from an unexpected source:
Some people would not believe the Korean that Europe is more racist than America. Well, does this convince you?
No, it does not. Blogger Ask a Korean seems like a very reasonable, balanced, and fair-minded person, but this is an example of illogical inductive reasoning. The Die Tageszeitung cover on Barack Obama does even not prove that Germans, let alone Europeans, are more racist than Americans. It only shows that the editors and writers of the Berlin daily are insensitive to the offensive connotation of likening an African-American to Uncle Tom.
49 Comments
Well that is the common perception here.
yeah, don’t even try to tell me korea has the same kind of racism as germany. as i said before, the german government had to actually offer classes to germans on how to be friendly for the world cup. such was not needed for korea.
as for your implication that korea would have as mcuh racial violence as germany if it had as many immigrants isn’t proven by the statistics we have on the non existant violence of korean skinheads. perhaps, you can back your claim with fact instead of presenting what you believe as the truth.
btw, how many immigrants were in germany prior to the european holocaust?
koreans just as racist as germans? BULLSHIT!
btw, i would stand by the zeitung since it seems so obvious that they were trying to point out the irony of it all. people need to relax about the cover.
While reading many Korean newspapers, I realized many of the articles describe the US presidential election as “Black and White match”[1].
Not that I’m offended or anything, but… you don’t find that kind of expression out side of Korea and it also annoys me a bit.
[1] eg. “오바마 민주당 후보 확정 미 대선 사상 첫 흑백대결” from The Dong-a Ilbo or “‘변화와 경륜’ 세기의 흑백대결, 미국의 선택은? ” from SBS.
Not many, but Turkish and African immigrants weren’t the primary victims of the Holocaust. Comprising half of all Holocaust deaths, Jewish people were, and there was a large, integrated Jewish population in Germany prior to Hitler’s rise to power.
I did not make or even imply that claim. My point is that comparing racial attitudes of a multiethnic, multiracial country like Germany with a homogenous country like Korea is like comparing apple trees and pigs. They’re both living things and sources of food, but they’re not even in the same kingdom.
Koreans as an ethnic group are by far more racist than Germans in particular or Europeans in general, all things being equal; thus, the 1 million plus Koreans residing in the U.S. pose a challenge for Obama. “Korean-Americans” overwhelmingly and consistently vote Republican. And for the record and to exaggerate only slightly, you can count the number of liberal Koreans on one hand, despite all the liberal rhetoric. Koreans are toxically ethnocentric, period. As expected, and as an indirect admission of their racism, Koreans conveniently blame the West (esp. Hollywood movies) for implanting racial prejudices into their culture, but this is pure bull. Ask any black person who studied in North Korean prior to the collapse of the Soviet Union what it was like living there.
?? The Korean was comparing Europe and America; he wasn’t bringing Korea into the discussion at all, except by the fact his moniker is “The Korean”.
Whether he has a leg to stand on or not is another question entirely. Just throw the golfweek noose cover/lynching Tiger Woods reference (even though he’s more asian-american than african-american) into the pot and we’re back at even. . . one magazine cover does not an entire culture encapsulate, in America, Europe, Korea, or anywhere.
http://sports.espn.go.com/golf.....id=3201070
In your haste, you clowns misread the post. Who’s dumb now?
if the chosun ilbo had the same headline, i wonder how the poster and people in here will react.
“as i said before, the german government had to actually offer classes to germans on how to be friendly for the world cup.”
Got any details on the classes the Germans supposedly “had to actually offer” its people?
“such was not needed for korea.”
As in Germany’s case, true. There were some efforts in Korea to promote better subway manners and, like in Germany, to improve English language taxi service, but no real need for major educational initiatives to promote friendliness.
‘Got any details on the classes the Germans supposedly “had to actually offer” its people?’
look it up, it’s out there. since i only read major publications, it came from a major source. if i am not mistaken, it came from the nyt. in that article, they compared germany with korea/japan stating the german gov was giving classes to germans on how to be friendly to foreigners. they mentioned that k/j did not need to do such.
we all know why.
