your heaven economically and providing nothing in return except slander, and the angels simply didn’t know what the hellions were doing to them because they were so used to contributing and asking nothing in return that they no longer paid attention.
What would be a reasonable response as a citizen of heaven? Truth, remember, is a virtue, so don’t call it bitterness.
It’s entirely inaccurate to say that they want to ‘break’ the trade agreement, since until ratified by both sides, there’s no enforceable agreement. Remember the Kyoto Protocol? Same deal here — until both sides ratify, they’re free to entirely ignore the agreement and/or call for its renegotiation. It’s an unratified agreement, so it simply does not follow that there’s some sort of moral obligation on either country to abide by it.
“Suppose for a moment that you were an expatriate teacher or businessperson in “hell”, having left heaven to help educate and enrich these hellions and bring them into modernity.”
Come on Mizar, I don’t think English teachers and businessmen are entering Korea so that they can help and educate those heathens. Now that’s going to another extreme side of things.
Koreans are reading this blog too, and as soon as you resort to calling them names and become racist yourself, that’s when they’ll just dismiss you as another ‘typical waygookin’. I hope you don’t stoop to that level because I agree with a lot of your criticisms of Korea.
JK — no bitterness here. I’ve got a great life. Like I said, I hope before you turn 40 you can find some maturity and peace with yourself; it beats your life of aimlessness, anomie, and pointless regret. Make your parents proud, not sad.
In the meantime, I hope you can adjust better to the dominant culture of your adopted country and get over your complex about whitey. As you know in your heart, you are the source of your problems, not The Man.
Y’all are gonna miss everything cool and die angry.
That says it all. “Adopted country.” Let’s be clear, dogbert, you’re living in MY country, if you’re living in the US. Tell that to your racist white parents who apparently made you the sorry person you are today with your racist, bitter attitudes. Yeah, some great life you have….. If it’s so great, quit displaying your bitterness on this blog with these coments about “kyopos this” and “kyopos that.” You have had even white people criticial of Korea who think you are a racist.
And oh Lord, I see through my tracer that we got someone from New Zealand reading my blog with an old entry from a year ago referencing my then-145 pounds. Amazing…..
I happen to like the term “netizen,” and it is NOT Konglish. The word was created about 15 years ago by a young computer scientist named Michael Hauben.
No cm, I never stoop to racism and I don’t call names. My very life belies racism. My family is multiracial.
And yes, many young idealistic Americans go to Korea hoping to provide service. After all, the native speaker craze was started by the thousands of young Peace Corps volunteers who went to Korea in the spirit of sevice. I myself returned to Korea as a businessperson in 2002, after nearly 20 years away, hoping to help contribute to Korean development.
By and large, foreign residents in Korea are the extreme opposite of prejudiced. If they didn’t possess a culturally openminded outlook to begin with, they wouldn’t venture that far from their culture.
It’s not the same for Koreans. They travel overseas and make little to no effort to mingle with the citizens or to attempt to understand how non-Koreans think. And this is unfortunate because the rest of the world has become quite global in their thinking, and Koreans stand alone and apart, and this only reinforces their sense of isolation and national persecution complex.
Now, once the openminded foreign residents come to Korea, they soon begin to experience mistreatement, smallmindedness, bigotry and arrogance that just no longer exists in their home nations which have probably had the benefit of centuries of racial and cultural inflows.
Even so, by and large, these resident foreigners do not attempt to express the truth about what they encounter in Korea, out of deference for their hosts’ feelings. They just stoically accept all that’s dished out to them with “understanding”. Whenever a new xenophobic, racist outbreak occurs, and foreigners are again followed around with cell phones and misleading news stories are perpetrated to make foreign residents look like criminals, the resident foreigners try to keep a low profile.
Of course, deep inside they are dying to talk with someone who is not blinded by the frog-in-the-well Korean mentality that makes Koreans so out of step with the rest of the world. They might express their frustrations on forums like this.
But they are telling the long-repressed truth.
Contrast this to these demonstrators who are expressing their repressed frustrations by parroting lies.
Let me tell you from experience, that I have sucked it in so many times in the decades that I have eitehr lived in Korea or interacted with native Koreans overseas and have learned firsthand that the stubborn Korean attitude does not change over time, it is merely reinforced and becomes more deeply entrenched.
The Korean culture and environment grows less bearable each year.
Back in the 1970s and 1980s, I thought Korea to be a better nation than today. Hardworking, well-meaning decent folks struggled to pull themselves up from poverty to affluence. I worked hard to be a diplomat.
Even so, there was an underlying arrogance, inferiority complex and racism that I hoped would diminish as the nation developed. Someday, they will grow up and overcome this childishness, I reasoned. For now, I will overlook these character flaws out of deference for them as human beings.
Over time, however, these negative characteristics were reinforced, and the generosity and “cheong” have all but disappeard in favor of mutual mistrust, anger and cheating.
I realize that the Korean personality contains the seed of its own distruction. Korea can only advance so far before it begins the process of self-destructing. They turn on each other, using right/left idiologies against one another.
They split their country into three kingdoms in this manner, and the mutual mistrust among the 3 areas of Korea remains to this day, as political and social regionalism.
Then Koreans split their county along the 38th parallel with right/left nonsense. When they finally acquired a great ally and champion who saved them from the brink of destruction asking virtually nothing in return, they eventually turned on this ally and its supporters in their own govt.
Now they are splitting what’s left of the nation along right/left (pro- and anti-American) lines as well as generational and class lines.
It’s a very dark time for this county. So should we just go along, enabling this ignorant behavior? If so, for how much longer must we coddle these people like fragile crybabies whose feelings we don’t want to hurt?
Now, we could focus on all the good things about Korea – the healthful food, for example (yes, there are equally healthful diets in Korea and other nations – not everyone in any nation lives on just junk foods). But for long-term residents, who have already experienced these things, often all that remains is the constant in-your-face Korean culture of xenophobia, toxic competition, classism, racism, and the dirty restaraunts and streets. It gets tiring, and it starts to wear people down.
