From Defense News;
South Korea is considering a U.S. offer to sell secondhand attack helicopters as part of its drive to upgrade military equipment, officials said May 27.
Defense officials said U.S. troops here had offered to sell 36 AH-64 Apache helicopters. Two U.S. Apache battalions are deployed in South Korea.
“It was only reviewed at the working level, but it is being reviewed very positively,” Defence Ministry spokesman Won Tae-Jae told Yonhap news agency.
The ministry previously proposed a multibillion-dollar project to develop its own attack helicopters. But it has hit a snag for financial reasons.
“Nothing has been decided, but I do want to make it clear that this will not mean the scrapping of the attack helicopter development project,” Won said.
I guess this is to make up for the proposed transfer of an Apache battalion from Korea to Afghanistan. Korea is also getting a good deal considering that the Apaches will be sold at half price if the sale goes through. But it remains to be seen whether the Government will opt for the buy or go the way of “let’s produce it domestically.” However, considering that the ROK’s Cobra fleet is ageing plus the current Government’s policies, the possibility of the sale going through is high.
31 Comments
How about a “Buy two Apache helicopters half price, and you get a US prime cow for free!” deal (which of course can be flown in on the helicopter past the union’s blockade in Busan)?
Cheap second hand, outdated helicopters are just one of the many benefits of being a neo-colony
why doesn’t the us offer to sell korean new apaches instead of used ones?
Since when is a Longbow-equipped Apache with a zero-timed airframe an “outdated” helicopter?
#4 They are not. They are the finest attack helicopter on the planet!
And pawi, when are you going to change your gravatar, you are creeping everyone-out, ya sick bastard.
As you know, Pawi, Marmot’s hole is frequented by four-star generals just waiting for someone to ask exactly such a question, in order to let some military info out of the bag.
Wedge is correct. As anyone well versed in Military Tech or at least has a subscription to Janes Defence Weekly will attest, the Apache Longbow is still the premier attack helicoptor in the skies to date. Why else would the Comanche Helicoptor project be cancelled by the Pentagon without much of a fuss (Instead of a hubbub like the Crusader Artillery System)? The Apache Longbow is still more than a match for any Russian Mil choppers, and would be, no offense intended, far superior to anything Korea could dream up, and perhaps put into use. It would be a neo-colony if the equipment was perhaps French thus/or useless, but this is still fine tested weaponry.
Also, it really is a niche market for attack choppers. Augusta-Bell, Aerospatiale, and Sikorsky really dont compete. There is much more money to be made in Support and Rescue helicoptors.
Calling the purchase of American arms, neo-colonialism, is as neatly packaged liberal propaganda, as calling Microsoft a monopoly back in the days of Win95,2000. Back then, they had a superior product with Linux in near infancy, and the Mac OS9 a decided failure. The superiority of tested product and lack of viable alternatives does not neatly define monopoly, as this sale does not neatly define neo-colonialism.
Let us not buy into this idiocy that anyone who buys anything from America is a neo-colony. So what if America make an offer SK cant refuse? Its still a damm fine product.
On a lighter note, if I were to make an alternative suggestion for South Korean Procurement officers, instead of the Apache Longbow, I suggest AIRWOLF!!
Yea baby. Anyone even remember Airwolf? Clearly that thing is battle tested and if I remember, it even took out jets. LOL. Airwolf, A-team, Knight Rider, MacGuyver, the ZENITH of 80’s American Television.
Robo, I would only wish I were a 4 star general.
LOL
Of course that would mean that by giving out analysis I would become of the Pentagon Propaganda Dissemination Campaign. Naturally.
Alas, I’m not even a mere Tom Clancy.
Airwolf is awesome. I wish the US sold MacGuyver to Korea instead of just a bunch of attack helicopters.
Pentagon Propaganda Campaign? I heard they outsourced that to Chinese netizens.
by the way: how come Pawi can change his gravatar to a crazy Canadian, while I can’t even get my gravatar to switch to a crazy cow? The cow shows at the bottom, while I type the comment, but then the fire-bubble lady comes back when I hit “post”. (welcome back, eh?)
Sounds like a good deal. The Apaches are top shelf, and the ROKs would still have Cobras they could also continue using for a while.
By the way, didn’t a certain recently-suspended commenter agree yesterday to stop using the image of pedophile Christopher Paul Neil in his avatar?
Mine wont change, even though I tried. Maybe big P’s having the same problem.
Well, it’s hard to call Apache Ds “second hand.” Why don’t we call it used, or as many luxury car dealers would say… “preowned?”…
you gotta wait about a week for your grav to change. i don’t know why this happens here but i did research it but did not understand the answer but it was something about caches or something. anyway, as i write this, i see the new gravatar but i already know the old grav is what will be posted.
wait about a week or so and then it will change.
Understood. Looking forward to the new grav. Bring back the geisha!
Not exactly the same scenario as the Apaches with Korea, but when the Australians bought slightly older M1A1 tanks from the US, weren’t they still getting the one of the best tanks (2nd best maybe?) in the world?
A rebuild aircraft is just as good as a new aircraft. The avionics systems can be updated to the customers requirements and foreign military sales authorization, but I don’t think they will be D models.
Most of the commercial aircraft fleet is decades old and still doing well (despite the recent 747 incident).
A “certified used” Apache will provide a great capability over the 1960’s era Cobra that is currently fielded.
These helicopters will be rebuilt. The only thing used about them is the actual airframe. They are just as good as a new one…
“why doesn’t the us offer to sell (K)korean new apaches instead of used ones?”
You think they’ll pay?
Not to sound like I know what I’m talking about, but you have to remember that if you buy the toys, you need to buy the spare parts.