As for which group is more racist - opinion survey data would be useful and it may be out there somewhere. On a related point, Koreans sure are ignorant of racism in Germany, though. Just last night at VIPS, I noticed on the wall a group of historic photos. Curious, I went over for a closer look. On top, a shot of Abraham Lincoln, but right underneath, another picture of goose stepping NAZIs, with a NAZI swastika hanging from a building. What’s this strange Korean infatuation with the NAZI’s? I think Koreans in Germany who meet real NAZIs will be disappointed to find their feelings of admiration are not mutual.
‘오바마 민주당 후보 확정 미 대선 사상 첫 흑백대결’
what’s wrong with stating obvious? koreans haven’t learned the art of not saying what they really feel. obama’s race will be a factor in the coming election and we shouldn’t be afraid to talk about it.
toru, you do know that 첫 means first, right?
Koreans think Germans make more money than Americans.
@a-lethia:
You’re right, but the original quote is still illogical.
Our children are “mixed”. German and Korean, we moved here last summer. They got some racists remarks at school here, what never happened in Germany. But in the German class were four Turkish, two Ukrainians, and ohter nationalities. I would not compare the countries. And right in Germany there is violence based on racism. We are just concerned about their future here. Will they have the same chances after school. But this is more then ten years later and Korea is changing.
“the german government had to actually offer classes to germans on how to be friendly for the world cup. such was not needed for korea.”
That doesn’t mean Germans are racist or unfriendly. Besides, had you been in Korea, you would have seen the signs in the subway, the TV commercials, etc urging Koreans to smile more…and that’s just the tip of the iceberg.
Many Germans ARE racists.
Most Germans are UNFRIENDLY by nature.
Stop defending the white man.
ask a black dude who lived in Germany for 20 years, who always had to call his co-workers,
Herr,
Frau,
etc.
He said the only thing he liked was the
cars.
my brother, who went to Germany 2 summers ago said he didn’t feel anything racist,
but people WOULD STARE.
and, he was denied admission into a night club.
but, he liked the beer.
Hmm… Stared at on the streets? Denied access to some bars and nightclubs for being foreign? Sounds familiar. Not the part about good beer though.
Incidentally, there’s a hof in downtown Daegu called Uncle Tom’s Cabin.
“Besides, had you been in Korea, you would have seen the signs in the subway, the TV commercials, etc urging Koreans to smile more…and that’s just the tip of the iceberg.”
Since you brought me into it, I personally took part in a television roundtable discussion program (one of two token foreigners) during the build-up to the 2002 World Cup.
The topic for discussion?
What Koreans can do to put on a good face for World Cup visitors.
The show was just a small part of an enormous media campaign, I might add.
Once again evidence of Pawi talking out of his ass.
What else is new?
exactly, Seokso.
then, why is the white woman here and the white men here on barrage about
1/ It’s not possible for the German to be racist.
2/ Koreans are all racists.
?
Such a pile of horse shit.
Before the World Cup, there was a huge number of TV and radio ads and programs and billboards all about how to be polite. (don’t stare. don’t spit, say sorry when you shoulder check someone…) All of them were focused on how not to be an ass to foreigners, not other Koreans.
Some subway stations had government employees standing by the stairs with signs making sure that people knew about the new guidelines on how to be polite.
Interestingly, they’ve gone and given up one of the old World Cup Rules of Subway Politeness. Now, instead of “stand on the right and walk on the left,” they just want everyone to stand on the escalator.
I’m sure I’m reading the new signs incorrectly, but it looks like they say something about walking on the escalator being too dangerous for drunks, so we should all just stand.
One can have a lot of different experiences in Germany. I am not sure but looking different you make the people in Korea and Germany think: He/she is not one of us. Though they own the citizenship.
Also it can happen in Germany that you have to avoid showing that you are German beeing out very late in the night. Depends on who seeks a little prvocation.
Never been in the States but this type of thinking (one of us?) might be less there.
#13 pawikirogi
I just got the same response from a Korean at some Korean web forum.
“무엇이 문제인가. 흑인과 백인의 대결이라는 뜻인데”
I think “Black and White match(confrontation)” is inappropriate for describing the election in many ways.
Where are asian and hispanic voters in there? They also take a big part in the election, right?
Also, no one denies that Obama being a black won’t be a factor, but isn’t that against what Obama’s been saying all along? “There’s not a black America and white America and Latino America and Asian America; there’s the United States of America.”
