A group of Korean-American housewives have released a statement opposing the full opening of the Korean market to US beef, reports the Kyunghyang Shinmun.
The group, called in Korean the “Korean-American Housewives Group Demanding Renegotiation of Beef Imports,” refuted point-by-point a May 7 statement by another Korean-American group supporting US beef. The group said it felt regret and fury over how some Korean-American are claiming US beef is safe. They expressed concern that the views of some Korean-American groups were being mistakenly conveyed as representative of all Korean-Americans.
The housewives said in their statement that even in the United States, insecurity about and distrust of US beef was growing. They noted that this year, there was a beef recall after a slaughterhouse illegally slaughtered a cow showing signs of Mad Cow Disease and distributed the meat all over the country, including to school cafeteria. They also cited another beef recall in Kansas last month.
The statement said the United States did not sufficiently inspect the safety of its beef; with less than 1% of US beef undergoing inspection for Mad Cow Disease, nobody could guarantee its safety.
Incidentally, one Korean-American housewife called up MBC’s “100 Minute Debate” last night to say much the same.
82 Comments
Maybe they should pack up and get their asses back to the Motherland where their little Min-Seoks and Ji-Hyuns can be safe in the arms of Korea!
We all know how safe Korea is for children!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
At least they are focusing on somewhat reasonable points.
Kind of.
Was the beef not recalled for e coli? Not even in the scope of the negotiations.
#2,
Yes, there was a big recall on beef that was found to contain E.coli o:157. I think what the housewives are talking about is that cows’ heads were recalled because the producer had failed to remove the tonsil tissue, which could contain prions if the cows had BSE. No mad cow found…just someone who screwed up.
http://www.wibw.com/localnews/.....63464.html
I’m a Korean beef consumer. I want to know which agency of the Korean government “guarantees” the safety of Korean foods — who’s responsible for the fried rats’ heads, the garbage mandu, and motor oil in the ramyon noodles? Is this agency inspecting 100% of foodstuffs sold here, the standard supposedly being espoused by the housewives’ group? If so, how did the regulators miss the rats’ heads?
If you are having a hard time falling asleep, my advice is to start considering the opinions of housewives.
Call me crazy, but I’d trust leaving my kid in a room full of American beef a million times more than I’d trust leaving them in a room full of ajosshis!!!
Per “Goat’s” question, the Chino meat plant in California recalled 143 million pounds of beef after they got caught processing cows that should not have been processed. one article on this here.
Actually, when I read this thread, it makes me a bit happy because this is the very sort of unexpected motivation that may help improve meat inspection in the U.S. and the politics of public health and safety — which most Americans are ignorant about — simply because much of what goes on is not openly discussed in the media, not to mention the very powerful meat industry lobby that floods the media with PR releases if something should occur.
These people are part of the industry that got lawyered-up and went after Oprah Winfrey after her program on the meat industry; not because she slandered them or hurt their business but because they wanted to make an example of what would happen to any investigative reporting that became too critical of the industry. Even though Winfrey won, the scare of large-scale litigation was enough to silence much media investigation of the industry since no one wants to run the risk of that kind of heavy litigation.
Occasionally, the industry also employs tricky tactics such as astro-turf front groups or bloggers that are actually funded by parts of the meat industry, pop up, now and again when needed. I should mention that despite the regulation of the meat industry as initiated by T. Roosevelt, today, the USDA (United States Department of Agriculture) is staffed with meat industry people, at the management level, thus there are plenty of foxes watching our hen houses.
OP: “They noted that this year, there was a beef recall after a slaughterhouse illegally slaughtered a cow showing signs of Mad Cow Disease and distributed the meat all over the country, including to school cafeteria.”
I think they’re talking about the Hallmark/Westland Meatpacking Company. That was very big news here in the United States. It involved issues of animal cruelty and illegal processing of downer animals that were considered not fit for human consumption.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.....ng_Company
http://www.pe.com/localnews/sb.....0.html?npc
But the agency failed to catch ongoing abuse of cows at Chino’s Westland/Hallmark Meat Co., despite a full complement of on-site federal inspectors.
The undercover Humane Society investigation in Chino yielded video footage showing plant employees beating downer cows, prodding them in the eyes, dragging them with chains and shoving animal across a pen with a forklift.
The video also provided evidence that downer cows were allowed into the food supply in violation of federal regulations.
