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Open Thread #49
This entry was written by Robert Koehler, posted on May 10, 2008 at 4:53 am, filed under Open Thread. Bookmark the permalink. Follow any comments here with the RSS feed for this post.
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152 Comments
First!
Rob, what are you doing awake at 4:53 am?
Heard a great line on Burma today from a doctor who works on human rights and health issues in that country. Prior to the cyclone, he said, democracy activists in Rangoon were painting pro-democracy slogans on the many stray dogs in that city, then sitting back and laughing as regime soldiers had to chase those dogs around.
Ja, shouldn’t you be sleeping dude?
I’m in USA, Pacific Coast, so it was 12:53 pm.
The army must ration bullets. That’s a good sign.
Koehler’s friend from space Ms. Lee has disappeared.. Anybody noticed that yet??
5:25 train trip into the countryside, that’s why I was up at 4:53.
Jay h — again, it’s not KOEHLER’S friend from space who has disappeared. She’s another poster’s friend.
PS: Has the switch to sans-serif fonts improved readability at all?
#7 - Quite the opposite, I think; I find serif fonts to be much more readable for body text.
What do you mean she has disappeared? Is this serious? Was she under surveillance? I always feel so naive.
Looks like the KTU is up to it again . It seems as though they will counter any information about US beef with their own information about the dangers. Given the past history of the KTU, I am sure that they will not be too concerned with facts.
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/ww.....23917.html
I like serifs. And beef. Rare beef. Bleeding, mooing, dripping red all over your plate still smells like a beating heart bite into it and its life juices swirl around your tongue rare beef. Yuk hoi - a little dry, a little chilled, but I like it, too. And serif fonts. Bloody, dripping serif fonts…excuse me a minute. I’m getting excited…
Beef, serifs and a big black mustache for us traditionalists.
Gotta line up firmly with the serif crowd. As for the rest of the menu, when it comes to protein I’m more partial to seafood, pork, chicken, or tubu than beef… but I would certainly eat it in preference to my ‘taboo’ meats: whale, raccoon, and of course monkey.
So far, 2008 has been the best year I’ve had for bass fishing here in Korea. Those of you that like to fish but don’t go for whatever reason, you don’t know what you’re missing.
They’re probably too busy watching anime.
First thing I noticed today. Good job!
hi - how do we get listed here: we have several blogs and my personal blogs also:
518 folkschool blog
http://twurl.nl/jbpmuy
518solidarity blog
http://twurl.nl/6uurpq
and my personal blog - now mostly Korea stuff:
http://peterahon.blogspot.com
This is a rather odd newspaper article. Interesting comments at the end of it too.
http://thedaily.washington.edu.....uth-korea/
#7 Whatever.. The Koehler group-think group then..
I’m already on record as calling on my fellow country(wo)men to eat more opossum — and I redouble my entreaty in these troubled times.
medical dishes in bed for help
@18:
Just don’t eat the brains. An outbreak of vCJC in Kentucky was attributed to eating squirrel brains.
“Just don’t eat the brains. An outbreak of vCJC in Kentucky was attributed to eating squirrel brains.”
That’s what the community of backwoods cannibals wants yout to believe.
Old Southern Indiana joke:
Question: “What’s a seven course dinner in Kentucky?
Answer: “Fried possum and a sixpack.”
But seriously, Slim, have you ever actually eaten possum (or even smelled it cooking)?? Not what I would call a gourmet meat.
And Nomad, do you ever actually eat any of those bass you catch so prolifically? I never found a decent way to cook the things… maybe you could share a recipe or two? Or are you just out to give fish a bad day?
Like there’s a difference between southern Indiana and Kentucky. Bloomington is a nice college town, though, and the forested hills are a pretty contrast to the monotonous, flat stretches of soy and cornfields. Going to and from visiting family in Michigan, I would greatly exceed Indiana’s ridiculous 65 mph speed limit to get through that vast ecological prison of Monsanto monoculture as quickly as possible. At least those Hoosiers finally had the good sense to get rid of one of their three time zones.
ANGER FOOD for your average expat:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05.....inspa.html
What’s this week’s theme to your anti-american rant pawi? When are you coming to the motherland to teach your juniors in the country side for the benefit of the nation?
Sonagi,
“Like there’s a difference between Southern Indiana and Kentucky.”