Stating “Black and White match(confrontation)” in the media reports and headlines is like somewhat encouraging the confrontation.
Many(if not the most) Korean media (from The Hankyoreh to The Dong-a Ilbo) seem to be obsessed with Black skins. Or is it a race they obsessed?
In my society I wouldn’t need to explain why it’s inappropriate.. It’s just wrong.
trying to tell me that koreans are as racist and unfriendly as germans is just the expat lying to get his revenge. people should never forget that the expat will do whatever it takes to disparage the people who ended his lonely nights. poor little guy.
toru, i think you’re spending too much time on words. as an american, this will really be the first confrontation between a white and black cnadidate in a presidential election. and no disrespect to you, but your people are hardly the ones to be teaching others on how to respect other human beings. you see that guy in my avatar?
lastly, may i ask how is it you speak korean? it’s so rare to see a japanese person with this ability. usually, it turns out that a japanese who can speak korean is really some white guy who’s lived in both countries. am ponta not sure.
One can only hope that your lonely nights (and lying) will someday end.
Doubt it’s gonna happen though.
gets to you, huh?
pawikirogi, yes, I see your avatar. Are you saying I should pick 충렬왕(King Chungnyeol) who invaded Japan for my avatar?
Oh, it’s kind nice to be able to read Korean, English, Chinese, Japanese and little bit of Spanish. It really an eye opener.
And my passport has a Japanese flag on it, so I guess that makes me a Japanese.
Did I answer your questions?
gets to you, huh?
Your lies? Yeah, a little. Not for much longer though.
‘pick 충렬왕(King Chungnyeol) who invaded Japan for my avatar?’
as long as you are respectful to our royalty, why not?
have you answered my question? not really. i was wondering how you speak korean. of course, i accept that there are japanese who can speak korean but like i said, on these boeads, when you meet a japanese who can speak korean, the japanese turns out to be just a white guy.
my lies? where are my ‘lies’ on this thread?
btw, folks. relax. don’t take people you ‘meet’ on the net as if they really mean something to you in your real life. relax.
Oh Pawi, Pawi, Pawi…
You know that I’m not referring exclusively to this thread; and that you lie/misrespresent more than any “expat” you accuse of lying.
On that note, have a nice day skippy. And keep those comments coming.
Oh boy, I’ve never imagined that I’d say this, but.. I could show you my pics of my skin, if you wanna know??
#please forgive me if I ruin your(anyone here) day/night!
#24 pawi
Now that you mentioned your avatar, you should learn more about 柳寛順 from 任明淳, a historian at 天安大学 who has long been studing your heroine. You will find out what you were taught about her is a mixture of lies, half-truths and exaggeration.
The “Korean” usually has well reasoned thoughts, but sometimes I also scratch my head at some of the things he types, especially on the subject of racism. He once said that all Koreans were racists and that our “racism” was particularly disgusting.
He also believes that all national groups are racist to some degree, but that the U.S. is the least racist of nations. It’s all logic that can’t be quantified of course so you have to log that into the realm of just his opinion.
I had a conversation about him regarding his lack of distinction between degrees of racism. In my opinion, I think there is passive racism and active racism. Racism where you’ll just think less of a person and ignore them for their color, nationality, etc. or a racism where you’d actually do something about it such as discriminate or do violence. It’s like sins of omission and commission. Both are obviously wrong, but I’d rather someone avoid me then punch me. I told him that in this day and age, I believed Koreans were more passive racist then active ones. Meaning they won’t burn a cross on your lawn or send people to concentration camps. But they may not serve you in their restaurant or not look at your or talk to you or marry you.
Any ways, back to the topic at had. It appears he’s angry at the German magazine and has gone off on it with good intentions, but not with the best logic. He tends to generalize a lot, but that’s to be expected from someone with a blog called “Ask a Korean.” Generalizing (especially Koreans) has to be the main aim of the blog, doesn’t it?
I hope Yashiro Aki won’t mind the boorish commentary above next to her picture and name - She is definitely higher class than that!
I’m in the camp that Koreans aren’t more racist than Europeans, but I think people do blur the lines between ignorance and racism. Also, I wouldn’t say Koreans are less racist either though.
