More stuff along the same lines of what Sonagi and Elgin posted — our Chinese friends got a bit rough yesterday, scaring and otherwise pissing off a good many Koreans.
First, there were the Chinese throwing water bottles, sticks and stones at activists from a North Korean refugee rights group at Olympic Park. One reporter working for a major Korean paper was injured when he was hit in the head with a stone.
Then there were the five or six American and Canadian pro-Tibet protesters that got assaulted with water bottles and the like in front of the Deoksugung Palace.
Then there was the riot in front of the Plaza Hotel when pro-Tibet and pro-Taiwan protesters got attacked by Chinese demonstrators.
This led many resident Tibetans — who’d come out to protest China’s suppression of Tibetan protests in China — and Koreans who’d come out to watch the Olympic torch to run for cover.
One Korean who watched it all said, “I don’t understand how [the Chinese] could use group violence in someone else’s country just because there are people who oppose the holding of the Olympics in their country.”
The police response to the Chinese ruffians was also called into question. One Korean said police could have predicted what would happen after seeing how ethnic Chinese demonstrators behaved in Japan and elsewhere, but that the Korean government — fearing diplomatic problems with China — failed to nip the problem in the bud early.
Police did, in fact, deploy only 9,300 personnel along the route, much less than the 14,000 cops they deployed during last month’s protests against rising university tuitions. A police official said — sit down for this — that they thought the Chinese embassy would be able to control the Chinese demonstrators (emphasis mine), but it didn’t turn out that way. The official added that legal action would be taken against the Chinese they arrested following investigations.
UPDATE: Sorry, I just can’t get over that police official. “We thought the Chinese embassy would be able to control the Chinese demonstrators.” Quick, somebody call Internal Affairs and check the evidence room — I’m willing to bet some of the gear seized from the English teachers this weekend is missing.
UPDATE 2: I just watched the videos in the Chosun Ilbo article linked below. Fuck me. I’m going to be very disappointed when mass deportations are not handed out for this. Seriously. Korea has enough brownshirts posing as university students; it doesn’t need China’s, too. Kick ‘em out. Especially the ones caught attacking cops. If you’re a foreigner and you attack cops in broad daylight in the middle of the capital, you should consider yourself lucky if the only thing that happens to you is a deportation. Put them on the next ferry to China and be done with it.
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43 Comments
This damned idiot and the others that allowed these thugs to run amok should be fired for not doing their job. Even I knew this would happen and I do not work for the police.
Not to excuse the Chinese protestors in any way, but this quote is ridiculous. Let’s re-write it this way:
I don’t understand how [the Koreans] could use group violence in someone else’s country just because there are people who [want to attend a meeting of the World Trade Organization in Hong Kong to discuss opening markets].
Koreans may be the least self-aware people in the world. The Chinese know they can act this way because (i) in Korea, violent protest is not just tolerated, but encouraged; and (ii) the Koreans, although disdainful of the Chinese, are desperately afraid to upset China. Koreans who think this is the end of China’s assertiveness ought to think again, and invest in a set of kneepads.
Brendon, those rioting Koreans in Hong Kong were roundly condemned by Koreans. Can we say the same with the Chinese (both overseas and inside China)?
Again, I’m not excusing the Chinese in any way. I simply hope that the spectacle of Chinese run riot in the Plaza Hotel prompts some questioning whether Korea can afford to continue to tolerate violent public protest from any group. They were going to beat that man to death in the lobby of a four-star hotel!
Brendon do you know if it was even legal for these Chinese expats to protest the way they did? The way I understood it is that a student or working visa holder in Korea could not take part in political activity. These protests all looked very political to me.
Those propaganda-infused robots should be jailed or deported posthaste. And yes, a little introspection by local citizens wouldn’t hurt as well.
They looked real political to me too. Except that Chinese conflate politics and nation to a scary degree; they think they’re defending the honor of their race.
One photo I saw had a real arrogant young shit throwing a bottle of water or something else, then being accosted by a policeman. The arrogant defiance on the kid’s face makes me hope he’s here on a free scholarship.
