Alright. I think most of you know that my personal opinion on the matter is firmly in the camp that the standard Korean viewpoint is irrational at best and economically damaging at worse.
But what about the standard Korean viewpoint? What is it? Do we know? Judging by some of the comments, some do and some don’t. So in the interests of being the devil’s advocate, let’s indulge in the other side for a moment. In a blog by a gyopo who came to the states in his teenage years (and still retains much better Korean reading and writing skills then most other gyopos), through researching a number of Korean language sources, he attempted to outline the Korean viewpoint in English.
For example, it’s claimed that the Democrats in Washington may have had some responsibility in this:
Once the agreement was finalized, it was submitted to each country’s legislature in order to be adopted into law…. However, once submitted to the legislatures, the political circumstances of both U.S. and Korea began to change in a way that made the ratification of FTA difficult…. As the U.S. economy was going further and further down the sinkhole, the Clinton campaign correctly saw that making economy an issue was a good selling point, and blaming the economic trouble on foreign trade is always an easy route to take for a politician…. Following her lead, certain Congressmen and Senators vowed that unless Korea opens up its beef market, they would lobby against ratifying KORUS.
(Emphasis mine).
In a section titled “Legitimate Concerns about American Meat and Korean People” he continues:
Also, unlike Europe, U.S. only requires sample testing of BSE instead of testing every head of cattle. The sample consists of cows that cannot stand or otherwise failed a physical test. Therefore, it ends up being that only .1 percent of 100 million cows in the U.S. are tested. This is mostly because testing every head of cattle is too expensive in America, where there are many more cows than Europe.
Another legitimate concern is that U.S. is lax in tracking the age of the cow. The 30-month mark is obviously critical. The most accurate method of tracking age is to tag every single head of cattle, but that only happens with 20 percent of the cattle in the U.S. The rest are checked based on teeth and muscle conditions; this method is reasonably accurate, but certainly less accurate than tagging.
On the other side, Korean people’s eating habits are unique in that they consume a lot of soft tissue. Bone soup… is a very popular Korean dish, and Korean barbecue invariably features ribs with bones. Korean people also often eat tripe (= stomach) and small intestines.
Overall, the blog entry tries to outline several viewpoints without being emotional on either side. It also outlines some interesting alternate reasons why the people are so upset at LMB (and it’s just not about the beef).
Hey, even understanding a position that’s hard to respect is a good exercise in being an open minded person so check it out. Then feel free to poo on it all you want (if you care to do so).
44 Comments
http://bbs1.agora.media.daum.n.....eId=481797
Almost all Koreans know the mad cow issue is a useful canard to mobilize every level of Korean society. It captures the imaginations of children and adults alike. Yet, these Koreans know the fight is really against the forces that have already eaten up America. Corporate feudalism with its police state. FTA will be the inception of supra-national bureaucracies seeking to supplant national sovereignty (such as what NAFTA and the Security and Prosperity Partnership has done to Canada, America, and Mexico). The transition from nation state to market state is being resisted. As ironically as it sounds, Koreans are the only ones resisting
neo-fascism, and still cling to constitutional integrity and national sovereignty. Unlike Koreans, the Americans took it in the butt — with a smile.
“Corporate feudalism with its police state. ”
I think Karl Marx will be happy to find that the above exists not in America, not Canada, not Mexico, not Korea,
but,
The People’s Republic of China.
and the Russian Federation.
Life is beautiful, ain’t it?
I like the Ask a Korean blog. They guy has a good sense of humor and is very frank.
In regards to the points highlighted, it would be a little easier to stomach if that is what mobilized the people - rather than the lies and fear that gripped the fools of the nation.
point 1 - arguable I guess. As an aside, how many industries have 100% QC testing? I really have no idea but I would suspect for many mass produced (rather than boutique style) goods that this is not feasible.
point 2 - fools logic thinking that exactly 30 months is a perfect threshold. Should not really have to explain that more.
point 3 - also ridiculous in the sense that using bones and marrow has been and will continue to be a popular way of cooking in the west. As for the intestines, that is one part where the protesters are correct in saying that the US would sell meat to the Koreans that they themselves would not eat. If it is a SRM they cannot export it even if they wanted to.