At any rate, if your comparing racism in Germany, it really depends on where you’ve lived as a visible minority, Berlin and Frankfurt of course is pretty good but head out to places with less minorities, and you will see a nasty side.
Hmm, and let’s not forget about this incident recently:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/t.....306476.ece
It’s not a unique experience, and I think both continents could learn something from North American PC views.
WangKon936, the Korean has never once wrote all Koreans are racists. You were reminded of this fact.
‘yashiro aki’
she should feel happy that a korean even knows who she is. as for her being classy, you got that right. don’t understand her but love the lady though it is really hard to find some of the music i heard from her.
one person not enough, natto.
Which country is more racist?
Simple…
How many non-Koreans were given Korean citizenship last year?
How many non-Germans were given German citizenship last year?
How many assylum seekers did Korea accept last year?
How many assylum seekers did Germany accept last year?
How many non-Germans have indefinite leave to remain in Germany?
How many non-Koreans have indefinite leave to remain in Korea?
How many non-Germans are supported through welfare and benefits in Germany?
How many non-Koreans are supported through welfare and benefits in Korea?
etc etc
asylum
oh, please, Marcus, they lost a fucking World War, where a regime obsessed with RACE as one of their justifications used to butcher people just because they weren’t white people.
they were coerced by the international community to improve race tolerance. Not because they wanted to. That’s a lie.
Germany uses systematic race tolerance education from early on, in children. They use all these social programs and keep accepting immigration from other races.
As my African friend has told me though, that’s all on the outside.
Turks live among Turks. Africans among Africans. Germans are inherently standoff-ish, they have their own uri-nara complex, and despite all that education and re-education, many are racists. (even though some forms of racist expressions are subject to prosecution)
Korea doesn’t do any of that, and people are LESS racist.
Go figure.
You would imagine the entire German nation would be blind to race by now, right?
Wrong.
Might be an exaggeration, but what happenned to Mr. Yonsei also happens in Germany, but this is by word of mouth, and not someone I know.
If you want a real fascist, racist country to pick on,
Pick on the People’s Republic of China.
You know, that country that’s trying to pull off the Olympics. It doesn’t deserve it.
meaning, Korea doesn’t even try to teach race tolerance, and the results are similar,
Germany or Korea.
stupid thing to say?
Really? You don’t deserve to say that, living 50 miles away from a major US city, to “protect yourself”.
Koreans live VERY CLOSE to downtown Seoul.
a Korean might have trouble telling if a Turk is not European.
But, a German white can readily tell.
that is racist, is it not?
@wjk
I think you misunderstood. I meant that being stared at and denied service is common here in Korea. I’ve never been to Germany so I can’t comment about which has more racism and, frankly, I don’t think it matters. Both have a lot. So does the US, where I am from. The fact that racism is a problem shared by many places doesn’t make it less of a problem.
A local korean sports paper (Sports Seoul I believe) described the 2005 World Series between the Astros and the Chisox as a battle between “Pure blooded Americans and mixed race”. The Astros position players were mostly white whereas the Sox were largely Latino. They featured player photos from each team to underscore that point.
The black versus white theme from the Korean newspapers is more than just stating the obvious. It derives from Koreans’ tendency to manufacture or observe a underlying conflict between two perceived opponents (usually some sort of superpower against the weak) that’s not necesarily there. Korean newspapers typically headline Korean soccer matches between “Us Asians / Koreans vs. European superpower”. Anything that involves Japan is self explanatory.
Someone mentioned that Korean Americans vote for the GOP party. Is it true? I always thought they leaned towards the democrat party.
#48 (lee):
I’ve also heard that Korean Americans (tend/ed to) vote for the GOP. The reasoning was that immigrants from immediately after the Korean War avoided the Democratic Party over fear that they might be connected to ‘communist’ ideologies. McCarthyism was still present in the States in the 1950s, so I can understand why they’d go for the GOP if that meant avoiding problems with the government. (Especially getting labeled as a spy and being sent to prison or deported to North Korea!) However, I’m not sure if this tendency to vote for the GOP still holds true for the Korean American community today. (Assuming it did in the past)