Has the caving begun? From Yonhap:
South Korea will delay posting the new U.S. beef import rules on the government gazette in the face of mounting public opposition, the agriculture ministry said Monday.
It said the move effectively delays implementation of the revised sanitary and phytosanitary (SPS) standards signed by Seoul and Washington on April 18, and could signal the start of negotiations to reflect concerns about beef safety that have caused demonstrators to take to the streets since early last month. Recent demonstrations have turned violent as some protestors called for ousting President Lee Myung-bak, and police have started to crack down on marches.
[...]
It added that the decision follows an official request from the ruling Grand National Party (GNP) earlier in the day. The GNP leadership strongly urged the government to take steps to restore public confidence that can include renegotiation of the beef import agreement.
Negotiations to reflect concerns about beef safety, eh? Boy, I’d love to be in the room for those talks:
Korean negotiator: The Korean public is deeply worried about the safety of US beef.
American negotiator: The Korean public’s concerns are bullshit.
Korean negotiator: Yes, but public perception is no less important than rational judgment.
Sen. Baucus is going to have a field day with this. Goodbye, FTA. Hello, Super 301.
83 Comments
The fucking retards (rioters) are living in a dream world. They think they’re living in the 1980’s. Only this time, they’re bringing children to these anti government riots. The MBC, SBS, KBS are all utterly biased. They keep showing riot cops beating up ‘innocent’ rioters. Not once have they shown the other side of this issue. The only media keeping the level of truth going are the conservative papers like Chosun or Joongang.
i guess we can also say good-bye to these things too:
the Korean economy
the age of Korean prosperity
anyone else wana throw their two cents at the long term picture?
I’d like to hear how long-time residents, connoisseurs of Hysteria on the Han, rank this episode against the other outbreaks: Apollo Ohno, the 2002 middle school girls, the subway butt-touching incident….
As stated on this blog, the protesting idiots fully believe not in law, but rule by mob. The continuing protests are the equivalent of a spoiled child laying down and screaming in the aisle of the supermarket because they don’t their way.
Now, we all know the worst thing you can do is to validate that behavior by giving in and placating them.
It looks like this is exactly what the government is going to do.
Damn 2MB. I was overjoyed when he was elected, but I’m starting to regret that now.
The whole f*cking philosophy seems to be that popular stupidity is valid and should be respected simply because it is popular.
They will never learn how stupid they are behaving if their behaviors and beliefs are treated as valid!
#1 I was also thinking that this is some kind of nostalgia trip for the 386er’s who spent practically no time in the classroom while they were out in the streets protesting the government.
They are even selling it to the herd(people) as the idea of “let’s get out there and protest the injustice by the government”.
Time to put the nostalgic outbursts away.
They won’t, though. They are scoring way too many points against 2MB to stop now.
Koreans have a fundalmental misunderstanding of how the US society and the system works. For sure, the US beef inspection system is not perfect and is not free from problems. But their system is far better and trusted than the Korean system which is full of holes.
But Koreans don’t know how the US works if they think the US would eat good beef while exporting garbage. That’s just not what Americans do. If American beef is bad, then it’s all bad. There is no American “export” type beef. Korean Americans have had no problems eating all kinds of beef products like “gopchang”, “Kalbi”, “gomtang”, and other bone/organ byproducts. Where does this lie that Americans eat Australian beef only, or that Americans eat only 24 month or young beef come from? Why do so many Koreans believe this? If Koreans are worried so much about mad cow, why aren’t hey calling for strict inspections and testing of Korean cows?
Here is Korea, facing economic meltdown due to high oil prices, decreasing national competitiveness, shrinking exports, shrinking foreign investments - all real dangers to Korea. Yet here they are, focusing everything on anti US feelings.
For those who say this isn’t anti US, look around and see who are the usual familiar suspects who are at the forefront. Does anyone still think they’re not Anti-US protesters?
#3 This is different.
The other incidents were focused solely on non-Koreans who they believe wronged Korea/Koreans.
This, though starting out as an attack from the belief that the US government and beef industry is actively trying to kill Korean people, has morphed into an anti-Lee MB struggle. This week, they seem to be focused squarely on Lee- a Korean.
It’s pretty freakin’ crazy right now. Who knows if it will get much worse.
Lee’s government was endanger of being overthrown. He was being attacked from all sides, the public, the opposition, ‘civic groups’, even from his political allies. I really can’t blame him for caving in - he had zero support.
Future of Korea is very bleak. You have a lame duck president who will now have to follow people’s feelings - like Roh Muh Hyun when making up domestic and foreign policies - a rule of mobs.
