Look who else is giving the KORUS FTA the gas face:
It was confirmed Wednesday that U.S. presidential candidate Hillary Rodham Clinton had sent President George W. Bush a message saying she will not support a free trade agreement (FTA) with South Korea, ahead of a similar letter sent by Democratic contender Barack Obama.
Clinton, along with 11 other Democratic senators, accused South Korea of being a “repeat offender” in trades with the United States and urged the U.S. Trade Representative (USTR) to take trade-laws-based measures against countries like Korea and China before pursuing FTAs with them.
Damn that’s a frightening photo of Mrs. Clinton, too. Looks like something out of a George Romero movie.
Earlier, Sen. Obama also said “NO” to the KORUS FTA. Sen. McCain, on the other hand, seems to like it.
79 Comments
If anything, Hillary knows how to spread her butter. Just look at her history.
Any ways, Hillary gets a lot of money and votes from the UAW and similar labor unions. The FTA removes all tariffs on Korean cars, that means a weaker U.S. auto industry and beer bellied UAW members who can’t get six figure salaries for tightening lug nuts on Chevy bumpers.
And the FTA does NOT remove all tariffs and non-tariff barriers on US auto imports into e the overpaid Korean autoworker (relative to the domestic wage std) can continue to swill his similarly protected soju and Hyundai can continue to collect monopolist profits with which to corrupt the domestic political system.
UAW employees still paid more… Much more. Even Hyundai’s non-unionized Alabama workers are still paid more then unionized Hyundai workers in Korea.
The UAW is grossly inefficient. Don’t pretend it’s not true.
and beer bellied UAW members who can’t get six figure salaries for tightening lug nuts on Chevy bumpers…
taking coffee breaks, cigarette breaks, and breaks-to-file-grievances breaks between each lugnut.
I have some friends who worked as engineers in Detroit, and the stories that they tell about what the union guys pulled, on a daily basis would make your head spin.
Well… I had a friend whose mom worked as a controller at Delphi. The UAW workers there were just filling batteries with lead. They drove Lexus and Mercedes and made around $100k a year.
Much of what the candidates are saying about the KORUS FTA is likely to change once Michigan, Ohio, and a few other key states vote in November.
John McCain only supports the FTA because the old geezer still thinks its the cold war era and Korea is a loyal US ally (ie. is still a sychophantic toady licking our boots for aid money while secretly hating us). He probably has memories of making a port call here in the 1960s when Koreans were still enamored with US GIs. Somebody needs to wake him up to the new reality, but I’m suspicious that the old dog doesn’t learn new tricks.
John McCain only supports the FTA because the old geezer still thinks its the cold war era and Korea is a loyal US ally (ie. is still a sychophantic toady licking our boots for aid money while secretly hating us). He probably has memories of making a port call here in the 1960s when Koreans were still enamored with US GIs. Somebody needs to wake him up to the new reality, but I’m suspicious that the old dog can’t learn new tricks.
So, is that our choice? To support unionized assholes in the US or in Korea? Well, then I choose the US. If there’s ANYONE with a beer gut still making a living wage in the US, more power to him. What American would prefer to give the jobs to Koreans? WHo I understand are pulling down around W60,000,000 a year. Quite handsome in an economy where the average HOUSEHOLD makes W44 mill. And are they doing more than screwing on lugnuts? And then refusing to eat American beef for dinner that night?
Koreans have already taken enough industry away from the US. Steel. Ships. Electronics. Let Joe Six pack make money in the US and support OTHER US businesses for now. Think of communities, not just unionized workers.
Not to say that in the near future, we don’t desperately need to take down the unions. I hate em. But if we kill the FTA, there’ll still be a US auto industry to try and salvage when we do so!
Economically, I think I’m a pretty flexible thinker. I even think that protectionism makes sense some times. I’d be all for protecting the U.S. auto industry if it actually brought long term benifits to said industry, but I don’t think it will.
