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	<title>Comments on: Politicians Pissed at Ambassador Vershbow for &#8216;Science&#8217; Comment</title>
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	<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/06/04/politicians-pissed-at-ambassador-vershbow-for-science-comment/</link>
	<description>Korea... in Blog Format</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 05:45:56 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: OneFreeKorea &#187; Anju Links for 28 July 2008</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/06/04/politicians-pissed-at-ambassador-vershbow-for-science-comment/#comment-175434</link>
		<dc:creator>OneFreeKorea &#187; Anju Links for 28 July 2008</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 11:44:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/06/04/politicians-pissed-at-ambassador-vershbow-for-science-comment/#comment-175434</guid>
		<description>[...] if not its elected leaders?  This is idiocy, especially coming from the party that did so much to inflame the nonsense, and which feigned insult at the very idea of testing the mob&#8217;s conclusions with scientific [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] if not its elected leaders?  This is idiocy, especially coming from the party that did so much to inflame the nonsense, and which feigned insult at the very idea of testing the mob&#8217;s conclusions with scientific [...]</p>
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		<title>By: How to Know You Won&#8217;t Die of Mad Cow Disease : Korea Beat</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/06/04/politicians-pissed-at-ambassador-vershbow-for-science-comment/#comment-159107</link>
		<dc:creator>How to Know You Won&#8217;t Die of Mad Cow Disease : Korea Beat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 05:39:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/06/04/politicians-pissed-at-ambassador-vershbow-for-science-comment/#comment-159107</guid>
		<description>[...] the air or a kiss, Koreans have already died just hours after having some, etc., and the likely deliberate use of mistranslations by opposition politicians &#8212; have put me in mind of Daniel Davies&#8217; classic post [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the air or a kiss, Koreans have already died just hours after having some, etc., and the likely deliberate use of mistranslations by opposition politicians &#8212; have put me in mind of Daniel Davies&#8217; classic post [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Inkevitch</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/06/04/politicians-pissed-at-ambassador-vershbow-for-science-comment/#comment-158852</link>
		<dc:creator>Inkevitch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 14:33:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/06/04/politicians-pissed-at-ambassador-vershbow-for-science-comment/#comment-158852</guid>
		<description>lumpen wrote "Well.. “learn” is not an expression that can be used by equal partner in korean culture. it’s not koreans but americans who has to learn. as an ambassador, he needs to learn what effect his comment will have. he doesn’t even know how to speak korean. he has to understand he’s not in russia anymore"

Actually there are very few ambassadors that speak Korean, The Australian one does and he gets props for that. No other Western ones do (I believe but maybe wrong).

Ambassadors tend to be high ranking Government officials from within the ruling party at the time of change over. How many do you think have actually bothered to learn Korean?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>lumpen wrote &#8220;Well.. “learn” is not an expression that can be used by equal partner in korean culture. it’s not koreans but americans who has to learn. as an ambassador, he needs to learn what effect his comment will have. he doesn’t even know how to speak korean. he has to understand he’s not in russia anymore&#8221;</p>
<p>Actually there are very few ambassadors that speak Korean, The Australian one does and he gets props for that. No other Western ones do (I believe but maybe wrong).</p>
<p>Ambassadors tend to be high ranking Government officials from within the ruling party at the time of change over. How many do you think have actually bothered to learn Korean?</p>
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		<title>By: james</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/06/04/politicians-pissed-at-ambassador-vershbow-for-science-comment/#comment-158849</link>
		<dc:creator>james</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 14:31:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/06/04/politicians-pissed-at-ambassador-vershbow-for-science-comment/#comment-158849</guid>
		<description>Yes, we Westerners must strive to understand the uniqueness (and implied superiority) of Koreans and Korean culture.

Unlike India, Greece, China, Italy, Japan, Egypt or Israel, Korean history goes back thousands of years.

Unlike Thailand, Cambodia, or the Inuit lands, Korea has a unique alphabet exclusively belonging to its own language.

Unlike the EU, Japan, Australia, Canada, Russia, China, India or Brazil, Korea has a heavily industrialized society with a large economy.