Bring back the fire hoses and pepper spray!
But not in Seoul. Oh no! We can’t expect the SOUTH Korean government to oppose what are obviously tactics of the NORTH Korean government. It might offend some lefty professors. Who ought to be shot as traitors for helping Kin Jong Il distract the so-called “reporters” from the continuous Nork intransigence at the six-party talks.
No. I want to protest the importation to America of dangerous (i.e., “mad” as in mentally-ill and dangerous) foreigners. Here lately, at VA Tech and elsewhere, psychopathic Koreans with guns have killed more Americans than “Mad Cow Disease” caused by American beef…
By far! Since no one has EVER died from “Mad Cow Disease” as a result of eating American beef.
So let’s give Koreans (with or without Visas), Kia products, Hyundai products, Samsung products, LG products, et cetera, ad nauseum, the same treatment as they give American beef. Let’s just stop ‘em at the border and send ‘em back…
And let’s start “busting their chops” (as the folks at “www.Blackfive.net” might put it) today…
What measures are being taken to ensure food safety in the U.S. from BSE?
Similarly, FDA has prohibited the use of the cattle materials that carry the highest risk of BSE in human food, including dietary supplements, and in cosmetics. FDA’s rule (and September 2005 amendments) prohibit use of the following cattle material in human food and cosmetics:
• cattle material from non-ambulatory, disabled cattle,
• cattle material from organs from cattle 30 months of age or older in which infectious prions are most likely to occur, and the tonsils and the distal ileum of the small intestine of cattle of all ages,
• cattle material from mechanically separated (MS) (beef), and
• cattle material from cattle that are not inspected and passed for human consumption
Guess I’ll just have to keep getting me crazy beef (T-bones, especially) from the base.
Went down to the protest on Saturday night. Seemed more like an MT.
Good times!
Americans mostly eat beef cows that are OVER TWO YEARS old.
USDA figures on the beef herd population.
Search for “Table A2″. The numbers at the bottom of the table aren’t sums, so cut & paste into Excel and have statistics fun. The 0 to 18 years-old BEEF cows for 2005 add up to 44,904,216, of which 29,452,726 (two-thirds!!!) are 3-years-old or order.
Guess what netizens, Americans eat OLD cows. And they’re bloody delicious. And safe.
“What measures are being taken to ensure food safety in the U.S. from BSE?”
What measures are being taken to ensure food safety in Korea from food poisoning, let alone from BSE, WJK?
Koreans are projecting their own distrust of the fucked up Korean system, onto the US.
Th esilver lining to all this will probably be a downturn in the US cattle industry , leading to more young men from idaho joining the US military to supplement the now meagre income from their family farm because of the Korean refusal to eat cannibal beef. THose extra soldiers can be used to invade another country whcih could now be told what to do. Lee myong bak’s government is already making No mu hyun look great. ha ha. American soft power is soft.
cfsan.fda.gov/~comm/bsefaq.html
these are the facts.
I protest against banning my “links”.
It is very discriminatory.
The only mystery is “why they believe” they are eating beef that violates FDA standards.
It is a case of PD soochup being more believable to the public than Lee Myung Bak.
Korea must be the only country crazy enough to ready overthrow a government and risk economic damage by severing its strained relationship with the best friend that it has ever had - over a stupid fucking beef.
Now call me crazy or something, but this is just embarrassing to see a ‘major’ country in the world acting like a banana republic.
Food safety is a concern in all countries. E-coli has zapped a few folk in the U.S. Spinach anyone? Apple juice from Michigan? Jack In The Box in the early ’90’s?
Recently, Joongang Ilbo had an article about Korea negotiating with the U.S. about exporting Ssamgyetang and Korean beef. What a laugh. Who’d buy it?
http://joongangdaily.joins.com.....id=2890256
This is just blatant anti-Americanism.
Just out of curiosity, when Korean Airlines and Asiana Airlines get the catered food for their outbound flights to Korea, are they not supplied with US beef. Thus, all the Korean bound passengers that choose “beef” are eating US beef. I believe that the Korean Airlines are serving US beef. Time to protest the Airlines.
This is awesome!
#14 SWLEE
Good thing you mates is pulling out of Iraq. Perhaps the lads can find work on the Idaho farms that,you suggest,will have to fill the ranks because of the downfall of this beef deal. Who cares? I’ll keep eating Aussie beef, even though it’s twice the price of a mad cow.
Look again, Korea is just not that important to the USA. The beef issue is a small issue. The USA will likely do all it can to help LMB. I am sure in the scope of the relationship, they would rather deal with him than some nut case.
