Korean netizens are a tad upset after a photo of a young English teacher with his students juxtaposed with a photo of the same teacher at a club in the embrace of three Asian — possibly Korean — women found their way onto the Internet.
Korea’s diligent netizens found the photos and posted them on Daum (under a post entitled “Two-faced Lives of Foreign English Teachers,” which since has been taken down), sparking the inevitable discussion of the quality of foreign English teachers in Korea. Said Internet newspaper Dalian:
Moreover, [netizens], comparing the brightly smiling face of the man in the club photo with the queer expressions on the face of the Asian women, point out that it shows the debauched personal lives some foreign English teachers here.
Interestingly, though, because the faces of the individuals in the photos were not fuzzied out, some netizens pointed out that the posting of the photos amounted to a violation of privacy. Most, however, were horrified that such an individual has been entrusted to teach children. Some netizens are asking whether “we’ve already forgotten the last incident of sexual assault by a foreign English teacher.”
Which incident, and how said lad was sexually assaulting anyone, was not made entirely clear.
Anyway, Dalian reports that voices are clamoring for strengthened standards for the hiring of foreign English teachers. Other netizens criticize Korean women, pointing out that more than a few approach foreign English teachers with some sort of fantasy or intention, and this attitude gives wrong-thinking foreign English teachers the impression that Korea is a country where you can make money and get laid easy.
142 Comments
’some netizens pointed out that the posting of the photos amounted to a violation of privacy…..’
how did the pics find their way on the net? did the expat post them himself? if you post your picture online, how can you expect privacy?
In my opinion, you can’t. I’m not sure what the law is on this, however.
As for how the photos ended up on the Net, it wasn’t made clear, but I’d have to imagine he posted them himself. Of course, I could be wrong.
To the English Teachers: Go out, have fun, sample the local talent. Be discrete and post PG pictures only.
To Korean Netizens: Get a life. Don’t hate on guys getting their freak on. Go out and get it yourself. Besides, isn’t there some Chinese netizen claiming Koguryo or some Japanese netizen claiming Dokdo?
Something like this has become a topic in the U.S. as well:
But the crudeness of some Facebook or MySpace teacher profiles, which are far, far away from sanitized Web sites ending in “.edu,” prompts questions emblematic of our times: Do the risque pages matter if teacher performance is not hindered and if students, parents and school officials don’t see them? At what point are these young teachers judged by the standards for public officials?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....newsletter
I don’t see the problem with this photo, or what it has to do with Korea or sexuality. It’s some people having fun in a club. If you don’t approve, don’t go.
The problem is, it’s Korea, not ABC Western Country. I don’t know how long these guys have been in Korea, but they should realize that by Korean standards, that picture can be seen as inappropriate by the people who employ them. Bad judgement by these guys in posting the pics. No privacy if you put stuff on the web.
And the nutizens are off. Crackling Korea.TM
And yet, those of us who would publicly describe Korea’s prevailing racism and sexual double standards here on Marmot’s Hole get harassed. So how is this poor schlub to know?
Koreans want to hire more qualified English teachers who don’t raid and pilfer their women. Eunuchs perhaps?
“Korean netizens are a tad upset after a photo of a young English teacher with his students junxtaposed with a photo of the same teacher at a club in the embrace of three Asian — possibly Korean — women found their way onto the Internet.”
Jesus Christ. Harden the fuck up you fucking pussies.
The angry netizen response to a western guy with Korean women is pretty ironic considering the much larger number of Korean men who import women from abroad. They’re both racist and sexist. It’s not like the guy was engaged in a sex act either - it’s a posed, funny picture, that’s all.
In a country where a folded pair of jeans disproves a rape, one can easily put forth the proposition that a photo of big-nose in proximity to a native Korean woman is prima facie evidence of sexual assault upon said woman.
And PD Notebook has the statistics and experts to prove it.
# 8,
Well now he knows. Koreans aren’t going to accept foreigners (possibly teaching English to their elementary or middle school aged kids) carousing with their young ladies overnight. Every society has their norms that need to be respected if you choose to live or work there.
If you post pictures on your home page without privacy controls, just assume you are emailing it to your boss.
Like this:
http://www.hereinreality.com/chung.htm
I think I see another pattern emerging. I’m pretty sure that any article which uses the term “Korean netizens” in its first sentence will invariably be filled with mountains of stupidity.
(Yes, I’m aware of the irony of posting this on a message board about Korea. Go back to your Kafka.)
#2 comment on Internet newspaper Dalian.
“성인끼리 클럽가서 논게 큰잘못인지 묻고싶다.클럽가면 외국인만 저러고 노나? 한국인도 다 똑같이 저러고 논다……사진속의 행위가 성추행처럼 보이는가? 한국클럽과 룸등지에서 아주아주 보편적이고 일상적인 일임을 잊지마라”
saying “what’s wrong with picture? How we Korean having fun time in a club or room salon?”
period!.