And of course, Korea is totally untainted by inferior foreign cultures, peoples and influences. That's what this beef issue is really about, dammit!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, we Westerners must strive to understand the uniqueness (and implied superiority) of Koreans and Korean culture.</p>
<p>Unlike India, Greece, China, Italy, Japan, Egypt or Israel, Korean history goes back thousands of years.</p>
<p>Unlike Thailand, Cambodia, or the Inuit lands, Korea has a unique alphabet exclusively belonging to its own language.</p>
<p>Unlike the EU, Japan, Australia, Canada, Russia, China, India or Brazil, Korea has a heavily industrialized society with a large economy.</p>
<p>And of course, Korea is totally untainted by inferior foreign cultures, peoples and influences. That&#8217;s what this beef issue is really about, dammit!</p>
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		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/06/04/politicians-pissed-at-ambassador-vershbow-for-science-comment/#comment-158826</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 12:50:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/06/04/politicians-pissed-at-ambassador-vershbow-for-science-comment/#comment-158826</guid>
		<description>Oh just a note. A few koreans take the time to look at the science surrounding BSE, or even the science of US beef, aka, the scientific methods and procedures the US uses to protect US consumer, as mentioned in the Pressian article. Didnt have time to read it all; thats a lot of scientific words in Korean I am not familiar with. But that wasnt what the ambassador was mentioning anyway. Most koreans are reporting all sorts of lies and damned lies that they are fed by the hysterical media. A lot of the koreans are trying to say 1) A significant portion of US beef has mad cow disease 2) the US intentionally sends mad-cow beef to Korea rather than keep it in the US 3) the US and americans dont care about food safety 4) Koreans will be forced to buy American beef 5) Korean cows genetically cannot get mad cow 6) Korea wont be allowed to stop the importation of cows even if there is a single case of mad cow in the US (which would be true, but this 'argument' itself should be laughed at). If the average Korean didnt believe/repeat this sort of BS, then maybe the US and Korea could come to some sort of compromise. Until Koreans stop acting like children (or latin american peasants, my preferred analogy) and start acting like concerned but adult citizens, Korea will continue to sully its name internationally with its hysteria.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh just a note. A few koreans take the time to look at the science surrounding BSE, or even the science of US beef, aka, the scientific methods and procedures the US uses to protect US consumer, as mentioned in the Pressian article. Didnt have time to read it all; thats a lot of scientific words in Korean I am not familiar with. But that wasnt what the ambassador was mentioning anyway. Most koreans are reporting all sorts of lies and damned lies that they are fed by the hysterical media. A lot of the koreans are trying to say 1) A significant portion of US beef has mad cow disease 2) the US intentionally sends mad-cow beef to Korea rather than keep it in the US 3) the US and americans dont care about food safety 4) Koreans will be forced to buy American beef 5) Korean cows genetically cannot get mad cow 6) Korea wont be allowed to stop the importation of cows even if there is a single case of mad cow in the US (which would be true, but this &#8216;argument&#8217; itself should be laughed at). If the average Korean didnt believe/repeat this sort of BS, then maybe the US and Korea could come to some sort of compromise. Until Koreans stop acting like children (or latin american peasants, my preferred analogy) and start acting like concerned but adult citizens, Korea will continue to sully its name internationally with its hysteria.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/06/04/politicians-pissed-at-ambassador-vershbow-for-science-comment/#comment-158821</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 12:35:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/06/04/politicians-pissed-at-ambassador-vershbow-for-science-comment/#comment-158821</guid>
		<description>I read the Korean part, and I understand 'how' it was mistranslated, and I think it was done so intentionally. Most Koreans wouldnt understand how to translate that specific conversational sentence correctly. Had the ambassador, there would have been no ambiguity. Either Sohn really doesnt know english (maybe), accidentally mistranslated such a key phrase (probably not), or intentionally mistranslated a phrase normal Koreans would not be able to translate themselves (Bingo).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read the Korean part, and I understand &#8216;how&#8217; it was mistranslated, and I think it was done so intentionally. Most Koreans wouldnt understand how to translate that specific conversational sentence correctly. Had the ambassador, there would have been no ambiguity. Either Sohn really doesnt know english (maybe), accidentally mistranslated such a key phrase (probably not), or intentionally mistranslated a phrase normal Koreans would not be able to translate themselves (Bingo).</p>
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		<title>By: lee</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/06/04/politicians-pissed-at-ambassador-vershbow-for-science-comment/#comment-158744</link>
		<dc:creator>lee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 08:38:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/06/04/politicians-pissed-at-ambassador-vershbow-for-science-comment/#comment-158744</guid>
		<description>Won Joon Choe

I don't know much about Mr. Sohn, and I have no reason to disagree with you. But I had good reason to be skeptical. I've personally seena few Asian students or even faculty in UC campuses who could hardly speak Engish. If you're knowledgeable in a certain field universaties will sometimes hire / accept you even if half of what comes from their mouth is sheer gibberish. 

Korean international students (from my own experience) speak just enough decent English to get by. They have to write reports and read textbooks in English, after all. But they don't understand it intituitely. They tend to literally translate their korean thoughts / expressions into English (verbally or on writing) and generally struggle with nuances found in the language. Drop a pun on them sometimes and you get a blank stare in return because their English never went beyond the barest of fundamentals. 

I was told that Kim Dae Jung attended an American Univerasity during his exile. I'm not sure for how long or at what capacity, but his English wasn't that great. Fobbish almost. I think it's quite possible for a Korean to spend 8 years at Oxford, Harvard or UCLA without comfortably mastering English, much less adapt to a foreign culture. 