Then, one day the foreign resident understands that Korea refuses to change for the better, and that the best way to make any personal progress is to repatriate to a nation where people are actually calm, rational and mutually respectful. Once they do, they wonder why they subjected themselves to such toxicity for so long.
Then there is a new outbreak of xenophobia and a new round of lies, insults and unfairness about foreign nations Koreans depend upon for their livlihoods.
The foreigner begins to wonder why his/her nation continues to close its eyes to this and continues to provide one-sidedly favorable trading and diplomatic conditions to this country. The foreigner wonders: isn’t it time for Korea to stand on its own without our nation thanklessly shouldering the burden for their welfare, as though we somehow owe it to them, when in fact, it is Korea that owes the international community, and not vice-versa.
The relationship always sours when someone realizes that they are being taken advantage of and mistreated. For all of America’s humility, deferenece and sacrifices toward Korea, it is labled “arrogant,” “evil”.
That’s when it’s time to speak the truth. If Koreans are offended, at least they will understand why their international reputation is suffering. Those who are reasonable may learn from ordinary folks like us whyn things always seem to go wrong for Korea, and whose fault it is, and why Koreans, unlike others, never fit in with other nationalities.
It’s not because Korea is a victim. It’s because Korea villifies those who are not Korean. Ironically, the only way for Koreans to attain a healthy sense of self identity is to be willing to give up that sense of identity. A self identity that is built on “han”, a sense of being wronged and miserable, is worse than no self identity at all. It would be better to be a world citizen than a Korean, if that’s what defines you as a Korean.
Then Koreans can begin to comprehend that Americans are not attempting to pass off substandard products they won’t consume themselves. They are attempting to share the same quality products that they themselves enjoy. That is the reality.
Again, it’s ok for Koreans to trash talk others, but as soon as you do it to them, it’s a crime.
I agree that on the average Koreans can seem less logical than Westerners. But let’s remember that Americans and others can also be illogical.
Here’s a little list/rant of illogical American attitudes and policies:
A large percentage of Americans believe in biblical creationism, obviously illogical but defended as religion.
Americans also allowed themselves to illogically believe that invading Iraq was a direct response to 9/11, and allowed the Bush Administration to swindle them into a war (as Scott McClellan’s book tells us), and then astoundingly reelected Bush!
That war was run completely illogically, with ideology trumping reason, and with a damaging air of superiority.
The Administration illogically derided those who operated in “the reality-based world” as out of touch, and revealed themselves as extreme relativists, just like that Korean pol’s “public opinion matters more than reality” arch-relativist opportunism.
A great many Americans illogically don’t believe in climate change. (I love how people believe the few quacks who say climate change isn’t anything–it’s like you’re daughter’s diagnosed with cancer and you go to a hundred doctors until finally one tells you she’s fine, and you believe him.)
Energy also displays Americans’ illogic.
With oil at $135/barrel 1 year’s oil now costs almost the same as all the oil we used in the 1990’s. The world isn’t finding new oil, and yet we illogically only blame speculative froth while ignoring the fundamental and titanic problem that has the potential to truly wreck the world economy instead of actively seeking alternatives. This might sound boring but it’s unbelievably important. The gov’t does just about nothing other than give a bunch of ethanol money to Iowa.
Americans import oil duty-free from enemies while slapping a high tariff on efficient Brazilian sugar ethanol, and we illogically use corn as a feedstock for ethanol, turning 30% of America’s corn into 3% of our gas. (Thanks, Sen Grassley of Iowa, you fucker.)
In terms of race, while the US is getting better, let’s remind ourselves that we illogically incarcerate a tremendous proportion of black American males because of our illogical drug laws and other illogical policies.
I don’t like the beef protests either, but at the same time let’s not pretend that Americans or any other people are so wise and logical. Instead we might say that Koreans often seem even more illogical than us!
#144
“They split their country into three kingdoms in this manner, and the mutual mistrust among the 3 areas of Korea remains to this day, as political and social regionalism.”
Just a small issue with your review of history:
As a scholar of Korean history, (currently doctoral student) who did extensive work with the Three Kingdoms period during my Master’s program, I take issue with the above comment. I hope you are referring to the Later Three Kingdoms period, for before Unified Silla, Korea was never unified in a peninsular form.
Additionally, as extensive research would attest to, The Three Kingdoms period was a time of three separate unique kingdoms,which were culturally, ethnically, and socially varied, as clearly notated by the different tribal groups that were contained inside their borders. (Including but not limited to the Yemaek and Han descendants, members of Puyo, Mo-ho, Han Chinese, Eastern proto-Turks, Hsi, etc.)
This is a fact that ethno-nationalist Korean historians ignored, misinterpreted, or purposefully left out during the early 20th century in an effort to create a nationalist narrative to combat Japanese colonialism and a perceived loss of the Korean identity. (see Sin Chae-ho, Lee Pom-suk, etc., minjok, danil minjok, hyeol-tong, etc.)
It is a sad reality that these ethno-nationalits narratives have led to an exclusion from history textbooks the true diverse, multi-tribal nature of kingdoms situated in and around the Korean peninsula, and early modern Korean ethno-nationalist historiography continues to dominate historical discourse in South Korea today, leading to many of the problems that all the contributors have been writing about.
To return to the point, if you were referring to the Later Three Kingdoms, I can understand to a degree, though the rebellions and subsequent break-up of Unified Silla can be attributed to the divergent aspects of the Three Kingdoms populations and how the continued repression of Paekche and Koguryo members, coupled with Silla aristocratic ineptitude and corruption, led to the subsequent break-up of the kingdom. (This can be found in records pertaining to enslavement of Paekche peoples under Unified Silla, the ability of only the Silla elite to hold positions in the ruling structure, etc.)
Proof of successful integration utilizing the former members of all 3 kingdoms, and including Parhae during the early 900’s and onward, is found in Koryo, which saw the value in maintaining a stable domestic situation. By the way, Koryo was also a very open nation in regards to foreigners, (Western Asians, Parhae members, etc.) and was even accomodating to Mongolians after the horrible invasion of the 13th century. (Dr. Peter Yun at Korea University has done outstanding work in this area.)