Perhaps they could be labeled quasi-legitimate concerns. Only one that really holds water is the first - which is more political than safety anyways.
mike,
that’s a bold assertion that koreans may actually be on the same side of the fight against the corporate empire.
it would be so much easier to assume they lack the awareness and will.
i might agree with your perspective on koreans fighting the good fight but i’m not sure i would dismiss my fellow americans yet…the war’s just being recognized
America has combat-booted, machine gun toting, black uniformed storm troopers for domestic police. A bit more scary than China’s government thugs. The American government can even legally rendition American citizens to black holes if need be, or let loose BlackWater Inc. on its own people. Domestic wiretapping and surveillance without constitutional controls goes uncontested. Yep, it’s the People’s Republic of North America. At least Koreans put up a fight for survival! Can’t say much for domesticated Americans and Canadians.
True dat about bones and marrow — they are especially useful when preparing a nice beef stock for soup. I sometimes like to roast up a pot of French Onion soup (onion soup is the best for the tummy in the cold, cold winter) but blanch at the cost of soup bones. In the States they used to be free!
ditto on #3 above.
makes me wonder why I (and apparently others) haven’t seen this one earlier.
Uh Mike, hey Mike! Please, feel free to translate all that into Korean and I’m sure, to a man, woman and child they’d be right with you until saying, “What the f are you talking about”. You are absolutely and I think willfully atributing a cerebral logic to a lizard-brained argument. There is not a single soul protesting who has ever, or will ever think of what you are saying without you planting into their minds. Feel free, but that certainly wasn’t the impetus and will not sway the bleating masses.
Thanks for a different perspective on this H.O.T. issue here in Korea right now.
I read it with an open mind.
Some of these points MIGHT have crossed about 2% of the protesting crowd that is causing 2MB to back down with a perfectly legal and well negotiated and re-negotiated trade deal.
So back to our regularly scheduled program.
F the retarded protesters right in their A.
Seen this before, after nights of xenophobic nationalistic rallies,stoking the fires of anti americanism to gain support,personal attacks on Bush and the US ambassador,then they back pedal to suggest that this is all perfectly understandable and right. Koreans are never wrong, they are just misunderstood. Some of us who lived through 2002 feel like its deja vu. Listening to and believing these fair minded individuals, one would be led to think that anti american sentiment in Korea is just a figment of ones imagination, there is only logical, critical reasoning going on in the ROK. Its too bad only Koreans possess the special gene that allows them to see this. No amount of Korean propaganda should work on intelligent people.
Its a slick game the Koreans play. One wonders if the Americans either do not care, or are just too stupid to understand it. I would suggest a little bit of both.
Slick? Slick as an enamel air hammer! This is as ham-handed as it gets, people.
They walk around spewing innuendo, propaganda, falsifications and lies. They shuffle around like crabs, pants down with both hands on their asscheeks peering out from between their legs and cry racism when we tell them their argument is not validated by volume alone. Put down the that emotion riddled mad-cow bible and quit ignoring the FACTS! Or don’t! But don’t continue to come in hear whining about us taking target practice on your innane arguments. Why do we not listen? I don’t know mister wizard. For the, I don’t know how manyith time, if your argument is so sound why do you continue to throw out the manufactured, bullshit tripe of an argument that has been produced from the beginning. I’m not going to list it again because my hands are tired of typing it over, and over, and over….
If you don’t get it by now, cool. Live in your own swill!
Koreans lie about the USFK and the US.
They lie about Japan.
They lie about Dokdo.
And They lie about US beef.
So, what should that tell you? It should tell you that Koreans put much greater value on nationalism than on the truth.
Koreans and Korean suckups can try to deceive people by trying to rationalize this beef protest in some other way if they want to, but there is just too much evidence out there that says that Koreans believe it is okay to lie if it is done in the name of “Uri Nara.”
These protests are being held to protect Korea’s beef producers, pure and simple. They are not being held to protect Korean consumers from “mad cow” disease. And Koreans have always had a soft spot for “the evil Americans are trying to poison our children” argument.
#13 is right.