The big three’s thinking is just too Detroit traditional. Every time they have been given an industry challenge they have fumbled or punted away. Did they make a range of appealing small cars? No. Did they ever match the Japanese in terms of quality (can’t even match the quality of Japanese cars built in the U.S.). No. Did they create a brand that came close to matching German luxury. No. What happened when Detroit couldn’t compete w/the Japanese (and lesser extent the Koreans) in small and mid-sized cars? They didn’t roll-up their sleeves and say let’s try harder and work smarter. NOOooo… They said, “let’s take an SUV, lobby the government to classify it as a ‘light truck’ so it won’t qualify for the gas guzzler tax!” They took the easy way out and look at where that strategy has gotten them now? All those Ford Explorers and Hummers that dealers can’t even give away. GM had the chance to be a first mover and CORNER the market in electric cars but NOOoooo… It’s absolute stupidity and I hate stupidity.
You know the main reason why GM is somewhat stabile while Ford and Chrysler are flirting with bankruptcy? Cause they bought Daewoo back in 1999 during the Asian financial crisis. That gave them a whole small and mid-car unit with international distribution. It’s currently the most profitable GM division and sells the most cars into China. Do you think the Chinese want Hummers? Oh please.
Detroit has been given it’s chances and the government has helped along the way. As I’ve said before, throughout the years they have either fumbled or punted away. America should put their eggs in other more deserving industries such as media technologies, life sciences, pharma, capital goods, software, high-end entertainment electronics, etc. As far as the auto industry? Let it die the death that it’s choosen for itself OR… let it reinvent itself if it has the will to do so.
Yea because Daewoo makes awesome cars right?
American cars believed and designed according to cheap gas and crap design. THey are changing now.
But your inane arguement that DAEWOO somehow is the bedrock of GM solvency is laughable.
Before you rip “DETROIT” I propose to you that you first show me a Korean car better than the 1967 Ford Mustang Fastback.
‘Nuff said.
IronChef,
Click this.
…And this.
Regarding the rest of your post, I’ll say this. Consistant, reliable performance beats inconsistant brilliance in the long run.
AFL-CIO, UAW, are North American communists who self destructed the auto industry and other manufacturing industries within the US.
The Hyundai auto union will get their asses kicked soon, too.
Both had similar tactics.
Holding hostage the auto mobile production line, and a fat part of the economy, for their SELFISH gains.
steady, steady, they gained. They almost made more money than they deserved with their level of education. $100k ish with highschool +.
Then, they found out about foreign auto makers.
That’s when the US auto industry died, and Michigan with it.
Hyundai will suffer the same fate, unless they find a union buster to save the day.
thanks to predecessors, GM, Ford, and Chrysler spend more money on social benefits of people who RETIRED than on current workers.
I can’t believe that you actually admit that Hyundai cars will sell like HOT CAKES when the KOR-US FTA goes thru.
I thought you said “they WEREN’T cars”?
Dirty, two face, Korea hating, douche bag.
These Democrats are irrational socialists, protectionists. They’re slogan is that ending the war will solve ALL PROBLEMS.
Kim Su Bok, that name sounds very familiar. You ‘re not Korean, though, right?
The Germans and Clinton govt money saved Chrysler, but it’s still dysfunctional, and the Germans are eager sell Chrysler, just be Daimler-Benz. Makes the stock price prettier.
The 3 will be in the hole, until they find a way to rescind on social benefits promised to current and retired union members. Not likely. They’ll be sued to hell.
I think the Japanese and Korean auto plant workers in the US are barred from joining the UAWorkers. The company’s doing great. I’m sure the workers make less. But, they’re not looking like they’re losing their jobs next year.
Objectively, the Big 3 still makes great cars. It’s just that the American consumer likes that extra, so they go for Japanese or German. Great patriots.
@Wangkon
I think someone just completely missed the point of your argument, especially with the Ford Mustang comment…
But what about Saturn? I thought they were moving more towards hybrid/fuel-efficiency than anything else. Or is that too early or too recent to make any impact?
‘But your inane arguement that DAEWOO somehow is the bedrock of GM solvency is laughable.’ iron chef korean
‘click here.’ wang
‘iron, you say what in response?’ pawi
reminds me of coming upon a post written by a chinese guy question whether korea really did have over a million immigrants or foreigners. the guy was angry. he was angry because he understood what it said about korea economically. same as iron here.
iron, do you any response to wang? lol!