Yes, that’s the point! Southern Indiana (and Indianapolis) is filled with people who themselves, or their parents, migrated north from Kentucky a generation or two back… they either didn’t make it as far north as Detroit or Chicago, or their luck didn’t pan out there, and they headed back south but didn’t quite make it across the Ohio River. So making Kentucky the butt of jokes (and there are plenty of them) is a very personal two-edged sword.
i think when you put a link in your post, it’s held up, so let me tell you that the nyt has yet another article on korean style saunas. it’s in the health section. many of yooz expats will be very angry since the article gushes about them. maybe samsung is paying them? lol!
uh you do know most people outside the American borders are anti-American?
@28: this from the genius whose mantra is still, “Americans eat bread; Koreans eat rice”.
STFU already, you dumbass.
@27: the only thing wrong with Korean saunas in the U.S. is their extortionate pricing.
I don’t know if you’re from the Hoosier state, Bad Monkey, but I was hoping you wouldn’t take offense to my description. It’s not like my home state of Michigan has any livable cities although it does have great beaches and pristine forests in the northern part of state.
#27,
Bah, it’s a fluff piece.
Reporters can’t always go undercover in sweatshops and massage parlors, can they?
Sonagi,
Rest assured I take no offense whatever! And further, I am definitely not a Hoosier, although in a long ago previous lifetime I did spend two years at IU in Bloomington. As a child I was often ‘farmed out’ to relatives in Michigan, both southern and northern. So I know both states to some extent, but I have no ’state identification’ with either place. (The places I have lived by the far the longest in my wandering life are Kyoto, Japan, and the Pacific NW- Oregon, Idaho, Washington, and British Columbia). And besides, you dear Sonagi are probably my favorite commentator at the Marmot’s Hole and it would take quite a lot deliberate nastiness (or at least your promotion of monkey meat consumption) for you to offend me.
American beef thing will be over soon.
It is similar to sex. When you never had one, then you think it is dirty. And, you have over-blown worries about VD.
But as soon as you had some, you never bad-mouth sex.
Ditto about American beef.
‘@27: the only thing wrong with Korean saunas in the U.S. is their extortionate pricing.’
at 35 dollars to enter? the price seems cheap to me.
Most demonstrators against American beef are actually Highschool students and Junior High students. They were incited by their Commie teachers to oppose anything American.
They were told that opposing America is patriotic and bring the unification between two Koreas. A historic Commie argument!
What it will bring is a war between the South and the North Korea. Two Koreas are against each other because of ideology, one pushing Communism(at this age and time!) and the other maintaing free Democracy.
Many Commies have intentionally became high school teachers to spread their ideology. Their brand of patriotism.
LMB is just pushing his “Open market economy” stance through these ignorant people who would rather pay ten times the international rate for beef just because the cows are grown in Korea.
This has historically precedence as well. When Park ChengHee accepted the Reparation money from Japan, all students and Commies were dead set against it. But, when President Park asked them “should we not accept it?”. They said, “we should get more money”or “no amount of money is enough”. Knowing that, Japan would never give more, Park ignored these puppies and accepted the money. With that money, Park built Fertilizer factory and Pohang Iron. These two industrial machineries started the Miracle of Han River.
LMB will build his waterway through Korea as well. Just as President Park built Seoul-Busan freeway, much to the benefit of Korea.
@34: Not compared to the prices charged by Korean saunas _in Korea_ with equivalent (and often superior) facilities, which rarely, if ever, rise above $10.
Worries about VD are not overblown in the US. Twenty-five percent of teenage girls are infected with a curable STD (think about that, guys, when you’re ogling some underdressed Miley Cyrus lookalike while standing in line at the Metroplex). Globally, East Asia has the lowest adult infection rates while sub-Sahara Africa has the highest. Condoms do not protect against some STDs like genital warts. Lifelong monogamy or serial monogamy spaced out with periods of abstinence is best.
I think baduk counts on God’s benevolence to protect his genitals from warts.
Lifelong monogamy=”never got one”
serial monogamy spaced out with periods of abstinence=”seldom got one”
Shouldn’t you say “forced abstinence”?
I agree with you, SonAgi. Western society should learn how to curb one’s sexual urges. Koreans, with their Confusius teachings, are said to be the best when it comes to controlling their dicks.
I personally would not have an intercourse with a member of the opposite sex unless it is allowed by the Heavenly Father. I am a Christian.
I don’t get much. But that is OK. I don’t want to be a playboy who go for any girl like a dog or a horse.
Called it!