Furthermore, I seriously question your central point of using perceptions of the current prevalent Korean mindset to explain historical discourse before the 20th or 19th century. The mindset you speak of owes its roots to the early 20th century (and some proto-nationalism from the Chosun period), and to say that the Korean mind as a collective social and cultural entity has remained the same over the entire history of the Korean Peninsula is in error.
I meant this as an informative constructive criticism and hope it is taken as such. Additionally, I don’t disagree with everything you said in your post, only what I mentioned above.
Sorry, #146 Mizer5
day4night — Surely, you of all people could understand how the government could get the intelligence all wrong. Just look at the people who make that particular sausage…
And what, “love” your cars?
Korean car sales account for about 3% of the market in the US. Does that moron actually think the US “loves” Korean cars. He must be a graduate of SNU.
If any country has been declining it’s Korea, not the US. From 10th to 13th place to be exact.
Korea is a minor player in the world, so why should they be treated like a major power? They need to realize this.
It may not be right, but that’s the way it is.
Korea is not Germany, Japan, China or even Canada. Start dealing with reality Korea.
I hope more Americans catch on to what’s going on over here. Things would change for sure.
Hopefully, there will be a song called “Fuck Korea” made.
In terms of race, while the US is getting better, let’s remind ourselves that we illogically incarcerate a tremendous proportion of black American males because of our illogical drug laws and other illogical policies.
hahahahhahaha that was a good one to start my day
#146- Mizar, thank you for taking the time to write that post. I only wish the Korean public would have the chance, inclination, and open mindedness to give it the attention it deserves.
Brendon, you’re absolutely right. But my ‘beef’ isn’t with the faux WMDs, or the ridiculous US intel that we both witnessed (what a comedy!), and I don’t even know that regime change was the wrong overall policy for Iraq. My problem is that the Administration actively misled America by conflating al-Qaeda with Iraqi Baathists and lied about or at least cherry-picked intel right before the public’s eyes, and the people lapped it up because their emotions illogically trumped their reason.
#149 Thank you as well for your learned opinion.
While refering to #146 you said, “I seriously question your central point of using perceptions of the current prevalent Korean mindset to explain historical discourse before the 20th or 19th century.”
..I must have been looking in the wrong direction, because my impression was that the past was beening used to account for the present, not vise-versa…acurately or inacurately, could it hope to be any other way ?
I have to agree w/Insung in that there are quite a few holes in Mizar’s line of reasoning. For the reference to the Korean Three Kingdoms, a good example would be England’s division into Welsh, Normans and Saxons. Not a situation where they were once one then divided, but they were always divided and one had to force the others to get together. Any ways.
There are others:
“Then Koreans split their county along the 38th parallel with right/left nonsense.”
Japan’s Manchurian army collapsed. Soviets moved into northern Korea kept moving pretty quickly and an American general sorta picked the 38th parallel as the point at which Soviet armies should stop (otherwise, they wouldn’t have stopped). No Koreans were initially involved in splitting the country.
“When they finally acquired a great ally and champion who saved them from the brink of destruction asking virtually nothing in return,”
Koreans who lived through the hell of 1950-53 will forever be grateful and take that to their graves. But that’s the problem, they ARE taking it to their graves, meaning that gratefullness isn’t being transferred beyond the next generations. However, let’s not forget the larger context of the times. America was fighting Communism and Korea was seen as another battlefield in this global struggle against it. Marshall Plan money and the Bretton Woods system (a U.S. creation) rebuilt Western Europe, but you don’t see a lot of residual graditude from Western Europeans, do you? Also forgotten is that 5,000 Korea boys died in the rice paddies of Vietnam as an ally of America. So it’s not to say that Korea was never grateful to America.
Any ways, it seems as if Mizar has genuine concern for Korea. However, like a lot of long time residents, they do so by objectly insulting Koreans first, at which point I have to argue if they want to make a point or if they just want to make a joke. You are not likely to communicate to a Korean if you are first aiming to insult him. That holds true not just for Koreans, but for every other human being.
McNut, one in twenty black American men are in prison. And that’s a rotating door with a boatload of secondary effects… Would you hire someone with a criminal record? Remember also that the American mafia was created because of the Prohibition. How is this prohibition different?
Bravo day4night for adding a little perspective into the discussion.
I don’t like what’s going on any better then the rest of you, but to stand on some imaginary moral high ground and to call Koreans uniformly lemmings, racists, ungrateful and worse doesn’t make those people all that much better than the misguided candle holders in the streets of Seoul.
You really think so?
‘Korea is not Germany, Japan, China or even Canada. Start dealing with reality Korea. I hope more Americans catch on to what’s going on over here. Things would change for sure.’ huffed and puffed the huffy puffy angry little expat. If any country has been declining it’s Korea, not the US. From 10th to 13th place to be exact.
‘Korea is a minor player in the world, so why should they be treated like a major power? They need to realize this.’ declared the huffy puffy all huffy puffy expat
‘
But about the beef protests:
I think LMB is doing the right thing by asking the US to renegotiate, and think that the US should be OK with beef from cattle under 30 months, esp considering that Koreans do eat the more BSE vulnerable parts of the cow.
LMB’s timing is good, I hope. The rains are about to begin, right? Next few weeks? So he’ll react just before the rain douses the candles and the protests peter out, and might even look like he has things under control. That’s my best-case scenario. Of course the opposition can claim a victory, but hey, they already have one…
Agree with Wangkon here. Another hole in Mizar’s post: Yes in the old days many Peace Corp people came to Korea to help. Today in 2008 many people are English teachers, hired to teach English. Most, if not all, would never go to Korea if they weren’t getting paid. I don’t think anyone would argue that point. Furthermore, despite its fault, it’s hard to believe that all the expats in Korea are living in day to day hell hole, as described. I’m sure there are good days and bad days for anyone, but are the lives of foreign teachers and businessmen that bad? What if they just stopped reading newspapers and logging onto the internet? Would that make you less angry?