Koreans do lie and censor the truth for uri nara. However, the only information about events in Korea is usually written by Korean or Korean American reporters. Thus, a one sided biased view point. Just read an account on time online, written by who else a Korean. Someone with no experience here would have no idea about the issues, the underlying anti Americanism and credence given to the demonstrators.
I nominate Robert as foreign correspondent for all foreign media in Korea. I do not always agree with what he has to say, but at least there is some balance and honesty to his opinions, that is when he is not writing his fluff pieces for local magazines. He seems to understand this country. He is not afraid to write what he thinks and give an honest opinion. This type of honest journalism is sorely missed here. If Robert it unwilling, perhaps Brendon earn a little extra cash, being the foreign correspondent. At 500k an hour, it can be hard to make ends meet.
where is the outrage??????
http://english.chosun.com/w21d.....40024.html
Two points that the Korean side continue to fail to address.
1. There are tons of bone soups, beef tripes and other beef organs consumed by Korean Americans, Koreans visiting America in thousands of Korean restaurants. Were there any concerns about that in Korea before this became a big issue? NO. Natta.
2. Granted the American beef inspection system is not perfect. But why are there no similar minutely critical look at Korean beef inspection and tracking system? The OEI puts Korea as a dangerous country for BSE because of its failure to monitor their beef industry - in other words Korea is given failing grades. United States, on the other hand, is given a passing grade. Now you tell me which country’s beef should be considered to be safer if you were perfectly non biased. Does Koreans even have the right to complain about US beef?
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/ww.....25317.html
This is the brightest and best people that Korea can offer. They are the future leaders of Korea. The future indeed looks bleak.
In the meantime, English Chosun has the article of impending collapse of Vietnamese economy and an IMF bailout - another ominous sign of 1997 all over again. This is simply not the time to be focusing stopping US beef imports.
This time, Koreans can forget about asking for help from “friends”, the way they have isolated themselves by insulting and demonizing all their ‘friends’. Korea doesn’t have any ‘friends’ left. What makes Koreans think that Americans shouldn’t get insulted when their products are being labeled extremely dangerous. What makes Koreans think that this is not about anti Americanism when everyday on TV, there are the usual anti American politicians and civic group leaders (who have always been the first ones there to ‘protest’ whenever there were accusations of American wrong doings), fanning the fire with their rhetorics?
It simply amazes me how all this is not registering in the main stream media. This is just wrong. We can’t pretend that everything is alright.
I’m with those who see this B.S. as mindless B.S.
Funny how there is an f load of B.S. behind the B.S. here:
1. Opposition Party pissing and whining b/c they lost the
election. 2. Korean press threatened by FTA’s requirement that
K braodcasting and media be opened up to outside companies
3. K. teachers scared shitless b/c of 2MB’s idea to replace their non-English-speaking asses 4. K. teacher’ s unions who hate the US anyway b/c
they are still ruled by quietly pro-Communist ideas from the 50’s and 60’s
(ever wonder why the NK sympathizers in SK prior to the K.War
took non-Communist teachers as targets for assassinations????? Also ever wonder why N.Korea offers special tours to NK for SK teachers???? [my teacher brother-in-law has been to NK 6 times!!!!])
5. K. beef farmers pised off b/c they can’t continue to rip off their Korean brothers and sisters 6. Dipshit school kids who just want a break from studying and after-school school 7. Dipshit uni kids who ain’t got nothing better to do; plus who protest b/c that is the “proper” way to be a uni student. 8. all the other dumb-asses who follow everyone else-so since eberyone else seems to be doing it, they figure they gotta do it too . . . . . duh!
Did I miss anything. (I probably did)
What a load of beef fecal matter . . . . . .
Finally, anti candlelight protest website appears.
http://nodemo.gg.gg/
http://news.chosun.com/site/da.....01456.html
anjinsan — Unfortunately, I think you’ve explained the situation perfectly. Just to add to point #2, I think the media — and MBC in particular — is more upset about 2MB wanting to allow major companies to enter the media biz and possibly privatize MBC.
We have some non-Korean Kool-Aid drinkers on this thread, too.