But if Mr. Sohn was actually published in a British scholarly journal, then he knows English. So he deliberately chose to spin a statement that he was able to place in proper context.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Won Joon Choe</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know much about Mr. Sohn, and I have no reason to disagree with you. But I had good reason to be skeptical. I&#8217;ve personally seena few Asian students or even faculty in UC campuses who could hardly speak Engish. If you&#8217;re knowledgeable in a certain field universaties will sometimes hire / accept you even if half of what comes from their mouth is sheer gibberish. </p>
<p>Korean international students (from my own experience) speak just enough decent English to get by. They have to write reports and read textbooks in English, after all. But they don&#8217;t understand it intituitely. They tend to literally translate their korean thoughts / expressions into English (verbally or on writing) and generally struggle with nuances found in the language. Drop a pun on them sometimes and you get a blank stare in return because their English never went beyond the barest of fundamentals. </p>
<p>I was told that Kim Dae Jung attended an American Univerasity during his exile. I&#8217;m not sure for how long or at what capacity, but his English wasn&#8217;t that great. Fobbish almost. I think it&#8217;s quite possible for a Korean to spend 8 years at Oxford, Harvard or UCLA without comfortably mastering English, much less adapt to a foreign culture. </p>
<p>But if Mr. Sohn was actually published in a British scholarly journal, then he knows English. So he deliberately chose to spin a statement that he was able to place in proper context.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Koehler</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/06/04/politicians-pissed-at-ambassador-vershbow-for-science-comment/#comment-158710</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Koehler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 07:15:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/06/04/politicians-pissed-at-ambassador-vershbow-for-science-comment/#comment-158710</guid>
		<description>Pinocchio --- Do thank whoever linked me to the Jin Jung-gwon Gallery at DCInside. I tried to say thanks over there, but unfortunately, the 실명확인 function won't accept my 외국인등록번호. Oddly enough, I might be a rapid right winger, but I actually like Jin Jung-gwon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pinocchio &#8212; Do thank whoever linked me to the Jin Jung-gwon Gallery at DCInside. I tried to say thanks over there, but unfortunately, the 실명확인 function won&#8217;t accept my 외국인등록번호. Oddly enough, I might be a rapid right winger, but I actually like Jin Jung-gwon.</p>
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		<title>By: iheartblueballs</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/06/04/politicians-pissed-at-ambassador-vershbow-for-science-comment/#comment-158694</link>
		<dc:creator>iheartblueballs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 06:18:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/06/04/politicians-pissed-at-ambassador-vershbow-for-science-comment/#comment-158694</guid>
		<description>#78 &#38; 79:  Vershbow was being very diplomatic and speaking as an ambassador should with his comments.  In fact, he's been extremely restrained throughout this clusterfuck.

The fact is that the Korean public, media, and opposition politicians are regularly citing wild rumors, verifiably false information, and straight bullshit regarding US beef, BSE, vCJD, American consumption habits, and a whole host of other issues.

They have demonstrated overwhelming ignorance of the science involved in BSE and the actual risk to humans.  And given that fact, it was entirely reasonable for Vershbow to make the comments he did.  In fact, it would have been entirely reasonable for him to go several steps further and criticize the media and opposition directly for intentionally spreading lies to financially harm an ally.  

His restraint was admirable in how little he did say, as he would've been justified in opening both barrels given the bullshit involved and potential consequences on American business in Korea as a result.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#78 &amp; 79:  Vershbow was being very diplomatic and speaking as an ambassador should with his comments.  In fact, he&#8217;s been extremely restrained throughout this clusterfuck.</p>
<p>The fact is that the Korean public, media, and opposition politicians are regularly citing wild rumors, verifiably false information, and straight bullshit regarding US beef, BSE, vCJD, American consumption habits, and a whole host of other issues.</p>
<p>They have demonstrated overwhelming ignorance of the science involved in BSE and the actual risk to humans.  And given that fact, it was entirely reasonable for Vershbow to make the comments he did.  In fact, it would have been entirely reasonable for him to go several steps further and criticize the media and opposition directly for intentionally spreading lies to financially harm an ally.  </p>
<p>His restraint was admirable in how little he did say, as he would&#8217;ve been justified in opening both barrels given the bullshit involved and potential consequences on American business in Korea as a result.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Koehler</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/06/04/politicians-pissed-at-ambassador-vershbow-for-science-comment/#comment-158680</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Koehler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 05:46:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/06/04/politicians-pissed-at-ambassador-vershbow-for-science-comment/#comment-158680</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;You guys are missing the point here.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
No, I'm afraid you are.
&lt;blockquote&gt;What Vershbow has said about how Koreans should learn a little more about the science and facts of American beef is nonetheless rude. It is certainly a form of political intervention which lacks respect for South Korea and its people.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
It's not rude, especially coming after the foreign ministry telling him he was going to break an already concluded bilateral agreement. It's the official US position, and as US ambassador, it's his job to make that clear. It certainly isn't "political intervention" --- say, like the Korean ambassador to Washington asking Korean-Americans (US citizens) to reflect after the Virgina Tech shooting --- and it certainly isn't "disrespect for Korea and its people."