But I also understand many people’s anger and frustrations and disappointment with this country. It frustrates and angers me to see this country flounder like this. It can be so much better if there is more open mind. And I do feel bad about anti Americanism by my fellow ethnic relatives and I like to apologize for that on behalf of them.
Am I alone here in getting quite sick of the words “netizen”, “beef” ….?
Marmot can we please have some Francine Prieto, Korean Hallyuwood MILF action or some other diversions (with apologies to Sonagi, no beefcake shots yet).
Hell, even the uncomic stylings of the cutish Esther Ku would do right about now.
#148
The war in Iraq and various religious beliefs aren’t cut and dry. I don’t believe Jews, muslims or Christians who practice their brand of faith (unscientific or illogical for the secular observer) can be compared to the current korean outrage. That muslim women should wear scarves on their heads in public all their life has no rational basis outside of religoius reasons, but that’s just it. It’s (apparently) one of the tenets of the muslim faith. They’re not clueless zombies for honoring their tradition or belief. Also, many of us who believe in the deity and the unexplainable can recognize simple facts of science that eludes some Koreans. Fans can’t suffocate you to death in your sleep, and water won’t turn to wine because you pray real hard.
The war in Iraq is a complex issue, I support it and you oppose it. IMO there’s room for debate on this, I certainly see where the other side is coming from. War skeptics are duped by certain falsehoods themselves, but I won’t lump them with “illogical Koreans” because at least some of them are well informed overall and will acknowledge different opinions.
You simply cannot die because you slept with the fan on. You’re not going to die eating US beef that’s killed a handful of people in the last 20,30 years. Mad Cow disease isn’t contagious among cows and humans, and the lipids in the commonly found cosmetics will kill the prion that causes the disease (so much for mad cow lipstick). This isn’t a polarizing issue like the war, healthcare or oil prices where different sides butt heads with their own good reasons and unique interpretation of the numbers or events. These are facts. But I typically find a handful of Koreans who still think MDC infects cows like a flu or the Americans dumped non diluted formalyhyde down their river.
‘Any ways, it seems as if Mizar has genuine concern for Korea.’ 미스터僞黃皇帝
“You really think so?” 小雨
我高興能你有時看到真!
that should be:
我高興你能有時看到真!
Remember that I have a set of keys to the kingdom.
看不懂. 不要用Altavista翻译.
i did it on my own, sonagi, sorry.
“That muslim women should wear scarves on their heads in public all their life has no rational basis outside of religoius reasons, but that’s just it. It’s (apparently) one of the tenets of the muslim faith.”
Actually, it originates from the Judea-Christian tradition. Have a look at any depiction of the Virgin Mary and certain Catholic nuns. Catholic and Protestant used to wear a bonnet in Canada 150 years ago, some Amish and Mennonite women still do. And, don’t some Korean Catholic women still cover their heads in church?
JK, I’m not a racist because I question whether the addition of 2+ million Koreans to the U.S. in the past few decades was an entirely positive demographic shift — I disagree with people like you and baduk who think kyopos are better than other Americans.
I can see you’ve picked up the usual minority play of trying to shut up a white man by crying “racist!” If wjk is the kyopo Al Sharpton, you’re the kyopo Jeremiah Wright.
Whoah…! I hope nobody thinks KA’s are better Americans!
I hope people think that KA’s are just good Americans.
No, you’re not. I’m to the point of randomly blurting out Hardy & Tiny’s famous catchphrase whenever I see another story or post…”FUCK ME! FUCK BEEF!”
Here’s a diversion for you, Jose Lima doing his best to keep up the rep of furriners.
Thanks WangKon!
Surabol: I’m not against religion, so I hope I wasn’t unclear there. Also there are plenty of religious people who are also scientific. Darwin himself, for example.
Also the Iraq thing isn’t about being for or against the war; the illogical part is believing obvious lies proffered by the Bush Administration, especially the al-Qaeda/Baathist connection which was fabricated unless there’s some really strong classified info we don’t know about, and I highly doubt that. Clear and present danger? They made it sound like Iraqi nukes were going to blow up Manhattan. The second point is about the illogical way the US executed the war. I personally think we’ve been at war in Iraq since 1991, and that the period after Desert Storm was effectively a form of modern siege warfare (embargo & sanctions, no-fly zone, near-daily little bombardments here and there, etc). That siege was not maintainable (2 million unnecessary Iraqi deaths and rampant unemployment for example), so war in my view (since about 1999) was an inevitability, because there was no other good option from a US perspective. I think the timing was really bad and the military execution was absolutely illogical. We alienated our friends and brought our enemies together. I certainly think that world opinion is that we were being irrational.
Day4night, thank you for that clearheaded view of some particularly ludicrous American absurdities.
Insung, that was a wonderful post.
Thank everyone else for not saying I’m full of shit (including pawikirogi who is much to clever for that).
Insung,
I especially appreciated your highlighting the ethnic diversity of early Koreans. Of course I was referring back to the Late 3 Kingdoms. I’ve forgotten a lot of my earlier Korean history and I can’t even be sure that it was taught to me right to begin with.
I know that caucasian skulls have been unearthed in those large ancient stone tombs you find scattered about the peninsula.
You say that the mindset I am referring to goes back as far as Choson. I’m fascinated. I can’t help wonder whether it goes back even further. Regionalism brings to mind separate tribal identities.
I could imagine Korean xenophobia having its roots in continual squirmishes among tribes.
If there were uneasy truces, there would be cultural exchanges leading to a common culture in which there would remain lingering suspicions and rivalries.
Or something like that.