This event will pass like the Ohno event or taking the Amcham offices, or other events. Its just Korea. They want other countries to respect them and marvel at their achievements.
I do not think Americans look down on Koreans. I think they tend to look down on stupid people and these days its seems that many people in Korea fall under this category.
#14 SWLEE
Dude, spell check.
# 22 American Seoul
Well said, indeed.
Great, so now that 30+ month myth is debunked (officially, with empirical evidence), can someone email it to the MSM over there? … Not that it’ll do any good, but just in case… Ugh, see what happens when the fourth branch of the government is the most f*cked up part of the society?
I think that idea is what irked the protesters more than the MCD angle… like some commenter put it in the other thread, they don’t want to ‘eat the garbage of the U.S.’. It certainly plays out to the modes of thought that U.S. uses South Korea.
I agree with the analysis that this has to do more with populism vs. elitism than “Fuck America”. While the latter may have been the match that ignited this situation, it certainly isn’t the source of the fuel… the quote “Public perception is no less important than rational judgement.” would not have been made if this was just about hating the U.S.
An active BSE surveillance program has existed in the United States since May 1990, in order to safeguard the American cattle population…
BSE-infected cattle have never been detected under the age of 20 months and 88% of the
U.S. slaughter population is under this age…
fsrio.nal.usda.gov/document_fsheet.php?product_id=169
just let me point out that re-negociate really a moot point since the congress killed the fta long before e coli beef.
that’s something left out of the equation here.
oh, and here’s an idea: how about the american beef industry catering to it’s clients? how about, instead of trying to force tainted beef down the throats of koreans, us beef producers produce beef the way koreans want their beef?
can you imagine how ape shit most of you would go if korea actually tried to dictate safety standards in the us? tell me why the us has this right and korea does not?
lastly, you foreigners coming to america would be well advised to stay away from burger joints as hamburger is just the dirtiest meat in america.
# 27 Pawikirogi
I can imagine your meat is pretty dirty considering the picture you post, pedaphile.
If your on the west coast, try the In n Out Burger joint. They buy their beef from local producers, it’s fresh (not frozen) and they make it right there for you, in front of your eyes.
If that is not to your liking, well, then, you can go baste yourself and get F#$%d.
pawi, its seems when Korea partially lifted the ban on US beef last year, the stores that sold it were sold out in a few hours. This hardly Korean consumers having tainted beef shoved down their throats. Koreans have eaten US beef for a long time. As previously mentioned, they have been eating it since the Korean War.
In fact many are still eating it today, but they just do not know it. All the black market beef that is sold and consumed by willing Korean buyers. The end result of this will likely be more expensive beef and pork for Korean consumers and perhaps cheaper beef prices for Americans because of greater supply. And Pawi, perhaps you should spend a little more time in Korea before you point the fingers at sanitary conditions in the USA.
Korean inspectors are allowed into the U.S. To inspect slaughtering methods, sanitation, etc.
Are any of these Koreans raising the alarm, pawi? Or is at usual, the terminally uninformed who are doing all the braying?
Sorry, Pawi!
If I’m going to call you a name I should spell it right.
You pedophile, you.:)
Your gravatar truly is a window to your soul, pawi!
Well it’s not like you expected LMB to hold out. It was a matter of time before someone in the inner circle advised LMB to tone it down before things for him and his party got worse.
#19,
Well, not just Korean Airlines, I would guess.
Could you please tell all your friends that? I’m going on a flight soon and I fucking hate fish.
‘In fact many are still eating it today, but they just do not know it. All the black market beef that is sold and consumed by willing Korean buyers. The end result of this will likely be more expensive beef and pork for Korean consumers and perhaps cheaper beef prices for Americans because of greater…’
well then, what’s the problem? since black market so big, us beef people should so happy. and please, don’t tell me your average expat is comcerned about benefits for koreans. this is just jingoistic fodder for their revenge fantasies. nothing more.
‘And Pawi, perhaps you should spend a little more time in Korea before you point the fingers at sanitary conditions in the USA.’
this is a tu quoque. i thought only koreans did stuff like that.
‘he smiles as his dagger cometh forth.’ shapawi
nothing like mob rule. what next the masses will decide they dont want the usfk here and 2mb will kick them out?
give me a break
#27 pawikirogi.
Maybe, just maybe, Americans (at least some of them) might think that they have a right to force korea to do whatever they’d like to, no matter how it is unfair and unequal trade agreement, since the US is great and “always right”.
If that is really the case, a sign of blind patriotism, or at worst even fascism.
@27 remind us why you live in the US and not Korea? You obviously hate the States, why are you still there?
