The Hankyoreh talked with Chinese students about Sunday’s ugliness, and found that while most expressed regret about the violence, they also felt they were being unfairly singled out:
Concerning the violent situation that took place during the Olympic torch relay on April 27, Chinese students and other Chinese generally expressed “regret.” But they also protested that there was much provocation, including Koreans grabbing and pulling Chinese flags and people demanding Tibetan independence.
A 30-year-old Chinese student in Jeollabuk-do complained, “Many Chinese were hurt, but this was hardly spotlighted. You should take into consideration our passion as we prepare for the Olympics.”
Another Chinese, who attended the festivities with three friends from Daejeon, noted that the Olympics are the biggest event granted China in the last 100 years, and that he simply came up to Seoul to see this once-in-a-lifetime event. He said it was the first time so many Chinese had gathered together abroad, and compared it to when Koreans got together during the 2002 World Cup. A Chinese student in Busan said he came in a spirit of celebration and desire to protect the Olympics, noting that he was afraid something might happen after seeing the difficulties the torch relay experienced in Britain and France. He then issued my favorite line of the Hankyoreh piece, “The West is quite far from China, and don’t know China well, but Korea is geographically close and the same cultural area, so I thought they’d understand our actions. But they didn’t.” (emphasis mine)
As for the cause of the violence, the Hankyoreh said many responded it was because of the Pride ™ of the Chinese. The student from Jeollabuk-do said, “People usually see the Chinese as powerless and weak, but their pride is strong… In particular, it seems we felt a lot of humiliation watching our flag get pulled and desecrated.” He added, “It also seems there was animosity about Koreans looking down on us, asking Chinese if they have TVs or refrigerators.”
A Chinese-Korean living in Busan said that as the level of education rises in China, young Chinese feel greater pride in their nation. The Olympics are a symbol of that pride, he said, but this was being brought down in many places in the world because of the Tibet issue, and Chinese had grown sensitive to this. A Chinese student in Seoul said he doubted how much Koreans knew about the Tibet issue. He said he was both frustrated and agitated because Koreans speak too easily about a complicated and sensitive ethnic issue.
The Hankyoreh also noted the two-sided view Chinese students had of the Olympics. On one side, all were quite adamant that the Olympics and politics should be kept separate. Yet they also viewed the Olympics as more than just an athletic event; it was an opportunity for China to improve its international prestige. Said one Chinese graduate student in Seoul, “The Olympics are a golden opportunity to show China’s new image. People usually think only of China’s past, but we’ll be able to show our developed and modernized image.” The Chinese-Korean in Busan said the Olympics are a global sporting event, and the Tibet issue is only an internal issue of China. He said that just as Koreans left a strong impression through the World Cup, most Chinese wish the same thing.
Marmot’s Note: Leave a strong impression? I’d say your students certainly did a fine job of that on Sunday.
PS: Please, grow a set. And have a nice flight back to China.
52 Comments
those students are impostors! The represent the CIA, which is actually a front group for Jewish space reptiles. The riots were orchestrated so the U.S. can increase its military forces in Asia and eventually subdue China on the road to a one-world government.
The students talking were reptilian shapeshifters. Not Chinese students. If you don’t believe me, look at their tongues carefully. You’ll see that actually forked like a reptile’s tongue. The reptillians have a hard time maintaining human form, so sometimes they leave little clues.
Don’t be duped by this non-sense! Fight the power! This is another 9/11 all over again. We thought we discredited the undercover CIA group after exposing thier 9/11 fraud, but I guess it didn’t work.
The CIA was behind the Tibetan riots and the Soeul protests. This is the CIA in action.
OK, who stole MME call sign? He is over the top but not quite that over the top.
China’s new image? People think about the past? I’m not surprised he doesn’t get it. For a young fickle kid, the past is 3 years ago.
Robert, seriously, how many of the Chinese are you thinking should be deported? Ballpark figure, 1? 10? 100? 1,000? 10,000? From what you’ve seen of the photos and videos and if you yourself were there?
Just the ones who can be convicted of a crime? Or just the ones who threw plastic bottles? Or anyone who was anywhere near violence, like all the people in the hotel lobby? Or anyone who chanted “Go China!”? Or anyone who violated the terms of their visa by being at the “political” torch relay? Or anyone who is Chinese?
“The West is quite far from China, and don’t know China well, but Korea is geographically close and the same cultural area, so I thought they’d understand our actions. But they didn’t.”
See? LOL. What did I earlier posted? It happens all the time. “We Asians must stick together against the evil whities, but by the way just remember you’re just puny country that nobody cares about unlike our great big China and you have no culture or history. You have Chinese blood. If it wasn’t for us you would have no culture, and we are your big brothers - don’t forget that now”.
Ad nauseum.
