While discussing Donald Kirk’s Asia Times piece on the US beef protests, the Western Confucian — doing his best Doug Bandow — reminds Americans what they really should be taking home from all this:
Mr. Kirk suggests “that the protests could turn against the US bases, as in the past, and undermine the entire alliance - the goal of the political parties and labor unions at the forefront of Tuesday’s mass outpouring.” Bring it on! Americans need to realize that keeping South Korea as a vassal state, subsidizing its defense at the expense of our own economy, only fuels the han.
It’s a sad, sad state of affairs when you’re almost hoping for things to take an anti-American turn (for the most part, they haven’t yet, BTW) just so American policy makers can pull their heads out of their asses.
36 Comments
The reports like from the Atimes.com are so different from reports coming in from South Korea, where the protests are painted with rosy pictures. If something bad is to happen to Korea (like US boycott or an economic crash), I believe a lot of Koreans will be shocked. I don’t get the feeling that many know what an angry and fed up US could look like.
I hope that the US beef protests would be the catalyst for Korea’s eventual declaration of independence from the United States.
I found this article by the Joongang Daily helpful to get a picture
of the whole situation. I think it’s balanced. Nice site you have here.
http://joongangdaily.joins.com.....id=2890895
Netizen Kim, I think that’s what many Americans in Korea are also hoping too.
There is a maxim from LaRochefoucald that runs something like: The only thing worse than not having your wishes fulfilled is to have them fulfilled.
Good luck, Korea.
Be careful what you wish for.
To be honest, I really don’t think there’s enough public awareness here about South Korea and beef to induce anything drastic. NYT, WP, Economist, and all other U.S.-read publications seem to be focusing on how the underlying motivation of the protesters is anti-LMB, and barely mentions the actual beef issue.
I’m guessing that the people here are a tad more concerned about the economic recession, Iraq, Gas, and presidential election than, say, U.S. beef industry and South Korea. Which is why I’m really wondering if some people here actually have stakes in U.S. beef industry.
American mad cow beef might the the trigger point for these rallies, but now, it is not the only main reason. There are undercurrents in which many SKians feels their government always put American interest above theirs. For example, few years ago(?), SK was goign to buy war planes from Europ or Russia but the americans forced them to buy their planes instead. And now, american mad cow beef.
Amercian mad cow beef was only a trigger, but I think South koreans really want their government to be more independent of the US and to heed their concerns and govern for their own countries interest.
If Korea becomes independent, maybe some of its illustious exiles, such as Netizen Kim, will be repatriated and lead the fledgling nation to greatness, a la Syngman Rhee.
Not only is there little awareness in the US over the beef row, but what awareness there is amounts to puzzlement why it’s become such an issue over there. Shoulders are shrugged and then discussion returns to the Celtics v. Lakers rivalry, gas prices, and why there’s no tomato in my Big Mac.
Korea will remain off the radar for most Americans, protests or no. It’s the policy makers who will determine the future of the alliance. Obama is more likely to pull up the stakes than McCain.
so many of you tell us how the us needs to get out of korea but how is it that it seems only you folks know the reasons why?
koreans should not feel insulted that americans know very little about them since americans know very little about the world beyond us borders. that’s why we have people in government. and it’s those people who’ve decided that korea is needed for us policy. they know why we’re still in korea.
so many of you do not because of your emotionalism. take away your patriotic emotion and you will see much.
I suppose those same people know why it was good for us to go to war in Iraq.
And they also knew why Syngman Rhee was better than Kim Ku. And so on. Riiiiiiiiiiight
Our govt. officials by and large have no more nuanced knowledge of Korea than citizens who have lived and worked there. This has caused them to make numerous blunders and they will continue to make blunders. One of their primary errors is to project and attribute American ways of thought, etc., onto Koreans.
“If Korea becomes independent, maybe some of its illustious exiles, such as Netizen Kim, will be repatriated and lead the fledgling nation to greatness, a la Syngman Rhee.”
How did you know about my secret fantasy?
“Korea will remain off the radar for most Americans, protests or no. It’s the policy makers who will determine the future of the alliance. Obama is more likely to pull up the stakes than McCain.”
Probably. I’m just saying… don’t expect any grassroot movement out of this. Policymakers won’t be pressured from the public to do anything in this issue in U.S. is what I’m saying, I guess.