Do you know the term “의기양양”, cm?
That’s how I feel when I see Chinese treat Korea/Koreans like that.
Who is Koreans’ most hated nation again?
Some really brainwashed-type stuff in the Youtube comments of the beating in the hotel.
You gotta look out when groups start describing other groups with terms like ‘dirty ; disgusting ; cockroaches…’ etc. Genocide has always been preceded by widespread use of such language to pre-justify the hoped-for carnage.
Another good reason to keep the American soldiers here in Asia. The Asians at the top of the food chain know it, too.
Nationalis kills. Perhaps I expect too much from this imperfect world.
I’d say there’s a big difference between a handful of left-wing labor activists not widely respected even in Korea making an embarrassment of themselves in Hong Kong and large bands of hyper-nationalistic Chinese residents (albeit mostly students) going around assaulting those who disagree with them with — as many people suspect — the support of the Chinese embassy.
Looks like the Foreign Ministry hasn’t wasted any time in grabbing socks:
http://english.yonhapnews.co.k.....0315F.HTML
You know how Imperial Japan felt that anything it did in East Asia was an internal matter - and anyone who objected was a traitor to the non-white races? (Another way of putting this is that they Japanese felt that the non-white races owed their allegiance to Japan). Currently, the Chinese feel that way, too (with the allegiance owed being transferred to China), with regard to anything it does in the region. I expect fireworks once the Chinese military gets up to snuff.
One thing everyone needs to remember - especially China’s neighbors - is that China did not get to be the biggest country in Asia without displacing a lot of people from their native lands. Chinese dynasties have always expanded their territory in times of military strength. In other words, Japan played what has traditionally been China’s role for a 50-year period, from 1895 onwards. China has played this role for thousands of years. Maybe the current one will be the exception, but it has already conquered Tibet. And when Chinese get worked up about the massacre at Nanking, it’s not the first or the second massacre at Nanking they’re worked up about (both of which were carried out by Chinese armies).
S Korea expressed regret? Is that like an apology? Were they sorry that they didn’t offer up any more sacrificial victims to be the object of Chinese mob violence?
I seem to get the feeling that the ROK — and some posters on blogs — want to paint the rioters as “thugs” specially imported from China as troublemakers. This way they can be pigeon-holed as “outside agitators.” I don’t think so. I think those were young Korean-Chinese. I think there are two factors at work here: (1) Ethnic pride of Korean-Chinese in their motherland; and (2) Korean-Chinese reaction to years of being spurned by the ROK for generations.
First, there exists a trait of the Chinese people that even after generations of being in America, Singapore, Hong Kong, Paris or South Africa, they are still in their hearts Chinese and have great pride in being Chinese. These young Korean-Chinese seen in the videos, in my opinion, feel the same as how the Korean-Americans — off-spring of the first wave in the 1890s — felt when the Olympics was held in Korea in 1988. These Korean-Americans all carried ROK flags and wore ROK flag lapel pins and in a sense become more Korean than the Koreans. That the young Korean-Chinese would turn out in droves to protest the activists in defense of their motherland seems to me understandable. It doesn’t mean that they would want to live in China — it is just that they feel a great sense of pride and unity in being Chinese. The same outpouring was seen in Australia and other nations where the Chinese immigrants have not been fully assimilated. It is NOT an issue of being anti-Tibet or anti-North Korean refugee, but simply that these young Korean-Chinese people see others attacking their homeland and they feel a need to rise up to protect it. Surprisingly, if there were Koreans doing the same thing, they would be called nationalists — but because young Korean-Chinese are doing it, they are called thugs.