What a turn off this whole issue, and the resulting behavior, is for anyone thinking of returning to Korea.
i’ll ask once again:
why doesn’t the american beef industry try to cater to it’s korean clients? can you imagine koreans demanding americans buy cars the way koreans want their cars? america is trying to get back into the third largest market for it’s beef. rather than dictate to it’s customers, how about trying to placate them?
the koreans don’t want bone, so take it out. they don’t want cows fed spinal cords, so take it out. they want to be treated like the first people that they are so start treating them as such. it ain’t hard if you let go of your jingo jango.
you know, korean companies became successful here when they finally started catering to the customer. the american beef industry would be wise to do the same.
東方永光 我知道你來
동방영광 아지도내래
Korean protests are about meeting sex partners, always have been.
@40: And I’ll tell you again, the Koreans are in the U.S., inspecting the production and export facilities. There’s the safety angle.
As far as “the beef Koreans want”, this isn’t like cars. It’s not like the U.S. producers insist on exporting sirloin steaks, while Koreans only want to buy meat in deungshim cuts. Silly argument and ill-thought-out analogy.
Another point that seems to be overlooked is that the US gov is not selling the meat to the Korean gov. It would be an American or Korean American beef interest selling most likely to a Korean buyer. The buyer obviously will have a choice of what they choose to purchase. If Korean buyers only wanted to buy certain cuts of beef or certain ages, it seems like they could buy just those products. Just because American can legally export the items, does not mean the buyers or the Korean public has to buy them.
When this argument is brought up, its we can not trust the Korean buyers to provide us with safe meat. That seems more like a regulatory issue within Korea rather than a US beef issue. If Korean buyers and places of business supply accurate information about what is being sold, 1 month 20 month 40 month, then the people can decide. Thus, the problem with American exports according to Koreans, is dishonest Korean business people. This is the rational I am hearing why Koreans can not allow US beef into the country at all. It would not be in the sellers interest to provide a dangerous product. If the market is big and their is potential, it would be in the buyers interest to provide the highest quality product to ensure market share and profitability over the long term. Do not tell me, Emart could not put up a sign saying we sell only 20 month old beef or whatever that weeks concern is over the beef. I have to hand it to Pawi, living in the USA, defending the indefensible yet having abandoned his life in Korea. I guess Pawi voted with his feet. Too bad the Korean cosumer is not allowed the choices that Pawi has been allowed.
‘@27 remind us why you live in the US and not Korea? You obviously hate the States, why are you still there?’
oh, the moronic irony.
한국의 사람들은, 미국 시험이 당신에게 그녀의 암컷을 하게 하지 않으라! 강하 광우병 및 e 콜라이에 의하여 감염된 고기를 거부하라. 미국 쇠고기에 미치게 가고 그(것)들이 처럼 에 의하여 팝콘 터진다! 이것은 당신의 임금 바위 기러기의 어명이다. 앞으로 가고 나의 낱말을 진실한 시켜라!
韓國的人民，在您的美國測試不做做她的女性! 那里廢物肉與一致是被傳染的秋天疯牛病和e colp的地方.做在美國牛肉的伸手可及的距離，并且與像玉米花打破的(事)容量一致! 這是從您的國王岩石鵝的皇家命令。服从我的命令并且因而正義!
Due to all of this childishness on a grand scale, I must admit that
I am extremely ashamed to be associated with this ass-backwards N.E. Asian country and its people. What a joke–but it isn’t a joke. Several tens of thousands of people really are “that stupid.” It is so absurd that it is really difficult to take in. What an f’ing joke.
Fair question. Perhaps pawi is a vegan and avoids this dangerous U.S. beef altogether.
What a joke…
one last thing since so many of you make comment on the picture i use. i told you i changed it but it hasn’t changed yet. let me also say:
나는 그가 아주 잘생기기 때문에 녀석의 그림을 이용했다. 나는 왜 너희들이 모든 나의 여자를 가지고 가는지 볼 수 있다. 당신은 상보로 그것을 생각해야 한다. 이들은 그가 보는 모두의 황제 폐하 황제 바위 거위 소유자에게서 왕 낱말이다.
It’s surreal watching all this happen. It’s good entertainment, and it’s all free. I’ve pulled up a chair. But how moral is it to watch Koreans hurting themselves?
These idiots are so blinded by the bullsh!t that they have been fed by the anti-US/anti-2MB groups that no amount of facts and reality will change their minds.
Now, you’ve actually got the “PD” show apologizing for their misleading story on mad cow and Sohn Hak-Gyu saying that “public perception is just as important as facts”(what the public feels should dictate policy, not facts and logic- a roundabout way of saying that facts are not supporting the idea that US beef is dangerous).