That violation led to the recall of 143 million pounds of beef, which had been dispersed throughout the country in a variety of products. Schoolchildren had already eaten roughly 30 million pounds of the meat by the time the recall was initiated, according to federal estimates.
The USDA inspector general’s office is looking into the events that led to the recall. Apart from that investigation, which could lead to criminal charges, the office is auditing slaughterhouses around the country to determine whether the mistreatment of animals at meat plants is widespread.
—
The Agriculture Department first began outlawing downer cows from food destined for human consumption in 2004, after a cow in Washington state tested positive for mad cow disease. But cows that pass an initial inspection before they go down still may be killed and sold for food if they are approved for slaughter by a veterinary inspector.
After years of fighting such a ban, the meat industry, pointing to problems with consumer confidence and strained international trade negotiations, last month called upon Schafer to impose one.
Ahh yes. I remember that now. Thanks
Despite such minor incidents, American beef is absolutely safe. And might I point out that Chino is less than an hour’s drive from any sabotage-minded Koreatown resident? Hmm? Hmm?
“there was a beef recall after a slaughterhouse illegally slaughtered a cow showing signs of Mad Cow Disease and distributed the meat all over the country, including to school cafeteria.”
One cow was slaughtered and its meat was distributed all over the country including (sic) to school cafeteria??? That must have been one Big Fucking Cow!!!!!
The thing that is so frustrating about all of this is that there’s plenty of GOOD an logical criticism that can be levelled against the US meat industry, (horomones, overuse of anti-biotics, high fat, e-coli, treatment of animals, treatment of labor, etc. etc.) but then we get idiots going and making a whole bunch of hysterical criticism that make no sense at all.
It would be like criticising the canal because piranas would breed there…
Bunch of old ladies who are not listened to by their husbands at home so they have nothing better to do then attention whore in Korea….
All Koreans get out of the US! Kimchee Go Home! Kimchee Go Home! Kimchee Go Home!
What are you talking about? Most Koreans in America support the FTA and beef exports to Korea.
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/ww.....23659.html
http://english.chosun.com/w21d.....70013.html
http://english.donga.com/srv/s.....8050739948
“Saxlif” is correct in #12.
Those cows that were filmed at the Chino plant were more likely “downers” because they were dairy cows that had been milked so much that they suffered from calcium depletion, thus leading to sick animals. This has nothing to do with BSE whatsoever.
This is precisely the sort of serious misinformation that is going around and it is sad to see so many Korean students have no critical skills to investigate this for themselves.
At least there is more rational concern over the effects of the canal proposal, which poses a far greater risk to the country than any threat of BSE.
“Those cows that were filmed at the Chino plant were more likely “downers” because they were dairy cows that had been milked so much that they suffered from calcium depletion, thus leading to sick animals. This has nothing to do with BSE whatsoever.”
Downer cows are a sign of something wrong, including the possibility of BSE. From my link in #8:
The Agriculture Department first began outlawing downer cows from food destined for human consumption in 2004, after a cow in Washington state tested positive for mad cow disease.
“This is precisely the sort of serious misinformation that is going around and it is sad to see so many Korean students have no critical skills to investigate this for themselves.”
Did you read your own link completely? It looks like you’re saying downer cows are no big deal because they’re likely to just be calcium-depleted cows. That’s one possibility, and it’s a possibility that itself has serious problems:
Prices for “culled” dairy cows can be half to about a tenth of the price of a fully fed steer in the beef market. The reason for the discount is that some dairy cows go to slaughter plants in rough shape. Typically, they have often been milked for several years, leaving their bodies without the muscle, fat and calcium of grazing, well-fed beef cattle. Some dairy cows appear emaciated when they are sold to slaughter plants, their hides stretched tight over their hindquarters and ribs.
Dairy cows can also carry some common maladies, including mastitis, a bacterial infection of the udder; foot rot, which they can develop from standing for long periods in manure, mud and damp straw; and Johne’s (pronounced yo-neez) disease, a wasting illness.
Scientists believe these diseases are not carried into the human food chain, with one possible exception: Health and animal scientists are currently debating whether the traits of Johne’s are responsible for Crohn’s disease in humans. Crohn’s disease is an intestinal disorder that can cause inflammation of the colon, severe abdominal pain, diarrhea and weight loss.
Some argue that it’s these very problems that prompt farmers to dispatch the cows to the slaughterhouse in the first place.