FTA or no FTA, American makes are doomed, no matter what they do. And it ain’t because of Korea that they’re in this position. I’m not looking forward to that day when they go out of business one by one. That will hurt millions of people both in the US and Canada.
iron, here is the first verse from forbes article just in case you wuz too lazy to click:
‘Since General Motors (Charts) bought the Korean automaker Daewoo (the name means “great universe”) out of bankruptcy four years ago for $1.2 billion, it has embarked upon an incredible transformation. Today GM-Daewoo is actually making money. It helped generate $831 million in profits for GM Asia-Pacific, on sales of $8 billion in the first half of this year, up from a net loss of $535 million on $3.6 billion sales for the same period last year.’
iron, you say what?
Thank God Daewoo Motors was run into the ground by its corrupt management so GM could afford to (and be allowed to) buy it.
“Thank God Daewoo Motors was run into the ground by its corrupt management so GM could afford to (and be allowed to) buy it.”
Pawi, you say what?
That protect-us argument was made for the Koreans from the ’60s through the ’90s.
Decades of protection from US, Japanese and European vehicles enabled the Koreans to sell dear at home whilst cheap overseas. I can remember when foreign imports were measured in the hundreds. Total. Per year. And this wasn’t too long ago. Japanese cars were forbidden - the first Japanese brands permitted were those models made in the USA. And to sour the market further the lucky few who could actually afford a one were subject to tax audits by the gov’t and and their rides routinely vandalized by their compatriots. Anyone here remember the gov’t run kwasobi campaigns?
The two Koreas were probably the only markets in the world (well one is a market) were Japanese cars were absent from their respective streets.
Obviously the Korean auto industry benefitted. Sure, the Korean consumers were stuck with crap they dutifully bought, but they’re happy proles anyway.
Let’s give the US the same consideration for a few years. Am I really to believe the US consumer will harmed by the absence of Hyundai?
I’m not sure why you’re crowing pawi. The point of the articles wangkon linked is this:
Korean-owned, Korean-(mis)managed Daewoo = bankrupt pile of shit.
American-owned, American-managed Daewoo = profitable and stable.
What is it about that equation that you’re so excited about?
Heck… I’ll say something.
It’s true that Kim Woo-jung was a great vision guy, but a poor financial manager. He built a company with a lot of cheap government debt, which he got through dubious means, but wasn’t too concerned about whether or not his “Great Universe” made enough money to cover the debt (then again, the Korean government didn’t give him any pressure to think in that manner). The whole house of cards came falling apart once the developed world asked Korea to repay all their short term debt during the economic crisis.
However, Kim Woo-jung built a descent asset in Daewoo automotive. Good range of products, good manufacturing, good distribution, good supplier relationships, etc. It was just not managed properly from a financial perspective. I think I’ve always been consistant in saying that standard American business management practices (from an operational standpoint) are, at this point, superior to Korean management practices. Where American management falls short sometimes is in building long term strategic value.
Detroit has developed a very cancerous attitude which is eating away the big three. This is why big auto manufacturers from other countries don’t set-up shop in Detroit. They set-up shop in the “heartland,” Kentucky, Ohio, Georgia, Alabama, not Michigan. GM’s Saturn started all over again in Tennessee. Apparently with a new agreement w/the UAW. However, that peace didn’t last.
http://www.saturnfans.com/Comp.....tled.shtml
Anyone using a photograph of a pedophile - Christopher Paul Neil - in his gravatar is either: A) a complete prick or B) mentally unwell. (Both?)
you’re right, globe, i’ll change the avatar.
# 21,
The point of the article is…
1) It’s a good thing GM has Daewoo Automotive.
2) It’s a good thing that Daewoo Automotive has GM.
However, it’s not to say that a Korean company that struggled during the economic crisis NEEDS U.S. management to right the ship. KIA did okay under Hyundai ownership and Hyundai’s chip making business (we know it as Hynix) got out of insolvency and has become one of the top chip making companies in the world.
The US should not trade with Korea period.
Maybe having the President of Korea Deposit Insurance Corporation, the Head of ‘Large Enterprise Support Division’ at Korea Exchange Bank, and the Head of Corporate Finance for Woori Bank on their Board of Directors didn’t hurt Hynix’s chances of surviving its extended debt workout program, either.
Shorter #22: Daewoo was great at every aspect of business, except making money.
