Choe Sang-hun has finally weighed in with an excellent summary of the current protests in Seoul:
… protesters said they saw in the way their leader, nicknamed the Bulldozer, reached a beef deal with Washington signs of an “authoritarian leader,” out of touch with common people and “tone-deaf.” They accused Mr. Lee of being too eager to please the United States, even at the expense of the health of his own people… “The most serious problem for the president is that he has lost the people’s confidence,” said Kang Won-taek, a political scientist at Soongsil University in Seoul. “People do not trust what he says or what he does.”
Mr. Kang could add arrogance and the failure of Han-nara to affect political reform to his list, IMHO.
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You guys are so embarrassing.
Wow. Look at Gwanghwamun tonight. Unreal.
Saw this on CNN:
“President Lee hasn’t listened to the voices of his people. We still don’t have a genuine democracy in our country,” said Jang Dae-hyun, a spokesman for a civic group that has organized protests.
I wish I could tell him to go to NK and hang out with his buddy KJI.
In America it isn’t a genuine democracy either after 200+ years. We still have Presidents that come into office after losing the popular vote.
But hey, I guess Jang Dae-hyun wants the cake and eat it too after only 20 years of democracy.
Ah, as happens with protest movements, things are getting diffuse enough that this will mainstream away into meaninglessness. Just when this gets the largest and becomes akin to a festival (which is the feeling I got on the way home from work in Myeongdong today), that’s when the “movement” will fizzle into nothing.
As soon as people start demanding everything from impeachment to school reform to disabled people’s rights to anti-corruption campaigns (all valid causes, but…), people will realize that this isn’t going to help anything. And even if impeachment were possible in this case, it’s still not going to actually help.
Now that’s it’s bloomed and peaked, once people have had their fill of “the beauty of democracy” and pleasant walks down and around a closed off Kwanghwamun (and the police did such a good job today, and it was so well planned, it was like World Cup, but with the added excuse that it’s for a good cause.
I don’t know about other folks, but half of my office went down there to spectate tonight, it seemed, more than to actually participate. People were talking about how many people were going to be there and how this was a must-see event, more than anyone expressing any strong political desire. One co-worker was marveling at the efficacy of the container boxes that had been greased up to prevent people from climbing up. I also had to admit that this was pretty clever.
Once it’s bloomed to the point of spectacle, and if it’s true many of the people in the crowd say they actually WANT a free trade agreement, isn’t this all but over, even if the cows haven’t come home yet?
It’s Kwanghwamun circa April 2003. People are having their say, getting it out, venting, and getting ready to return to life as usual. I think this is a good sign. And I give this about another 4-6 weeks before the protests die down to the core anti-FTA folks, a few hundred at a time, at most.
That’s my bet. What do others think?
The numbers may decline but the violence and intensity will increase — for sure.
If “Lee is out of touch with common people,” then the common people in Korea are ignorant and ruining their chance of improving the economy in the long run.
They have a lot higher chance of dying from food poisoning than from mad cow disease. FOB’s in the U.S. are also watching Korean news and documentaries, and they have joined the protests in Los Angeles, Washington DC, etc. This is really stupid considering the fact that they purchase and consume U.S. beef anytime they go to Korean restaurants and supermarkets in the U.S.
As a Korean living in the U.S., I don’t understand why they use “candles” to protest and I wonder if they really understand basic economic and diplomatic principles.
Arrogance and emotionalism toward the U.S. aren’t the best way of dealing with the situation. Seriously, they shouldn’t be out there protesting like that if they really care about improving their country and economy.
Elgin, don’t tell me you’re buying into this crap that it’s about Lee’s government mismanaging.
This sentence in the NYT article takes the cake:
“But his current trouble shows that South Koreans’ patience was wearing thin.”
Patience is wearing thin, after 100 days? You have got to be kidding me. This is “patience”??