“Farmers are obviously not culling dairy cows just because they aren’t making a lot of milk,” said Michael Collins of the University of Wisconsin School of Veterinary Medicine, an expert on Johne’s disease. “Almost by definition, there’s something wrong with them, and in some cases those can be infections that present issues for humans.”
Here we see the true difference between Korean American and Korean living in America. Koreans that bring there logic with and watch KBS news on the satialite aren’t really American.
I don’t think the complaints of the women in question are inaccurate or wild per se, and they are right about there being rising concern over beef in the US lately.
However, I think a lot of this debate is tripping over the fact that the cattle industry and meat production is just a messy business, there are always violations and producers whose self-interest lies in profit and not protecting consumers, and that objectively, eating beef isn’t the most healthy thing you can do, unless you kill it yourself or pay out the nose for some organic versions of it.
I love beef, and take the risks that come with it. I have American beef in my freezer from the base. And I’m sick of the irrational atmosphere here over this issue. So in about an hour, I’m going to take my American beef that fills the spaghetti sauce I made this morning and make a point of eating it in front of my history class while opening up a discussion of what are reasonable points of critique in this issue, what is obviously unreasonable, and trying to point out the nature of reliable sources.
And that being said, in terms of these women being a sign of growing concern over the safety of American beef and the regulations/watchdogs who are supposed to guarantee our safety, I don’t think they deserve to be lumped in with the rest of the crazies, even if they do give said crazies additional ammo.
Anyway — another crazy issue and teaching point, methinks.
Yes, to your question “User”. Your observations are precisely why editors are useful before publishing anything.
I did not mean to dismiss “downer” cows as being only suffering from one problem since they could actually have BSE, though the chances — as of now — are very low. I would worry more about e-coli bacteria, which could occur in any country’s meat industry.
I sure in the heck have a few questions here.
How many are in the group. How long have they lived in the USA.
If its past 10 years, shouldn’t they be dead already?
What do they serve their families in the USA?
How much of this meat have they themselves ate in the last so many years…..
The insanity just keeps moving on and on.
have you ever gone into a korean butcher shop??? and koreans bitch about meat saftey
they have beef, pork, and other meats pretty much hanging out in room temperature, flies all over the place! they counter tops and cutting boards they use are not sanitary
either way i am still cooking out this sunday
tbones and porterhouses and brews!! who wants to come? conservatives only since we are happier dont want any party pooping liberals dragging down the mood
“Korean American Housewives”? Who are they? Where are they? What are they? The link to Kyung Hyang Shimun only says “미주지역에 거주하는 한인주부들” (Korean housewives living in the US). That’s all it says. It doesn’t say “Gyopo”, and it doesn’t neccessarily mean “Korean Americans”. With no names quoted, and no description of this organization anywhere, I find this source highly suspicious. Unless I see a link to a source and its association identified by this paper, we have to question the validity of the source. (before everyone claims this is what majority of Korean American views are and jump in to ask for mass deportation of Gyopos)
You guys are far too good natured and fair minded. Using logic and other strange notions. Oh, the folly!
Gotta play by the Korean rules. Impugn the Koreans and the gyopos, too. Make it so that their businesses suffer. Call the fire/health board to report violations. Any Korean that owns a cash-driven business is likely under reporting income, so call the IRS. Report parachute kids to the school board - there are a lot of gyopos who are boarding students in their homes, often in violation of zoning regulations.
And there are so many undocumented Koreans in the States that you have a 1 in 3 chance of finding one in a church or supermarket. Call INS.
Turn about is just a phone call away.
And I thought China had the gold medal for mindless nationalistic exuberance sewn up after the Olympic flame debacle. Korea Hwaiting!
“they have often been milked for several years”. I’d say that they are safely beyond the thirty month status. Is this typical, a common practice? How long has this been going on? If you say this is not anything new, like only within the last month, then it would therefore be safe to say that Americans HAVE been consuming beef beyond the thirty month criteria and that whole notion of us sending beef not even Americans would consume to Korea is shot out the window.
Maddlew: yeah I had one student in class today to mentioned that thing about Koreans being sent the beef that Americans don’t want do eat.
I’m not sure how that even makes any logical sense. Right now there’s no beef imports being sent to Korea so how the fuck do they know what imports will be sent when/if imports begin again. In any case I remember back in 2003 when they still imported American beef and I don’t remember there being anything wrong with that (I miss cheap LA galbi
).