Your insights are most appreciated.
d4n,
I read a report by a DC think thank awhile ago that just made a ton of sense to me. According to them, the reason why al-Qaeda slammed two planes into the WTC was to actually groat the U.S. into invading Afghanistan. Thus, Bin Laden can wage a costly guerilla campaign just like he had done with the Soviets and maximize U.S. casualties. His goal was to create so many losses to the U.S. that they would leave the Middle East, just like they had left Southeast Asia because of their losses in Vietnam. Although he had thought he neutralized the Northern Alliance by assassinating their main leader, Ahmad Shah Massoud, he underestimated the Taliban’s ability to fight against their enemies once rallied by American forces. So his plan to make Afghanistan another Vietnam for the Americans failed.
However, America was to give al-Qaeda an unexpected suprise by invading Iraq and placing a large number of troops in the Middle East anyways. The disadvantages of Iraq vs. Afghanistan is that it doesn’t have that rocky, mountainous terrain. However, it does have vast urban sprawls and much better access to move terrorists, weapons, etc. into. So, it’s been 4,100 American deaths so far. It’s far from Vietnam, but in my opinion, al-Qaeda has American forces close enough where they can continue to do damage to them.
#158 WangKon936,
I’ll show some even larger context.
The US shouldn’t have entered the Korean War. Yeah sure, the US was fighting “Communism,” but what about US-China relations today? Is China still the enemy of the US? What about Vietnam?
The “Containment” Policy had its flaws (the domino effect, for example) and the US realized that by the end of the Vietnam War.
Stationing US troops in Japan was more than enough to secure East Asia. The US should’ve ignored N. Korea unifying the Korean peninsula. More poor countries that can’t produce cars and cell phones=good for America lol
Korea participating in the Vietnam War? Korea helped the US because they were paid “lots of money” and a bunch of free M-16s. With that money and reparations from Japan, Korea managed to become a developed country.
@173: Good Korean-Americans = you, dry cleaners, Harold Cho, etc.
Bad Korean-Americans = John Yoo, Robert Kim, bear poachers, massage parlor owners, Margaret Cho
I agree that Insung’s post was good. I hope she continues to provide the much-needed historical context here.
#97 hitest, thank you for proving your inability to do basic math.
In your example, by the time 1 BSE cow was found, 999,999 cows have been distributed in the market, of which 999 were tested negative and 999,000 untested. Of the 999,000 untested cows, what is the likely number of BSE infected cows? The answer is 999, right?
Let’s generalize it. Suppose the likelihood that a given cow is infected with BSE is 1/N. That means one has to TEST an expected N cows to find 1 BSE cow. If the sampling ratio is 1 in 1,000, by the time of finding, 1000N-1 cows will have been distributed in the market. Of which N-1 are tested negative, 999N are not tested. Of the 999N untested cows, what is the likely number of BSE cows? 999N x 1/N=999. Yes, if the sampling ratio is 1 in 1,000, regardless of the infection ratio, on average 999 BSE infected cows will have been distributed in the market.
Xenophobia is literally hard-wired into the brain’s amygdala, which play a key role in emotional memory and learning. The amygdala are threat sensors, firing actively when we encounter unfamiliar people, things, and situations. In studies showing human faces to different subjects, MRI data showed that the amygdala were more active when people were shown faces of frightened or threatening people or of people of a different race. People who claim to be color-blind are either ignorant or lying. The human brain is hard-wired to take note of physical differences that identify another as a member of a different ethnic group.
“Good Korean-Americans = you, dry cleaners, Harold Cho, etc.
Bad Korean-Americans = John Yoo, Robert Kim, bear poachers, massage parlor owners, Margaret Cho”
Lol… is this an application of that Chris Rock routine?
And who’s Harold Cho?
Maybe he meant Harold “Koh”–the Dean of Yale Law School?
Anyone up for some counter candlelight vigils?
#116 Mizar5,
“The huge US beef industry cannot (and should not) test every cow. The more you study the issue, the more you realize how safe the US beef supply really is.”
If someone claims something is safe without even testing, who will believe?
Those brainwashed, and those who cannot think by themselves, right?
And “should not” part is more interesting. Mizar5, would you elaborate why they should not?
Actually, US Department of Agriculture is blocking BSE testing by US beef producers.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/o.....view_x.htm
#65 by Stacked,
Exactly right! You hit the nail right on the head.
Also, you might enjoy this satire site of like-minded people:
http://www.thepeoplescube.com/
Why is Margaret Cho a bad KA? Overrated talent, certainly. Unwatchable performer, I think so. But bad?
I would like to subscribe to Insuk and WangKongs newsletters.
It’s always nice to read some actual history/analysis around here.
Anyway, the United States is a declining nation inhabited by a dirty mongrel race.
I absolutely hate this pure race idea that goes aroundin Korea, (and in Japan). It is the worst face of nationalism, which I’m not fond of anyway, and is the calling card for groups such as the KKK and NAZIS. I really wonder how close people who speak like this are to the thinking of these groups.
Secondly, its absurd. Korea in not a pure race, it has had centuries of regional mixing with China, Japan, Mongolia and Eastern Russia.
Finally, even if it was true, with all the mail order brides coming into Korea would soon end it. Maybe I’m wrong, but I suspect a lot of the people who import these wives are the backbone of Korean nationalism. As it tends to be the underpaid working class in any country that is both more nationalistic and would find it harder to get a young hot wife due to local finical standing.
J,
You do know that the article that you continue to link is not actually news – it’s an editorial. It is an editorial spun with loaded language and assumptions yet you try to pass it off as news.
It would appear that you could also fall into the brainwashed category.
Harold Hongjoo Ko is indeed a great Korean-American.
I was thinking of the guy in the American Pie films and Harold and Kumar, though.
Margaret Cho is “bad” in the sense of Michael Jackson-style “bad”
John Cho
Holy shit, BlueBalls! It’s truly Limatime! Beleeb it!
If Margaret Cho is bad and she’s the epitomy of Korean Americans.
Then what makes Roseanne Barr? You know the fat one who spat after her less than inspiring rendition of the Star Spangled Banner?