NYT is against anything that Bush does on principle. Or rather, regardless of principle. It’s obvious in their sophomoric editorials.
So it doesn’t matter whether it was a good deal or not. NYT will fan any existing flames and pass out gasoline and matches where their “ain’t”…
Similarly, in Korea, 99.44% of protests are ritualized cathartic exercises designed to show the North they’re nor “Western puppets” and show the USA how much they despise us. While wearing Levis, drinking Coca-Cola, eating KFC Chicken, and driving around in cars produced by American corporations.
Right.
Sadly, the only winner in all this is KJI. He’s still alive, thinks he’s loved, and his efforts to drive a wedge between USA and ROK are succeeding…
Yes, Koreans support a free-trade agreement with the US, as long as all the trade is one way.
CM has said the same thing I was going to say. How can people expect President Lee to fix in just 100 days the mess that Roh Mu-hyun spent five years making? Of course, the finance minister Lee picked seems to be somewhat of a goofball, time warped to the present from sometime in the 70s.
The protestors are idiots because the beef deal was necessary to get the trade agreement that would help Korea get out of its economic slump. The fact that this protest started with middle and high school kids protesting US beef imports should be a clue to just how manufactured it was. Does anyone really believe that the students got the idea all on their own?
I think the only way Korea will be able to break the cycle of shooting itself in the foot every few years is to get rid of Korea’s pro-North, goofball teachers who are filling the heads of South Korean kids with North Korean juche goo, but the likelihood of that happening is next to nil.
Also, the US government is stupid because pampering does not work with Korea. The only thing that works with Korea is tough love.
Today the NY Times…tommorrow network news?
How about making this a campaign issue?
Let’s get Korea in the news for a change (or is it only North Korea that makes the news?)
This might perhaps be the stupidest anti-US period I can think of. It has gotten beyond the point of ludicrous.
I thought it was predictable the society would get back to more normal anti-US activity with the threat of Roh actually putting those thoughts into effective government policy, but this really does take the cake.
The man was in office some 60 days or so before this shit got going!!
Roh had 5 years of bumbling about – doing things against the magical “will of the people” — like sending troops to Iraq — and his administration did not produce squat on the protest front. Nothing remotely, remotely close to this.
For example, what about the land reclamation project? That got bad press. That was pushed by an already highly unpopular president (Roh). Why no million man march on that? — or troops to Iraq?
This mad cow nonsense is pure shit.
From the willful ignorance over the danger of the beef (like the danger from the 2000 water dump case) to those who want to tell you with a straight face that this has much to do with how badly President Lee had done his job – some 60 freaken days into his tenure…
Lee and the GNP were elected with an overwhelming majority.
Roh barely squeaked by.
Lee has done nothing that was not inline with policies and even style he had demonstrated well before the election.
Roh was a fairly unknown character who started stumbling fairly early in his tenure and earned the disapproval of both his (leftist) base and average Koreans.
But, this is about Lee….
….this is about his arrogance…
Horseshit.
This is about Korean society getting a chance to vent now that the Blue House is secure and stoking Korean nationalism up to a high degree to feel good about themselves and their power.