The lies about mad cow and US beef are being revealed. Too late!
The mindless public has decided that US beef is deadly and they are not going to change their minds.
The truth is that they probably would have to be force fed US beef to change their minds.
Infinitely stubborn and monumentally ignorant!
What a combination!
PS- the notion that the US food industry in unsanitary and uses dangerous practices while the Korean food industry is totally safe and looks out for the well being of the citizenry is totally asinine.
I like living in Korea, but this place has a long history of cutting corners and ignoring dangers to public health & safety.
Anyone who would think that the Korean food industry is safer than the American one is definitely suffering from some sort of “madness”!
“america is trying to get back into the third largest market for it’s beef. rather than dictate to it’s customers, how about trying to placate them?”
What do you actually suggest they do? The essence of the argument from the anti US side is that they can’t trust anything the US meat inspection system produces. So, how can the US side “prove” that their meat is safe if whatever they do or say is not good enough? Isn’t this same thing as saying, we’re not going to buy from you period?
For those who are calling for ‘renogtiating’ the deal have no clue how the rest of the world outside Korea works. Only in Korea is there ‘renogiating’ (more like reneging to me) after everything was signed and hands shaken. Can you imagine what this looks like to non Koreans in Korea who have the firm ideal that Koreans routinely break promises and contracts?
When they say “renegotiating”, they really mean “tell the US we’re not importing your products”.
@#47,
I stopped reading at “나는 그가 아주 잘생기기 때문에”
You sir, are a douche.
The mission accomplished for opposite sides, civic groups, and lefties over the Pro-American LMB Admin. as planned! They used the beef issue to turn the clock backward to their era. More and more slogans changed from “NO to American Mad Cow” to “NO riot police”, “LMB out” over the weekend as the organizers planned. ChungWaDea has no choice but to accept, at least responded what these opposite sides are demanding for, as LMB definitely doesn’t want to step down from the chair.
#2 & #3,
The Korean economy will be fine. This stuff is normal in Korea. The US should thump Korea on the head, as Marmot and others have suggested, in an attempt to break Korea’s habit of failing to implement deals it makes - just as China did in the Great Garlic War - but all we are seeing has been done regularly in the past - and South Korea’s economy has hummed along.
In short, there will be no trade war between the US and SK. Even if the US thumps Korea on the head, the most likely result will be much like what happened when China did it: Korea will admit it benefits hugely from trade with the US and will implement the beef deal and be somewhat less inclined to give into nationalistic temptations as a way to hamper already cut deals.
As to ranking this issue with others in the past:
I have not been living in Korea since 2002, and I don’t have the kind of contact with a large pool of Korean adults as I used to - but with that said:
This is similar to the IaMF Bailout Saga. The protests are bigger and have gone on longer, but the net result will be the same: it will be long remembered as how the US pushes Korea around economically. It will have a significant long lasting influence.
This spike is less than the Ohno one by means of longevity. Ohno was white hot fast, but it was shorter lived and quickly wrapped up into bigger issues - namely the 2002 armored vehicle accident.
That spike in activity was the worst by far since the 1988 riots against the South Korean government + the US in Korea.
I can’t really say about the early 1990s subway incident. That was before my time and the news archives don’t allow much research into it.
I’d have to say this issue is a little smaller, because people were still talking about that event a year later when I arrived and started teaching adults. It was something all my students wanted to talk about - and I didn’t learn until much later how wrong most of their facts were.
I’d also say the beef spike is somewhat bigger than the Maehyang-ri Saga, but that one was also wrapped up in the 2002 period.
I would say the beef spike is still less than the 2000 Water Dumping Saga, but if the beef issue keeps rolling for a couple of more weeks and the violence continues, it might rank up there with the 2000 period.
Is pawi always such an insipid attention-seeking loser?
Or have I just noticed him because of his ill-chosen use of Korean and Chinese characters to spew lies and nonsense?
Don’t they call that “acting like he has no family”?
What I would like to see is an effort by the pro-US associations that seemed to be forming from the middle of the Roh presidency. It seems those groups have no reach in the society.
It was interesting to see that the leftist university groups were having problems with interest on campus while at the same time conservative groups were finally organizing. There were also notes about other civic groups rising to counter the leftist groups.
But, in this beef issue, I have failed to hear a peep out of them. Maybe they just can’t get their view point heard — but that doesn’t really work, because if they staged a protest in Seoul and could get more than a few hundred people involved, it would get noticed.
What we have seen is conservatives in the GNP quickly cave into pressure and join the chorus.