Second factor at work here deals with how the ethnic Chinese have been treated in Korea for generations. Doesn’t the ROK have any clue as to how the Chinese people who have lived in Korea for generations feel?. They were born in Korea, have attended Korean schools, speak Korean and for all intents and purposes are Korean — except that they are denied Korean citizenship. Though in one sense, they are Korean in values and thinking, they also do not feel rooted to Korea because Korea has refused to allow them to make Korea their homeland. Though they feel a love for Korea, they also feel pride in the accomplishments of their motherland. The Chinese of Korea have been spurned for generations — and now with China’s great advances, they have a sense of ethnic pride. Are the Koreans so thick-headed that they did not see the Chinese flee Korea for other countries in droves starting in the early 1980s when chances to emigrate to the US and Australia opened for them? After Korea switched its allegiance to China versus Taiwan, the emigration increased. The Chinatowns of the large cities have died — though the governments are trying to resurrect them (with Korean residents) to give the image that they are still international cities. I believe, the Korean-Chinese in Korea are angry about their treatment by the ROK, but will remain silent because the alternative is their being left as people without a country. I believe this protest was a one-time shot at raising their voices — and then they will fade into the background again.
@#15
I thought these guys were the “New Red Guards” consisting mostly of international students from China. The Chinese-Korean (which would be more accurate than Korean-Chinese… Korean-Chinese would be an ethic Korean with Chinese citizenship) population, I believe, wasn’t the driving force of this madness.
Madness?
THIS IS SPA- I’ll stop.
http://blogfile.paran.com/BLOG.....928_11.jpg
Why didn’t the cops beat this guy down? Seriously. A those truncheons would smack that look right off of his face
Kalani: I very much doubt that, I wouldn’t think that Korean-born Chinese would be numerous or organized enough to do the sort of things we’ve seen. I’m sure that the fast majority of the pro-Chinese demonstrators are students studying abroad.
SK expressed “regret,” which is a great word, like “interesting,” the word I use for people I don’t actually like, when I don’t want to stir up a defensive reaction.
Expressing regret gently huffs, “Oh dear” like Winnie the Pooh, without doing anything risky like pointing blame and pissing off China, or taking blame and losing face.
Basically, China boosters around City Hall did the same thing the Chinese government and media has done in response to criticism: repeat the party line, louder. Counterattack instead of listening to criticism or allowing dissent. (wanna bet another Spielberg movie EVER makes it into china?) Intimidate and silence dissent with sheer numbers, and volume, without saying anything new.
Fact is, either the Beijing Olympics are a success that gives the Chinese propaganda machine and people an excuse to puff and strut, or it’s a gong-show, which gives the Chinese propaganda machine a chance to stir up feelings of nationalist resentment and outrage — they win either way, now.
10: I agree. Somehow playing the nationalism card, in every country I’ve been to, throws a switch that suspends ordinary judgment and reasonable/polite/moral behaviour. Chinese, Koreans, Japanese, Canadians, and Americans (the main countries I’ve traveled to) are all nice people individually, but throw a hundred of any in a room with a box of flags and some kegs of alcohol, put on a telecast of their national team playing another country in a popular sport (hockey, baseball, soccer/football — whatever) and suddenly any of them will become noisy, arrogant, overbearing and obnoxious.
I’m sure it’s the same around the world, and every time I see it, it’s ugly.
Some were Chinese students and some were Chinese-Koreans. China’s CCTV news did a short feature that included Chinese university students preparing flags to be used in the demonstrations and an interview with a middle-aged huaqiao who solicited support from the city of Weihai in Shandong Province for the torch relay.
CCTV’s coverage of the torch relay in Seoul seems to be completely ignoring the violent demonstrations, proclaiming that the torch received a warm welcome from Koreans and Chinese alike.
Kalani — most of the protesters were reportedly exchange students. In fact, it seems the hwagyo weren’t very much involved at all, and frankly, I’d be very surprised if they were.
The other thing to remember is that while the hwagyo themselves share cultural connections to the mainland, especially Shandong, hwagyo organizations are closely tied to the Republic of China (a.k.a. Taiwan).
@#22
Does that hold true for most/all Chinese-[insert nation] communities, or just Chinese-Koreans?
True, Robert, but ROC-passport holding huaqiao are Chinese and will rally to the mainland’s defense in conflicts with non-Chinese. Most of the flag-wavers looked young, so they probably were students.