It looks like it was the man who was being assaulted, not the girls.
It is getting to where a guy cannot go anywhere in Korea anymore without being assaulted by a bunch of liberal Korean girls.
“Eunuchs perhaps?” That’d do.
If we would all obligingly live in one neighbourhood and only debauch each-other, netizen’d probably get off our case, too.
In the best of all possible worlds, maybe we could just commute back to our home countries every night after work and on weekends: then we’d be out of their hair for sure! My six-year-old students seemed to think I did this: they were shocked when they spotted Korean money in my wallet. “Teacher! You have Korean money?” As if I ought to have Canuck Bucks instead.
I’m with all you who who say, “Don’t post that shit online, dumbass,” and don’t forget to remove the tags on facebook.
By the way, anybody else notice the Korea Herald trying to compare English teachers to the 21 Pedophiles banned from entering Korea?
#4,
There is a crucial difference between these two stories: the Washington Post doesn’t mention the ethnicity and nationality of the teachers.
“Every society has their norms that need to be respected if you choose to live or work there.”
In Korea, going to work during the day and dancing with women at night IS the norm. (Sometimes with the boss, on the company tab.)
You are talking about two sets of norms: one for Koreans and one for foreigners.
In other words, Koreans hold foreigners to a higher standard than they hold themselves.
Are you stating this?
Or you are engaging in (racially-charged) hypocrisy by telling foreigners to do as Koreans say and not as they do?
sparking the inevitable discussion of the quality of foreign English teachers in Korea.
what about the quality of korean workers who do this 4-5 nights a week?????
Just another reason why netizens need to be gassed, curb stomped or incinerated out of existence.
Granted, there are other issues at play here, but if a Korean elementary school teacher posted photos like that and netizens found them, it would also make the news — and probably bigger news outlets than Dailian.
#22: Good point, Robert. If it had been any kind of civil servant the media would have had a field day.
As for the privacy issue: the teacher can’t complain, but the girls in the picture perhaps have a right to complain about him for posting the picture. Then again, everything goes onto the internet now as a matter of course, it seems, and they should have known it. They’re probably in deeper doo-doo now with xenophobic oppas etc than he is.
Any office girls (that is, salaried female office workers) I’ve seen out with their teams/bosses for office parties have looked a LOT less enthusiastic about it than the three ladies shown in the linked photo.
This is just typical of the male population wanting to protect their ‘pure’ and ‘untouched’ female population. The local women must be innocent and most certainly don’t have any libido because that would be dirty. Sleeping with a foreign man is nothing short of treason and effectively makes the woman untouchable from then on.
This attitude is well documented in many countries and is most prevalent in countries that have been occupied by a foreign military or have foreign military bases. In my country, women who were associated with U.S. military personnel, be it yesterday or 40 years ago, still bear a stigma and are called “yankee whores” behind their backs.
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/ww.....24038.html
following up to my earlier
I fail to see how having fun on your own time equals being a terrible teacher. If a teacher chooses to have sex with three women at the same time after a night of drinking at a nightclub on a Friday night, what does that have to do with the quality of their teaching on Monday morning?
Anyhow, the Korean government is not helping anything by lowering the already low standards for hiring of E2 visa teachers. Now it’s not even necessary to have a degree - all you need is a heartbeat and youthful looks.
I’ve seen a similar pose many times at my company (”The Number One company in Korea) dinners many times. The pose might be the similar, but the faces are primarily yellow with occasional appearances of white and even brown. The genders of the people vary as well (but this is not worth drawing any conclusions over). No one cares the next day. Anyway, based on the smile that I just saw on my boss’s face five minutes ago when he came to my desk to tell me that we’re having a company dinner party tonight to celebrate several members’ promotions, I think it’s best we don’t take our camera out tonight.
Sometimes I think we expats react with paranoia when we see stories like these, since most Koreans are smart enough to not get dragged into this. But other times I see 10,000 of the countries future adults holding candles and crying about 광우병 and I don’t know what to think.
Anyway, I think it’s about time to go celebrate…
the one girls face is under the others girls ass!!!!
this man needs to be recognized for an award not criticized by the insane netziens
improves it?
What about the “Two-Faced Lives of Koreans”???? Koreans are pressured to marry, then somehow find it acceptable to play with women in business clubs, fondle hired women and men in 노래방, and visit the pink streets. Also, there are lots of businesses catering to gay Koreans, who may or may not be married. So I really hate hearing about how two-faced foreigners are when Koreans have secret double lives as well. Wake up and look in the mirror, Korea.
Looks like a couple people posing for a shot they know is ridiculous. “When in Rome” only applies to Roman citizens.