So, I’d have to say, at least given what I’ve seen so far, those hopeful signs in the Roh period have not panned out. There is no reason for us to believe Korean society is going to have a healthy social debate system any time soon.
they want US meat.
just under different conditions. Why else would they call for jaehyupsang, instead of abandoning the whole thing?
vast majority (50%++) don’t like the likes of Chung Dong Young. This was proven 2wice in the elections.
they want the meat under 20 month old age, skipping the high risk parts.
it is Lee Myung Bak and his administrative branch’s fault for having failed to deem this an issue that they should address.
thus, rightfully, Lee Myung Bak will fire janggwans, as he announced.
in short, nothing started off right.
all-star, doing-best team, were gangbooja, gosoyoung. Many of them with wives and children who were US citizens, did not go to goondae artfully and creatively, yet still used ROK healthcare to their advantages when visiting, etc.
then, namdaemoon burned down. He opened it. When he was mayor.
then, diesel fuel went up. This is none of his fault. Diesel’s been rising like a volcano even in the US. But, the perception of the public is that, it’s his fault. Couldn’t disagree more. No Moo Hyun promised to artificially keep diesel cheaper. Well, that’s that.
food prices went up. NOT his fault. But, if you recall, that YOU blamed George Bush I for everything and anything in 1991, you’ll understand.
actually, with the diesel rise, I now understand the genius behind his woonha project, unlike the Obama highway project, which serves zero utility.
perception wise, people didn’t like his face. Gwansang. I guess no one in the world really appreciates eyes you can’t see. Looks like they’re hiding something. They were upset when he was too friendly to the Japanese emperor, George Bush II.
I support both George W. Bush and Lee Myung Bak. They both had some distrust issues with the public.
they believe they’re not eating the same meat, and like the FDA shows, it’s not just the meat. Edible oils go into, say Ramen (#1 fastfood in Korea), and costmetics.
why they believe the US would sell them “harmful meat”, that I don’t know, and I suspect NONE of you actually read the terms of the trade, but it seems the Koreans did, so
I can conclude,
THE KOREANS ARE NOT KRAZY.
Some Interesting comments:
Read Read Read
Oh there’s something from Pawi, skip skip skip.
Read Read Read
Pawi again, skip skip skip
Read Read Read
Read Read Read
Pawi AGAIN! Skip skip skip.
Just finished comment #57, and I’ve got no idea what Pawi said.
Have I missed any pearls of wisdom, have I missed any great intellectual insights?
Nope!
How do you know “the Koreans” read the terms of the FTA? I suspect your average Korean protestor is as familiar with the terms of the FTA as he is with the SOFA, which is to say, not very.
As far as Lee’s eyeshape, that is far from unusual among Koreans. However, he could certainly follow Roh’s precedent and get double-eyelid surgery.
Pawi is in a sense correct — and his contributions here are consistent with the view — that facts, logic and science have no place in this Korean beef debate.
well, I’m more of trying to understanding the native’s viewpoints,
because unlike some gyopos here,
I remember during 89,90,91 when US food was entering the ROK market, such as
US grapefruit,
processed ham,
the 9pm news was stating that they found carcinogens, illegal preservatives, dated ham, etc in the shipment. As well as denial of any wrong doing from the American companies. This, with fuzzy, satelite like images from the US (still done I think to give the viewer an artificial distance from the “other” country).
this gave the impression that the Americans were selling “left over” stuff to Korea.
and this is the impression today as well.
and this was technically, during pro-American, MILITARY capitalists ruling. General Roh Tae Woo.
I’m actually surprised that Lee Myung Bak was unable to firmly control the 9pm news outlet. Usually, it’s the Blue House’s barking dog, with a short leash, and obedience rivaling a real dog.
that said, you who say Korea is anti-US, give it a rest. It’s anti-Lee Myoung Bak. Just like the hips at the states, being anti-Bush.
you who say all the media is one sided, sit down, please.
obviously, Jo-Joong-Dong is pro Lee Myung Bak, but the tv news and the other newspapers are undermining the President.
you who say, that it’s all the left, sit down.
may I ask, what the hell is Lee Hwae Chang doing, then, allying with all the opposition party members in the beef issue?
Since WHEN was he a left liberal?
Question to RJKoehler. Is Chosun Ilbo a good paper, an honest paper? Or not?
dogbertt, I agree that plastic surgery may help Lee Myung Bak’s image.
Actually, the silver lining to all this will probably be a downtown in the numbers of Mexicans and Central Americans crossing the border to toil in midwestern meat packing plants.
ps the korean and chinese are from babel fish! lol!
