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	<title>Comments on: Oh, Those Wacky Chinese Demonstrators</title>
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	<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/04/28/oh-those-wacky-chinese-demonstrators/</link>
	<description>Korea... in Blog Format</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jul 2008 12:58:05 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Global Voices Online &#187; Korea: Chinese students fear safety after torch relay violence</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/04/28/oh-those-wacky-chinese-demonstrators/#comment-152130</link>
		<dc:creator>Global Voices Online &#187; Korea: Chinese students fear safety after torch relay violence</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 04:59:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/04/28/oh-those-wacky-chinese-demonstrators/#comment-152130</guid>
		<description>[...] for the most part just seeing what they want to see in how their generation and China is now being perceived abroad, and not only on [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] for the most part just seeing what they want to see in how their generation and China is now being perceived abroad, and not only on [...]</p>
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		<title>By: SeoulPodcast &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Episode 6 - Do Something (Steve Ward)</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/04/28/oh-those-wacky-chinese-demonstrators/#comment-151701</link>
		<dc:creator>SeoulPodcast &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Episode 6 - Do Something (Steve Ward)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 May 2008 08:38:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/04/28/oh-those-wacky-chinese-demonstrators/#comment-151701</guid>
		<description>[...] Oh, Those Wacky Chinese Demonstrators  Good rundown of everything [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Oh, Those Wacky Chinese Demonstrators  Good rundown of everything [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Janus</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/04/28/oh-those-wacky-chinese-demonstrators/#comment-150806</link>
		<dc:creator>Janus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 02:26:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/04/28/oh-those-wacky-chinese-demonstrators/#comment-150806</guid>
		<description>Hopefully this might serve as a wake-up call to the Koreans who want to cozy up to China to see where China really thinks Korea belongs--under the thumb of the Middle Kingdom.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hopefully this might serve as a wake-up call to the Koreans who want to cozy up to China to see where China really thinks Korea belongs&#8211;under the thumb of the Middle Kingdom.</p>
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		<title>By: roboseyo</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/04/28/oh-those-wacky-chinese-demonstrators/#comment-150455</link>
		<dc:creator>roboseyo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 15:08:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/04/28/oh-those-wacky-chinese-demonstrators/#comment-150455</guid>
		<description>John: I should have worded it more carefully, adding the qualifier "a sport popular in their country" -- that is, Hockey in Canada, Baseball in Japan, Soccer in Korea, Baseball or Basketball in the US (because there's no "Team USA" in American football: US is pretty much the only country that plays it).  I could add Cricket, Rugby and a few others, but my point still stands.  Nationalism is (too often) ugly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John: I should have worded it more carefully, adding the qualifier &#8220;a sport popular in their country&#8221; &#8212; that is, Hockey in Canada, Baseball in Japan, Soccer in Korea, Baseball or Basketball in the US (because there&#8217;s no &#8220;Team USA&#8221; in American football: US is pretty much the only country that plays it).  I could add Cricket, Rugby and a few others, but my point still stands.  Nationalism is (too often) ugly.</p>
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		<title>By: John from Daejeon</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/04/28/oh-those-wacky-chinese-demonstrators/#comment-150450</link>
		<dc:creator>John from Daejeon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 14:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/04/28/oh-those-wacky-chinese-demonstrators/#comment-150450</guid>
		<description>#19.  Actually, the nationalism in American sports is totally different from the rest of the world.  The top five sports in the United States based on viewing numbers (ratings) are all really "national" sports: 1. pro football, 2. college football, 3. baseball (the couple of teams in Canada aren't really seen as part of another country), 4. pro basketball, and 5. Nascar.  The international sport of soccer does not exist as such in the U.S., as its', and the NHL's, ratings are now duking it out with women's softball, bass fishing, and poker in the niche sport trenches.  And, technically, based on both attendance and participants, high school football is easily the the number one sport in the United States, it just doesn't happen to be televised.