So the Korean media wants to take a dig at foreigners. THIS is the best they can come up with. If I wanted to take at dig at Koreans in the West I could mention:
All the illegal immigrants,
All the sex workers,
Students plagarising to obtain degrees,
But I’m a nice person so I won’t.
I just want to know how the pictures from my firm’s MT got out.
The dude rocks. I recently stumbled on a photo of myself with three “Be the Reds”-clad chicas from 2002 in a similarly well-lubricated, exuberant pose. I wonder if the nutizens would like that one–the obvious patriotism angle might cause them to blow a gasket in contemplation of how to react.
Remember the days when you didn’t really know if someone was a foreigner unless you spoke to them or they told you they were.
Maybe soon part of the e2 visa will be the chastity clause
“Maybe soon part of the e2 visa will be the chastity clause”
My first employer told me that women were not, under any circumstances, allowed into my apartment.
I didn’t listen very well.
This is getting so old even the nutizens are bored with it. We need somebody to step up and do something worth mentioning.
Ok…not really.
Koreans want to hire more qualified English teachers who don’t raid and pilfer their women. Eunuchs perhaps?
Or heterosexual women. We prey on their menfolk but don’t usually pilfer them.
its rather stupid to call it a double life
or two-face because it doesnt apply to this at all
just some people out partying and it is similar to the girls from english spectrum who were also gladly posing for the camera that night in hongdae
because they were enjoying themselves
korean boys get over it and go buy a camera
LMB’s fault? It’s unbelievable how there are still people defending these POS here.
http://www.mongdori.com/forums/read.php?2,232
it’s interesting how the expat posse is quick to relieve their fellow expat of any responsibility for the situation unfolding. he posts racy pictures of himself and then gets up in the morning to go and teach children on how to become responsible adults. sorry, but he should have known better. he deserves what he gets.
now, to those who say what he does on his own time is his business, well, i agree. but you can’t expect korea to be that way when the premier democracy of the world ain’t that way either. you can lose your job here for things you do in your private life. indeed, a young professional lady i know lost here job just recently for having a liberal attitude towards drugs so stated on her myspace page. the co. that fired her said that that did not mesh with their values so they let her go.
you need to be careful what you put on the net under your own name. you need to be careful about the pictures you post and what you write.
don’t believe me? ask gerry. he knows all bout that, don’t ya, ger?
I told you Korean netizens were unhappy ceding the International Online Idiocy Cup to the Chinese last month. They want it back and they see a chance as China puts its nutizens back in their cages ahead of Aug, 8.
One wonders if, just perhaps, Korean guys tried to be a bit less gay than the guys on TV, acted a bit more chivalrous (look it up before commenting), and generally tried to elevate the women instead of treating them like so many “human resources… if they actually acted like they wanted the women themselves instead of being jealous @$$hats… One wonders if the problem might not just go away…
When you have ANY group of people in an oppressive situation, they are going to express themselves in any way they can… And if they are creatively and actively courted by waygooks, Korean women are going to prefer that to the guys who put ‘em in glass storefronts, barbershops, room salons, and who, after marriage, beat them, leave ‘em home alone, make ‘em work and do all of the housework, take their children in a divorce, and worse…
I mean, it’s not rocket science here folks…
‘Korean women are going to prefer that to the guys who put ‘em in glass storefronts, barbershops, room salons, and who, after marriage, beat them, leave ‘em home alone, make ‘em work and do all of the housework, take their children in a divorce, and worse…’
now let’s see how may expats call this bigot on his racism.
old story, the kids need a new angle
That guy sounds really terrible.
hey there pawi. its me. the one you talk about all the time.
JTB: play nice.
not all Korean men are like that. just enough to chase those sweet honeys into my arms.
and that’s enough for me.
If he did post those pictures himself, he does deserve flak since he is playing the role of teacher. Party all you want, but don’t advertise it.
But hey, we couldn’t call them nutizens if they were to emphasize the fact that he is a teacher instead of focusing on the fact that he’s a foreigner now, could we? Where’s the fun in that?
“Korean women are going to prefer that to the guys who put ‘em in glass storefronts, barbershops, room salons, and who, after marriage, beat them, leave ‘em home alone, make ‘em work and do all of the housework, take their children in a divorce, and worse…”
That’s a pretty fucked up assessment. Not surprising, considering the escalating waves of ‘fuck Korean males’ sentiment in this thread, but at least try to be somewhat reasonable? No? Not possible? Ugh…
“Granted, there are other issues at play here, but if a Korean elementary school teacher posted photos like that and netizens found them, it would also make the news — and probably bigger news outlets than Dailian.”
Excellent point. This has more to do with elevated standard of ‘morality’ on teachers who deal with kids rather than ‘what the fuck? that whitie just slept with OUR women!’ sentiment (not that the latter isn’t involved in this issue). And on that note, it really is a difference of culture - maybe some people hold teachers to higher standard than others.