it seems are best newspapers and magazines are getting it right:
‘As tens of thousands of people waved candles in central Seoul and other South Korean cities, a month of street demonstrations against the purported danger of U.S. beef broadened on Tuesday night into a populist backlash against the country’s fledging president, Lee Myung-bak.’ washington post
‘But the size and scope of the protest dramatizes problems that go far beyond that of simply beef.The protests reflect discontent with “a lot of national issues,” including high unemployment, education, and the economy, says Moon Kook Hyun, who campaigned for president on his own minority party and then was elected to the National Assembly. “The people are so disappointed. They have no other way to express themselves.” “Thousands of students are here to protest his educational policy,” says a teacher, Kim Haeng Suu, accompanying other teachers and students from a nearby school. “The students say they have no voice in the system, and he only cares about education for the rich people.” ‘ christian science moniter
‘Yet, some Chinese experts on Korean issues seem to consider South Korean farmers’ strong resentment against the government’s policy that caused them considerable economic losses as the primary cause for the cabinet’s resignation. “As South Korean farm products and beef are rather expensive and not competitive on domestic and international markets, the country’s farmers strongly oppose the imports of these products,” Yu Wanli, an associate professor from the School of International Studies at China’s prestigious Peking University, told Xinhua. He said he believed South Korea’s robust agricultural interest groups have played a key role in the ongoing protests and the cabinet’s collapse. ‘ xinhua english
‘Lee now appears to be reconsidering the hard-charging style that he displayed as the CEO at Hyundai. The forcefulness that worked at a conglomerate that has long epitomized Korea’s breakneck industrialization is being regarded as a liability and the mark of a leader who is deaf to public demands. In a meeting with Catholic priests on June 9, Lee admitted that he had made policy mistakes and hinted at a Cabinet shakeup. Already seven top presidential aides have offered to resign. Winning back the public’s trust won’t be easy for Lee.’ business week
Xinhua, the Chinese Communist Party’s official news agency, would not be on many people’s list of “are best newspapers and magazines”
That said, Xinhua’s quoted source does get the protectionist motives and narrow interests of the farm lobby right — without the distraction of the bogus health arguments that politically correct outlets feel obliged to include.
Slim,
Yes, it’s ironic, isn’t it? Sometimes a state-controlled, authoritarian press gives the more accurate picture than a free, democratic press.
“We still don’t have a genuine democracy in our country”
Well, no one has a “genuine” democracy. Every “democratic” country has a representative democracy with usually a federalistic system with an directly elected legistlative and (directly or indirectly) elected executive. Korea made their democratic choice earlier this year. To just have a very vocal segment of the population ask for LMB’s resignation is not “democracy” it sounds more like anarchy.
If the people protesting out there get everything that they want, it won’t be democracy either, particularly if it’s not done within the constructs of the rule of law.
I think about a week ago one of the protestors said something to the effect like “this president’s policies have failed the people.”
And I thought to myself wow how stupid are you to actually say something after the guy has been in office for just over 3 months.
It really shows Koreans are ignorant and lack common-sense.
The mass-produced signs (and headbands and so on), the large blocks of Styrofoam, and the unique-to-korea protest style would make me laugh… if it wasn’t for the Buddhists protesting…
Those Nancy-boys-in-gray don’t even eat meat, do they? This ain’t even their fight… Or is it? They set themselves on fire to protest the South Vietnamese resistance to Communism. They threw firebombs at police in Seoul a few years ago during the fight to see which group would control their HQ (and their budget)… Do they have a horse in the race or are they shilling for the fat guy with the bad hair?
Seems like they’ve finally managed to complete the the spiritual reunification of North and South Korea… too bad the people up North can’t even get rice to feed their children while the people down South are busy dumping crap on the only reason they aren’t eating grass soup… The USA…
I’d start looking into where the signs were printed and where the Styrofoam came from, looking into the financing… 5 will get you 20 it’s a well-known “NGO” with roots in Pyongyang… But it might be Beijing… That’s where the real power over there is anyway…
YMMV; but I am not that “ron’ry”
This is more about being part of the masses than it is about widespread political protest.
It is fashionable now to be part of the protests. Got to have the “What happened to you at the protest last night?” story else you don’t belong.
30 % of the protesters are merely spectators without cause conviction, 40% of the protesters probably think FTA stands for the Foreign Teachers Association, 60 % overwhelmingly voted LMB into office, 80% can’t afford to eat Korean beef anyway, 10 % are trying to get their picture in the paper, 15% are drunken men happy as shit to be able to cop so many feels without having to pay for the subway, 15% are directly or indirectly financially involved with the sales of Korean beef/candles/paper cups, and the rest were simply trying to cross the street to get home when they got swept away in the river of bodies impeding their way.