Also, if you did manage to get 100 average Americans in a room, fewer than 5 would care about a pro hockey or soccer game, which is probably the amount that would care about one against another country.  This past year's Superbowl was seen by 97.5 million Americans or 32.5% of the population (of over 300 million legal residents).  So, out of your group of 100 U.S. patrons, 67 wouldn't even care to watch America's biggest sporting event of the year, much less any other type of sporting event against a different country.  It's great to have so many sports choices, as opposed to those in other countries, but the audiences are fragmenting more and more over time.  

That isn't to say that American fanatics aren't "noisy, arrogant, overbearing and obnoxious" about our sports, but most just don't care about sports (or much else for that matter) that happen outside our borders.  One just has to look at whenever the Mexican soccer team plays the U.S. team in the U.S.  There are more fans in the stands rooting for Mexico than the supposed "home" team.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#19.  Actually, the nationalism in American sports is totally different from the rest of the world.  The top five sports in the United States based on viewing numbers (ratings) are all really &#8220;national&#8221; sports: 1. pro football, 2. college football, 3. baseball (the couple of teams in Canada aren&#8217;t really seen as part of another country), 4. pro basketball, and 5. Nascar.  The international sport of soccer does not exist as such in the U.S., as its&#8217;, and the NHL&#8217;s, ratings are now duking it out with women&#8217;s softball, bass fishing, and poker in the niche sport trenches.  And, technically, based on both attendance and participants, high school football is easily the the number one sport in the United States, it just doesn&#8217;t happen to be televised.</p>
<p>Also, if you did manage to get 100 average Americans in a room, fewer than 5 would care about a pro hockey or soccer game, which is probably the amount that would care about one against another country.  This past year&#8217;s Superbowl was seen by 97.5 million Americans or 32.5% of the population (of over 300 million legal residents).  So, out of your group of 100 U.S. patrons, 67 wouldn&#8217;t even care to watch America&#8217;s biggest sporting event of the year, much less any other type of sporting event against a different country.  It&#8217;s great to have so many sports choices, as opposed to those in other countries, but the audiences are fragmenting more and more over time.  </p>
<p>That isn&#8217;t to say that American fanatics aren&#8217;t &#8220;noisy, arrogant, overbearing and obnoxious&#8221; about our sports, but most just don&#8217;t care about sports (or much else for that matter) that happen outside our borders.  One just has to look at whenever the Mexican soccer team plays the U.S. team in the U.S.  There are more fans in the stands rooting for Mexico than the supposed &#8220;home&#8221; team.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/04/28/oh-those-wacky-chinese-demonstrators/#comment-150449</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 14:23:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/04/28/oh-those-wacky-chinese-demonstrators/#comment-150449</guid>
		<description>This hyper nationalism has gotten almost zero coverage in the states. I watch a LOT of news and I saw nothing on TV and one article the other day in the NYT.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This hyper nationalism has gotten almost zero coverage in the states. I watch a LOT of news and I saw nothing on TV and one article the other day in the NYT.</p>
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		<title>By: seouldout</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/04/28/oh-those-wacky-chinese-demonstrators/#comment-150438</link>
		<dc:creator>seouldout</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 13:41:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/04/28/oh-those-wacky-chinese-demonstrators/#comment-150438</guid>
		<description>This horse and pony show has distracted much of Korea from what is really important. 
&lt;a href="http://www.time.com/time/specials/2007/article/0,28804,1725112_1726934_1726935,00.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;Rain has fallen to #2&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This horse and pony show has distracted much of Korea from what is really important.<br />
<a href="http://www.time.com/time/specials/2007/article/0,28804,1725112_1726934_1726935,00.html" rel="nofollow">Rain has fallen to #2</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Schizodoxe &#124; le blog des mutations : sciences, technologie, robotique, culture, video, news, infos, analyses...</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/04/28/oh-those-wacky-chinese-demonstrators/#comment-150427</link>
		<dc:creator>Schizodoxe &#124; le blog des mutations : sciences, technologie, robotique, culture, video, news, infos, analyses...</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 12:25:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/04/28/oh-those-wacky-chinese-demonstrators/#comment-150427</guid>
		<description>[...] Sources&#160;: ROK Drop et Free Korea. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Sources&nbsp;: ROK Drop et Free Korea. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: pawikirogi</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/04/28/oh-those-wacky-chinese-demonstrators/#comment-150402</link>
		<dc:creator>pawikirogi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 10:17:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/04/28/oh-those-wacky-chinese-demonstrators/#comment-150402</guid>
		<description>'but Koreans don’t connect the dots in abstract ways very much when it comes to identifying..'

racist clap trap tolerated by racist expats who whine all day about racism.