I hold teachers to a higher standard in that I don’t think its appropriate to so blantantly act like a freakin cowboy when you’re supposed to be doing a (semi) serious job. Yeah, teachers can have fun just like everyone else, but sorry discretion is an important part of the job.
He didn’t know better? C’mon, has he been living in a cave? This is ROK v.2008. Assuming he posted the pictures himself, he’s either a completely doob or is trying to stir it up.
If he didn’t post the pictures himself, well who wants to talk conspiracy?
Criminy! If every black person in the U.S. took such offense any time anybody made a racist (or in this case just gereralizing and stupid) comment on the internet, their heads would explode!
Wherever you are, wherever you go, people will have a problem with what you are doing. Its the way of the world.
You can live your life in Korea basing your feelings on some stupid netziens, and assuming everybody is out to get you, or you can just live. Most people here like you- at least as much as back home where people aren’t always so kind either.
Fuck it, who cares?!?!
And yeah, J-t-b in texas is a tool that should not reproduce.
Happy. pawikirogi?
The more things change, the more they stay the same
As said, this is the biggest foreign teacher “scandal” the nutizens could come up with recently?
Maybe things are improving.
All this crap: focus on “low quality” English teachers, anti-American beef, anti-Americanism in general, etc. are all just smoke screens- used to cover the fact that schools and education need some serious reform, the economic sector is in danger and really needs some help, the “neo-yangban” politicians and business leaders don’t really care about the plight of the common people, there are many greater threats to public health and safety than mad cow disease, yadda, yadda, yadda, but it would take too much effort to do anything about those problems. It’s just better to parade these “boogeymen” myths in front of the people and they eat it up.
Yes, there are some who don’t buy into the crap, but they are usually too afraid to speak up for fear of attack from the no brain nuts.
Yes, this happens in other countries, too. Remember when George W. made such an issue out of gay marriage so people would concentrate on that and not the failings of his administration?
It’s a popular smoke screen tactic. Trouble is, too many numbskulls fall for it.
Yes,teachers are held to higher standards and we as teachers should be careful how we present ourselves in public.
However, I do not condone a witch hunt on this guy.
There was nothing illegal going on- no nudity, no sexual assault. The problems are with the assumptions of the nutizens who, with no proof, automatically believe that something sinister was going down in the context of this picture.
Korea has double standards, yes. Most here actually see nothing wrong with holding strong on hypocrisy where Korean men can go around like intoxicated cads about town while they demand that every male foreign teacher behave as if he were a eunuch.
It all comes down to the Ostrich Syndrome- if they don’t see it or don’t talk about it, it doesn’t exist. That’s how they can pretend that they have such high moral standards- BECAUSE THEY DON’T TALK ABOUT IT AND PRETEND THE ISSUE DOESN’T EXIST!
When they get “proof” in pictures like this that a foreigner is up to no good that is their evidence that we are of low moral character.
To the hypocrite, it’s not that they behave better in private, it’s just that they don’t talk about it and pretend it doesn’t happen.
Basically, that’s where the “when in Rome” comes in.
For us foreigners, when in Korea, don’t talk about it, pretend as if it doesn’t exist, and certainly don’t openly post what could be perceived as questionable pictures on the net.
I’m guessing that all of you with Myspace or Facebook accounts are setting your picture files to private. I certainly have!
I don’t think this qualifies as English, even by the low standards of Korea…
Hasn’t the waiguk guy/Hanguk girl been through the grinder since the first GI landed in Korea? Make it simple: Korean guys and girls want only their kind to eat Hanwu.
Some K-girls do like to try the imported stuff. We all know it’s diseased.
Whatever happen to Hines Ward and understanding of other cultures?
Here’s a real question about ex-pats in Korea: Why do we have a knee-jerk reaction when the ‘netizens’ rise up and bitch? Who cares? Here’s a country where a guy can whack his old lady late at night and 95% of the people will pretend not to see it. Who cares?
Has anybody been truly physically hurt by Koreans here on this forum ? Or is it the same oversensitive whine we ex-pats make when we feel our image is being dragged through the mud?
Here’s some reality: the majority of Koreans don’t trust us and are more-than-willing to believe the worst about you, the foreigner, in a blink of an eye. Not all Koreans…most. I can’t tell you how many guys at work think I’m having sex with a different girl every other day. I keep telling them that after I had caught syphilis for the fifth time, there’s no way I’m sluttin’ around.
maybe some people hold teachers to higher standard than others.
Maybe if Korea wants to hold the imported teaching help to a higher standard, it should be willing to pay for that higher standard.
Look at Dave’s Korea board, and the level of discourse there (”what’s your favourite color?” “How do I bag a K-girl?”). Then visit the International forums, particularly for the regions that demand, pay for and get higher qualifications. You will notice the difference.
Korea gets what it pays for.