TEXTBOOK STRAWMAN CRAP: Robert, seriously, how many of the Chinese are you thinking should be deported? Ballpark figure, 1? 10? 100? 1,000? 10,000? From what you’ve seen of the photos and videos and if you yourself were there?
Simply enforce the laws of the land. That’s all that’s been called for.
“how many of the Chinese are you thinking should be deported?”
Looking at those vids, I’d say about 1000 of them involved in threatning and/or hurting innocent people, should be a fair number.
I’m not surprised since this was the Hankyoreh, but I would love to hear what these Chinese students have to say about the sex slave industry of North Korean women in China. I would also like to hear what they think of the forced repatriation of North Korean refugees to Kim Jong-il’s thugs to either be executed or work in slave labor camps.
How many? Well, I’ll leave that up to the police to decide, but certainly, anyone convicted of assault. And anyone involved in the Seoul Plaza Hotel incident. That’s just for starters.
I might also add that seeing how “they hurt our pride ™” seems to be a legitimate excuse for violence, Korea may wish to rethink its visa regulations at a time when two of three foreign “students” in Korea is Chinese:
http://news.naver.com/main/rea.....0001952876
@#5
Pinch of slippery slope and a dash of either/or fallacy as well. Makes one… nauseating dish.
if you arrest the students, you’ll be letting the reptilian jews win the day.
Fight for the student’s freedom!
MoralMidgetElgin — OK, now you’re just being silly. Have a good one.
“I might also add that seeing how “they hurt our pride ™” seems to be a legitimate excuse for violence, Korea may wish to rethink its visa regulations at a time when two of three foreign “students” in Korea is Chinese”
Marmot, I agree; however, “pride” is the same excuse I’ve heard over the years to justify Korean demonstrations regarding Japanese history texts, USFK incidents, trade agreements, etc. I’m not surprised that some of the Chinese students interviewed may have thought Koreans might related to them on this level, or at least tried to explain their actions in such terms.
Ok, ok, Robert, since you asked nicely, I’ll stop my silliness and only make valid arguments from now on. I might still take a few jabs at Elgy, though.
Anyone who commited an act of violence should be punished. Most of my Chinese friends are outraged by those students who committed violence and they should be dealt with. But I don’t think it had anything to do with hurt pride or nationalism. The torch rally itself was based on nationalism, but I think we can chalk the violence up to a case of mob mentalitly possibly agitated by government or embassy officals (I did witness several “planning circles” were leaders were giving instructions to Chinese students, but I overheard no talk of violence).
You had a situation were Chinese protestors heavily outnumbered their opponents and they felt they had safety in numbers.
The students interviewed are not representative of the Chinese population at large. Furthermore, I smell some post-hoc rationaliztion in their words.
Interesting to hear the Chinese side. I had no idea Chinese were nationalistic, proud, and defensive. Really an eye-opener.
“A Chinese-Korean living in Busan said that as the level of education rises in China, young Chinese feel *greater* pride in their nation.”
Scary.
“Yet they also viewed the Olympics as more than just an athletic event; it was an opportunity for China to improve its international prestige. Said one Chinese graduate student in Seoul, “The Olympics are a golden opportunity to show China’s new image.”
It sure is. It is also an opportunity for you to make an roaring ass of yourselves on a global scale.
Someone posted a comment to an Ohmynews article on the Chinese violence with the title “Comparison of Italian and Korean police chasing Jjangge” (replace jjangge with your favorite ethnic slur for Chinese). Turns out that the two uppermost pictures are from a riot by Chinese in Milan in April 2007, reported to have broken out because of a parking fine (see Guardian, for example; there’s also material in Youtube.) More than 10 policemen were injured, and Chinese flags were waving in Milan as well.
#13,
Yesterday the news was going on and on about American beef. I joked that it must be a slow news day. My wife said, “Well, it’s important to us.” (I was shocked, she usually is a bit more pragmatic than that). I replied, “Honey, if people don’t want it, they can always stop buying it. Nobody is forcing us to eat American beef.”
Yes, Koreans do often cite “pride” for many demonstrations. With one difference — at least the Koreans are doing it in their own damn country. I can think of only one example of Koreans taking the show on the road, and that was to Hong Kong, and while the government DID work — shamefully, IMHO — to get them out of the pen, I don’t recall anywhere near the kind of sympathy from Koreans outside of the usual suspects (leftwing labor groups, Chungmuro, etc.).
#19 - Yes, Korean demonstrators don’t usually pull that shit overseas, aside from Hong Kong (and maybe the prior Cancun WTO ado.) When Korean protesters - including a few of the familiar faces from Gwanghwamun/Seoul Station/Yongsan/Pyeongtaek - went to the United States in the last couple of years, they seemed to be on their best behavior.
