I think her face is the perfect expression of either A: “My next movie will gross an extra five million in Japan per bow; Jesus, kissing ass is profitable”
or
B. You’ve corrected my form for dipping my fingers in the finger bowl ten fucking times now. How’s this, asshole?
I won a best actress award! I drive a dodge stratus! Who the hell are you?
“No, no Reiz-san, you must turn your fingers counter clockwise, three strokes at half second intervals and your ring, middle and index finger must be at a slight right angle to the table. Again.”
A friend, who lived in the dorm room next to me at the Univ. of Hawaii, took a whole class on the Japanese tea ceremony, and he said it was a difficult but interesting class. He had to make a book with illustrations as one of his class projects.
Apparently, they take their tea drinking very serious in Japan, and it is not just about drinking tea. See HERE.
Korean 차례 is a religious service for ancestors and rarely done in Korea.
Recently, Koreans are trying to advertise somehow it is a Korean tradition, but there was no custom/history of drinking tea among Korean people.
In the other hand, Japanese tea ceremony(Sado) is a completely different thing. It’s not even slightly related to 차례.
My mom and grand father are experts on Sado. Back in old days, “A sophisticated lady” were supposed to know those things such as Sado and Kado in Japan.
I think I’ve read that there used to be a Korean tea ceremony, but that it was lost to history until sometime in the 1980s when vending machines started to became popular in Korea. Isn’t the Korean name 원샷차?
Historically, tea was strongly associated with Buddhism and Buddhists among east asia. In Korea, it was mostly limited to Buddhists in the beginning. And it lost to history when Korea banned Buddhism in Chosun era.
But I’am not saying there was no a Korean tea ceremony. I’m saying it was/is a totally different thing from Sado.
Now no-one knows what 다례 is like, while Sado was clearly established by this guy and then kept and refined by normal Japanese for hundreds of years.
alright, toru, i think you’re all right. as for the tea ceremony, here’s what little i know:
there indeed was a tea ceremony in korea though i cannot remember it’s purpose. it was usually performed by either the upper class or the royal court. there are artisans alive today schooled in the ceremony but i understand they are very old. i’ve seen some picures. it looked very tranquil.
as for your knowledge of 현인, i’m impressed! i love the way the guy sings ‘신라의달밤’(新羅の月夜), if you ever run across it, have a listen.
toru, if you are a young man, i apologize, but do you like misora hibari?
toru, your comments “but there was no custom/history of drinking tea among Korean people” and etc are entirely ignorant and clueless — two minutes checking around on the Internet would discover quite a long and deep history of it — i can only charitably assume you’re joking or being sarcastic (and if that is the case i will apologize for reacting as if you were being serious). I honestly find it amazing that anyone could sincerely even begin to think that.
Bishop’s “Korea and Her Neighbours” is an amazing tale of adventure but cannot be considered any kind of such evidence — the author just wrote what she saw and what she understood (through her Victorian-British lens) about what she saw, which is indeed mistaken in many places; she wasn’t an investigative scholar, just a traveler. She didn’t happen to visit a temple like Duryun-san Daeheung-sa or Jiri-san Ssanaggye-sa where the monks were growing and drinking tea, perhaps? Hardly means that Koreans had stopped drinking tea or had never done so, or had not had a long tradition of ceremony for doing so — that’s just absurd and dumb.
The Hanguk-chado [Korean way of tea] was at a relatively low ebb at that particular time, it does seem to be true — no surprise that she did not encounter it, or didn’t understand what it was when she did…
If you do indeed enjoy learning new things, you might start rectifying your opinion on this at the very popular-introduction level with my own humble web-pages on the subject, with many links and photos: http://san-shin.org/KGTea-1.html
…and then if further interested, Brother Anthony’s research on it is deeper and more authoritative. And that’s just in English; there’s infinitely more in Korean and i’m sure quite a bit in Japanese.
Little known fact, but today’s elaborate Japanese tea ceremony owes a lot to Sen Rikyū, who was second or third generation Korean Japanese. Sen’s last name would be Korean Romanized as Ch’on.