#21….excellent point. Just last weekend I saw some cow heads that must have had 100 flies on them each. Nasty stuff and much more unhealthy than a US tenderloin. But then this whole thing isn’t about Mad Cow from US beef. It’s another anti-US display. Since no children have been run over lately and the GI’s haven’t robbed a taxi driver in weeks, this is the only card the haters can play right now.
Don’t they realize kimchi is as effective against vCJD as it is against SARS and AI?
“I would worry more about e-coli bacteria, which could occur in any country’s meat industry.’
Yeah, E. Coli occurs everywhere, but some places more than others. Feeding the cows grains like corn makes them much more susceptible to E. Coli and factory farming makes the chance of contamination much more likely.
It’s too bad that the anti-US beef protesters are focusing so much on Mad Cow because there are many other problems that aren’t so easily dismissed.
By the way, I was just now talking with a Taiwanese and a Japanese friend about how Mad Cow was a much smaller problem than many people think it is, and they nearly went ballistic.
One thing that is not stopping is the Korean housewives and ajummas buying kalbi, steaks, and soup bones on base in mass quantities!
US beef is unsafe. We don’t want US beef!
#30,
…And let’s not mention that the carcasses of laboratory dogs have been sold to dog meat restaurants in the past.
#31,
…which is probably all served in their mothers’ and aunt’s restaurants.
I’m a little suspicious of this group. There are many Korean-American groups that were established to support each other in starting and sustaining their interests, like Korean-American grocers. They’ve grown powerful in their respective community and have released press releases to announce that American beef is safe. For a housewives group to contradict what many of these groups have announced is little suspicious. Plus, I was talking to my 12-year old nephew in Korea and when I asked him what he thought of this situation, he said, “MBC is liberal and hates LMB.” Even he knows MBC is not “balanced” news.
BTW, for all those wanting some sort of “let’s teach them a lesson,” this is the only group from the Korean-American community to come out and say American beef is unsafe. Many Korean-American groups have come out saying that American beef is safe and that the Korean media is doing nothing but disservice to the general Korean population.
@32. Agree, but “all it takes for idiocy to prevail is for wise people to do nothing.”
This is the land of the bird flu is it not? What irony!
Nah,
China the land of bird flu.
That’s where if first came from.
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn8686
#38,
Maybe, but I don’t think that statement was meant to be taken literally. Besides, there are divergent chains. The divergent chain found in Japan originated from ducks that migrated from Korea, for example.
Those of you who lived in Korea in the 1970’s might remember the hanging meat in glass cases that were NOT refrigerated an the flies buzzing around.
We ate it anyway, figuring the heat and flame and the SOJU would kill anything …and that delicious homemade kimchi, Koreas natural antibiotic.
Other than making me sterile things worked out ok.
@39, both the birds in Korea and Japan are infected with H5N1, which originated in China.
@40, kimchi made you sterile? Maybe you should’ve picked a better place to eat.
For foreigners not raised on kimchi, kimchi leads to bad breath, which leads to not being able to get a date, which leads to inability to reproduce.
Ergo, kimchi = might as well be sterile
Americans. Why can’t you just test the cows before eating?
In Japan, all the cows are tested free of BSE before consumption.
In the US, it is practically impossible to test cows because beef industry is afraid of finding BSE cows.
How is it they conveniently forgot to mention that the factory was closed?
“Americans. Why can’t you just test the cows before eating? In Japan, all the cows are tested free of BSE before consumption.
In the US, it is practically impossible to test cows because beef industry is afraid of finding BSE cows.”
No, there are no BSE cows to be afraid of - not a single case for years. The reason it is practically impossible is scale. The Japs wouldn’t be able to do it either.
Let me say one more thing about US vs Korea in terms of food safety. It got to the point that I just couldn’t stand Korean restaurants any more because of the dirty conditions. Everything washed in cold water, food improperly stored, recycled side dishes,crap all over the floors. Korea is one dirty mess of a country.
“In the US, it is practically impossible to test cows because beef industry is afraid of finding BSE cows.”
Is this truly your idea of a logical argument?
Mizar5, how can you tell there is no BSE cow in the US, even if they do not test any?
ELISA tests and Western Blot tests are used in Japan, and they are quite accurate.
http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/de.....ll/cpv8832
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_blot
I know some people argue that if the concentration of prion is less than a certain threshold, the tests cannot detect the prion. But the same can be said of any scientific testing, and that does not prevent people from testing what they consume, does it?
