The Chosun Ilbo’s online edition is featuring stories on the lack of respect for the authority of the police in Korea. The main story details examples of people assaulting the police and not being arrested and teenagers sniggering at the police on the internet. A related story compares how the police deal with demonstrators in the US and elsewhere, noting in particular the quick apprehension of anyone who touches a police officer in the US:
2006년 6월 한·미 FTA 협정 체결에 반대하는 시위대가 미국 워싱턴에 원정시위를 갔다. 이들은 미국 경찰이 사전 허가한 피켓만 들고 허가 받은 구역 내에서 구호만 외쳤다.
In June 2006 a group opposed to the Korean-US FTA went to the US to hold a demonstration. They obtained permission from the police and peacefully picketed in a confined area.
불과 한달 뒤 서울 광화문에서 도심 교통을 마비시키면서 대규모 불법 시위를 주도했던 이들은 왜 미국에서는 ‘순한 양’으로 변했을까. 법을 조금만 어겨도 가차없이 법을 집행하는 현지 공권력을 의식했기 때문이다. 당시 미국 경찰이 한국 원정 시위대에게 사전에 제시한 경고에는 ‘시위대가 경찰의 몸에 손 대면 즉시 체포한다’는 내용도 있었다. 선진국에서도 가끔 과도한 공권력 사용이 문제가 될 때도 있지만, 공권력은 신뢰와 존중의 대상이다.
One wonders why these people who, for one month, paralyzed traffic in the city center behind Gwanghwamun became gentle sheep in the US. It’s because of the awareness that public authorities enforce the law, gloves off, against transgressors on the spot. US law enforcement warned visiting Korean demonstrators through a posted warning, “Demonstrators who touch the police will be arrested immediately.” Although excessive use of police authority can be a problem in advanced countries, it is compensated for by the trust and respect for public authority.
The story mentions the case of the Korean-American man shot eight times after wielding a hammer in a confrontation with the police:
지난해 말 캘리포니아의 한 모텔에 투숙 중이던 한국인 교포는 경찰 경고를 무시하고 망치를 휘두르다가 8발의 총탄을 맞고 즉사했다. 경찰이 지나쳤다는 여론도 있었지만 이내 사그라들었다. 1967년 뉴욕의 컬럼비아 대학에서 학생들이 대학건물 전체를 장기간 점거 농성한 사건이 있었다. 경찰의 가혹한 진압으로 부상자가 속출했지만 뉴욕 시민의 83%는 공권력 투입에 찬성했다.
At the end of last year a Korean-American lodging in a California motel brandishing a hammer ignored police warnings and died after being shot eight times. Public opinion judged that the police had overreacted, but the controversy passed quickly. In 1967, students at New York’s Columbia University occupied university buildings for awhile; when the police moved in, injuring some students in the crackdown, 83% of the public approved.
Next up, Japan and Britain.
일본도 경찰관의 공무집행을 방해하는 것이 ‘금기(禁忌)’시 되는 사회다. 취객들의 난투극이 벌어지거나, 청소년들이 소란을 피우는 현장에 정복 차림의 경찰관이 1명이라도 나타나면 대부분의 경우 상황은 종료된다. 종종 한국에서 원정을 간 소매치기들이 일본 경찰에 흉기를 휘두르며 저항하는 사건이 일간지에 대문짝만하게 실릴 정도다.
Japan, too, is a society in which it is taboo to interfere with police carrying out their duties. Whether drunks are scuffling or teenagers are causing a disturbance, if one police officer shows up, in a majority of cases, the situation ceases. Incidents in which pickpockets plying their trade in Korea and Japan brandishing weapons at the Japanese police appear regularly in daily newspapers.
영국 경찰은 ‘신뢰 받는 공권력’의 상징이다. 오랜 세월 신망을 쌓아 ‘거리의 윤리 교사’로 불리기도 한다. 이런 경찰의 체포에 저항하다가 자칫 경찰관을 다치게 했다가는 상해 정도에 따라 최고 종신형으로까지 처벌할 수 있는 법규도 마련돼 있다.
British police are a symbol of “trustworthy public authority.” The police are called “teachers of street ethics,” a reputation built up over time. Resisting arrest and causing the slightest injury to police will bring the most severe punishment allowed under the law.
Are the police really regarded so highly in Britain?
“Let’s learn from foreign countries” stories aren’t unusual in the Korean media, and this one isn’t remarkable save for the valid point that Koreans causing a public disturbance have little respect for the police who tolerate their antics.