As Mike says, there is somethign to be said about the Korean willingness to make a stand, whereas most Americans have been pacified and lobotomized like Hindu Cows… However that says nothing concerning the irrationality and stupidity this entire issue.
My thought is this: Why dont Koreans sit down and remember what miserable filth they crawled out from? Since when was that country even so very into beef? Didnt those maggots, for centuries, cling to some strange notions of Buddhist vegetarianism (hence all the nah-mul)? For almost all of its lame excuse for written history, Korea has not had the luxury of even debating the QUALITY of their steaks/ribs/cowparts. It is unfathomable that these wretched serfs suddenly have pretensions that their thoughts and opinions matter more than a American cowpie.
Bottom line is that Korea is a peasant country with a peasant culture and this peasantry is easily manipulated by stupidity and superstitious idiocy. Korea deserves every single bit what fate befalls her, be it economic ruin, or extra-national takeover. Damn peasants should be happy to be eating beef period and not having to ship off their meat and virgin girls over to Japan. Or China.
This world is filled with backward peasant cultures that continue to plague the progress of Western society, yet since genocide has proved unacceptable, this stupid debate over nonsense, full of sound and fury and very little else, marches on.
I had one good conversation with a co-worker who mentioned that he was against the FTA for a reason different than most.
He said that beef sellers would immediately buy American beef, and try to pass it off an Hanwoo, and that no one could be sure what kind of beef they were buying anymore.
He then used an example of how this is already happening with Australian beef, because there is a serious discrepancy between quantity of Hanwoo slaughtered in Korea, and the higher amount of Hanwoo beef sold in stores.
Of course on a national level this can’t be blamed on the US, but on the other hand he wasn’t trying to. Rather from a consumers perspective, you might really get screwed when all of the super markets near you decide to “play the nationality card” publicly and claim that they won’t sell US beef, all they while they really are and pocketing the difference while you pay top dollar for corn-fed, hormone and anti-biotic laden meat.
As I write this, I’m watching more garbage spewed by MBC, KBS, and SBS News that are idolizing the protesters and “internet reporters”, and the terrible police that are supposedly abusing the protesters and democratic rights to protest. I can’t stomach any more of this.
I just don’t understand why the police just doesn’t disband and let the crowd go/do wherever they want. And once the mob start destroying properties, everyone will be wondering why the police won’t do anything to stop them and will start blaming the police. I feel bad for those young draftees who have to take this kind of abuse not just from the protesters, but also from the crooked media.
Ask a Korean is not correct about Hillary’s role here. Max Baucus and other cattle state lawmakers were WAY ahead of her. She, like her NAFTA-passing, China-trade-boosting husband, understands trade but pandered to those who don’t.
#18, Considering the number of students at SNU, and the small handful organizing that crawling display, I don’t think there’s a need to worry. The bigger worry is if the economy does collapse, they might be forced to sell their shares of America Inc., and I think they hold what, the 4th largest amount? That would be no good for anybody my friend…
Ohh, ohh, and Brezhnev! Don’t forget about him! That shoe slammin guy. What an… oh, there aren’t words.
WTF, Slim. He was almost a decade ago. Certainly the ground-swell for a senator from NY isn’t entirely responsible for the morass we find ourselves in today. And please don’t give so much credit to people who are not aware of what happened TODAY! Get over the Clintons. I’ll be over the Bushes in less than a year!
arthjm, that would be “Revenge Of The Nerds” Part… Eight?
Tons of Americans eat intestine. Never heard of chitlins? Perhaps THE #1 dish among African Americans. American also eat a goodly amount of blod sausage, head cheese, etc., all containing these meats that Americans supposedly don’t eat.
Some of you could stand to lace up your white sneakers and get out in the world.
Maddlew - WTF back at you. I was correcting the Ask a Korean analysis that pinned the FTA/beef troubles on Hillary, and CREDITING her and her husband with understanding trade (and thus passing NAFTA, etc.), while noting that she pandered to the anti-trade crowd of late.
Are you the one advising Sohn Hak-kyu on foreign communications?
Koreans only need to be concerned that the world now knows they prefer to eat parts of cattle that has been accepted as “not fit for human consumption.” If they want to eat like beasts of burden do, then they should not get upset if the globe now sees them as barbaric.