I just finished uploading another 100+ photos that my brother took while he was in Korea in 1966 if anyone is interested. The are at the end of the batch…..
http://www.flickr.com/photos/6.....531034869/
In Korean society, many business transactions such as contract signing, deciding requirements and terms, payment and other important dealings are concluded in “drinking houses” where women flogged to sell their bodies.
It is so natural for men to get drunk and, without them knowing or half-concious, sleep with these prostitutes. Some men brag about it afterwards.
And, Korean men in general are so ignorant about VD. Some, I am sure, are carrying VD for decades. Not even knowing that it is a VD.
Talking about sexual experiences in Korea is exactly the sort of thing that causes scandals and more visa regulations, so I’ll tread softly here. In the experience of, um, this guy I know, who is a horrible person and in no way representative of all chaste and blameless expats, Korean women have a frighteningly apathetic attitude towards safe sex. And as this guy I know says, nothing makes him want to use a condom more than a woman who doesn’t care if he uses a condom.
“Koreans, with their Confusius teachings, are said to be the best when it comes to controlling their dicks.”
Said by whom? By an NGO who tracks this kind of stuff, a neutral third party with no vested interest in making such a claim, or by Koreans themselves, who could be said to have a kind of biased and interested purpose in promoting such a claim?
“I went to Amsterdam to try the prostitutes. I’m a Christian, but I don’t think that’s wrong. It’s safe and clean there.”
-adult male Korean during my level-test interview — within five minutes of meeting him for the first time in my life.
That’s not to say ALL Koreans are like him, but neither are all Koreans like you. Be careful about universalizing personal experience, Baduk.
43 Granfallon: paraphrased from an article on Collegehumor.com:
“It’s ironic that when you’re with a girl who insists on using a condom, you probably don’t need one, while when you’re with a girl who doesn’t care, you should probably use two.”
re: saunas: the thing I missed the most when I returned to Canada for seven months. Definitely.
“Condoms do not protect against some STDs like genital warts.”
HPV, which is very common and potentially deadly, is one of them.
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ld.....62701.html
“I went to Amsterdam to try the prostitutes. I’m a Christian, but I don’t think that’s wrong. It’s safe and clean there.”
That is a denial. This guy mentioned it to you because he is deeply ashamed of himself. The fact that he saw a prostitute.
Koreans are brought up to think sex is dirty. Very similar to Western Christians. Even in married couples, mentioning anything about sex is a taboo.
You expats see a very limited subset of Korean society. You live and contact ghetto-Koreans, most of time. Real Koreans are much different.
I am one.
That’s the self-sealing fallacy, also known as the “no true scotsman” fallacy, Baduk.
more here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman
When I lived in Korea, I didn’t have contact mostly with “ghetto Koreans”, but with ordinary office workers, managers, businessmen, etc. I can’t say they were any more moral than your average similarly-situated American.
You say you are a “real Korean”? What year did you last live in Korea, baduk?
#48: He didn’t seem ashamed to me. . . do you know him? Cause I was there. You sorta weren’t.
You’re using the self-sealing fallacy, also known as the “no true scotsman” fallacy, Baduk. (look it up on Wikipedia - search “No True Scotsman” — they won’t let me put the link up here.)
it goes like this:
Angus: “No Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge.”
Brenda: “My uncle’s Scottish, and he puts sugar on his porridge.”
Angus: “No TRUE Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge.”
– Angus changes his argument after Brenda provides evidence that he is incorrect, by excluding the group Brenda mentions in order to maintain his claim. Creating an new group of “Ghetto Koreans” where you can arbitrarily relegate anyone who doesn’t fit your image of Koreans is a way of ignoring uncomfortable realities; it’s convenient, but not helpful in getting an actual grasp on how things are, and the fact that Korean men aren’t much better or worse than men of any other country at keeping their dongs where they belong.
It’s the same way Pawi and I once had words, because he said, “Every male expat is just here for Korean tail”
I answered: “Here. read my blog and see for yourself all the reasons I’m here.”
and he wrote it off, saying “well, you’re obviously the exception to the rule”
Puttng on blinders helps one maintain one’s preconceptions, but it does not help one gain a full grasp of reality.
That’s all I have to say about that. Now I’m gonna go play outside, because it’s a beautiful day!
Have a good one Baduk, and everyone else, too!
How is it possible for you to realize that KTUnion is a commie organization, while failing to realize that the NEAssociation is also a commie organization?
Both are shameful organizations, where adults manipulate the minds of impressionable children to suit their liberal ideals.