43 Comments
영국 경찰 should be translated as British Police.
I take it you aren’t big on moral relativism.
Correction, ‘they’.
Correction 2:
I take it they aren’t big on moral pluralism.
Boy do I need coffee.
Although excessive use of police authority can be a problem in advanced countries, it is compensated for by the trust and respect for public authority.
Most Americans I know disrespect police because of their excessive use of authority; these two actions are not mutually exclusive. I also think that what we often translate as excessive police force is often more a case of excessive law. For example, I found it pretty ridiculous that I was given a ticket in the US last year for having motorcycle handlebars that rose slightly above my shoulders. But you can’t blame the police officer for doing his job and enforcing a ridiculous law. Or can you?
““Let’s learn from foreign countries” stories aren’t unusual in the Korean media”
That’s pure BS. Everyone here knows Koreans shout Korean superiority about everything. There’s no way Koreans hold hands, sing kumbaya, and repeat “Let’s learn from foreign countries”. Racist Nazis they are, Koreans feel superior, why would they want to learn anything?
Someone once told me that the reason there are such high level of disrespect for the police force in SK is due to their not too pretty history under continuous military regime - that enough time had passed under such condition that the culture of police = bastards was able to establish itself in the society.
@#5
At least within the confines of the city of Tempe, it is the case of excessive law AND excessive/misplaced enforcement - I myself was pulled over and was given $85 ticket for riding against the traffic on the pavement… oh, I was riding my bicycle. As most of us here dryly comment, you can rape someone in Tempe without repercussions, but God help you if you break any bicycle traffic codes. And the pun, if you caught it, was very intentional.
Correct me if I’m wrong here, but I believe the situation in Britain, is the the police, are Her Majesty’s Police, and hence an assault on a police officer is akin to an assault on the Queen, which obviously will land you in some very serious poo.
As for Korean police, they don’t get respect because they don’t deserve any. How many people here have respect for useless, lazy, dumb, bums, no matter what their occupation is. Can we throw Judges into this mix?
‘At the end of last year a Korean-American lodging in a California motel brandishing a hammer ignored police warnings and died after being shot eight times.’
According to this
The weapon was actually a tire iron, and it was raised to strike, hence constituting a potentially deadly weapon. Don’t know about you, but if I were about to be on the receiving end of a tire iron coming down full force, and I had a gun I know what I’d do. Of course, there are other mitigating factors that must me taken into consideration. It’s a case of ‘you had to be there’.
The Korean papers, in many cases little more than scandal mongering shitrags, are wise to provide this kind of advice to its citizens traveling abroad.
Seems as if I cited a different incident. The point remains the same.
I may not wish the job of police officer in the US on anybody, I certainly do what they tell me and in a hurry. Not so much here.
“Are the police really regarded so highly in Britain?”
Yes. Every drunken idiot on every street in the UK knows that if you disrespect an officer verbally, you’re probably heading for a night in the tank. They also know that if you touch an officer with any aggression whatsoever, you’ll be facing charges and, depending on the level of aggression, possibly a custodial sentence.
Much of the difference between Korea and the UK comes down to the knowledge that you most likely won’t be able to buy your way out of charges, and that the police won’t be too lazy to investigate the crime you committed. I’m not claiming the British police are whiter-than-white, but the corruption and incompetence are less obvious and tolerated.
Semi-related: my favourite moment in Korea was walking by the Daechi poice box near Dogok station last summer, and seeing two officers eating ice cream while holding hands. The long, tender arm of the law.
“Correct me if I’m wrong here…”
You’re wrong. Though British police inspire a damn sight more respect/fear than cops here in Korea, the fact they are “Her Majesty’s Police” has nothing to do with it. For some people, in fact, that might provide an extra impetus to attack them!
British Police are also respected because they’re rarely even issued guns, let alone use them.
As for the distinction of Her Maj’s Police or for that matter Her Maj’s Armed Forces, it does engender a greater trust, as they’re seen as the peoples police force rather than an extension of the Government and therefore a not potential tool oppression or distrust. Everyone in the UK knows the role of the modern His/Her Maj is reduced almost entirely to a constitutional figurehead de facto representatives of the people, rather than an elected or unelected politico powermonger.
This is why the armed forces swear allegiance to Her Maj rather than the government and are not permitted to express political allegiances. It may be a fine distinction even perhaps symbolic distinction but it has meaning to most citizens in the UK.