This hasn’t reached alliance-shaking levels yet, and if it does, this argument is still good;
http://atimes.com/atimes/Korea/HI09Dg02.html
USFK hasn’t been in South Korea for the North Korean threat for a long time, all that planning and all those exercises aside.
From the coverage I’ve seen in the US, at worst, it looks like just another trade dispute.
The Koreans writing for the AP and Rueters have done an excellent job of covering South Korea’s ass.
An American viewer who had no familiarity with Korea would believe that these protests would have come about whether the beef was from Canada or England and/or that they would have erupted over something else because it is all about Pres. Lee….
….It’s horseshit.
But, when you start seeing a fair percentage of the K-blogsphere kinda agreeing — all hope for reason is lost….
This is most definately about stoking Korean national pride —– and one of the most time-honored ways of doing that is — beating the hell out of the US in Korea.
You don’t need firebombs tossed over the fence line at USFK bases for this to be about anti-Americanism….
US reticence in mentioning the Korean US beef issue may also be a bit protectionary. It wouldn’t help domestic markets much by reporting the mass hysteria overseas.
“It wouldn’t help domestic markets much by reporting the mass hysteria overseas.”
There is mass hysteria in one country only.
The main reasons for any US reticence is the Vershbow effect — any statements will be mistranslated, taken out of context and used to fan more flames. Rinse and repeat.
The face of the protest is about the beef and the rest is politics, whether Anti-Lee or Anti-US.
I’m not going to say US policy is the sole cause, but prior to this brouhaha, there were strong feelings about the alliance, even prior to Kim Dae Jung. Of course I would like our forces brought home, but not as a retaliation for these protests or attacks on the bases, but rather as a correction to our intervention.
Blowback - Unexpected or undesired results of our government’s actions.
The Anti-US aspect of these protests are just the latest in a series of blowback. If we remove the military, we remove a target for the pro-North protesters. We’ll also remove a crutch and force SK to stand on it’s own. Let’s mind our business, and if something ill were to happen, we will/must not intervene.
I agree slim, but I still think American beef producers have little to gain domestically either.
I am sure if the American public were more aware of the Korean situation/reaction towards US beef, a few Americans would wonder if they themselve might not best be more cautious regarding the safety of their beef products (albeit unfounded as their concerns might be).
What does the American market stand to gain by publicizing the hysterics in Korea over US beef ? As you mentioned, it would simply fan the flames here in Korea, and as well perhaps raise a few red flags at home.
Contrast this well written and informative article with those written by Koreans working for the western press. The western press is doing itself a huge disservice by relying on natives to tell the truth about Korea. Agree with earlier commentator these Koreans seem to be working for two masters, the western press and white envelopes stuffed with cash to cover Korea’s ass.
Although, Choe, in his latest IHT piece finally got around to addressing nationalism, and some of the raw issues, it does not come close to the informative and balanced nature of Kirk’s article.
Additionally, reading the Koreans apologist in the Western press, one would get the idea, that these were spontaneous demonstration, they suddenly just happened. Not well orchestrated and organized.
Its worth noting, from the start, there were adults that dragged middle school students to protest. At the start, there were numerous printed Lee Mun Bak Out signs everywhere and at every rally. One protester organizer asked me if I wanted to hold a sign. I politely declined. There was a planned misinformation campaign from the start.
A real journalist, might ask questions like who is behind this, how did they get started, what are the economic motives of these people, how is anti Americanism used to achieve their economic and political goals.
A journalist might notice a pattern of this happening often in Korea.
One might mention what the North Korean position is and how it matches the desires of the organizers of the protests.
There is a lot of investigative reporting to to be done here,(not the MBC type) but instead what we get is, the people are unhappy with 2mb. Koreans are concerned about the safety of US beef. USA had a case of mad cow in 2003.
Although, when I read AP reports, it seems all stories are written by Koreans about Korea. It does not seem to be the case with other countries that the natives almost exclusively write the reports about their countries. Why does this happen in Korea?
Is it because of the language barrier? Is it because of little US interest in Korea? Is because most of the US elite with foreign experience spent time in Europe or Israel? and have no knowledge or experience in Asia?