From the NYT piece — I got a chuckle out of this line:
As opposed to in Korea, where it’s a typical Friday night after work, I suppose.
i was over at rottentomatoes and came across a review of the sk flick called ‘the host’. i did not read the review but decided to skip to the actual page that dealt with said movie. this mediocre film got a whopping 95% on the combined critic’s scale. i just don’t understand what these people are seeing but what i saw was a bore. having said that, i’ve decided to watch again because some korean films actually become much better when you watch them a second time. wish me luck.
for those looking for a pretty good korean flick, it would be hard to go wrong with a movie called ‘궁녀’ (koong nyoh). it’s a decent mystery movie set in the chosun dynasty. the ghost angle was a bit confusing but that line is kept to the sides. highly recommned it.
also, there is a fantastic sword play movie you may have never heard about called ’sword and moon’ (청풍명월). high quaity flick with some great action scenes and good stroyline. highly recommend it.
# 54 Pawi
Are you for real? Most folks whom have been here for any length of time are well aware of “The Host.” But for you, below is the movie review…
http://bventertainment.go.com/.....c=the+host
The movie starts with an Anti-American scene which is probably why it did so well at the Korean box office. The token American Actor in the movie was later deported for working illegally with the movie making company. Korea, Sparkling!
i think you need to read my post again. could you show me where i implied the expat was unaware of this movie?
btw, both americans were token. can i ask how you feel about negative portrayals of koreans in american cinema? yeah, i know; strawman, right? yeah, right!
“Koreans, with their Confusius (sic) teachings, are said to be the best when it comes to controlling their dicks.”
I guess that explains the multitude of love motels, dodgy saunas, barber shops, hostess bars, and room salons - all within 500 yards of my place in the suburbs - frequented by Korean men seven nights/week. That’s some control going on there, ain’t it?
“Koreans are brought up to think sex is dirty. Very similar to Western Christians. Even in married couples, mentioning anything about sex is a taboo.”
Wrong, the last sentence in particular. You are out of touch with reality on that one. Korea has moved on without you.
“You expats see a very limited subset of Korean society. You live and contact ghetto-Koreans, most of time.”
Wrong again. The majority of the people who work at and attend my university, my wife and her family, etc. are hardly what I’d call “ghetto-Koreans.” I suspect this is the case with most of the “expats” who post here. (Most of whom, I might add, probably have more experience living in late-20th century/early 21st century Korea than you do.) But thanks anyway for suggesting, without an basis whatsoever, that our Korean coworkers, students, friends, and families are “ghetto.”
“Real Koreans are much different.
I am one.”
If you believe so, fine. More than a few Koreans might beg to differ.
#34: “with equivalent (and often superior) facilities, which rarely, if ever, rise above $10.”
Inspa looks very nice. None of my neighborhood spas came close in Seoul. Can you recommend a Seoul spa or two that are equivalent or better than the one in the NYT fluff piece?
“Both are shameful organizations, where adults manipulate the minds of impressionable children to suit their liberal ideals.”
Oh, please. You need to tell you cable TV provider to cancel your subscription to Fox News.
“this mediocre film got a whopping 95% on the combined critic’s scale.”
That doesn’t mean that the reviewers think it’s the new ‘Citizen Kane’. It just means 95% of them gave it a passing grade.
“Even in married couples, mentioning anything about sex is a taboo.”
I think you spent too much time in the sun today.
It’s kind of racy on this thread today…good!
I’ve found that the factor which causes the greatest variance in sexual attitudes between Koreans its their exposure to “Western” influnces. For example, it is quite common for Korean young men to date a traditional Korean girl for a long time before having sex with her. I have known quite a few Korean young men who have dated thier girlfriends for YEARS before sleeping with them. Unless you are bent on the religious side, this doesn’t happen in the States. The Korean women who date expats tend to be a heck of a lot “looser” that the regular Korean girl, to a degree that I would consider on par with the average Western gal.
I grew up in the States and lived in four countries. It is not uncommon for young people in the States to have almost completely random sexual encounters. The dance clubs in Korea are almost completely segregated with guys on one side and girls on the other! No one is “getting laid” in Korea with the frequency that occurs in Europe and the States. The absolutely bizzare thing to me, is the complete contradiction in a sexually repressed (not inserting a value judgement here…perhaps repressed is better, perhaps not) country like Korea, you can hve such traditional attitudes and then see glass whore houses lining the streets next to police stations! It blows your mind! In Europe the sexual attitudes are more pase, giving lenenicy to both casual relations and paid for services, whereas prostitution is not socially accepted (by most) in the States.