(I took the same liberty with my survey percentages as I feel is customary in the Korean press
They bolster the masses by wheeling in their babies in strollers, line elementary kids up on stage holding posters they can’t understand for photo-op sessions and wonder if they should be chanting anti-US beef slogans now, or anti-canal project slogans, or anti-LMB slogans or…
That’s why it is important to show up early for the protests, so you have a chance to figure out what it is you are vehemently opposed to today before you beat a cop with a pipe, set fire to something, attack a bus, then throw yourself against a riot police’s shield while the cameras are clicking and scream bloody injustice.
Who knew the teachers’ unions, students’ associations, and assorted other leftist elements could stir up such an agit-prop manure-storm over what boils down fundamentally to the farmers’ desire to keep the market closed?
When the North finally collapses, are all these seemingly deeply-entrenched leftist fifth-column elements in the South suddenly going to disappear, since their prime source of funding will be gone?
Well, clearly there is more than one reason why people are opposed to the beef imports (yes, it does have a ‘festival’ atmosphere. A lot of the young people are participating because it looks like good fun to them)…it doesn’t change the fact that some have very rational reasons to oppose the deal. They fear that bones and organs (which are not for sale in the US) will be imported. It’s simply not reassuring to these Korean consumers that American beef producers are saying that it would take time for them to be able package bones and organs for export.
“South are busy dumping crap on the only reason they aren’t eating grass soup… The USA…”
The US won the Korean War all by itself? That’s news to me.
All I can say in response to all this is, “Wow.”
Okay, I’ll say a bit more. What a staggering agit-prop manure-storm the leftists have stirred up this time, all over the cattle farmers’ (such as there are in Korea) desire to keep their market closed.
When the North finally collapses, are all these seemingly deeply-entrenched fifth-column elements in the South suddenly going to disappear, since their prime backer (and “moral” inspiration) will be gone?
…Or will the South in the meantime so completely succumb to the leftists that the North will in effect have taken over the South, if only in ideological terms?
It’s sad to watch Korean democracy implode over something that’s harder to get then being hit by lightening…
Yes I know that “it’s more then that” now, but you have to admit, it was the catalyst.
????????? Both supermarket chains and the Walmarts in my town sell soup bones, liver, and tongue. If you mean organs from cows older than 30 months, which cannot be sold under USDA guidelines, please realize that there aren’t separate slaughterhouses for exported meat, so anything Americans don’t eat, Koreans won’t be eating, either.
Monks in protest probably are not vegans. (Tibetan Monks are not vegans) Regardless, topic of day in our office is all about “Million” Koreans protest this morning (west coast US) Several people here expressed their desire to be there to suppor the “cause”!!! so I did my routine to support them.
Dae Han Min Gook!! Cha Cha-Cha-Cha Cha!!!
Namuamita
14 is right.
Choe is shamefully writing on behalf of Korea. He is a biased reporter. I find stories written about Korea by non Koreans much more honest in their assessment of what happens here. As long as western media outlets hired biased korean journalist, Korea will continue to hide the truth about the ugly side of what is happening.
“What a staggering agit-prop manure-storm the leftists have stirred up this time”
I’m not disturbed by the agitators as they are doing what’s expected of them. I’m more disturbed by the way how average Koreans get hooked line and sink.
“please realize that there aren’t separate slaughterhouses for exported meat, so anything Americans don’t eat, Koreans won’t be eating, either.”
Sonagi, not according to MBC, KBS, SBS, Hankypanky, and others.. they’ve been spreading poop that Americans will ship leftover garbage to Korea while they’ll save prime meat for Americans. If you think about it though, can you really blame those Koreans for getting mad, when they must depend totally on the local media for a steady diet of bleep fed to them?
“The most serious problem for the president is that he has lost the people’s confidence,” said Kang Won-taek, a political scientist at Soongsil University in Seoul. “People do not trust what he says or what he does.”