I understand where you’re going WK, but it’s a fairly pointless exercise to list all the positive attributes of Daewoo when the biggest flaw was the only one that actually mattered. I’m sure Ken Lay was nice to his cats and opened doors for ladies, but who really cares?
Daewoo Motor was also involved in plenty of the fraud and sketchy accounting that the rest of the company was. My favorite anectdote was Daewoo Motor’s failed venture into Ukraine for manufacturing. The Ukrainian govt gave them all kinds of incentives and tax breaks on the promise of continued presence and jobs. Daewoo was losing money there, so they shut down production and claimed they couldn’t get parts to continue running the plant.
The Ukrainian government threatened them with seizure of assets, so Daewoo pulled this beauty: They shipped complete cars produced in Korea to the Ukrainian border, disassembled them, shipped them across the border to their Ukrainian plant, and reassembled them.
They then claimed production and sales numbers from Korea to Europe on the original cars, then “produced” and sold the reassembled cars in Europe and counted them a second time in the books. As a topper on the fraud cake, they used the European reassembly and sales numbers to obtain more loans to keep the whole scam going.
Yes, Daewoo Motor was an asset, but it was stained with the stink of corruption and fraud just like the rest of the company. It was no exception to the rule as you’re trying to imply.
You write this as if there’s some sort of equivalency. There isn’t.
Daewoo was a nice, but hardly essential, acquisition for GM. Given the state of the company at the time they acquired it, and the risks involved (hostility to foreign companies in Korea, militant union, degradation of the Daewoo brand), it was not a slam dunk, which is why there were no serious Korean suitors. In hindsight, it obviously looks great for GM, and hopefully will continue to be so. But the reason they paid the paltry sum of $1.2 billion was because Daewoo was a steaming pile that no one wanted any part of. The turnaround and success are due to GM.
But for Daewoo, this was a lifeline. It was not merely “good” that Daewoo has GM. It was vital, and without the power and continued investment of GM behind it, Daewoo would simply not exist. Let’s not pretend it was essential for both sides involved.
Glad those are WangKon’s balls in iheart’s avatar, and not mine.
Well, you gotta take care of the debt the best way possible. You either get a little discount and pay off the banker (as in GM’s case w/Daewoo Automotive) or you make friends w/the banker and ask him for a break.
As long as the bank has reasonable assurance that it will make most of their money back.
Well, you gotta take care of the debt the best way possible. You either get a little discount and pay off the banker (as in GM’s case w/Daewoo Automotive) or you make friends w/the banker and ask him for a break.
As long as the bank has reasonable assurance that it will make most of their money back.
Hyundai’s Ulsan may become Michigan quickly, if the time tested Korean favorite, the Japanese car, was allowed to compete truly freely with the Hyundai.
Koreans will forsake all regard for national trade, national production, bank loans, bank rates, and fill up (just like US gyopos) with about 80% Japanese cars roaming the roads.
This is my prediction.
Thus, to stop the Japanophile Koreans, Korean military capitalist dictators had no choice, but to ban Japanese cars.
Right now, all that restricts this from happenning is unreasonable, protectionist tariffs.
Meanwhile, the Hyundai Autoworker’s Union in Ulsan can still live like kings, just like UAW members did, up to mid 80’s. And hold the national economy at hostage, to fill their stomachs, and get yet another raise.
Same thing for the MLB guys. They hold the whole league in hostage and the highest level of competition of baseball, and even the World Series at hostage, so they could get a RAISE. That’s why a significant % said good-bye. And stupid baseball, responded with juiced homeruns and fake tits, I mean, fake homeruns.
All unions are in it for themselves, to benefit at the expense of other people. Like parasites.
by the way, most of you talk like pros about things you don’t own.
Saturns, Hyundais, etc…
of course, the tariff thing for cars was also inspired from looking over the shoulder of the Japanese.
Japanese cars doing fair game in Korea would be like,
throwing porn at a boy who reached puberty.
Robert, can you make a category which links to a complete constantly-updated list of all of iheartblueballs’ posts? Or improve the search function so you can look for posters by name?
They’re so fucking good that slowly over the past while they are what I most want to read here. No need to give me the whole thread…just his bits.