#18
Little known “fact”? Please substantiate your claim from a reputable source! I didn’t expect to see the “Korean begot JP civilization” stuff coming from you…
#20:
Famous book. What does the book cite for the source? I checked Japanese sources, but no information about him being of Korean descent. His family name is actually “Tanaka”, and “Sen” he named himself. Some Japanese sources say his teahouse has Korean influences, which is not a surprise where you have “Korean Gate” style in Samurai castles. Also that his tea-ware was made by an artisan of Korean descent. I think someone expanded this information which evolved into an urban legend in Korea.
#27
When it comes to Japan, it’s just too bad you’re no different from other guys you so criticize here. Stay in Japan for a while and get to know the place, or at least check out some expat bloggers there. It’s freakin’ different from what you perceive of it.
29 Comments
Her facial expression looks like the kimono is on too tight.
I think her face is the perfect expression of either A: “My next movie will gross an extra five million in Japan per bow; Jesus, kissing ass is profitable”
or
B. You’ve corrected my form for dipping my fingers in the finger bowl ten fucking times now. How’s this, asshole?
I won a best actress award! I drive a dodge stratus! Who the hell are you?
“No, no Reiz-san, you must turn your fingers counter clockwise, three strokes at half second intervals and your ring, middle and index finger must be at a slight right angle to the table. Again.”
Oh, I would greatly like to have the privilege of visiting her, Mama-san. Can you arrange this for a certain fee?
Reese Witherspoon has fans?
A friend, who lived in the dorm room next to me at the Univ. of Hawaii, took a whole class on the Japanese tea ceremony, and he said it was a difficult but interesting class. He had to make a book with illustrations as one of his class projects.
Apparently, they take their tea drinking very serious in Japan, and it is not just about drinking tea. See HERE.
I forgot to mention that Korea also has a tea ceremony that I think is called “Wonshotja,” but I am not sure.
#7 gbevers,
Korean 차례 is a religious service for ancestors and rarely done in Korea.
Recently, Koreans are trying to advertise somehow it is a Korean tradition, but there was no custom/history of drinking tea among Korean people.
In the other hand, Japanese tea ceremony(Sado) is a completely different thing. It’s not even slightly related to 차례.
My mom and grand father are experts on Sado. Back in old days, “A sophisticated lady” were supposed to know those things such as Sado and Kado in Japan.
It’s just different.
PS. roboseyo,WangKon936 you guys are sooo funny!
‘Recently, Koreans are trying to advertise somehow it is a Korean tradition, but there was no custom/history of drinking tea among Korean people.’
you sure about that? you sure seem to know lots about korea for a japanese person.
pawikirogi,
“you sure about that?”
Well, I’ve read a few books on Korea written in 1890’s including “Korea and Her Neighbours”. The author witnessed Korea first hand.
“you sure seem to know lots about korea for a japanese person”
I just like to study things. I’m learning new things everyday.
Nice avatar of 玄仁(현인), by the way. (See I learned about him today)
Toru,
Are you sure?
I think I’ve read that there used to be a Korean tea ceremony, but that it was lost to history until sometime in the 1980s when vending machines started to became popular in Korea. Isn’t the Korean name 원샷차?
Oops, it was 다례 not 차례. Sorry about that.
gbevers,
Historically, tea was strongly associated with Buddhism and Buddhists among east asia. In Korea, it was mostly limited to Buddhists in the beginning. And it lost to history when Korea banned Buddhism in Chosun era.
But I’am not saying there was no a Korean tea ceremony. I’m saying it was/is a totally different thing from Sado.
Now no-one knows what 다례 is like, while Sado was clearly established by this guy and then kept and refined by normal Japanese for hundreds of years.
alright, toru, i think you’re all right. as for the tea ceremony, here’s what little i know:
there indeed was a tea ceremony in korea though i cannot remember it’s purpose. it was usually performed by either the upper class or the royal court. there are artisans alive today schooled in the ceremony but i understand they are very old. i’ve seen some picures. it looked very tranquil.
as for your knowledge of 현인, i’m impressed! i love the way the guy sings ‘신라의달밤’(新羅の月夜), if you ever run across it, have a listen.
toru, if you are a young man, i apologize, but do you like misora hibari?
pawikirogi,
Gotta find a song by 玄仁(현인) somewhere then.