&lt;blockquote&gt;Sure, misinterpretation is a silly mistake and you can laugh at it, but the most important issue here is Vershbow undermining the candle rally as a mop hypocracy without science facts that support their arguement, which is not true by all means.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Firstly, nobody's laughing --- Vershbow's statement was misinterpreted, and one suspects intentionally for political reasons.

Secondly, regardless of what Pressian (hint: if you want to be a bit more persuasive, try linking to something other than the most left-wing and anti-American Internet paper in Korea. It's like me going onto one of your favored forum --- the Jin Jung-gwon forum at DC Inside, perhaps? --- and linking to the Chosun Ilbo) thinks, the US government thinks differently. And while, considering the much criticized performance of the Korean Foreign Ministry, you may find it strange to see diplomats vigorously representing the official views of their nation, Americans expect their diplomats to do their job.

Fact is that the attitude the US is showing is as "reasonable" as it's going to be. YOU just broke a trade agreement considered to be of vital importance to the United States. If the US were more "reasonable" like China, we'd be talking about slapping import bans on Korean cell phones. I'm being extremely reasonable --- if this mess continues, I want to see only punitive tariffs, not full bans. That's being "reasonable" --- a country targets one of your major exports for trumped up safety/cultural/등등 reasons, you target back. And just as the Hankyoreh tells Americans to accept the situation on the ground:

http://www.hani.co.kr/arti/opinion/editorial/291559.html

I ask that you, too, accept the situation on the ground. The Democrats have Congress and will likely soon have the White House. Do you think they will be as "reasonable" as the US is being now?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>You guys are missing the point here.</p></blockquote>
<p>No, I&#8217;m afraid you are.</p>
<blockquote><p>What Vershbow has said about how Koreans should learn a little more about the science and facts of American beef is nonetheless rude. It is certainly a form of political intervention which lacks respect for South Korea and its people.</p></blockquote>
<p>It&#8217;s not rude, especially coming after the foreign ministry telling him he was going to break an already concluded bilateral agreement. It&#8217;s the official US position, and as US ambassador, it&#8217;s his job to make that clear. It certainly isn&#8217;t &#8220;political intervention&#8221; &#8212; say, like the Korean ambassador to Washington asking Korean-Americans (US citizens) to reflect after the Virgina Tech shooting &#8212; and it certainly isn&#8217;t &#8220;disrespect for Korea and its people.&#8221;</p>
<blockquote><p>Sure, misinterpretation is a silly mistake and you can laugh at it, but the most important issue here is Vershbow undermining the candle rally as a mop hypocracy without science facts that support their arguement, which is not true by all means.</p></blockquote>
<p>Firstly, nobody&#8217;s laughing &#8212; Vershbow&#8217;s statement was misinterpreted, and one suspects intentionally for political reasons.</p>
<p>Secondly, regardless of what Pressian (hint: if you want to be a bit more persuasive, try linking to something other than the most left-wing and anti-American Internet paper in Korea. It&#8217;s like me going onto one of your favored forum &#8212; the Jin Jung-gwon forum at DC Inside, perhaps? &#8212; and linking to the Chosun Ilbo) thinks, the US government thinks differently. And while, considering the much criticized performance of the Korean Foreign Ministry, you may find it strange to see diplomats vigorously representing the official views of their nation, Americans expect their diplomats to do their job.</p>
<p>Fact is that the attitude the US is showing is as &#8220;reasonable&#8221; as it&#8217;s going to be. YOU just broke a trade agreement considered to be of vital importance to the United States. If the US were more &#8220;reasonable&#8221; like China, we&#8217;d be talking about slapping import bans on Korean cell phones. I&#8217;m being extremely reasonable &#8212; if this mess continues, I want to see only punitive tariffs, not full bans. That&#8217;s being &#8220;reasonable&#8221; &#8212; a country targets one of your major exports for trumped up safety/cultural/등등 reasons, you target back. And just as the Hankyoreh tells Americans to accept the situation on the ground:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.hani.co.kr/arti/opinion/editorial/291559.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.hani.co.kr/arti/opi.....91559.html</a></p>
<p>I ask that you, too, accept the situation on the ground. The Democrats have Congress and will likely soon have the White House. Do you think they will be as &#8220;reasonable&#8221; as the US is being now?</p>
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