Actually almost of all of GM’s international units are doing well. It’s the US business that is suffering under the weight of the huge pool of retirees from an era where the UAW could basically write work rules that dictated ever increasing numbers of less productive employees plus demand and get sky high benefits and wages.
IHBB,
Let’s take a look at your summary:
Korean-owned, Korean-(mis)managed Daewoo = bankrupt pile of shit.
American-owned, American-managed Daewoo = profitable and stable.
Unlike your summary, both articles I linked to didn’t make a big stink about the national identities of either company, but you do. Since neither article did, neither did I in my summary in comment # 25.
Let’s take your point to your logical conclusion. Are you saying that Korean management is shit and American management is perfect? Or are you saying that all Korean companies are better off being managed by American companies? What are you trying to say?
You should reread my # 22. Where did I ever say that the entire Daewoo chaebol was “great” in every way? When I say that Kim Woo-jung was a “great vision guy” I don’t mean that he’s “visionary” or anything like that. He’s a guy who thinks big and will do anything to achieve his goals. Does that mean he’ll cook the books, break the law and pander to officials to get cheap debt? Yep, it means that too. I don’t know about what happened in the Ukraine, but I’ll take your word for it that it happened.
I’m not listing all the positive attributes of Daewoo. The Daewoo of 1997 was a sprawling conglomerate. I was focusing on Daewoo Automotive, which not only had real assets, but is relevant to the thread at hand. If it didn’t, GM would of never bought it.
The fact of the matter is that Daewoo Automotive benefited heavily from GM’s management (which seems to operate a lot better outside Detroit). It could even be a good indication of how good GM’s management could be if it’s not handcuffed by the UAW. But the fact of the matter is that GM has also benefited from Daewoo Automotive. You know 32% of GM’s total sales to China are Daewoo cars? That’s huge. Before DA, GM had virtually no cars that China and other developing countries would want to buy. Even Buicks sold in Europe have Daewoo technology in them. Given where oil prices are at today, Daewoo has literally helped GM be in a stronger position then the other big three. I see nothing wrong with saying that and I stand buy it. Not because DA is a Korean-based company or because I have some ethnic affiliation, but because small cars that don’t use a lot of gas is just good business common sense, a common sense that has been missing from Detroit for a very long time.
recent fav, johnson
http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/.....ent-152656
Sort of OT, but we aren’t talking about Clinton anymore, and this is hella funny. Today’s FT:
You know 32% of GM’s total sales to China are Daewoo cars?
Please; they (like all Daewoo’s pre-acquisition vehicles were, btw) are GM cars that are assembled in the old Daewoo factories by Korean workers, out of parts a large proportion of the engine, transmission and other major mechanical and electrical components also are GM, GM-related (Delphi) or other foreign-sourced goods.
The physical and IP assets that GM acquired when it bought Daewoo were ones that in effect GM had earlier provided to Daewoo during their joint venture days and the value of which was proven in a way that most of the other “value” on the Daewoo books could not be (because, as in the case of the Ukrainian scam described by Blueballs, it was fictitious - which btw was a sort of scam that, if anything, was even more widespread in Daewoo’ other businesses, as revealed by and in the insolvency and similar proceedings involving which in which I was involved on behalf of various creditors)
Moreover, even that relatively small % of Daewoo’s physical and IP assets that had any value were only a small part of the purchase price, the bulk of which has to be attributed to (very overpriced) real estate and, in effect, a toll extorted by the ROKGOV troll (in the guise of the state policy banks that controlled the process) for entry to the Korean market (and disingenuously allocated — in a typical Korean distortion of reality — to “good will”).
look, let’s just face it; a KOREAN company saved an american icon. what’s wrong with that? i, for one, am proud in two ways: one, i’m glad my people could help my country and two, i’m glad my country could help my people. korea has given america jobs and i’m proud of that.
yep, damn proud.
How’s the oxygen level in that alternative universe you inhabit, goose?
Great…
I just lost my long ass comment in response to # 40 because I accidently hit back.
My basic point was that the GM technology shared with Daewoo back in the late 80’s was not purely GM. It also included technology from Suzuki, Isuzu and Subaru, which GM owned pieces of at the time.
Also, all Korean auto manufacturers developed start-up technology with foreign companies. They had to. They didn’t have a 100 year head start. Hyundai engines for the longest time were of Mitsubishi design.
