Reacting to this piece on the death of Michael White in the Korea Times, Brian in Jeollanam-do examines the “cultural differences” meme as it works in both Korea and the United States.
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{ 20 comments… read them below or add one }
I couldn’t find it today, but I know that either you or Korea Beat had an article not too long ago about foreigners wrongly accussed of crimes, and I know a few of the anecdotes started when they were trying to help somebody out. Sounds like that’s a pretty widespread fear, at least based on that KT article. Just curious if that gets talked about in Korean papers, if that happens a lot.
That would be a cultural difference, the paper’s right. However—and I hope I’m not just being hypersensitive b/c I’m a foreigner—I think that only goes so far. That doesn’t excuse the sauna owner, the EMTs, and now the law enforcement officials of what they’re accussed of, if that side of the story turns out to be true.
What would have happened if the same thing went down only the kid was a Korean national and everyone else were nonKoreans?
On a more positive note, at least we are allowed to go into those places now.
How much time does it take for the excuse to become valid? After 1 minutes of the kid being seen floating face first in the pool or after 15?
In spite of this, I’m not sure I totally believe this a case of a foreigner done wrong. I mean, where people are dragging their feet and being stupid because he’s a foreigner. We’ll see what the investigation turns up. This is definitely getting more attention among us because he is a foreigner, though, thus making it into a story when it probably wouldn’t have been one otherwise. While there may be Good Samaritan Laws in effect in some places back home, I wonder how helpful people would have been in the same situation. What is really ugly, though, has been the response of the sauna owner, the EMTs, the police, and the lawyer. But that ugliness is coming to us via Ms. White, and you know it’ll probably stay a case of her word vs. theirs because nobody will come forward and it doesn’t seem like she’s getting a fair deal. That’s where it becomes a foreigner issue, IMO, although I’m sure these things happen to Koreans, too.
Brian — that article would be here:
http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/04/30/more-and-more-foreigners-falsely-charged-report/
Although judging from the article, the problem is not so much “cultural differences” as it is the tendency to find foreigners guilty (via summary judgments by the police or formal trial) whenever a Korean files a complaint against them, regardless of the credibility of the accuser.
And the Korean netizens:
http://news.naver.com/main/read.nhn?mode=LSD&mid=sec&sid1=102&oid=023&aid=0001963283&m_view=1&m_url=%2Flist.nhn%3Fgno%3Dnews023%2C0001963283
Not all the comments are ugly, but enough are.
“Not all the comments are ugly, but enough are.”
Do us a favour and translate a couple?
Cultural Differences At Fault?
***
I find the cultural difference argument to be plain rubbish. China and Korea share the same cultural heritage. Yet, the Chinese Government and authorities react very different when a foreigner is hurt, attacked, murdered.
China is very concerned to show that it is a safe place for at least “white” foreign tourists, workers, and investors. At least up to a few years ago, any Chinese messing with a foreigner was practically a death sentence.
The Chinese Government and press made it loud and clear internally that certain foreign types were not to be messed with.
If this happened inside the China, the sauna’s owner would have already been arrested and demonized. The staff hauled in and drilled until confession was made. The detailed list of visitors that day examined thoroughly and frightfully so. The local Chinese authorities would have acted fast.
The mother of the victim would have been smothered with a chorus of concern, sympathy and comfort by her Chinese neighbors, and friends. They would have made sure… it was not the fault of the Chinese people or system, but the actions of an evil few that allowed her son to die.
No. To be fair to the netizens in question, though, the newspaper doing the reporting didn’t help matters.
Tmartin — All of that may or may not be true, but to be honest, I’m rather glad Korea doesn’t take its cues from the Chinese justice system.
@Tmartin:
You must have lived in a different China than I did. In China, money talks. Period. Unless the crime is a high profile one of national interest, it is easy for wealthy or well-connected Chinese and foreign suspects alike to ‘persuade’ the police of their innocence. Two suspicious cases that come to mind are the alleged suicide of the Chinese woman after arguing with three Korean men and the alleged hit and run death of Darren Russell.
The family owners of my school were feuding, and both sides hired goon squads to beat up the other’s employees. On two occasions, a goon squad occupied the school campus for a temporary period to defend the ownership of one party. The police would not intervene because some were in the pocket of one side, and some in the pocket of the other.
“If this happened inside the China, the sauna’s owner would have already been arrested and demonized. ”
Oh really? I guess the Korean diplomat who died last year in China eating a sandwich got his justice? Or are you talking about alleged China’s racial protection of “whites” only? Please.
I had an issue with an old landlord in China recently. I went to the police as there is a station near my place, and they listened to my side of the story, and resolved the issue when they could have easily taken the landlord’s side.
I guess it depends on which province in China you live in though.
Have you forgotten about the falling death of the Chinese sex worker shortly after an argument with three Korean airline employees? Oh, yeah the Chinese pathologist said she was drunk and there was no evidence of rape and she was distressed on the anniversary of her father’s death or some excuse like that. Please see my comment just before yours. In China, it’s not race or ethnicity but money and status that afford protection to the accused. The exception to this is high profile cases, especially those involving massive corruption even by China’s standards.
I completely agree with Sonagi #9. In China, it’s all about the money and connection. Bribes are a must if you want to do business there and send your children to a prestigious Chinese grade school.
I completely agree with Sonagi #9. In China, it’s all about the money and connection. Bribes are a must if you want to do business there or send your children to a prestigious Chinese grade school.
@ #6
No need to translate Netizen comments at Naver. Just have a look at the wonderful nice things that Koreans and their Kyopo brethren are saying about this tragedy over on Asian-forums like Asia Finest:
Most of the comments from these fine representatives of Korean youth are deriding and making fun of Michael White’s death saying that he was a typical “fat ass American who deserved to die for being so obese” or congratulatory pats on the back for being a member of the superior Korean bloodline which makes them immune to the dangers of Saunas to which white obese foreigners are susceptible.
Yet another classy display of Korean culture and manners.
Tmartin #7,
There is little cultural connection between Korea and China. Korea is a democratic state that has been capitalist for quite some time. China is a former communist state that has just turned to capitalism. There was a formidable gap between the two countries that we call the Iron Curtain. In this regard, I’d say North Korea and China are have many similarities in culture, and this I’d say is a grave concern for potential unification efforts.
If you’re thinking of old cultural vetiges like Confucianism, just think of how much this ideology affects the minds of Koreans. If you justify any arguments based on Confucianism, you’ll be branded a laughing stock. Granted, there are still those old people who hold Confucianism dear to their hearts, but for most younger generations it is a fleeting cultural vestige that is destined to go down in history with Chosun Dynasty.
Economy goes from #10 to #13. Pathetic world uni rankings, decline of competitiveness in the glaobal economy etc… Yup, the nation of Korea is superior to all.
#14, bbundegi:
How do you know they’re all Koreans? That forum is full of other Asian Americans (especially Chinese) as well as White guys.
well i guess now the staff will be trained in basic CPR as should any staff who works around water and the publics use of the resources and facilities
which makes sense to us foriegners but obviously not to koreans
it is a sad tragedy
@ #14 more korean culture for you
http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200805/200805230017.html
The development was a frustrating let-down for Park’s local fans and many took their frustrations to Internet message boards, where they called Ferguson cold-hearted and vowed to support Chelsea or give up watching soccer altogether.
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