Is that more because of the policies or the lies, spinning, and general shit stirring of the pinkos?
Work in the area and I have to ask….Does anyone know where I can buy those madcow t-shirts??? I looked all over for them but no dice.
Two comments on this whole mess;
- Slightly embarrassed at spending so many years in Korean Studies, and;
- I guess the latest generation has figured out when to protest (finals).
Marmot – you still need to update your link to the Party Pooper, who has found a few interesting beef angles and demonstrated that some Westerners are not content to let the Korean lemming mob hog all of the embarrassment.
Wangkon – “THAN” not “then”, with all due respect.
And I just came back from the local Walmart, where they sell *gasp* beef kidneys and hearts!!! I’ll be on the lookout for locals dropping dead of vCJD.
I’m surprised at the size and duration of this spike, but I was looking out for something to get going once Lee and the GNP took over.
As I noted in other threads, I have argued that Korean anti-US culture is somewhat a game — something they play at to stoke nationalism — when they know it won’t come back on them.
With the anti-US President Roh out of office, having a “$uck Uncle Sam” field day became less dangerous to the society as a whole.
I truly believe — deep down — Korean society is actually reassured with Lee in the Blue House — that they believe he will end up doing the beef deal and other economic moves that can help the Korean economic relationship with the US and others —– that they are banking on him being a “bull” and not caving into what they are demanding — and that confidence in the conservative’s ignoring radical protectionism and whatnot — gives them the chance to relive the past – the time of opposing the authoritarian rulers — while enjoying the benefits of globalization.
This is Korea, It’s Different™. They eat meat, drink liquor, smoke, and play the sausage dance. But that’s only cultural. One has to respect cultural differences, after all…
From KH this morning: “Vigils show public distrust of Lee”:
“I just can`t trust (the president), who keeps changing his policy line. He is backing from his initial firm stance and making changes to the deal only after seeing the growing public backlash,” said Bahk Seo-hyun, 29, an office worker in Seoul.
“When he appointed rich ministers, he said it was not right to rebuke them just because of their wealth. But, he recently admitted that his Cabinet appointments were problematic. Completely ignorant of public sentiment, he has frequently changed his stance, further baffling people,” she added.
To most, this self-contradictory nonsense would itself be baffling. Read in the light of #36 above, perhaps not so much?
In any case, my feeling all along on this, from day 1, has been that (except for a not insignificant few) the protests are not a means to an end, but an end in themselves.
Last night’s “Forever the (1987) Moment” fest would seem to bear that out.
These protesters owe the ‘87 generation, especially the families of the students who died, a big apology, IMHO.
And who can forgive Koreans for taking all the dignity and solemnity out of candlelight protests (a travesty committed 6 years ago and compounded now)?
Slim, some (if not many) of those same 87 generation were out on the street too. They wanted to relive 1987 and bring back memories of that era and enjoy an afternoon protest with the boys and their family children included. Hell why not, also at the same time, protest the Lee Myung Bank government and their lack of democracy to boot.
Read it in one of the newspapers, I swear.
@17, that wasn’t the general population. It was liberals.
Regarding the comparison of protests in 1987 and now, “Slim” makes an important distinction herein. It is vile and a wicked thing to co-opt the efforts and symbols that came from the struggles against military dictatorship in South Korea. It demonstrates the cold calculation of the current leftist leadership behind these events, who are acting only out of political gain.
As the expression goes “imitation is the sincerest form of flattery”, how quickly does flattery become outright theft of honest hopes and vision of a previous generation.
The leaders of this current demonstration should be held accountable for their theft along with the leaders of Han-nara, who for their lack of vision, have so easily enabled this thievery.
Is Korean home grown beef not fed on US imported (partly) GM cow-food?
Hi,
all this beef talk is making me hungry.
do you have travel advice for north korea?
i just found this video that makes me want to go.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YVIBawHaQY
thanx
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