Daewoo’s platform for the Chevy Aveo, which is GM’s small car flagship in the U.S. is the T200, which was NOT a direct result of the GM/Daewoo JV. The T100 was a result of the JV and naturally the T200 had some T100 technology, but it’s a generation removed.
Aren’t there 3 big elephants in this room?
GM, Ford and Chrysler are Daewoo Motors X 3.
They make shit cars that even rednecks no longer want to buy.
Corporate viruses (admittedly GMs acquisition of Daewoo went well, but will it be enough to save the parent from its decline?)
I for one like Pawi’s choice of avatar. Probably makes the white bread english teachers nervous though.
GM posted a loss of $38.7 billion in 2007. Enough said.
Thanks for further refining and establishing my point that Daewoo, as a Korean company, in effect contributed little if anything in the way of important capital and IP assets to GM-Daewoo. It’s contribution is primarily that of relatively cheaper labor and a high-priced ticket into the Korean market itself.
<> Right; and it’s nothing of which to be so ashamed as to feel compelled to point out the obvious about Western companies’ perceived chronological advantage.
(The defensiveness is a sort of persistent fallout with a long half-life from the sort of racist derogation of Koreans in which more extreme proponents of Japanese colonialism indulged during the late 19th and early 20th centuries. It’s understandable, but disappointing that so many Koreans have yet to get passed it. OTOH, it’s intolerable that so many, e.g., Goose, also are so addicted to making hysterical and preposterous claims about Korean ingenuity and originality or thrashing around with the facts to obscure rather than clarify what’s really happen(ed)(ing).
“Moreover, even that relatively small % of Daewoo’s physical and IP assets that had any value were only a small part of the purchase price, the bulk of which has to be attributed to (very overpriced) real estate and, in effect, a toll extorted by the ROKGOV troll (in the guise of the state policy banks that controlled the process) for entry to the Korean market (and disingenuously allocated — in a typical Korean distortion of reality — to “good will”).”
Did GM overpay for Daewoo? Probably not. Ford initially offered $6.9 billion, then bailed out when they looked at the books. GM and Fiat initially offered $4 billion. At the end of the day GM got their 67% stake for $400 million cash. Things like convertible debt and other instruments made the total consideration $1.8 billion for all the parties that put equity into the deal.
“I for one like Pawi’s choice of avatar.”
Sorry to read that you find amusement in the needless use of a pervert’s image. The commenter in question has said he will replace it with another. I hope he follows through on it.
“Probably makes the white bread english teachers nervous though.”
No, why would it? It just happens to be in poor taste to use an infamous child molester’s picture for an avatar. I would hope that most people, regardless of ethnicity or profession, would see a problem with using this sub-human piece of shit to attract attention to themselves. And if you’ve bothered to check out the news clips from Bangkok, this sicko really seems to enjoy the attention, so why not give him some more, eh?
“The defensiveness is a sort of persistent fallout with a long half-life from the sort of racist derogation of Koreans in which more extreme proponents of Japanese colonialism indulged during the late 19th and early 20th centuries.”
It’s statements like these that makes me want to puke. Idiots like you see the world in the categories of “Crazy Koreans”, “Ultranationalist Gyopos”, and “Expats”. A gyopo can’t say anything that might even have an inkling of giving props to anything related to Korea without being labeled as “defensive”, “nationalist”, and for some reason “racist”.
Take Wangkon’s point, for example, which wasn’t about “Goooooo Daewoo!” (since he’s criticizing the former mega-corp’s financial management), “Goooo Korea!” (since GM Daewoo is, after all, a part of GM), yet when he makes a point that Daewoo automobile had no choice but to intake other company’s technology (since there isn’t one to begin with), it’s labeled as defensive. When he refers to the actual fact that Daewoo has become profitable under GM management, it’s somehow considered nationalist (because praising GM’s management skill is such a display of mindless nationalism). When an actual fact that Daewoo’s design/tech on small, fuel-efficeint cars aided GM’s success, it’s just another nationalist chest-thumping.
Attempt to at least think about the subject at hand for a moment before posting anything, Sperwer. My eyes hurt from rolling while reading almost anything you write.