According to a high ranking ROK Air Force guy I knew, the Korean military hated buying spare parts. That’s were a lot of the real money is made by the defence contractor. And if you don’t buy them now, there is always a possibility of future shortages. Ask the Iranians who bought the F-14 tomcats where their getting their parts. Of course, that’s an extreme example.
However, if you recall a few years ago, many planes were having problems in Korea (I think the F-16s). According to my source, the air force scrimped on the parts and paid the price.
Again, according to this guy, the price of the toy and the spare parts should be about the same price.
But, if they want to pay, I agree. Why not.
Maintenance plans and spare parts are where all the money is made. Do you know that engine manufacturers such as Pratt & Whitney and GE actually lose money on their engines? They are offered at upwards of 90% off the actual price. Where they make their money is on the long term service contracts with the Airliner business, such contracts typically run 2 to 3 times the price of the engine itself for it’s lifetime.
Just like inkjet printers. Printers are sold at below cost but you get the privilege of paying 40 bucks for ink catridges.
Secondhand attack helicopters, huh? Are they over thirty months old?
Goddammit! Where’s my candle???
“I suggest AIRWOLF!!”
I loved that show when I was 12 years old.
It’s actually still around, serving as an air ambulance in Germany.
There really is no aircraft ever made that was, is, or will be superior to AIRWOLF.
Im not talking about just the weapons systems. I mean Airwolfs minigun pods and missle racks were advanced.
But the real kicker that beat in the heads of the enemies was the divinely awesome theme song that would start slow and quiet, then build as the black chopper blitzed across the screen…. you all know the theme song. yeaa baby…..
Even theme songs arent what they used to be. Remember how iconic the MacGuyver theme song was? There isnt a human alive that wouldnt hear that song and instinctively grab his Swiss Army Knife to cut rope and wood to build an engine that ran on egg yolks.
A second had Apache would cost quite a bit less that a new model. The “D” could cost as much as $40 million a copy versus a rebuilt “A” model at half that.
Timing is also an issue. The factory makes what they are programmed to make from US and FMS purchases. Korea might not be able to get a new model until all the other contracts are fulfilled and that could be five or more years down the road.
I’ve heard that Korea has a license from Sikorsky to assemble and repair the UH-60s they have here in Korea. I’ve also heard that the Apache airframe is produced by a Korean sub-contractor and shipped to the US. So it could be considered a gyopo aircraft.
AIRWOLF, sure brings back memories.
#3
Korea selected the AH-64D as its next attack helo on 2001 as part of the AH-X project. If Korea had followed through, 36 new build Apaches would have been bought and they would be flying today in ROKA markings. But instead it decided to build its own attack and utility choppers under the KMH(Korea Medium Helicopter) programme, which was scrapped as too expensive on 2004. Of course the KMH was replaced with the KHP(Korea Helicopter Project) when Chung Dong-young decided that it was “cheaper” for Korea to develop its own utility helicopters first and then attack helos.
#18
It’s not just the spare parts. The ROKAF also hates upgrading its aircraft. Let’s take the example of the F-4E Phantom. Unlike Greece, Turkey, Germany, and Japan, which had upgraded their F-4s to keep up with the times, the ROK operates its F-4s in the same configuration that they were delivered in. Same goes for its F-5E/Fs.
Airwolf is a cultural manifestation of imperialist American culture. The theme song is a reconstituted reprise of Wagnerian martial movements. The color black represents the cancerous heart of the modern American project. The missiles were symbolic of Anglo-American phallic memes. And MacGuyver was a paedophile.
“Of course the KMH was replaced with the KHP(Korea Helicopter Project) when Chung Dong-young decided that it was “cheaper” for Korea to develop its own utility helicopters first and then attack helos.”
That actually makes sense to me. Having an attack copter BEFORE a utility copter project is like putting the kart before the horse.
# 24,
Airwolf was awesome. I’m whistling the theme music as I write this. Although I did see a lot of unresolved American Vietnam War “han” pervading the entire series.
Think about it… Hawkeye’s brother MIA in Vietnam. A super attack helicopter prouncing around the globe. A government that wants “plausible deniability” so they contract Hawkeye to fight back against defiant rinky dink Middle Eastern countries and banana republics. A shadowy government agent who helps as well as hinders Hawkeye.
LOL Dong Chin’s comments are hilarious. Cancerous heart of the American project, LOL.
Shadow arm of the US government he might be but at the end of the day, as Airwolf engages its jet boosters to vanish into the sunset after downing several “baddies” of any ethnicity… one thing is penultimately clear.
HAWKEYE IS KING.
LOL it is funny how resonant Airwolf still is.
I guess we know why the US military moved the Apaches in Korea to Iraq or wherever.
OK, OK, OK it’s Stringfellow Hawk not Hawkeye. Hawkeye was on MASH. SHEESH! We now bring you back to our regularly scheduled program.
“Yea baby. Anyone even remember Airwolf? Clearly that thing is battle tested and if I remember, it even took out jets. LOL. Airwolf, A-team, Knight Rider, MacGuyver, the ZENITH of 80’s American Television.”
During one of the bigger Team Sprit exercises in the mid-80’s, we were out in the field somewhere near Weonju, and I got to talking with a ROKA infantry regiment CSM. I asked him what I thought of our ability to bring in brigades from the US 9th, 7th, and 25th ID’s, as well as an armored BDE from Cal Guard…
“It is overkill. You should just send us Airwolf, Kit, and that crazy guy with the fancy knife! And Maybe Poncharello from CHIPs, to write tickets to the North Koreans.”
Question: Do Koreans still refer to a Swiss Army knife as a “맥가이버 칼”?
Yes, they do.
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