In other news:
The BlackBerry is belatedly set to reach South Korea, which has so far kept out the mobile e-mail devices despite Koreans being among the world’s heaviest internet users.
SK Telecom, South Korea’s biggest mobile operator, said yesterday it had received government approval to offer BlackBerry services. Research in Motion’s BlackBerry devices have not been on the market here because of a regulation requiring handset applications to be based on wireless internet platform for interoperability (WIPI), a homegrown software platform.
“The government regards the BlackBerry as a device for processing work only, so it has allowed an exception in its WIPI rule,” said Mina Ryu, a spokeswoman for SK Telecom.
SK Telecom aims to start Blackberry services in August after testing its network services.
Ms Ryu said the exception reflected the new Korean government’s willingness to soften telecom regulations, which could allow foreign handset makers to tap domestic mobile phone users more aggressively.
The WIPI rule has protected domestic handset makers from foreign competition, analysts said, allowing Samsung Electronics and LG Electronics to dominate the local market.
Samsung is the biggest vendor in South Korea, controlling more than half the market. LG has a 25.9 per cent market share. Motorola is a minor competitor with less than 5 per cent. Nokia, the global market leader, does not sell its products in Korea because of the WIPI rule.
“Were it not for the rule, foreign companies could have penetrated the domestic market more actively. It has become a main stumbling block against their entry,” said a telecom analyst at a local brokerage.
Nokia is now in talks with SK Telecom to return to South Korea as the government is expected to ease the WIPI rule further. Nokia first entered the South Korean market in 2001 on an original design manufacturer basis but withdrew in 2003 due to sluggish sales.
Apple’s iPhone has also not been introduced to the Korean market because of the WIPI rule. Analysts say the Korean market is too small for global handset makers to make handsets tailored only for Korean customers.
Analysts said the introduction of BlackBerry services will help SK Telecom attract new customers as they see substantial demand from businessmen for the services. It will also allow foreign visitors to use their own BlackBerry devices here.
Korea has been considered a “telecom island” because foreign travellers cannot use their mobile phones due to network incompatibility. South Korea uses CDMA technology while most other countries use the GSM rival technology.
the netizen outrage might be a little over the top, but higher standards for teachers aren’t just a Korean thing.
In the US a couple of weeks ago, an education student was denied her degree, because of a pic labelled “drunken pirate” and it was just her drinking from a plastic cup and wearing a pirate hat.
Can’t post a link here, but it’s on the smoking gun website
Meanwhile, Korean men ARE STILL putting Korean women in glass storefronts, barbershops, room salons. They do, after marriage, beat them, leave ‘em home alone while they go out whoring, make ‘em work outside the home, make them responsible for all of the housework, take their children in the case of a divorce, and worse…
I could name names. These are not just “taxi drivers”, “farmers”, or the chronically unemployed. These whoremongers and worse are the guys who get the company car, the reserved parking spot at the office, and even higher.
Cream of the crop, so to speak.
And yet, the best pawi, the bum, and a few others can say is “[foreign] teachers need to be held to a higher standard” and I shouldn’t be allowed to pollute the gene…
So sorry. Maybe it’s really the Bush/Cheney/Halliburton who made the Koreans such misogynistic twits. Or maybe the waygook English teachers who build the brothels behind every bus and train station?
Yeah. Right.
People who keep nude women in glass storefronts shouldn’t throw stones…
… or try to defend illegitimi…
I’m afraid we’ll soon see a digital picture of a Blackberry cavorting with juicy girls and fresh netizen anger against that slight telecoms market opening.
I’m tempted to leak pictures of my very sexy wife and I in a drunken embrace in order to sue the reporters who jump to conclusions.
#57,
A couple of weeks ago?
The story is actually from April 2007.
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/a.....rate1.html
so I take it Korea is a country where you can’t get money or get laid? Not sure if that is very good marketing for any country.
You can get laid. Just don’t publish it by putting them up in the internet where your students may end up with the pictures. Koreans debauch too, but if they get caught on pictures, the consequences are the same netizen fury.
Physically harmed? Yes, actually, I was.
During the last ‘English Rectum’ scandal, those of you not FOB will remember, there were stronger, more aggravated sentiments whipped up by the Korean media against teachers and foreigners in general. During the peak of this period, I was physically assaulted on the street in Hongdae. Granted, there have always been fisticuffs in this area, even racially motivated ones, but I am a quiet, mild mannered type who has avoided trouble of any stripe for the last 13 years, and here I was attacked while basically minding my own business. Who to blame? Draw your own conclusions, but I blame the inflammatory videos, not the nutjobs who watch them. At this same time, there were calls by the nutizens to meet in Hongdae and seek out foreigners for drubbings, but to the best of my knowledge these ‘flash mobs’ failed to materialize. But there was still enough resident hostility seething in the random Korean to have led to my attack, I feel.