The average 20-something chinese male you see on the street is a complete twerp. Your run of the mill 16 year old korean school girl could lay a mean ass-whuppin on said sallow, bad-breathed, pimply skinned individual. Put them in a group greater then 5 persons though and suddenly you have a vicious attack dog. Talk about a zerg mentality. Scary what 1.2 billion of them amount to.
Looking at all these pictures, I can’t over how few Olympic rings I see, and how many yellow stars on red. Chinese people and their government have been repeating for weeks now that the world shouldn’t politicize the Olympics. As I see it, any prayer of making that argument has been shot down by their own hand(s). They could have been waving Olympic flags, but most weren’t.
However, if China is ACTUALLY TRYING confirm everybody’s worst fears about them, they’re doing a great job.
#22 - there’s also the copyright issue. The IOC works hard and prosecutes hard to keep those 5 rings among the most protected tradmarks on earth. If the Chinese just printed up their own Olympics flags without buying them through proper distribution channels and paying proper royalties, well, that would have just proven something else about China.
Wow. Didn’t know that. Comment withdrawn. Thanks.
“Ok, ok, Robert, since you asked nicely, I’ll stop my silliness and only make valid arguments from now on. I might still take a few jabs at Elgy, though.”
This is disgusting insolence and arrogance by a shameless liar and a complete ass.
I guess Elgin is keeping him here to have a representative Chinese asshole to laugh at or look down upon, but I say it is MoralMidget Toss time here at the Hole.
I think MoralMidget is doing a fine job of flaming, steering criticism away from China and its youths and towards himself.
Robert’s right - there need to be deportations. A lot of them. When an embassy stokes up its people to violence against its host population, then argues its host was responsible for the violence, it does two things:
1. It endangers its own population. Those manipulated Chinese kids now have their faces known to everyone in Korea, and it’s payback time; and
2. It shows that the embassy’s mission is not to foster greater cooperation but to spread its country’s system onto foreign soil.
The way to deal with this is to deport Chinese students, depriving the embassy of its tools. It’s harsh, and certainly unfair, but I think logical.
Finally the Koreans got a taste of their own medicine.
Fuck off assholes.
Pulling a Baduk on us?
Just like I don’t think there should be hate crime legislation in the US, there shouldn’t be any special punishment for the protesters. If they are convicted and Korean law says that level of crime merits deportation for a foreign person, then deport them, otherwise don’t.
“But they also protested that there was much provocation,…people demanding Tibetan independence.” Sadly shows that in China (or in this case, anywhere Chinese are) merely having and peacefully voicing particular opposing THOUGHTS merits violence.
So sad that not one of them paused to reflect on their government’s actions regarding North Korean refugees.
They only care about money, national status, and China rising. Why would they care about human rights or democracy or any other silly “Western ideals”?
How would these Chinese students respond to the sight of Korean, or Western protesters, carrying their foreign flags, rioting and beating up Chinese in Tienenman Square? Because that’s what this was akin to. I can’t understand what those must have been going through those infantile heads of theirs. Albert Einstein said that nationalism is like the measles, that all nation states catch it in their youth, but soon outgrow it. China has some growing up to do.
Robert, sorry for being picky about this, but I’ve got it into my head that it is important.
“How many? Well, I’ll leave that up to the police to decide, but certainly, anyone convicted of assault.”
Seems fair enough.
“And anyone involved in the Seoul Plaza Hotel incident.”
What does “involved” mean? Does it mean people there but not convicted of assault? Because otherwise it’s covered by the first category.
“That’s just for starters.”
What does this mean? Are you leaving the number purposefully unbounded? I’m sure you’re aware that not everyone reading your words sees the fine distinctions that you do. You don’t have to go too far from moondoo’s comments at #21 before you have another Jack Cafferty type exaggeration. If people want to debate with the Chinese, they have to be very specific with what they say and not allow it to be misinterpreted.
Is it the Chinese-Korean guy that you’re wishing a nice flight back to China to? For telling a journalist that he thinks Tibet is an internal Chinese matter?
slim #6, I do have the STRAWMAN CRAP down to a fine art form, don’t I?
“Simply enforce the laws of the land. That’s all that’s been called for.”
This seems totally fair. On Monday Robert was calling for mass deportations of the hooligans.
cm #7, I can’t tell whether you are joking or not, but I will assume that you are. Perhaps you have been reading too many Chinese netizen comments translated into Korean.
If I can be allowed to answer my own question, I would say that looking at the tape, there were perhaps 10 or so people in the Plaza lobby actually engaged in physical violence. A lot of them look like they are just pointing very angrily and screetching. Then there are the stone throwers, difficult to tell how many there were of them and that guy with the kung-fu kick on the guy with the bicycle probably shouldn’t put his suitcase too far under his bed. All in all I would say somewhere in the low tens. More than five, less than a hundred.
