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	<title>Comments on: FAN DEATH! It&#8217;s What&#8217;s for Dinner&#8230;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/05/02/fan-death-its-whats-for-dinner/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/05/02/fan-death-its-whats-for-dinner/</link>
	<description>Korea... in Blog Format</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 13:00:13 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: SeoulPodcast &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Episode 7: Amanda Takes Off&#8230;</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/05/02/fan-death-its-whats-for-dinner/#comment-153014</link>
		<dc:creator>SeoulPodcast &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Episode 7: Amanda Takes Off&#8230;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 May 2008 12:29:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=6534#comment-153014</guid>
		<description>[...] FAN DEATH! It’s What’s for Dinner… [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] FAN DEATH! It’s What’s for Dinner… [...]</p>
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		<title>By: gordsellar</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/05/02/fan-death-its-whats-for-dinner/#comment-152607</link>
		<dc:creator>gordsellar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 14:19:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=6534#comment-152607</guid>
		<description>Wangkon, 

Well, for one thing, the source of the 94% statistic suggests that Japanese and Koreans differ in incidence of the MM allele frequency. Not sure if it's true, whether the sample is large enough, but is it worth arguing with someone who hadn't even read the abstract?

And yes, if there are fewer Koreans than Americans, it means fewer Koreans than Americans will get CJD in the long run. That only makes sense, doesn't it? I'm not arguing more Americans have CJD than Korean-Americans or Asian Americans, I'm arguing nobody knows how many Americans (and Korean-Americans, and so on) will have it in 2020 or 2030. Governments can be painfully short-sighted when it comes to long-term health and safety issues, especially those who want to boost trade big now at any cost. 

(If you have any doubt, look at 20th century environmental and science policy across the world.) 

But it takes a long time for prionic diseases to show up, so the analogy with British agriculture is worth looking at. Was anyone in Britain in 1990 freaking out about CJD and mad cow disease? In 1985? In 1980? Yet now, the very kind of agriculture you're arguing is "safe" is illegal in Britain. 

(Some people insist on not learning from others' mistakes. Believe it or not, caution can sometimes be the wisest policy.) 

Anyway, Baedol's right: it's the total lack of restrictions that is disturbing. Hell, in the wake of finding out that they've been sold mandu containing rotten vegetables washed in raw sewage and trash rice in so much of their kimbap, it's understandable how sensitive to food issues people are: it's not like food safety and quality inspections have a good, or even a passable, track record here. 

Which is the funny thing: this isn't really a partisan issue; to think of public health and safety that way is a distortion. (Well, unless you're so far right-wing that you believe anyone who isn't rich enough to safeguard himself and his loved ones is disposable trash, I suppose.) Then again, I suppose AIDS prevention is a leftist issue too.

It's telling that one of the arguments out there -- "Okay, President Lee: we'll eat this beef... just you do it first. Make over-30 month old at-risk beef a part of you diet, and of all your loved ones' diet, for a year, and we'll be willing to follow suit."