I guess my point is rather ‘unpointed’, but my personal feeling is that there is a continuum of racial violence, and though history and the media point to incidents as important indicators, there is at all times a fluctuating meter of hatred of the ‘other’ or ‘alien’ in all societies.
“And yet, the best pawi, the bum, and a few others can say is “[foreign] teachers need to be held to a higher standard” and I shouldn’t be allowed to pollute the gene…”
Really? You really think I was saying FOREIGN teachers need to be held to a higher standard, when clearly the insinuation was that the primary reason for netizen uproar was because of the local’s high ‘moral’ expectations of the educators? What a tool…
Phew! Nervous moment there reading the headline.
원어민 강사 = foreign teachers. This is indeed (yawn) another foreigner issue, but is there no way to get would-be teachers in Korea on the same page on ALL of the special circumstances they could find (or put) themselves in there?
I don’t get it. Anyone can scream that they wanna post any picture they want on the internet and not receive the condemnation of society until they are blue in the face. The rules don’t change. You’ll still get nailed for it (whether it’s fair or not). Yeah the world’s not fair and water is wet. And the “rules” are a little different in Korea. Adjust, adapt, get over it, move on, etc.
I don’t see how Koreans have to change their expectations of how a teacher should behave just so some 20-something can post pictures on the internet to brag to his friends back home.
Those little snot noses call you “ABC Name Teacher” for a reason. At least try to give the impression that you are living up to it.
#64 bum, you know there is no outrage over crimes against women by KOREAN men in Korea. There’s little enough outrage against Korean men (including teachers and government officials) who rape children.
The outrage expressed here is over a waygook who got Korean women to pose for a goofy photo with him. And it’s entirely racist and hypocritical.
“I’m shocked! Shocked! to find out gambling is going on in here” was the line from the movie Casablanca.
Korean women are exploited by the thousands (or more) in brothels all across Korea (and elsewhere). They are forced to do humiliating acts by businessmen, teachers, and others. And yet the “netizens” are wound around the axle by a handful of foreigners.
You call me a “tool” while you defend the glasshouses and the spousal abuse by claiming falsely that there’s a higher moral standard in Korea.
Right… And I can get you a great price on the Brooklyn Bridge…
The thing is that who criticize these American/Canadian morons in Korea is also against these kind of crimes committed by Koreans, nightclubs, whorehouse, bars etc… Talk about typical excuse of honkies.
“They are forced to do humiliating acts by businessmen, teachers, and others. ”
Most women are not forced. Most women do it to make some quick money. It’s just another option opened to them which they choose to take. If a bunch of Korean teachers belonging to KTU posted pictures of themselves having ‘a good time’ with room salon girls on the web, the reactions are going to be similar - internet disgust mixed in with double morality/hypocrisy, living in glass house, etc etc. The difference between Korean teachers and foreign teachers are that Korean teachers know what will happen if they don’t practice discretions.
Just don’t put up pictures of yourself with oodles of girly fun. In the West, it’s no big deal. In Korea, it’s not generally looked upon favorably. Maybe in a decade or two this might change, with Korean culture evolving to look more closer to the Western culture.
jtb-in-texas, how do you know there is no outrage over crimes against women by Korean men in Korea? I see articles all the time about Vietnamese women wed to Korean farmers needing more support from the government in the Korean press. That’s just an example.
I object to the photo not because it makes the expat looks bad (this reputation is well deserved), but because it makes Korean women look like desperate groupies of white males.
BTW, there’s few things worse than a patronizing, imposing, dividing prick. I’d rather hear about feminist issues from women living in Korea, as opposed to some guy with a pic of Ronald Reagan as his avatar.
If that were a Korean male with Korean women, no problem. If it were a Korean male with white women, no problem. If it were a white man with white women, no problem.
From the perspective of a teacher who formerly taught in Canada, I would never have posted such a picture of myself (or one of me smoking a joint, dropping my pants, doing a beer bong, etc.) regardless of whether it happened to have been taken on the weekend, two years earlier, etc. It may not be fair, but people who happen to see it - principals, coworkers, students, parents, etc - are likely to come away with a changed opinion about you, regardless of the context surrounding the picture. I reckon that most Korean and foreign teachers have some appreciation for this, though some of the latter may be too young, naive and/or foolish to grasp it as well as others.
To be fair, as long as you are not a total idiot - and ideally if there are other teachers present - in Korea you can drink among university students, many of whom might be your own students. In fact, sometimes it is encouraged. In contrast, I remember walking into an Irish pub in Canada one evening with another teacher, seeing a few students - drinking underage - from the school we worked at, and deciding it best to turn around and get a beer somewhere else. Not worth the hassle of hearing, “Hey, weren’t you getting drunk in Maguire’s last night?” in the hallway.