Anyone want to take a shot to debunk this Kalani’s BS?
“except that they are denied Korean citizenship.”
#23 - Traditionally most overseas Chinese in Australia, and I’m sure it’s a similar situation for the States and other countries, came from southern China, in particular Guangdong province. The first wave of Chinese migrants to Australia came during the Gold Rush and largely came from Guangdong province.
In Australia, it’s only a fairly recent phenonmena of migrants from northern China. Many people also arrived from Hong Kong during the early 90s fearing the HK transition of power. As a result, in Australia despite widespread recent migration from northern China there’s still significantly more native Cantonese speakers as opposed to native Mandarin speakers. Also, many Chinese-Australians were born in Taiwan or other SE Asian nations such as Singapore, Malaysia and Indonesia.
Most of my friends of Chinese descent back home are at least second or third-generation and I seriously doubt are particularly fond of the CCP.
I have no doubts the Chinese provocateurs in Seoul, Canberra and other centres were mostly Chinese students of PRC citizenship, and with strong family, cultural, economic and political links to China.
See no violent demonstrations, hear no violent demonstrators:
http://www.cctv.com/video/worl.....28_3.shtml
Ah, the wonderful world of
DisneyCCTV.@#25:
That used to be true. I know that the Korean government has relaxed its regulations and a growing number of ethnic Chinese have naturalized as Korean citizens. I do not know the specific requirements. In China, one of my students had a huaqiao father and Korean mother. At that time, citizenship was through the father only, so he held an ROK passport. When I asked him if he had considered taking ROK citizenship, he answered that he preferred being an overseas Chinese and would not explain why. As he had spent a few years in China, he was culturally different from the Korean students and while friendly with them, he was not fully accepted. Some of them even mistakenly called him a joseonjok, which made him angry. He seemed more at home with his Chinese friends. A Chinese-Korean raised in Korea and educated in Korean schools obviously wouldn’t have the same identity issues.
perhaps it’s not relevant to the issue at hand, but how’s that plan for chinatown coming along? was it for seoul? incheon? both?
where are all the leftist loon who are anti-american? if there’s any group in korea that plays the nationalism card, it’s them. i’m just curious to know what their reaction is to the chinese students.
One terms of the E-2 (English teaching) Visa is that you are barred from being involved in political protests and I’m sure the same applies for student visas, which I presume a large proportion of the Chinese protesters hold.
The South Korean Government should be (and hopefully are) actively reviewing footage of agitators and those who assaulted others, find them, revoke their Visas and send them back to China. Though, I fear the Government here are going to take a fairly soft stance for fear or upset their big neighbour.
I look forward to my adjumma class tomorrow where this will be one of the topics discussed. I’ll be interested to hear their thoughts on the relay and the actions of some of the Chinese protesters.
Can’t believe Korean police just stood there do nothing but get beat up…were there any police-line in Olympic park or at the plaza? where were those police riot squads?
I see all those nasty comments against Chinese, Chinese students on Naver same time wonder how would Chinese feel about it, may be they are so proud of their sons and daughters for these incidents.
“We thought the Chinese embassy would be able to control the Chinese demonstrators.”
Maybe this was meant to be sarcastic.
In any case, my wife told me her Chinese students didn’t show up to class today. I wonder why.
PS. I don’t see why anyone could be surprised or shocked by the pictures. Naive young people being useful idiots…nothing new there. This week it’s Chinese students in South Korea, next week it will someone else.
Welcome to the Chinese century, folks. And it’s just getting warmed up!
#30,
Can’t believe they just stood there? Tell me this: How many times has the government denied a visa to the Dalai Lama?
@33
I know..
But these incidents could be avoided if the “order” was given. I am upset because of that. And more upset on Korean gov. just saying “regret” to the Chinese gov.
I just want to let you know that there are 2 million ethnic Korean in China, and 300 thousands of North Korean refugee in China. Another riot will create an explosion and more riot in Korea and in China. These few months Nationalism is very strong. What more interesting thing is that we didn’t even complain how the barbaric Korean riot in Hong Kong. Few police office were injured and we didnt even complain. Korea is nothing but a western lap dog. Bark yes yes when western say do this and that.
what barbaric korean riot in hong kong?