When the French demonstrated against the Olympic torch, it was widely reported all over the world. When the Iraqis demonstrate against the USA its on the nightly news, Koreans protest the US and the US economic interests in Asia, and elected officials and national media spew anti american hatred and lies and the western press reports”they are concerned about the safety of US beef there was mad cow in 2003″
Nothing about the rampart anti americanism in the country, nothing about the false information and lies being spread by the Korean media. Nothing about how similar event s happened in 2002 and the leftists were able to occupy the Blue House because of it.
The Western press should just stop reporting about Korea altogether if its just going to print propaganda about Korea. Save some money and just pick up the North Korean version of the news.
Kirk has been flying in here for over 30 years and has yet to learn the language. Helps keep him objective, I guess.
You have lots of questions Grasshopper, wax and wane, wax and wane.
This is the latest article that I’ve seen on Yahoo! Apologies in advance for the long post, but for some reason, I can’t post a link!:
SKorea’s leader vows new start amid US beef crisis
By BURT HERMAN, Associated Press Writer 49 minutes ago
SEOUL, South Korea - Humbled by weeks of anti-government protests, South Korea’s president said Wednesday his administration would seek to make a new start as one of his ministers again rejected calls to renegotiate a U.S. beef deal that helped spark the rallies.
Lee Myung-bak took office in February, but his popularity sank over botched political appointments and privatization plans. An April deal to resume U.S. beef imports caused simmering public anger to boil over due to a perception that he failed to consult the public.
Weeks of rallies culminated in a gathering of some 80,000 people Tuesday in Seoul, the largest protest so far, where barricades of shipping containers blocked crowds from marching to the presidential Blue House.
Still, officials in Lee’s government stood firm Wednesday in refusing protesters’ calls to renegotiate the beef deal.
“We’re not considering a renegotiation,” South Korean Deputy Trade Minister Ahn Ho-young told reporters. “If we break our promise, the consequences are enormous. South Korea will become an unreliable country.”
South Korea was the third-largest overseas customer for American beef until it banned imports after a case of mad cow disease, the first of three confirmed in the United States, was detected in 2003. Protesters contend the import deal doesn’t do enough to address their health concerns.
The Bush administration said Wednesday it will not renegotiate the deal.
The U.S. has “national protocols that we have negotiated with the Korean government and we do not intend to renegotiate those protocols,” said Deputy Secretary Chuck Conner, the No. 2 official at the Agriculture Department.
Lee was still weighing whether to accept the resignations of his entire Cabinet, which offered to step down Tuesday to help stem the political crisis.
However, Lee told businesspeople during a meeting at the presidential office that he was concerned the resignations might cause “a vacuum in state affairs” as the country faces rising oil prices and other economic difficulties.
Local media reports say Lee will reshuffle a few key ministers connected to the beef issue, which would not affect his ability to serve his five-year term. The South Korean political system vests strong authority in the president’s office.
Still, he pledged that “the government intends to make a start with a new determination.”
As one way to restore his credibility and mandate, some media have reported that Lee is considering naming as prime minister his popular chief rival in the ruling party, Park Geun-hye.
The daughter of assassinated military ruler President Park Chung-hee, she came in second to Lee in the conservative Grand National Party’s presidential primary last year.
Such a move could be likened to U.S. presidential candidate Barack Obama choosing Hillary Rodham Clinton as vice president.
Presidential spokesman Lee Dong-kwan said nothing has been decided in the Cabinet reshuffle, though Park’s appointment was one of the ideas under consideration.
Tuesday’s protest was staged as part of nationwide rallies tied to the anniversary of pro-democracy protests in 1987.
Lee was arrested in 1964 as an anti-government protester. He got a suspended sentence, a criminal record that he once feared would prevent him from getting an entry-level job at Hyundai at the start of his salaryman-to-CEO success story.
“I had a lot of mixed feelings watching last night’s street rallies,” Lee said. “I myself participated in pro-democracy activities as a student in the past.”
Lee agreed to the beef deal in April as part of his campaign pledge to foster warmer ties with Washington and also to help aid passage in the U.S. Congress of a broader free-trade agreement with the United States.
Key American lawmakers had said they would not vote in favor of the free-trade deal — which also needs to be approved by South Korea’s legislature — without a reopening of South Korean markets to American beef.