Consumers are well justified feeling unsafe when eating untested material.
Mizar5, how can you tell there is no BSE cow in the US, even if they do not test any?
ELISA tests and Western Blot tests are used in Japan, and they are quite accurate.
I know some people argue that if the concentration of prion is less than a certain threshold, the tests cannot detect the prion. But the same can be said of any scientific testing, and that does not prevent people from testing what they consume, does it?
Consumers are well justified feeling unsafe when eating untested material.
Government of Japan once said to the US meat producers that it would lift beef import ban if they test the cows before processing. Some of the producers agreed to test cows but US government intervened and canceled such agreements, saying it does not allow testing. And we know the reason why the US government refuses tests.
J, you are just a hysterical Korean obsessed with Mad Cow trying to justify the nationalistic ban on US beef. American beef is completely safe, and we know that even without testing every animal.
“The Japs”
The Japs?
“American beef is completely safe, and we know that even without testing every animal.”
How can you tell “without testing”?
#52, sample testing is adequate. If there’s a major problem with contamination or BSE, you’ll probably find it in that 0.1% of cows that are tested (that’s the percentage someone said earlier). Because it won’t be just one cow.
Testing each animal is costly and holds up the cattle drive. Besides, 100% testing is a non-tariff barrier imposed by Japan, and you know it.
Here is a good article in USA Today.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/o.....view_x.htm
Japan started testing all the cattle from October 2001, totaling 7,974,161 as of March 2008, and found only 21 BSE cows. That means you have to test 379,721 cattle to find 1 BSE cattle. Of course, 0.1% sampling is not enough. And what happens if the sample testing finds one BSE cow? That means 1,000 BSE cattle are out there unchecked.
If a burden is levied only on exporters, it is a non-tariff barrier. If the same rule applies to both exporters and domestic producers, it is not. Beef producers in Japan are required to do the 100% testing. Why asking 100% testing to exporters can be a non-tariff barrier?
J, I’m mostly being sarcastic, echoing lame defenses of the U.S. beef industry. Your USA Today article is very scary.
USDA is doing the bidding of large cattle barons afraid that Creekstone’s marketing [having 100% BSE-tested beef] will force them to do the same tests to stay competitive. It’s true that the incidence of mad cow disease is quite low. But there’s little logic in stopping a company from exceeding regulations to meet the demands of its customers, or protecting its rivals from legitimate competition.
Not only is USDA blocking Creekstone, the department said last month that it’s reducing its mad cow testing program by 90%. The industry and its sympathetic regulators seem to believe that the problem isn’t mad cow disease. It’s tests that find mad cow.
The department tests only 1% of the roughly 100,000 cattle slaughtered daily. The new plan will test only 110 cows a day.
Scientists don’t know the exact cause of BSE but think it’s spread when cows are fed ground-up parts of cattle and other cud-chewing animals. The government has tightened cattle-feed rules, but loopholes still permit cattle blood as a milk substitute and chicken waste as a protein supplement.
Canada has found four cows with BSE this year, and at least one was born after similar cattle feed rules were imposed that should have prevented the animal from being infected.
Sixty-five nations have full or partial restrictions on importing U.S. beef products because of fears that the testing isn’t rigorous enough. As a result, U.S. beef product exports declined from $3.8 billion in 2003, before the first mad cow was detected in the USA, to $1.4 billion last year. Foreign buyers are demanding that USDA do more.
#54,
The test used by Japan apparently gives quite a few false positives, so it’s probably less than 21 cows.
#55,
18 and 20$, that’s what the tests used by Creekstone and the Alberta government cost per cow. Makes you wonder about why the USDA’s test costs 325$.
That case has been in court for a few years now. It was very strategic on Creekstone’s part to move forward on their own with testing, although they probably didn’t have such a legal battle with the gov’t in mind. From my understanding, Japan has agreed to pay for the testing once it’s implemented. The concerns on the gov’t side are that they are not really able to accurately test each and every cow due to latent BSE and the use of testing for smaller companies like Creekstone won’t scale to larger companies. It’s a little muddy what the USDA’s main argument is as they also want to not only sell the kits but oversee the use of the kits. It could be no more than bureaucracy meets the market or it really could be that the big beef players know that they can’t scale up quickly enough thus losing substantial market share to companies that can label their meat “BSE Tested”.