For example how is it that Sheriffs and many other branches of civil service are electable and change every few years in the US? Rather than continuing to serve impartially….
Arghaeri
While your argument makes sense, and is certainly a lot more nuanced than mine, I really think your attitude to this allegiance depends on where you grew up. I was born in London, raised in Edinburgh, and I don’t recall that distinction ever having much meaning to me or the people I knew.
Far from being a symbol of unity and impartiality, I think a lot of Jocks (not to mention Taffs and Northern Irish) view the queen as the embodiment of the resented English establishment. What’s more, the many Republicans in the UK would be overjoyed to see the back of her and her brood, so I don’t see how they would welcome your distinction either.
Correction: that should definitely be “republicans” with a small “r.”
Is #6 genuine or satire? It’s scary that I simply can’t tell.
The sheriff is elected, but the deputies are permanent hires. The sheriff may head up an investigation or give press conferences on major crimes, but it’s the deputies who do the police legwork, including waiting in speed traps. The idea behind an elected sheriff is probably to give accountability to the department by letting the people elect its head. Certainly, there can be issues with money supporting a particular candidate, but I don’t see sheriff’s departments as any better or worse than city departments.
If you see them with guns, look out because these guys seem to kill with impunity, much like what happened to the Brazilian electrician on the tube a couple of years ago: five bullets in the head for a blameless man and no one was found guilty though the police paid a fine! The UK is also rapidly becoming a very Orwellian society in the worst sense — one that I am less likely to visit as time passes.
I might be afraid of regular Korean police with guns too but only because they might accidentally shoot their fellow officers while reenacting their favorite movie scenes.
Hmm… what is the educational requirement for becoming a police officer? Over here, the educational requirement vary by cities, and cops from Glendale & Phoenix (who require high school diploma) have very different reputation from cops from Gilbert & Chandler (who require B.A. or B.S.)
“The UK is also rapidly becoming a very Orwellian society in the worst sense — one that I am less likely to visit as time passes.”
How so? I’ve seen and heard such fears before, but never could figure it out, not being too terribly interested in UK domestic politics & current event.
gyopos planning to vote for Obama should know that he vehemently opposes KOR-US FTA, much like 100% of the Conserv and Liberal US citizens residing in South Korea.
he’s full of air.
“i love Korea. My wife is Korean. My children are half Korean.”
1. No KOR-US FTA.
2. No USFK.
3. No visa waiver from ROK to US.
I love Korea.
–white guy in Korea.
Elgin
What is an Orwellian society in the best sense?
Bum, I believe R. Elgin means this.
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/.....article.do
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/.....article.do
It seems that even with all those CCTV cameras watching the British public, the police in there aren’t fairing much better than their counterparts here in South Korea in the crime solving department, but at least they don’t label the common household fan pulic enemy number one like those here when it comes to murder to mask their total ineptitude, or just plain laziness, when it comes to these types of crimes.
A couple of points. The building occupations at Columbia University in New York and subsequent police busts and police riots occurred in April and May of 1968, not 1967 (yes, I was a participant). The public at large may have approved of the busts, but their view was highly influenced by the New York Times whose chief editor at the time was one of the university trustees. The NY Times story of the largest bust of building occupiers, in which nearly a thousand students were arrested, many were severely beaten, and the police deliberately engaged in extensive vandalism and blamed it on the students, was written and published before the events actually happened and was wildly inaccurate, a real case of ‘insider’ journalism.
As for police in Japan, while in general I don’t dispute what the article is trying to claim about their public image, the great exception is when the police come in contact with organized crime (yakuza) and extreme right-wing organizations. On occasions far too numerous to count, I have witnessed the Japanese police showing extreme deference or backing down and retreating with their tails between their legs in arguments and confrontations with right-wing goons or the minions of gang bosses. This appears to have gotten a little better since the late 90s. But Japan is rife with police corruption and many incidents of individual renegade policemen committing abuses or running amok have not helped their public image. Rather than the police being respected, I think it’s more a case of the general Japanese populace being much more easily intimidated than their feisty Korean cousins.
I think BumfromKorea in #7 has it right about the historical baggage of police in South Korea. The many decades of thug rule on the streets, recruitment of the very lowest and most brutal segments of society to ubiquitous ‘plainclothes’ (but instantly recognizable) goon squads, the pervasive surveillance, gratuitous beatings, widespread torture, and chronic clouds of tear gas that were endemic to Korea until the early 90s are a very hard legacy to get over. And in parallel with that you have the ‘rite of passage’ aspect of street demonstrations for several generations of college students from 1960 on, in which escalation of violent tactics was part of manhood, self-validation, and establishing credibility.