So, is marching in the street in large numbers and contributing to (if not actively participating in) a mob atmosphere the sort of “political activity” that would constitute a violation of a non-immigrant visa? Just curious, since the issue came up in what seemed to be a much less contentious context not long ago.
That statement would be just as true if we deleted the unnecessary qualifier “with the Chinese.”
I was not there in Seoul, but looking at video footage, I would agree.
(hoitytoity) “Finally the Koreans got a taste of their own medicine. Fuck off assholes.” Guess this loser has nothing better or enlightening to say.
And to the other poster, why don’t you think there should be hate crime legislation in the US? I think it’s necessary given the past & people’s general propensity to act maliciously.
Chinese chat forums in China and Taiwan are blaming the rioting on the violent Korean protesters. Chinese netizens in various internet chat rooms are demanding an apology from Korea for ruining the Olympic atmosphere for China…. any surprise here?
Where do they get such cockiness? From articles like this which claims US is bankrupt and China about to take over the world.
http://www.asianweek.com/2008/.....-be-ready/
“More than five, less than a hundred.”
Deport 5 to 100 for assault.
Deport the rest of the 1000 or so for ugly manners unbecoming of human beings.
#36:
Two words: non sequitur
#36 Asianweek: Introducing the quality of PRChinese journalism to an American audience.
If they were part of the group that cornered the pro-Tibetan protester in the lobby of the Seoul Plaza Hotel, they should be deported, regardless of whether they were close enough to the front of the pile to get a kick or punch in. Put them on the ferry. All of them.
As for “just for starters,” this is because I believe these protests weren’t spontaneous. I believe they were organized by Chinese student groups, with possible support from the Chinese embassy/Chinese intelligence. Should the Korean authorities find this to be the case, the deportation count could — and should — climb dramatically.
Here’s a good article in the Chosun. This is bleak, to be under China’s shadow.
Finlandization of Korea.
http://news.chosun.com/site/da.....01673.html
I don’t know about Korean law, but in most American legal systems, indirect involvement in mob violence would also be a criminal offense.
- Anyone who encouraged or incited violence before or during the event could be convicted of conspiracy.
- Anyone who surged along with the angry mob, tried to strike a blow, but was prevented from striking it only by the presence of other angry mobbers could be convicted of attempt.
- Anyone cheering the mob on could be convicted of solitication to commit assault.
In the UCMJ, most inchoate offenses carry the same maximum punishments as the completed offense.
It seems just to deport those who committed violent acts, or who conspired, attempted, or solicited them. And with its convenient shortages of procedural safeguards, rules of evidence, and competent lawyers, the Korean legal system can easily arrange for that boat trip to China to have a long stopover in Chonan.
Somehow the comment numbers got changed. My “non sequitur” comment was in response to cm’s post with the Asianweek link.
Addendum to above: usually, a conspiracy consists of an agreement to commit an illegal act and an over act in furtherance of it.
“why don’t you think there should be hate crime legislation in the US? I think it’s necessary given the past & people’s general propensity to act maliciously.”
Having special legislation for one group of people can have the opposite effect of its intention. Also, if someone beats the crap out of me, I want that person to receive the same sentencing as someone who beat the crap out of another person with a few gay (or whatever) slurs thrown in. Laws against violence against specific groups already exist–they just happen to apply to everyone else as well.
If you’re using my NoPawi GreaseMonkey script, that’s a side effect. Since comments are displayed inside <li> elements, hiding one of them — which is what the script does, renumbers the following ones…
It’s easy. Stay home. Shut up.
How come Pawi posts still appear?
This all reminds me of when I put food down for my dogs.
They use to climb all over each other worried that they would be left out. Well now they realize there is no need to bark and growl. Took a couple weeks.
Some people are not long out of the trees. What to do? Scream and holler.
Concert crowds. How much of a coward could you be?
The horror of it all.
Repent and you shall be free:
A court rejected the application Friday for an arrest warrant for a Chinese student who was accused of assaulting a Korean man.
The decision was made one day after police detained him for kicking and hitting a 49-year-old Korean protester with a Chinese national flag, and hurling concrete tiles in a clash between Chinese students and anti-Chinese protestors during the Olympic torch relay in Seoul last Sunday.
The court said it decided against issuing the arrest warrant, as he was repentant over his misdeeds. In addition, his chances of fleeing the country or destroying evidence were slim as he lives in a campus dormitory.
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/ww.....23548.html
As a Jewish Canadian living abroad, I had hoped that the hate-speach laws in Canada would be enough to deport all anti-Tibetan Chinese, or all the payroll-funded Chinese Olympic promoters. Often the Chinese are motivated by racist propaganda they recieve in their dark, factory-like schools and spew their nonsense out of their foul mouths at any chance they get.