Oral arguments in the latest stage of the case were heard last week, and it’ll be interesting to see how it turns out.
@ user-81
It was a pretty lame effort mind you…but nice try I guess.
The fact that Japan imposes 100% testing on their own beef is kind of a double edged sword - although it pretty much guarantees that the meat entering the system is safe, other countries have (like the US) used the relatively high number of cases to restrict imports.
So in the case you are bass ackwards. The 100% testing is indeed being used as a non-tariff trade barrier imposed by the US.
Or was. I am not sure if this is still current.
Wow, there are so many responses because it’s about Korean women rejecting something American. They must be hurt lol…
“Mizar5, how can you tell there is no BSE cow in the US, even if they do not test any?”
The logical fallacy lies in the fact that you can’t disprove a negative. Anyone can resort to groundless accusations, which is why in law the burden of proof lies with the accuser, not the accused.
The analogy: telling an atheist that he must prove there is no God, or calling upon a nonbeliever to disprove the notion that there are gremlins in the basement. The one who posits the existence of a thing for which there is no evidence often resourts to such logical fallacies to support the unsupportable.
Likewise, there is not a shred of evidence to suggest that there is the least likelihood of a danger of BFE in the US meat supply, and anyone suggesting otherwise should put up or shut up.
“Wow, there are so many responses because it’s about Korean women rejecting something American. They must be hurt lol…”
Koreans pride themselves on pretending to reject something American, but the act is not the least bit convincing. The very pretention underscores the obvious desperation to absorb everything American, to be more American than Americans.
Take hanu - nothing more than American import cattle prepared in a way that mimics American beef. Just a decade ago, Koreans had no idea what marbled beef was. Now that they acquired the concept rrom Americans, they are intent on pretending it’s something quintessentially Korean.
#61, proving the existence of BSE in American beef is like proving the existence of God? It’s not an issue of philosophy but practicality: you could do a test on each and every cow in the U.S. and see how many (if any) test positive.
It might be hard to find a shred of evidence when only 1/1000 of cows are to be tested and the government is trying to block companies from doing 100% testing.
Why turn this issue into that kind of topic? Get back to talking about forcing Koreans to put American meat into their mouths.
Korean cityscapes are full of Koreans pretending to reject American things.
I would hazard to guess that this situation will continue for as long as the reaction by the rest of the world to cases where BSE is discovered isn’t so much “well done in finding that case of BSE before it entered the food supply,” as “OMFG, AMERKAN BIFF IZ POISUN!!!1!111(11)”
I also wonder how many Korean cows are tested for BSE before entering the food supply. After all, unless at least 1% of the cattle are tested (and inspectors aren’t just greeted at each facility by white envelopes and soju junkets), then Korean beef is no safer than the American stuff.
I don’t know how many are tested, so I can’t say it’s as low as in the U.S. (1%, soon to be 0.1%) or as high as in Europe (25%) or in Japan (100%). If anyone knows the answer, I’d like to hear it.
Korea also banned Canadian and Japanese beef when Mad Cow was discovered there. It’s not like this is a U.S.-only ban. But the U.S. is the only country pushing Korea to resume imports and it’s also got the worst testing regimen of all of them.
“proving the existence of BSE in American beef is like proving the existence of God? It’s not an issue of philosophy but practicality”
A red herring argument. The analogy is apt and the point was unrefuted.
“you could do a test on each and every cow in the U.S. and see how many (if any) test positive.”
Could you? And how would you propose to do that? How many industries maintain a 100% quality control policy? Let’s see your proposal and then we’ll judge how practical it is. Or is it easier to speak in sweeping generalities than to offer a valid, practical argument?
“It’s not like this is a U.S.-only ban. But the U.S. is the only country pushing Korea to resume imports”
Pushing Korea? When has Korea ever ceded any point in a negotiation that was not to its (usually lopsided) benefit? Korea has been sucking at the US teat for years now, dumping its autos and cell phones at prices that are a fraction of its domestic prices, and spending a fraction of what any other nation has for military protection. And when the US finally asks for something in return for the enormous inequitable balance of trade it has granted Korea for decades, this same invalid argument is dredged up once again.
It’s a cynical argument, has nothing to do with public health and everything to do with the same old dishonest Korean tricks.
Mizar5, the Japanese check each cow. I’m not saying the U.S. should do that, but it is possible (but costly) and it will show how many cows have BSE according to the test used. Completely different from proving or disproving the existence of a higher being.