The article posted from the Joonang daily was indeed fair, however, anything authored from the enemy’s propaganda machinery will be met with disbelief from those whose views are the heartbeat of the protests. This includes, the Donga ilbo, Chosun ilbo, and even the English dailies; Korea Times, and KOrea Herald. These organizations are all somewhat complicit with the enemy ,2MB and the GNP.
The Western media has tried to understand the situation by describing the narrative in terms of a loose confederation of minor protests mired in the frustations of a sagging economy, responding to an obdurate president. TThe beef issue has been portrayed as a thing that only instigated, as though the current state of affairs was inevitable, and only a catalyst was needed to get things moving. Thirty month old cows play only a small role in the story. This is a mischaracterization.
Thirty month old cows are the main course in this b- movie. The pied piper has played his song on Daum and Naver, and has convinced all the children that America intends to poison them with all their poison cattle over the the age of 30 months. Delicacy of words or thoroughness of arguementwill neither persuade the chilren of the meat’s safety nor convince them Americans eat cows over 30 months of age. Nothing will abate until this meat deal is renegotiatd. Period.
“Impeach Lee Myung Bak!” are the latest shouts. More and more talks of impeachment is coming, and will come out as long as this stalemate drags on.
How about Korea under another leftist president like Sohn Hak Kyu?
I can see another 2nd Economic crash since 1997 in the horizon.
On July 10th, there were also protestors who are against the anti-US beef (anti-Lee, anti-US) protests, and they were abused, ridiculed and even hit by the angry crowds.
What’s even more surprising is Korean media never reported any of this. What a fascist country.
I agree with “usainkorea” here. I noticed that the initial report on the gas rebates had an important change in the first title used so that it was less alarming.
Oops, I meant June 10th, not July 10th.
Per “knox”s comment:
Yes. This time, Korean netizens have attempted to target the three largest papers as being unreliable and “not with the people”, which is to say there is a far more organized attempt to co-opt the dominant media outlets. This is part of what I have observed as being an on-going war of propaganda in Korea. I only wonder who has been teaching the super-nationalistic leftist these sly tricks.
I note a continued theme, that of the safety of things Korean vs. the tainted goods from the West (America in particular). One can find the same ideas in political blogs that are pro-North Korea:
The quote was taken down from “nodutdol.org”, which was mentioned in an earlier open thread. This “purity vs. impure”, “us vs. them” theme keeps cropping up in different keys and tempos.
American “Madcow” and LMB = impure, ? = pure
Richardson #15, did you write that article that you link to yourself?
I find it tough reading. It seems to suggest that if USFK left then Korea would need to ramp up its military spending so that it could unilaterally defend itself from an attack by China. That’s just impossible.
Take Finland for example. Post 1945, one could have argued along similar lines that Finland needed American troops or at least NATO membership to protect it’s market economy and democracy from the USSR. But it didn’t.
Korea is in a much stronger position than Finland was in the Cold War and China has shown less agressive intent towards Korea than the USSR showed towards Finland.
If the Taiwanese can deter the PRC with only vague assurances from the US, then I suspect the Koreans can as well. I also see no real reason why the Chinese would want to shoulder the burden of occupying a collapsed North Korea. But maybe you disagree?
Arguably what is most responsible for the rapid increase in Chinese military spending is their observation that the world’s number one military spender has military outposts all around them.
The Second China-Japan war (WWIII) in 5 years.
Taking troops out of Korea may even shorten the wait to 3 years.
‘The Second China-Japan war (WWIII) in 5 years.’
who would win such a war?
Pawi,
If Korea sides with Japan again, I think Korea and Japan might.
Don’t let Bush fool ya into thinking American leadership are fools, that man’s a genius at it. American leaders (esp. the ones you don’t really hear about) are the craftiest businessmen in the world, and regardless of these petty protests, so long as they can do their trading with Korea, they could care less.
“It’s a sad, sad state of affairs when you’re almost hoping for things to take an anti-American turn (for the most part, they haven’t yet, BTW) just so American policy makers can pull their heads out of their asses.”
It’s even sadder when you realize it’s going to be a cold day in Hell before American foreign policy makers get thier heads out of their asses.
I just came upon this news when I saw a local Korean news on the international channel and I’ve been reading up on it. My take is that the US should just leave Korea like the Philippines, just leave. Koreans can take care of themselves, they have enough national pride to overcome their enemies. So when Kim Jong-il address the united Korea, everyone will be happy!