Some classic ex-pat racism in the comments today. It seems like the possibility of reasoned arguments against US beef really enrages a certain class of person.
“Tons of Americans eat intestine. Never heard of chitlins? Perhaps THE #1 dish among African Americans. American also eat a goodly amount of blod sausage, head cheese, etc., all containing these meats that Americans supposedly don’t eat.
Some of you could stand to lace up your white sneakers and get out in the world”
I have plenty of black friends and only one of them eats chitterlings. My aunt in the south eats chitterlings along with other white southerners and black southeners. Its more of a regional thing in the states.
Of course I should add that the south is the butt of America’s jokes though.
I was pretty much on the side of those spewing out anti-Korean vitriol here (although without the anti-Korean vitriol). But I talked to a Korean who put it to me a different way that made sense to me. It’s not about beef, it’s another example of feeling culturally and politically out of control because of US influence and because the Korean politicians who go along with it.
Here’s a post I wrote about it:
http://elephanttalk.wordpress......t-bulgogi/
Eletalk — The problem with that, I’m afraid, is that the solution is rather simple. If our “arrogant code of logic and common sense” is inappropriate, than you fall back on our own sense of victimization — as you well remember from 1980s Japan-bashing, we can play the victim/xenophobia card with the best of them. Frankly, this is what is likely to happen anyway should Sen. Obama take the presidency. Sure, you might argue, the US has benefited immensely from freer trade and, in fact, has been one of the principle architects of free trade, but as you point out, this “arrogant logic and common sense” needn’t apply to, say, US autoworkers, US ranchers, or whole swaths of Americana that feel the US has given away too much of its sovereignty to NAFTA, WTO, UN, etc. If our “arrogant code of logic and common sense” isn’t an appropriate basis for the dealings between nations, the alternative is pretty ugly. Unless, of course, you’re suggesting the US government tell its exporters (and workers) that they should bite the bullet to assuage Koreans feelings of victimization/xenophobic angst.
@ 37
Thank you for that. I have not had a good laugh since I saw footage of the water cannon.
Your so-called “smart” friend is just singing the same old tune of woe is Korea and we have no power and everybody is out to get us wah fucking wah.
@31 I’m gonna say chitlins aren’t the #1 food among African-Americans. I mean, we DO eat them on occasion, but #1 is seriously pushing it. It’s not our kimchi or anything.
# 40,
(satire on) So would it be fried chicken then? (satire off)
“2. Granted the American beef inspection system is not perfect. But why are there no similar minutely critical look at Korean beef inspection and tracking system? The OEI puts Korea as a dangerous country for BSE because of its failure to monitor their beef industry - in other words Korea is given failing grades. United States, on the other hand, is given a passing grade. Now you tell me which country’s beef should be considered to be safer if you were perfectly non biased. Does Koreans even have the right to complain about US beef?”
Reminds me of India where some KFC outlets were shut down for not being up to standard. In India!?! Rat-infested roach heaven!?! Of course, it was all political. Koreans conveniently never mention anything about how their own standards are lower than those of the US.
@41 I can’t believe I’m typing this, but really?
umm… the closest thing is maybe mac and cheese? That stuff is sorta omni-present. Fried chicken is more like samgyeopsal.
Robert - I’m saying that we shouldn’t be surprised by the reaction. Korea’s not the only nation in the world that sees things through its own perspective. The US does the same thing, which is why you hear politicians talking so much about “US interests” and why you see such little interest on the part of Americans toward viewpoints different from those that are distinctly American.
If it were the other way around, and Korea had its military perched on the Mexican border and the US president was taking actions that seemed more beneficial to Korea than to the US, I think you’d see a firestorm of protest from Americans. You can call that “victimization” if you want, but I call it good old protest and taking a stand. It doesn’t matter if you’re talking about beef or cars or shoes… the principle is what’s got some people hot under the collar. That’s an angle I can empathize with.
LMB seemed to get real cozy with Bush before this whole beef thing escalated and I think people are looking at this and wondering what his intentions are and where his loyalties lie.
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