@54 You’re probably right and that is how it will play out.
Rule by mob, rule by idiocy or incompetence, whatever. If they don’t want the beef or FTA or Apaches, that’s fine. If their reasons are rational or not, I don’t care. Why should we care? The US will sell its products elsewhere. The price of beef will continue to stay high and they can pay their exorbitant prices. In the words of the great Al Pacino, “Freedom, baby, means never having to say you’re sorry.” *wink*
As an alternative to simply stopping imports from Korea, how about we stop exports to Korea, you know, starve them a little and create extra demand, thus forcing prices higher, and then rationing back the exports, you know, like cattle feed, Qualcom chips, or iron exports for a week? Then, just to drive the point home, we can turn a ship or two back.
wjk is right, Koreans aren’t anti-US they’re anti-foreigner.
Remember, a large percentage of Korean school kids and first year uni students and military conscripts view the US as the main enemy. This is ant-Americanism.
They don’t learn this in school from their teachers ohhh noooo, they aren’t anti-US. Just ask wjk and other like him. They know because they live here and have practical experience.
Love the Korean-Chameleon, draft dodgers opinions when they aren’t even here to live through and/or experience it all.
Some people seem to be losing sight of the ultimate goal here, at least from the US beef producers side, which is to sell the product, not just put it on the shelf. I think we all can agree that in sales and in marketing perception really is more important than reality, and you want the customer to trust the integrity of your product, that it’s top of the line, and that you listen to them. The US can use heavy handed tactics to get the older beef on the shelf, but if the value of the brand is destroyed in the process, what’s the point? American beef is produced in a place with a comparative advantage in beef production - lots of grassland and capital abundance, leading to a better quality product at lower price - it should easily dominate the market here, whether it’s young beef or old beef. The US side needs to keep their eye on the ball - which is long term beef sales in Korea, not ‘winning’ the negotiations by including the older beef, and letting the issue become a political football, used by protestors as a symbol of imbalanced US-Korean relations. Introduce a superior product to the market and in the long run you will win.
I do believe that this will prove a seminal moment in shaping my attitude and perception of Korean society in general.
Very disappointing.
Cultural attitudes towards food and health could be another reason why Koreans have been especially sensitive to the beef issue. Food safety can be a delicate issue in the US, too, as with the debate over genetically modified food, which is probably just fine, but Koreans hold plenty of unscientific, and borderline superstitious beliefs about food and health, aside from fan death, and I can see why they could worked up over this. There plenty of similar ideas like 신토불이 (only eat food grown where you live), immeasurable and untestable concepts in Chinese/Korean traditional medicine like the circulation of Qi energy, beliefs that eating dog or tiger sexual organs will give you stamina, and that women who give birth should never drink coca cola and should stay inside a hot room in a 산후조리원 for a month to block the cosmic wind from penetrating and weakening their bones. Its easy to see how the issue could be politicized with popular beliefs about food like these.
A question for the beef experts out there - where’s the Argentinean beef in Korea? Doesn’t McDonalds in the US use beef from Argentina? How is it that only Australia was able to sell here?
LA Riots, Dog eating, Hyundai cars of 1992 and Cho Seung Hui. None of these Korean embarrassments ever made me ashamed of being of Korean heritage.
However, Korea’s insane reaction to the whole U.S. beef issue has shaken me to the core. It must be unprecedented in the history of a democratic country with freedom of speech, elected officials, a highly educated population to be helplessly fallen captive to terrible pseudo-science, a manipulative press and unscrupulous politicians. This is horribly embarrassing. At least the Borg of China had an understandable pretense for their Olympic Torch demonstrations, it was the degree that was questioned. They are falling hook, line and sinker for a logically inconsistent cocktail of Pseudo science and yellow journalism. This is making Korea look extremely stupid to the rest of the world. It’s embarrassing because one cannot excuse the behavior, let alone explain it.
The Korean people demonstrating in the streets over this issue are being manipulated. I feel sorry for them because they have surrendered their critical thinking skills at the door and are just going with the herd (no pun intended). Korean democracy appears to be self-immolating itself over a disease that’s harder to get then being hit by lightening on a clear day, politicians who hate LMB and beef farmers who have no business raising cattle in a mountainous country.
Korea as a country appear to have a gnat on its nose it’s trying to kill by slamming their face on a brick wall. The beef issue is a very tiny one. A class of people so small who cares if they give up raising cows and get other jobs? A disease that no scientist worth their salt will say you have a chance of getting with a straight face. However, the consequences for their actions is extremely great. LMB was elected only months ago and already people are asking him to step down. How are Koreans (or anyone else for that matter) suppose to have any confidence in their young democracy if they call of the ouster of their President just months after they themselves elected him?