The one you read about in Orwell’s 1984, since that one is fiction and serves as an example of how things can go wrong in a society. You are right, still; there is no such thing as a better version of Orwell’s bleak story in real life.
Well, I guess that would depend on which community the cops are addressing:
http://kr.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZNx0xHe0p0
Mr. RJK, is those guys don’t want to adapt to the land they have settled in,
why the fuck are they in London, versus staying in the Arabian Peninsula?
Same thing for the Chinese who just live in Chinatown, the Koreans who just live in Koreatown, the Latin Americans who demand every service in Spanish, when they’ve been here for fucking 10 years, and are under 30.
Learn English. It will open many doors.
what do you think will happen, if say a Korean student was told,
he has to be proficient in Tagalog,
because of roughly the same reason why a US student has to be proficient in Spanish?
so much bullshit.
Yeah, for emergent needs, you need a translator, but at what point is it that, they won’t learn the language of the land?
Korean student in the Republic of Korea…
robert that is a good video of how out of control islam is in europe
as for koreans not respecting cops its based on their lack of respect for civil authority
you could replace the muslim loons in that video with koreans and its pretty much the same outcome
“Someone once told me that the reason there are such high level of disrespect for the police force in SK is due to their not too pretty history under continuous military regime - that enough time had passed under such condition that the culture of police = bastards was able to establish itself in the society.” - bumfromkorea
Personally, I think soon after that “not too pretty history”, the pendulum swung in the opposite direction and police in Korea have been extra-sensitive to take a “hands-off” approach; and over time that has become the prevalent culture.
I don’t think it’s the “police = bastards” line of thought that provokes such disregard. I think it’s the opinion that “police = flaccid space occupiers”.
#18 “The sheriff is elected, but the deputies are permanent hires.”
This actually varies from state to state. Mississippi deputies work at the will of the sheriff. When a new sheriff is elected, he can clean house and replace all the deputies if he wishes. Sheriffs and deputies are still not allowed to use radar in Mississippi. The state government doesn’t trust them to use it wisely.
Regarding #19, if I remember rightly, the “blameless man” you are talking about was followed by police as he came out of a house with known connections to Islamic terrorists.
This was a short time after bombs had exploded on the underground and he was carrying a rucksac. No crime in that of course but then, at the entrance to the station, when asked to stop by the police, he ran down the escalators and onto the train.
Does the police shooting what looked very much like a terrorist in the act of carrying out a follow-up bombing on a train really indicate a tendancy to kill “with impunity”?
And the fact that there was a very long public debate about the events of that day is, I would say, evidence in and of itself that Britain is hardly “rapidly becoming a very Orwellian society in the worst sense”.
I laugh everytime i see some idiot claiming the chosun is conservative.
#18 Sonagi, was going to query your comment, but see that nosaj1000 has covered it. Woulod be curious to know the extent that nosaj’s comment applies in the US.
#19 Elgin, “If you see them with guns, look out because these guys seem to kill with impunity.”
Elgin, you complain about the poor or total lack of logical arguments from some commenters, and then to lead by example put up a completely fallacious and moronic comment like that.
The debate is about the comparative respect of police forces, the example given was that the British Police are rarely issued, let alone use guns, not never issued. not never used, not no mistakes are ever made. You fallciously come up with one example! Kindly, compare with the statistics of police use of firearms in the US and resulting deaths.
US of fireams has increased in recent times in the UK particularly since 9/11, but most violent criminal are dealt with by manpower and batons. Police in the UK are not routinely issued weapons. Some police are trained in use of firearms, and armed response units are used. However, these units are usually limited and are generally called out to high risk situations only.
Mistakes, regretfully do happen, but its difficult to make a fatal mistake if you don’t have a gun in the first place.
“Use of” not “US of”
#15 Above Criticism
All valid points but I’m making case for separation from the political state and particularly in the context of comparison with the Korean police, where I believe the “hands off” approach of the Korean state is a very real result of the previous dictatorship and use of police and armed forces to maintain that dictatorship. I do however think as noted elsewhere above that this reluctance has now become a culture in itself in the korean police force and has had the obvious natural consequence in terms of respect.