Autos in Korea sold at a fraction of their cost in America? I wish, so I could buy three or four. Spending “a fraction of what any other nation has for military protection”? What stats show this?
Which guy stated that dealing with Korea in reference to trade is like playing whack-a-mole?
The stats are public record, and have been explored on this site before - no other nation with analogous security needs, ie. an enemy amassed on its border spends as little as Korea as a percentage of its GDP, and the US has paid for most of this military protection for a great many years gratis.
As for proving the existance of a higher being, get off that kick. It was an analogy about the flawed logic of the debate. Here’s another valid analogy. You can’t compare apples to oranges. Japan’s beef industry is tiny. Ergo, they can test 100% The EU can’t test more than 25%. In the US where the market is huge, there are valid scientific arguments showing that it is wastful and unnecessary to test that high a percentage. Read up on it.
Do I advocate a higher % be tested? Sure, but is it an end-all solution or the wisest use of resources? No. considering the historical safety of the beef industry, the money could arguably be much be better spent inspecting imports from overseas, including Korea, where the standards are considerably lower, which is a much more critical safety issue.
The rumors about the US beef industry in Korea are downright absurd. It is maintained that the US is dumping unsafe beef its own citizens won’t consume which has never been the case. Your arguments feed this misinformation.
The bottom line about trade is that Korea is free to negotiate any deal or policy they want. If they are prepared to perform additional testing, fine. But to impose this condition on the US is a de facto trade barrier, and improper in the context of negotiating a free trade deal. Since there is not a single shred of evidence that US beef is unsafe, the consumer must judge.
As for Korean dumping, do you think Korean citizens get cars that meet US emission and safety standards, and the same warrenty at the same price? This is why economically challenged Americans buy Korean imports while people with change in their pockets do not. Cell phones in Korea that cost upwards of $500 sell in the US for $100 and under. Korea built its economy by dumping in the US market.
Let me close by saying that there has never been a case of BSE in humans in the US, but several in the UK. Testing of US beef is considered adequate for US consumption, and this is the same beef that is exported.
Mizar5, the US currently bans beef import from Japan. Do you support that policy? If so, why?
US found 2 BSE cows out of 764,000 cows examined.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/o.....pose_x.htm
Japan found 21 BSE cows out of 7,974,161 cows examined. I do not see much difference in the ratio. Why bother to ban Japanese beef?
And as you persist so many times, the burden of proof of non-existence of BSE infected cows in the import is not on Japan, right?
Japanese beef is as safe as US beef, so lift the ban and enjoy it. And I have to mention that Japan should not test the cows for US export because doing so will bring “false sense of security” to the US consumers.
Before it was “spending a fraction of what any other nation has for military protection” and now it’s “no other nation with analogous security needs, ie. an enemy amassed on its border spends as little as Korea as a percentage of its GDP.”
A country with an enemy amassed on its border? So would that be Taiwan at 2.2%? Mongolia at 1.4%? Japan at 0.8%? Vietnam at 2.5%? Poland at 1.71%? Lithuania or Latvia at 1.2% Estonia at 2.0%? None as high as Korea’s 2.7%
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2034rank.html
I’m going to quit now because it’s a waste of time trying to keep up with your shifting rhetoric. I’m done here anyway.
Good. Get lost. None of these examples are analogous so give it up.
The ban on Japanese beef was retaliatory and was to be kept in place until the ban on US beef was completely lifted.
On the other side, an $800,000 per year (give or take pre ban) export market of sales to the US is a drop in the bucket compared to the other way around.
It is a non-tariff trade barrier but in light of the magnitude (or lack of), it would hardly make an impact on either market. It could be seen as a policy statement. Isn’t international trade fun?
In essence, the Japanese exports of beef is minuscule and banning it would hardly create a ripple in either domestic or international markets.
In regards to the military spending, I think the reference was to the cost-sharing percentage with the US military. Japan and Germany have historically paid a much more equitable share of the costs of hosting the US (iirc). It was a common topic when President (Oh)No(!) took control…wanting an equal relationship but not wanting to assume equal costs.
(don’t quote me on this crap…I am not too sure about the exact numbers).
I don’t know the Japanese beef issue. But if we can stick to science, there is an important distinction between the testing program and food safety. Increased testing has shown the risk of BSE to be statistically insignificant. Food safety involves the proper preparation of meat to remove the specified risk materials (SRM,cattle parts such as the brain and spinal cord, which are likely to carry the BSE agent if an animal is infected, which has been required since early 2004.