Well, first of all, GM did in fact get Daewoo for cheap as I discuss in post # 46. Contributed little if any IP and capital? Are we defining capital the right way? Capital in my book means factories, machines, production lines, etc. I believe GM did shut down a few Daewoo plants but I know they didn’t shut down most of the others. They kept most of the plants in Europe too. As far as IP is concerned, the JV with GM ended in 1992. From 1992 to 2000, Daewoo improved on those designs and effectively made that IP theirs, otherwise Fiat, Ford and Hyundai would of never have been interested in buying the company in 2000. But, what good is IP if you don’t have the capital to produce it or a market to sell it? So for GM’s IP to be of any good, it needed factors that can take it and make products and it needed a brand presence and market position to sell into. Again, at the time of sale, Daewoo was still producing AND selling 2 million cars. Without Daewoo’s factories, distribution or markets, that IP would have been sitting in some dusty shelf in corporate headquarters along side design prints of GM’s electric car.
How is it a “perceived” chronological advantage? First American “horseless buggy” 1893. First Korean car? I don’t know. I think it was sometime in the early 1960’s and it was made from banged out oil drums and probably had a Japanese engine in it. Not ashamed. Just pointing out a fact that should be weighed into consideration.
Huh? Sperwer, you are rambling. Calm down a bit… wipe the foam from your mouth and write me something a little more coherent.
OOoooooh… is THAT why I got jumped? People thought I was being nationalistic? Korean numba one thumping?
Gosh… we got sensitive people in here.
^^;
He had a hard life?
Comment deleted by Robert J. Koehler at 5:29pm.
IHBB,
News flash… Daewoo could of been bought by Hyundai, Fiat or Ford. True that Fiat and Ford passed when the price was at $4-6 billion, but if GM pulled out at $1.8 billion, one of the others would have stepped in.
Linkd,
I had once thought you could tell the difference between intelligent arguments and ones based on ad hominems. Perhaps I was wrong.
For whatever reason, many white guys here have a niggling feeling they are not wanted here, and feel that their well-meaning intentions toward Korea are being rejected. This reaction is common historically, Korea-Japan, US-England, US-Iraq etc, of which the relationship between expats is somewhat similar.
They know they are not wanted but stubbornly resist departure, playing all sorts of games to justify their presence. Its an old game and well documented. Not necessary to do it here.
Easy, dude. This isn’t a pile-on. Just kids having fun.
BTW, you’ll never get a smack-down on blueballs with sheer analytical strength. Your book smarts are not in doubt, and it’s his street smarts we adore.
I forgot:
That’s all ya got, wjk; you’re pathetic.
Beneath contempt, in fact; so rave on. You could even form a “Han” boy band with Goose. I will be tuning out, though.
I stated my view of the point of the two articles, in response to you saying that Daewoo was the “main reason” for GMs stability (wild exaggeration), and pawi using them as some sort of proof supposedly refuting Ironchefkorean’s statement that Daewoo being the bedrock of GMs solvency is laughable (he was correct, that claim is laughable).
Nope, I said Daewoo’s Korean management was shit and GMs American management of Daewoo has been excellent thus far. Any other extrapolations you make are completely your own.
Let’s just say I agree with you that American business management practices are superior to Korean ones, and further that most Korean success stories in the business world are accomplished despite their management practices and not because of them.
Exactly what I said.
You should reread my #28. Where did I ever claim you said that?
I was told about the whole sordid affair by someone with first-hand knowledge, and I also remember reading about it in a business magazine a few years back as well. Google it and I’m sure you’ll find confirmation that I’m not making it up.
I don’t dispute any of this. Daewoo is making a positive contribution to GMs bottom line. The issue is degree.
I assume you mean could have, and who cares? Irrespective of who else could have bought them, that only means that a different company would have thrown the lifeline. That doesn’t change the fact that Daewoo still needed that lifeline. My statement is true regardless. Daewoo was on life support and desperately needed another major manufacturer to give them a management overhaul, rein in their union, and invest billions in order to revive it.
It was not a situation where both companies needed each other, as you implied above. GM was in a position of power and not necessity, Daewoo was desperate, and that’s why GM paid peanuts. The acquisition cost itself is proof positive of the relative positions of strength when the acquisition occurred.