So I pose some questions for the audience, will the prevalence of paid for services in all their forms decrease in Korea as Korean women adopt more western sexual views?
@52: Wooriland, near 석계역, in Seoul, for one.
Your neighborhood saunas probably charge 3-5,000 won.
Griego, you make me laugh nearly as much as baduk does.
Griego is correct. People I know do not sleep around. Even with their girl friends.
And for gidiot’s comment,
love motels: These are actually frequented by married couples. Why? In Korean household, there are grandparents, relatives and children living in the same house. Married couples are worried their “love making” sound may be heard by any one of them. So,they refrain from love-making. Sick. But that is the situation. So, they planned to have a sex like two weeks in advance. And, book the love motel secretly. They are so embarrassed if any one of their family member find out about this.
dodgy saunas: Have seen a kind of azummas hang around in saunas? I wouldn’t even if they pay me.
barber shops: Some old geezers get their dong messaged by country chickens. So what? Very few barber shops actually do these sex services, anyway. Most barber shops are just barber shops.
hostess bars and room salons: Here you have something. These are frequented by businessmen and they do engage in sexual acts occassionally. But not all. Some are there just drink and conduct business. A few stay afterwards to buy “young chicken”. I would say the percentage is about 30 percent.
I have never been to one but many men just oggle at the girls and drink. And, go home. Only one out of three actually engage in live sex acts.
There are many peep-show places and love hotels in Washington DC right next to some government buildings. But, you will be wrong to assume that people working in these buildings frequent call-girl hotels.
The same is true where you are at. Less than 20% of Koreans have “free-sex” attitude. Less than 20%, compared to about 60% in the West.
Koreans are still Koreans. You guys keep referring to ghetto-Koreans you meet as the average Koreans.
Get out of your small pond.
Entire Confucian teaching is about the importance of country and family.
Sex, especially wrong kind, destroys family and even a country. So, he said “abstain from sex, even legitimate ones” and “Be asexual”.
Even “Sex is a bestial act”.
Korean culture still follows Confucian teaching very much. Real Koreans do.
Korean men who date girls usually have sex with them. It’s called “wonjo gyojae.” It is much more common for Korean young men to date Korean young women. Even my Hispanic first graders were able to clarify the distinction between women and girls the other day in class. Adult friends and acquaintances may address each other as “hey, girl!” or “you boys,” but using the word “girl” to identify young women is outdated, and talking about men dating girls doesn’t sound good.
Interesting that you switch to the term “women” when describing the “looser” sexual behavior of Korean women who date Western men. Does a girl become a woman after having sex?
Baduk, you are cracking me up!
Korea is a place where ignorance is understood as its own brand of wisdom.
The laughs keep coming. You and I exist because our parents were not asexual. Some organisms are able to reproduce without sex. Human beings are not one of them. Without sex, there’d be no families.
Sonagi,
“Be asexual” means “Pretend to be asexual”
Sort of downplay sex.
As you pointed out, if a group of people becomes asexual, they will be extinct.
Korean men are taught to behave like “non-sexual creature” during most of their lives and become sexual only when they are allowed by their parents and society.
Well, that would certainly explain the rampant buggery in the Korean military.
I could completely understand the argument for Korea’s sexual repression if it led to the benefit of society. What I completely do not understand is how country can have two parallel lines sexual “universes” that operate along side each other but seemingly don’t intersect.
For example, a young Korean guy will date a Korean girl for years, not sleep with her, endure tons of familial expectations (from her side),and put up with the frigidity of not getting laid in the best years of his life. After he exhausts his youth in this blue balls inducing gauntlet, he then gets married and bangs whores at every business occasion with his sujungeem at hostess bars and karaoke joints! In the States we tend to sow our wild oats early, perhaps end up with a kid out of wedlock or a scratch that won’t go away, but eventually settle into monogamy. In Korea, it is the other way around.
Dogbert…what’s so funny?
‘That doesn’t mean that the reviewers think it’s the new ‘Citizen Kane’. It just means 95% of them gave it a passing grade.’
the average critic score was 7.8/10. i think that’s more than passing and stunning since i found the picture such a bore. ‘citizen kane’? where did that come from?
What’s funny is your and baduk’s completely outdated, textbook view of Korean youth and Korean sexuality in the 21st century.
if you’re saying baduk is outdated, who updated it?
Isn’t it you, the foreigner visiting South Korea to spread your lifestyle to the natives?