'pawi's race baiting...' sonagi

'zip, silence, no words, not even a whisper, shhhhhhhhhh.' sonagi to orank's racist filth</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;but Koreans don’t connect the dots in abstract ways very much when it comes to identifying..&#8217;</p>
<p>racist clap trap tolerated by racist expats who whine all day about racism.</p>
<p>&#8216;pawi&#8217;s race baiting&#8230;&#8217; sonagi</p>
<p>&#8216;zip, silence, no words, not even a whisper, shhhhhhhhhh.&#8217; sonagi to orank&#8217;s racist filth</p>
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		<title>By: oranckay</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/04/28/oh-those-wacky-chinese-demonstrators/#comment-150390</link>
		<dc:creator>oranckay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 08:49:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/04/28/oh-those-wacky-chinese-demonstrators/#comment-150390</guid>
		<description>I'm just really glad this happened. For two reasons:

(1) The irony. During the dictatorship years, even average Koreans, especially overseas Koreans, would call pro-democracy, anti-torture, and other such protests in front of Korean diplomatic missions "anti-Korean." 

(2) For Koreans to really dislike anyone, you have to have a personal and direct reason. This is true for any people group, but Koreans don't connect the dots in abstract ways very much when it comes to identifying who the nasty mofos are when they're that just as a matter of principle.  Which is why you occasionally (less frequently in the last decaed it seems) see Nazi theme bars in Korea, which while they last are patronized by people who equate Japanese colonialism with Nazism in a very "same=same" kinda way. 

Every once in a while you get a taste of what China can be like, for example if a Korean student in Beijing gets beat up at a football game, but frankly I think there are a lot of Korean kids running around these days who have given thought to Goguryeo only because China brought it to their attention, even though they might think it was founded by Park Chung-hee. 

What I like about the riot that it was simultaneously highly symbolic - which is of course that ends up _mattering_ most - and very tangible in the sense that it was up close and personal for Korean society to see and experience, instead of being a foreign news report or a story quoting ancient history experts telling people how incensed they should be about something they can't actually see happening (the Goguryeo swipe).

Post-war South Korean society has still had so little direct experience with China. IMHO anything that adds a little perspective is helpful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m just really glad this happened. For two reasons:</p>
<p>(1) The irony. During the dictatorship years, even average Koreans, especially overseas Koreans, would call pro-democracy, anti-torture, and other such protests in front of Korean diplomatic missions &#8220;anti-Korean.&#8221; </p>
<p>(2) For Koreans to really dislike anyone, you have to have a personal and direct reason. This is true for any people group, but Koreans don&#8217;t connect the dots in abstract ways very much when it comes to identifying who the nasty mofos are when they&#8217;re that just as a matter of principle.  Which is why you occasionally (less frequently in the last decaed it seems) see Nazi theme bars in Korea, which while they last are patronized by people who equate Japanese colonialism with Nazism in a very &#8220;same=same&#8221; kinda way. </p>
<p>Every once in a while you get a taste of what China can be like, for example if a Korean student in Beijing gets beat up at a football game, but frankly I think there are a lot of Korean kids running around these days who have given thought to Goguryeo only because China brought it to their attention, even though they might think it was founded by Park Chung-hee. </p>
<p>What I like about the riot that it was simultaneously highly symbolic - which is of course that ends up _mattering_ most - and very tangible in the sense that it was up close and personal for Korean society to see and experience, instead of being a foreign news report or a story quoting ancient history experts telling people how incensed they should be about something they can&#8217;t actually see happening (the Goguryeo swipe).</p>
<p>Post-war South Korean society has still had so little direct experience with China. IMHO anything that adds a little perspective is helpful.</p>
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