And, screw what Korean netizens think about this. These “stories” don’t seem to attract the attention they once did, and I’m sure this one will be forgotten shortly.
Rambutan 58: best comment.
“while you defend the glasshouses and the spousal abuse by claiming falsely that there’s a higher moral standard in Korea.”
*bangs head against a wall* Higher. Moral. EXPECTATIONS. FOR. TEACHERS. Are you reading at a fourth grade level?
“you know there is no outrage over crimes against women by KOREAN men in Korea. There’s little enough outrage against Korean men (including teachers and government officials) who rape children.”
Are you kidding me? First of all, it’s not even about gender at the moment, it’s about the profession as an educator. Second of all, if a Korean male teacher had a photo like that one above going around the net, he would have been severely scrutinized if not sacked immediately before you can even say “PTA”.
I’d pay money to observe jtb and baduk smoking pot together.
It’s all about Korean men (from Korea) and their insecurities. Nothing more, nothing less.
How do we know this wasn’t some joke anyway?
I’ve heard dozens of times from Koreans that English teachers aren’t REAL TEACHERS. Which is it? Are we only “real teachers” or not? You can’t have both ways.
Not being “real teachers” means foreign English teachers can not be held to the same room salon, massage palor visiting Korean teacher standards. Believe me, Korean teachers do go to room salons.
Sorry Bum, but they do. About 5 years ago, I was invited by my KOREAN teacher friend to go to a room salon with him. His friend managed one whatever that meant. It was all “top secret” though.
The insecure Korean men should know that we foreign men are here to stay. Just like you’re in other peoples countries.
Get over your insecurities and move on with your life. There is nothing you can do about it and I laugh in your faces. You make TV shows about dating foreign women after all. Tit for tat.
The Korean bloodlines are being dilluted and this can’t be stopped. It’s too late.
You think you have the right to go to other peoples and do whatever you want, so stop being hypocrites when foreigners come here and expect the same thing.
“the local’s high ‘moral’ expectations of the educators”
Sorry, but when you’ve got popular sitcoms and movies that revolve around a male teacher and one of his high school students hooking up, I find that argument pretty weak.
@81 “It’s all about Korean men (from Korea) and their insecurities. Nothing more, nothing less.”
and the comically-hung guy from #75
“It’s all about Korean men (from Korea) and their insecurities. Nothing more, nothing less.”
Reading some of the netizen comments, I had the impression that at least half the criticisms came from Korean women themselves.
@cm tell them to line up if they want to be in the next photo
Only made it down to around comment #50
Is #22 and 23 true?
Has Korean society changed that much since I left?
I had to honestly go back and look at the picture again when I got down to that comment.
If some 20 or 30 something year old elementary school teacher posted a photo of himself exactly like that, he’d become newsworthy to the Chosun Ilbo and so on?
I have to believe if I could someone how scout the Korean net for images of school teachers in that age group (and into their 40s), I could find some images worse than that.
I’m teaching in US public schools now, and if I heard of an elementary school teacher in the US getting in trouble for that picture posted on his facebook account, I’d have to start thinking maybe it was due to the fact the women were Asian — because I can’t see how that photo on that linked-to page is disturbing.
And judging by comments over the years on the expat K-blogsphere concerning juicy girls and room salons and other things, I’m somewhat of a prude by even expat standards.
Are you kidding me? First of all, it’s not even about gender at the moment, it’s about the profession as an educator. Second of all, if a Korean male teacher had a photo like that one above going around the net, he would have been severely scrutinized if not sacked immediately before you can even say “PTA”.
Agreed. The poor guy gets what he deserves…maybe. I don’t think anybody really knows the source of the photo. If he posted it a great big hearty heart felt “HA ha” (a la Nelson) to him. On the other hand, he may have had nothing to do with the posting of the image. I don’t care enough to find out though.
If there were indeed ‘higher moral standards’ for teachers here, then the KTU would have been ripped apart a long time ago. And yeah…I see teachers as having a moral obligation to leave politics and ideology out of the lesson plan. But that is another issue.
Well, after reading up a little and seeing this at comment #82:
“Sorry Bum, but they do. About 5 years ago, I was invited by my KOREAN teacher friend to go to a room salon with him. His friend managed one whatever that meant. It was all “top secret” though.”
I’m not so sure there is a mega different standard for Korean male teachers and the rest of the population.
I taught a fair number of teachers (male and female) over the years in Korea, and I knew Korean teachers were looked up to, but judging by conversations with them, and times as a group in the frequent hakwon-nighttime-socialization trips out, and on seeing and hearing about the typical Korean male night on the town, I’d still be surprised to know Korean male teachers would be page 8 news in the Chosun Ilbo over an image like that.
“Believe me, Korean teachers do go to room salons.