Is that an advancement in lifestyle, necessarily?
in the Muslim world, they chuck rocks and bullets, so you can’t possibly have an “after chuckle”, after banging native girls , about how pretentious the natives are, and how the anatomy of the local girls differ from the homeland girls.
you should be grateful to the natives for providing consentual sex for you. Why make it an issue as if the Korean natives are anymore degenerate than you are?
and, like Baduk, says, it’s not likely you’re rolling with high class Koreans. I don’t think Americanized gyopos returning to South Korea to take advantage of Korean women necessarily count as high class Koreans.
Interestingly, in South Korea, men do have their first sex with whores when they enter the barracks. I think numbers prove it.
by the way, if you’re going to indulge in the local Korean girls,
have the decency to support
1/ KOR-US FTAgreement
2/ No visa visits from South Korea to US.
3/ USFKorea Army, Navy, and Airforce presence in South Korea, without reducing numbers.
Most of you oppose all 3.
Dogbert….you are hilarious. My “textbook” view comes from the following:
1. living in Korea, and actually having Korean friends who weren’t simply English speaker groupies
2. never living in Itaewon and never being a, or being surrounded by, pseudo English “teachers” whose only educational or cultural qualification is that they couldn’t find a decent job in dear ol’ Canada eh
3. having a Korean spouse and Korean family members who keep me informed of the mores and attitudes of their people
Let’s talk about your “Korean” experience….Canadian English teacher perhaps downing pint after pint of OB at Gecko’s?
Face it, Koreans in general have different views about sex than westerners. It is a fact.
WKJ….you are correct. It is standard practice for young men to pop their cherry with a whore if they are a virgin prior to military service.
WKJ..post #77: I agree with the first two but number 3 needs to change.
Sonagi # 67: Good semantic observation but the intent was that girl=gal=woman= FEMALE!! Don’t read too much into it.
You must be fairly new to the Marmot’s Hole. Dogbert is neither Canadian nor an English teacher. I don’t know about his drinking habits.
@81, either way he has very little knowledge or understanding of Korean society. He might have had meetings, interactions, brief conversations, but he was at best on the fringe.
Ultimately dogbert is just another white guy coming here to whine about the racism he felt in Korea.
“Western society should learn how to curb one’s sexual urges”
But if we did/had done that you wouldn’t be Korean.
Is Vladivostok part of Western society?
“uh you do know most people outside the American borders are anti-American?”
Uh, no. Isn’t that line getting a little stale? It’s like the guy at work who constantly talks about the boss or his co-workers behind their backs because he’s insecure about his own position. Why not just get on with it and do what IS right? If America is so terrible then why do so many people want to go to America?
The fact is, young Korean men and women are having consensual sex before marriage. Is this a recent development in Korea? Probably only in scale and openness.
Fools like wjk and baduk blame “Westerners”, but that is merely a convenient scapegoat. All you need to do is look at an historical Korean drama or two, or if you are able, original sources, to see that sex before marriage was not unknown in Korean society centuries ago.
This is not to single out Koreans, but to acknowledge that people are people. I am just tired of certain Koreans, such as baduk and wjk, falsely claiming their (Koreans’) shit don’t stink.
As far as morons like “Griego” (most likely a former GI), I just have to laugh whenever a white guy thinks he knows about Korean society because “my wife keeps me informed”.
wjk continues to be an idiot.
I noticed that China actually deployed plain-clothes, armed security forces in Nepal after the riots in Tibet broke out.
It is obvious who was supporting the “Maoist” insurgency in Nepal after all and that is China.
“I personally would not have an intercourse with a member of the opposite sex unless it is allowed by the Heavenly Father. I am a Christian.”
“I’m very proud of ya…”.
With that comment, he sounds like a Moonie. Are you a moonie, baduk? That would certainly explain a lot.
True dat.
Ol’ Sgt. Griego must have been confused by the Maple Leaf that pops up next to my ID once in awhile.
I somehow doubt he’s smart enough to figure out why that happens.
True dat.
Ol’ Sgt. Griego must have been confused by the Maple Leaf that pops up next to my ID once in awhile.
I somehow doubt he’s smart enough to figure out why that happens.
“For example, it is quite common for Korean young men to date a traditional Korean girl for a long time before having sex with her. I have known quite a few Korean young men who have dated their girlfriends for YEARS before sleeping with them. Unless you are bent on the religious side, this doesn’t happen in the States.”