My reflection ofn the oath to allegiance, was in terms of the symbolic separation of the police and armed forces from the state not in terms of a genuine allegiance to the Queen herself or of unity of the nation given as I stated that most people in the UK are fully aware of the reality of a constitutional monarchy having no real power. I think its not really a topic is often conciously raised in most peoples mind. However, where the topic has risen, to most people I’ve discussed it with, the differentiation has had meaning, be it Scottish, Welsh, or English (Northern Irish perhaps unsurprisingly, often see it differently.)
Also, most of the devolution arguments I’ve seen have been about devolution of the state, in the sense of government, not so much the contitutional monarchy. After all, the monarchy of England/Wales and Scotland was unified under the Scottish Stuarts not the English Tudors whose line died with Elizabeth.
I agree that many Republicans in the UK would be overjoyed to see the back of Her Maj and her brood, but again the distinction was in terms of symbolic separation of State from the police and armed force whose role is to protect the people. I have met many current and ex members of the forces who are not supporters of the crown but nonethless recognise and respect that their oath of allegiance symbolises an oath to serve the nation not whomever is currently in control of the government.
Personally, I am only a monarchist in the sense that as long US and other tourists want to spend their hard earned dollars for the Royal experience then its a modest price to pay, not to mention that the alternative might be George Bush or Hilarious Clinton.
Also I might note that the last two defacto “presidents” of the UK are in fact scottish.
#18 Sonagi, was going to query your comment, but see that nosaj1000 has covered it. Woulod be curious to know the extent that nosaj’s comment applies in the US.
Nosaj1000’s example of Mississippi is a good reminder that it is difficult to generalize about the US not only because of its diverse population but also its complicated political divisions under a constitution which expressedly reserves for the states all powers not delegated to the federal government.
I am from Michigan and have lived in Illinois and Virginia. I don’t know the latter well enough to generalize, but in Michigan and Illinois, county sheriffs are viewed as simply another form of law enforcement whose distinction with city departments is jurisdictional, not qualitative. In Michigan, we have not only state, city, and county law enforcement, but also township police for heavily populated yet unicorporated township subdivisions of counties. In other words, in Michigan there are at least two, sometimes three types of law enforcement with concurrent jurisdiction: county and state in rural areas and city/township, county, and state in cities with their own police departments. Virginia differs from most other states in that its cities are politically separate from the surrounding county; thus, a county law enforcer has no jurisdiction within city limits, and city police departments must hire a sheriff to serve certain kinds of warrants and manage the jail.
The only online brief yet comprehensive state-by-state breakdown of the role of sheriffs is this Wiki entry. Thirty-three out of the fifty states are included.
As I said, I am from the midwest and have always viewed county sheriff’s departments as simply another form of law enforcement with no negative connotations. The only general distinction I’m aware of is that everywhere I’ve lived, people think that small town and rural law enforcement can be petty, using speed traps and the like as a means of revenue enhancement.
re: #34, that report you mention “Marcus” was the initial misinformation offered by the English police. What actually happened was quite different (see link ) .
The English police basically tried to cover their incompetence, which lead to one of their armed policemen panicking and shooting an unarmed Brazilian electrician dead. Here is the load of crap that the police peddled before they were caught lying.
Please notice the difference in accounts. The police were later found guilty of violating pubic safety and were fined.
Regarding the “Orwellian” comment, the UK has more surveillance than any other nation on the planet and is avidly pushing for a national ID system that may be subject to abuse. If one does a search on these topics, there is quite a bit of information already printed about such.
I should also add that I was at City Hall for some hours on Sunday and these die-hard protesters were still marching down the street — about 300 at most — loudly disrupting the mood and even one musical group that was attempting to do a sound check in front of City Hall (they were good).
I have never seen such a bad city scene in all the other cities I have visited throughout the world and IMHO, this sort of ugly protest culture is a blight upon Seoul City and its efforts at tourism and having a public place where the public can come out and enjoy a nice day. How many more people would have been out enjoying the outdoor concert if there was not such interference?!
Protesting in these precious public spaces should be strictly controlled, even if the police have to start arresting people and locking them up for a week to thirty days for public disorder. Any teacher caught protesting should be fired as well; though they may have some rights as a citizen, they should not be allowed to politicize their position or be allowed to hold such a position as an educator.
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[...] of disrespect for the police, locating it mostly among people of, well, a certain age. Hat tip to The Marmot’s Hole. At about 1:30 in the morning on April 25th a taxi rider filed a report of assault at a police box [...]