I’m just really glad this happened. For two reasons:
(1) The irony. During the dictatorship years, even average Koreans, especially overseas Koreans, would call pro-democracy, anti-torture, and other such protests in front of Korean diplomatic missions “anti-Korean.”
(2) For Koreans to really dislike anyone, you have to have a personal and direct reason. This is true for any people group, but Koreans don’t connect the dots in abstract ways very much when it comes to identifying who the nasty mofos are when they’re that just as a matter of principle. Which is why you occasionally (less frequently in the last decaed it seems) see Nazi theme bars in Korea, which while they last are patronized by people who equate Japanese colonialism with Nazism in a very “same=same” kinda way.
Every once in a while you get a taste of what China can be like, for example if a Korean student in Beijing gets beat up at a football game, but frankly I think there are a lot of Korean kids running around these days who have given thought to Goguryeo only because China brought it to their attention, even though they might think it was founded by Park Chung-hee.
What I like about the riot that it was simultaneously highly symbolic - which is of course that ends up _mattering_ most - and very tangible in the sense that it was up close and personal for Korean society to see and experience, instead of being a foreign news report or a story quoting ancient history experts telling people how incensed they should be about something they can’t actually see happening (the Goguryeo swipe).
Post-war South Korean society has still had so little direct experience with China. IMHO anything that adds a little perspective is helpful.
‘but Koreans don’t connect the dots in abstract ways very much when it comes to identifying..’
racist clap trap tolerated by racist expats who whine all day about racism.
‘pawi’s race baiting…’ sonagi
‘zip, silence, no words, not even a whisper, shhhhhhhhhh.’ sonagi to orank’s racist filth
This horse and pony show has distracted much of Korea from what is really important.
Rain has fallen to #2.
This hyper nationalism has gotten almost zero coverage in the states. I watch a LOT of news and I saw nothing on TV and one article the other day in the NYT.
#19. Actually, the nationalism in American sports is totally different from the rest of the world. The top five sports in the United States based on viewing numbers (ratings) are all really “national” sports: 1. pro football, 2. college football, 3. baseball (the couple of teams in Canada aren’t really seen as part of another country), 4. pro basketball, and 5. Nascar. The international sport of soccer does not exist as such in the U.S., as its’, and the NHL’s, ratings are now duking it out with women’s softball, bass fishing, and poker in the niche sport trenches. And, technically, based on both attendance and participants, high school football is easily the the number one sport in the United States, it just doesn’t happen to be televised.
Also, if you did manage to get 100 average Americans in a room, fewer than 5 would care about a pro hockey or soccer game, which is probably the amount that would care about one against another country. This past year’s Superbowl was seen by 97.5 million Americans or 32.5% of the population (of over 300 million legal residents). So, out of your group of 100 U.S. patrons, 67 wouldn’t even care to watch America’s biggest sporting event of the year, much less any other type of sporting event against a different country. It’s great to have so many sports choices, as opposed to those in other countries, but the audiences are fragmenting more and more over time.
That isn’t to say that American fanatics aren’t “noisy, arrogant, overbearing and obnoxious” about our sports, but most just don’t care about sports (or much else for that matter) that happen outside our borders. One just has to look at whenever the Mexican soccer team plays the U.S. team in the U.S. There are more fans in the stands rooting for Mexico than the supposed “home” team.
John: I should have worded it more carefully, adding the qualifier “a sport popular in their country” — that is, Hockey in Canada, Baseball in Japan, Soccer in Korea, Baseball or Basketball in the US (because there’s no “Team USA” in American football: US is pretty much the only country that plays it). I could add Cricket, Rugby and a few others, but my point still stands. Nationalism is (too often) ugly.
Hopefully this might serve as a wake-up call to the Koreans who want to cozy up to China to see where China really thinks Korea belongs–under the thumb of the Middle Kingdom.
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