Exaggerations and mischaracterizations that were stated early in this thread lead to this kind of stupidity. I’m not saddling you with that Wangkon, because what I’ve read from you on this blog (outside some of this thread) has been very reasonable and generally intelligent. I just think you were dramatically overstating the impact Daewoo has had and drawing equivalencies of need where they did not exist.
c’mon, blue, everybody and their mothers know your temper tantrum based on the ethnicity of the subjects. fact of the matter is, i couldn’t care less about daewoo saving gm. didn’t even know about it until today. but i do care abot you, blue. do that, indeed.
your friend,
pawi, the rock
波兮 君 干
I’m sorry for the offensive comment.
Yes, Daewoo saved GM. And a massive bailout loan from Korea saved the IMF. And of course the South Korean military saved the U.S. from communism in 1950.
Glad everything is well in pawiland.
IHBB,
That’s a fair thing to say, but I still stand by what I said. But let’s review what I said in comments # 10:
And # 37:
Let’s look at it first financially. GM Daewoo contributes roughly 8% of GM’s total sales (GM’s last twelve months revenue is $180B and GM Daewoo’s is around $15B). GM’s total operating income (the figure that banks look at) is negative $4.3B. GM Daewoo’s operating income is estimated at between positive $1.2B to $1.8B (or a positive 8 to 12% of $15B in sales). Let’s take GM Daewoo out of the ledger and you get an LTM (last twelve months) operating income of negative $5.5 to $6.1B. Without GM Daewoo, GM’s operating income would be adversely affected by 22 to 30%. Believe me, that kind of effect would heavily influence GM’s relationship with its lenders.
Now… let’s see what other analysts are saying:
Gannett News Service, April 28, 2008.
IHT, May 24, 2006
GM had only 3% sales growth last year. It actually shrank in the U.S. and all the growth was in Europe (8.9%), Asia (15%) and Latin American, Africa and the Middle East (19.4%). Take out GM Daewoo built cars and GM wouldn’t have grown at all.
Lastly:
Gasp! Did Grimaldi say Korea and Hub in the same sentence! Blasphemy!
#64 Man-up WJK, it’s out there so grow a pair.
WJK — Please refrain from comments about other people’s wives. Thank you for cooperation.
I appreciate the gesture Robert, but don’t feel obligated to make such interventions (or edits) on my account (or that of my wife, who once sent a Korean flasher packing with a cool appraisal followed by the pronouncement that she didn’t do miniatures.)
@56: I’m sure you know the same is true for many Koreans living abroad.
“…who once sent a Korean flasher packing with a cool appraisal followed by the pronouncement that she didn’t do miniatures.”
————————-
ba-da-da, ba-da-da, ba-da-da, ba-da-da…
Wait! Shhh!
ba-da-da, ba-da-da, ba-da-da…
Can you hear that?
ba-da-da, ba-da-da, ba-da-da…
I think I hear another commentary from baduk fast approaching.
“…who once sent a Korean flasher packing with a cool appraisal followed by the pronouncement that she didn’t do miniatures.”
————————-
ba-da-da, ba-da-da, ba-da-da, ba-da-da…
Wait! Shhh!
ba-da-da, ba-da-da, ba-da-da…
Can you hear that?
ba-da-da, ba-da-da, ba-da-da…
I think I hear another commentary from baduk fast approaching.
I’m so sure, I had to post it twice.
I was wondering how long this was going to take before it turned into a penis thing…
WJK,
That was in very very poor taste.
What did the little fella say?
Point of reflection…
GM paid $1.2 billion for Daewoo Automotive. It’s now $15 billion in sales. I know hindsight is 20/20, but what a freak’in bargin.
Let’s see. Pathetic self denial from the Kyopo and the knowledgeable Expat setting things straight.
Another day in the Hole.
Andy, you’ve got issues.
Andy,
I’ve got a better one for you. If any of these “knowledgeable” expats were a part of GM’s evaluation team back in 2000 I bet you the family farm that because of their severe biases against Korea, Korean companies, Koreans, Korean business practices, Korean society, Korean so on and so forth, they won’t of never done the deal. Daewoo Automotive would have been bought by Hyundai, Fiat or a Chinese car manufacturer (like Ssangyong Motors).
I’m just glad GM’s management wasn’t as jaded, biased and short sighted as some people here.