And which assumptions can you refute? There is something troublingly anti-free enterprise about the federal government blocking a company from selling testing kits to a meat producer that wants to test its own cows. Do you think the beef industry ISN’T pushing the feds? Recently, Pennyslvanis passed a law banning milk producers from labeling their products “hormone-free.” The stated rationale is that such labeling is misleading since the USDA has declared milk and meat from hormone-injected cows safe for human consumption. Another victory for factory farming against consumer choice. If I, as a consumer, want to pay %4.50 for a half-gallon of hormone-free milk, who the f*ck is the federal government to deny me that choice? An independent meat producer who wants to test their cows to make their product more marketable overseas doesn’t need the corporate whores at the USDA to run interference on behalf of Cargill. If you don’t think large agricultural corporations and food producers have tremendous influence over our nation’s agricultural policies and regulations, then you’re the one who’s brainwashed.
Pennsylvanis = Pennsylvania
%4.50 = $4.50
Yes, cm. That particular performance was in my home town. You know she actually has trailer park roots?
Now settle down there Sonagi. I did not know that it was my burden as a reader to refute and provide proof against assertions in an editorial. The article clearly has an agenda.
In regards to the willful testing of 100% of the animals, cannot that be seen as gimmicky marketing? Who is regulating the testing and confirming the results? What standards? What procedures are in place for those companies to ensure that all results are reported? What percentage of those cows have a statistically significant chance of testing positive (ie those over 30 months of age)?
Allowing free-for-all testing with no regulatory body is a ludicrous idea.
“If you don’t think large agricultural corporations and food producers have tremendous influence over our nation’s agricultural policies and regulations, then you’re the one who’s brainwashed.”
Could you perhaps reference where I said that there was no influence?
All editorials have a POV. What “agenda” do you think that editorial has, other than to defend the right of the company to test 100% of its cattle?
Gimmicky marketing? Imagine that! Supermarket aisles are filled with gimmicky marketing. Call the USDA and FDA quick!
The USDA already regulates the sale of the kits and their usage. The only difference between testing 1% and 100% is in the numbers, not in the procedure or reporting. Creekstone is not suing to deregulate testing or strip the USDA of its general authority. It is only suing to force the USDA to sell it enough kits to test all of its beef.
Apparently, DC District Court Judge James Robertson is brainwashed with an agenda, too, for he ruled in favor of beef producer Creekstone.
The Goat, it seems you really do not understand “freedom of choice”, Sonagi mentioned. There are people who want to eat BSE free tested beef, and there are beef producers who want to sell tested beef. Why in the world should Federal Government block the testing?
I do not know if you want to eat BSE free beef or not, but you have to respect the people who want their beef tested BSE free before eating.
dogbert, I’m a gyopo, and I think I pretty much agree with all of your views on other posts. But dude, do you have to sneer at all korean americans? i mean, i don’t think larry elder or clarence thomas have to listen to their non-black friends ridicule all blacks together. Your posts are pretty funny, and like I said, I agree with 100% of what you say, except the naked loathing of my ethnic group.
#176 Mizar5
“You say that the mindset I am referring to goes back as far as Choson. I’m fascinated. I can’t help wonder whether it goes back even further. Regionalism brings to mind separate tribal identities.”
Thank you for your compliments.
During my thesis, I used the term proto-nationalism to describe the elements and influences of what would later become modern Korean ethno-nationalism and nationalist historiography in the early twentieth century, especially the concept of the minjok.
For the sake of brevity, I traced this early proto-nationalism to the Koryo Era, and based this on three points: the founding mythology of Wang Kon, the first king of Koryo, the use of historical records to legitimize unification and leadership, and the use of political and military actions to claim the exclusive rights to Koguryo.
Wang Kon sought to tie his legitimacy to that of Tan’gun by placing his birth at Paektusan. Koryo also began to keep detailed records of their reign based on Chinese historiography, and the Samguk Sagi and Yusa were both composed during this era, the yusa giving us the oldest surviving record of Tan’gun. Finally, Koryo sought to legitimize its presence as the sole heir to Koguryo (it had solidified its status as heir to Silla by geography, customs, and the co-opting of the descendants of Silla aristocracy into its upper classes) by welcoming all Parhae refugees and initially maintaining an aggressive strategy towards recapturing former Koguryo lands.
As a caveat, though these elements were present, all contemporary records seem to indicate that Koryo was an open society that welcomed thousands of foreigners, some even gaining status within the ruling class.
During Choson, historiography takes a strong Neo-Confucian turn, and in the early period modeled Chinese historiography. It is during the latter stages that Choson scholars begin to write works that characterize Choson as the true center of culture, supplanting China which had lost its mandate due to the Manchurian invaders that had taken over. This is when several Neo-Confucian writers compose works placing Choson as the true Middle Kingdom, thus forming a proto-nationalism that saw Choson as the center of culture, refined society, and governance.
Therefore, I would not characterize these movements as what we understand to be current modern ethno-nationalism, though many of the elements and its gradual development can be traced farther back.
I do believe you would be hard pressed to find elements of modern nationalism and narratives of ethnic homogeneity/supremacy in pre-Koryo times. A quick example is the foundation mythologies themselves, like Tan’gun, which many mythological scholars and historians have noted could be evidence of a small culturally advanced group or tribe coming into contact with a localized community and subsequently taking over the leadership of that group. I believe this demonstrates a wider acceptance of other tribal groups, and it seems to be based more on cultural and societal benefits rather than ethnic differences.
As a final note, and one that #189 madar touched upon, the early modern Korean nationalist-historians, especially the “father” of modern Korean historiography Sin Ch’ae-ho, can trace much of their ideologies and concepts about race to Japan and Germany. For example: Korean minjok = Japanese minzoku = German Volk or Volkschaft. The minjok and minzoku also contained strong social Darwinist elements at their inceptions. For more, Carter Eckert and Andre Schmid offer some great scholarship in this area.
Needless to say, as a Korean of mixed heritage, I find the current mainstream notions of racial homogeneity and school historical textbooks very disturbing, and hope that post-nationalist scholars begin to have more influence in universities in Korea, whilst the Teacher’s Union loses its ideological grip on the classroom.
#180
“I agree that Insung’s post was good. I hope she continues to provide the much-needed historical context here.”