I’m 30 year old, but I know Misora Hibari. She is the best and only true singer ever born in Japan that I know of.
I primarily listen to Blues and Jazz, though. Today’s Japanese POP music is a garbage…IMHO
toru, your comments “but there was no custom/history of drinking tea among Korean people” and etc are entirely ignorant and clueless — two minutes checking around on the Internet would discover quite a long and deep history of it — i can only charitably assume you’re joking or being sarcastic (and if that is the case i will apologize for reacting as if you were being serious). I honestly find it amazing that anyone could sincerely even begin to think that.
Bishop’s “Korea and Her Neighbours” is an amazing tale of adventure but cannot be considered any kind of such evidence — the author just wrote what she saw and what she understood (through her Victorian-British lens) about what she saw, which is indeed mistaken in many places; she wasn’t an investigative scholar, just a traveler. She didn’t happen to visit a temple like Duryun-san Daeheung-sa or Jiri-san Ssanaggye-sa where the monks were growing and drinking tea, perhaps? Hardly means that Koreans had stopped drinking tea or had never done so, or had not had a long tradition of ceremony for doing so — that’s just absurd and dumb.
The Hanguk-chado [Korean way of tea] was at a relatively low ebb at that particular time, it does seem to be true — no surprise that she did not encounter it, or didn’t understand what it was when she did…
If you do indeed enjoy learning new things, you might start rectifying your opinion on this at the very popular-introduction level with my own humble web-pages on the subject, with many links and photos: http://san-shin.org/KGTea-1.html
…and then if further interested, Brother Anthony’s research on it is deeper and more authoritative. And that’s just in English; there’s infinitely more in Korean and i’m sure quite a bit in Japanese.
#2 AND #3—— TOO FUNNY
# 15,
Little known fact, but today’s elaborate Japanese tea ceremony owes a lot to Sen Rikyū, who was second or third generation Korean Japanese. Sen’s last name would be Korean Romanized as Ch’on.
#18
Little known “fact”? Please substantiate your claim from a reputable source! I didn’t expect to see the “Korean begot JP civilization” stuff coming from you…
No internet link, but I got it from here:
http://books.google.com/books?.....en+history
There is no pdf or viewable text from that book so I can’t provide a direct link.
#20:
Famous book. What does the book cite for the source? I checked Japanese sources, but no information about him being of Korean descent. His family name is actually “Tanaka”, and “Sen” he named himself. Some Japanese sources say his teahouse has Korean influences, which is not a surprise where you have “Korean Gate” style in Samurai castles. Also that his tea-ware was made by an artisan of Korean descent. I think someone expanded this information which evolved into an urban legend in Korea.
# 21,
One problem. That book wasn’t written by Koreans.
#22
Never said it was.
I’m sure scholars of Japanese history will find the claim ridiculous. That’s the problem I see. I’m sorry to see you don’t.
Which Japanese scholars would find it ridiculous and why would they find it so?
Would these same scholars deny Masutatsu Oyama and Masayoshi Son’s Korean heritage if they could get away with it intellectually?
Unless you are Ainu, most Japanese have peninsular roots. It’s just the degree that differs.
#24
So you think it’s the same level as that? Japanese intellectual revisionism denying its Korean roots?
Now you’re being arrogant.
“Would these same scholars deny Masutatsu Oyama and Masayoshi Son’s Korean heritage if they could get away with it intellectually?”
You don’t need any academic research on these two,since they said so themselves.
Anyway,I’ve never heard that version of “That great Japanese figure is actually a Korean in origin”.
Aceface,
Well then, buy the book indicated in # 20. It’s pretty freak’in interesting stuff.
In either case, I really doubt the whole tea thing was mentioned for no other purpose than ‘Here’s a fun factoid’.
that’s it. I’m looking for it at the school library.
#27
When it comes to Japan, it’s just too bad you’re no different from other guys you so criticize here. Stay in Japan for a while and get to know the place, or at least check out some expat bloggers there. It’s freakin’ different from what you perceive of it.
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