You’re incredibly naive. People who tell you they don’t have sex are either virgins by circumstances (the kind that wish they had sex but never had to opportunity or the time to hook up), virgins of tragically religious circumstance, or the pathological liars/not really your friends.
Trust me when I tell you that Korean women talk about sex with their girlfriends, too. As a matter of fact, they can be brutally honest about it.
For example, my wife told me the hilarious story of her friend (the very proper office worker) who thought that she had met ‘the one’. This guy was sweet and romantic, he did everything he could do to make her believe he was the guy she had been waiting for all her life…until they decided to have sex two weeks after they first met. She said it couldn’t have been more than 2 inches erect. She suddenly got a headache, went home, and dumped him the next day.
“Talking about sexual experiences in Korea is exactly the sort of thing that causes scandals and more visa regulations, so I’ll tread softly here”
Oh yeah, you’ve got it all figured out.
“Koreans are brought up to think sex is dirty. Very similar to Western Christians. Even in married couples, mentioning anything about sex is a taboo.”
What about the Jews? Are they less like the Koreans than the Christians?
Are the Koreans more like Irish Christians or Italian Christians?
Do you think the Chinese Christians are more like Western Christians
than the Korean Christians?
“Both are shameful organizations, where adults manipulate the minds of impressionable children to suit their liberal ideals.”
Oh, please. You need to tell you cable TV provider to cancel your subscription to Fox News.
hahahaha
“So I pose some questions for the audience, will the prevalence of paid for services in all their forms decrease in Korea as Korean women adopt more western sexual views?”
You have to make a relationship between your final question and your original idea of dating.
“love motels: These are actually frequented by married couples. Why? In Korean household, there are grandparents, relatives and children living in the same house. Married couples are worried their “love making” sound may be heard by any one of them.”
Koreans still say this? The extended family living together is not
unique to Korea. The world laughs when Korea says things like this.
“Isn’t it you, the foreigner visiting South Korea to spread your lifestyle to the natives?”
Koreans are people born in Korea. That’s about all it means to be
Korean. “Being Korean” is not an explanation for anything, it’s just a nationality.
#86: “As far as morons like “Griego” (most likely a former GI), I just have to laugh whenever a white guy thinks he knows about Korean society because “my wife keeps me informed”.”
#91: “Ol’ Sgt. Griego must have been confused by the Maple Leaf that pops up next to my ID once in awhile.
I somehow doubt he’s smart enough to figure out why that happens.”
But he was smart enough not to do a double-post.
Maybe I’m a confused moron who isn’t smart enough to figure out what’s happening, but are you calling our fighting men and women dumb?
And if you’re not posting from Canada what is the reason a Maple Leaf’s popping up next to your posts?
97: Koreans never say that nonsense to each other. It’s for foreign consumption only. I find they immediately laugh guiltily when you call them on it.
@99: You seem to be taking the opportunity lately to make passive-aggressive potshots against me. If you have some problem with what I write, just say it.
Many of them, yes. Not only that, a fair number are violent gang members and convicted felons.
I’ll give you three guesses. It’s not that difficult to figure out, really.
Dogbert… “true dat” you are an ignorant cur.
I love how you assume that I am a white non-commissioned officer in the US military. To say that Korean sexual mores are not different that Europeans or Americans is just incorrect. No one doubts that Koreans have sex before marriage, of course they do. Hooking up or casual sex is not as common in Korea as it is in Western societies. Maybe if all of my female friends in Korea were bar girls like yours I would think as you do as well.
I do agree with you on one minor point. Most Koreans do think that they are the bastions of morality when in fact the sheer revenue generated from the sex trade in Korea actually makes up a very large % of the Korean GDP. And not all of that is generated from foreigners. A disproportionate % of violent crime is however.
So pray tell Dogbert why you are such an expert in all things Korean? Maybe you can double double post post some more idiotic blather to entertain us all.
Lookie there, there’s that Maple Leaf again!
I don’t claim to be an expert on Korea, there’s much I don’t know. But what I do know comes from speaking Korean fluently, having lived in Korea for 10 years, and having lived and worked among Koreans longer. Let’s just say my wife doesn’t have to filter things for me.
Of course, you conveniently changed your original argument. I could not argue that Korean youth are as wanton as their US counterparts. But thanks to the Internet and other factors, they are quickly making up for lost time.