As a result the risk of BSE in the food supply is virtually nonexistent, and this is what matters.
I came back to look for my keys. Oh, there they are.
Taiwan is not analogous?
Thank you Goat. Some people argue for the sake of arguing. Others present defensible facts.
Actually, I’d love to try Japanese beef in the US. I;ve had it in Japan and it was good. And it would appear to be of a higher quality than Korean beef, which is rather spotty and seldom lives up to its hype. But it’s a specialty item and not that easy to get. I imagine I’d need to go to a Japanese market in a large metropolitan area such as NY or LA to find it.
Not analogous and an isolated example that does not negate the point. The fact is the US has shouldered a huge burden of Korea’s security costs and this has been an invaluable contribution in addition to low cost loans and outright grants provided to Korea to build it from the ashes. My point? Americans would be shocked if they only knew what was going on in the streets of Korea and in the Korean media with regard to the sensationalizing of this issue.
Fortunately for Korea, stories from Korea do not make the US news. But can you imagine how incensed the American public would be if they saw these lies being printed every day defaming America and the rampant anti-Americanism in Korea. You’d see a huge backlash against Korean products that would bring Samsung, Hyundai and Kia to their knees.
So Koreans might as well awake from their fantasy world and face the facts. Without America’s goodwill, the Republic of Korea would not have amounted to very much.
Interesting article:
http://www.choicesmagazine.org.....5-2-03.htm
exerpt: “Although the US response to BSE can be critiqued in some areas, the overall response appears to be far more efficient than, for example, that of Japan, which removed all cattle over 30 months from the food chain, instituted universal BSE testing, and banned meat and bone meal for all uses. US policy makers appear to have considered the costs and benefits of various approaches and recognized that the risk to human health is extremely low.”
“How low is the risk? In the United Kingdom, the human version of BSE has claimed around 150 victims. However, they have had more than 180,000 BSE infected cows, most of which were found before the connection to human disease was recognized. Estimates of the total number of animals infected in the United Kingdom run to as high as two million. Had Canadian and US authorities taken no precautions to eliminate SRM tissues from food, four Canadian BSE cases might have led to 0.004 human cases in the next 10-15 years. The human health risk from BSE is probably far lower than the risk of choking on a toothbrush.”
Mizar5, though the article you raised is generally good, Japan does not remove all cattle over 30 months from the food chain. Actually about 1/3 of the cows processed every year in Japan are older than 30 months.
If your computer reads Japanese, try this page.
http://www.mhlw.go.jp/houdou/0110/h1018-6.html
You know what “meat and bone meal” is. Japanese consumers are very much concerned about the practice of US farmers who feed the chickens with meat and bone meal first then collect the excretions and feed the cows with them. By this practice, prion in the meat and bone meal can infect cows. What is the use of meat and bone meal other than this, anyway?
Japan tested all cattle and prevented 21 BSE cattle from being distributed in the market. Japanese think the money is well spent. If the US stick to 0.1% sample testing, by the time the first BSE cow is detected by the sample testing, expected 999 BSE cows will have been distributed in the market. Even so, you would argue that eating BSE infected beef is just OK. I disagree and I do not want to be the unlucky one who eats such beef.
“If the US stick to 0.1% sample testing, by the time the first BSE cow is detected by the sample testing, expected 999 BSE cows will have been distributed in the market.”
Using that math, since 180,000 mad cows in England resulted in 150 victims, that would result in a 1 in 300,000,000 chance of MCD infecting a human. Of course, the odds are much lower considering the recall that would take place, making the odds infintessimal.
Given the scale of beef consumption in the US (because Americans consume beef daily - and yes, it’s American beef) testing on a large scale is simply unfeasible.
Scientists point out that MCD is simply a concern of the past, and we’d be better off focusing on concerns that have a statistical probablility such as e coli. Now, in Korea, this would be a much more realistic concern given the genreally poor handling of food products - refridgerated trucks with the power shut off, and so forth. US beef is completely safe and testing is more than adequate.
What is MCD?
Of course, large scale testing in the US is possible. That depends only on the will of people. At least, the US beef producers should test the cows for export, and scale is not an excuse here.
Some of the scientists may say something, other scientists may say quite another.
“US beef is completely safe.”
It is not. Even you admit there is small risk.