*He ^^
within the Korea, the “power” and “influence” of Korean netizens (and I guess US netizens) is bizarre
“Finally, even if it was true, with all the mail order brides coming into Korea would soon end it.”
It is but a drop of ink into the Han River…
Sonagi,
There are a multitude of reasons for writing such a piece and not all of them are altruistic. The bottom line is that it is an opinion and the writer did a piss poor job in supporting their position.
As for the gimmicky marketing, I really don’t know what the age statistics are for their slaughter of that particular company. If they are under the threshold then it could be seen as a gimmicky marketing playing on fears. I never stated that it was gimmicky advertising – just that it could be used as such when the tests themselves have no statistical relevance.
Hell, I don’t even know why I responded or am continuing to respond to this crap as it was not what I was addressing in the first place! My point was simply that using a clearly biased editorial can be useful but trying to pass the opinions off as fact is slightly off.
In a way, it is not all that different than what the protesters here are doing – using opinions and unsubstantiated assertions to fuel their cause.
To conclude here, you don’t even know my position on testing and what I would like to see happen. You are making all these assumptions on what I believe only because I said the article was an editorial and should be taken as such.
The brainwashing thing is lame too – it was not I who brought it up.
J,
You also have no clue what my position is on beef testing and safety standards. I was stating that your source is crap. Nothing more nothing less.
@202: OK, for your sake, I’ll change my ways.
JK is still a tool, however.
@195: Why, Roseanne Barr is white trash, cm. I thought everyone knew that.
@207: as in most societies, the vocal minority do not speak for the rest of us.
Goat, don’t you know opinions are fact and lies are truth!
Shame on you!
That’s a nice post “Insung” in #203 on the historical aspect of nationalism.
# 181 J. A bit of humility would suit you well J.
It seems you were not quite able to follow my example, so I won’t bother to run you through it again. Perhaps I will show you the difference and you can then attempt to read my previous post a little more carefully.
My presumption was that 1 out of 1,000,000 statistically were infected ( I pulled this statistic out of the air as admitted), and that 1 in 1000 cows (1000 per 1,000,000)were being tested ( you suggested 110 out of 100,000 were being tested so I rounded to make things easier ).
You are calculating 1000 cows per 1,000,000 cows statistically are infected ( 1 in a 1000) and that 1 in 1000 cows are being tested. You did not clarify this with your original post, so your calculations were unclear.
Regardless, multiply my probability by 1000 and I am still quite comfortable suggesting there is little to no danger of any one individual becoming infected.
It should be easy enough to google the actual numbers if you need more assurance. Easiest would be to compare the number of verified cases to the numbers of people eating domesticated beef, although one would also have to take into account the frequency with which these people were eating beef.
178,
Yeah, I suppose you can say that the U.S. shouldn’t of entered the Korean War, but it seems like you are somewhat ignorant of the history and mindset of that period. Letting Korea fall in 1950 was a very unsavory political option for the Truman administration. The Republicans were already all over him for “loosing” China to the Reds, and communism just looked that it was aggressively on the march everywhere. Plus, it was viewed as the first real test of the new United Nations and if this organization could be a viable tool to confront aggression. So in 2008 we can easily say shouldn’t of helped South Korea in 1950, but it was very difficult to think so, assuming if you knew the history of that period. Communism in the 50’s was a clear and present danger, like radical Islamic terrorism seems like today.
“More poor countries that can’t produce cars and cell phones=good for America lol”
What an ignorant statement. It’s hard to respect someone who says crap like that. $82 billion in bilateral trade, Korea is the U.S.’s 7th largest trading partner. American companies like Qualcomm would loose 30% of their sales if it wasn’t for the royalties that Samsung and LG pay them. Plus all the treasury bills that Korea buys so America can have a more flexible monetary policy. This isn’t including the 110k Korean students (third or fourth in that respect) that spend money in American schools and businesses to study or the total number of tourists that come to the states (5th largest). Korean young people pay to live and study in the U.S. and a sizable amount of American young people get paid to teach and live in Korea. What a nice arrangement! The trade relationship between the two countries is less the ideal right now, but both are working on it and the total package deal that the U.S. get’s today isn’t too bad. Ask any Federal Reserve Board member if they want the Bank of Korea to stop buying treasury bills. Finally, struggling American car and cell phone companies have bigger problems than Korea. Nokia became the no.1 supplier of cell phones long before Samsung supplanted Motorola as no. 2 and the Japanese ran circles around the Big Three long before Hyundai stopped becoming the butt of comedian’s jokes.
Regarding the Vietnam War, whatever. The same can be said for the U.S. and WWI and WWII. What did they call WWI? Ah, Mr. JP Morgan’s war. Also, was it the New Deal that got the U.S. out of the Great Depression? No. It was selling war material to the warring parties that jump started the U.S. economy. The Japanese used the Korean War to jump start their economy also.
I came across an article in the Korean press that I thought might interest people. I’m surprised there hasn’t been much discussion about it yet. Maybe the Marmot can do a little research. I’ve translated from the Korean:
“A group, calling itself the United Korean Girls Initiative, spoke out concerning the recent mass demonstrations, surprisingly showing support for the American position. HyeSuk Im, a spokesperson for the girls group, gave this statement:
‘I think Americans have some misunderstandings about this issue. It’s not that we don’t want to eat their meat, we do. It’s just that we get a lot of pressure from Korean guys not to eat it.’
More and more Korean women are expressing their desire for American meat while, shockingly, others have come forward admitting they have already tasted the forbidden fruit, proclaiming it ‘the sweetest.’
‘It’s true,’ explained DongMi Yang another member, ‘I was in the U.S. last summer for language study and I couldn’t get enough of it. I mean, it seemed like my mouth was always full. I had some fears at first because of all the rumors I’d heard, but eventually curiosity got the best of me. I just had to find out what it was like. To be honest what really scared me the first time wasn’t so much the safety issue but the actual size of the meal you’re supposed to put down. In Korea, we’re used to smaller portions. As you know, America is a big country. When they serve us, we had better be prepared to take lot.’