Baedol, 

Take it from me, there's no point in trying to have rational discussion: as soon as it starts, mockery kicks in. Too many people are too busy working out their racial/cultural anxieties to actually discuss anything rationally. You'll sooner get comments about your butt than you will a rebuttal, unfortunately.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wangkon, </p>
<p>Well, for one thing, the source of the 94% statistic suggests that Japanese and Koreans differ in incidence of the MM allele frequency. Not sure if it&#8217;s true, whether the sample is large enough, but is it worth arguing with someone who hadn&#8217;t even read the abstract?</p>
<p>And yes, if there are fewer Koreans than Americans, it means fewer Koreans than Americans will get CJD in the long run. That only makes sense, doesn&#8217;t it? I&#8217;m not arguing more Americans have CJD than Korean-Americans or Asian Americans, I&#8217;m arguing nobody knows how many Americans (and Korean-Americans, and so on) will have it in 2020 or 2030. Governments can be painfully short-sighted when it comes to long-term health and safety issues, especially those who want to boost trade big now at any cost. </p>
<p>(If you have any doubt, look at 20th century environmental and science policy across the world.) </p>
<p>But it takes a long time for prionic diseases to show up, so the analogy with British agriculture is worth looking at. Was anyone in Britain in 1990 freaking out about CJD and mad cow disease? In 1985? In 1980? Yet now, the very kind of agriculture you&#8217;re arguing is &#8220;safe&#8221; is illegal in Britain. </p>
<p>(Some people insist on not learning from others&#8217; mistakes. Believe it or not, caution can sometimes be the wisest policy.) </p>
<p>Anyway, Baedol&#8217;s right: it&#8217;s the total lack of restrictions that is disturbing. Hell, in the wake of finding out that they&#8217;ve been sold mandu containing rotten vegetables washed in raw sewage and trash rice in so much of their kimbap, it&#8217;s understandable how sensitive to food issues people are: it&#8217;s not like food safety and quality inspections have a good, or even a passable, track record here. </p>
<p>Which is the funny thing: this isn&#8217;t really a partisan issue; to think of public health and safety that way is a distortion. (Well, unless you&#8217;re so far right-wing that you believe anyone who isn&#8217;t rich enough to safeguard himself and his loved ones is disposable trash, I suppose.) Then again, I suppose AIDS prevention is a leftist issue too.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s telling that one of the arguments out there &#8212; &#8220;Okay, President Lee: we&#8217;ll eat this beef&#8230; just you do it first. Make over-30 month old at-risk beef a part of you diet, and of all your loved ones&#8217; diet, for a year, and we&#8217;ll be willing to follow suit.&#8221;</p>
<p>Baedol, </p>
<p>Take it from me, there&#8217;s no point in trying to have rational discussion: as soon as it starts, mockery kicks in. Too many people are too busy working out their racial/cultural anxieties to actually discuss anything rationally. You&#8217;ll sooner get comments about your butt than you will a rebuttal, unfortunately.</p>
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		<title>By: Joel</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/05/02/fan-death-its-whats-for-dinner/#comment-152598</link>
		<dc:creator>Joel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 13:39:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=6534#comment-152598</guid>
		<description>CJD is not a laughing matter its a slow and undignified way to die. Sure there will be no immediate effects, but CJD can take a decade to kill you, and the mortality rate is 100%.

Maybe there is only a tiny chance of infection, but why risk it?