And the days when Korean men were virgins before marriage (didn’t you yourself say many lost it in the military?) are long gone.
two more things:
1. I grew up in a Christian community, like Baduk, Christian High school and the works. Generally, I observed that, as with any segment of human society, there were elements that were quite moral, and elements that did what they felt like doing, and the full range in between. The only difference between what went on in the Christian High School and what went on in the public one down the road was that the Christians were better at hiding and lying about what they did, and felt a need to, because they felt more guilt, and they spent an hour each sunday morning in a big building with other human beings like them, who did good and bad things during the week, and had to sort out how to live a good life. Not talking about it is different from not doing it, and word on the streets was that the more conservative the church, the easier the girls were, because nobody’d given them a proper sex education, the guilt element gave sex an addictive quality (for guys and girls both,), and the girls had been raised to submit to men. (Sound like any confucian societies you know?)
2. you can create a group called “real Koreans” and define it however you like, but the more people and behaviours you exclude from that group, the less useful it is in discussion. As a parallel example, you can create a group called “real americans” and define it as only those americans who are protestant, white, descended from those who came over on the mayflower, work blue collar jobs, lost a relative in either the Civil or the World Wars (none of those “bad wars” like Vietnam and Iraq for REAL Americans!) and live in a red brick house with two cars in the garage and not more than four, and not less than two children, have never masturbated, and piss perfume . . . but eventually you’ve limited yourself to such a small set of “true” Koreans/Americans/Canadians/Christians/whoever, that there isn’t really any point in talking about them, because the sample size is small enough to be irrelevant. I’m glad you have your little circle of Choseon Koreans, but do not think that all Koreans act like you and your small circle of friends do (or at least say they do).
It would be more accurate to say that very little is generated from foreigners.
Please check out fellow K-blogger GI Korea at http://rokdrop.com
He has compiled a wealth of statistics on crime in Korea. Overall, foreigners do not commit crimes out of proportion to their number. For certain crimes, the proportion is higher for Koreans, for others, the proportion is higher for foreigners. The overall crime rate between the two groups is the same. Part of the problem of relying on a small group of cultural informants (spouses and extended family) is that those informants themselves have biases.
#103: “@99: You seem to be taking the opportunity lately to make passive-aggressive potshots against me. If you have some problem with what I write, just say it.”
I’m just posting responses to stuff. Didn’t mean anything as an attack. Sorry.
“I’ll give you three guesses. It’s not that difficult to figure out, really.”
I guess you’re using a proxy, but I was just wondering why.
‘Korea actually makes up a very large % of the Korean GDP…’
got anything to back this up? also, gi korea is hardly an unbiased source.
dogbert, you’re using nonsense to make fun of me.
You yourself say that Korean kids are using the internet to catch up and have sex before goondae, have sex before marriage.
wow, geez, what an advancement !
say, Sir, if they’re using the internet to catch up to foreign standards of sex,
who the hell are they copying?
Exactly.
My point proven.
That’s what I thought.
You, sit down.
American GI’s make up a significant portion of the sex trade. Most of the South Asian prostitutes get recruited to service American soldiers.
Either way Korea’s prostitution is a small portion of the GDP, in comparison Japan’s prostitution industry alone is 6x larger than Korea’s. Not to mention the billions spent in child porn.
lol dogbert is just another white reject. I used to see them all the time in Korea.
New land new opportunities and then reality sinks in and they realize they are still losers except in a foreign country.
Then they come to marmot’s hole to cry about the racism they felt.
I will never forget a conversation I had with some recently graduated office workers.
They brought up the subject of sex and asked if I was a virgin. I restated my age (30 at the time) and asked them what they thought. Of course they then asked if I had ever had sex with a *gasp* Korean girl. I said yes and they could not figure it out since all Korean women were virgins until they were married. They assumed a prostitute.
Anyways, I flipped the question on them and they said that of course they have had sex. I asked if they had girlfriends and the answer was yes. I then asked if they paid for the sex - they staunchly denied it. I asked if all Korean women were virgins until they got married and they said yes. I asked if they had sex with a foreigner and they said no.
This loop was repeated multiple times and the light bulb never did click on. I suppose I could have asked if they had sex with a married woman but I was quite sure what the answer would have been.
Self perception and reality here can be vastly different.
Call them ghetto Koreans or disparage the social networks of people you have never met by using gross generalizations and stereotypes if you like…if it makes you feel better about yourself I guess.
The bottom line is that Koreans are just as horny as the rest of the world - and not afraid to act on it.
“The revenue generated is estimated to be more than US$21 billion a year, or more than 4% of the nation’s gross domestic product (GDP), according to the Ministry of Gender Equality, which also says more than 500,00