Hanwoo Man, a representative of the Korean Man Meat Association, spoke out against the newly formed girls group, ‘frankly speaking, it’s true we are a small country and, as the girls embarrassingly like to point out, we don’t always have enough meat to satisfy their needs. But that’s no excuse to turn to the Americans for service. The girls just have to learn to be satisfied with less – for the good of the country.’
A U.S. beef industry spokesman offered the view from the American side, ‘you know I just don’t see what all the fuss is about. Nobody’s forcing anybody, and let me tell you, the Korean gals who do make it over here love it. Whether they’re getting the ol’ Texas longhorn or some of that prime Black Angus, they all seem to come away with a smile on their face. I mean, it’s all good!’
With efforts to prevent beef sampling abroad proving impossible, the fight has been focused here, in the Motherland. ‘Korea is a fragile country,’ explained an Immigration official, ‘she needs our protection. People believe her borders are safe, but in reality they are being penetrated daily by American beef. There’s no question it’s coming in, faster and faster all the time. It used to just the U.S. military bases with all the meat, but now it’s English teachers, businessmen – they’re all packing it when they come in Korea.’
A group of concerned male citizens had assembled outside the gates of Hongik University near the notorious nightclub areas where they claim the Americans gather to proffer their concealed packages.
‘We know it’s here,’ shouted one angry citizen, ‘the Americans, they have no decency, they show it off in the clubs and try to tempt our woman into having a taste. I tell the girls, think of your family, think of your country. If they don’t listen to me I take their picture and put it on the Internet.”
Many point to the U.S. Army bases still occupying the country as the chief culprit. But Misuk Yoo, a spokesperson for the Itaewon Section of the United Korean Girls Initiative (ISUKGI), offered the following perspective. ‘Yeah, ok there’s a lot beef in those bases. Everybody know that. But listen to me ok, because Korean people don’t know – U.S. Army meat is safest. They testing all of it. Look at me. I’m eating it all the time, a lot. You think I’m crazy?’
Whatever your thoughts on the issue, there is no doubt that the presence of American meat in Korea has caused a deep divide in Korean society. A gender gap has emerged and in the middle of that gap: American beef.
#214 — OK, I admit I let out an involuntary snort or two in front of my computer. That was funny.
Lately, I have had the “honor and privilege” of defending “the US’ imposition of unsafe beef on the Korean people at every social gathering I’ve attended. It seems that regardless of the gathering’s purpose, we end up talking about this at least once and I get asked to offer the “American” perspective. Apparently, the fact that I work for the US government makes me an expert in all American policy positions. I actually have no idea why people even bother to ask me any questions since they have already decided what answers they want to hear from me. People actually don’t want to hear what I think about the issue, but vent their frustrations, convince me their logic is sound, I am wrong in more ways than one because I don’t emphasize with them, and the US and Korean governments should either renegotiate the beef deal or call the whole thing off.
What I found very interesting in these usually one-sided conversations is that the darn American mad cow disease is about to lay siege on the Korean beef market and systemically wipe out the Korean race, who apparently are genetically more susceptible to the mad cow disease than us westerners (a Korean friend of mine told me that this was true). Why do I find this interesting? Because he tells me that I have nothing to worry about since I am an American – funny, last time I checked, I should have pretty much the same genetic makeup as him since I immigrated to the US from Korea when I was in the 7th grade (I wonder if my genes have mutated over the past 22 years that I lived in the US and gained some sort of immunity against the disease). But I digress.
Of course, if anyone really wants to hear what I really think, not that anyone in Korea really wants to listen, I’d tell them, “It’s the economy, stupid, wake up and smell the coffee.”
# 214,
Wait till it really gets translated into Korean…
@214
I don’t get it.
Angry protests continue throughout South Korea. Like so many popular causes, however, the water has been muddied.
Today marks the 6th anniversary of the death of two middle school girls who died due to an unfortunate accident with a US armored bridge on a narrow road. The anti-government protest organizers are linking the US beef protests to the 6th anniversary of the girls’ death.
On 10th of June, the protest organizers linked that day’s protests to the 21st anniversary of the historic South Korean democracy movement, which occurred on June 10, 1987, that eventually forced the military dictatorial government to change the constitution and adopt a direct presidential election system.
Perhaps I don’t fully understand the scope of the problem, being the devilish American and all, but I can’t seem to quite grasp the connection between the on-going protests and the two historic events that the organizers are trying to tie into – other than the fact that the organizers need something more than just American beef to keep their “cause” going.
I really have nothing to comment about the death of the two middle school girls six years ago. Yes, it was an unfortunate accident; however, the US Army handled that particular situation completely wrong as well. Although I had nothing to do with the accident, as a person and fellow human being, I offer my sincere condolences to the families of the two girls.
I do have a “beef” with the organizers about linking their on-going protests to the June 10, 1987 protests. The organizers have cheapened the true meaning and significance of South Korea’s democratic movement by linking today’s protests to the protests of 1987. I invite anyone to debate with me the merits of today’s organizers’ comparison of these two events. I would like to ask in what way are they doing anything as significant as those who protested against the military dictatorial government in 1987 to contribute to the progress of democracy in Korea. I will submit to you that today’s protests pales in comparison to those of 1987 both in significance and size.
From my perspective, linking today’s protests to the 1987 protests or the death of girls are nothing more than shallow attempts by the protest organizers to gain legitimacy and political advantage.
# 218,
It’s just another penis joke, which after too many comments all posts in the ‘hole eventually deteriorate into.
@218
Yeah, I know… I was trying to be witty.
After 3 years of lurking here at the hole I can’t seem to find an “in” here in the comments section. sad stuff.
It’s OK, Alex. I knew you were trying to be witty
Alex was kind of right, 214 was a little tedious. It made Mike Hunt excrete “an involuntary snort or two”, so that makes it at least as entertaining as the Transformer movie and that Tarantino flick.
Them linking to the 87 protests is disgusting.
The