I'll be shying away from beef.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CJD is not a laughing matter its a slow and undignified way to die. Sure there will be no immediate effects, but CJD can take a decade to kill you, and the mortality rate is 100%.</p>
<p>Maybe there is only a tiny chance of infection, but why risk it?</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll be shying away from beef.</p>
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		<title>By: Linkd</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/05/02/fan-death-its-whats-for-dinner/#comment-152573</link>
		<dc:creator>Linkd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 11:05:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=6534#comment-152573</guid>
		<description>We're studying your habits first. We seem to have lost pixel and vicki. Don't want to scare you off too soon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We&#8217;re studying your habits first. We seem to have lost pixel and vicki. Don&#8217;t want to scare you off too soon.</p>
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		<title>By: Baedol</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/05/02/fan-death-its-whats-for-dinner/#comment-152570</link>
		<dc:creator>Baedol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 10:14:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=6534#comment-152570</guid>
		<description>She, dear, she.
And so far no one has actually rebutted anything I said.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>She, dear, she.<br />
And so far no one has actually rebutted anything I said.</p>
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		<title>By: sf</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/05/02/fan-death-its-whats-for-dinner/#comment-152554</link>
		<dc:creator>sf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 09:00:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=6534#comment-152554</guid>
		<description>Ahh...Baedol may not be going postal now but I'm sure after a few friendly tussles on Marmot's he will be ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ahh&#8230;Baedol may not be going postal now but I&#8217;m sure after a few friendly tussles on Marmot&#8217;s he will be <img src='http://www.rjkoehler.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Linkd</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/05/02/fan-death-its-whats-for-dinner/#comment-152543</link>
		<dc:creator>Linkd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 08:02:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=6534#comment-152543</guid>
		<description>You're going to be a lot of fun to have around here, Baedol, so long as you can take a lot of heat. We usually just blast left wing ideas, not actual people - but now that we have one...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re going to be a lot of fun to have around here, Baedol, so long as you can take a lot of heat. We usually just blast left wing ideas, not actual people - but now that we have one&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Baedol</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/05/02/fan-death-its-whats-for-dinner/#comment-152540</link>
		<dc:creator>Baedol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 07:49:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=6534#comment-152540</guid>
		<description>Just putting this out there, but I'm frankly disturbed that the conversation has turned to probability and mathematics when people's livelihood is at stake here. The fact of the matter is, the government had the means to establish reasonable restrictions on American beef (restrictions that had already been proposed by the government after a good deal of research, such as the Under-30-Month rule and the comprehensive ban on Specified Risk Materials such as the brain and spinal cord) but they did not, despite the various food scares that have been occurring in Korea in the past years. They should have taken into account that Koreans are very sensitive about food safety right now, but they didn't. It's only natural that Koreans flare up like this when Japan next door has an under-20-month rule as well as a ban on all SRM(Specified Risk Material) parts. Add to this whole fiasco the fact that Koreans have been largely unhappy about the policies Lee has been carrying out/proposing so far, and this beef issue is really just the last straw.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just putting this out there, but I&#8217;m frankly disturbed that the conversation has turned to probability and mathematics when people&#8217;s livelihood is at stake here. The fact of the matter is, the government had the means to establish reasonable restrictions on American beef (restrictions that had already been proposed by the government after a good deal of research, such as the Under-30-Month rule and the comprehensive ban on Specified Risk Materials such as the brain and spinal cord) but they did not, despite the various food scares that have been occurring in Korea in the past years. They should have taken into account that Koreans are very sensitive about food safety right now, but they didn&#8217;t. It&#8217;s only natural that Koreans flare up like this when Japan next door has an under-20-month rule as well as a ban on all SRM(Specified Risk Material) parts. Add to this whole fiasco the fact that Koreans have been largely unhappy about the policies Lee has been carrying out/proposing so far, and this beef issue is really just the last straw.</p>
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		<title>By: The Goat</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/05/02/fan-death-its-whats-for-dinner/#comment-152521</link>
		<dc:creator>The Goat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 06:09:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=6534#comment-152521</guid>
		<description>Hey...they are doing it for the kids!

No wait...they are doing it through the kids.

Fucking pinkos.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey&#8230;they are doing it for the kids!</p>
<p>No wait&#8230;they are doing it through the kids.</p>
<p>Fucking pinkos.</p>
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		<title>By: WangKon936</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/05/02/fan-death-its-whats-for-dinner/#comment-152513</link>
		<dc:creator>WangKon936</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 05:36:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=6534#comment-152513</guid>
		<description>No, I get it.  He's saying that there are not enough Koreans in North America to make an accurate sample.  I disagree because you have to weigh the South Korean population into it.  I mean there's only 47 million of them.  Take that to the logical conclusion.  Wouldn't that mean it would be harder for them to get the disease since there are not 300 million people as in North America?

Hell, let's expand it.  This so called "M" gene.  I'm sure Japanese Americans, Mongolian Americans and Chinese Americans with a northern heritage probably have it also, right?  That probably raises the sample to 6 or 7 million.  None of them have mad cow either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, I get it.  He&#8217;s saying that there are not enough Koreans in North America to make an accurate sample.  I disagree because you have to weigh the South Korean population into it.  I mean there&#8217;s only 47 million of them.  Take that to the logical conclusion.  Wouldn&#8217;t that mean it would be harder for them to get the disease since there are not 300 million people as in North America?</p>
<p>Hell, let&#8217;s expand it.  This so called &#8220;M&#8221; gene.  I&#8217;m sure Japanese Americans, Mongolian Americans and Chinese Americans with a northern heritage probably have it also, right?  That probably raises the sample to 6 or 7 million.  None of them have mad cow either.</p>
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