Sorry Bum, but they do. About 5 years ago, I was invited by my KOREAN teacher friend to go to a room salon with him. His friend managed one whatever that meant. It was all “top secret” though.”
Dude, I didn’t say Korean teachers didn’t get laid at local room salons. Regardless of how they act, teachers in Korea are held to a high standard of morality. A teacher undergoes a serious level of criticism when he or she is seen doing something ‘morally questionable’. And emphasis on the quotation mark.
It’s like U.S. politicians. Regardless of how mayors, governors, senators, and presidents act in real life, people still hold them to high standard of morality, yes? Why would people give a fuck about Bill and Eliot if politicians aren’t HELD to a higher standard of ‘morality’?
Same idea here. When teachers in Korea are witnessed acting ‘immorally’ under the judgment of the society, they’re criticized astonishingly harsh, regardless of domestic/foreign. I’m sure “Whitie banging our women” factor is included, but it’s not the principal motivator.
“Agreed. The poor guy gets what he deserves…maybe.”
Eh… I don’t want to judge on this issue (not when I live in close proximity to downtown Tempe ;-)) . I was just commenting on the motivation behind the netizen reaction.
“I’m not so sure there is a mega different standard for Korean male teachers and the rest of the population.”
Should be “not so sure there isn’t”
why awaiting moderation?
hehe I should clarify too I guess.
By getting what he deserves I meant that if you stick a bleeding hand in a tank full of piranhas, you should not be too shocked if they attack.
I meant no judgment on whether it is socially acceptable for a teacher to try and get laid
that’s a pretty benign pic of a few people hamming it up. whether this guy is a teacher or not doesn’t even factor into the equation. i recommend further research to find naughtier pics.
Bigger than The Beatles
http://img.photobucket.com/alb.....rather.jpg
“if a Korean male teacher had a photo like that one above going around the net, he would have been severely scrutinized if not sacked immediately before you can even say “PTA”.”
Bull. Korean teachers have been caught molesting their own underage students and have only been transferred to different schools. So, it’s immoral for a white guy to dance in a nightclub with Korean girls? Your attitude sounds like Berlin in the 1930’s.
“Korean teachers have been caught molesting their own underage students and have only been transferred to different schools.”
Only? Do you know how much movers cost in Korea?
love it. in fact, i’d throw in a few dollars to have postcards printed and distributed for free. it could be andre the giant’s posse for today’s generation.
Do you think it’s appropriate for a woman to wear a dress like this in a traditonal Korean courtyard? I don’t know…maybe she should be arrested?
http://img.photobucket.com/alb...../WP8W5.jpg
Oh, Oh, I made a big mistake
http://img.photobucket.com/alb.....hool-1.jpg
“Bull. Korean teachers have been caught molesting their own underage students and have only been transferred to different schools.”
And how did you find out about that, MrMao? Your crime-fighting psychic ability, or the media reporting on it along with public outrage? You do realize my point isn’t that Korean teachers are saints, but that teachers in Korea are held to a high ‘moral’ standard, REGARDLESS of the reality?
I’ll use U.S. politician analogy again.
Do some governors fuck prostitutes? Yes.
Do they get away with it? Sometimes.
Does that mean Americans don’t hold politicians to a high standard of ‘morality’? Absolutely not.
“So, it’s immoral for a white guy to dance in a nightclub with Korean girls? Your attitude sounds like Berlin in the 1930’s.”
Apparently so, according to the local standards. Notice that I always quote the word morality, indicating that I do not necessarily view what the teacher in this case did as ‘immoral’. In fact, comment #88 states that blatantly… at least to people who understands English language or have the half the patience to actually try to understand what people are saying. But I guess I’m out of luck in that department here.
By your logic, why would the latter not be well deserved either? One coud easily argue that many are by simply makinng a trip to Itaewon or Hongdae. It would make more sense to argue that both are deserved or neither deserved.
On that point, reputations turn into stereotypes, and stereotypes foster prejudice, which in turn leads to discrimination. So neither should be deserved. I am pissed at whoever posted this picture online (there is the possibility a freind took the picture and posted it) because it perpetuates both stereotypes. Neither of which I enjoy being associated with me or my wife.
“I’m sure “Whitie banging our women” factor is included, but it’s not the principal motivator.”
Even if it wasn’t the prime motivator, the fact that it is a motivator invalidates any and all other arguments.
PS. It obviously is the prime motivator. Just look at the picture carefully. Do you see a bottle of alcohol? How can you be certain that they were drunk? They seem to be dressed fairly conservatively. How can you be certain that anything sexual was going on? What if it did? Aren’t they adults?
Oh, and using what goes on in the US as a yardstick for what is acceptable? Come on. Everybody in their right mind knows that’s a mistake.
‘Even if it wasn’t the prime motivator, the fact that it is a motivator invalidates any and all other arguments.’
to whom? you and a bunch of expats? lol!