Then there are the economics considerations. The FTA will mean 10-15% cheaper LG, Samsung, Hyundai and KIA products in the U.S. With the Korean companies competing so aggressively with the Chinese, Japanese and Europeans (Nokia is Finnish after all) manufacturers in this dog-eat-dog global economy, this comparative advantage will mean more jobs for Koreans. I estimate 10’s of thousands more net jobs for Korea. How many beef farmers are there in Korea? Does it mean we should limit the sale of Hyundai cars and Samsung refrigerators by keeping a beef farmer’s way of life intact? Their way of life isn’t more important then your right to cheaper food and stronger multinational companies. Please THINK about it… and WAKE UP!
#72 -
WangKon, would you mind posting that same comment in Korean? I think it would be really useful.
BOHICA! Just posted on Yonhap:
“S. Korea asks U.S. to hold off export of beef from older animals”
This amounts to abrogating the agreement, I’d say. Too bad Uncle Sugar probably won’t do diddly squat about the request other than to express understanding of the situation and go into BOHICA mode.
#73 - I agree, Ut videam, and was about to say the same thing myself before I saw your comment.
#72 - Well written, WangKon936, though you’re preaching to the converted here - for the most part - and could hopefully really influence some minds if you were to write this on a Korean forum in Korean.
I like this one, El Cangaroo.
HREF=”http://www.cafepress.com/gammamale.161998007″>MADE IN USA
This can be a mascot for eating Korean dog from the USA
BTW, I’ve been to Australia a number of times but I’ve never heard of koori? Is it Korean word?
O0ops…
MADE IN USA
As a Korean I’m a bit embarrased about this whole fiasco myself. Korean Americans, especially restaurant owners, realize that US beef is completely safe. Frankly, I’m more likely to be shot down in the steets here in LA then consume infected beef.
I don’t think I’ll ever forget a Korean netizen who posted on Youtube that “.000000001% of infection means you can still get infected”. He also insisted that CJD is contagious among humans and looked down upon Americans ignorant of “global opinion” that support such a claim. I struggled to fall asleep that night. I know Korean Netizens are perfectly capable of illogic, but can they sink this low?
A korean friend of mine wondered if you can really get MDC from dairy products or cosmetics. The short answer is ‘no’ and a 5 min googling is all you need to find out. An online interview with a UCSB professor studying prions was especially useful. But I found at least one photo of a protester in Korea with a sign that read something to the effect of “I won’t wear MDC makeup.” Korea is known for its advanced internet capability (or so they say) but what good is that if you can’t take advantage of the resources available online? Especially for this issue?
This may be a little late, but I’m surprised that no-one’s mentioned it. In #44 and #48 ‘pawkirogi’ shows that he should be arrested for abuse of the Korean language. He clearly demonstrates that he’s not Korean, at least linguistically. What he wrote above is unadulterated gibberish, perhaps generated by an automatic translation program or web-site.
國語를 驅迫하지 맙시다!
Well… Pawi’s English isn’t that good either. Could he be one of those gyopos who came to the states in their late teens? Those fellows… neither their English or Korean end up all that well.
#78,
So well-put.
MADE IN USAMGK
Ooops, typo
@FD #79:
One reason why no one’s mentioned Pawi’s Korean skills is that some commenters tend to scroll past them much the way someone sidesteps doggie doo on the sidewalk. He claimed that his Korean and Chinese came from Babelfish, but Babelfish lives up to its name when translating between English and Asian languages, rendering text far more imcomprehensible than that low-class banmal befitting a high school dropout or snotty teenager. The Chinese probably is from Babelfish as a quick glance shows errors in syntax and word choice.
4 Trackbacks
[...] It said the move effectively delays implementation of the revised sanitary and phytosanitary (SPS) standards signed by Seoul and Washington on April 18, and could signal the start of negotiations to reflect concerns about beef safety that have caused demonstrators to take to the streets since early last month. Recent demonstrations have turned violent as some protestors called for ousting President Lee Myung-bak, and police have started to crack down on marches. [Yonhap via TMH] [...]
Bovine-Related Madness in Media…
Bomb English gets down to the holes in the mad cow tempest engulfing ROK (well, just Gotham Seoul). Michael and Jennifer cover a lot of material, a true resource for ESL teachers and Americans who might be feeling retaliatory about Seoulites’ obsessio…
[...] so he didn’t use the term “bullshit,” but close [...]
[...] on the matter is firmly in the camp that the standard Korean viewpoint is irrational at best and economically damaging at [...]